Author Topic: WarShip of the Week: Defender  (Read 57496 times)

DarthRads

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #150 on: 03 June 2014, 17:29:59 »
Or it could be that each bay can only hold a single ship ever, and each of those bays can handle ships up to 20 kilotons, kinda like vehicle bays.


This is the more likely option

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #151 on: 03 June 2014, 20:58:37 »
Hmm question is what would you carry in a 20K bay if spheroid drop ships are a no go? Seems a bit excessive for a one ship bay to me.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #152 on: 03 June 2014, 21:12:55 »
If a Defender's DropShuttle bay is restricted to say Aerodynes, those Aerodynes need to be under 5k limit.

You could have such designs like Gazelle for an example, Aerodyne and 2,900 tons.   Comissioned in 2531, this vessel could have utilized the bay if DS Bay is restricted like that.  At 4,500 tons, an Achilles Class is also a Aerodyne dropper  could use a Defender's bay.  Its old enough to be around as well for the ship during its long years of service, in and out of mothball yards.

Hopefully, some more primitive dropships that fit in the these 1st generation WarShip's and Primitive JumpShip bays will show up in up and coming Primitive editions of XTRO series.
« Last Edit: 04 June 2014, 07:13:04 by Wrangler »
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Dragon Cat

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #153 on: 03 June 2014, 21:41:37 »


Hopefully, some more primitive dropships that fit in the these 1st generation WarShip's and Primitive JumpShip bays will show up in up and coming Primitive editions of XTRO series.

It would make a perfect place for them
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #154 on: 03 June 2014, 22:28:36 »
Jellico stated in his article (bold text mine):

The other big compromise is the lack of docking collars. It was the 24th Century. Who knew what would be successful? So the Defender got four huge DropShuttle Bays instead of docking collars. Given that they can swallow anything short of a Mammoth there is not much to complain about. But the four bays could have been six collars. A typically big cargo bay and 20 Small Craft bays (a Fed Suns Wing) round out the internal capacity. AA is meh with the ever popular AC5 getting a workout. Point defence is very solid, especially aft.

So this does seem to imply that these bays could conceivably handle quite large DropShips that hadn't yet been built when the Defender first slipped its moorings--including a Vengeance.  >:D

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #155 on: 03 June 2014, 22:38:18 »
Uh, I don't think that Jellico's assumption there is supported in any way by the rules except in the tonnage of the bay itself.  It's entirely possible that dropships are unable to use dropshuttle bays period if TBTP decide to go that direciton.

Basically don't put money down on something a fan article writer said. :P
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gyedid

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #156 on: 04 June 2014, 01:07:33 »
Uh, I don't think that Jellico's assumption there is supported in any way by the rules except in the tonnage of the bay itself.  It's entirely possible that dropships are unable to use dropshuttle bays period if TBTP decide to go that direciton.

Basically don't put money down on something a fan article writer said. :P

Well, I was hoping Jellico had some advance knowledge of those rules, otherwise he wouldn't have written what he did.

In any case, even if the Defender can accommodate sizeable "modern" DropShips in its bays, there's still the question of what to do with a couple of badly obsolete WarShips that probably don't fit with the logistical base of the rest of the fleet.  Yes they can be kept in mothballs indefinitely, but once they're pressed into service and actually start taking damage (assuming they make it back from an engagement), what's to be done for repair and replacement?

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #157 on: 04 June 2014, 01:47:15 »
dropshuttle bays are a bit of an issue.  The two main questions are

1. can they ohld more than one ship.

2. Can they hold different types of ships.

1. I'd say yes, because if not there's not reason to make them so big given that large dropshuttles canonically didn't exist.

2. is somewhat more dicy-- Aerodyne and spheroid droppers are *quite* different in size and shape and even two aerodynes o the same tonnage can have a different exterior shape.  My bet is that dropshuttle bays would likely be "type restricted".  It might be permanent, or it might be something that you coudl change after a while, but in either case it would be far more inconvenient than using a collar, where there is no problem swapping a 2500 dropper for a 100k dropper.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #158 on: 04 June 2014, 04:21:20 »
Basically don't put money down on something a fan article writer said. :P

Yep. Writer of fan articles. That's me  O:-)

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #159 on: 04 June 2014, 04:24:03 »
Uh, I don't think that Jellico's assumption there is supported in any way by the rules except in the tonnage of the bay itself.  It's entirely possible that dropships are unable to use dropshuttle bays period if TBTP decide to go that direciton.

Given the complete absence of rules, nothing at all is supported by them.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #160 on: 04 June 2014, 10:06:08 »
To be honest I'm half expecting a generic 'DropShuttle' that all the states inherited from the Hegemony and didn't bother to replace with their own because of the advent of DropShips and Collars makes a lot more sense to me
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Welshman

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #161 on: 05 June 2014, 17:47:27 »
Basically don't put money down on something a fan article writer said. :P

Yes, even when they are CGL writers, because...


Well, I was hoping Jellico had some advance knowledge of those rules, otherwise he wouldn't have written what he did.

Even if we do know, we also know to be very careful when writing anything in public. When Jellico writes Fan Articles, he puts his CGL knowledge in a box beyond that as the unit designer talking about his design process (If you hadn't guessed, he designed the Defender not just wrote the article).


dropshuttle bays are a bit of an issue.  The two main questions are

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #162 on: 08 April 2016, 03:48:12 »
And you'll have to wait for them to be published. We haven't published them yet.

And now that they have... how in the world does the Defender's work when the ones we have have a max capacity of 10,000 tons? [This is also relevant for the League-class]

This has been bugging me.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #163 on: 08 April 2016, 10:26:33 »
And now that they have... how in the world does the Defender's work when the ones we have have a max capacity of 10,000 tons? [This is also relevant for the League-class]

This has been bugging me.

The final rules for DropShuttle Bays were laid down after the Defender was published. So errata may have to occur.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #164 on: 08 April 2016, 10:37:18 »
Most straightforward would be to put in eight standard Dropshuttle bays, which would be comparable to what was originally published in terms of capacity, or to put in four properly-sized bays and increase cargo.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #165 on: 08 April 2016, 10:52:22 »
So could a modern ship combine collars and bays?
I reckon the bay is quite a bit safer if you want to really safeguard something.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #166 on: 08 April 2016, 11:38:11 »
As evidenced by the League-class, yes. :)
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #167 on: 08 April 2016, 13:04:09 »
There isn't much reason to do so in the 31st/32nd century, though, given how long it takes to unload or load Dropshuttle bays.

Wait. Dropshuttle bays don't count against docking collar limits, do they? Each have their own limits.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #168 on: 08 April 2016, 13:33:56 »
There isn't much reason to do so in the 31st/32nd century, though, given how long it takes to unload or load Dropshuttle bays.

Yes, no. Normally, your WarShip would have plenty of time to launch. Having to take a couple of hours to launch a pair of 5kt ships from a dropshuttle bay isn't much compared to the days it takes to fly between the jump points and planets and, even without a NCSS, sensor ranges are such that you'd have plenty of time to launch before an attacker could get in range. The danger is if the attacker starts closer than the detection limit - such as after a Crazy Jane - or if they coast in rather than using thrust, thus denying you the use of your longest ranged sensor, the driver plume detector.

For a WarShip invading a system, the coasting threat almost certainly isn't a realistic one, because you'd have to be sitting at the jump point for a long time for the enemy to be able to coast into range, given that they won't be able to start until you arrive and are detected. A coasting attacker has to build up speed while thrusting outside of your drive plume detection range, then there's the coasting time itself, all of which is going to take way more than a few hours, most likely multiple days.

Although they comes with limits and problems, dropshuttle bays are still a viable way to "cheat" the C-Bill cost of carrying DropShips.

Quote
Wait. Dropshuttle bays don't count against docking collar limits, do they? Each have their own limits.

Each dropshuttle bay reduces counts as 2 collars for the purposes of the maximum number of collars.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #169 on: 08 April 2016, 19:36:50 »
Hope we do get couple of primitive dropships for the Defender could pop out of.   It's crazy how the only known early dropship, the Drosts were 5k2 ish range.  We only have one Primitive Book left, usually it's one dropship per book if any.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #170 on: 08 April 2016, 19:37:42 »
Each dropshuttle bay reduces counts as 2 collars for the purposes of the maximum number of collars.
To be fair, I think few vessels actually approach their limit of possible docking hardpoints.
It'd really be variety for varieties sake.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #171 on: 08 April 2016, 20:08:33 »
Hope we do get couple of primitive dropships for the Defender could pop out of.   It's crazy how the only known early dropship, the Drosts were 5k2 ish range.  We only have one Primitive Book left, usually it's one dropship per book if any.

The mass of the DroSTs may yet be errataed, but we also have the Vulture and the Manatee.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #172 on: 08 April 2016, 21:06:22 »
The mass of the DroSTs may yet be errataed, but we also have the Vulture and the Manatee.

Black Eagle is also 4.5kt.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #173 on: 08 April 2016, 21:17:42 »
assuming the eratta goes the obvious route of just doubling the number of bays to keep the tonnage intact, the Defender's airwing gets kinda nasty.. that is up to Sixteen 5K tonnage dropshuttles it can deploy, fairly rapidly, plus the 20 small craft.

to be honest, while i highly doubt that this was an influence, the end result reminds me a bit of the UNSC infinity from Halo4. massive, lots of firepower (forward canted even), and Carrying smaller warships along for the ride. too bad it wasn't nearly as indestructible as the Infinty


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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #174 on: 09 April 2016, 00:19:47 »
Black Eagle is also 4.5kt.
She little new for early ships and has one problem.  She spheriod.  DropShuttle only take Aerodynes last time i checked.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #175 on: 09 April 2016, 00:30:29 »
She little new for early ships and has one problem.  She spheriod.  DropShuttle only take Aerodynes last time i checked.

Tell that to the Vulture and Manatee.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #176 on: 09 April 2016, 00:33:38 »
She little new for early ships and has one problem.  She spheriod.  DropShuttle only take Aerodynes last time i checked.

Just checked Interstellar Operations, and can find no such limitation on DropShuttle  bays in the final version.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #177 on: 09 April 2016, 00:50:14 »
I certainly think aesthetically aerodynes look better... but there seems to be no rules limitation of such.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #178 on: 09 April 2016, 10:24:41 »
Just checked Interstellar Operations, and can find no such limitation on DropShuttle  bays in the final version.
I'm glad, i could sworn one earlier info had said it was things about had to be aerodyne.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Defender
« Reply #179 on: 09 April 2016, 10:39:54 »
Welshman.  He commented in this thread that he figured that spheroids would be just too darn bulky.  He's probably right, but it doesn't appear to have made its way into the rules.
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