fighting as, and against, the Lyrans

[ScottSR]

So I've recently decided that apparently I am a fan of the Lyrans and wanted to ask for advice in fighting as, and against, them. 

Of course, the House Steiner known for big, heavy, slow designs, and churning out lots of mechs with all of their factories and industrial base. 

-How does one best play as Lyrans?
-How does one best play against the Lyrans?
-How does tactical or strategic incompetence show up on the table top in a game involving the Lyrans?
-What are some of the best units?  Some of the worst?
-Any particular differences when playing against the clans vs against another IS power?

Thanks.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

So I've recently decided that apparently I am a fan of the Lyrans and wanted to ask for advice in fighting as, and against, them. 

Of course, the House Steiner known for big, heavy, slow designs, and churning out lots of mechs with all of their factories and industrial base. 

-How does one best play as Lyrans?

Hit people really, really hard.  Lyrans favor heavy autocannons and Gauss Rifles/Heavy Gauss Rifles and extremely tough mechs.  But remember, Lyrans may have a rep for assault mechs, but if you look at what they actually produce, you should realize quickly that they simply have everything.  They don't just field Atlases supported by Banshees, they've got Blitzkriegs, Osirises, Starslayers, Lynxes, Falconers, Starslayers, Archers, Black Hawk KUs, Wolfhounds, and did I mentions Starslayers?  Basically, playing Lyran means that in character you've got a huge selection of really good stuff.

-How does one best play against the Lyrans?

Depends on what they're doing.  Against a traditional Wall of Steel, either use your own wall or stay mobile and try to do a "death by papercuts" at long range.  Stealth armor, artillery, and indirect fire help.

-How does tactical or strategic incompetence show up on the table top in a game involving the Lyrans?

Typically when someone sees that you're playing Lyran and makes the mistake of thinking it means your an idiot.

-What are some of the best units?  Some of the worst?

Best?  That's quite a list, but some of the best performers for me have been the Wolfhound (WLF-1, WLF-2, WLF-3S), the Osiris 4D, Starslayer, Lynx, Dragon Fire, BNC-3S Banshee, and Devastator.  Some of the real lemons have been the MAD-5S Marauder, STK-5S Stalker, the 12S Scorpion, and the 1S and 3S variants of the Battlemaster.

-Any particular differences when playing against the clans vs against another IS power?

No more so than any other Successor State faces.  Remember to bring plenty of ECM when facing the Combine and anti-missile systems when up against the FWL.  Against the Falcons, bring reinforcements.

[MadCapellan]

The Lyrans are an incredibly easy, straightforward faction to play.  On the whole, they field some of the best 'Mechs in the game, with a wide selection of Assault 'Mechs able to dish out serious direct-fire damage at all ranges.  While less commonly thought of, even their Medium 'Mechs tend to be great performers.  Until recently, their Aerospace units have been comparatively under-performing, but the introduction of the Eisensturm & Morgenstern have changed that. 

In general, winning with the LCAF is as easy as taking control of a position of cover with a wide field of fire and planting, counting on a small number of Medium 'Mechs to cover your flanks with their pulse & standard lasers (both of which Lyran mediums use in large numbers).  While the DCMS' C³ networks might seem to provide a large advantage in ranged duels, simply gun down their spotters as they present themselves, sending forward your cavalry Mediums if necessary to cut them down.  The FWL & Clans can present a slightly more difficult foe, since both forces tend to have slightly longer engagement ranges than the typical Lyran force.  You'll need to find a way to draw them in to your effective engagement range, or otherwise corner them before decisively enaging them.

The preferable way to defeat the Lyrans is by taking advantage of their relative shortage of effective unconventional assets.  Stealth Armored BattleMechs can effectively counteract the Lyran's ranged firepower.  Artillery & Conventional Bombers can make short work of their slow, ponderous 'Mech & tank forces.  missile & artillery deployed minefields can box in their medium weight reaction forces, and indirect fired LRMs can be effective in hitting them hard without exposing yourself to return fire as well.  In addition, with the exception of a few 'Mechs like the Firestarter, many Lyran units are ill-equipped to deal with conventional infantry and Battle Armor, so both can be effective at attacking Lyran 'Mechs if you can get them close enough.

Ultimately, because the LCAF is perhaps the most well-rounded army in Battletech, it's hard to make generalizations about how to play or defeat them, since they have such a varied selection of forces. 

[Top Sergeant]

As a surprise for your opponent, as a Lyran player remember the Blitzkompanie (Lightning Company). I like to includein games, along with the typical heavier Steiner machines eveyone expects, a Lance of fast, hard hitting little bastards.  8)

[PsihoKekec]

Remember that THOMAS HOGARTH!!! is not the LCAF General of Armies but only the poster boy. They want you to belive that Zeus is their scout mech so they can surprise you with their actual flankers.

[Col.Hengist]

Nice Top,That's the way to give us a bad reputation and the rest of you also.  Of cource we only use Zeuses for scouting backed up by the slightly heavier light mech known as the battlemaster. I'll pull my tongue out of my cheek now.

 Yes,we have and deloy many good assault designs but what really messes with people is the blitz. Get some good cavalry mediums and heavies ( usually 5/8/?) Speeds and hit their flanks. Use the assaults to take the center. Don't sit them on a hill and bunker them tho. You'll get caught my artillery and bombing runs. Keep moving,a static defence =  Death.

[Demon55]

I usually would take out their faster elements first and then use hit and run attacks to wear down their heavier units.  Also luring their units into minefield is always fun. 

[Moonsword]

Bring proper supporting elements.  An unsupported wall of steel is a target in many situations.  A supported one with maneuver, scouting, and aerospace assets readily available is a very different matter.  In addition, their aerospace assets have never been quite as bad as you'd assume - they build a lot of other people's fighters, including some excellent ones.

[Top Sergeant]

Nice Top,That's the way to give us a bad reputation and the rest of you also.

What did I say?  :o

I was talking about oyr lightning companies, the ones with Blitzkreigs, Stiletto 4B's, Darts, Starslayers, etc.

[Minemech]

 My best weapon against many Lyran players is mapsheets. Smarter Lyran players will plan around such things, but it does affect them.

[IndyRI]

What did I say?  :o

I was talking about oyr lightning companies, the ones with Blitzkreigs, Stiletto 4B's, Darts, Starslayers, etc.

I think that was the point. To a Lyran, the idea of ever using light mechs is a bad reputation.

[Moonsword]

To the stupid ones.  The Lyrans with working brains, on the other hand, are very, very dangerous, because two things the LCAF's never been accused of screwing up is production and logistics.

[Johnny 'NKH' Leyland]

The Lyran armies I've seen were often built around a core of Gauss-armed Assault 'mechs. Long-range Heavies backed them up and there were fastish jump-pulse mechs to harass or troubleshoot. I'd see Alacorns quite often too.

[Col.Hengist]

What did I say?  :o

I was talking about oyr lightning companies, the ones with Blitzkreigs, Stiletto 4B's, Darts, Starslayers, etc.

 Lol,guess you didnt see the tongue in cheek part.

[Spheroid]

Best?  That's quite a list, but some of the best performers for me have been the Wolfhound (WLF-1, WLF-2, WLF-3S), the Osiris 4D, Starslayer, Lynx, Dragon Fire, BNC-3S Banshee, and Devastator. 

Achernar was located on New Avalon last time I checked.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Achernar was located on New Avalon last time I checked.

The OP was asking about Lyran used mechs, not Lyran built ones.  The Osiris is a damned good 30 tonner that shows up in Lyran rosters, therefore I listed it.

[Sigma]

Remember that THOMAS HOGARTH!!! is not the LCAF General of Armies but only the poster boy. They want you to believe that Zeus is their scout mech so they can surprise you with their actual flankers.

THOMAS HOGARTH!!! does get promoted to LCAF Head of Procurement after the Jihad so his very interesting views will likely color the new equipment that the Lyrans invest in at least in the short term.

Zeus scouts and Commando battle armor for everyone!

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

More awesome policy from Adamn Steiner. At this rate his line will cost us half the realm OH WAIT.

[markhall]

To fight against Lyrans.
I would recommend the Liberal use or artillery and "Can Opener"  Weapons.
This for for your stereotypical Lyran assault force.
But the Lyrans are just as varied as the Ghost bears when it come to unit types.

I know plenty of Lyrans who use a lighter forces.
One of our regular players Saucy six LG unit has a lance that 2 Annihilators and 2 Urbies.
And a Lance of that HPPC Bitlzkerg. That one gets my goat alright.

Find what works for you and go with it is the best advice once can receive on these boards.

[St.George]

lyran players in my group follow canon(to a point),,,the group agrees with the fact that the LC/LA militarys where based off WW1/WW2 German army,,,,,from the decription of military leaders down to the lowly groundpounder.Even types of equipment(heavey duty stuff) and the advoidance of light arms.
God knows,how many times canon has siad"The leadership in the Lyran military lacks in leadership skills",now thats not all leaders(Rommel and a few others wasn't fools,,,but their bosses were in WW2)as the same goes to the LC at the start of the 4th SW.The small unit leaders were of high grade,as well as their troops.

But then again,,,it's your table,,do what ya want  :D

[ABADDON]

Uhm, I find it pretty strange to compare lyran ****** in leadership and strategic planning to the Wehrmacht leaders, as Germany had more or less the best military leadership in the first half of WW2, until Hitler screwed it by replacing the likes of Rommel, Guderian, von Manstein and even von Rundstedt.

I think the whole lyran social general thingy functions as some kind of counter for all that industrial might and armaments prowess and is not really an analogy to WW2.

[Crunch]

I think that was the point. To a Lyran, the idea of ever using light mechs is a bad reputation.

Which is insane. The LCAF has some of the best Light and Medium mechs out there. You can do a lot of damage with Blitzkriegs and Wolfhounds backed up by Hollanders.

[Devens]

Which is insane. The LCAF has some of the best Light and Medium mechs out there. You can do a lot of damage with Blitzkriegs and Wolfhounds backed up by Hollanders.

The RATS do a bad job of portraying a typical force of any given house.  Wolfhounds and Hollanders are nice, but we also have good effective light mechs with real mobility.

The Spector, Stiletto, and the Talon are also Lyran ligts.  They are well armored(for a light), mobile, and quite good overall.   

We also have the Scarabus and the Dart for those who prefer the perverbial "rocket on a rollerskate" mechs. 

I think that was the point. To a Lyran, the idea of ever using light mechs is a bad reputation.

Thomas Hargoth is not a Typical Lyran, just a Stereotype of a Lyran Social General.   

While Bigger is Better can hold true to a limited degree if done inteligently(Phoenix Hawk vs Stinger/Wasp as a Jump-capable 6/9/6 scout), the Existance of Force Balancing weather it be Tonnage or BV or BV2 puts an artificial restriction that makes it not hold true due to the need to sacrifice quality or Mass in one unit to increase another or pay for pilot skill upgrades.   This is a Case Where Game rules change a streotype from "Diffrent and maybe misguided depending on how far they take the streotype" to downright Stupid and Idiodic.

Using a Pheonix Hawk in place of a wasp as a recon platform can be a very good move.  A thunderhawk in place of a Jagermech as a direct fire support unit also potensialy a very good move.  Using a Zeus in place of a Wasp as a Scout a very bad move unless your performing a Recon In Force and even then its an iffy move.

[Moonsword]

The RATS do a bad job of portraying a typical force of any given house.  Wolfhounds and Hollanders are nice, but we also have good effective light mechs with real mobility.

The Spector, Stiletto, and the Talon are also Lyran ligts.  They are well armored(for a light), mobile, and quite good overall.

We also have the Scarabus and the Dart for those who prefer the perverbial "rocket on a rollerskate" mechs.

And the Hussar - CMW's building them.  The Hollander is a specialist, not a generalist, and a weird one at that while the Wolfhound and Razorback are scout hunters and troopers.  They're both useful - Wolfhounds, in my experience, have to be literally torn apart to stop them and the WLF-2 makes a good attempt at punching above its weight class - but they're not featherweight lights.

[Devens]

And the Hussar - CMW's building them.  The Hollander is a specialist, not a generalist, and a weird one at that while the Wolfhound and Razorback are scout hunters and troopers.  They're both useful - Wolfhounds, in my experience, have to be literally torn apart to stop them and the WLF-2 makes a good attempt at punching above its weight class - but they're not featherweight lights.

I always liked my wolfhounds.  Along with the Spector, Talon, Scarabus, and Stiletto they form the core of my light mech force in the Post Fedcom-era game.

[topcat]

So I've recently decided that apparently I am a fan of the Lyrans and wanted to ask for advice in fighting as, and against, them.  Of course, the House Steiner known for big, heavy, slow designs, and churning out lots of mechs with all of their factories and industrial base.

Welcome to the big boys' table!  :D

-How does one best play as Lyrans?

Minimize movement mods, maximize long-range firepower.  All those weapons and all that armor will see you through quite a bit as long as you don't muck it up by getting outranged or hamstringing yourself with movement mods.  Use formations and/or flippable arms to minimize exposure to backbiters.  Focus firepower on fewer targets to remove them from the battle quickly.

-How does one best play against the Lyrans?

A few quick options: 1) be bigger; 2) outrange & outmaneuver; or 3) move the goalposts.  Nothing takes the wind out of a big mech player like bringing even bigger mechs to the table.  A medium company can act offensively against lighter opponents or defensively against heavier opponents, but assault companies can just be beaten at their own game by a bigger, better opponent.  If you can outrange and outmaneuver a heavier mech, then you can eventually whittle it down with a series of unanswerable TN10+ shots.  If you can adjust the conditions of victory to favor non-Steiner tactics, then you can create a significant advantage.  For instance, "escape off the far map edge" allows a fast company to leave those slow, heavier mechs in the dust.

-How does tactical or strategic incompetence show up on the table top in a game involving the Lyrans?

Ugh... well, I guess you could let your opponent move for you one round of their choosing?

-What are some of the best units?  Some of the worst?

I'll leave that to someone better informed.

-Any particular differences when playing against the clans vs against another IS power?

The Clans can have mobility, firepower and armor advantages or the ability to double up on any one of those and just be crazy powerful.  Clantech has better range and more firepower per ton, which can really hurt an assault company.  It's kind of the perfect storm of Steiner-slaying.  Granted, it's kind of the perfect storm of anything-slaying, but mechs that can produce very high defensive movement mods have some kind of chance to avoid that withering firepower long enough to maybe get away.

[Top Sergeant]

-What are some of the best units?  Some of the worst?

I'll need to consult my FM later but I do know that the 6th Lyran Guard recieve D6 Edge Points at the start of every game.

[Diamondshark]

As the Lyrans: GIMMIE MY FAFNIR RECON LANCE!!!1!!eleven!!
Against the Lyrans: The Iron Wall is also very vulnerable to critseeking, SRMs and the LB-20X are your friend.

[Moonsword]

Another great way is to quit playing the stereotype, show up in cavalry 'Mechs, and rock out.  The Lyrans make so much stuff that it's almost inevitable you can find something they build for your needs.

[Diamondshark]

Yeah, that's true.  The only thing that keeps the Blitzkrieg from being my favorite mech is its lack of energy backup.

[Moonsword]

The Blitzkrieg is, like the Hollander, one of those 'Mechs I envision being concentrated and used as a reserve.  Once the main forces are stuck in, the Blitzkriegs come screaming in to bust heads, or a couple of Hollanders reinforce a light/medium company with Gauss fire.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, that's true.  The only thing that keeps the Blitzkrieg from being my favorite mech is its lack of energy backup.

Have you tried the new variant?  7/11/7 with HPPC+TC+C3 slave }:)

Personally, I don't use the Blitz too often because I've found that in Lance on Lance games it can be entirely too easy to win.  Sneaking up behind mechs who don't have a prayer at getting away and giving them a depleted uranium probing just lacks challenge.

[Doug Glendower]

Read about the 32nd Lyran, if you want to play. Advance, use static units to cover advancing units until they've reached cover, and then reverse. Force the opponent into cones of fire. Don't worry about your 'Mechs, they're the finest in the 'Sphere. You'll find a decent variant of whatever type you need, and if you can't decide, there is the Starslayer. Downplay the Atlas, pick up one of the newer, scarier Banshees. Don't forget the Hauptmann. Your cavalry will be a little slower than the Davion's, but it'll be filled with some of the best 5/8 'Mechs out there, even if you rarely crack into 6/9 territory. Finally, your scouts are tough hombres full of fight in the Mongoose, Spector, Wolfhound, and that new HPPC Blitzkrieg (which I like to use as a mid-game breakthrough reserve too, but it's also an awesome scout leader.)

The "incompetence" thing is a fluff thing to justify storyline. If it went by straight gameplay, the LC has an embarrasment of riches, beyond even just the gift that keeps on giving, the Starslayer.

Playing against them? Well, unless your opponent is going to "play stupid", you're going to have to try to roll up a flank to prevent murderous combined fire. Use terrain to trap their break through artists like Blitzy and Wolfy. Try to concentrate on their XL'd 'Mechs first because it'll drain their firepower faster, giving you time to worry your way through the tougher 'Mechs. See that Starslayer over there, you blew off his left side? He doesn't notice that. If you have the option, burn down the forests they'll take refuge in. Quite a few are at maximum heat or total heat pigs, and that could work in your favor... if they haven't loaded up on Mr. Gauss. Lyran players, playing unrestricted, have just the widest possible choices available to them. Plan accordingly.

[markhall]

Yeah, that's true.  The only thing that keeps the Blitzkrieg from being my favorite mech is its lack of energy backup.

As Moonstone Said the 4F is an awesome Mech.

[Nibs]

As Moonstone Said the 4F is an awesome Mech.

Moonstone!?

Do you mean Moonsword?

[Ruger]

Using a Zeus in place of a Wasp as a Scout a very bad move unless your performing a Recon In Force and even then its an iffy move.

I don't know...I've made a recon Zeus before...it's armed pretty much like a standard Zeus, has a decent electronics package, and can move at 140+ kph...

 }:)

Ruger

[Devens]

I don't know...I've made a recon Zeus before...it's armed pretty much like a standard Zeus, has a decent electronics package, and can move at 140+ kph...

 }:)

Ruger

Which TRO is it in???

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

XTRO Steiner if we're lucky.

[Ruger]

Which TRO is it in???

Believe me, I wish it was official...it would finally be a "real Lyran" scout 'Mech...

 ;)

Ruger

[Moonsword]

There is that Charger from one of the books.

Honestly, they've got proper recon assets, as loath as Hogarth (or his public persona, at any rate) may be willing to admit it.  Call them "reconnaissance battle armor suits" - the original Commando then becomes the Lyran Kanazuchi!

EDIT: *strips the italics on the Kanazuchi, nothing to see here*

[jklantern]

XTRO Steiner if we're lucky.

That would be so many levels of hilarious awesome.

[False Son]

Lyrans do have speed in spades, but it's the type of speed that has always drawn me in.  Prolific use of the Light Engine gives you monsters like the Banshee and Zeus, which combine armor, moderate speed and firepower with the durability of a clan XL engine.  Then there are the really fast assaults like Zerkers and Salamander 5T.

Then there is the Lyran love of big guns brought on small, fast platforms.  The Blitzkreig has been mentioned, but the Hollander II F7 is a 5/8 with a heavy gauss rifle.  These kinds of weapons being able to be a turn or two behind some PHX-7S and some Nightskies is a huge boon.  Those huge, but fairly quick guns will hit hard and allow your lighter stuff to exploit the holes blown in the armor.

Finally there's Lyran combined arms.  Oh boy, talk about spoiled.  I won't go into it too much, as you seem interested primarily in mechs, but the Lyrans aren't lacking in quality frontline MBTs or APCs.  Now, consider battle armor like the Fenrir and the Rottweiler.  These guys have big firepower and good speed.  The Fenrir won't win any awards for survival, but it's firepower is among the best.  The Rottweiler is fast and has improved stealth armor.  That will have a better chance of surviving than most units.  It also has good weapons loadouts and improved sensors for hurting targets in woods.  RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm not a fan of the Hollander II with the HGR.  The Heavy Gauss is just too heavy and too problematic with its PSR or fall unless you stand still, and given that the roll is at a +1 on a medium mech, that's a really bad situation to be in.  Especially when you consider that if it gets a Right Torso (Rear) location on the fall, it's rolling a crit check against the big gun.

[Top Sergeant]

Commando 7X
Stilletto 4B
Blitzkrieg (original)
Cicada 3F

 8)

If you want best speed then swap the Commando for a Dart or a Spectre

[Doug Glendower]

You should NEVER be without a Spector

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Spector is awesome.  Especially the Stealth variant.

What other stealth mechs are the Lyrans producing?  Anything besides the Mongoose II and the Ghost?

[False Son]

The Spector is awesome.  Especially the Stealth variant.

What other stealth mechs are the Lyrans producing?  Anything besides the Mongoose II and the Ghost?

HBK-5SG

[Traecer Revenant]

Liking this thread  O0

I assume at some point there will be a Field Report: LAAF, right?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

HBK-5SG

Not in production- only ever reached the prototype stage.

[StCptMara]

My experience(as I try to know how to think as every faction) is Lyrans are fun because...you can play with people's
expectations.

If you have a two lance fight, for instance? Bring the classic line of Fafnir, Devastator, Atlas, and Thunder Hawk....
then throw in  a Commando, Blitzkrieg, Hollander II, and a Starslayer.

Steiner, of course, is also known for their tank corps, and, in fact, in my Steiner Regiment I have been building, I have,
in addition to the tank battalion, a detached company that is for head-hunting duty.
If possible(and allowed in the scenario), you want to have artillery, preferably off-board Long Toms and Arrow IVs.

Steiner will fight either using a hammer and anvil type approach(their mediums and lights driving the enemy to break on
the line of assault 'mechs), or they use the "Wall of Steel": March the assault 'mechs abreast, pick one target, concentrate fire.
Always expect a Steiner to have at least one 'mech heavier then the rest. I have a recon lance, for example, that consists of
two Vindicators, a Centurion, and a Marauder. Also, remember: Steiners are Merchants...if they want something bad enough,
they can and WILL get it.

Steiner's inherent weakness, tactically speaking, is that, with the exception of the Blitkrieg and Stiletto, they tend to
be a little slower then other factions. Their assault lances you can either take apart via indirect LRM fire, or, better yet,
artillery. Otherwise, hit and fade, keep to cover, do not let them concentrate fire on you, isolate and kill them one at a time.
Expect to take damage, too.

[markhall]

Moonstone!?

Do you mean Moonsword?

Why yes. Yes I did.

[Devens]

Steiner's inherent weakness, tactically speaking, is that, with the exception of the Blitkrieg and Stiletto, they tend to
be a little slower then other factions.

Dart, Scarabus, Spector, Talon, Mongoose II.  We have more than just the Blitzkrieg and Stiletto.  Perceptions are often decieving.  We are not as slow as people think. 

One of our real weaknesses is not the speed of our individual units, its one that does not really effect the game table.  We have less light mechs than other houses.  Most Houses field 30-35% light mechs in a given regiment depending on the house, we field about 20%.  That extra 10-15% freed up goes twards the Extra Heavy and Assault Mechs we field above and beyone the typical mix of other houses.

Weather any of the weaknesses given by most players manifests themselves really depends on the individual player.  Steiner fans have a tendency to go for Bigger Slower mechs as they are attracted by the 100 ton Gauss Boats, never looking at the full spectrum of our mech force.  If you get a steiner player who looks at all their assets, yes you will see the gauss boats but you will also see the Mobile mediums and fast lights to support them and may not even see any of the "Typical steiner weaknesses".   They will often modify the Wall of Steel to make use of the Mobility of these mediums and lights to the tactics. 

You should NEVER be without a Spector

One of our good light mechs, dont ignore the Talon either.

Another one to look at in the heavy Catagory is the Dragon Fire.   Very Good Durability and Firepower.   Its prabably better than some of our Assault Mechs that have higher BV than it.       

   

[Top Sergeant]

More favorites in the LAAF hangar:

Stalker 8S: its great because even after you tell the opposition they still think of it as a missile boat

Caesar, Marauder, Dragonfire (as Devens mentioned)

[markhall]

I love the Caesar.

I don't think I've ever not enjoyed fielding one. Sure they can occasionally die to Gauss explosions.
But the Light engine Varients are great trooper units.

[Moonsword]

I've always liked the Cestus.  Pretty reliable performer for me.

[Col.Hengist]

cestus is a very nice mech,I just picked one up the other day. Unfortunately its going into my to-do pile. I like the version with the ERlarges. Very solid mech

[Daishi411]

i remember cassandra allard liao had a custom one with JJs, i can't remember the exact changes (i think a switch in endo) and it makes it a really good semi-mobile heavy. it really is one of the most hideous mechs in the game though #P

[Moonsword]

cestus is a very nice mech,I just picked one up the other day. Unfortunately its going into my to-do pile. I like the version with the ERlarges. Very solid mech

There's no canon Cestus with an ERLL.  Three mount standard large lasers (the 6 series), though, including both of the common modern models.

[Col.Hengist]

  Strange, guess I've been using one off my heavy metal that's not cannon. I got the program like this from a friend. Maybe someone else made it and stuck it in with the cannon ones. Either way... Cestus with ERLLs and dhs is schweeeeet.

[Moonsword]

It's possible there's a one-off variant somewhere.  It's not in RS3058 Unabridged.  *shrugs*

[False Son]

I'm also a fan of the Arctic Fox.  If by chance you are hauling some of the few humanoid battle armors the Lyrans have, GD and IS standard and GD scout, the Arctic Fox is a decent taxi.  Besides that the Fox has alot of firepower for it's size on some of it's varients.

Then there are the ever dependable guys like Enfields, Starslayers and Lynx.

As for assaults, I think the Hauptman is my current favorite, because of the new varients.  The Hauptman is already fun because it's one of the few high tonnage assaults Lyrans make that isn't about fitting as many of some weapon on the chasis as possible.  The OD varient provides one of the few C3 Masters the Lyrans make on a sturdy and reliable, well armed frame.

Other assaults i'm fond of are the Fafnir (draws a ton of fire, or just plain murders things) the Beserker, Banshee 6S and 7S, most models of the Zeus and the Battlemaster 4S.

[Diamondshark]

most models of the Zeus

You mean the standard Lyran scout mech?  :D

[Moonsword]

You're a little late on that joke delivery - we've been snarking on it since the first page of the thread.

[Daishi411]

people have been making that joke since the idea that the lyrans are users of assaults primarily has been around, i know its a common thing to see in other lyran threads

[Col.Hengist]

Its funn to me. I'm a dyed in the wool Lyran, and a folower of the Summersets( the true Archon line,the one that brought us out of the opression of the Word). I love playing up the socialgeneral bit while hitting peoples flanks with fast hard hitting mediums.
 Its just a lot of fun playing that way,at least to me it is.

[Doug Glendower]

"Sir, the lance of Starslayers have begun their attack!"

"Excellent, that mean's according to the plan, it's afternoon tea! Send in the Blitzkriegs, and have them drop off the cucumber sandwiches on their way in!"

[Top Sergeant]

"And have that Stalker pilot shift his mech a bit as the day wears on to keep the dining pavillion in the shade."

[False Son]

"Tell them to disengage their auto cannons.  Those are frightfully too loud."

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

And somebody remind that PPR-5S pilot of the difference between upwind and downwind!

[Doug Glendower]

"Tell them to disengage their auto cannons.  Those are frightfully too loud."

This is innacurate. A real social general knows how to adapt.

"Commo officer, please try to do better in syncing up the 1812 overture to outgoing fire. It's a little disconcorant, and disturbing the hearing of the ladies present."

[False Son]

Maybe he had a headache.

"Sorry I crashed into your children's hospital, old bean.  I was a bit distracted, looking for my fallen monocle on the cockpit floor."

[Traecer Revenant]

<deleted>
I thought it was funny, but I'm sure no one else would.  Especially the target.

[Doug Glendower]

Well, I was trying to come up with ways to make Social Generalism WORK for you.

[Traecer Revenant]

Well, I was trying to come up with ways to make Social Generalism WORK for you.

Oh it wasn't about you...your stuff was funny  ;D

[Top Sergeant]

Hmmm. I keep gatting English or French accents in my head when trying to think up social general lines, and those seem more Davion, don' really seem Steiner.

Wait a tick: looking over Doug's post he made it sound like a Social General with functional results. That works!

"Why is His Grace exiting his cockpit?"
"He strapped his martini shaker to his Ultra AC/ 20. One engagement and he's all set to go!"

[Traecer Revenant]

Hmmm. I keep gatting English or French accents in my head when trying to think up social general lines, and those seem more Davion, don' really seem Steiner.

For accents, think Scottish, Irish, German.  Unless from Smolnik, then think Polish.  The Lyrans do have an odd mix of cultures at times.

[Doug Glendower]

"Please drop artillery at grid coordinates 532451"

"Is that the location of the enemy, sir?"

"And the 18th hole of our new golf course, so do try to be as accurate as possible."

[Col.Hengist]

Id use the police inspector from young Frankenstein.

BTW you chaps are all very good at your attempts to imitate me but i am the very model of a modern social general. I've information animal,vegetable AND minetal. I know the Lyran Archons and their lineage catagorical. Yes, I am th very model of a modern social General.

[Top Sergeant]

Id use the police inspector from young Frankenstein.

BTW you chaps are all very good at your attempts to imitate me but i am the very model of a modern social general. I've information animal,vegetable AND minetal. I know the Lyran Archons and their lineage catagorical. Yes, I am th very model of a modern social General.

 [applause]

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Id use the police inspector from young Frankenstein.

BTW you chaps are all very good at your attempts to imitate me but i am the very model of a modern social general. I've information animal,vegetable AND minetal. I know the Lyran Archons and their lineage catagorical. Yes, I am th very model of a modern social General.

+1 Internet

[Col.Hengist]

/bow  manga tak,manga tak

[amanharan]

i've picked most of my early collection based on appearances of the mechs, and then realized the Lyran trend, with a splash of FS, something about the FedCom years and the intermixing of the two.

Hauptman, i especially love the small laser in the head, too classic of the officers it was named in honor of.

Saggitaire, so...much...stinking...firepower, and can handle a nice long campaign without the need for ammo resupplies

of course then there's always the classic recon mech, the Atlas. (i like to throw in a griffin and battlemaster with it just to be funny)

[Top Sergeant]

Lightning Company Question:

Should I draw the line at a 6/9 minimum movement curve, or should I lower it to 5/8 so that I can include a Griffin and a Wolverine?

[Moonsword]

Before 3050, 5/8.  Afterward, you may want to nudge it upward based on the increasing speed of heavy assets, particularly those in the hands of the Clans.

[Doug Glendower]

Lightning companies can have 5/8/5 Mechs, never 5/8/0, IMO.

[Moonsword]

I don't think I'd be bothered by an Ostol or Ostroc in 3025 - either one offers some pretty decent performance, really.  But 5/8/5 is an excellently flexible speed for them.

[Col.Hengist]

Didn't realise you posted this here also Top.

[False Son]

For accents, think Scottish, Irish, German.  Unless from Smolnik, then think Polish.  The Lyrans do have an odd mix of cultures at times.

Don't forget Afrikaans from New Capetown and Aussie from Coventry.  Super awesome.

Lightning companies can have 5/8/5 Mechs, never 5/8/0, IMO.

I dunno, i'm still a fan of the Hollander II 7S, Salamander 5T and the Bezerker series because of the hitting power they bring.  Lasers and PPCs are nice, but sometimes I want to bust someone up, and need a HGR.

[Top Sergeant]

Didn't realise you posted this here also Top.

Yup, trying to get both broader and more rapid feedback.  :)

[Taurevanime]

That reminds me. I am not all too familiar with Lyran mech selection. I know the Federated Suns quite enjoy their jumpjets for mobility in quite a lot of their mechs. But what about the Lyrans? Do they make much use of them? If you can show a difference in use pre and post FedCom, that'd be awesome.

[Doug Glendower]

I find the Stiener choices for Jump Jet application on the heavier mechs are a little on the strange side.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Aside from the weird choice with the GUN-1ERD Gunslinger, what are you referring to, Doug?

[Doug Glendower]

I... don't know. Apparently I'm misremembering stuff. I'm not drinking enough. :D

[Top Sergeant]

I... don't know. Apparently I'm misremembering stuff. I'm not drinking enough. :D

Back to the grog bowl with you young man!

[Col.Hengist]

not many non military would understand grog Top.Nice reference BTW lol.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

They would if they played The Secret of Monkey Island.