Author Topic: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power  (Read 21661 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #360 on: 03 April 2024, 20:45:45 »
coastal monitors are a great source of weird warship designs, due to their cramming such big guns into such small hulls.

the HMS Lord Clive always caught my eye for it's fixed side mounted 18inch gun.. which apparently was done because the turreted twin 12inch guns weren't seen as enough firepower..



So what was the recoil like with a gun that big on a ship that small?
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #361 on: 03 April 2024, 21:42:51 »
The Soviets played with this as well in WWII, with at least two destroyers being fitted with side-mounted 12" guns (I believe salvaged from the sunken Marat, though I'm not 100% sure on the source) for bombarding German shore positions. Keep the starboard side pointed at the beach, make very limited horizontal adjustments (major ones relied on turning the whole ship), and put heavy shells down on the beach outside the range of return fire. Neat idea, and a better use of old pre-Revolution DDs than just sending them in close to the beach to get savaged by shore batteries or Z-boats.

I've seen a reference to a similar idea being considered for old Wickes and Clemson-class DDs early in WWII for the Pacific island-invasion campaigns, but by the time anyone really worked on solid plans for it the Pearl Harbor ships were coming back into service, and provided the needed fire support instead. (This is also the reason the idea to salvage the aft half of the Arizona to turn into a shore bombardment ship, with a new front end, came to nothing.) A similar idea to convert Omaha-class CLs into jury-rigged Atlanta-style CLAAs, with 5"38s and quad-40mms replacing the 6-inch guns, also died off due to new-construction ships coming into service and making the Omahas- AA ships or standard- completely irrelevant for further use.

Holy cow, if you could find more on the proposed Omaha conversions, and the Wickes/Clemson ones, I'd love to see more.  I've always had a soft spot for the four-stacker cruisers and destroyers, and would love to know more.
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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #362 on: 04 April 2024, 00:00:31 »
Holy cow, if you could find more on the proposed Omaha conversions, and the Wickes/Clemson ones, I'd love to see more.  I've always had a soft spot for the four-stacker cruisers and destroyers, and would love to know more.

Some of the British C-class WW1 light cruisers underwent similar conversions, particularly the HMS Coventry, HMS Curlew, and (eventually) all of the Carlisle subclass.

HMS Delhi was also refit as an AA ship in the US, but was more of a one-off

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #363 on: 04 April 2024, 03:21:13 »
Circling around also gives time to prep the weapon again- there's no ammo hoist bringing shells up from below decks the way a battleship does, everything is more ad-hoc. In the Soviet case, shells were stored in a deckhouse next to the gun- so, you know, above the main deck, and manhandled viaa small gantry and sheer conscript muscle to bring a few of them to the breech area at a time. (I'm actually unsure about the layout of ships like the Lord Clive, but the sheer size of those shells likely warranted a less manpower-oriented approach). So by circling, you get off your three or four shots, putter around to a refreshed position, and while you're in transit prep your next few salvos.
Lord Clive had a whole narrow-gauge railway on deck to handle the 18" ammo.

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #364 on: 06 April 2024, 18:34:45 »
This popped up on Reddit.   HMS Hood under construction in Clydebank, Scotland, approximately 1916-1917.



Found this interesting, given the John Brown shipyard has so many cranes surrounding the ship being built.  I hadn't realized they needed so many back then.
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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #365 on: 06 April 2024, 18:36:38 »
When you think about it, makes sense - everything needs to be lifted into the hull, and more cranes means more progress per day.
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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #366 on: 06 April 2024, 18:37:51 »
Funny thing, I hadn't realize the ship is nearly as big as what would become the Iowa Class at 860' long and 104' wide.
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Euphonium

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #367 on: 07 April 2024, 12:47:40 »
I like the way that Hood is soo long that the hull extends off the land-ward end of the slip into the gap between the buildings...
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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #368 on: 09 April 2024, 15:53:37 »
Holy cow, if you could find more on the proposed Omaha conversions, and the Wickes/Clemson ones, I'd love to see more.  I've always had a soft spot for the four-stacker cruisers and destroyers, and would love to know more.

The Omaha-class stuff was... I think Norman Polmer, in his volume on U.S. cruiser designs, I want to say? It's been years since that book graced my shelves due to flooding (thanks, Sandy...), but I'm pretty sure that's where I came across that. Essentially, it would have been a twin-5" on each end replacing the twin-6" mounts, with the casemate guns removed entirely- where the upper casemates had been would have been quad-40mm mounts, although I wouldn't see any reason an open-mount 5"/38 couldn't work just as well there. I don't recall any of the other mods off the top of my head (torpedoes, light AA, etc.), but the other one that does stick in my mind is the removal of the tripod foremast for something more simple and less bulky to avoid blocking as much sky for the new forward 40mm mounts. Since by the time it was possible to start pulling these CLs out of service long enough for a conversion of this scale, though, it was because so many of thew newer Clevelands, improved-Atlantas, and of course newer DDs with their 5"38s, there just wasn't any real reason to waste the time on refitting these old dinosaurs. (I suspect a similar mentality is why the Colorado, for example, retained 5"/25s all the way to the end)

The 4-stackers, I honestly don't remember where I came across that, but like I said, none of that ever progressed as far as I know beyond the cocktail-napkin phase. The Navy lacked heavy ships (most of those were still being refurbished after a Hawaiian mud bath), but there were plenty of near-useless 4-stackers around, and leftover guns from when older ships were scrapped (12" from the Wyoming and prior, I assume it meant). Mount one fixed to one side, steam over to whatever tropical hellhole you want to land Marines on, and start thumping away. Inefficient as all hell, most likely- the fire rate would be awful, with only one jury-rigged gun and likely very little ammo to work with, but it beat nothing. But, luckily, an idea that batshit-crazy went away in favor of using the old battlewagons as they came back online- if a Clemson could fire a 12" shell every, say, 90 seconds (a number I'm pulling out of nowhere I admit, but there wouldn't be a standard hoist or any of that), and a New Mexico could throw twelve 14" every thirty seconds... why bother using up the shipyard resources on the DD idea? I'll see if I can find that reference again, but even back then it was pretty much a 'people got desperate for bad ideas, and sanity won the day' reference. I'm not even entirely sure where the gun would have been mounted on them, though aft seems as likely as any based on the Soviet and British attempts at the same.
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #369 on: 13 April 2024, 15:59:43 »
Here's an interesting video on the 112(!) carriers the US used during WWII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7jVfcbCxZE

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #370 on: 03 May 2024, 16:42:13 »
The only known photo of the three Littorio-class battleships together, in the brief period between Roma's completion and loss. Taken by an RAF recon plane at La Spezia.
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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #371 on: 03 May 2024, 18:50:02 »
This popped up on Reddit.   HMS Hood under construction in Clydebank, Scotland, approximately 1916-1917.



Found this interesting, given the John Brown shipyard has so many cranes surrounding the ship being built.  I hadn't realized they needed so many back then.
When you think about it, makes sense - everything needs to be lifted into the hull, and more cranes means more progress per day.

looks like there are 3 empty construction slips alongside.. but the slip it is in still has something like 8 cranes. which no doubt were working round the clock. of course at the time the ships were literally built keel up from frames and plates in situe.. you needed a lot of cranes and workers to assemble them in a reasonable time. modern ships tend to be built more as vertical slices end to end, or at least in large chunks. with the chunks being built elsewhere then moves into place. which lets them get away with one or two very large cranes, and fewer workers, but also produce much larger ships.
(hopefulyl these pics show up)



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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #372 on: 03 May 2024, 18:52:34 »
What's being built in these newer yard?
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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #373 on: 03 May 2024, 19:02:09 »
What's being built in these newer yard?
if you mean the pics..
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/17/business/economy/how-container-ships-are-built.html

(forgot to post the link)

i think those are cargoships? which given those are far bigger than even the biggest battleships, kinda work as an illustration.

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #374 on: 05 May 2024, 16:20:32 »
Can you imagine putting two of these Big Crago Super ships and making them into ONE Catamaran?

I'd call that a floating "Rigger's Island"...

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #375 on: 05 May 2024, 17:25:28 »





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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #376 on: 05 May 2024, 18:09:55 »
Nice comparison there!  I've driven USS ENTERPRISE (CVN-65, as conning officer)... her advantage was speed over those civilian ships... ;)

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #377 on: 05 May 2024, 22:22:32 »
but of course.
plus the fact that knot only can the Nimitz outpace any civilian ship,
but also the fact that Nimitz doesn't have to worry about "gas mileage".

"put her to Max Military power and leave her there..."

as of 2000, the unclass max speed was listed online as 33.6 knots+

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #378 on: 06 May 2024, 00:25:56 »
her advantage was speed over those civilian ships... ;)

Methinks having a carrier air wing, with nucs, might also be advantages.
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chanman

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #379 on: 06 May 2024, 01:35:11 »
but of course.
plus the fact that knot only can the Nimitz outpace any civilian ship,
but also the fact that Nimitz doesn't have to worry about "gas mileage".

"put her to Max Military power and leave her there..."

as of 2000, the unclass max speed was listed online as 33.6 knots+

The escorts have to worry about fuel though. Sure, the CVN can blast along at flank speed all day and night, but the escort group are going to need to gas up pretty damn frequently if you do that

Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #380 on: 06 May 2024, 03:40:43 »
Carriers replenish their escorts all the time... ;)

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #381 on: 06 May 2024, 17:01:41 »






Interesting part looking at that is . . .

Liberty
Length-                 4.5 hexes
Width/Beam-     .5 hexes
Draft-                    1 level below, 1 level above, superstructure is 2 levels?

 

T2 tanker/container-conversion ship
Length-                 5 hexes
Beam-                   .67 hexes

Panamax
Length-                 12 hexes
Beam-                   near 2 hexes

Suezmax
Length-                 13 hexes
Beam-                   2.55 hexes
Draft-                    20 meters
Height                   68 meters; hull 1-2 levels, superstructure 3-6 levels
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phoenixalpha

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Re: Naval Pictures X: Underway on Nuclear Power
« Reply #382 on: 07 May 2024, 06:29:13 »
In that image - those are older & smaller cruise ships. Newer cruise ships (like the Icon of the Seas) which was launched this year is 365m long x 48.5m wide and has 20 decks grossing it at just under 250kT. The old Enterprise was a lot smaller.

 

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