Small warships

[Korzon77]

Here's  a question-- some fans have created "small" warships, usually a compact core 100,000-120K ship which mounts a certain amount of Capital weapons but has to skmp on everything else-- the main idea is to get capital weapons out in a small, and (relatively) cheap hull for raiding patroll, and dropship popping purposes.

So here's a question, if you have a 100,000 ton warship that mounts a few cpaital weapons, how scary is that to your average dropship?

[Fallen_Raven]

Define "average dropship". If you mean a Tiamat then a) we have a disagreement on what average means, and b) the Tiamat spends an hour laughing before it mercy kills you.

If you mean a Mule then the Warship's greatest concern would be destroying the Mule before a call went out for reinforcements.

[Korzon77]

Define "average dropship". If you mean a Tiamat then a) we have a disagreement on what average means, and b) the Tiamat spends an hour laughing before it mercy kills you.

If you mean a Mule then the Warship's greatest concern would be destroying the Mule before a call went out for reinforcements.

I'm not certain-- even the Tiamat would have problems with capital weapons, and even a 100,000 tonner might be able to carry enough of a punch to hurt it badly.

[A. Lurker]

Well...I have a 100,000-ton WarShip that mounts a few capital weapons (and indeed no non-capital ones), but that's my very first design ever and probably shows it. Paired NL/45s and White Shark launchers respectively in alternating arcs, so at best you get four lasers and a two-missile salvo pointed at any given single target on the broadside...even taking apart a conveniently motionless DropShip (i.e., what you get if you hand one to the MegaMek bot on the space map) can take a few turns with those, although scoring the occasional crit at ranges over which it can't reply yet is comparatively easy.

Though, to be fair, the Hawk-class corvette is supposed to be more of a light patrol/picket vessel and perhaps convoy escort (along with the two DropShips of its own that it can carry) and not so much a dedicated hunter/killer unit, so it may fall a bit outside the scope of this thread.

[Belisarius]

Yeah, Lurker, that's the trick. Small warships aren't hunter-killers at that point. They are picket ships, escort ships, rapid strike ships, raiders, etc. It's an escort mission wherein the warship provides that touch of firepower and armor to make the average pirate keep his head down, and a suicide option to preserve the escorted ships in the event of a large attack.

[Fireangel]

How scary is a small warship to an average dropship?

Extremely.

A 40-point capital bay (eminently doable on a 100kt ship) will easily doughnut an average dropship (which is decked out in standard [not capital] grade SI and armour).

Even if the dropper survives, it will be so messed up as to be a non-issue.

Even with super-class PWS's (which are FAR from "average dropships"), a well-designed small warship will likely destroy or severely damage one in a single volley. As has been pointed out in other threads; even if the PWS has the firepower to destroy the warship, the single volley from the warship will either destroy the PWS or render its primary arc a moot point in a continuing battle.

Of course, we are talking about warships intended for that purpose (i.e. with capital weapons and appropriate armour); a "compact core transport" is classed in-game as a "warship", but is not equipped for that purpose and should not be very scary to dropships.

This thread[/quote] examines the topic quite well.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Peanut gallery has a question.  How many collars can you put on said little WarShip?  Dragging along a Tiamat or three of your own could turn hilarious for pirate hunts.

[A. Lurker]

Peanut gallery has a question.  How many collars can you put on said little WarShip?  Dragging along a Tiamat or three of your own could turn hilarious for pirate hunts.

One per full 50,000 tons. So in the weight class under discussion, two.

[Fireangel]

One per full 50,000 tons. So in the weight class under discussion, two.

Per 50,000 tons or fraction thereof; a 110kt ship could mount three droppers.

[A. Lurker]

Per 50,000 tons or fraction thereof; a 110kt ship could mount three droppers.

*checks*

Hmmm...yep, looks like that's been functionally changed in the errata. Original book text still says to round down. Okay, 50,000 tons or fraction it is, then.

[Fallen_Raven]

I'm not certain-- even the Tiamat would have problems with capital weapons, and even a 100,000 tonner might be able to carry enough of a punch to hurt it badly.

Depends on how much firepower the Warship mounts, especially how much is tied up in anti-missile and anti-fighter defenses. And don't forget that the Tiamat has a frighteningly effective point defense system that can reduce Capital scale missile effectiveness greatly.

Also consider how the weapons are laid out. Mounting a devestating bay in the fore arc does little good if the Tiamat slips into a side arc, but spreading your firepower across all arcs gives you a very light punch from any single bay (and reduces bracket fire options to boot).

All of this applies to all Dropships to a degree, and PWSs especially. A light Warship has problems mainting the versatility of heavier ships, so you have to accept sacrifices and trade offs that some designs can exploit.

[Korzon77]

Largely the idea is a strike warship-- it gives up flexiblity to mount the maximum possible firepower in say, the nose arc with other arcs being restricted to AMS and defensive weapons.  I don't know about dropship collars, they start upping the cost on something that is largely a warship scale Fast Attack craft, and you're going to lose them.  They probably have a destroyer tender or conventional jumpships in tow, keeping them supplied.

The idea is for something that is powerful enough that it cannot be ignored, but cheap enough that you can field them in hunter killer packs.    they're not, in any way, shape or form "rounded " ships.

[Jackmc]

100 kt is pretty underwhelming in a PWS environment.  At best you're going to get a grand total of four 70 pt bays but you end up with a 2/3 tub who'se nose armor is inferior to that of the Eissensturm.  More realistically 3 bays will net you a 3/5 with slightly better armor and some minor PD or AA mounts.


-Jackmc

[Fireangel]

100 kt is pretty underwhelming in a PWS environment.  At best you're going to get a grand total of four 70 pt bays but you end up with a 2/3 tub who'se nose armor is inferior to that of the Eissensturm.  More realistically 3 bays will net you a 3/5 with slightly better armor and some minor PD or AA mounts.


-Jackmc

What's really needed is a two-bay kiss capable of delivering a total of 60-120 capital points. This can be done fairly economically (tonnage-wise) with three bays.

It's not easy, but it can be done.

[Giovanni Blasini]

You know, for 100,000 ton WarShips, the Nightwing really is a vicious little bastard.

[Korzon77]

It is, isn't it-- you'd have to make a few changes for a strike craft, but not many, and it's tear the heck out of most dropships that aren't the uber PWS types. Having one pop up and say HI! as your deploying you're unions and overlords would be an...unpleasant feeling.

[Giovanni Blasini]

It is, isn't it-- you'd have to make a few changes for a strike craft, but not many, and it's tear the heck out of most dropships that aren't the uber PWS types. Having one pop up and say HI! as your deploying you're unions and overlords would be an...unpleasant feeling.

As of TR3057R, the Nightwing had the highest percentage of total mass devoted to guns of any published WarShip.