Orion or Zues

[mrbooth]

Playing a campaign setting starting in intro tech but upgrading as we go. I have mini for both mechs but am trying to decide the Orion in better in intro tech but I prefer the Zues in latter upgrades.

What one has worked better for everyone.

[(SMD)MadCow]

Are you limited to canon equipment loadouts for the upgrades or will be able to use whatever you want?

[mrbooth]

Trying to stay non custom at the start.

[Ruger]

While the Orion has superior armor and more ammo for its weapons, it also only has 10 single heat sinks in the 3025 models...while adequate or most of its weapons, one or two engine hits cripple it for battle purposes...

The standard Zeus, OTOH, has 17 heat sinks, which is more than enough to fire all of its forward weapons with only movement heat, or gives it a surplus if you leave off either the LRM's or the forward medium laser...The PPC model is not quite as well off with only 19 heat sinks to try and deal with heat from a PPC, large laser, LRM-15 and a pair of medium lasers, but it does hit harder when they are all fired...however, with only 11.5 tons of armor, if slightly more internals, it cannot stand quite as punishment as the Orion...

As to upgrades, once you go to DHS's, things really change, and you can start making some interesting mods...however, unless you go to XL engines (or switch internals to endo-steel), the Orion would not have as much room for changes, unlike the Zeus, which would have an extra 7 tons if you just switch to 10 DHS's, which would also improve its heat dissipation rates...more than enough to increase armor, and play with some extra firepower and/or DHS's...

Ruger

[Sartris]

The Orion requires a little more finesse on the heat curve... the five tons of ammo make it prone to explode when exposed to too much enemy fire. The Zeus encourages a more self-preserving range bracket for engaging.

[Empyrus]

I'd recommend the Zeus. Easier to use, and has some good upgrades (if sticking to canon variants), overall better than what the Orion got IMO.

This recommendation comes from one specific game. I lost an Orion to overheating and an ammo explosion, and my friend's Zeus dominated the match my sitting on a hill and firing anything it saw.

[Sartris]

I'd recommend the Zeus. Easier to use, and has some good upgrades (if sticking to canon variants), overall better than what the Orion got IMO.

This recommendation comes from one specific game. I lost an Orion to overheating and an ammo explosion, and my friend's Zeus dominated the match my sitting on a hill and firing anything it saw.

One game is enough to know the stock 3025 orion is a deathtrap   :))

The Zeus 9S2 is a nice machine... maybe my favorite upgrade and it's available in 3052.

[Empyrus]

I'm just still salty over that one game lol

To be honest, i'm not a big fan of the Orion either way.
Maybe i should try the ON1-VA variant, it has much better cooling, max armor and reasonable close range firepower.

[(SMD)MadCow]

OP, what's the rest of your lance look like? Do the other players have an idea what they're playing?

[CrossfirePilot]

Go with the Zeus.  I think there is also an optional rule where the right fist does 10pts of damage.

[Hellraiser]

OP, what's the rest of your lance look like? Do the other players have an idea what they're playing?

Excellent Question.   I'm asking it as well.

Also, OP what Faction are you playing?

Obviously the Zeus will be more common in the LC (FC), while the Orion is only produced in the FWL in 3025, but was once SL General


For the Zeus, I would say take the AC model, and then when you get access to upgrades, look into a Field Refit level to the original SL Era 5T w/ the ERPPC.
Its basically the same as the 9S but with more ammo, standard lasers & better armor.  It lacks CASE but is in turn a D-Grade so its doable in a bay v/s a Factory.
The L1 PPC model is a bit of a trap, its got less ammo & a bigger punch but when you have to start rotating your weapons fire instead of alpha striking then it sort of balances out the firepower.  The access to special ammo is also nice depending on the rules level & era.


For the Orion, ugh, it looks pretty on paper but the Heat Curve & Ammo make for a bad time if you actually try to BRAWL with the thing which is really what you want to do.
The SRM model is a better brawler & better heat curve but lacks the LRMs for doing anything at range, but, depending on what the rest of your unit looks like it might be a solid option.
For long term upgrades, your going to need a full Factory for all of them but the 2M is NASTY while the 1M is better against Airborne targets & supporting the unit w/ NARC.
So while I strongly favor the 2M, there are reasons to go 1M if it supports the TO&E better.

[mrbooth]

OP, what's the rest of your lance look like? Do the other players have an idea what they're playing?

Awesome, Marauder and Victor.

I mainly play as merc with ties to Davion and Marik.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Thematically I'd take the Orion, with that setup.  Tactically, AWS and MAD give you some intense long range fire with five PPCs; make the Orion the utility infielder backing up them at close range, or helping keep the Victor from being pestered.  I've always had a weird like for the ON1-V model, but the baseline is still a decent bracketeer.  Just remember, pick one target at long or short range, and don't unload a full-up alpha.

[Luciora]

Zeus. It has a blazer version.

[Kit deSummersville]

With the Zeus T, I find that using the LRMs and PPC on approach will soften up the enemy and empty out that ammo bin for getting up close and personal. There you can use the PPC and LL pretty much with impunity, but if you do a lot of running you can always drop on for the medium laser to cool down before things get messy.

[snewsom2997]

I have a preference for the Zeus especially the PPC armed Variant, simply because of the Heat Sinks. In Introtech Games Orions are just walking bombs.

[Dayton3]

I like the Zeus.    Cooler name. 

Okay,  that's all I got.

[garhkal]

Awesome, Marauder and Victor.

I mainly play as merc with ties to Davion and Marik.

Either works well with those 3, but to keep the PPC love, i'd say take the Zeus.

[Rorke]

It's annoying to me, that the fluff in the Revised TRO 3050 made it look
like Davions don't much like the Zeus.  I've always been fond of it, I
used it frequently during the 3050s and it stood up well to Clan mechs.

I'd recommend it to anyone without hesitation.

[abou]

Odd man out, but the Orion is one of my favorite 'mechs. Always served me well. However, I recognize the benefits of the Zeus.

[Getz]

I'm going to swing in for the Orion here.  I like them a lot and find them to be a lot of fun for role playing games because when you're only driving one machine I like to be more of a jack of all trades.

It's also relatively simple to improve the ON1-K without resorting to elaborate refits.  My preferred upgrade is to replace the AC with an LBX and use the weight to fit CASE.  You can also free up a ton and a half by switching to Ferro Fibrous if you think your supply lines will wear it and obviously mounting DHS will have a transformative effect on your heat curve.

[CrossfirePilot]

The Orion always had too much ammo without CASE for my liking.  Give me the Zeus with PPC over the Orion.  Though I do like mixes of SRM4 and LRM15.

[Major Headcase]

 :-X

[The Eagle]

All Orion for me, but that's pure faction bias.

[(SMD)MadCow]

I'm leaning toward Orion myself, the lance already a pair of snipers and the Victor probably doesn't want to babysit 3 just in case something gets close and the Orion offers more flexibility with a better close range package than the Zeus.

[Sartris]

with four players, I'm more interested in self-preservation. a zeus is probably the lowest priority target of that lance.

[CrossfirePilot]

I also vote Zeus.
While it's only a little heavier, it has more available tonnage for upgrades and customization.
Also cooler name.
Also also, the Orion looks like butt, the Zeus looks very cool! You wanna drive cool? Or butt?... 😉

yeah the rule of cool...I vote for it every time.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Well, as a Steiner fan obviously I'm going to be biased toward the Zeus, but even without that, I've always had the Zeus perform well for me every time I've taken it out.  The Orion, meanwhile, has always failed hard.

[Hellraiser]

Awesome, Marauder and Victor.

I mainly play as merc with ties to Davion and Marik.

Follow Up Question?

What models are those?


At this point I'm still thinking Zeus w/ AC to keep you running cool & giving access to alternate ammo.
That lance already has 5 PPCs in it & the PPC model starts to have heat issues in L1 tech.

You have the ability to provide LRM fire but also use the LL at 10ish hexes for medium range triple bombardment.

The Victor is all the close in brawler that lance needs really so I'd stay away from the SRM Orion that I mentioned before.

[Kovax]

I've never really cared for the base model Zeus, it just didn't seem to do enough for the tonnage.

The venerable "Oink" (ON-1K) has served me well in several campaigns.  Granted, there's always the risk of an ammo explosion, but it's well padded by other systems.  In game after game, they've been able to deliver concentrated 10 point AC hits and a volley of LRMs at range for me, then switch from LRM to SRM and ML spam to exploit the damage inflicted on the way in.  It's clearly a "bracket fire" design, and you can't afford the heat buildup from firing the LRMs and MLs/SRMs together, especially since you're going to want to use the AC at any range, any time you get decent odds for a shot.

The armor has usually managed to withstand whatever the opposition threw at it, with the occasional loss of an arm or torso side.  I did have one blow itself sky-high from an ammo explosion, but the same happened to a Zeus on one of the rare occasions where I used one (I normally don't play as Lyrans).  You do have to take reasonable care with the heat curve, however, because 10 single heat sinks is kind of pathetic for something of that tonnage, and rolling for ammo explosions isn't a good idea.

The rest of your group's lance already has sufficient stand-off capability, and the Victor isn't enough to provide a front line by itself without getting bypassed and/or back-shot.  Putting the ON and VTR next to each other a coupe of hexes in front of the MAD and AWS (which have minimum range issues) seems like a winning combination to me.  That makes a total of up to 5 PPCs and an AC/10 dealing nasty 10 point hits, an LRM-15 rack and AC/5 piling on a few extra 5 point damage groups, a 20-point doomsday weapon to make closing with your ranged firepower seem like a bad idea, and a 4-rack of SRMs and several MLs, along with the AC/10, to provide additional close-in firepower if they try it anyway.  Frankly, the standard ON is a better in-fighter than the standard ZEU, and roughly comparable at range, although some ZEU variants seem to be fairly effective.