Author Topic: Mech of the Week: Cougar  (Read 24229 times)

Moonsword

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Mech of the Week: Cougar
« on: 29 July 2011, 11:39:08 »
CLARKSON: By popular request, we're doing this again.  Unfortunately, we decided to turn it over to Captain Slow at first since, well, it's slow.  That turned out to be a mistake, really, and I had to get involved to keep things going.

MAY: The problem is it's not really my 'Mech.  This isn't a refined, elegant weapon like a rapier, a perfect balance of performance, armaments, and survivability.  It's a sledgehammer applied directly to someone's face by a bloke with anger management problems.  The entire design philosophy of the Cougar is about power.  Raw, screaming power shackled to naked ambition and unceasing, unthinking aggression.  It's a very Jeremy sort of OmniMech.

'Mech of the Week Top Gear: Cougar

MAY: Last time, Jeremy took a look at the very biggest of the OmniMechs the Jade Falcons build, the mighty Turkina.  This week, I'm going for something sportier.  And smaller!  At only 35 tons, it's not much more than a third the size.  That's right, I'm talking about the Cougar, a 'Mech born in the fires of war.  It has its origins in that period of time after the Refusal War, when the Jade Falcons were rebuilding after they and the Wolves got done beating on each other in response to some political shenanigans in the Grand Council that saw Morgan Kell having to house and feed his son and a bunch of his friends.  Looking at a touman that was described by Mordecai Aristobolous as "...the worst state it had been in since Operation Klondike[,]" Khan Marthe Pryde, after taking the reins on 2 January 3058, ordered the Scientists to get to work doing what Clan Scientists do: making new guns.  As a pragmatist, Pryde conceded a point to Napoleon and ordered them to start with an existing chassis to save time, something it definitely did when they worked from the Adder.  (Those Spheroids in the audience probably know it as the Puma.)  The results were ready within a few months and the Inner Sphere first met the Cougar on Coventry.  Probably the sort of reception we got in Alabama.  Among the other Clans, it was spotted in Jaguar hands during Operation Bulldog, surprising a few Spheroid MechWarriors who took them for Adders.

CLARKSON: I couldn't tell you why.  It's not like it's got that great big hood on top.  The outlines don't really look much alike.

MAY: Since then, though, it's not really been seen with anyone else.  With the current disorder in the Clan Homeworlds, it's a little unclear what the Cougar's production future looks like since the primary building site was on Ironhold.

CLARKSON: So what you're saying is the factory's a smoking ruin.

MAY: We don't know that!

CLARKSON: No, it could be worse.  The Vipers could be building them.

MAY: ....that's a good point, but idle speculation isn't going to get us anywhere.  Anyway, unlike some Clan modifications, the Cougar stayed the same tonnage as its Adder predecessor, a 35 ton 'Mech at the top end of the light category.  It's wrapped around a modified, Jade Falcon-built version of the Adder's endo-steel skeleton.  If you look carefully, you can see that the Adder limb design is basically intact but the torso arrangement was heavily modified.  The new looks are striking, though, a really beautiful 'Mech that reminds me a bit of a hunting bird.

CLARKSON: Me, I'm thinking of something that doesn't fly, a little more in the way of teeth and talons.  Maybe a velociraptor.

MAY: A lot of effort went into exploiting the key difference between the two 'Mechs: the use of a smaller 175 extra-light engine, limiting you to a little over 50 mph.  While that's only a ton by itself, the smaller engine also needed less gyroscopic support, and the Falcons carefully trimmed a bit of armor off.  Everything up front will stop a Clan large laser hit with a bit to spare but the centreline's not going protect against Clan particle cannon blasts anymore.   It's really my only problem with the 'Mech as a whole.  The armor is still fairly decent but 'fairly decent' light 'Mech armor doesn't really stand up well against Clan weapons.  The point of this exercise, though, was to free up a total of three tons after they deleted the DuPont flamer the Adders insisted on hanging off the 'Mech, 19 tons total.  It's fantastic!  3 tons doesn't sound like much but it makes a world of difference and, with the pod loads the Falcons put together, it turns the Cougar into a terror to other light 'Mechs and many smaller mediums.

CLARKSON: I have to agree with James on this one.  It's very, very powerful, a devastating 'Mech in such a small package.  Honestly, it's like a little Hellbringer, only the Falcons put things together carefully instead of just saying, "Eh, what's this?  Chuck it on there!"

MAY: Against the Germans, err, Lyrans Khan Pryde was also planning to deal with, the combination of Clan weaponry and the extra podspace lets a Cougar match fire with or even out-shoot many classic Inner Sphere heavies and even a few assaults.  This is a real death-or-glory type of 'Mech.  Make a mistake or just have some bad luck and you can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  But if you're better than the other bloke - and Clan warriors always think they are - it's capable of just running right over people.  The primary configuration is a striking case in point on how the combination of extra podspace and Clan weaponry can be useful.  The Clans' large pulse lasers are refined, elegant weapons intended for warriors who feel it's more important to hit the enemy than make a massive lightshow in the hill next to him.  With one in each arm, you're going to hit your target and hit him hard, not just randomly **** about with a hammer not accomplishing anything.

CLARKSON: What're you looking at me for?

MAY: Why do you think?  Anyway, they also put a ten tube LRM launcher in each side torso with two tons of ammunition.  You can use them to relieve a bit of heat and look for places the armor's thinned or you can use them for those times when you really need to hurt someone.  Didn't you say you rather fancied this next one, Jeremy?

CLARKSON: Right!  The fun part about the Cougar A is it's a direct match for an Archer and then some.  The main weapons are a pair of 20-tube LRM launchers with Artemis IV fed by four tons of ammunition, matching the ARC-4M missile for missile but actually able to hit something right in front of it.  Each arm has a medium laser but the Clan ERML very nearly matches a standard Spheroid large for power and does match it for range.  Me, personally, I'd have gone for a third in the head instead of the small pulse laser.

MAY: You mean you'd rather have a gun you won't have the heat load to use most of the time than one you can use to deal with some idiots running at you with a bunch of rifles?

CLARKSON: Or another one if I run out of ammo, James.  But that's not something to worry about on the next model.  Oh, no.  For the Cougar B, the Jade Falcons looked at what worked and what didn't with the Adder Prime.  Two ER PPCs on a 35 tonner?  That's great!  But the heat load is so bad you wind up using one most of the time and hoping the targeting computer compensates for the fact you can't use the other one without suddenly negating the computer and also being unable to outrun an Atlas if you were running at the time.  The Falcons' answer to this was to toss the computer, put six freezers in with the particle cannons, and then stick an ERML in the head as a backup if one of the arms gets shot off.  It's brilliant!

MAY: It's got no sophistication at all.

CLARKSON: It's got a pair of Clan particle cannons and you can tape the trigger down.  It doesn't need sophistication.

MAY: Philistine.  I really prefer the Cougar C for that sort of thing.  It opts for of those old standbys for weapons solutions, the Gauss rifle, sticking it out in the left arm with your bog standard two tons of ammo.  The right balances this with four ERMLs, plus another one in the head.  Personally, I might've traded one for another heat sink, but the kind of damage it can do on an alpha-strike is usually worth the heat woe hangover you get in return if you pick your moment properly.  It's a nicely powerful 'Mech without just being a boring particle cannon boat like the Adder's been doing since 3019.

CLARKSON: No, it's a big gun and medium laser boat.  Would you like chips with your Hunchback, James?

MAY: Oh do shut up!  The Cougar D doesn't really stand out as much when you look at it.  No massive laser battery, no Gauss rifle, no double particle cannon lunacy.  But what it really does out on the battlefield is much more interesting.  An ERLL gives you the ability to reach out and touch someone with the power of a classic Spheroid particle cannon blast.  The other arm has a class 10 Ultra autocannon, capable of firing off two more blows just as heavy if you don't mind the minor chance of the whole thing seizing up like an old man's back or reliably doing it once without little problems like that.  Two tons of ammunition give you a perfectly serviceable endurance.  Backing that up for some weakness-seeking is a pair of 4 tube short-range missile launchers with a ton of ammo.  It's really a very capable little package without making the sort of dramatic noises that draw down the wrath of Zeus or Loki.  And it's affordable, too, if you're looking at your battle value - despite being only 1309 BV, it's really an effective configuration for the price.

CLARKSON: So, then, what we need to give you is give you something low key, on the slow side.  Like an UrbanMech.  Maybe put some SRMs on instead of the spinners we were talking about.  Oh, and unglue the stereo of course.  I've no idea how that could have happened.

[A clip is shown of HAMMOND snickering in the cockpit of an Urbie as CLARKSON eggs him on from the catwalk.]

MAY: Of course you haven't.

CLARKSON: On to the Cougar E, then.  It's a lot like the A, really, except they used some of the Coyotes' new ATMs, a pair of six-tube launchers, one in each arm along with a ton of each type of ammo per launcher.  Then they added a trio of extended-range medium lasers.  Unlike the A, which can trade blows at range with the best of them, this one's really interested in getting up close and personal, burying someone under ATM fire and laser blasts, something it's quite capable of doing with an extra three freezers to keep everything cool, wouldn't you say?

MAY: I'd say so, though I'm not convinced it's really doing any better than the A does most of the time.

CLARKSON: I doubt you'll like this next one, James.  It's a ghastly fellow.  Three medium pulse lasers and a Streak SRM 4 give it some credibility against other lights but this one's not really intended to fight 'Mechs exactly.  Each side torso has a B-pod, capable of blowing swarming battle armor off, and the arms are where the real murder happens.  Some sadistic fellow stuck no less than eight heavy machine guns on, four on each arm, and then tied them into arrays.  A full ton of ammunition, too, which is actually a bit short with this many guns to feed.  Finally, they added jump jets.  It's asymmetric but there's not any other choice on the chassis.  This is a knuckle duster, intended for brutal urban warfare and getting right in someone's face, or for suppressing infantry in the most brutal way possible.

MAY: So it's the sort of thing Minoru Kurita would have loved to have had at Kentares.

CLARKSON: Yes.  I mean, if you've got jump packs, you can theoretically jump on top of it before it can fire, but it's pure murder on infantry, and the storm of fire isn't going to do 'Mechs any good if it manages to corner them.  In open terrain, of course, it's Falconer bait or worse, but that's what the other configurations are for.

MAY: The Cougar G is one of them.  The arms are flippable, something otherwise seen only on the B, and it's definitely intended for long-range fighting but it doesn't really have the same sort of brute force killing power the others do.  More of a skirmisher, really.  The right arm's HAG/20 is a little like an LRM 20 in effect, although you need to watch your minimums.  It'll certainly annoy airborne opponents, though.  The left arm has a pair of five tube LRM launchers.  All three weapons have twelve shots available to them.  An ERLL was mounted in the head to give you some ability to punch holes for the missiles and HAG to exploit.  If you're firing everything, movement heat will slowly build up, but that's easily enough managed by leaving an LRM 5 out of the firing chain.

CLARKSON: The Cougar H is another one of those close-range fighters, although it's got a class 5 Ultra autocannon over on the left arm to make you feel a bit better if you get caught in the open.  The ECM will help against Artemis, too, and if you're fighting someone using C3, well, I'm sure we all know how that works.  The real point is the trio of heavy medium lasers on the opposite arm.  All of it's tied into a targeting computer, too, to counter the accuracy problems heavy lasers have.  Finally, they put on four jump jets to give you some extra speed when you're moving around.  You can try to fence a bit but really, you want to bore straight in and hope the heavy lasers are able to bring someone down quickly.

MAY: But all of that's kind of meaningless until you can feel it stomping around underneath you!

CLARKSON: To test that, we turned to the services of our tame bondsman.  Some say he has HarJel for blood and that he once won a Trial of Position by parking his car.  All we know is he's called the Stig.

MAY: Only this time, we had to round up a bunch of other MechWarriors to help him test things out.  Once again, we're missing footage, but we did get some important hints for those who are driving a Cougar or those of you who have to deal with one.

CLARKSON: First of all, this is a terror in a duel.  It may not survive well in the face of bad luck but if it gets the opportunity, the Cougar can simply dominate other lights, many mediums, and even classic Inner Sphere heavies.  So stick to your guns.  Power will win the day for you.  Powerrrrrrr!  If you're not in a duel, don't play nice.  Go straight for the jugular and get your buddies in their Cougars to do it, too.  And remember to get close only if you really need to or you get a lot of benefit from it.  You don't have a lot of armor to waste, so use those nice, big guns you've got to beat the other guy senseless.

MAY: Now, if you're forced to deal with the sort of hyperaggressive lout that dotes on these little buzzsaws, you've got some options.  If they're focused on short range fighting, don't oblige them.  Most lights are faster, so hold the range open and pound them at a distance.  If they want to stay at range and pound you, do the opposite.  Keep moving to generate at least equal targeting adjustments if you can.  And if you're not in a duel, any Cougars need to be shot to pieces immediately.  They're just too dangerous to be left running around unsupervised.  Nice, solid firepower will help that immensely.  Cougars can dish it out but they simply can't take a beating on the same level.

CLARKSON: Now, we've got some questions from viewers to answer.

Is it effective?

CLARKSON: Oh yes.  It kind of gives me a wonderful feeling of riding on the edge but it's very effective.

Is it reliable?

CLARKSON: Yes, at least until pieces start falling off because someone's shooting at you.  Electronics are solid, targeting's accurate, the radio works just fine.  It even gets the local tunes.  Next.

What if I go to a Shopping Centre and get chased by baddies in a Rotunda?

[A clip is shown of security camera footage somewhere in Britain as a Cougar Prime stomps in through a service entrance used for moving displays for the SharkMart across from the British Hostels.]

MAY: This can't happen.

[A black Rotunda in a 1930s Lincoln convertible body powers up and starts chasing MAY as he thumps through the promenade.]

MAY: Except it just has.  Who writes these things, anyway?

[MAY turns the torso, ignoring the spray of SRMs across the Cougar's torso and the laser blast into the left leg, then carefully lines up a shot on the Rotunda with one of the large pulse lasers.  For a split-second, a few pulses of ruby light connect 'Mech and car, then the Rotunda's hood is penetrated and the fusion engine block slagged, venting in a massive flash of mildly radioactive steam.  The car spins out of control, bouncing off of the Cougar's right leg and caroming into a column nearby as the 'Mech steadies itself.]

MAY: See how easy that was?  ...has anyone seen Hammond?

What if I have to go on an assault drop with the Davion Light Guards?

CLARKSON: Then you're in your element.  You are a god before Valkyries, the master of the GarmsFireballs scurry before you to seek out your prey.

But what about the Cougar X?

HAMMOND: Well, they got me to do this one after Captain Slow got around to helping me out of the Rotunda.  Anyway, the Cougar X series isn't a set of Cougar configurations, it's a series of new Cougar prototypes we found information on but not a lot of detailed background.  They're... well, special is about the best word I can come up with.  They're all built around composite structures, so any internal damage you take is going to make the 'Mech fold like a house of cards, and to top it off, whoever was responsible for these little darlings tore off a lot of the armor on the original to the point that a Gauss rifle hit on the centre torso will actually blow the whole thing up right there.  A classic particle cannon will do in the arms or head and blazers will punch the side torsos out.  A heavy Gauss rifle that hits a side torso will take the whole 'Mech out.  Pondering rear hits from Clan medium lasers has been known to drive Falcon warriors to drink.  The excuse for all of this is the seven improved jump jets they stuffed in, something you can't do in a normal Cougar, sure.  The firepower is... well... two Streak 10s and a pair of ERMLs?

CLARKSON: So it's a really jumpy Cougar A with the weapons cut back.

HAMMOND: I'd say castrated but yes, that's just about it.  Sure, the Streaks are nice, but they don't really make up for anything.  The X2 is apparently an attempt to fix this.  The armor is back up to normal Cougar levels and you've got another jet, bringing you up to match a Spider's ability to jump around.  The weapons are even more anemic overall.  A single ER medium pulse laser in the left arm while the right glories in a Streak LRM 15.  And the X3 is even stranger.  Gone are the jets.  You get a heavy-duty gyro but they left the composite structure there, so the survivability's not any better.  An extra heat sink gets used and then some by an ER large pulse laser, a medium, and a Streak LRM 10.  It's all just... very odd.

CLARKSON: And on that bombshell, good night!



References: The X models were based on the data from Solaris Skunk Werks.  BV and artwork is, as ever, available at the Master Unit List.  CamoSpecs has four miniatures for your viewing pleasure.

Auren

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #1 on: 29 July 2011, 12:38:03 »
Excellent and entertaining article as always, Moonsword.

I do remember on the first Cougar article, it had been posited that a Cougar was a good fight for a Hellbringer. I don't recall the results but it was pretty even.

Demon55

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #2 on: 29 July 2011, 13:25:37 »
Very good article.

Moonsword

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #3 on: 29 July 2011, 14:06:28 »
I do remember on the first Cougar article, it had been posited that a Cougar was a good fight for a Hellbringer. I don't recall the results but it was pretty even.

Given configurations as good as the Cougar's, the Hellbie will probably win 70-80% of the time.  Unfortunately, its best configurations tend to be on par with the Cougar's worst for quality and it, like the Cougar, doesn't have the armor to suck up "Oh, crap!" moments.  So it turns into a race to kill the Cougar with sub-par weapons and poor heat efficiency before it does enough damage to return the favor.

With both of them, your basic rule of thumb is Maxim #13: "Do unto others."

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #4 on: 29 July 2011, 16:21:57 »
Great and entertaining article! You really sold me on a mech I did not really care for.


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Moonsword

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #5 on: 29 July 2011, 16:32:04 »
I didn't like it that much when I started.  The firepower's what really made a believer out of me.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #6 on: 29 July 2011, 16:56:03 »
Very good!  [applause]

Excellent and entertaining article as always, Moonsword.

I do remember on the first Cougar article, it had been posited that a Cougar was a good fight for a Hellbringer. I don't recall the results but it was pretty even.
I can't believe it!  :o
I'd choose the Hellbringer every time over a cougar.
But nevertheless, the Cougar is a good mech.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #7 on: 29 July 2011, 18:15:06 »
Its actually pretty decent for thrashing IS mechs and I'll take it over a Kit Fox any day and a Hellbringer most days.  If not the subpar tiny mini I'd have more of them.  I'm not a fan of lights in general or slow lights in particular but it can tangle with IS mediums and low-end heavies and come out OK, though I tend not to BV balance as much these days when playing Clan v IS.  Its a great mech for bullying IS regulars. 

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #8 on: 29 July 2011, 18:23:51 »
A great write-up there! Not only did it provide great coverage of the mech, but it was a fun read to boot
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #9 on: 29 July 2011, 20:41:53 »
I can't believe it!  :o
I'd choose the Hellbringer every time over a cougar.
But nevertheless, the Cougar is a good mech.

Oh its an ugly match for the Cougar but if the Cougar jock has a nice set of titanium ones, he can certainly give the Hellbringer its namesake.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #10 on: 30 July 2011, 00:00:41 »
It strikes me as sort of an elementary school bully.  Good at pushing around those who are its own size or smaller (except perhaps the Fireball sorts who will do the 3CL thing and run away at speed), but it tends to quail before opponents larger than itself, even those not built to be as singularly vicious and domineering, simply because of the relative fragility inherent in its size.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #11 on: 30 July 2011, 00:12:34 »
Actually, it really isn't as 'cowardly' as that comes off.  The armor starts getting a lot less comfortable against larger opponents but if you're aggressive, lucky, and skilled, you can pull wins out of your hat.  I tested the Cougar against some of the smaller Clan mediums in duels, where it tended to draw even, and ran a lance-on-lance (yes, lance, not Star) against 3025 heavies under the control of Chanman where the Cougars won with two intact 'Mechs to a dead lance of heavies.  You definitely want to hand it to your aggressive, bloodthirsty ristars in scrapes like that, though - anyone else is either too sane or has too little luck and skill to really ride the tiger.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #12 on: 30 July 2011, 00:48:36 »
It strikes me as sort of an elementary school bully.  Good at pushing around those who are its own size or smaller (except perhaps the Fireball sorts who will do the 3CL thing and run away at speed), but it tends to quail before opponents larger than itself, even those not built to be as singularly vicious and domineering, simply because of the relative fragility inherent in its size.

I must admit that is my impression as well.  While it has the guns to lay down some pain against lightweight units, it has the speed of a Timber Wolf which can cause serious problems because there is simply no way a Cougar will survive in a slugging match with the heavyweight champion.  Things get even worse when you realize that there are faster and more agile 'Mechs like the Summoner or Stormcrow that can run it down and beat it to death with their superior armor and firepower, so it will be in serious trouble outside of duels with other light 'Mechs which it can outfight if they are forced to engage.


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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #13 on: 30 July 2011, 02:37:52 »
I must admit that is my impression as well.  While it has the guns to lay down some pain against lightweight units, it has the speed of a Timber Wolf which can cause serious problems because there is simply no way a Cougar will survive in a slugging match with the heavyweight champion.  Things get even worse when you realize that there are faster and more agile 'Mechs like the Summoner or Stormcrow that can run it down and beat it to death with their superior armor and firepower, so it will be in serious trouble outside of duels with other light 'Mechs which it can outfight if they are forced to engage.

Hmm...
Maybe it is just me, but comparing it to the gold standard of medium 'Mechs - the Stormcrow - yes the Cougar is going to get pulped but the same can be said about a multitude of other ' Mechs as well.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #14 on: 30 July 2011, 03:13:37 »
Hmm...
Maybe it is just me, but comparing it to the gold standard of medium 'Mechs - the Stormcrow - yes the Cougar is going to get pulped but the same can be said about a multitude of other ' Mechs as well.

The difference between the Cougar and something like the Viper which will also loose that slugging match is that the Viper has the speed to avoid the larger and better armed Stromcrow.  The Cougar on the other hand is slow enough that it has no way of escaping the Stormcrow, so if the Stormcrow pilot wants to kill the Cougar there is nothing the lighter 'Mech can do about it.  Thus the Cougar fails under my divisions because I group 'Mechs based on speed and it has no hope of standing up to other 5/8 'Mechs like the Timber Wolf.

Now, that is not to say it is useless because it does pack a substantial punch which can be exploited if you play your cards right, but like the Hellbringer it is generally going to attract far more attention than its thin armor can take in large scale actions.


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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #15 on: 30 July 2011, 03:53:00 »
Hmm...
Maybe it is just me, but comparing it to the gold standard of medium 'Mechs - the Stormcrow - yes the Cougar is going to get pulped but the same can be said about a multitude of other ' Mechs as well.

Let me see...compare the Cougar to something that one can take against Assaults and win one-on-one?
That is kind of a bad comparison. It would be like comparing an Kit Fox to a Timber Wolf...
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #16 on: 30 July 2011, 04:15:21 »
No, by all means compare them.  Just take into account that you're getting roughly a 50% hike in BV for the Ryoken.  So, if you're comfortable taking two Ryoken Primes against a trio of Cougar Primes, by all means, compare it like that.

I'd take the Cougars, at that point.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #17 on: 30 July 2011, 04:38:48 »
No, by all means compare them.  Just take into account that you're getting roughly a 50% hike in BV for the Ryoken.  So, if you're comfortable taking two Ryoken Primes against a trio of Cougar Primes, by all means, compare it like that.

I'd take the Cougars, at that point.

And, of course, you would be a coward! Bidding 3 'mechs to take on two?! There is no glory in that!
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #18 on: 30 July 2011, 04:52:40 »
And, of course, you would be a coward! Bidding 3 'mechs to take on two?! There is no glory in that!

A coward?  No, a realist.  My 'Mechs are clearly and demonstrably individually inferior.  Individually glory means nothing if all you garner from your heroics is defeat.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #19 on: 30 July 2011, 07:46:36 »
A coward?  No, a realist.  My 'Mechs are clearly and demonstrably individually inferior.  Individually glory means nothing if all you garner from your heroics is defeat.

Which, of course, means those Warriors were just inferior, and hopefully died in the process.
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

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Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #20 on: 30 July 2011, 08:33:15 »
Which, of course, means those Warriors were just inferior, and hopefully died in the process.

The only inferior warrior in this scenario is the Stormcrow pilot, I mean, seriously he needs a Stormcrow to fight a Cougar. Pathetic doesn't even cover how bad that warrior would be.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #21 on: 30 July 2011, 08:54:08 »
The only inferior warrior in this scenario is the Stormcrow pilot, I mean, seriously he needs a Stormcrow to fight a Cougar. Pathetic doesn't even cover how bad that warrior would be.

See, I figured the Stormcrow bid to defend, and the Cougar was the warrior who won the bid to attack.
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

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Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #22 on: 30 July 2011, 10:08:55 »
See, I figured the Stormcrow bid to defend, and the Cougar was the warrior who won the bid to attack.

Either way, its really getting off track for the MOTW :D



Still back to the MOTW, I have always found Cougar's are decent vs IS opponents while below average against Clans for the reasons already listed. Then again that is pretty much the way Clan Lights work in today's giant robot environment if they don't have liberal amounts of "Go Fast". What saves the Cougar for me is that I don't really use it (Pretty much all Cougars and Adders) in traditional Light Mech jobs, instead have it as simple fire support and Elemental carriers mid battle. 

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #23 on: 30 July 2011, 15:06:30 »
What I like to do with Cougars (When I use them) is use them in the outrider role. They ride flank on the main push because what generally comes from the flanks is something zippy and can't take a hit.

Too bad LPLs are good at swatting fast people who can't take a hit.  ;D

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #24 on: 30 July 2011, 15:11:10 »
See, I figured the Stormcrow bid to defend, and the Cougar was the warrior who won the bid to attack.

Honestly?  I can see a sufficiently gutsy, desperate, and/or crazy warrior trying it.  I don't see it working too well for him but it could pay off.  And besides, when you're seriously talking about throwing a Stormcrow onto the table to stop a light, I don't see where this is anything but a compliment to the light.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #25 on: 30 July 2011, 17:44:53 »
Honestly?  I can see a sufficiently gutsy, desperate, and/or crazy warrior trying it.  I don't see it working too well for him but it could pay off.  And besides, when you're seriously talking about throwing a Stormcrow onto the table to stop a light, I don't see where this is anything but a compliment to the light.

My comment that started it was from the perspective of a free battle where you could temporarily detach the Stormcrow to run down and kill the thin-skinned Cougar so it cannot bring its heavy guns to bear and there is nothing the Cougar can do about it because the larger medium is faster, better armed, and better armored.

The problem I have with the Cougar is fundamentally the fact that I group 'Mechs by speed rather than weight because more than anything else mobility is what defines roll, so under this scheme the Cougar winds up competing with designs like the Timber Wolf with painfully obvious results.


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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #26 on: 30 July 2011, 17:48:28 »
If you're grouping them by weight, you can still ensure it's a moderately fair fight by using BV.  For your Timberwolf, I'll send two whole Cougars at you.  I'd run two Cougars against a Timberwolf, which tells me both that BV is doing its job and that the Cougar is fairly well balanced as a heavy hitting Light 'mech.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #27 on: 30 July 2011, 18:22:13 »
The problem here is that people keep treating the Cougar as something it's not - a general battlefield combatant, particularly for open engagements against Clan opponents not under zell.  Its role is not defined by its mobility, it's defined by the culture and doctrine of the force employing it.  The Cougar is intended for doing two things: Fighting Inner Sphere units, which it does very well, and fighting duels under zellbrigen, which it also does very well.  Where it doesn't work as well is doing something it's not actually intended to do, fight off much larger Clan 'Mechs in non-zell engagements, and even there, it's capable of contributing either weight of fire or a distraction depending on your opponent's priorities and biases.

The fact that you can kill a slow high-end light with a Timber Wolf is really not anything startling to anyone who's familiar with the game.  I don't regard Adders or Kit Foxes as really any more survivable than a Cougar in that sort of an engagement because their lighter armament is more of a headache for the fight than the minimal increase in speed.  Stormcrows are going to have similar experiences but they're going to take more damage.  If you're obliged to use canon configurations, the Cougar is actually going to be better than the others.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #28 on: 30 July 2011, 18:33:10 »
Taking two Cougar Primes against a Timberwolf Prime in MegaMek against my brother (not the bot, my brother is decently versed in tactics), the Cougars won, but it was hardly a resounding victory.  On Cougar left, with a Gyro critted out lying on the ground with most of its weapons left compared to a Timberwolf that went down to a final engine crit when it had only a MPL, an LRM20, and a Machine Gun left.

Considering the BV is very close to even, and the movement profiles are the same, I'd say the Cougar does what it's supposed to do and does it well.  EVEN COMPARING IT TO THE TIMBERWOLF when you balance it the way the game would like you to balance it, it works.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #29 on: 30 July 2011, 18:38:12 »
  If you're obliged to use canon configurations, the Cougar is actually going to be better than the others.

This is why I wish we had more, more recent configurations for the original 3050 omnis. A lot of newer omnis like the Cougar wind up being better, not because of the base chassis is any better, but the configurations are designed by people familiar with clantech. The originals suffer for being designed by people used to playing the IS to do things the IS mechs couldn't - against opponents they should have been fighting for decades, most 3050 omni configs aren't that good.

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