Author Topic: TRO 3145--Federated Suns  (Read 190439 times)

Greywind

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1200 on: 29 June 2013, 07:49:35 »
Now don't go confusing the Davions with the Steiners.

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1201 on: 29 June 2013, 07:51:25 »
Money has never been a problem for Davion. Why waste money on social services when you can spend it on weapons instead?

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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1202 on: 29 June 2013, 11:42:56 »
It really reminds me of all the 3050 mechs that used an XL engine and masseds of SHS when they could've used a standard engine and DHS.  I mean, is running 10 hexes (with the chance of failure, however slight) worth costing 45 million c-bills/unit when you could run 9 with TSM and cost 15 million c-bills/unit?
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

gooseman

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1203 on: 29 June 2013, 12:10:42 »
It really reminds me of all the 3050 mechs that used an XL engine and masseds of SHS when they could've used a standard engine and DHS.  I mean, is running 10 hexes (with the chance of failure, however slight) worth costing 45 million c-bills/unit when you could run 9 with TSM and cost 15 million c-bills/unit?

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Diplominator

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1204 on: 29 June 2013, 12:12:35 »
It really reminds me of all the 3050 mechs that used an XL engine and masseds of SHS when they could've used a standard engine and DHS.  I mean, is running 10 hexes (with the chance of failure, however slight) worth costing 45 million c-bills/unit when you could run 9 with TSM and cost 15 million c-bills/unit?

Yes, and even so I wouldn't be surprised if we get an XXL cost reduction in FM:3145. It's not a crazy new super-experimental thing anymore.

A. Lurker

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1205 on: 29 June 2013, 12:19:36 »
It really reminds me of all the 3050 mechs that used an XL engine and masseds of SHS when they could've used a standard engine and DHS.  I mean, is running 10 hexes (with the chance of failure, however slight) worth costing 45 million c-bills/unit when you could run 9 with TSM and cost 15 million c-bills/unit?

If I really, really need that extra hex right then and there? Sure. Besides, TSM and the heat level(s) needed to get any use out of it have their own downsides, most notably that pesky mandatory to-hit penalty with all my weapons that MASC doesn't saddle me with...

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1206 on: 29 June 2013, 12:34:01 »
If I really, really need that extra hex right then and there? Sure. Besides, TSM and the heat level(s) needed to get any use out of it have their own downsides, most notably that pesky mandatory to-hit penalty with all my weapons that MASC doesn't saddle me with...

Sure, but when that on extra hex of movement also involves being mission-killed by side torso destruction, it doesn't seem worth it to me.  Not to mention whoever designed this thing just gained some powerful enemies in the the Department of the Quartermaster. lol
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

SteveRestless

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1207 on: 29 June 2013, 12:37:29 »
Yes, and even so I wouldn't be surprised if we get an XXL cost reduction in FM:3145. It's not a crazy new super-experimental thing anymore.

I doubt TPTB will go and say "this is what everything costs in this new era" But I have the same theory as you, essentially, that the hefty pricetag for things like the XXL, are an artifact of their rarity and experimental status at introduction, and in a new era where they're mass produced, the cost level would realistically have shifted. Standard fusion engines probably went down a little in price, still valuable though. XL Fusion Engines are probably closer to what standard fusions cost, lights a bit more expensive than that, and XXLs somewhere between what an XL cost and and what the XXL's intro price was.

official confirmation that "No, they're not really that ludicriously expensive anymore, but we're not going to waste time on re-pricing everything in a broken economic system" would be nice.
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wackrabbit

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1208 on: 29 June 2013, 12:47:16 »
Because it is Davion, and they always have the most advanced tech. I mean, that is what they are known for.
Most of the rediscovered Star League Tech was deployed out of NAIS, for example. The Davions were, frankly,
one of the biggest sufferers of "New Toy Syndrome" in the Universe.

During the Clan invasion, The FedCom shared the bulk of the new technologies with the FWL, in exchange for manufacturing capacity the FC didn't have, making the FWL the armorer of the IS while trying to stop the clans. Looking at the maps in the front of the Tech Manual, it is also clear that the other powers were doing a pretty fair job of redeploying advanced technology also.
If you always do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got

Jal Phoenix

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1209 on: 29 June 2013, 14:29:15 »
Sure, but when that on extra hex of movement also involves being mission-killed by side torso destruction, it doesn't seem worth it to me. 

XL or XXL, both equal death to side torso destruction.  The extra heat of XXL is a bigger drawback than that.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1210 on: 29 June 2013, 15:01:15 »
XL or XXL, both equal death to side torso destruction.  The extra heat of XXL is a bigger drawback than that.
Not when they're clantech.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

haesslich

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1211 on: 29 June 2013, 15:01:27 »
We could kill...everyone! :o

Add a company of Grand Titan Vengeance mechs for an escort, and the list includes the battlefield itself, not just what's on it.

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1212 on: 29 June 2013, 15:03:17 »
Is the Vulpes Clan tech?  I don't recall.  Then yes, it would make a difference. 

MrKiasu

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1213 on: 29 June 2013, 15:15:01 »
On the subject of costs, given that the c-bill has fallen through the floor, that XXL engine is dirt cheap in d-bills. :-)

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1214 on: 29 June 2013, 15:24:48 »
Is the Vulpes Clan tech?  I don't recall.  Then yes, it would make a difference.

Mixed tech.  Clan engine and lasers for sure, I'm away from my comp so I'm not sure if there's any other clantech or not.


Speaking of, anybody know how to load a PDF onto an iPhone?  It'd be nice to carry my files around with me.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Wolflord

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1215 on: 29 June 2013, 15:33:26 »
Mixed tech.  Clan engine and lasers for sure, I'm away from my comp so I'm not sure if there's any other clantech or not.


Speaking of, anybody know how to load a PDF onto an iPhone?  It'd be nice to carry my files around with me.

Send the PDF as an email attachment to yourself then open the PDF attachment when you do this take the open in iBooks option (you'll need the iBooks app but its free from the App Store if its not preloaded)

Taurevanime

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1216 on: 29 June 2013, 15:52:32 »
XL or XXL, both equal death to side torso destruction.  The extra heat of XXL is a bigger drawback than that.
The Prey Seeker is really the only unit in this TRO that isn't going to run hot while running and firing all or even just most of it's weapons when it comes to XXL equipped units. The Gunsmith would generate 10 heat doing a running alpha. While the Vulpes would generate 18 on a running alpha with stealth armour active.

Looking at the Vulpes more closely just standing still and firing the two large lasers is going to generate heat 8 points of heat if the stealth armour is active. I am trying to think how one might use the stealth armour most effectively. And it seems that you should keep it active on every turn you aren't firing or only firing one laser or just the RAC/5.

The more I look at the Vulpes the more I like it since it isn't that straightforward in how it could be used more effectively. It would've been very easy to give it enough heatsinks and turn it into a really scary stealth sniper that can fire every turn with impunity, but whoever designed it made something that takes a lot more finesse than that. O0

foxbat

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1217 on: 29 June 2013, 15:54:41 »
Is the Vulpes Clan tech?  I don't recall.  Then yes, it would make a difference.

It is. It's truly a beautiful design, and a good looking one to boot.  O0
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Alexander Knight

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1218 on: 29 June 2013, 16:05:57 »
Not when they're clantech.

Except there are exactly zero Clantech XL engines in TRO 3145: Federated Suns.  'Mechs either have SFE, LFE, IS-tech XLE, IS-tech XXLE, or the Vulpes with its Clantech XXLE.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1219 on: 29 June 2013, 16:08:24 »
It is. It's truly a beautiful design, and a good looking one to boot.  O0
It's a beautiful mech, probably the best looking in the TRO (and there are several good looking mechs in this TRO.  Gunsmith, Black Knight, and Templar III for instance).  But I can't help but feel it'll be this generation's AS7-K.  Certainly useful, but it could've been significantly better if not hamstrung by questionable design choices.


In universe, I mean.  I'm sure the OOC designer had reasons for the choices (s)he made.





Except there are exactly zero Clantech XL engines in TRO 3145: Federated Suns.  'Mechs either have SFE, LFE, IS-tech XLE, IS-tech XXLE, or the Vulpes with its Clantech XXLE.
XXLs are significantly rarer than XLs generally.  I have a hard time believing someone's building clan XXLs and can't build clan XLs.  And that applies whether they're homebuilt or purchases in quantity from the Fishy Foxes.
« Last Edit: 29 June 2013, 16:10:12 by Arkansas Warrior »
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Alexander Knight

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1220 on: 29 June 2013, 16:10:27 »
XXLs are significantly rarer than XLs generally.  I have a hard time believing someone's building clan XXLs and can't build clan XLs.  And that applies whether they're homebuilt or purchases in quantity from the Fishy Foxes.

In 3085, certainly.  In 3145?  Who knows?  The XLE manufacturers may just decide to use LFEs when they want a smaller engine, while the XXLE manufacturers actually have to go Clantech.

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1221 on: 29 June 2013, 16:27:24 »
I doubt TPTB will go and say "this is what everything costs in this new era" But I have the same theory as you, essentially, that the hefty pricetag for things like the XXL, are an artifact of their rarity and experimental status at introduction, and in a new era where they're mass produced, the cost level would realistically have shifted. Standard fusion engines probably went down a little in price, still valuable though. XL Fusion Engines are probably closer to what standard fusions cost, lights a bit more expensive than that, and XXLs somewhere between what an XL cost and and what the XXL's intro price was.

official confirmation that "No, they're not really that ludicriously expensive anymore, but we're not going to waste time on re-pricing everything in a broken economic system" would be nice.

Paul made mention of that whole price thing. Unfortunately I can't seem to quote the post  :-\ It is in there but I don't know that it's official until a writer says it though. At least it's something that's being talked about...
« Last Edit: 29 June 2013, 16:32:22 by Klat »
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SCC

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1222 on: 29 June 2013, 17:51:04 »
You have to realize that the pricing information is just fluff, when they first came out LFEs should have been MORE expensive then XLEs

Klat

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1223 on: 29 June 2013, 18:24:31 »
You have to realize that the pricing information is just fluff, when they first came out LFEs should have been MORE expensive then XLEs

Agreed. At this point I don't think price should really be a factor. This could make it tough for some merc players though as from what I understand C-bills are used in the creation of merc commands.
Light Assault Group - An Orwellian appelation applied by the Draconis Combine to troops haphazardly equipped with whatever expendable equipment was lying around the maintenance yard, for the purpose of throwing their lives away for the greater glory of the Dragon, see also Human Bombs.

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1224 on: 29 June 2013, 20:18:52 »
Except there are exactly zero Clantech XL engines in TRO 3145: Federated Suns.  'Mechs either have SFE, LFE, IS-tech XLE, IS-tech XXLE, or the Vulpes with its Clantech XXLE.

One thing I don't understand Clan XL upgrades would be game changers for almost all IS XL Mechs

The XXL even Clan ones aren't all that interesting to me - new toy syndrome as mentioned

It's more interesting sometimes to make your current toys play further
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1225 on: 06 July 2013, 16:34:21 »
So, I was browsing TechManual the other day, and I noticed something: the Chameleon LPS is supposed to be extinct.  It has no reintroduction date.  But the Scarecrow carries it, and, while it is undoubtedly produced in small quantities, it's still a production design, not some experimental prototype.  Thoughts?
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

ColBosch

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1226 on: 06 July 2013, 16:37:26 »
So, I was browsing TechManual the other day, and I noticed something: the Chameleon LPS is supposed to be extinct.  It has no reintroduction date.  But the Scarecrow carries it, and, while it is undoubtedly produced in small quantities, it's still a production design, not some experimental prototype.  Thoughts?

TechManual only covers up to ~3070. At some point between "then" and "now" it was reintroduced...perhaps even on the Scarecrow.
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Jal Phoenix

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1227 on: 06 July 2013, 17:20:46 »
So, I was browsing TechManual the other day, and I noticed something: the Chameleon LPS is supposed to be extinct.  It has no reintroduction date.  But the Scarecrow carries it, and, while it is undoubtedly produced in small quantities, it's still a production design, not some experimental prototype.  Thoughts?

Reverse engineered from a captured Blakist Exterminator after the Jihad. 

ColBosch

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1228 on: 06 July 2013, 17:23:30 »
Speaking of which, just when are we going to see the original Exterminator? >:(
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #1229 on: 06 July 2013, 17:48:12 »
That could be one hell of an advantage if the Suns starts to make a lot of it.  CLPS basically beats Stealth Armor at its own game.  Half the crits, 6/10ths the heat, no requirement to carry an onboard ECM suite, for the same game effects.  It'd be nice to serve the Capellans some of their own medicine.  But we get enough of the nice tech, if we did start using CLPS in any sort of widespread deployment, I'm sure the boards would see another uptick in "I hate Davion because they get the best of everything" threads, so we're probably better off without it.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

 

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