TRO 3145--Federated Suns

[BrokenMnemonic]

Honestly, once I took a BattleTech map and tried to find Ramen II on it - without success. And because of it and the constant mentions how typical for Davion the Centurion is, I mentally waved my hand with the conclusion that "Ramen" is probably typo for "Raman" in the Federated Suns.

Ramen II's only on the Star League era maps and the FWL/CapCon 1st and 2nd Succession War era maps - if you look at the post-1st SW map in Handbook: House Marik (page 34) Ramen II is one of four worlds the FWL conquered on their border with the CapCon - along with Vanra, Hassad and Carbonis - and which along with Kievanur and Semenyih formed the Duchy of Orloff. It's one of the eighteen or so worlds captured in the middle salient, between the spur leading up to Terra and the push into the Andurien Commonality.

[martian]

Ramen II's only on the Star League era maps and the FWL/CapCon 1st and 2nd Succession War era maps - if you look at the post-1st SW map in Handbook: House Marik (page 34) Ramen II is one of four worlds the FWL conquered on their border with the CapCon - along with Vanra, Hassad and Carbonis - and which along with Kievanur and Semenyih formed the Duchy of Orloff. It's one of the eighteen or so worlds captured in the middle salient, between the spur leading up to Terra and the push into the Andurien Commonality.

Of course I know that now, but the old FASA map had no Ramen II.

[BrokenMnemonic]

Of course I know that now, but the old FASA map had no Ramen II.

My apologies, I was only trying to be helpful.

[martian]

My apologies, I was only trying to be helpful.

That was not personal. As I said, now I know where the planet is.

[jbressel]

Any effect on other armors?

RE lasers get -1 to hit, like pulse lasers, but not as good. They also ignore ALL special armor, laser reflective, hardened, ferro lamellor, etc.

[Scotty]

I'm impressed by your command of the dead, jbressel.

Fun fact: Re-engineered Lasers did not actually get the -1 to hit at the time of the post you're responding to.  That, and the heat, was modified after the original TRO 3145/ER 3145/FM 3145 printings.  Previously they were a wash to hit and the heat was higher (though I genuinely can't remember what it was, that was a long time ago).

[Jal Phoenix]

Funny, I searched out this thread last night and was perusing it. I thought for a moment that I'd accidentally posted in it. Turns out I wasn't the only one. I never found what I was looking for, though.

[MarauderD]

This thread necro is funny to me mostly because of my life.  I started this thread about 9 years ago. 

I was 50 pounds heavier
Had a full head of brown hair
No kids.

I lost the weight, lost the hair, and somehow have 3 kids.  Also, my beard now features white skunk stripes. At least I know how I got the kids?

Ahhh, the ravages of time.

[Paladin1]

How has it been 9 years since TRO 3145 came out?!?

It was only about 15 years ago that the Clans first invaded and TRO3050 came out...

[nckestrel]

It was only about 15 years ago that the Clans first invaded and TRO3050 came out...

About....

[MarauderD]

About....

Talk about feeling even older.  I was 15 years old back in 1990 when I got my [first] copy of TRO 3050.

[BrianDavion]

How has it been 9 years since TRO 3145 came out?!?

It was only about 15 years ago that the Clans first invaded and TRO3050 came out...

longer then that, Blood Legacy came out in '89

[CVB]

[Paladin1]

Talk about feeling even older.  I was 15 years old back in 1990 when I got my [first] copy of TRO 3050.

Honestly, I can't really wrap my head around how long this game has been a part of my life at times.

I got my first copy of TRO3025 back in November of '87 and it's been a constant fixture ever since.

[StCptMara]

How has it been 9 years since TRO 3145 came out?!?

It has been almost 16 years since Total Warfare released, too... and almost 11 years since The Wars of Reaving.
It has been a long time in limbo...glad things are finally moving forward again!

[Decoy]

So, how have the offerings in TRO 3145 Davion aged for you? I find that I want to push most of the Davion specific 'mechs (the exceptions being the Scarecrow and the Antlion) into the "Extinct" pile in the MUL and never look back. All the rest of it are "Fine."  Not something I'm not going to avoid, but nothing I've ever really been fired up about. The Scarecrow and the Ant Lion are exceptions. Assign the Scarecrow to special forces to do Not Nice Things (TM). Assign the Ant Lion to support conventional forces and expect Not Nice Things (TM) to happen to them.

The Ant Lion is the perfect example of a 'mech that SHOULD be piloted by someone from a Training Battalion. A former Harvester Ant pilot proud to serve his nation, no matter how would probably love to pilot an Ant Lion. The Military families of the FedSuns? Not so much. I feel there's a story in the psychology of Battlemechs with the Ant Lion that's never getting told. I keep imagining the Ant Lion pilot as someone being punished because the Ant Lion...isn't the typical battlemech.

Any rate, quick version. If it's on the general list or not a battlemech, it's fine. (probably). If it's not, it should probably disappear from the universe.

[Templar87]

So, how have the offerings in TRO 3145 Davion aged for you?

For the most part, they feel kind of incoherent, without any kind of idea of how they fit together or just what the AFFS wanted out of them. Which does make sense for the Republic-era AFFS, with it being a service in flux and with little in the way of a coherent mission thanks to Yvonne and Harrison having no idea what they wanted the AFFS to actually do, but it means that a lot of them feel like they don't have a place so much as being wedged in with all the grace and subtlety of a toddler forcing a square peg into a round hole. The Antlion, Atlas III and to some extent the Destrier and RSB's array of Black Knights are exceptions, but overall, little feeling of any coherent design philosophy (unlike the Rec Guides, where there's a clear intent of Hi-Lo mix in AFFS units).


(and I will be very happy if the idiotic Scarecrow fluff is never mentioned again. Ever)

[MarauderD]

Used an Atlas III recently, definitely enjoy it. Have used Gunsmiths, Black Knights and had fun with them as well.  I’d say they have aged pretty well.

[VensersRevenge]

(and I will be very happy if the idiotic Scarecrow fluff is never mentioned again. Ever)

Agreed. Dumbest 'Mech in existence with some of the worst fluff in the game outside of 2010's BLP books.

[Templar87]

Agreed. Dumbest 'Mech in existence with some of the worst fluff in the game outside of 2010's BLP books.

The 'Mech itself is acceptable - it makes design decisions that I wouldn't, and it clearly has issues in how it's supposed to work , but I don't mind that overall; not every 'Mech can be as well-designed as the Watchman.


But, the fluff is utterly wretched, and a very bad try being "topical" (at least, I think that's what the idea was).

[SteelRaven]

To me, I think people mental image of the mech is skewed. Everyone posted comically of a loan Scarecrow gunning down a conveyor belt of solders that couldn't see the damn thing. It was a joke people then took seriously as there is next to no narrative about the machine outside of 1.) kill count and 2.) reaction. 

In reality, the mech is built to operate like the Firestarter only with MGs. The stealth is for the small machine to avoid other bigger mechs, not sneak up on infantry like a 2 story ghost everyone joke about. Those high kill numbers probably included actively hunting down support personnel, APCs, ect behind the lines during a ongoing battle thus that outrage as no one likes to see MASH truck riddled with bullet holes but it's a very real thing you find in the history books.   

But yeah, that also why the Firestarted exist and continues to be built. Prodigy joke goes here (might be considered bad taste for me to make a Covered Wagon reference) 

[Jal Phoenix]

The Chameleon LPS works against infantry. It is literally the Predator's cloak ported into Battletech, so the ghost joke is surprisingly accurate. The Scarecrow is intended to be used solely against soft targets, be that enemy infantry, support personnel, or the unfortunate non-combatant. If you're using it against other 'Mechs, than you're doing it wrong.

[VensersRevenge]

It's a hideously expensive infantry killer that serves no practical purpose except to make the Federated Suns look bad that was inexplicably made on the orders of Harrison Davion, who for literally everything else was portrayed as overly idealistic and pacifistic. If it was made by Caleb or the Haseks it would be swallowable, but as it is the fluff is insultingly stupid.

[Liam's Ghost]

longer then that, Blood Legacy came out in '89

Yeah, but that was only like ten years ago right?

.....

Right?

It's a hideously expensive infantry killer that serves no practical purpose except to make the Federated Suns look bad that was inexplicably made on the orders of Harrison Davion, who for literally everything else was portrayed as overly idealistic and pacifistic. If it was made by Caleb or the Haseks it would be swallowable, but as it is the fluff is insultingly stupid.

I wouldn't say hideously expensive. It's up there, but it's no Vulpes or probably even a Gunsmith in terms of expensive.

And I don't think it's meant to make the Davions look bad. The fluff feels very [DELETED DUE TO RULE 4]. The point doesn't seem to be that the Scarecrow is evil, but that there's political momentum in certain groups saying loudly that it is evil and roping in the well meaning but naive to make sure it's seen as such.

It is, however, a very hamfisted attempt at that. Almost as bad as Michael Stackpole putting Katherine on the throne, shrugging his shoulders, and saying "opinion poles, amirite?"

[SteelRaven]

... again, the Firestarter exist! I fail to see how the Scarecrow makes anyone look worst when the first 3145 TRO had mercenaries burning down villages.

Expensive, arguably yes but so is the Raven II scout mech. Both play a niche, not everyone is going to like paying that much BV for that niche. That said; both are better than the Exterminator. 

Yeah, but that was only like ten years ago right?

... stop, just stop. Your making the rest of us look bad.

[Ruger]

The Chameleon LPS works against infantry. It is literally the Predator's cloak ported into Battletech, so the ghost joke is surprisingly accurate. The Scarecrow is intended to be used solely against soft targets, be that enemy infantry, support personnel, or the unfortunate non-combatant. If you're using it against other 'Mechs, than you're doing it wrong.

But it also has three clantech ER medium lasers and two IS medium pulse lasers. Granted, the heat sinks are somewhat lacking to use all of this effectively for long, but that’s still almost the equivalent of three IS large lasers to go with the two pulse lasers, meaning it can pump out some serious firepower for its size even without the AI guns.

Ruger

[BrianDavion]

It's a hideously expensive infantry killer that serves no practical purpose except to make the Federated Suns look bad that was inexplicably made on the orders of Harrison Davion, who for literally everything else was portrayed as overly idealistic and pacifistic. If it was made by Caleb or the Haseks it would be swallowable, but as it is the fluff is insultingly stupid.

I don't get why dedicated anti-infantry mechs should be controversal, a number already exist

[VensersRevenge]

Because those weren't designed by a faction that was explicitly using less 'Mechs, using Clantech and bleeding edge Inner Sphere tech, on the orders of a pacifistic First Prince.

[Jellico]

For the most part, they feel kind of incoherent, without any kind of idea of how they fit together or just what the AFFS wanted out of them.

I am going to regret this.

It is probably even mentioned earlier in the thread.

The Federated Suns entered the TRO cycle with fewer glaring holes in its line-up than nearly any other faction. The Mechs in TRO3145/3150 aren't meant to be used together. They are meant to be used with the veterans from TRO3085 and even TRO3067.

[five_corparty]

The Scarecrow is intended to be used solely against soft targets, be that enemy infantry, support personnel, or the unfortunate non-combatant. If you're using it against other 'Mechs, than you're doing it wrong.

Every so often our gaming group will play "eff your buddy" where everyone brings one mech of every class, and then we roll off and draw mechs from the pile from lightest to heaviest.

the running joke, as you may have guessed, is everyone brings the WORST of the WORST.  NOONE is going to just -give- another player a hellstar or a Kingfisher, oh, no no no no, my friend, have fun with a 3025 Charger!

So, yeahhhh... my buddy gets his sheet and says WHO GAVE ME A SCARECROW???  >:D >:D

we don't play those games often, but, man, are they fun.  >:D ;D >:D ;D