Author Topic: Just played my first game, and I have questions  (Read 7457 times)

Sartris

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #30 on: 28 February 2019, 10:04:05 »
It’s based on the BMM rather than TW so the wording is different but the rules are consistent with all TW-derived boxes going back to 2007

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Matti

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #31 on: 28 February 2019, 15:03:38 »
It’s based on the BMM rather than TW so the wording is different but the rules are consistent with all TW-derived boxes going back to 2007
But it is full set of rules for 'Mechs in TRO3025, right? Not simplified Quick-Start Rules, right?
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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #32 on: 28 February 2019, 15:19:21 »
But it is full set of rules for 'Mechs in TRO3025, right? Not simplified Quick-Start Rules, right?

The Beginner Box has the simplified rules, but the AGoAC has the same breadth of rules the intro boxes have had.
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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #33 on: 28 February 2019, 15:20:57 »
It's been rewritten and reorganized compared to the previous box set, but other than errata changes is the same rules.

If I had more time I'd do up a comparison, but I'm afraid I just don't.
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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #34 on: 01 March 2019, 16:20:52 »
This will probably be my last question before me and my friend play our 2nd game of Battletech tomorrow. Is one map sheet big enough for a 2 on 2 game? I was thinking of waiting for our 3rd game before introducing elevation and water rules, which means using the mapsheet that comes with the beginner box, and it only comes with 1.

Sartris

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #35 on: 01 March 2019, 17:33:43 »
you can play a 1 map 2 vs 2 game, sure. the tactics change as you increase map size. on small maps, units that rely on range don't have a ton of room to back up and will easily get cornered. the bigger the map gets, the more a liability slow speed and short weapon ranges become.

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AdmiralObvious

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #36 on: 01 March 2019, 20:55:51 »
I would recommend a few map sheets. If only for the fact that weapon ranges are pretty much nonexistent otherwise, with the exception of 3 tile weapons.

Ideally, you should have a 30x30 board if possible, but you can work with less, or more. Depends on how you want to play.

A bigger board does usually mean a slightly longer game though.

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #37 on: 01 March 2019, 21:36:58 »
Lots of highly articulate new players lately.  Welcome to BT and good luck in your games!
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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #38 on: 02 March 2019, 05:49:52 »
you can play a 1 map 2 vs 2 game, sure. the tactics change as you increase map size. on small maps, units that rely on range don't have a ton of room to back up and will easily get cornered. the bigger the map gets, the more a liability slow speed and short weapon ranges become.
I would recommend a few map sheets. If only for the fact that weapon ranges are pretty much nonexistent otherwise, with the exception of 3 tile weapons.

Ideally, you should have a 30x30 board if possible, but you can work with less, or more. Depends on how you want to play.

A bigger board does usually mean a slightly longer game though.

Hmm. Now I can't decide between playing on a beginner box map and keeping it simple but small, or playing on 2 maps (meaning I'd have to introduce elevation and water rules) and having longer ranges to play with. Even in our previous 1 on 1 game, we ended up duking it out all over the small map.

This would be easier if my opponent would actually read his own copy of the rulebook so we could learn the game TOGETHER, instead of me reading the rules on my own and then trying to teach him a game that I'm just learning to play myself.  ::)  I asked him to at least skim over parts of the rules that were still fuzzy to him after the first game, but instead I see him on Steam currently playing Mechwarrior Online... sigh.

Lots of highly articulate new players lately.  Welcome to BT and good luck in your games!
Thank you for the welcome and the compliment! I don't think I've ever been called "articulate" before.  :P

If there seems to be an influx of new players recently, it's probably because there's not just two new boxes for CBT, but the videogames are being pushed pretty hard right now too. My friend won't shut up about Mechwarrior Online and his anticipation for Mechwarrior 5. Hearing him talk about these games reminded me of playing the Battletech CCG as a kid, remembering that it seemed like a pretty cool universe, and that there was more to it than a CCG, videogames, and a cheesy cartoon. So I looked into CBT, found that there were new and highly-anticipated boxed sets coming in less than a week, and jumped on that. I read an article somewhere saying that 2018 was supposed to be "the year of Battletech", with each different kind of game helping to promote the others. I'm sure the scenario between me and my friend here was EXACTLY the kind of thing the marketing department was hoping for.

Sartris

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #39 on: 02 March 2019, 12:03:08 »
I’d say right now learning the rules is the most important piece. Small maps = more shooting faster so that’s an ok way to go

Optimal for normal gameplay isn’t always the same as optimal for learning

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #40 on: 02 March 2019, 13:56:21 »
This will probably be my last question before me and my friend play our 2nd game of Battletech tomorrow. Is one map sheet big enough for a 2 on 2 game? I was thinking of waiting for our 3rd game before introducing elevation and water rules, which means using the mapsheet that comes with the beginner box, and it only comes with 1.


If one of those 'Mechs is going to be the Griffin, one map is going to screw it over. Especially the open terrain from the Beginner Box. It will be quite easy for it's opponents to get inside it's minimum range.
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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #41 on: 02 March 2019, 14:04:54 »

If one of those 'Mechs is going to be the Griffin, one map is going to screw it over. Especially the open terrain from the Beginner Box. It will be quite easy for it's opponents to get inside it's minimum range.

As Sartris was saying: learning things the hard way isn't necessarily a bad thing. You'll never learn how to use a Griffin quite like if you suffer through having an opponent up in its grill.

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #42 on: 02 March 2019, 15:09:30 »
The beginner box comes with 2 different griffin variants and one is the l with arge and medium lasers so you could choose to use that one on a smaller map.

AdmiralObvious

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #43 on: 02 March 2019, 18:01:09 »
You're going to have to learn elevations and water eventually. It's not incredibly difficult. If there's 2 height above the ground level of your 'Mech, line of sight is blocked. If they're parked behind a 1 height hill, they have partial cover, and you can only hit above the legs. Same holds true for 1 depth water that they stand in. Playing with a Griffin on a small map will be a challenge, but it is a bit of a fun experience to pull off successfully for the first time.

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #44 on: 13 April 2019, 22:42:42 »
First thing's first, I apologize profusely for abandoning my own topic for so long! Rest assured though, I'm still quite interested in the game, and I'm still wanting to chat about it with all you more experienced folks.

It was over a month ago now, but I did in fact play that 2nd game with that friend. We decided to use 2 map sheets, and since we both own a copy of AGoAC, we decided to use the same map sheet on both sides, one from his box and one from mine, to make for perfectly balanced terrain. That way, if he spilled his beer, he'd be more likely to ruin his own map sheet than mine, and vice versa!

This means that we did introduce elevation rules this time around. It went well for the most part, but there was one situation where line of sight wasn't clear. I wish I took a photo, because my memory of exactly what went down is unclear, but basically, my opponent's mech was up on lv2 terrain, firing at my mech on lv0 terrain, but he wasn't "at the edge of the cliff". He was at least 2 hexes from the edge. So we weren't sure if his mech's line of sight would be blocked by the cliff or not.

We opted for a 2 on 2 scenario very similar to the one suggested by Liam's Ghost, the only difference being that both mechs on one side needed to be destroyed to end the game, instead of just one as suggested. I'm glad we chose that variant, because I made the mistake of leaving my Locust in the open for a turn! It went from perfect health to completely destroyed in one round of shooting from both of my opponent's mechs, and from sheer damage too, no ammo explosions required. Lesson learned! Thankfully, he later made the mistake of allowing my lonely Wolverine to maneuver behind his Shadow Hawk. I landed a lucky crit on his gyroscope, his Shadow Hawk fell, and I then proceeded to recreate the famous scene from American History X, turning the game in my favour. I thought I was gonna lose after losing my Locust so early, but I ended up winning in the end.

I suspect we did PSRs incorrectly though. I'll have to review the rules on those more thoroughly before our next game next weekend.

Again, I'm sorry for abandoning my topic here for so long, but I've been busy preparing for the next game! I'm taking this somewhat seriously. Those last two games, I was paranoid about damaging those flimsy paper map sheets, so I went to one of the local copy shops, and got full-size full-colour copies of all 6 of my map sheets on Duracopy. So, instead of 3 double sided map sheets on fragile paper, I have 6 single sided map sheets on a nice waterproof (beerproof) material that doesn't rip easily, and lays flat even after being rolled up in a tube for over a month. I'm sure there was a more economical option, but screw it, I'm really happy with these copies and look forward to using them in my next game, and keeping my paper master copies safely tucked away in the box. Even the texture feels nicer when sliding my minis around on it!

In both of my previous games, there were tricky line of sight situations that were hard to judge. Is the corner of that woods hex impeding line of sight, or isn't it? So I picked up a laser level! Specifically, the The Army Painter Target Lock. I'm pretty happy with this thing, and look forward to busting it out when the inevitable LOS issue turns up in our next game.

This friend of mine that I've been playing with is actually a coworker. An older guy that we work with apparently used to be into the game in his younger years. So, upon hearing us talk about Battletech at work, he loaned me his Battletech Technical Readout 2750. I've only skimmed through it so far, but it's very cool indeed! In fact, so far I'm really loving the Battletech lore! Holy ****ing shit, there is a ****-ton of it! Far too much for me to truly grasp at this point. But I've been putting youtube lore videos on in the background while I do housework etc. I think it's amazing that the mechs themselves, while being the obvious focal point of the lore and games, are literally the most fantastical part of the lore, while most everything else is actually somewhat believable and realistic, at least compared to other popular sci-fi universes like Star Wars, Star Trek, and WH40K. I like that there are no sentient alien races, that humanity is it's own worst enemy. I like that we still squabble over stupid **** like race and religion, as well as somewhat-less-stupid squabbles over territory and resources. I like that these religions, apart from the Word Of Blake, are the same dumbassed religions from our time, as depressing as it is. And it's a more realistic kind of depressing than the grimdark setting of 40k. I like its focus on politics, and how the lore is told as though it's the future of our own timeline. I like the story of the Cameron dynasty, and the Amaris wars. I especially like that one of the most important battles of Battletech's early history took place on Vancouver Island, my home, and that the nearby Puget Sound was the location of the capital of the Star League. I'm probably getting details wrong, as there is just so much to learn, but I'm definitely interested in the lore and looking forward to diving deeper.

This post is practically turning into an essay, so I'll keep my last few questions brief.

I plan on introducing more people to the game. What is a good, simple, balanced 1 on 1 scenario that uses the minis (not the cardboard mech tokens) and maps that come with the Beginners Box and AGoAC, but uses the full rules as opposed to the beginner rules? As I detailed in my very first post, me and my friend did the Wolverine vs Griffon scenario from the Beginners Box using the full ruleset, but as others in this topic have stated, the Griffon is at a disadvantage. That might explain why I lost that first game. Can you give suggestions for a better scenario than the one from the Beginners Box?

My Catapault mini has a fault. The missile launchers on it's shoulders are not level. How do I go about getting a replacement? I have my original receipt. I know it can be fixed with some modelling know-how, but I'm not so good at that kind of thing, and I'd love to get a 2nd Catapault if I can. I could just paint this one to look like the discrepancy is caused by battle damage, but I'd like a normal one as well.

Speaking of painting, I'm no artist, but I might eventually want to paint these minis. As a kid in my early teens, I had some interest in miniatures games, so I know a BIT about painting, but I was never actually good at it. I just slapped some colour on my archers and my space marines so they'd at least look a little better than grey plastic, but considering this game involves massive robots that are probably mostly one colour anyways, simply slapping some colour on it is probably not good enough. What is the absolute easiest way to make them not look like complete **** and doesn't require skill or talent? And far more importantly, what colours do I paint them? I've put some time into learning about the lore, but I still have no idea what faction I should go with, as I don't know how that will limit my mech selection, among other considerations. Perhaps I should just use a custom colour scheme, call them mercenaries or something, and make my own backstory, altering that backstory as I learn more about the lore to make them fit in better with that lore? Would that give me more mech options? I'm a little lost to be honest. Though, to also be honest, I'm not sure I will ever get around to painting them, so don't put too much effort into your reply on this matter. At least the idea of painting 4-10 mechs is a whole lot less daunting than the idea of painting that goblin army that's been sitting in my closet for years...

Sorry about the sloppy nature of this post. I ought to edit it to make it more readable, organized, and succinct, but I've spent too much of my Saturday on it already. However, I value any input that I can get from you Battletech veterans.

Syzyx

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #45 on: 14 April 2019, 04:32:26 »
As for a simple, balanced, intro scenario I'd recommend a 2 on 2 matchup with both sides having the same two mechs. Preferably mediums for a bit of durability and avoiding annoying target movement modifiers at first. Like Wolverine and Shadow Hawk vs same.

As for the issue with your Catapult: customerservice@catalystgamelabs.com
Email, wait a bit. They are slow but I have never had an issue that wasn't addressed in full.

For colours/factions, don't sweat it. Until you get into the Clan Invasion or the Jihad everybody gets everything. So paint all your stuff up in your favorite colour and then work out what unit you like in that scheme.

Like red? The Draconis Combine! Hate space samurai but still like red? The Robinson Rangers of the Federated Suns are right there for you! The BattleTech universe is so established and nuanced that you can find anything you want with only a little finagling.

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Daryk

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #46 on: 14 April 2019, 07:09:12 »
One other piece of good news for you: two more posts, and you won't have to prove you're human anymore...  ^-^

RoundTop

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #47 on: 14 April 2019, 09:31:37 »
Good news!  Your catapult isn't broken. This is a common issue in plastics that are pre - assembled and you can fix it in about 5 minutes.

Supplies:
Two bowls, one able to handle hot water
Kettle (or saucepan)
Paper towel
Tweezers (optional)

Here you go:
#1: filled one bowl with cold water, lay out your paper towel beside it
#2: boil water
#3: put boiling water in second bowl (about 1" deep) (you can just do this in a saucepan if you don't have a Kettle, but I recommend the bowl)
#4: hold catapult by the base and hold the bent parts in the water for about 30s.
#5: pull it out and gently bend the launches to level. Once you have it where you are happy
#6: dip it into cold water for 30s. This sets the plastic again.
#7: dry and let cool completely

Tweezers can be used to move the pieces if you find it too hot.

Old hobby trick for when this happens
 The plastic can over time take a shape from the box, and this allows the plastic to reset (also works great for if it was assembled slightly askew.)

There, saved you a few weeks of waiting.
Note: mold issues where it is missing plastic will need a replacement.
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Kovax

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #48 on: 15 April 2019, 09:00:02 »
The line of sight issue earlier involved a unit 2 levels higher firing on a unit NOT adjacent to a 2 level dead zone.  There was line of sight.  If the target had been adjacent to the 2 level cliff, it could have hugged the cliff face and been in complete cover, but one hex away from the cover and it's a clear shot.  There are optional rules for line of sight and partial cover, but they're a bit too complex in a beginner game, and probably too complex for any "casual" game, except between hard-core rules lawyers.

Basically, BV2 is the standard balancing mechanism between asymmetrical forces and most tournaments, but does not account for the suitability of a unit for the terrain it's being used in.  Putting a 'Mech with long-range weapons in a phone booth sized battlefield makes its high point value ranged weapons ineffective.  Classic example would be a Hunchback against a Griffin on a single map sheet, where the Griffin will have serious difficulty maintaining enough range to avoid minimum range penalties, and usually lose badly.  Give it a 2x2 mapsheet battlefield or larger, and it has the potential to demolish the Hunchback without taking a point of damage in return.  BV doesn't reflect that.

Tonnage, C-Bill costs, die rolls on random assignment tables (see Xotl's RATs), and other balancing mechanisms all have their advantages and disadvantages in certain situations.  Other balancing techniques involve picking out a bunch of "similarly effective" units, and then randomly choosing from the pile, or having the first player create two forces, and the second player then gets to pick which of the two forces he prefers to run, making it beneficial for the first player to keep the sides as equal as possible.  Many scenarios are set up with asymmetrical forces but asymmetrical victory conditions, so the more powerful side is hard-pressed to achieve its objectives in time, or without failing some other condition.  There is no "standard" way to balance a game.

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #49 on: 19 April 2019, 04:04:58 »
As for a simple, balanced, intro scenario I'd recommend a 2 on 2 matchup with both sides having the same two mechs. Preferably mediums for a bit of durability and avoiding annoying target movement modifiers at first. Like Wolverine and Shadow Hawk vs same.
For the sake of keeping it short and simple, I'd like to stick to 1v1 on one mapsheet, and for the sake of variety, have two different-but-relatively-well-matched mechs fighting each other. Something similar to the scenario from the Beginners Box, but more balanced. Also, the only mini that I have a duplicate of is the Wolverine, since it comes in both boxes, and I'd like to avoid resorting to the cardboard mech tokens.

Good news!  Your catapult isn't broken.
As for the issue with your Catapult: customerservice@catalystgamelabs.com
Yeah, my opponent used the hot water trick to fix his Catapault, and it looks pretty nice. Despite the simplicity of it, knowing myself I'd find a way to botch it. Is there a risk of accidentally warping the missile launcher, or losing detail? The antenna on my Locust is bent a bit as well, maybe I'll practice the hot water trick on that beforehand. I'll try calling that number too, see if I can't get a replacement Catapault as well. After all, two Catapaults are better than one!

The line of sight issue earlier involved a unit 2 levels higher firing on a unit NOT adjacent to a 2 level dead zone.  There was line of sight.  If the target had been adjacent to the 2 level cliff, it could have hugged the cliff face and been in complete cover, but one hex away from the cover and it's a clear shot.  There are optional rules for line of sight and partial cover, but they're a bit too complex in a beginner game, and probably too complex for any "casual" game, except between hard-core rules lawyers.

Ok, so line of sight in Battletech is actually pretty straightforward then. Realistically, I don't think the mechs would have had line of sight with each other if the terrain was 3D and we were using 40K LOS rules. I think the mech on lv2 wouldn't have been able to see it's target over the cliff, but it seems like we just ignore this for the sake of keeping it simple on a 2D map. Works for me.

This Saturday, we'll be heading to our local board game cafe to play our 3rd game. We'll be playing the first scenario from the AGoAC box, our first lance vs lance game. Same forces on both sides. I'm looking forward to playing on my new map sheets. Thanks for the advice, and wish me luck!

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Re: Just played my first game, and I have questions
« Reply #50 on: 19 April 2019, 06:27:30 »
First thing's first, I apologize profusely for abandoning my own topic for so long! Rest assured though, I'm still quite interested in the game, and I'm still wanting to chat about it with all you more experienced folks.

No need to apologize for this. You don't owe us anything - I'm just happy to see that you're getting into the game and enjoying it.

 

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