3025 lance

[Atlas3060]

The Griffin and Valk are lacking in short range firepower but the Valk shouldn't be tearing it up in short range anyhow if you want to keep it.

The Griffin can always disengage it's field inhibitor and hot load its LRM's if it really finds itself in a knife fight.

Best part about my lance is super common parts. All those Grasshopper lovers would be screwed if I was GM when it came time to refit and repair. Oh, and the 5N isn't a 3025 variant even if it only uses level 1 tech. Suckers are stuck with the 5H.

"Super common parts"? sure if the GM agrees with that idea.  They might allow you to have parts but you still get modifier penalties because they were second hand parts used by countless other pilots.
And yes the 5N is not in RS 3039, but rather the Upgrades book but the TRO has stated that the Grasshopper was so loved and jury tinkered with that many small time variants exist.  Depending on the GM one could use the 5N for a special character while the other pilots "are stuck" with the 5H (which is a nice design itself)

Ultimately though this thread is thrown out the window when we bring in the argument of how someone GMs.

[Sigma]

Well there's all sorts of fun stuff you can make out of intro tech. But if someone says they want a Hammerhands in 3025 then there's baggage that comes with that. Pointing out that the 5N is not a 3025 variant is just pointing out the elephant in the room. How many people picked it when it's supposed to be from later? Rule #1 applies as always but if we're talking canon then the 5N does not exist at that time. This is 3025 not 3039 anyhow, lots of discoveries and other craziness in the in-between. The OP wasn't asking for customs and frankenmechs. Otherwise, what's keeping you guys from picking things like the BH Marauder?


To address parts.

Griffin
One of the 55 ton trio. Produced in absolutely massive quantities since the Age of War

Dervish
A medium produced in great quantities since the Age of War.

Valk
One of the most produced non-bug lights behind the Jenner, the most recent of the lance designs but cranked out at more than a battalion per year.

Thud
Another tough as nails machine produced in great quantities since the Age of War


Continuous large-scale production at multiple plants for over 500 years is definitely a big argument in favor of available spare parts, used and factory fresh. Much more so than lighter production of another machine over 240 years.

I love Grasshoppers. They are awesome mechs. But baggage man, baggage. Pickup is way different than campaign. Driving a Grasshopper is almost like driving an Assassin. Need some really good jury riggers in your tech crew. That aspect should be out in the open for folks.

[Paladin1]

For a general purpose 3025 era lance, I'd take the HMML arrangement tricked out like this.

TDR-5S Thunderbolt - Good mix of weapons, dripping with armor and even has AP capabilities.  SRMs give it a limited anti-vehicle aspect as well.
CN9-A Centurion - Solid weapons, respectable speed and armor.  It doesn't really have any anti-vehicle or AP capabilities, but it supports the Thunderbolt well and is fairly common.
HBK-4G Hunchback - Bubble o'Doom anyone?
FS9-H Firestarter - I've always had a weak spot for the Firestarter since it's a fairly decent scout and absolute death on conventional units.  Armor is better than the bug series and most of the other lights available in 3025.  Firepower isn't great, but it's decent.

[willydstyle]

I pretty much only play Total Warfare rules, so I don't know what "disengaging the field limiter and hot-loading LRMs" means game-mechanics wise.

[Paladin1]

I pretty much only play Total Warfare rules, so I don't know what "disengaging the field limiter and hot-loading LRMs" means game-mechanics wise.

It means someone let his opponent get WAY too close for comfort.

IIRC, they're special rules covered in TacOps for making IS LRMS and PPCs usable at short range.

[willydstyle]

Yeah, I can figure that they're ways of reducing the impact of minimum ranges, but what does it mean in game mechanics, and why give someone advice using optional rules that may or may not be used in his games?

[TigerShark]

its not just for a single campaign on a single world it will be an ongoing campagn with the unit taking employment with different houses so it could encounter any extremes of gravity and temperature
as for tech keep it 3025 standard

RVN-4X
WVR-6M
WVR-6M
WHM-6D

[Paladin1]

You'd have to ask Sigma that, as I don't use those rules, but I'd say that his reasoning behind suggesting them has to do with his focus on campaign play with RP elements versus pick up games.

[Paladin1]

AWS-8Q
WHM-6D
GLT-4L
WVR-6M

You're weight classes are off by just a little bit.

[Kos]

Grand Dragon
Quickdraw variant with more med lasers (forget what it's called)
Wolverine K variant
Jenner F

[TigerShark]

You're weight classes are off by just a little bit.

Yeah. Fixed that. lol

[Paladin1]

Yeah. Fixed that. lol

No big deal, you could have just claimed to be Lyran and left it as it was.   :-X

[Sigma]

You'd have to ask Sigma that, as I don't use those rules, but I'd say that his reasoning behind suggesting them has to do with his focus on campaign play with RP elements versus pick up games.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. I play with a big toolkit and whatever makes sense. I won't use coolant failure rules on a new machine but I might for some relic that's been rusting in a salvage yard for 40 years.

Pure TW has some weird bugs anyhow, like no artillery, no mines, weapons found on a ton of newer canon mechs, no reloading rule and magic torso-twisting Novas. I'm much more about emulating the universe a bit more when it comes to campaigns.

For a real detailed campaign with modern Catalyst books, you pretty much need the whole current core set. No AToW if you only want to go light on the RP.

OP asked for a merc campaign force, so I went with campaign stuff.

BTW-Field Inhibitor rules are (no minumum range penalties, must roll a 3+ at 3 hexes, 6+ at 2 hexes, or 10+ at 1 hex to prevent your PPC suffering a crit and feedback in your face.) Hot-loaded LRM's are way better in that you negate all the minimum range penalties but take cluster roll penalties (roll 3d6 and take the 2 lowest dice)

[Marwynn]

Yeah, I can figure that they're ways of reducing the impact of minimum ranges, but what does it mean in game mechanics, and why give someone advice using optional rules that may or may not be used in his games?

To be fair, they were older MaxTech rules but back then they were still optional.

You declare your PPC's inhibitor is disabled at the End Phase of a turn. The minimum range penalty doesn't apply. However, you have to roll on a feedback chart everytime you fire it below minimum range: 1 hex, 10+; 2 hexes, 6+; 3 or more hexes, 3+.

If you fail, your PPC gets destroyed, the internal structure takes a PPC hit, and the pilot gets 2 hits. It's not worth it. Take the +3 penalty instead.

Hot Loading missiles means that the the LRMs (and ATMs) are active as soon as you shoot them. The min range of 6 hexes doesn't apply. However, you roll 3D6 and choose the lowest 2 for some reason. Any critical hit to the launcher sets off the ammo, and the size of the launcher (say LRM 5) will deal that much damage to the internal structure (5 points to the IS). Oh, and if you load ammo in the same location as that launcher, then on 2-5 if that launcher takes a critical hit, on a 2D6 one ton of ammo blows up.

(Wonder why that doesn't apply to Clan LRMs though... Hah well.)

[Dave Talley]

If you fail, your PPC gets destroyed, the internal structure takes a PPC hit, and the pilot gets 2 hits. It's not worth it. Take the +3 penalty instead.

yep or take a step forward and smack the bum upside da head

[Reaver]

I'd go four mediums:

WVR-6M Wolverine
KTO-18 Kintaro
GRF-1N Griffin
PHX-1 Phoenix Hawk

The Hawk can deal with infantry, the Kintaro does well on anti-vehicle detail, the Griffin provides support, and the Wolverine and PHX make a great knife-fighting tandem.

[skymarshall]

I would like to submit the following IMHO:

ARC-2R
Can hang back in to pummel your opponent from a distance, and if things get close 2 ML and 14 point kicks can make your displeasure well known

ENF-4R
Good brawling mech that can keep opponents honest out to 15 hexes. It has decent armor for its size.  The HBK-4G and CN9-A's would also work very well here, but I like the ENF cuz it can jump.

PHX-1
Excellent blend of speed and firepower while retaining an anti-PBI ability.  If you don't have to worry about infantry then the 1D model is superior

JR7-D
I've always loved this mech, I like the "shoot and scoot" style of play. Just don't get hit.

[Dave Talley]

I'd go four mediums:

WVR-6M Wolverine
KTO-18 Kintaro
GRF-1N Griffin
PHX-1 Phoenix Hawk

The Hawk can deal with infantry, the Kintaro does well on anti-vehicle detail, the Griffin provides support, and the Wolverine and PHX make a great knife-fighting tandem.

all great mechs but lots of ammo
for a campaign setting  would consider
2 wolverines and 2 PhawkDs  large and medium lasers all around only ammo to worry about is the SRMs for the wolvies, which should be enough for at least 2 fights

[klinktastic]

Crab
Wolverine
2 P. Hawks.

But seriously, 4 P. Hawks could be pretty awesome too.

[Deposed]

I'd go with...

WHM-6R
WLV-6M
VL-5T
FS9-M

Yeah, there's some ammo there that can go boom, but you can always Dump or go in with empty bins if necessary. The MGs will help with infantry, the SRMs with vehicles. The WHM stays back and opens holes with the PPCs, while the rest engage.

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone mention the VL-5T. I feel it is one of the best 3025 Meds. 6/9/6 with 4 MLs and the heat sinks to use them. You can overheat it, but it takes a couple of turns and you can use the JJs to get away to cool. The MG & flamer make it threatening to infantry & the MG can act as a crit seeker after you have some holes opened up.

**Edited to get the stink of the VLK off of the VT (originally posted at work, not that that is a suitable excuse) **

[TigerShark]

You mean the VL-5T?

[Deposed]

Oh yes, I can't believe that K got in there. VLKs are my least favorite 'mech. I'd a take a Jagermech before a Valkyrie.

[iamfanboy]

Y'know, in defense of the Grasshopper, it has tons of armor, and the large laser is manufactured in like 14-16 locations as of 3025 (at least 3 per Successor State). In fact, it's more commonly manufactured than an AC/10, and as common as an AC/5!

(just a small factoid I love shoving in the faces of 'canon junkies' who seem to think large lasers are rare for some reason...)

I'd gladly pick a Grasshopper, Griffin, Whitworth, and Firestarter as a great all-around lance; plenty of long-range firepower, the longer-range 'Mechs are capable of defending themselves close-in, and it does get nastier the closer you get. The Firestarter is definitely a great pick for a light, and the Whitworth is a consistently underrated medium.

If I were to desire a faster, cavalry-oriented lance, I'd go Kintaro, Griffin, Wolverine, and Crab, or Grand Dragon, Kintaro, Griffin, and Mongoose.

The Kintaro's a great medium that gets overlooked quite a bit for some reason, despite the fact that 18 SRMs is a truly nasty amount. It also has maxed armor and a token LRM that can add to its lancemate's long range firepower - I'd prefer swapping it for heatsinks, but what can you do sometimes? The Mongoose is what the Locust wants to be when it grows up: a vicious backstabber. The Grand Dragon... it's one of my favorite 3025 heavies, hands down.

[zeitgeist]

Javelin 10F: It's about as sturdy and maneuverable as you're going to find in that era. And packs a respectable punch.

Wolverine 6M: Again, tough, hard hitting and light on its feet. Between this and the Javelin, you have a pretty good recon in force group.

Hunchback 4J: Because I want my fire support. And if said fire support looks like one of the most infamous close combat brawlers out there, so much the better.

Thunderbolt 5SS: I was tempted to take the K2 Catapult, because I love that thing. But the 'Bolt is a bit sturdier, and it has hands, which I always see as an advantage. Plus you get some limited anti-infantry capabilities here.



Incidentally, I initially thought up a list of mechs that I have the most fun using, but it's a less optimized force:
SDR-5V
HCT-3F
DV-6M
MAD-3D

[Dave Talley]

gladly pick a Grasshopper, Griffin, Whitworth, and Firestarter as a great all-around lance; plenty of long-range firepower, the longer-range 'Mechs are capable of defending themselves close-in, and it does get nastier the closer you get. The Firestarter is definitely a great pick for a light, and the Whitworth is a consistently underrated medium.

The Kintaro's a great medium that gets overlooked quite a bit for some reason, despite the fact that 18 SRMs is a truly nasty amount.

yep my only complaints about the whit are its speed and no hands
I honestly forget the kintaro because I still think in original 3025 book context, to me the kintaro doesnt show up till 3039+ :-)
yeah I is an old fart

Javelin 10F: It's about as sturdy and maneuverable as you're going to find in that era. And packs a respectable punch.

yeah as much as I like locusts and mongooses (mongeese?)  the toughest light mechs are the fire javelin and the firestarter mirage
both are just viscious

[House Davie Merc]

yeah as much as I like locusts and mongooses (mongeese?)  the toughest light mechs are the fire javelin and the firestarter mirage
both are just viscious

The Firestarter Mirage made my list off the bat .

The only thing it lacks is a long range weapon ,but considering the era
you can only have so much on a light mech .

I like the Fire Javelin as well but it's armor allocation pushes me to pick
the FS9-M instead .
If the Fire Javelin just had 8 more armor points or even just rotating
one armor point from each rear location to the front it would be so much better IMHO .
As is it can't take 2 medium laser hits to the torsos or arms without  a crit roll .

The FS9-M has better armor coverage,runs cooler ,has anti-infantry weapons,
and actually costs 37 BV LESS then the Fire Javelin .

Oh yes, I can't believe that K got in there. VLKs are my least favorite 'mech. I'd a take a Jagermech before a Valkyrie.

If the ton that was wasted for the 11th heat sink would have been used for another ton
of ammo or another medium laser I would use the VLK pretty frequently .
With only 12 rounds for it's LRM it can't be used for fire support for very long and when
it runs out of ammo all you've got is a single medium laser .  (or a flamer if using that variant)
I'd rather have the ammo to make it more useful at it's specialty .

[Fear Factory]

I've done evil things with:

ASN-21 Assassin
CPLT-C4 Catapult
HBK-4G Hunchback
FS9-H Firestarter

[Paladin1]

If the ton that was wasted for the 11th heat sink would have been used for another ton
of ammo or another medium laser I would use the VLK pretty frequently .
With only 12 rounds for it's LRM it can't be used for fire support for very long and when
it runs out of ammo all you've got is a single medium laser .  (or a flamer if using that variant)
I'd rather have the ammo to make it more useful at it's specialty .

I have to admit that I like the idea of dropping the extra SHS for an additional ton of ammo, but even as it stands currently, if you put a decent gunner in a VLK, you're going to get results above what you would normally expect for a 30 tonner.  Granted, it's not perfect, but it's damn good if used properly.

[Zentard]

Well I've always tended to be a collector of rares.  I'm a private contractor working for Wolf's Dragoons.  The 'Mechs in my lance adhere to no faction.  They are personal property, and yes they are  extortionately expensive to maintain.

Marauder MAD-3D -this varient replaces the standard AC/5 with a Large Laser and a few heat sinks

Lynx LNX-8Q -this 'ol Lynx, she ain't what she used to be...  but she'll still toast your ass

Phoenix Hawk LAM PHX-HK2 -standard model

Stinger LAM STG-10 -reduced firepower for an extra ton of armor

[TigerShark]

LNX-8Q... I think that thing is just silly. It's like a weak, under-sinked OSR-2C with no hands or lower arms. It honestly COULD have been a great 'Mech. But like the EXT-4A, it's one step from greatness.