Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer  (Read 42458 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« on: 25 September 2014, 23:13:01 »
’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer

Warhammer. A one-handed hammer strengthened for use in battle. Perhaps the most prominent example being the one used by Thor (Mjolnir). A fantasy game, in the form of both roleplaying and tabletop. Also has a science-fiction derivative with the appellation 40,000, though I still don’t understand the appeal.

Then again, I do like Warmachine, so…

It is also the name of a 70-ton BattleMech with a long pedigree, and a fierce reputation. It would not surprise me if some commanders hearing that an enemy heavy had been detected had quoted the old game show, Press Your Luck. (“No Whammy, No Whammy, No Whammy!”) It even once served as the personal ride of Natasha Kerensky. The Warhammer premiered in the old Technical Readout: 3025, and since has appeared in the original Technical Readout: 3050, as well as Project Phoenix, 3039, 3075, 3085, 3085: Supplemental, Operation: Klondike, Experimental Technical Readout: Gladiators, and Era Report: 2750. One variant appears in the New Tech, New Upgrades section of the 3145 Record Sheets.

According to the proverb, “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.” The story behind the Warhammer begins with Achernar BattleMechs in the Federated Suns. They were not the creators of the Warhammer, per se. Instead, they built the first two designs for the Davions. First in 2459, the BattleAxe, then in 2475, the Hammerhands. The latter was extremely popular. So much so, that when asked to make a similar design, StarCorps apparently decided that Achernar should be very flattered, and imitated both designs, much to Achernar’s despair. The resulting Warhammer quickly and almost completely supplanted the prior two designs.

Entering service in 2515, the WHM-6R uses a VOX 280-rated engine to give it ground speed equal to the earlier BattleAxe. Ten tons of armor give 73% of maximum protection laid out in a 9, 22/9, 17/8, 20, 15 pattern (head, center front/rear, side front/rear, arms, legs respectively). Weapons consisted of a Particle Cannon in each arm, a medium and small laser in each side torso, a 6-pack SRM launcher in the right torso, and a machine gun in each side torso. One ton of ammunition feeds the SRM pack and a full ton of ammo was allocated for the machine guns, stored in the center torso. Eighteen heat sinks struggle with the full heat load, though that is a usual complaint for early designs.

It didn’t take long for an upgrade to appear. In 2599, the WHM-6Rb entered service. This differed from the base model by dropping a heat sink and replacing the rest with double-strength models. Artemis IV was added to the SRM pack, possibly one of the first designs to carry a full-production model (Artemis IV was perfected in 2598). Armor was replaced with an equal weight of ferro-fibrous, which was laid out in a 9, 25/9, 20/8, 20, 20 pattern.

The next variant showed up in the waning days of the Star League. First seen in battle on Fallon II in 2729, the WHM-6Rk upgrades the engine to a 350-rated extralight engine, giving this variant speeds similar to the Star League Excalibur. Fifteen double-strength heat sinks provide most of the heat dissipation needed, while any remaining weight went into additional armor, though exact allocation is unknown.

In 2761, the Royal regiments received an upgrade to the -6Rb model. The WHM-7A upgrades the Particle Cannons to extended-models, swaps the small lasers for pulses, and drops the machine guns for paired medium lasers in the center torso. A heat sink was removed to add CASE for the ammunition. An endo-steel skeleton was utilized and thirteen tons of standard plate provided protection in a 9, 33/10, 22/8, 20, 28 pattern.

Then the Fall of the Star League came. After the Exodus, it appears that the Inner Sphere was left with only the -6R models (the -6Rk was a rare Kurita command variant). Early in the Succession Wars, either as repairs, or preference, a few variants showed up. The first, in 2825, was the WHM-6L, which dropped the machine guns for a pair of flamers. The second, in 2830, was the WHM-6K which removed the machine guns for a pair of heat sinks. Finally, in 2835 the WHM-6D arrived, dropping both the machine guns and the SRM pack to add a pair of heat sinks and four tons of armor, laid out in a 9, 34/10, 22/8, 22, 30 pattern.

It would probably be improper not to mention that Natasha Kerensky’s Warhammer was a -6R model, though if she customized it more than that, it is unknown. Also, in the Battles over Mallory’s World, Yorinaga Kurita piloted a Warhammer. Though the Historical Turning Points volume on that conflict gives him a “personal” variant, I cannot find anything that differs between it and a stock -6K.

When the Helm core was rediscovered and sent to all the Inner Sphere powers, Lostech started its long return. In 3047, the first new Warhammer arrived, the WHM-7M. The first thing Ronin Incorporated did was upgrade the old -6R’s heat sinks to double-strength models. The Particle Cannons were replaced with extended-models. The small lasers and one machine gun were swapped for an anti-missile system.

 At the same time, Olivetti Weaponry was working on their upgraded version. The WHM-7S entered service in 3050. This one also upgraded the -6R’s Particle Cannons and heat sinks. However this model swaps the medium lasers for pulse versions and drops the machine guns. Also the 6-pack SRM was replaced by a 2-pack Streak launcher in each side torso. While a decent variant, there are two issues. One is the placement of the Streak ammunition in the center torso. The other is technically outside their control. The plant is on Sudeten. Which means the Falcons show up on world within a couple years.

Speaking of the Clans, their arrival brought two versions of the Warhammer from their archives. One version was the ten-ton heavier Warhammer IIc. The other was a quick refit termed the Warhammer C. This takes the iconic WHM-6R and replaces most of the weaponry with Clantech equivalents. The lasers become extended-models, the Particle Cannons were swapped for large pulse lasers, and the 6-pack SRM swapped for a Streak version. The machine guns remain Spheretech.

In 3054, the WHM-7K arrived. This model differs from the -7S by putting both Streak launchers in the right torso, uses an endo-steel skeleton, and swaps the small lasers for pulses and the medium pulses for standards. A TAG system is placed in the head (which is slightly surprising since it weighs the same as a Slave unit). The leftover weight went into armor, laid out in a 9, 30/13, 20/10, 22, 30 pattern.

The Warhammer had no more variants until the advent of Project Phoenix. Apparently, one StarCorps division jumped at upgrading the venerable design, which lead to other divisions to decide to also upgrade the design, and well, four different variants were produced. The original division produced the WHM-8D, entering service in 3066. It maintains the standard engine, but uses an endo-steel skeleton, mounts seventeen double-strength heat sinks, and carries an extended-model Particle Cannon in each arm, an extended-model medium and small in each side torso, a 6-pack Streak SRM launcher in the right torso and a C3 Slave unit in the head. The Streak ammunition is CASEd. Thirteen and a half tons of armor provide protection in a 9, 33/10, 23/7, 22, 30 pattern.

3067 saw the arrival of the other three. The first, the WHM-4L, comes from the Liao facility and differs from the -8D by using an extralight engine, a standard skeleton, one less heat sink, drops the lasers for a medium pulse in each arm, the left torso and the head. The Slave was removed for a Guardian ECM suite, which allowed for stealth armor to be used, laid out like the -8D.

The second, the WHM-9S, instead uses a light engine, uses twenty double-strength heat sinks, uses a standard skeleton and standard armor, laid out in a 9, 31/10, 22/7, 21, 29 pattern. Weapons consist of the extended-model Particle Cannons, the 6-pack Streak, and twin extended-model medium lasers placed in the centerline.

The third was the WHM-9D. This model is a bit stripped down compared to the -8D. All weapons save the Particle Cannons and the medium lasers were removed. The remaining weaponry is tied into a targeting computer. Armor has been adjusted slightly to a 9, 32/11, 22/8, 22, 30 pattern. A heat sink was added. The engine was upgraded to a 350-rated extralight, and jump jets were installed, giving the design the movement profile of a venerable Shadow Hawk.

Shortly thereafter the Jihad burst forth. Amid the chaos, more variants appeared. The first was the WHM-8M in 3069. This model mounts similar weaponry to the -9D, but without that expensive targeting computer, mounts the original standard engine, lacks the jump jets, and a small bit of armor. Protection was left in a 9, 29/10, 21/7, 22, 30 pattern. Twelve double heat sinks were used. The left over weight and space went to a Light-class Gauss Rifle, which was CASEd.

In 3073, two entered service. One, the WHM-10T was more-or-less a field refit, taking the -9D, reducing the heat sink number to eleven, and removing the targeting computer and standard jump jets for seven improved-class jump jets. The other variant is the WHM-8K takes the -7K, strips all the weaponry for a pair of Heavy-class Particle Cannons and a Streak-class 4-pack SRM (ammunition CASEd). A head-mounted C3 Slave unit helps with coordination. Light ferro-fibrous armor gives maximum protection in a 9, 34/10, 22/8, 22, 30 pattern.

Another off-shoot of the Jihad was the devastation of the gaming industry. However, if anything, the Games industry is resilient. Alongside this, corporations like StarCorps tend to use the Games to test out new concepts. In 3077, the Warhammer got hit by the confluence of these two factors. The WHM-X7, nicknamed “The Lich”, is a technically a FrankenMech. The design is based around the chassis of an -8D, but uses the arm structures of a -5R Marauder and the leg style of the Clan Nova Cat. A light fusion engine is used, thirteen double-strength heat sinks and light ferro-fibrous were also used. Armor is laid out in a 9, 33/11, 23/7, 22, 30 pattern. Weapons consist of arm-mounted Snub-Nose Particle Cannons tied to Capacitors. Extended-model medium lasers were installed in each arm and side torso. A Clantech Streak 6-pack SRM launcher was used, supposedly ripped from a Timber Wolf D. CASE II was used. The gyro was a heavy-duty model, and the engine and cockpit were armored.

As the ashes left by the Jihad began to cool, the Capellans and their Canopian friends modified the -4L. In 3081, the WHM-5L arrived, mounting a standard 210-rated engine, giving it the ground speed of an Atlas. Five improved-class jump jets were added to make up for the speed loss. Fifteen double-strength heat sinks were used, and eleven and a half tons of standard plate is laid out in a 9, 26/9, 22/6, 22, 20 pattern. A 4-pack SRM launcher is placed in the right torso, which is also CASEd. An extended-model medium is placed in each side torso. A Plasma Rifle is mounted in each arm, along with two tons of ammunition for each weapon.

In 3084, the WHM-11T arrived. This variant uses an extralight engine, five improved jump jets, thirteen double-strength heat sinks, and ten and a half tons of light-class ferro-fibrous laid out in a 9, 28/9, 22/6, 20, 18 pattern. A Snub-Nose and Light-class Particle Cannon are placed in each arm. An extended-model medium is in each side torso, and a 5-rack MML is in the right torso. One ton of each type of ammunition is placed below the launcher in the CASEd torso.

In 3085, StarCorps experiments in the Gaming scene came to fruition. Produced at all of their factories, save the one in the Federated Suns, the WHD-10CT lacks the armored components, Capacitors, CASE II and Clantech of “The Lich”, but instead uses a Spheretech Streak 6-pack, standard CASE, and a targeting computer. As well, the torso lasers were swapped for pulse versions. Armor is slightly reduced, laid out in a 9, 33/10, 23/7, 22, 28 pattern. Finally, a C3 Slave unit was placed in the head, to make the design even more dangerous (consider three of them tied into a Master). The designation pays homage to the influences of the Nova Cat (CT) and Marauder (D).

The final variant is a reworking of the -8D. The WHM-8D2 swaps the Slave unit for a Boosted version. Instead of the Streak launcher, a Class-5 Thunderbolt launcher was used. Half a ton of armor was removed, which breaks down to 4 points from the front center torso and two from each front side torso.

Using one is a matter of perspective. Most of the time, I use one as a walking gun battery, taking down enemies as I go, and absorbing some return fire. (Most of the fire seems to be aimed at the assaults coming with him.) Most of these are able to engage at long ranges and alternating fire as they (or the enemy) close. At least a couple are more like brawlers. And I have the image of a bunch of Shadow Hawks being paced by a Whammy or two as the muscle/fire magnet.

Fighting one is likely a PITA. He’s big, he’s got heavy weaponry, and people fear them. This leads to either extreme caution or attempting to achieve overkill. (Yes, I know, there is no such thing as overkill.) Heavy weapons of your own will certainly help. ECM on fast, agile movers will assist with the C3 carriers (though I think you’ll need Angel for the -8D2). Many of the variants are a bit heat-intolerant, so plasma and flamers also help. As for targeting a location, most of the time it would be either the right torso (SRM/MML/T-bolt) or center torso (the older models have machine gun ammo there). The lightbulb variant(s) probably should be hit in the center.

The Whammy is likely to remain a staple of BattleTech for eternity. As such, it should be casting its intimidating shadow across battlefields across the known worlds. Unlike its Unseen brother, the Marauder, the Warhammer has only spawned one offspring design (that I know of), the ten-ton heavier Warhammer IIc. So even in Clan space, its effect will continue for quite some time.

Rage

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #1 on: 26 September 2014, 00:22:21 »
By far one of my favorite 'Mechs in either the original Inner Sphere models or the heavier IICs. I just wish that there were a proper successor to the "Hot Hammer", even though the 5L tries.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #2 on: 26 September 2014, 01:04:42 »
My first mech and still a favorite! The original 6R teaches you discipline, managing your heat and keeping your enemies at range until the right time so you don't wast your armor. The Royal variants almost feel like your cheating but they also make complete sense!
 
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Nahuris

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #3 on: 26 September 2014, 01:14:24 »
I love the classic 6R

I've used it to great effect, all the way up through the Jihad, and it never fails me.
It's one of the few heavies I will consider outside of a random assignment table.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #4 on: 26 September 2014, 02:12:34 »
One of the old greats usable anytime and anywhere.
I loved the 6RB with the artemis on the SRM-6, but wish they had done more with the MG ammo though the 7A is my all time fave.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #5 on: 26 September 2014, 02:57:17 »
Brilliant review of a classic design, indeed THE classic design :)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #6 on: 26 September 2014, 09:47:09 »
ahh the war hammer.  The not quite gold standard in which other heavies are measured.    I have a lot of fond memories of the 6R, and 6D.  Sure with more modern times shes a little dated, and old school, but she can still go out and dance.    I do like the RSOK version of the classic.    well written article.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #7 on: 26 September 2014, 09:58:40 »
Has anyone had any luck with the Warhammer-8M? I want to try it because it's a Warhammer and Marik, so doubly awesome, but it also ditches the usual aesthetic of Warhammers, 2 big guns backed up by a cluster of smaller ones, so I have a hard time liking it. Can anyone confirm or deny its utility?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #8 on: 26 September 2014, 10:05:10 »
It was on the box that was my first BT purchase. It will always remain THE BattleMech for me.

Now, decades later I still wonder at how well it fullfils its original role. One thing I always check when it comes to the old stand bys is how they would work in a Star League force. That is companies or battallions comprised of nothing else than this one chassis. And the Warhammer certainly works. Marvelously even.

Something I had expected to be mentioned in this article, though. The age old -problem of the -6R:
Its weak, brittle shins.

I have seen many of them fall, being kicked to death by the envious, inferior Mechs giving expression to their frustration not emerging from the assembly line as one of the chosen WHMs.

---------------

The versions released later on, especially the Royal Whammy, the -8D and -8M are quite good in their timeline. But unlike its heavy class buddy, the Marauder, the Whammy kept the gankly, angular lines it was administerd in Project Phoenix.
The clan Whammy does it better in my eyes, but it is still not what I look at with a serene smile.

They are wonderful Mechs, don´t get me wrong. They just don´t strike the cord of nostalgic glorification that comes with instant recognition.
« Last Edit: 26 September 2014, 10:07:54 by Molossian Dog IIC »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #9 on: 26 September 2014, 10:12:46 »
Something I had expected to be mentioned in this article, though. The age old -problem of the -6R:
Its weak, brittle shins.

I have seen many of them fall, being kicked to death by the envious, inferior Mechs giving expression to their frustration not emerging from the assembly line as one of the chosen WHMs.

Conversely, using -6Rs in my SLDF forces has convinced me that they are absolute bricks if you can find a good firing position with partial cover. I've found that Warhammer able to absorb huge amount of firepower, while providing fire support for Mackies and Pillager-1Ns. O0
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #10 on: 26 September 2014, 10:42:59 »
In my eyes that is one of the decisive criterias.

Do massed formations of this Mech work?
- Check

Do massed formations offset the Mechs´ (few) deficiencies?
- Check AND check!

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #11 on: 26 September 2014, 10:46:22 »
Not that many 'mechs out there that would get a no response to those questions... O0

That's why I prefer to run SLDF forces from the independent regiments instead of the line divisions. None of the massed formations or pure lances, so it's a lot easier to build a balanced force at a gaming scale. And at that scale, the Warhammer still rocks. 8)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #12 on: 26 September 2014, 11:56:37 »
Loved the 6D big time back when I was playing 3020-3030 stuff. Just a rock solid all around mech.

The 8D has served me very well since then as well. It isn't as sexy as RAC bearing Marauders and such, but it gets kills, and that Standard engine holds up well, even in 3145.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #13 on: 26 September 2014, 12:15:15 »
8D's probably my favorite and the one I've had the most games in.  Just a stone cold killer and tough to get rid of.  Just wish the miniature wasn't so "special."

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #14 on: 26 September 2014, 12:23:31 »
The 8K is one of my all time favorite 'Mechs; I've seen it survive some truly heinous damage. I've had oddly good luck with the WHD-10CT and I'll happily take either with or without a master.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #15 on: 26 September 2014, 13:13:33 »
Has anyone had any luck with the Warhammer-8M? I want to try it because it's a Warhammer and Marik, so doubly awesome, but it also ditches the usual aesthetic of Warhammers, 2 big guns backed up by a cluster of smaller ones, so I have a hard time liking it. Can anyone confirm or deny its utility?


It runs a bit warm, and plays more like a Marauder, than a Warhammer...... with 3 guns that reach ranges of 21 plus, backed by a pair of medium lasers.
It's very good on open terrain areas......  if your opponent is into the postage stamp sized battlefields, a pair of 8M's will go a long way towards changing that thinking...... or it will convince him that the only place to fight is heavily forested canyons.

On the downside, the limited heat ability, as in only 12 Double Heat sinks forces you into a 2 -1- 2- 1 pattern with the PPC's...... while the Light Gauss CAN fire every turn.. you only have one ton of ammo..... and while a ton of ammo is 16 shots, once they drop off, you are looking at having to watch heat to avoid leaving yourself in a lurch.
Also, while a applaud the standard engine, the light Gauss is located in the side torso, and takes up 5 of the 7 criticals there, that are available to be hit. It's not quite a torso bomb, but if you do lose all the armor there, it's a consideration.... although, luckily, it is Cased.

So, yes, this is an effective design, but you have to know how to manage your heat curve, and you have to consider the role you plan to use it in.

Nahuris

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #16 on: 26 September 2014, 13:17:19 »
Sounds like a good way to fill out a direct-fire fire support lance without actually paying for another Cerberus
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #17 on: 26 September 2014, 15:09:40 »
  I just love it. It is not an instant win button and there are a number of tactics to defeat it because it has a big weakness, the lack of armor in the legs, and, therefore, needs to be handled with care. Well handled can punch way over the expected and become a total beast. Nursing the heat makes the 6R a great, great unit.

  And it is so cheap in 3050+ games that it is one of the few introductory units that can be deployed in modern battlefields and deliver a lot of loving. The huge number of variants shows how successful it is. Oddly enough (despite the improved weapons) the 8D can be a real brick into the face if you get nasty with the heat curve.  Highly recommended and beloved unit.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #18 on: 26 September 2014, 16:26:40 »
The basic 6R is  the definitive multi-purpose battlemech - a weapon for all circumstances and enough heat sinks to use them, although it could do with a bit more armour.  My personal favourite, however, is the 6K - whilst the 6D has an easier heat curve and more armour, I really like that the K retains the SRM pack and it costs a lot less in Bv.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #19 on: 26 September 2014, 17:36:41 »
The Warhammer 8D and Warhammer 7A are the two most perfect examples of this mech ever.

I was a rare bird in that I used to not care for these machines...  I found the 6R's armor to be anemic for the size and the lack of proper heat capacity for weapons was disturbing.  I stuck with Grasshoppers, Orions, and Archers for my heavies (I hated the Marauder with a passion)

it was Project Phoenix that caused me to give the older models a second look.  I would still rather ride an Orion then a Warhammer, or if I could swing it, a Hammerhands, but in the modern game, Whammy's are much more viable hardware.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #20 on: 26 September 2014, 18:11:44 »
The 6R (and by extension, the 6L, 6K, 7M and 7S and probably a few others) leg armour has allways been to me probably the only real flaw in the 'Mech. I've seen way too many of them go down to leg damage, especially kicks, for comfort.

With that being said, the Wammy is a good 'mech and a personal favourite, as well as being as iconic as all get-out. It was the cover painting of the Wammy on the Battletech 1st Ed boxed set that first drew me into the game back in the day, after all.

If I had to pick one variant, it'd probably be the 8D. That thing's nutty tough; near-max armour, standard engine, one ton of CASE'd SRM ammo as the only thing that goes bang and so on. It's one of those ones that I love to use but hate to fight
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #21 on: 26 September 2014, 22:23:16 »
The original Unseen art always had a visual appeal that I liked; so many of the older designs, like the Warhammer, just ooze threat.  They just look like the kind of war machine that you really, really need to fear, and few of the newer have that same obvious threat to them.

That being said, the old -6R never really did it for me.  It was always just too light on armor for me considering that my first rides were Orions and Awesomes.  It's the kind of 'Mech that I'd stick in an assault lance; the enemy would be so concentrated on trying to gun down my AWS-8Q or Atlas that the Whammy's threat level wouldn't register until he'd gotten at least a couple of PPC shots tossed down range.

I can honestly say that I've never used a lostech version of it, though.  The -7M looks a fairly decent upgrade, but its the -8M that I'd like to try out some time just to see if that's a decent use of the LGR.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #22 on: 27 September 2014, 00:45:48 »
Back in the early to mid-90s, my character on the Battletech 3056 MUSE drove a WHM-7K Warhammer in the Ryken-Go regiment (I used the same name then I do now).  I used it to do absolutely brutal things on the battlefield to my opponents.  Even without CASE it is a vicious, vicious BattleMech.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #23 on: 27 September 2014, 09:54:06 »
I love the Warhammer, it certainly lives up to its name.   Its a range fire, it classical versions stand out to me.  6R needs to smartly be used due to its armor, when time goes by while its variant cousins like the Hot Hammer and the tough 6D versions shine brightly.   I didn't really use the Clan Era versions in the day, but I found them attractive.  I actually Warhammers better than the Marauder as reseens thing happened.  I wasn't not in love with most the variants until the 9M2s came rolling out.

The 8D is my workhorse now, its sturdy, its reliable and it can be a bruiser if you need it to be despite it being outpaced on the battlefield.   I like the 8K for its firepower, but I've not so crazy if someone closes on one.   I've only used the 8M once, it in some ways had its hiccups in the fluff as they were slow roll variant out.  On paper the machine is sniper machine,  Using the LGR and ERPPCs carefully you won't over heat too badly.    In practice, I didn't find it very effective.

I'm looking forward to use the 8D2, but I've not used a force that really uses the C3Booster, frankly I don't think many do.  T-Bolt delivers a powerful range punch if your not running against AMS protected units, but I like having more short-range firepower.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #24 on: 27 September 2014, 14:59:07 »
I gotta say, the Hot Hammer is easily my favorite of all the intro-tech models. You take all the fun of the -6R, but you lose a ton of explosive ammo and double your antipersonnel firepower, plus all the firestarting, smoke-generating, and heat-dealing of a solid flamer armament. The heat burden is negligible, since odds are almost nil that you'll be firing the PPCs and flamers in the same turn anyway(And if you do, well, it's 3025. Sweat the fat off, you lazy bum!)

I'm just sad that it's not enough for a HT special in Alpha Strike, but I suppose you can't have everything.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #25 on: 27 September 2014, 15:59:10 »
That is one thing about most Warhammers: they have gun for every occasion.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #26 on: 29 September 2014, 03:00:00 »
The 8D is a staple of my usual mix. I combine it with the firestarter Omni and the Schiltron and some ECM platform for a c3, arrow IV and SG-LRM force. Dependable

the 8M... It simply doesn´t compare.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #27 on: 14 March 2017, 23:48:35 »
Bit of thread necromancy, but in a MekHQ AtB campaign, I got the opportunity to run a Warhammer C, the somewhat kludgy Clan  refit of the WHM-6R: twin LPLs instead of PPCs, Clan extended range versions of the lasers, and a Streak SRM-6, with the same MGs retained. Armor stayed the same, as did heat sinks, and if you're wondering what happened to the other two tons, you aren't alone.

Holy crap is it mean, even with the stock armor and heat sinks.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #28 on: 15 March 2017, 20:17:07 »
Its one of the few that works out decently . . . now just imagine putting Clan DHS in to fill the missing ton gaps- after all its already a hybrid mech.  Or a bit more sedate, just throw in SHS . . . after all they had to salvage some.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #29 on: 15 March 2017, 22:14:35 »
Double heat sinks tend to make anything better. Kind of like Clan LPLs, which the Warhammer C also has. ;)

As it stands, you gain two tons. It carries Inner Sphere MGs, so you could save another half-ton switching to Clan MGs, but I'd rather use Clan MGs to double their number and keep the mass the same. If you're feeling adventurous, switch to a half-ton of ammo for your MGs, and cram in two more, for six total. Beside being a walking anti-infantry atrocity, that's up to 12 points of damage heat-free when fighting in close, when you probably need heat-free damage the most.

Instead of adding another twin single heat sinks, another option would be to tack on two more tons of armor, which can go a long way to protecting your vulnerable areas, and put you on par with a Crusader for protection.

If you're feeling particularly insane, you could instead use those two tons, plus the half-ton saved by dropping half your MG ammo, plus a half-ton from switching to two Clan MGs, and add a second Streak SRM-6.  Close in firepower, then, would be twin STK-6, for 8 potential heat, 2 ERML for 10 heat, 2 ERSL for 4 heat, and twin MGs for 0 heat.  With 18 heat sinks, and the STKs only generating heat if they lock on and fire, that should be a brutal weapons load for a manageable heat load.

There's even some precedent to the Falcons revisiting the traditional Warhammer: they used the Rifleman as a test bed in 3083, not to mention a couple versions of the BattleMaster.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #30 on: 15 March 2017, 22:38:01 »
Most of the Warhammer designs are really good, 6D 7A 7K 8D 9S are all solid troopers and I daresay the 9D gives the Falconer a run for its money.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #31 on: 16 March 2017, 01:13:15 »
I was not saying change them ALL to DHS, just playing with it as a patchwork monster- which it is.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #32 on: 16 March 2017, 08:50:41 »
There really needs to be a proper successor to the Hot Hammer.  With plasma rifles. >:D
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #33 on: 16 March 2017, 09:39:47 »
There really needs to be a proper successor to the Hot Hammer.  With plasma rifles. >:D

It's called the WHM-5L.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #34 on: 16 March 2017, 12:05:20 »
Who doesn't want a Warhammer?!?! even when logic dictates a better mech choice, the Warhammer just seems to call to us.

(though we were probably also the type that spent our entire $1000 on bullets when playing Oregon Trail in grade school)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #35 on: 16 March 2017, 13:15:36 »
It's called the WHM-5L.

 :-\   It's a Whammy with plasma rifles, but that thing is just so different that it scarcely registers as a Warhammer to me.  I think it's the crazy movement that really throws me off.  Warhammers move 4/6+ and don't jump.  The 9D sits a little weird with me, but the 5L?  Some sort of bizarre, atavistic throwback to the BattleAxe and Hammerhands.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #36 on: 16 March 2017, 15:20:09 »
We had a discussion in my family, and it came out my son likes the Warhammer best. Partially, his ridiculous luck allowed him to win a battle against my favorite Marauder (I match up I've won against seasoned veterans), partially he likes the balance of short and long ranged weapons, and I think he likes the humanoid look.

My daughter picked the Marauder, but I think only because I did. Knowing her, if she did a bit more digging shed pick the Awesome or Dire Wolf (or Orca).
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #37 on: 16 March 2017, 15:32:23 »
I'm still using the WHM-7A in Dark Age games, it's a beautiful design that can go head to head with almost any other heavy design.

 
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #38 on: 16 March 2017, 19:05:29 »
*State Farm voice*  Well, its a Royal, so yeah . . .
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #39 on: 16 March 2017, 20:26:19 »
*State Farm voice*  Well, its a Royal, so yeah . . .

Considering how many talk up the post Pheonix builds, thought it's only fair to mention. It's more or less the bases for the Davion 8D and is actually cheaper BV2 wise.

If you need a level 1 go to pick, the D6 zombie will out fight most of it's competitors, including the 9D. 
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #40 on: 16 March 2017, 20:42:49 »
Thought the -7M was built off the recovered SL data . . . I mean it does some things differently but works pretty well too.  Someone operating as a GM for my merc campaign fluffed out a -7M from their unit that was for sale- it was considered jinx'd, killed 3 pilots in their unit which is why it was for sale.  Has not killed the pilot in among my mercs but it always gets crippled in a serious fight . . . last one had a leg blown off, only part of the mech that was touched, it fell behind a hill but as the enemy moved was able to contribute a single ERPPC to the rest of the battle.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #41 on: 16 March 2017, 22:14:19 »
That's one of the problems with Warhammers in general: their weaponry is legendary, so they have a reputation as being vicious to face in combat, but they're still 70-ton 'Mechs and thin on armor in ma y variants, which make them easier to kill than, say, an Awesome. As a result,your Warhammer will often draw disproportionate levels of fire.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #42 on: 25 June 2019, 00:09:12 »
Out of curiosity and given that most royal variants have availability to the clans why is the Warhammer 7A extinct as of the clan invasion?

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #43 on: 25 June 2019, 04:24:14 »
Most likely: those clan 7As that survived past Operation Klondike got refit into IICs.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #44 on: 25 June 2019, 06:05:36 »
Most likely: those clan 7As that survived past Operation Klondike got refit into IICs.
I would think that would be a thing.   Were talking about jacking up Heavy into an Assault with Clan tech to the Endosteel bones.  I'd would figure there new builds. Traditionally, only "C" and not "IIC" are refits of the originals with maybe the exception of the Orion C the Clan Wolf Empire is building.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #45 on: 25 June 2019, 08:20:57 »
Out of curiosity and given that most royal variants have availability to the clans why is the Warhammer 7A extinct as of the clan invasion?

My guess is that it was popular, so it kept getting used in battle, so if the Clans weren't actively building new ones eventually all of them were destroyed on the battlefield.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #46 on: 25 June 2019, 09:37:11 »
I would think that would be a thing.   Were talking about jacking up Heavy into an Assault with Clan tech to the Endosteel bones.  I'd would figure there new builds. Traditionally, only "C" and not "IIC" are refits of the originals with maybe the exception of the Orion C the Clan Wolf Empire is building.

The IICs get done in 2 flavors . . . one is a brand new design paying some sort of homage to the name of the previous design (the Phoenix Hawk IIC really stretches this, Griffin & Shadow Hawk are more the norm) and then you have ones that are rebuilds of the actual design (Orion IIC, Commando IIC and Highlander IIC to mind).

The C series comes in two flavors as well, the 3025 designs with standard everything else and retrofit with Clan weapons and nothing else (Atlas C, Marauder C, Warhammer C, etc) which is why most of them ended up lighter than the norm.  The Orion C is a bit of a hybrid to the approach (we got a RS for it), most of the chassis uses IS parts that were already part of the design on the production line and Clan weapons for the full tonnage as well as punch.  The second is designs like the Imp, Marauder II, Firefly and a few others, these designs are the Clan versions of what the Dragoons brought to the IS so they are the 'originals' that the dumb'd down versions we originally saw came from.  I think the Gallowglas WD is in the same boat, but it gets a different moniker.

I am with Weirdo about what happened to most of the Warhammer 7As & 6Rbs in the early Clan's hands.  They were one of the prime line machines they had on hand . . . some might have survived into modern times but IMO that would be extremely rare (you know, that proviso about how singletons might still exist into the next era) and I would not want to pilot them b/c they are likely patched together wrecks.  Were Warhammer 7As turned into Warhammer IIC?  Why?  The engines are going to be different sized, the weapons are all Clan spec, the structure is going to be heavier, and many other changes outside of MAYBE the cockpit- and I doubt even that is the case.

So you backed that Warhammer 7A into a factory refit cradle on Strana Mechty to Clannerize your ride . . . its dismantled piece by piece and all the upgraded parts go back into that cradle to build your new Warhammer IIC.  At the end of the process, you have that shiny new mech where you had a Warhammer 7A . . . but hey look, the Clan has enough parts to build a Warhammer 7A too!
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #47 on: 25 June 2019, 13:36:37 »
That's one of the problems with Warhammers in general: their weaponry is legendary, so they have a reputation as being vicious to face in combat, but they're still 70-ton 'Mechs and thin on armor in ma y variants, which make them easier to kill than, say, an Awesome. As a result,your Warhammer will often draw disproportionate levels of fire.

True dat.  Most any mech that can 'throw heavier than it can take' winds up becoming a magnet for enemy fire.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #48 on: 25 June 2019, 18:52:01 »
Reading these posts I can not help but wonder, if the 7A is an upgrade of the royal 6Rb, why isn't it a 7Rb?

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #49 on: 25 June 2019, 19:18:54 »

It would probably be improper not to mention that Natasha Kerensky’s Warhammer was a -6R model, though if she customized it more than that, it is unknown. Also, in the Battles over Mallory’s World, Yorinaga Kurita piloted a Warhammer. Though the Historical Turning Points volume on that conflict gives him a “personal” variant, I cannot find anything that differs between it and a stock -6K.
It is a -6K sheet, they just wanted to ensure people had the sheet and knew why it was there.
Oddly though, in the warrior series, when Yorinaga and Morgan both recall the battle, they mention yorinaga firing machineguns. So either they both misremembered the battle, or the scenario should have used a -6R.
« Last Edit: 26 June 2019, 14:14:28 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #50 on: 25 June 2019, 19:28:34 »
Reading these posts I can not help but wonder, if the 7A is an upgrade of the royal 6Rb, why isn't it a 7Rb?


My assumption: The b notation was never actually used by the SLDF. The Star League played a shell game where it didn’t acknowledge having better versions. They just called the WHM-6Rb a WHM-6R.  The b notation came about later to note whether it was the WHM-6R everybody knew about or the better one.
The WHM-7A wasn’t a secret, so it had a new model number.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #51 on: 26 June 2019, 11:46:15 »
I'd assume the 7A is designated as it is because it is new production, truly separate model.
Maybe the 6Rb wasn't a refit (it could've been, though some bs are too complex to be relatively simple refits) but it was produced concurrently with the 6R, hence the name.

Further, the 6Rb was eventually available to everyone in the Inner Sphere (it is in IS General list on MUL). Whether clones or the Star League just made it available, no idea, but it does give reason to commission the 7A model for themselves.

EDIT I'll note the King Crab 010 as another oddity when it comes to designations. While there's a 000b, the 010 is a new model that is a Royal as well.
« Last Edit: 26 June 2019, 11:53:16 by Empyrus »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #52 on: 27 June 2019, 22:12:19 »
I'd assume the 7A is designated as it is because it is new production, truly separate model.
Maybe the 6Rb wasn't a refit (it could've been, though some bs are too complex to be relatively simple refits) but it was produced concurrently with the 6R, hence the name.

Further, the 6Rb was eventually available to everyone in the Inner Sphere (it is in IS General list on MUL). Whether clones or the Star League just made it available, no idea, but it does give reason to commission the 7A model for themselves.

The dates help provide context to what's going on with the Warhammer but you've got the gist of it already.  The WHM-6Rb was originally a Royal unit at the time it was introduced just after the Reunification War but proliferated later on and was no longer really a "Royal"-exclusive 'Mech by that point.  The WHM-7A was introduced in 2761, not long after the ER PPC was entering service, and represents a new Royal Warhammer to improve on the 6Rb's capabilities.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #53 on: 28 June 2019, 00:34:57 »
Its a bit of a similar situation with the MAD-1R Marauder, isn't it?

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #54 on: 28 June 2019, 06:25:33 »
Its a bit of a similar situation with the MAD-1R Marauder, isn't it?
Not quite.
The Marauder 1R is the original model that uses modest amounts of advanced tech, later upgraded to higher tech 2R, then downgraded to 3R during the Succession Wars.

The Warhammer starts at low tech 6R, upgraded to Royal 6Rb, then later to 7A.

While the Marauder may have started as a Royal, it proliferated relatively quickly (wide availability), and the 2R is Royal and FedSuns available (though i wonder if that's the case of convergent evolution).

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #55 on: 28 June 2019, 07:28:59 »
Not quite.
The Marauder 1R is the original model that uses modest amounts of advanced tech, later upgraded to higher tech 2R, then downgraded to 3R during the Succession Wars.

The Warhammer starts at low tech 6R, upgraded to Royal 6Rb, then later to 7A.

While the Marauder may have started as a Royal, it proliferated relatively quickly (wide availability), and the 2R is Royal and FedSuns available (though i wonder if that's the case of convergent evolution).

Might be a case of how the MUL SL-era is a little too broad. So... only really popping up in FedSuns hands after the coup, when the SLDF desperate for equipment started leaking advanced technology like a sieve. GM of Kathil starting to build those and boy, those them 2Rs fell out the back of a dropship, honest.

But what I meant about the 1R is that its similar to the 6Rb in that its a design that started out in the immediate aftermath of the Reunification War as a design exclusive to the SLDF Royals... but began to proliferate. Now, being otherwise a more low-tech design then the 6Rb, it proliferated much quicker.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #56 on: 28 June 2019, 10:14:13 »
Might be a case of how the MUL SL-era is a little too broad.

It's extremely broad, just like the Succession Wars eras mostly are.  In a lot of cases, you're going to have to use your best judgment to interpret the information.

In any case, we're kind of getting a bit of afield of the Warhammer itself here.  If you want to request more specific information about various MUL dates, I recommend doing that in the official MUL thread.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #57 on: 21 July 2019, 00:13:36 »
Always wonder why a proper 6D upgrade wasn't done
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #58 on: 21 July 2019, 16:20:29 »
A -7D?  well . . . it would be pretty close to the Penetrator IMO.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #59 on: 21 July 2019, 16:26:32 »
Is the 8D not a good upgrade for the 6D?
Max armor, good cooling, good firepower. Yes, there's the Streak with its explosive ammo but there's CASE and decent amount of padding so it ain't that bad.

IMO the 8D is an excellent Inner Sphere heavy 'Mech.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #60 on: 21 July 2019, 17:01:21 »
Is the 8D not a good upgrade for the 6D?
Max armor, good cooling, good firepower. Yes, there's the Streak with its explosive ammo but there's CASE and decent amount of padding so it ain't that bad.

IMO the 8D is an excellent Inner Sphere heavy 'Mech.
I have to agree.  Of all the reseens, she one the ones to me came out pretty solid and reusable.

Thing i noticed is the Kuritan Star League era Variant, still hasn't gotten a Record Sheet yet unless someone spotted it else where?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #61 on: 21 July 2019, 17:13:20 »
I have to agree.  Of all the reseens, she one the ones to me came out pretty solid and reusable.

Thing i noticed is the Kuritan Star League era Variant, still hasn't gotten a Record Sheet yet unless someone spotted it else where?
ER2750 'Mechs lack official RS. Megamek has approximate versions though.
The 6Rk is easy though, just replace the engine with an XL type and increase speed (i'd keep the leg heat sinks, others get moved to the engine).
Kinda neat model actually, the Whammy has a bit limited armor so greater mobility is certainly useful.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #62 on: 23 July 2019, 05:08:59 »
ER2750 'Mechs lack official RS. Megamek has approximate versions though.
The 6Rk is easy though, just replace the engine with an XL type and increase speed (i'd keep the leg heat sinks, others get moved to the engine).
Kinda neat model actually, the Whammy has a bit limited armor so greater mobility is certainly useful.

6Rk is DHS equipped, so that's kinda out.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #63 on: 23 July 2019, 07:09:23 »
Ah, right, forgot that.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #64 on: 23 July 2019, 14:44:25 »
Is the 8D not a good upgrade for the 6D?
Max armor, good cooling, good firepower. Yes, there's the Streak with its explosive ammo but there's CASE and decent amount of padding so it ain't that bad.

IMO the 8D is an excellent Inner Sphere heavy 'Mech.
It is a decent upgrade of the 6D but takes way to long appear, a 7D with ER PPC and DHS could have been rolled out much earlier (ie tro:3050) but most of those upgrades were done in the OH Shiny New toys/tech lets pop this in anywhere, reference like Panther with ERPPC and SHS.  Here what I am should have been a  7D.  It makes a a great trooper mech
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #65 on: 23 July 2019, 16:37:37 »
8D's probably my favorite and the one I've had the most games in.  Just a stone cold killer and tough to get rid of.  Just wish the miniature wasn't so "special."

Don't know if it is tournament legal to do so, but with the beautiful knew sculpt in the Inner Sphere Battle Lance coming out in 2020, couldn't you just use that to portray your Warhammer 8D without feeling like the red headed step child?

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #66 on: 23 July 2019, 16:54:44 »
Since its not WYSIWYG . . .
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #67 on: 08 September 2019, 07:30:47 »
It is a decent upgrade of the 6D but takes way to long appear, a 7D with ER PPC and DHS could have been rolled out much earlier (ie tro:3050) but most of those upgrades were done in the OH Shiny New toys/tech lets pop this in anywhere, reference like Panther with ERPPC and SHS.  Here what I am should have been a  7D.  It makes a a great trooper mech


The FedCom was building the 7S and buying the 7M, why would they need to build a third variant?  I suspect other upgrades or completely new designs were higher on the priority list anyway; while both the AFFS and LCAF both used plenty of Whammys, it’s not really the design you think of when you think “Davion Heavy” or “Steiner Heavy”.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #68 on: 08 September 2019, 10:10:38 »
Think it's just a miss opportunity by FASA, like the Awesome AWS-9M when the AWS-9Q seems like the more logical upgrade.

That said, this was right about when the BTU was flooded with new designs along with the return of SLDF designs. Would a 7D be nice? Hell yeah, I have a fan build myself. Is it needed?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #69 on: 08 September 2019, 16:57:14 »
Without missiles, how different is a -7D over a Penetrator really?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #70 on: 08 September 2019, 17:13:19 »
Without missiles, how different is a -7D over a Penetrator really?


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #71 on: 08 September 2019, 19:14:14 »
Without missiles, how different is a -7D over a Penetrator really?
PPC not LL; ML not MPL

It's the little things, but they count. That's why I'm a fervent believer in the idea that Mech variants should adhere to the established theme of the Mech.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #72 on: 08 September 2019, 21:19:55 »
PPC not LL; ML not MPL

It's the little things, but they count. That's why I'm a fervent believer in the idea that Mech variants should adhere to the established theme of the Mech.

And still not that different- trade some range issues for damage and the ability to pile on.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #73 on: 08 September 2019, 23:39:48 »
Between the Black Knight and the Penetrator, you got energy troopers well covered. Besides, the Warhammer WHM-6Rb is also the same tech level
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #74 on: 09 September 2019, 14:48:12 »
I think the thing about the availability of Mech really is a deciding factor. I mean the Black Knight should be ridiculously rare but there's no such thing as rare there's either extinct or it's available. TRO o 3025 revised pretty much threw that under the the bridge saying that it was available even though if the fluff suggests it's limited in number. Warhammer was mech of its time before the unseen thing ruined things. Thus flood of arguably better designs like the Knight.  Penetrator is very different machine from the whammy. It has to be bracket fired and you got be careful about side torsos a due to its XL and bomb in the center torso with its AMS ammo.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #75 on: 09 September 2019, 15:43:24 »
Thus flood of arguably better designs like the Knight.  Penetrator is very different machine from the whammy. It has to be bracket fired and you got be careful about side torsos a due to its XL and bomb in the center torso with its AMS ammo.

The Warhammer -6D is sort of bracket fire as well, since the choice boils down to, fire both PPCs or fire one & everything else while running.  I get you, as a merc starting off in the Chaos March in '60 I wanted affordable & survivable, so for my line designs I ended up with three of the D series from 3025 (BLR, MAD, WHM) as my line fighters.  Fire support hung further back and I went with more advanced designs to increase throw weight- not fighting the Clans being cutting edge did not quite matter.  But IMO you can take a Warhammer 6D pilot, put his/her but in the seat of a Penetrator (except the weird LRM one) and its going to feel a lot the same- except the gait- when it comes to fighting the machine.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #76 on: 09 September 2019, 15:55:14 »
  Penetrator is very different machine from the whammy. It has to be bracket fired and you got be careful about side torsos a due to its XL and bomb in the center torso with its AMS ammo.

Um?

No Penetrator I'm aware of has an XL or even light. The ammo bomb on all of them is irritating, but losing a side torso barely slows one down

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #77 on: 09 September 2019, 16:34:45 »

The FedCom was building the 7S and buying the 7M, why would they need to build a third variant?  I suspect other upgrades or completely new designs were higher on the priority list anyway; while both the AFFS and LCAF both used plenty of Whammys, it’s not really the design you think of when you think “Davion Heavy” or “Steiner Heavy”.
But the 6D was/is the Fed Sun model of the Warhammer, it must have had it "users" who were not used to launching Missile at target too.  And no it makes a good Steiner Recon mech

Without missiles, how different is a -7D over a Penetrator really?
I have had horrible lucky with Penetrators and good luck with Warhammers   :thumbsup:
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #78 on: 09 September 2019, 18:27:27 »
I have had horrible lucky with Penetrators and good luck with Warhammers   :thumbsup:

Oh, THAT I will buy . . . I am not a huge fan of the Timber Wolf A, but whenever I DO run it, the SSRM ammo always gets TAC'd it seems.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #79 on: 10 September 2019, 14:48:17 »
Um?

No Penetrator I'm aware of has an XL or even light. The ammo bomb on all of them is irritating, but losing a side torso barely slows one down
Oof, been long time since i used the Penetrator. I had been running that mech for many years (real time) in very long campaign.  Sorry for mis-remembering.  Thing was pretty darn easy to lose your torso, i can safely say that.

New rules with AMS were not yet in effect, so I've been saved couple times from a Center Torso hit to the Ammo bin, when bin had run dry thanks to rolling a 1D6 show how much ammo was used.   Whammy was more vulnerable to a ammo it than Pen was though.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #80 on: 18 June 2021, 08:47:39 »
So, what do people think of the new Warhammers?

The -9K feels more of a Project Phoenix Warhammer than Classic-style Warhammer. A bit tricky to manage heat, not firing a HPPC to fire a MML-9 leaves a lot of heat capacity unused.
I do like the heavy armoring of the -10K but using ClanTech only for secondary items feels a bit wasteful. Of course, the day Kuritans get around fitting it with Clan pulse lasers or ERPPCs, it is gonna transform into a true monstrosity.
The C 3 is odd. It debuts a lot later than the Warhammer IIC, but the fact it sports Clan XL engine and Clan Endo-steel kinda indicates it is fresh manufactured thing rather than a refit of cached Warhammers.
The -9R is very... well, Warhammer. Nicely improved, though i can't help but wish for another heat sink. As it is, secondary weapons add up to 18 heat, so firing them with one ERPPC is 33 heat before movement. I'd gladly trade half a ton of MG ammo and either half a ton of ammo or just using standard CASE for another heat sink. Objectively, not perhaps a big improvement to the -7A or -8D but glad to have it all the same.
 

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #81 on: 18 June 2021, 12:29:43 »
I like the 9K, the MML is something I would mainly use for crit-seeking once the HPPCs have melted open some armour. Generally more useful in SRM mode than LRM maybe, but you might get some use out of the LRMs if you're being shot at with plasma. I suppose if you're stationary in good cover you can just use it every other turn. This variant isn't much different from the Jihad-era 8K. The 8K uses the Project Phoenix exterior, I wonder if any got factory refits to 9K standard.

The 10K is a solid variant in the vein of the old SLDF version, with some perks on top. Maybe it's just me but the BV seems high for what you get, the comparable 7K costs about 350 less. Then again it'll shrug off all that Davion gauss and autocannon fire with the Ballistic Reinforced armour. The particular usage of Clantech is a little odd, nothing bad though, just that as noted it's all the minor secondary weapons. I guess the Clantech is production made on the back of the dead Nova Cats and that cERPPCs can't be churned out in enough numbers yet. Given the hitting power of the HPPC on the 9K over the 10K's IS ERPPCs, do you think these two are in production at the same time?

The 8R is good, it's a sensible design that avoids the flaws of earlier upgrades and just gives you what you want from a Warhammer in that era. Even more, I can understand how the Regulans would want to replace their heat bucket 8Ms. I would have taken even the 7M over the 8M.



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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #82 on: 18 June 2021, 14:20:54 »
The 8R is good, it's a sensible design that avoids the flaws of earlier upgrades and just gives you what you want from a Warhammer in that era. Even more, I can understand how the Regulans would want to replace their heat bucket 8Ms. I would have taken even the 7M over the 8M.
Oh, didn't even think how the Marik Warhammers were. Let's see:
-The -7M is dated, with thin armor and no CASE, plus my most hated thing: Trading one MG for AMS rather than removing half a ton of MG ammo...
-The -8M... I'll be honest, i forgot this was a thing, i must've suppressed the memory. Hot and stupid, though i grant it has decent armor. Yeah, definitively see why the Regulans and rest of the Free Worlds remnants were happy to get the -8R.

I am a bit more wondering why others wanted -8Rs, Project Phoenix Warhammers for other factions are OK to good, but i suppose the Project Phoenix association with the Word of Blake would've driven adoption of Warhammers with classic lines.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #83 on: 18 June 2021, 14:25:15 »
2hPPC+MML+walk, hPPC+MML+move is a pattern that avoids heat penalties on the whammy. It isn't ideal, but it works.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #84 on: 18 June 2021, 15:49:29 »
2hPPC+MML+walk, hPPC+MML+move is a pattern that avoids heat penalties on the whammy. It isn't ideal, but it works.
If we're firing the MML in LRM mode then by my rough estimate the averaged damage is slightly lower than a pattern where we're only shooting the two HPPCs every turn, assuming every weapon hits. Your pattern has higher potential max damage than the HPPCs alone but only if you get very good rolls on the cluster hits table for the MML every time. In SRM mode the average damage for your firing pattern is higher than just the HPPCs so it's good for close range.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #85 on: 22 April 2022, 09:39:40 »
I got MechWarrior 5 recently with the MercTech mod installed and found a pristine Royal Warhammer WHM-6Rb on the black market that I could afford.  Being that it was 3016 in the game at the time, I was forced with a choice between that and a Thunderbolt TDR-5S with some minor armor damage:  Do I go with one of my favorite battlemechs with dual PPCs and 17 DHS that I can't easily replace at that time, or do I go with a rugged Thunderbolt that can use replacement parts that are easily sourced?

I decided that 17 DHS were worth the maintenance risk and combat performance boost, so I went with the Royal Warhammer!  I made some modifications to it, like removing the machine gun and Artemis IV FCS, and replacing all the Ferro Fibrous armor with maximum standard plate, and swapping the two small lasers for medium lasers.  It still has 17 DHS and it has performed very well in combat!  Though if I start losing DHS due to combat damage, I will still have 11 engine-mounted DHS to provide adequate cooling for the PPCs, and use the extra mass for either another PPC or squeeze in dual large lasers.  But that's what might happen if you run a LosTech toy in the Succession Wars, board game or video game campaign!

I'll buy that Thud if I find it again, but if I had to choose between a Thud and a Warhammer?  Hmmm more armor and a gun for everything vs. less armor and dual PPCs (though I can modify it into a WHM-6K, roughly, if I wanted to)...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #86 on: 23 April 2022, 01:04:48 »
What are everyone's thoughts on the WHM-10T? Currently in a scenario where the opposing force has a full lance of them (nearly ten percent of their total force!), and I'm curious to hear from those who have experience using/fighting them.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #87 on: 23 April 2022, 01:41:22 »
I hate the WHM-10T and they all need to die. I say this from the experience of having fought one and spending the entire game with it backshooting my heavies
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #88 on: 23 April 2022, 06:12:14 »
10T is highly mobile Pretend Warhammer.  Moving insane speeds for hammer, yet still has a punch.   
I say pretend since it's acts nothing like a Warhammer.  Like Deadborder said, it's good at hunting and harassing slower units.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #89 on: 23 April 2022, 06:31:51 »
I don't think it acts any less of a Warhammer than the 9D does.  It trades accuracy for more mobility.  I don't think there are many other 'mechs that can move two PPCs around a map and use them like the WHM-10T does.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #90 on: 23 April 2022, 09:55:50 »
Anyone tried the CS Whammy from the Tukkayid book? Have to say it is apealing, allthough it has an XL. But the JJs and Armor is nice. Allthough I propably would exchange the 3 SSRM 2 for the Classical SRM 6 and add an AMS like in the  7M.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #91 on: 23 April 2022, 11:04:59 »
I've never been able to picture a jumping Warhammer. It's just so blocky and stompy.

Those ComStar Tukayyid variants are crazy on the Streak 2's, for anti-Elemental purposes I guess.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #92 on: 23 April 2022, 11:19:29 »
Streaks also make sense given that we know ComStar planned from the beginning to fight a long drawn-out war.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #93 on: 23 April 2022, 21:07:32 »
Funny this thread gets revived, Tex of the BlackpantsLegion puts out his Warhammer review video on youtube.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #94 on: 23 April 2022, 21:31:29 »
Anyone tried the CS Whammy from the Tukkayid book? Have to say it is apealing, allthough it has an XL. But the JJs and Armor is nice. Allthough I propably would exchange the 3 SSRM 2 for the Classical SRM 6 and add an AMS like in the  7M.

I've used it, yeah.  Good mech.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #95 on: 23 April 2022, 22:50:25 »
I've never been able to picture a jumping Warhammer. It's just so blocky and stompy.

Those ComStar Tukayyid variants are crazy on the Streak 2's, for anti-Elemental purposes I guess.
It is meant to look like a 3050/55 Mech. That means Streak 2s.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #96 on: 23 April 2022, 23:16:39 »
Funny this thread gets revived, Tex of the BlackpantsLegion puts out his Warhammer review video on youtube.

 At 2 hours, damn good video. The man has a way with words to make "Good Enough" a title to be proud of.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #97 on: 24 April 2022, 00:46:21 »
It is meant to look like a 3050/55 Mech. That means Streak 2s.

An authentic 3050 mech would have one streak 2. This is a poor imitation (thankfully)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #98 on: 24 April 2022, 01:01:37 »
An authentic 3050 mech would have one streak 2. This is a poor imitation (thankfully)

One Streak SRM 2?  Like the JVN-10P, BJ-2, DV-7D, WHM-7K, WHM-7S...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #99 on: 24 April 2022, 03:22:37 »
It is meant to look like a 3050/55 Mech. That means Streak 2s.
Feels more like how those 'Mechs should've been. Too many old 'Mechs with Streaks sport excessive ammo to launcher ratio. One ton, one launcher for SSRM-2s is too much, let alone monstrosities that sport two tons and have one launcher.
1 ton of ammo and 3 launchers? The only old 'Mech that pops to my mind that does that is the Snake!

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #100 on: 24 April 2022, 08:14:43 »
The Royal Battlemaster Hellslinger variant has three Streak SRM-2s to make up a 6-missile launcher.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #101 on: 24 April 2022, 09:35:49 »
Someone at Fasa still had it in their head players would be using MGs and Infernos on scores of infantry that few actually deployed in game
The Royal Battlemaster Hellslinger variant has three Streak SRM-2s to make up a 6-missile launcher.
That was also a post Fasa design.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #102 on: 24 April 2022, 11:52:16 »
TBH, even post-FASA 3xSSRM-2 is rather rare, so the Hellslinger is somewhat noteworthy though it has no official record sheet and cannot be recreated exactly with info given (unless you use MWO stats as basis). Of course, ever since SSRM-6s are around, multiple small ones are a rarity.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #103 on: 24 April 2022, 15:24:37 »
It is meant to look like a 3050/55 Mech. That means Streak 2s.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting it should have 4's or 6's instead.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #104 on: 24 April 2022, 17:22:23 »
Certainly. Mechs in TRO3050 and 3055 were notorious for swapping out SRMs for one or more SSRM2s. In cases like the Marauder and Awesome they even gained random SSRM2s. It was probably a mix of new toy syndrome and an obsession with infernos.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #105 on: 24 April 2022, 17:40:58 »
Tex (of the BPL) talks Battletech, just did a Warhammer release yesterday.  Pretty good.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #106 on: 24 April 2022, 20:16:56 »
well the first half is about the baron but i can listen to him all day

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #107 on: 24 April 2022, 20:21:41 »
well the first half is about the baron but i can listen to him all day

Well, little more than a quarter but it's a fun narrative regarding procurement and links to the last 3 Tex Talks nicely.   
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #108 on: 25 April 2022, 20:04:16 »
Certainly. Mechs in TRO3050 and 3055 were notorious for swapping out SRMs for one or more SSRM2s. In cases like the Marauder and Awesome they even gained random SSRM2s. It was probably a mix of new toy syndrome and an obsession with infernos.
It does sorta fit the clan invasion stuff though. Streaks being ammo efficent, and many of those designs being energy heavy, fits the focus on protracted hit and run as the best way to fight the clans when you can't bring in overwhelming numbers to counter their firepower advantage

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #109 on: 25 April 2022, 20:30:41 »
Double Streak 2 might have thought of as good ant-elemental response at the time with Inferno Streak 2 being a option at the time. Now, multiple launchers still give you better odds of hitting something. Not by much but it's something.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #110 on: 26 April 2022, 09:57:09 »
streak 2s where also the only streaks the IS had until ~3060
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #111 on: 26 April 2022, 10:07:47 »
I was talking multiple Streak 2 vs large standard launcher. We already established a few post ago Streak 2s are the only one available in the IS for 3050/55 designs. Also why Streak 2 appeared on so many Mechs that could arguably gone without them.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #112 on: 26 April 2022, 10:15:05 »
Honestly, I am fine with the array of SSRM2s on the Warhammer . . . I mean you are talking a full 16 SRM salvos, which is a much better set up for ammo than a single launcher and a single ton.  But then again, I also favor 2 SSRM4s over a single SSRM6- and especially 3 SSRM4s over a pair of SSRM6s.  You end up not missing ammo (90 vs 100 missiles), more likely to generate hits, and negate some damage loss to AMS.

And since IIRC the CS series of modifications are gun port matches like the RecGuide designs (except maybe the Shad), then it also meets that criteria.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #113 on: 26 April 2022, 12:53:19 »
And since IIRC the CS series of modifications are gun port matches like the RecGuide designs (except maybe the Shad), then it also meets that criteria.

Nah. The CS Phoenix Hawk isn't a match at all either, because the new art has nothing that can pass as a NARC launcher.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #114 on: 27 April 2022, 01:59:52 »
Nah. The CS Phoenix Hawk isn't a match at all either, because the new art has nothing that can pass as a NARC launcher.

Sure but like I said, I would use the gained 1.5 Tons for an AMS upgrade. Imo one of the better ideas of the 7M Whammy.

You would have to drop the 217th point of armor though too.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #115 on: 27 April 2022, 06:11:21 »
The WHM-7CS uses a weapons loadout that's similar to my custom builds, except I usually load a SRM-6 with a ton or two of ammo with CASE and a standard engine, no jump jets.  Sometimes I favor standard PPCs instead of ER PPCs.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #116 on: 27 April 2022, 06:16:08 »
What threw me off is talk about the 8R variant of the Warhammer. I largely never heard of this thing. Has anyone used it?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #117 on: 27 April 2022, 08:43:58 »
What threw me off is talk about the 8R variant of the Warhammer. I largely never heard of this thing.

Well that's because it's the "WYSIWYG" variant from the ilClan RG's. It's essentially brand new.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer
« Reply #118 on: 27 April 2022, 09:07:59 »
Yeah, it's so faithful to the original build that you have a '...wait a moment!' reaction.
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