Operation Revival OmniMech Review: Executioner (Gladiator)

[Maelwys]

Hard to do a IJJ variant when the standard jump jets are fixed equipment on the base chassis :)

[marauder648]

Hard to do a IJJ variant when the standard jump jets are fixed equipment on the base chassis :)

...yes...well spotted...well done you passed the observation test.... <_<    >_> *coughs*

[Savage Coyote]

While a scalpel is the usual description. Putting small amounts of damage in the correct place is certainly correct, but I am not sure it explains things fully. For example a Summoner puts similar damage in the correct place too. What the Executioner buys with its assault frame is armour. Armour (and internal structure) a heavy 'Mech can't carry. So while a Summoner can get into more places than an Executioner, the Executioner will get there in one piece.

The only thing I would point out is the Summoner operates on a higher TMM plane than the Executioner (at least consistently)  While the Executioner can get +3 TMM's on the ground, you can't do it consistently unless you like to live fast and loose, and if you go to bunny hopping all over the map, it'll only ever generate a +2 before factoring in terrain.  I've never blinked at +2 TMM's when shooting at people.  +3 is annoying while +4 is a chore.  +2 is just expected I guess.

Now the I and uh, G(?) that have the super charger and the MASC?  Different story!  I've just never seen the Executioner really "dodge" a lot of bullets like consistently faster units can.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm glad folks liked the review, and no one complained about my use of the NATO Phonetic alphabet! Huzzah!

The novels had always used the NATO designations for omnimech variants.

[grimlock1]

I'm glad folks liked the review, and no one complained about my use of the NATO Phonetic alphabet! Huzzah!

I tend to "read" single letters as NATO words, at least in my head.

[Col.Hengist]

I've  seen people say it moves like a heavy and has the armor of an assault... maybe a 3025 heavy and assault but certainly not a clan heavy or assault. I like this mech, I have 2 in my CHH  force. 13.5 tons of armor, and poorly placed I might add, isn't  all that great. it is on the top end of the 3050 invasion mechs though.

 Like I said, I enjoy using it how it's supposed to be used, just wish the armor placement was better.

[Hellraiser]

I have to disagree CH.
4-8-4 is certainly a match in speed for the "standard" clan Heavy speed of 5-8-0.
259 Points of Armor ties the Warhawk, just edges out the Blood Kite & Savage Coyote, & blows away the Gargoyle & Naga.
The only Omnis w/ more are the Kingfisher & Direwolf which are both designed as slow/zombie gunboats.
I don't see it as being compared to 3025 IS tech at all.

My only complaint about the Ex is that it should have been 10 tons lighter w/ 3 tons more pod space.

[Col.Hengist]

Warhammer 6D, 14 tons of armor,Flashman 7K 13.5, orion 1K 14 tons, archer 2R/2S 13 tons

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

How many of those have Clan Ferro-Fibrous armor?

[Col.Hengist]

Zero. But even the dragon has 13 tons.

[jymset]

259 points = slightly more than 16 tons of armor. As much as the Warhawk and nobody would dream of calling that under-armored.

If the Executioner would redistribute 10 pts from its legs to its front side torsos, it'd be golden.

[Col.Hengist]

That's something I can agree with.

[cold1]

Warhammer 6D, 14 tons of armor,Flashman 7K 13.5, orion 1K 14 tons, archer 2R/2S 13 tons

IS mechs always seem to spend more weight on armor.  Out of universe it means 2-3 of those mechs you listed have a chance of together against an Executioner (or Timberwolf etc).  The IS mechs of the era simply had to have more armor to hold up to the clan machines.

I remember in the mid 90's the old star versus company IS players tried to have 3 times the armor tonnage in a fight as a minimum.  It wasn't an auto win but an IS player who could get a whole lot of armor on the table could usually out last clan mechs.  The counter was lots of big guns for the clan player hoping to kill or cripple IS mechs fast.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The advantage that a Gladiator would have in such a scenario is that none of the ammo-dependent configurations had stupidly shallow ammo bins the way many other 3050 omnimechs tended to and it wouldn't be nearly as easy to pin down as a Masakari.

[TigerShark]

The advantage that a Gladiator would have in such a scenario is that none of the ammo-dependent configurations had stupidly shallow ammo bins the way many other 3050 omnimechs tended to and it wouldn't be nearly as easy to pin down as a Masakari.

Even if they did, it's a configuration. You could substitute anything you wanted.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

You are aware that a lot of players don't allow customized Omnimech configurations, particularly in pick up games, right?

[TigerShark]

You are aware that a lot of players don't allow customized Omnimech configurations, particularly in pick up games, right?

Doesn't matter what people allow or don't allow. There's nothing in the rules to say that an OmniMech's pod configuration is locked. It's certainly not in the fiction, either; custom pod space is the rule in the novels, not the exception. Saying 'canon configurations only" is a house rule, not an official one.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Actually, it's neither.  There's nothing in the rules requiring the use of customized configurations.  And many canon events and tournaments don't allow them.

[Jellico]

IS mechs always seem to spend more weight on armor.  Out of universe it means 2-3 of those mechs you listed have a chance of together against an Executioner (or Timberwolf etc).  The IS mechs of the era simply had to have more armor to hold up to the clan machines.

I remember in the mid 90's the old star versus company IS players tried to have 3 times the armor tonnage in a fight as a minimum.  It wasn't an auto win but an IS player who could get a whole lot of armor on the table could usually out last clan mechs.  The counter was lots of big guns for the clan player hoping to kill or cripple IS mechs fast.

You are looking at a function of the real world effecting the game world.

Armour is a low weight way of making a 'Mech better.

All the way up to TRO3055 all 'Mechs were not afraid to skimp on armour. With their freedom to pick anything players would turn to up armoured variants, but generally there were plenty of 'Mechs that didn't go anywhere near max.

Around TRO3058 the designers started responding to players needs, so that by TRO3067 max armour was the norm.

Unfortunately in the mix the OmniMech's (and OmniFighter's) nature played against it. We got a dozen Marauder variants that could change their armour to their heart's content. At the same time the dozen Timber Wolf variants were stuck with the same armour due to variants being rearranged pod space.

At the same time there were restrictions on introducing new OmniMechs. When you try and introduce a new 'Mech into the game the first question is whether there is and existing 'Mech filling that role. So say you want a new 60 ton OmniMech. Is there a 60 ton OmniMech? Yes. Does it do everything? Yes, its an Omni, that's the point. Then why do you need a new 60 ton OmniMech? And that (in very general terms) is why we were still using the same under armoured 60 ton OmniMech at the same time as the contemporary Grand Dragon gained armour with every variant.

At least MWDA gave us the innovation of II Omnis.

[Hellraiser]

Warhammer 6D, 14 tons of armor,Flashman 7K 13.5, orion 1K 14 tons, archer 2R/2S 13 tons

As noted.  They don't use Clan FFA, which is why I listed POINTS.

Executioner = 259
Warhammer-6D = 217 = 42 Points = Over 2.5 tons more.
Flashman-7K = 216 = 43 Points = Over 2.5 tons more.
Orion-1K = 231 = 28 Points = Over 1.5 tons more.
Archer-2R = 208 = 51 Points = Over 3 tons more.

Those are not exactly typical examples of IS Heavy mechs either.  (Archer is the only "common" one on the list.

Zero. But even the dragon has 13 tons.

Dragon?  Has 10 Tons.  13 Tons would be the original prototype that mounted an AC2 & is now extinct.
DRG-1C  (Early Production) = 201 Points = 58 Points Less = Over 3.5 Tons more.
DRG-1N = 160 Points = 99 Points less = Over 6 Tons More.
DRG-1G (Grand Dragon) = 99 Points less = Over 6 Tons More.


I'm not thrilled with the front torso armor where ALL of its "short of max" comes from.  No denying that.
But I just think of it as a good reason to close into melee & jump behind the enemy w/ your UAC20
You can let them backstab you & know that you can handle being kicked  >:D

[Hellraiser]

Doesn't matter what people allow or don't allow. There's nothing in the rules to say that an OmniMech's pod configuration is locked. It's certainly not in the fiction, either; custom pod space is the rule in the novels, not the exception. Saying 'canon configurations only" is a house rule, not an official one.

Actually, "Official" is exactly what you call a Record Sheet that is canon.
Custom by its very nature is the "House Rule" & not at all the norm.

As for the books, Custom Pod space is anything but the rule in the novels.
Most combat is clearly describing canon configurations unless it happens to be a Trial of Position or your a stand out Officer.

[Hellraiser]

At the same time there were restrictions on introducing new OmniMechs. When you try and introduce a new 'Mech into the game the first question is whether there is and existing 'Mech filling that role. So say you want a new 60 ton OmniMech. Is there a 60 ton OmniMech? Yes. Does it do everything? Yes, its an Omni, that's the point. Then why do you need a new 60 ton OmniMech? And that (in very general terms) is why we were still using the same under armoured 60 ton OmniMech at the same time as the contemporary Grand Dragon gained armour with every variant.

At least MWDA gave us the innovation of II Omnis.

While I get your point Jel,  I have to disagree on the grounds that we managed to get added 75, 70, & a PLETHORA of added 65 ton Omni's in post 3050 products.

[TigerShark]

Actually, it's neither.  There's nothing in the rules requiring the use of customized configurations.  And many canon events and tournaments don't allow them.

There's nothing in the rules requiring infantry, vehicles or 'Mechs, for that matter. Unless there's a specific prohibition, it's allowed. If you make a rule disallowing them, that's fine too. But that's not a BT rule; it's your rule. BTW, Tournaments represent less than 1% of all games played in a year. I'm not really inclined to restrict myself to their rule sets, especially when an entire core rulebook (TechManual) is devoted to equipment and construction rules for entirely custom units.

[TigerShark]

Actually, "Official" is exactly what you call a Record Sheet that is canon.
Custom by its very nature is the "House Rule" & not at all the norm.

As for the books, Custom Pod space is anything but the rule in the novels.
Most combat is clearly describing canon configurations unless it happens to be a Trial of Position or your a stand out Officer.

I'd debate this, but I think the evidence is so overwhelming as to stand on its own. I don't think I've read a single Clan-based novel yet which didn't have alternative configurations, ammo load outs, etc. As for your last statement, that's proven false by Way of the Clans. Aidan pilots custom configurations during his trials, though he was unable to choose the configuration in the second (p. 250). And even then, it was still not a standard, Prime - Z config set. So unless you have a bulk of text stating units being piloted are "Alpha configuration", "Prime config," etc., then I don't know where you're getting that from.

In any event, the Executioner requires custom configs to be competitive. Otherwise, you're going to get swarmed by an enemy and utterly demolished. Either that or you pick the pulse version. Not very many choices.

[marauder648]

I would say that you'd not really need to make a custom weapons fit.  The Exe works well in either the Clan duelling atmosphere or one where Zells in place.

When I played B-tech the Clan honour rules we went by were simple.  No concentrated fire as long as the other guys didn't. As soon as they concentrate fire and go from duelling to massed brawling the DEZGRA!!! and its a free for all.

In a one on one battle against an opposing machine the Exe is generally fast and agile enough to often control the range of the engagement and is generally hard hitting enough that if you've put a good pilot in it (as one would expect as it is an assault mech) then you're going to be hitting hard and often.  And at ranges where other mechs can have issues without resorting to massed fire from all their guns and risking overheating.

In a massed brawl free for all, again the Exe is able to hold its own.  You don't send the thing running hooting and shrieking at a King Crab, it dances around at long range, someone gets close 'MASC Engaged!' and you open the distance or jump into some trees. 

Also with its somewhat limited pod space a custom config would probably be similar to the Alfa config anyhow. Clan Large Pulse laser cheese. Clan Large Pulse laser cheese everywhere.

[TigerShark]

I could easily challenge that. An Inner Sphere swarm completely topples this thing. lol It's almost helpless unless you pick the pulse config.

[marauder648]

in a BV game perhaps, but if you swamed it, Zell goes out the window and its star mates join in and then that swarm gets hit by bug spray.

[Savage Coyote]

I'd debate this, but I think the evidence is so overwhelming as to stand on its own. I don't think I've read a single Clan-based novel yet which didn't have alternative configurations, ammo load outs, etc. As for your last statement, that's proven false by Way of the Clans. Aidan pilots custom configurations during his trials, though he was unable to choose the configuration in the second (p. 250). And even then, it was still not a standard, Prime - Z config set. So unless you have a bulk of text stating units being piloted are "Alpha configuration", "Prime config," etc., then I don't know where you're getting that from.

In any event, the Executioner requires custom configs to be competitive. Otherwise, you're going to get swarmed by an enemy and utterly demolished. Either that or you pick the pulse version. Not very many choices.

If I am told we are playing official units, then that implies official record sheets, which nixes the OmniMechs ability to rearrange/change stuff.  The official record sheets are just that, official.  The same works for the convention games that state the same thing.  All of the novel/fiction examples in the world won't change that.  You won't be able to roll into an official event and tinker with an OmniMech unless explicitly stated it's allowed.

OmniMechs lose out in the real world of the game.  Fiction/in-universe?  You are completely correct!  I think the debate would be more about WHO could customize vs does it happen.

[TigerShark]

If I am told we are playing official units, then that implies official record sheets, which nixes the OmniMechs ability to rearrange/change stuff.  The official record sheets are just that, official.  The same works for the convention games that state the same thing.  All of the novel/fiction examples in the world won't change that.  You won't be able to roll into an official event and tinker with an OmniMech unless explicitly stated it's allowed.

OmniMechs lose out in the real world of the game.  Fiction/in-universe?  You are completely correct!  I think the debate would be more about WHO could customize vs does it happen.

If I am told we are playing official units <-- by whom? i.e.: The book's not telling you, a person or convention is. That's the very definition of 'house rule.'
 
Yes, "who" is very important. Though once they become warriors, Freeborns are just as capable of demanding changes as Trues are from their techs. I'd imagine an officer has more leeway in what they can request, though. i.e.: ground-up custom build vs. swap my SRM rack for an LRM.

[marauder648]

Also i'm not exactly a fan of being able to refit omnis for each battle and go off the configs.  Whats to stop someone from rocking a Dire Wolf with 5 large pulse lasers, a targetting computer and enough heatsinks to fire the lot and move for example.