Author Topic: WSotW - Riga II / York  (Read 35216 times)

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WSotW - Riga II / York
« on: 25 June 2015, 11:28:37 »
Well, it's been a week, so clearly it's time for another WarShip of the-wait, you say it's been how long? What year is this?



IT WORKED!

Riga II / York Destroyer/Carrier



With the advent of Lithium-Fusion Batteries in the 2500s, we saw the advent of strategically fast cruisers that were literally light-years ahead of any other ship, able to respond to crises(or instigate ones of their own) far faster than anyone else, often faster than an enemy could respond to. These vessels quickly assumed the role of troubleshooters, quickly resolving situations that a line squadron wouldn't get to in time, and would probably be overkill for, anyway. (Yes, the SLDF did understand the concept of overkill. Theirs is just a few sigmas to the right of everyone else's.) As time went on, these cruisers were augmented by L-F battleships, at first sparingly by L-F Monsoons, and then in vast numbers by the Mckenna. With these vessels quickly becoming the SLN's tool of choice for problem-solving, and with many Admirals likely salivating at the thought of entire line squadrons of L-F ships, a need arose for an escort vessel that could keep pace with these zippy behemoths. After all, it doesn't matter how big you are, if your job consists of jumping into trouble ahead of everyone else, eventually you will find yourself biting off more than even you can chew.

Enter the Riga II Destroyer/Carrier.

Note: To head off any possible confusion, the name means it is a destroyer and a carrier in a single hull, not a vessel designed to carry destroyers. Here's an example of the latter:


Displacing an even 600 kilotons, the Riga II is somewhat smaller than its more traditional cousins Lola III and Essex, but still comfortably close. A 4/6-rated engine gives the Riga the same sublight performance as the aforementioned Lola, enough to keep up with the cruisers and battleships you're escorting, and maneuver around them on top of that. There's also the added benefit of durability, and a 4/6 curve allows you to absorb an engine crit while still maintaining a decent thrust rating, and another on top of that before you have to start hearing jokes about losing races to Star Lords and Monoliths.

60 points of SI brings a frame just as sturdy as the Essex's, and 20% tougher than the Lola's. Where the Riga II leaves both of those vessels behind is in the armor category. A full two extra coats of magic spraypaint results in a grand total of 640 capital-scale armor points, with the emphasis being on the vital fore and aft facings. That's well over twice the protection of the Lola. Heck, it's even more than you'll find on the Aegis or Avatar heavy cruisers(until recently the mainstay of the fast fleet the Riga is supposed to be escorting), and only a little less than a Cameron-class Battlecruiser. Given that the Riga's job is to stick its nose into trouble(or follow those that are doing the same), I'd say that springing for the super wax was a Good Idea.

The ability to take punishment is only half of the equation for a WarShip, and while we can hardly call the Riga II a gunship, it is certainly no slouch in the offensive department. Large-caliber NACs provide solid punch in the for and broadside arcs, though their bracketing ability is subpar at best, and the bow guns are pretty short-ranged. Fortunately, those nostril cannons are backed up by a nice cluster of particle cannons, and respectable capital laser bays provide defensive fire from the quarter and aft arcs, but while those energy guns let you provide some fire with the range and accuracy usually preferred by the SLN, it's pretty clear that most of your shooting will be done closer in. No worries, this is an escort boat. If nobody closes with you and your charges, you've accomplished your mission.

Like many Star League WarShips, the Riga II is completely lacking in conventional-scale weaponry, and like many Star League WarShips, the Riga II doesn't need 'em. The existing laser batteries can do the job just fine, and as it's been pointed out many times before on this forum, conventional guns are at best an annoyance until you get to the kinds of batteries mounted by such monsters as the Conqueror or Leviathan II. Some capital missile tubes would have been nice, but as you'll see in a moment, the Riga has its own way of dealing with little pests.

Unfortunately, the Riga II's power grid isn't quite up to the challenge of running all of those weapons. The various side arcs don't really tax your heat sinks, though the aft guns will force you to make some sacrifices, and if you want to let loose with those bow guns, don't expect to use much else. You can throw in the broadside NACs, but few of the lasers. Getting surrounded in a Riga II isn't quite the nightmare it is for some other ships, bu it's still something to be avoided.

All this talk about armor and guns, some of you may have forgotten that the Riga II is also a carrier, one of only two known classes deployed by the Star League(barring the ill-fated Enterprise). Thirty-six fighters makes for a very healthy fighter wing, twice that carried by any contemporary cruiser save the Avatar, and still 50% more than that ship's capacity. Between these fighters and the big air wings carried by the Mckenna-class, air superiority seems like a reasonable assumption in almost any engagement. Five shuttle bays and two DropShip collars are almost an afterthought after all of that. While most of those will probably be used for cargo transfers, a wise Riga captain will hopefully remember his ship's role in independent operations, and arrange to bring along at least a couple long-range pickets. Fortunately, the ship's designers also remembered that the Riga's intended mission will take it far away from a regular supply train, and included a seventy-thousand-ton cargo bay for food, office supplies, and all the other little bits needed to keep the ship and her myriad of fighters running.

As it has been noted, the proliferation of the Lithium-Fusion Battery is the entire reason for the Riga II's being, so it goes without saying that the design incorporates one. That being said, it would be silly of me to forget to mention the presence of the equipment that figures so strongly in the Riga's purpose, so here it goes: The Riga II mounts an L-F Battery. There. Done. For thoughts on the usage and implications of L-F technology, I'd look to other WSotW articles, such as the Aegis or Zechetinu.

The Riga II served with excellence with the Star League, and even after that nation's demise it proved to be a very popular part of the Exodus Fleet, and later the various Clan fleets. Makes sense, as the role of a vessel built to fight independently or as part of small task groups instead of big battle fleets hardly saw a change in mission profile when pressed into service by the comparatively miniscule Clan navies, most of whice could barely boast the equivalent of a line division or two best, all of which are 'fast' vessels. A ship that could bring a sizeable aerospace force without bringing the kind of escalation a battleship represented also meant that it meshed well with Crazy Nikky's Trial-based model of warfare. It should thus surprise noone that the Clans kept their Riga IIs in service, and in the early 2900s put them through a massive upgrade, calling the result the York.

For being named an entirely new class, the York is almost identical to the Riga II. I guess truly extensive modifications didn't come into vogue until the time came to crank out the Liberator or Conqueror-classes. Either that, or even the Clans knew enough not to mess with success. Much of the ship is unchanged, with the only real differences being found in the addition of an array of conventional weapons, and the expansion of the fighter decks. Honestly, the only word I can really use to describe the added guns is 'unimpressive'. Most of the bays are only good at the shortest of ranges, and while almost all of them are at least powerful enough to generate crits on attacking squadrons, you're hardly ever going to generate the fatal thresholds needed to quickly knock out fighters. In the face of increasingly lethal OmniFighters, your main defense is still going to be your air wing. That's where the good news lies. You remember how I mentioned the expanded hangars? I meant it. That thiry-six-bird capacity has been bumped up to a full fifty aircraft, equal to the much vaunted Mckenna. What impresses me even more is that unlike the Titan-class DropShip, the use of lighter Clan components means that this expansion not only doesn't eat into your cargo capacity, the bulk storage goes up by almost two kilotons. The added fighters means this is still probably a net loss in operational endurance, but said loss is negligible.

Unlike the Vincent-class, the Riga/York's recommended usage doesn't really change by era. It was built from the outset for the kind of solo operations and small-fleet actions that are the best any post-League navy can deploy. Serendipity! In either case, your ship should not be the center of attention. Your hull is a lot tougher than average, but it's still not indestructible by a long shot, and you're probably a long way from help. If you're on your own, hang back and let your fighters do the heavy lifting. Snipe a bit with your PPC bay or lasers, but do not charge into the thick of things. If you're escorting cruisers or battleships, hang close to your charges. Again, let them do the real fighting, while you use your fighters to either supplement their firepower, or to keep enemy fighters away. Use your guns to discourage DropShips and light WarShips from approaching, or to try and finish off larger vessels opened up by your compatriots. Might actually be a good idea to interpose yourself between your big buddies and the other side for a critical turn or two, as you've got the armor to 'tank' a few salvos, and every turn that a heavy cruiser or battleship on your side doesn't have to worry about incoming fire is a turn that your opponent is seriously regretting life.

Taking down a Rigork is an ugly proposition. As it was described in the Conqueror's writeup, step one is to somehow deal with the fighter wing, as well as any other large craft in the vicinity. The relatively low onboard firepower means that the vessel will likely be pretty low in your targeting priority, and the heavy armor means that when you do turn your attention to it, it'll take a while to kill. There are no real weaknesses in the armor facings, and the healthy thrust curve means it will have MP to spare for rotating fresh armor your way. The limited heat sinks make surrounding a Riga/York seem attractive, but this compounds the heavy armor problem by spreading your damage across more facings. The closest thing it really has to a weakness is the limited range of those heavy bow guns, and the complete lack of capital missiles. Engaging it at ranges of long or beyond will greatly limit its anti-ship capability, and if you just keep pouring fire into it, eventually it should go down.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #1 on: 25 June 2015, 18:43:27 »
I have a hard time actually saying anything in the face of a subject I have absolutely no experience in.
So, would this ship constitute a jack of all trades?
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VhenRa

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #2 on: 25 June 2015, 22:14:41 »
One of the things I find interesting about this class is how many of them survived that bout of unpleasantness with Amaris. 60 of them in commission before that fateful December 27th, 26 of them still mostly intact when it was all over, 22 leaving with Kerensky. SLN had over 250 McKenna in service and yet only 18 of them left with Kerensky.

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #3 on: 25 June 2015, 22:18:12 »
One of the things I find interesting about this class is how many of them survived that bout of unpleasantness with Amaris. 60 of them in commission before that fateful December 27th, 26 of them still mostly intact when it was all over, 22 leaving with Kerensky. SLN had over 250 McKenna in service and yet only 18 of them left with Kerensky.
proof that the best defense is a strong airwing?

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #4 on: 25 June 2015, 22:53:32 »
Also, I've got a feeling they tended to be assigned to more survivable missions. More suppression of smaller bases and escorting troopships. Maybe the Rim Worlders ignored them.
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Weirdo

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #5 on: 26 June 2015, 00:13:54 »
Not so much ignored, but I do think they were given more survivable missions. Rigas are indeed built to go after smaller targets on their own, and to hang back during fleet engagements.  The Rim Worlders weren't ignoring the Rigas, they were simply distracted by fact that for each Riga a fleet might have in the backfield, there were probably three Mckennas, a few Luxors, and an Aegis or two in the foreground, hosing them down with all the firepower only those behemoths can produce. When those are your choices, it tends to affect your targeting priorities a bit. :)
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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #6 on: 26 June 2015, 02:45:55 »
Are there many other Star League-era WarShip classes the Clans liked enough that they actually started building new ones? I know that the first Yorks were based on the six Riga IIs that survived the Pentagon Civil War, and that the Clans then went out and produced more than a dozen new Yorks, but I'm struggling to remember another class where the same thing has been shown to happen. That's one of the things that's always intrigued me about the Riga II.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

marauder648

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #7 on: 26 June 2015, 05:25:05 »
I didn't think the Clans actually produced anything new until they built the Leviathan, everything else came from their caches, even the Conqueror's are just rebuilt Kimagure class ships.  Even with the decimation of the fleet there's enough ships to go around in caches for reactivation, new builds would really require the Clans (other than the Ravens) to think about their fleets as more than ill wanted solhama.

Also a lovely article, good to see WSotW riding again :)  A quick question about the 'magic spraypaint' comment, I assume thats in reference to Btech's magical armour or something?
« Last Edit: 26 June 2015, 07:11:52 by marauder648 »
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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #8 on: 26 June 2015, 05:40:54 »
They definitely made new Yorks - only six Riga IIs survived to be turned into the first Yorks, according to TRO:3057 Revised and Field Report 2765: Periphery, but there are 16 named Yorks in canon. Added to which, Field Manual: Warden Clans mentions on page 46 that there were rumours Clan Coyote had commissioned Clan Snow Raven to build a new York for them, and by Field Manual: Updates, there was a new York in their touman - the CCS Broken Sea. Field Manual: Warden Clans mentions on the same page that this new York that was the subject of the rumours was  the first to be constructed since a batch of a dozen had been constructed more than a hundred years beforehand.

That's why, as I said above, I was so intrigued by the Clans building new Yorks. Everything else I can remember by way of Clan WarShip production was either a refit of an existing ship, or a completely new design. It's only the York that I can remember where they took existing ships, upgraded them, and evidently liked them enough that they made at least thirteen new hulls for the class, although I'm also curious what the names of the missing ships were/who they belonged to.

I think when you say the Leviathans are just rebuilt Kimagures, you're actually thinking of the Conqueror class? The Leviathans were new builds, the Conquerers were extensive refits.

They also produced at least a handful of other homegrown designs from scratch - the Fredasa-class corvette, the Nightlord-class battleship, the Peregrine-class corvette and a Clan Wolf-built WarShip mentioned in Strategic Operations whose name escapes me.
« Last Edit: 26 June 2015, 05:46:24 by BrokenMnemonic »

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VhenRa

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #9 on: 26 June 2015, 05:59:49 »
Molniya class, for that Wolf design. And the Snow Raven's Corone-class. (Both from Strategic Operations).

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #10 on: 26 June 2015, 06:33:45 »
That was insightful and amusing article, Weirdo.  I wish we had more ships for you write about them more often!

When the original TRO:3057 came out, i do wonder if there was plan behind the scheme what these ships were intended. The original write up doesn't mention anything it's actual tasks prior to Amaris Civil War and the Clans except for it great ship, and how many survived Amaris War and Pentagon war.   I always thought the write ups done for the article were just done independently by separate authors.  If it wasn't for the Revised version of the '57, we won't have gotten the Riga Class Frigate. I'm glad they TPTB approved for early version of the ship to be made.

<<Speculation Mode On>>
I think there must been mistakes made in the continuum if BrokenMnemonic found additional hulls of the York Class.

In game logic would make sense the use a successful design if there was more need for more warships in the carrier role.
Again, another logic is why build them when you Trial of (insert your problem)?  WarShips used in Trials must be hair rare save out right war between Clans.  Heck DropShips were considered to be non-combatants.  Yorks makes sense since typically anything Aerospace usually ends up being fighters dueling it out.

Game designer wise, it be super tough bring in new designs when you have to do everything by hand and more importantly focus on core of Battletech being Giant Robotic WarMachine type game.
<<Speculation Mode Off>>
« Last Edit: 26 June 2015, 09:29:34 by Wrangler »
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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #11 on: 26 June 2015, 06:49:00 »
I don't think it's a break in the continuum, not with Field Manual: Warden Clans specifically saying that Clan Snow Raven had built at least a dozen new ships of the class - bearing in mind that between Field Manual: Warden Clans, Field Manual: Crusader Clans, Field Manual: Updates and one other sourcebook whose name escapes me (Invading Clans?) the following ships are all named:

CBS Stooping Kite
CCS Brimstone
CCS Nebulous
CCS The Protector
CCS Broken Sea
CGB Ursa Minor
CHH Stampede
NCS Anna Rosse
CSJ Lioness
CSJ Queen Lynx
CSR Corvidae
CSA Exodus Avenger
CSA Exodus Crusader
CSA Exodus Ranger
CSA Exodus Sentinel
CSA Star Fire

If there were six Riga IIs converted to Yorks, and then the Snow Ravens built another dozen in the 30th century plus the Broken Sea in the 31st century, that's potentially 19 hulls and only 16 names, which is why I'm curious what the others were/who they belonged to.

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

Weirdo

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #12 on: 26 June 2015, 07:07:59 »
A quick question about the 'magic spraypaint' comment, I assume thats in reference to Btech's magical armour or something?

A while back(might even have been a previous incarnation of the forum), someone did the math, considering surface area, tonnage, and whatnot. By their calculation, for WarShip armor to be denser than an aerogel or somesuch, even the most heavily armored shells could only be a millimeter or two thick, at most. Any more, and be prepared to add a few thousand tons to the mass of every design.

Fortunately, it has no bearing on rules, so we've no need to actually care about it at all aside from jokes like that.

That was insightful and amusing article, Weirdo.  I wish we had more ships for you write about them more often!
Thanks!
Quote
Again, another logic is why build them when you Trial of (insert your problem)?

Because Trials have varying degrees of scale. You'll note that the Clans also deploy troops by the Galaxy, when Trials involving barefisted wrestling exist. Trials escalate(especially when a Trial concerns the existence of an entire Clan), and even the Clans aren't foolish enough to not be prepared for extremes. They also acknowledge that not EVERYONE fights by Trial, so they do need to be prepared. Finally, there's the fact that even among the Clans, SafCon is purely optional. You wanna Trial for that factory, but the warriors of Clan Noisy Limpet don't even want you in their system? You'd best have some aero and naval forces to get your warriors to the Trial zone.
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marauder648

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #13 on: 26 June 2015, 07:28:45 »
Thank ye for correcting me :) I honestly didn't know the clans produced any hulls but then again I kinda forgot about the Nightlord and Freddy.  It was early when I was typing and i'd not yet had my tea :)

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #14 on: 26 June 2015, 08:13:40 »
Even the Clans understand the power of caffeine. :)
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marauder648

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #15 on: 26 June 2015, 08:28:23 »
Seyla! 

Will we be seeing more Warships of when we can get round to them in the future?  I'd do a review myself but I have NO idea how to play with warships and i'd not do it justice.
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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #16 on: 26 June 2015, 08:38:56 »
Must likely. It's all based on mood and whim, but I'm in an Aero place right now. Who knows how long it'll last before my attention swings to something like B5 instead, but I'll try to get at least one more article out before then.
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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #17 on: 26 June 2015, 08:40:32 »
For possible in-universe explanations of why the Clans built so many Yorks I would think it would be a combination of factors: the Riga II/York is reasonably small making it much easier and cheaper to build to the infrastructure to then build the ships themselves; perhaps most important, it's a carrier, and so meshes well with the ASF being one of the primary combat units of Clan warfare; and finally, the survivability may have been noted, making it an appealing choice in that regard.

On the last point, the Clans may have realized that the survivability owes as much to the lower intensity missions assigned to the Riga II or the abundance of more important targets, but they weren't exactly planning high intensity naval warfare among themselves. The Riga II design was probably deemed adequate for the expected level of intra-Clan naval combat.

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #18 on: 26 June 2015, 09:03:45 »
Makes sense, with their save everything/use the minimum forces for max gain mindset the Clans would not throw a McKenna at a world unless it was REALLY needed and even then it would probably be seen as an obscenely large escalation of force. 
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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #19 on: 26 June 2015, 09:31:12 »
proof that the best defense is a strong airwing?
Maybe.

It is important to remember that the fleet basically survived the Periphery basically intact. It wasn't till the fleet hit the CASPARs that the losses started to pile up. What is the AI going to judge as the most appropriate target? Riga II or McKenna? Armour is passive defence. It only helps a single ship. Guns help the whole squadron. The guns to armour rations say you get more effect killing the McKenna.

With NACs as the primary hurty weapons on a Riga II it is going to want to get up close. And it packs a lot of armour.

So that leads me to speculate that the Riga II is the anvil to a McKenna's hammer. McKennas require sea room to be effective. Play a game with a bracketing McKenna vs a Mjolnir to see what I mean. I see the Riga II's role to be a speed bump, which goes along with the unusual armour over firepower design.


Another thing to remember is that the air wing is point defence. CAP if you will. The McKenna's and Riga II's fighters won't be traveling far from the ships. It is the four to eight Titans that will be delivering the hundred ASF out on the threat axis.

Weirdo

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #20 on: 26 June 2015, 09:35:08 »
There are plenty of reasons to send a battleship. First of, if you expect your target to have a similarly powerful force defending it, not bringing your own is just dumb. Nobody would be stupid enough to try and raid Lum, Huntress, or New Kent without a suitable escort, as to do otherwise would mean instant death for your ground troops if SafCon were denied.

The Clans are also big on symbolism. Even if you don't intend to use it in the fight, bringing a large WarShip is a good way to honor your opponent(By bringing such a powerful asset to our fight, I demonstrate my respect for your strength.),  or to express anger or contempt(Siddown and SHUT UP, or so help me, I will convert this one-Laborer town you call an enclave into a glowing crater!), even if you don't intend to use this ship in combat.

That being said, I do agree that the York is probably much more suited to most Trial situations.
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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #21 on: 26 June 2015, 09:56:55 »
I wonder, what exactly did the clans expect would happen in the sphere?
I mean, they were certainly surprised that it went down that far, but what if it didn't?
What if the first report from Wolfs Dragoons had been "Yeah, so they have at least two naval divisions per house"?
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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #22 on: 26 June 2015, 10:09:38 »
I wonder, what exactly did the clans expect
This phrase is hilarious, as it implies that the Clans overall did anything other than assume their best-case scenario. ;D
Quote
What if the first report from Wolfs Dragoons had been "Yeah, so they have at least two naval divisions per house"?

That's a discussion that needs its own thread.
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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #23 on: 26 June 2015, 10:23:59 »
This phrase is hilarious, as it implies that the Clans overall did anything other than assume their best-case scenario. ;D

Yeah, but there had to be a difference in what qualified as best case. The Ravens must have hoped for a chance to bring out their own fleet, instead of living on the sidelines.

As for the Yorks themselves, do they really carry a 5 Stars of fighters? Between those, the small craft, and whatever's on the Dropships, you've got close to a Cluster loaded on a destroyer!
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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #24 on: 26 June 2015, 10:28:13 »
Ayup. :)

When you bring a York, you don't need no steenking safcon! >:D
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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #25 on: 27 June 2015, 06:04:33 »
I wonder, what exactly did the clans expect would happen in the sphere?

That would imply that the Smoke Jaguars and Falcons... heck that any of the clans besides the Wolves put any thought at all towards the actual invasion bit and not what they were going to do when THEY became IlClan afterwards.

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #26 on: 27 June 2015, 06:21:35 »
That would imply that the Smoke Jaguars and Falcons... heck that any of the clans besides the Wolves put any thought at all towards the actual invasion bit and not what they were going to do when THEY became IlClan afterwards.

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #27 on: 14 July 2015, 19:34:22 »
Are there many other Star League-era WarShip classes the Clans liked enough that they actually started building new ones?
Not that we know off.  However, while there has been no mention of them doing it like there was with the York, IIRC, the #'s of Texas & Black Lion classes do not add up.  So either the surviving SLDF figures or Pentagon figures were off, or some that were destroyed where salvaged, or 1 or both of those 2 classes had some added ships built.  I'm inclined to go with #'s being off myself.

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #28 on: 14 July 2015, 19:36:24 »
Thanks for the great article.  Its hands down my favorite warship class.

Question.....  When/Where did we finally get stats for the Riga-II ?

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Re: WSotW - Riga II / York
« Reply #29 on: 14 July 2015, 19:40:49 »
Field Report 2765, Periphery. Be patient on the art, we're waiting for errata.
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