Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord  (Read 18337 times)

VensersRevenge

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 839
  • Is this the real life...
'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« on: 28 July 2019, 19:53:24 »
‘Mech of the Week: Warlord
Inner Sphere
TRO 3075
   
Technical Readout 3075 was an odd TRO. After a new Technical Readout every few in-game years from 3050-3067 with dozens of Inner Sphere ‘Mechs, 3075 had only fifteen in the new developments section. With a full six of those slots being devoted to the WoB’s Celestials, the other Inner Sphere factions only had a couple selections each. In fact, the Warlord is the only assault ‘Mech not built by the Word of Blake. But it is a high quality one. Between the chaos of the FedCom Civil War and the opening stages of the Jihad in the Federated Suns, the AFFS apparently felt that a durable flashbulb design was necessary. GM decided to base this new ‘Mech on the Battlemaster, and needed assistance in gaining the schematics for the design. The El Dorado branch of the Davion family, the Sanromea-Davions, stepped in and acquired the plans for GM, who built the Warlord on El Dorado. Although the Warlord’s aesthetics are clearly based on the Battlemaster, and according to information on sarna.net, that is what it was based on out of universe as well. But to me, the Warlord is a completely different ‘Mech. It is a flashbulb Thug. Whatever ‘Mech the Warlord is based on, the more important question is if House Davion got an assault ‘Mech worth buying. To see that, we will have to examine the variants individually, as they have very different chasses.

Warlord BLR-2D:
   The base variant of the Warlord in TRO 3075 is the 2D, and it is built extremely tough. Using only endosteel for advanced construction materials, the 2D variant of the Warlord is a very durable 80 ton ‘Mech. With no ammo or engine crits in the side torsos, the only way to kill the Warlord is to rip it to pieces. And that is difficult when you have to shoot through 14.5 tons or 94% of the maximum standard armour to get into the internal structure. The Warlord can run 64 km/h, allowing it to keep up with heavies like the Jagermech, Marauder, or Black Knight as well as assault ‘Mechs like the Victor or the Battlemaster it is inspired by. However being well-armoured and extremely durable means nothing if the Warlord can’t kill anything, so let’s look at the armament. The Warlord is a bracket-firer, using either it’s two arm mounted heavy PPC’s or it’s six torso mounted ER Medium lasers. One thing to note is that unlike the Warhammer or Marauder, the Warlord still has its hand actuators for two 8 point punches in melees. Now this isn’t the most inspiring firepower ever, only a max of sixty points in a turn and considering it only has sixteen double heat sinks the Warlord is going to be hard put to do more than 40 points in all but the most desperate situations. But the sheer durability of the Warlord and its energy loadout means it is going to keep firing turn after turn, and two reasonably long-ranged headcappers is nothing to be sneezed at. While the Warlord cannot simply brutalize everything it’s path, it will keep fighting for as long as is necessary, exactly what the FedSuns needed during the Jihad.

Warlord 2Dr:
   A refit of the 2D, the 2Dr  makes no changes to the engine, heatsinks, structure, or armour. It adds a C3 slave and TSM; and modifies the short range loadout to four ER Mediums, a Medium Pulse, a regular medium, and a Small Pulse Laser. This puts the Warlord three tons overweight, and the weight is gained by dropping one of the Heavy PPCs for an ER PPC. While gaining some range is nice, I feel like losing the second headcapper really hurts the Warlords capabilities. So the question is if the short range gains are worth the cost. Adding C3 is undoubtedly useful for Davion C3 lances, although coming out during the ECM glutted Jihad limits the value of C3. TSM is undoubtedly useful in keeping the Warlord mobile as it gets hotter, and can allow for devastating melee attacks. But the changes in energy armament make the close range damage much less consistent. Especially with the loss of long range damage, the short range armament has to be more damaging, and the mismatched weapon ranges make it difficult to consistently use. Is this variant worthless? No, but I don’t think it is worth taking over the 2D unless you really need a C3 capable Warlord.

Warlord 2G:
   While El Dorado could make the vast majority of the Warlord components, it did not have the orbital facilities necessary to produce endo-steel. It could produce the needed materials for XL engines though. The 2G variant uses the XL engine to not only remove the endo-steel, but to add the last ton of armour the Warlord can mount and to revamp the close range weapons. Defensively, this is a clear loss. While getting the last one of armour is nice, the side torsos only gain one point of armour which simply is not going to help. So if the Warlord is now vulnerable to side torso destruction and has more engine slots to be crit, does the short range firepower make up for it? Well, it certainly is exciting. Instead of six ER Medium lasers, it has twelve regular mediums of which two are rear-facing. This makes the close range firepower fifty damage instead of thirty, and let’s the Warlord protect it’s back. Is this better? Clearly, but the question is how much better when compared to the sharp decrease in survivability. According to the Battle Value, the answer is not much. If you are fighting in open areas where range is more important, the 2D is much better. But it might be worth the loss of survivability for a powerful close range punch in an urban fight. I prefer the 2D, but the 2G is still a useful choice.

Warlord BLR-2XC:
This one is weird. Being found in XTRO Phantoms, it is very different than the other Warlords. To begin with, it is only 75 tons. This means that it has less internal structure, weaker melee attacks, and it mounts half a ton less armour than the 2D. The 2XC still moves 64 km/h with an XL engine and has normal structure and armour. The armaments are simple, two ER PPC’s and six ER Medium lasers. No headcappers hurts, but Warhammers have done it for centuries and it worked fine for them.   While the weapons are uninspired, the equipment choices make this Warlord a worthy XTRO project. Clearly built as a Command ‘Mech, not only mounting a Command Console but also C3i. An odd choice for a Davion ‘Mech, but whatever. I guess they were experimenting at the time. It also includes an Angel ECM suite, a Bloodhound Active Probe, a TAG, and a Remote Sensor Dispenser. This lets the commander riding in the Console to be hard to target with advanced electronics and create Ghost Targets, sniff out hidden units that might ambush it, and drop super accurate artillery on anyone who gets close. This is a good command ‘Mech if you have a commander that, you know, commands instead of getting into the thick of the fighting. But being a lighter variant without the trademark Heavy PPCs makes it not feel like a Warlord.

Fighting with a Warlord depends on the variant. I am only going to talk about the two main variants, because those are the ones most people are going to fight with and against most often. With the 2D, you mostly want to stay in mid-ranges. I would probably lean more on the PPCs than the lasers, but you are mostly relying on being impossible to kill. With the 2G, while you will use the PPCs closing, you really want to be right in the enemies face taking advantage of laser spam and melee attacks. Fighting Warlords is the same for both variants, just a matter of degrees. Neither of them have very much range, as the PPC range simply is not what it was in 3025, so LRMs and ERPPCs are a good way to kill Warlords with no threat of headcaps. This is even more important, and easier, when facing the 2G, as ten medium lasers is not something you want to get close to. Heat based weapons are also useful, as the heat balance is very precise. The Warlord was built to fight long battles far from supplies, and it certainly delivers. Now tell me how you have used the Warlord in the comments below.
MUL: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3509/warlord-blr-2d
Camospecs: http://camospecs.com/Search/Index?Term=Warlord
« Last Edit: 29 July 2019, 14:33:19 by VensersRevenge »
...Is this just fantasy?
Warship Arms Race III
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84031.0

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25820
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #1 on: 28 July 2019, 20:15:18 »
My biggest complaint about the Warlord is that the mini was produced when IWM was having its "scale? What's that?" Phase and is ridiculously large.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #2 on: 28 July 2019, 20:26:00 »
Not a fan of the Warlord. Feels too much like an optimized version of the BattleMaster.
And the 2xPPCs of some type, 4/6 movement, and supporting armament has been done so many times. The Warhammer, Marauder, Royal BattleMaster, Thug, Hatamoto, along with many others.
Sure, the Warlord is good, but i'll pick something else than Warlord for the role, something more interesting or just something more classic.

The "Phantom" Warlord has some of the weirdest equipment placing i've ever seen. Most 'Mechs just omit arm actuators or something rather than going for full on weirdness.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25820
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #3 on: 28 July 2019, 21:27:41 »
The 2d also feels a lot like a non-jumping Penetrator.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Kidd

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #4 on: 28 July 2019, 22:30:06 »
It basically IS an optimised Battlemaster with Penetratoresque armament.

And then in short order came the Sphinx and Lament

Rather disappointing

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8157
    • Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #5 on: 29 July 2019, 07:23:05 »
The Warlords a very powerful if a bit dull. Its what happens when you leave a Thug and a Penetrator in a hangar. At mid to short ranges this thing will murder stuff quite happily and vent heat very well. Its also a pain to knock out as its stuffed with heatsinks and carries no explodium either.

I do suggest a lil edit of the article itself, as its one HUGE paragraph that can be a bit hard to read, but otherwise, good job :)
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs - https://thezhukovau.wordpress.com/

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21740
  • Third time this week!
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #6 on: 29 July 2019, 07:24:48 »
I could forgive the Warlord, bland as it is, if someone else built it. But we just got a beefy flashbulb from the Feddies in '67 with the Sagittaire, and it kind of feels like that was enough- a variant of the Sag with a Warlord-ish loadout would have been fine by me, but why the Feds would build two similar designs within a few years of each other- particularly with resources strained after so many years of constant conflict, Jihad included- is beyond me.

Boring Mech to use, boring in looks, awful miniature. Absolutely forgettable Mech.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

mbear

  • Stood Far Back When The Gravitas Was Handed Out
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4498
    • Tower of Jade
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #7 on: 29 July 2019, 08:11:31 »
Warlord 2G: Instead of six ER Medium lasers, it has twelve regular mediums of which two are rear-facing. This makes the close range firepower fifty damage instead of thirty, and let’s the Warlord protect it’s back.

Explaining the 2G's rear mounted medium lasers: They're an homage to the BLR-1G.

Warlord BLR-2XC:
This one is weird. Being found in XTRO Phantoms, it is very different than the other Warlords. To begin with, it is only 75 tons. The armaments are simple, two ER PPC’s and six ER Medium lasers.

It basically IS an optimised Battlemaster with Penetratoresque armament.

If memory serves, I think Cray(?) said he built this design originally at 75 tons to show that a BattleMaster could be optimized for production as a heavy 'Mech.

In fact, the XTRO:Phantoms Warlord 2XC entry says:
Quote
El Dorado has thus
reportedly designed a somewhat lighter, streamlined model that
could use more common parts than the 320-rated engine and
four-ton gyroscope of prior Warlord models. The reported “BLR-
2E” is supposedly stalled because of production problems with
“powder metallurgy endo steel” that can be built in a planetary
gravity well,

So I'm going to speculate: The 2XC was designed with the 2E plans as a starting point. Since the Suns has several Marauder lines, producing a 4/6 75-tonner should be fairly straightforward. But the endo steel failed so they went with a standard frame and XL engine. Dropping the 2XC's electronics equipment would free room for more and heavier weapons as well, like the Heavy PPCs of the original 2D.
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28991
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #8 on: 02 August 2019, 11:28:20 »
I want to say the story was it WAS originally a 75t mech and when putting together the TRO they needed something heavier so it got bumped up and assigned to the FS to fill the slot for them.

I used one to pound at folks in my group's tournament last year, unsurprisingly it performed pretty well just wading forward in most games until one game where it was only taking damage to one location- then had the head blown off IIRC.  Unsurprisingly I lost that game since it was waddling forward to go after a top gun assault.  It chewed that assault, but my force was mostly spent and I was trying to not get wiped out.

Not a fan of the mini at all, tried cutting up a AS Lance pack Cyclops to make something better.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25640
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #9 on: 02 August 2019, 13:36:05 »
Kitbashing is possible. This used all DA parts, plus a little balsa wood - Scourge torso, Panther arms, and the legs escape me but it was a brick-like medium IIRC.



And yup, there are a bunch I'd recomission when I won my millions  ::) - Grand Titan, Grand Crusader, Warlord.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21740
  • Third time this week!
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #10 on: 03 August 2019, 12:02:41 »
...you forgot the Kraken and Galahad in there, chief.  :thumbsup:

(Oh, and the Griffin IIC. You know, THAT one...)

Anyway. Warlord mini. The fact that the wrist-mounted PPC ports aren't really aimed where the arms are pointing weirds me out- I get it, to an extent, but it just looks weird- I'd rather they have been mounted sort of like the PPC on the reseen Wolverine, on the outside of the wrist rather than built into it for that reason.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Luciora

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5808
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #11 on: 03 August 2019, 12:33:28 »
Hmm..I'd probably use a Zeus as a starting base for a Warlord if I were to kitbash one.  Then you can pick and choose arms.

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25640
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #12 on: 03 August 2019, 15:00:30 »
The Kraken XR is a great base for making older Banes, particularly the Bane 2. You have to saw off the LRMs, though. The Reseen Viper is also great once you saw off the side torsos to bring the size back down. And the Galahad is salvageable; all you need is replacement legs, waist, and guns ... (will post pics with very little encouragement).
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #13 on: 03 August 2019, 15:03:33 »
When you say "Galahad", do you mean the Glass Spider or the Star League Galahad?

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25640
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #14 on: 03 August 2019, 15:07:40 »
Glass Spider - the Reseen. Appears to be part of the first generation of CAD designs with 3D printed prototypes (see also Grand Crusader), that due to "state of the art" at the time lack the level of details you get from hand-sculpted masters. The state of the art has moved on considerably since those minis.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #15 on: 03 August 2019, 15:09:37 »
Thought so. The Glass Spider sculpt looks horrible IMO. The Galahad seems pretty neat... just haven't gotten around assembling it, let alone so many others...

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25640
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #16 on: 03 August 2019, 15:12:33 »
My remake just uses the upper torso & frisbee ... Just painting up an old lead Glass Spider at the moment, nice mini for that period. Never had a SL Galahad, agree it looks nice - how many pieces?
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #17 on: 03 August 2019, 15:18:59 »
My remake just uses the upper torso & frisbee ... Just painting up an old lead Glass Spider at the moment, nice mini for that period. Never had a SL Galahad, agree it looks nice - how many pieces?
Torso, legs, arm spruce.

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25640
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #18 on: 03 August 2019, 15:29:23 »
Well, sounds like that goes on my next IWM buy list. Once my wallet (and wife) recover from the KS ... ;)
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

LastChanceCav

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2519
  • Repossessing the dispossessed ...
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #19 on: 03 August 2019, 20:39:53 »
The warlord is straight up vanilla, never my first choice, but I'll still enjoy it if I don't have another option. I always felt the same way about the Thug.

Cheers,
LCC
Last Chance Engineering - Bespoke Battlemechs for the refined gentleperson.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25820
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #20 on: 03 August 2019, 21:25:52 »
The positioning of the Warlord's PPCs actually makes sense, given that it's intended to wade into combat and start throwing punches.  Still looks weird, though.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19853
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #21 on: 03 August 2019, 21:41:33 »
team "I'm shooting you with $10 worth of tin"

boring competence isn't my first go-to (except the Ryoken Prime. it can stay)

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

LegoMech

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #22 on: 04 August 2019, 01:16:06 »
Thanks for the write-up! This is a mech I see mentioned a lot but I was never very familiar with. This really helped me get to know what it's all about.

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #23 on: 04 August 2019, 07:50:19 »
I dunno.
It's a good article.
But, there just isn't much to be said about the design. It mostly just has two weapon systems, no ammo... at least it's a bracket firer, or it would be completely boring.
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28991
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #24 on: 04 August 2019, 18:31:06 »
Someone left a Awesome 8Q and a Hunchback 4P alone in the dropship too long . . .

Its not complicated to use, as mentioned . . . you just shove it up the middle and watch folks get out of the way.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3451
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #25 on: 05 August 2019, 11:14:13 »

I’m gonna go against the trend in this thread, and say that I wish there were more simple, straightforward, efficient, effective, even brutal designs like the Warlord in the game.  As the lengthy threads on “Mech Designs That Make No Sense” up on the Ground Combat board indicate, the canon seems littered with way too many designs that don’t match their fluffed mission or role, that are severely flawed and suboptimal, or are just confused amalgamations of weapons or technologies.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with unusual designs to fill some dueling function for Solaris VII games or one-on-one Clan trials.  I’m also fine with unusual designs to fill combat niches in different armies.  Or even the occasional flawed/failed experimental design that is still pressed into combat due to circumstances.

But I also look through the TROs and wonder, “Where are the standardized and highly effective T-34s for BattleTech?  Where are the efficient STuGs and Shermans?”  Long before Star League and Clan tech, I used to home grow Warlord-type designs (dual peepers, massed medium lasers, adequate sinks for bracket firing, thick armor).  And then I wondered why designs like that didn’t appear in the TROs in addition to the flawed Warhammers, Marauders, and Awesomes with their thin armor, inadequate heat sinks, ammo bombs, and/or exposed minimum ranges?

For me, there’s as much enjoyment in using terrain and tactics to my advantage with solid, effective, standardized designs on both sides as there is in treating each engagement as a series of duels between flawed designs trying to cover/exploit their weaknesses.  The former is more like real combat, which I wish we had a little bit more of in BT, versus the fantasy gladiatorial robowars designs and combat style.

So I say give us more Warlord and Marauder II and Hellstar types of designs.  I’m trying to run army units here, not Islands of Misift Toys.  My 2 Kerenskys... YMMV.

« Last Edit: 06 August 2019, 00:19:11 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9592
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #26 on: 06 August 2019, 08:48:18 »
Above.

This forum seems to love niche designs, everything else is ether under optimized or over optimized.

The Warlord was design to be a brute and does the job very well. It's up there with a few SLDF era designs that people still drool over while still being true to it's own era in design.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #27 on: 06 August 2019, 08:48:58 »
So I say give us more Warlord and Marauder II and Hellstar types of designs.  I’m trying to run army units here, not Islands of Misift Toys.  My 2 Kerenskys... YMMV.
I hear you.  The quirky stuff has its place, and can be fun, but we're all trying to win a war here.  We need troopers.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

mbear

  • Stood Far Back When The Gravitas Was Handed Out
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4498
    • Tower of Jade
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #28 on: 06 August 2019, 10:02:56 »
Anyway. Warlord mini. The fact that the wrist-mounted PPC ports aren't really aimed where the arms are pointing weirds me out- I get it, to an extent, but it just looks weird- I'd rather they have been mounted sort of like the PPC on the reseen Wolverine, on the outside of the wrist rather than built into it for that reason.

Just finished looking at the mini over on Camospecs. Those PPCs look like they're mortars of some sort. Or maybe loudspeakers.

Anyone know how hard is it to remove them and build up the base of the PPCs so they rest on the forearm and point the right direction?
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)

Luciora

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5808
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #29 on: 06 August 2019, 10:07:41 »
Would need dremel work.  They take up a nice part of the arm its attached to.

Just finished looking at the mini over on Camospecs. Those PPCs look like they're mortars of some sort. Or maybe loudspeakers.

Anyone know how hard is it to remove them and build up the base of the PPCs so they rest on the forearm and point the right direction?

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #30 on: 06 August 2019, 10:25:42 »
The thing with boring designs is you can't really talk about them much.
And talk is all we do on this forum, even though technically we're writing.
Yes, I very much appreciate a few designs that make sense, I've created them myself, but they are rarely occupying my mind for long. People remember what sticks out.
If an optimised design receives a lot of attention, it is either sickeningly good, or it has an obvious flaw due to its role, like the Schildkröte.
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28991
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #31 on: 06 August 2019, 10:27:51 »
If an optimised design receives a lot of attention, it is either sickeningly good, or it has an obvious flaw due to its role, like the Schildkröte.

What is wrong with the Turtle Tank?  Guns, Armor or Speed- pick 2 . . . you know which two it picked.  Of course, I DO want to see the Schildkröte C made from turtle tanks the Horses captured during their partnership with the Falcons.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #32 on: 06 August 2019, 10:48:58 »
Yes, it plays to its role very well. But it is out of the norm for a 50 ton high tech vehicle to move 3/5, so people take note. And you get nice debates between those deeming the speed unacceptable and those thinking it is rather munchy. A design like the Warlord here, where everyone just thinks "that probably works", doesn't inspire that level of dispute. Of course, tptb need to keep in mind that designs in BT stick around forever, so you just can't sell too many of those before they are just a copy of something existing.
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25820
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #33 on: 06 August 2019, 11:05:41 »
The other thing about mechs like the Warlord or especially the Hellstar is that they are rather boring to play.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #34 on: 06 August 2019, 11:11:02 »
The Warlord works but it is utterly boring. I think one can have a solid, smart trooper without being boring. Not to mention a smidgen more flexibility, if i'm unsure what my opponent's bringing.

If i want dual ERPPC or dual HPPCs on a trooper, i'll pick the Warhammer 8D or 8K (both are tough and run cool too). An updated classic, and a heavy 'Mech to boot rather than an overgrown heavy.
If XL engines are OK, the Marauder has several good variants (and several not so good ones) or later on the Carronade or Lament.

Granted, stuff varies by era and faction. Unfortunately in this regard the Warlord is a bit limited, being Jihad and later design, and limited to FedSuns and Republic.
And i suppose some factions could do with solid troopers on earlier eras.

I dispute NK's comment about T-34s and Shermans. The Warlord isn't that, being far too heavy and expensive. Generally speaking IS armies have more medium designs, so i'd say T-34 and Sherman equivalent workhorses should fall into medium or low-end heavy category.
Incidentally the Warhammer/Warlord/the like can be emulated with 60 ton chassis and standard fusion engine...

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19853
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #35 on: 06 August 2019, 11:15:14 »
but we're all trying to win a war here.

speak for yourself. literally the only thing i try at is to be an unholy nuisance. Yawns McBracketfire is not going to serve that end

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28991
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #36 on: 06 August 2019, 11:35:12 »
As a wargamer I understand what he is saying . . . for me, its ok as a wargamer simply b/c I want my equipment to be multi-purposed.  The Warlord fails b/c I get only energy weapons . . . no electronics, no missile weapons for alt munitons, no AA capability.  Its a weaker version of the mechs that make up the Lyran Wall of Steel (Thunderhawk, Devastator, Atlas, Cerb, Hauptman configs- anything 3/5 @ 90-100t that just mounts ERPPC/GR/HGR with some token Med Lasers) which are tactically limited to striking other plodders.  If I bring in a bunch of VTOLs, even the ones certain parties dislike b/c they are massed short range weapons, then those plodders are going to have problems hitting them if swarmed that way.  They are also going to have problems with lots of light hovertanks, or BA, or to play the range game faster Clan designs with cERLL . . . or being under proper artillery.

The tactics they call for have all of the subtlety of a mace, you are supposed to just slam those mechs into someone's face.  All of my other units were designed for mobility, AA, electronics, ranged fire and munition options because ALL the Warlord did was shoot.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Kidd

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #37 on: 06 August 2019, 12:19:00 »
Yes it's true that there are too many terrible designs, and trust me, no one knows this better than a fielder of PNT-10Ks. But the Warlord is the pendulum swung too far the other way. It's super efficient to the point of boredom, and has boring fluff and looks to boot. (Yes, I eat vanilla ice cream more often than anything else; no it won't be anywhere near my top 10 flavour list.)

And as I said earlier, it comes in on a niche that has already been occupied. The T-34 of AFFS Heavy Mechs should be the Penetrator. If you want another 75t frontline heavy, fine - give it different weapons. At best this renders the Warlord a mook Mech, worse still, a filler mook Mech.

What I, and I think other players, look for in Hero Mechs is a balanced weakness. The Mech has to be good of course, it has to excel in a chosen field - often, to do that, it has to be deficient in other areas.... a calculated risk rather than either bland efficiency or a haphazard jumble. IMHO the Lament beats the Warlord in this area.

I agree with Colt that a Mech lance should be diverse in capability even if they all are of the same function. That's what Battletech is about.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28991
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #38 on: 06 August 2019, 13:14:57 »
Yes it's true that there are too many terrible designs, and trust me, no one knows this better than a fielder of PNT-10Ks. But the Warlord is the pendulum swung too far the other way. It's super efficient to the point of boredom, and has boring fluff and looks to boot. (Yes, I eat vanilla ice cream more often than anything else; no it won't be anywhere near my top 10 flavour list.)

And as I said earlier, it comes in on a niche that has already been occupied. The T-34 of AFFS Heavy Mechs should be the Penetrator. If you want another 75t frontline heavy, fine - give it different weapons. At best this renders the Warlord a mook Mech, worse still, a filler mook Mech.

What I, and I think other players, look for in Hero Mechs is a balanced weakness. The Mech has to be good of course, it has to excel in a chosen field - often, to do that, it has to be deficient in other areas.... a calculated risk rather than either bland efficiency or a haphazard jumble. IMHO the Lament beats the Warlord in this area.

I agree with Colt that a Mech lance should be diverse in capability even if they all are of the same function. That's what Battletech is about.

Eh, I am not going to say its efficient . . . the HPPCs weight more than a cERPPC and have sorter range for the same effect.  And I do not think the Penetrator is a good comparison since its long range guns get half the damage and for most its secondary array is 50-66% of the range the Warlord has . . . yeah, its a fat heavy.  Its good at what it does, but its not great . . . and I would not put it in the same category of a Hellstar, stealth Pillager, or Thunderhawk . . . its close, but not quite the same.

The mini is ugly, and that is about the most I am going to get worked up about a plain design.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

gyedid

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2582
  • Always brighter on the other side of the mirror.
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #39 on: 11 August 2019, 18:49:06 »
Quote
El Dorado has thus
reportedly designed a somewhat lighter, streamlined model that
could use more common parts than the 320-rated engine and
four-ton gyroscope of prior Warlord models. The reported “BLR-
2E” is supposedly stalled because of production problems with
“powder metallurgy endo steel” that can be built in a planetary
gravity well,

Does that possibly mean endo-composite structure?

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

gyedid

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2582
  • Always brighter on the other side of the mirror.
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #40 on: 11 August 2019, 18:51:40 »
I could forgive the Warlord, bland as it is, if someone else built it. But we just got a beefy flashbulb from the Feddies in '67 with the Sagittaire, and it kind of feels like that was enough- a variant of the Sag with a Warlord-ish loadout would have been fine by me, but why the Feds would build two similar designs within a few years of each other- particularly with resources strained after so many years of constant conflict, Jihad included- is beyond me.


What happened to the Sagittaire's factory during the Jihad?  Did it survive (mostly) intact or was it trashed?

In any event, I believe that as of the 3150s, both Robinson and El Dorado are under Combine occupation...

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25024
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #41 on: 12 August 2019, 07:16:26 »
Good question.  I know that the Atlas III was produced there,  but Robinson had a civil war of sorts so its hard to say what exactly happened. It wasn't in the Wars of the Republic era historical.

El Dorado production could have been cut by the time of the Dark Age happened due to economics of Succession State cutting down their Mech force down to 35 percent.  Warlord would been one those causalities of the budget ax.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19853
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #42 on: 12 August 2019, 08:47:10 »
What happened to the Sagittaire's factory during the Jihad?  Did it survive (mostly) intact or was it trashed?

In any event, I believe that as of the 3150s, both Robinson and El Dorado are under Combine occupation...

cheers,

Gabe

as of 3080 the sagittaire line was out of commission. at that point the black knight line was the next priority and who knows about the next seventy years. there are new variants appearing in 3084 (-10X) and 3134 (-14D) but i don't know if those are (admittedly heavy) refits or new production models.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28991
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #43 on: 12 August 2019, 10:18:48 »
Wanted to see if either of those were the devolved form from Jamie's Jugs . . . that -14D looks new build . . . but using a Small Cockpit on a pulse brawler assault?  Eh . . . RHS is interesting though . . .
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Orin J.

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2785
  • I am to feared! Aw, come on guys...
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #44 on: 15 August 2019, 18:38:04 »
The thing with boring designs is you can't really talk about them much.

the other thing about boring designs is the more f them you have, the more likely they get ignored. if you have 2 'mechs optimized for laserboating in a TRO already, the third one has to be VERY interesting not to be overlooked, which makes the next TRO likely to feel anemic in comparison, which pushes the need for even more samey optimized laserboats....

it's a tough thing to manage.
The Grey Death Legion? Dead? Gotcha, wake me when it's back.....
--------------------------
Every once in a while things make sense.


Don't let these moments alarm you. They pass.

Arkansas Warrior

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9210
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #45 on: 17 September 2019, 21:27:07 »
I could forgive the Warlord, bland as it is, if someone else built it. But we just got a beefy flashbulb from the Feddies in '67 with the Sagittaire, and it kind of feels like that was enough- a variant of the Sag with a Warlord-ish loadout would have been fine by me, but why the Feds would build two similar designs within a few years of each other- particularly with resources strained after so many years of constant conflict, Jihad included- is beyond me.

Boring Mech to use, boring in looks, awful miniature. Absolutely forgettable Mech.
Don't think in terms of factions, think in terms of companies.  In the Clans, or even the CC, you might have the State micromanaging who makes what so that it's all orderly, streamlined, and non-overlapping, but this is the FedSuns we're talking about here.  Robinson Standard BattleWorks was building Sagittaires on Robinson, and GM was like "Hey, that's not bad.  We want in on that action." and built something similar (but better in pretty much every way, unless you're fighting in a phone booth) on El Dorado.  it's not like RSB was just going to sell them a license and lose out on their own profits.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Caedis Animus

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2129
  • How can a bird be sultry? Very carefully.
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #46 on: 18 September 2019, 00:34:27 »
Pretty much what Arkansas Warrior said.

(I'm not super well-versed in the differences between a Cobra and Apache so I'm going off of what you see them doing). Both the Cobra and the Apache were, used by the United States in the same span of time, with roughly a 20 year age gap. Both were built as Attack Helicopters and both had roughly the same level of payload, and were not incredibly removed from one another in the speed department (The Apache being slightly faster).

Now, these are both Attack Helicopters, both used by the United States, in very similar capacities-one did come first (The Cobra). They both were produced by different companies; The Cobra was produced by Bell Helicopter and the Apache was produced by Hughes, McDonnell, and Boeing at different times.

The point I'm trying to make is, there's a historical precedent for two functionally similar units to be used by the same military force and country and time frame, produced by separate in-country companies. Hence why it makes a lot of sense for the Sagittaire and the Warlord; The two units are likely notably different under the hood, but to an outside observer such as us, we wonder why 'they' (Davion and the United States) make two different mechs (Or Helicopters) without the knowledge of which company makes what.

Kidd

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #47 on: 18 September 2019, 01:07:38 »
When we say that, we, of course, are looking at it in a metagame perspective.

Historically also armies tend to standardise one homogenous model of vehicle in at least platoon if not company size. Yet we know it's not quite Battletech to field whole companies of Warhammers etc outside of 2750.

Caedis Animus

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2129
  • How can a bird be sultry? Very carefully.
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #48 on: 18 September 2019, 03:09:19 »
When we say that, we, of course, are looking at it in a metagame perspective.

Historically also armies tend to standardise one homogenous model of vehicle in at least platoon if not company size. Yet we know it's not quite Battletech to field whole companies of Warhammers etc outside of 2750.
I'm looking at it from a manufacturing perspective, but yes, it makes yet more sense from Battletech's "Homogenous units? Hah, whatever" perspective.

Besides, I'd totally run both in the same Lance.

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #49 on: 18 September 2019, 08:01:51 »
I'm looking at it from a manufacturing perspective, but yes, it makes yet more sense from Battletech's "Homogenous units? Hah, whatever" perspective.

Besides, I'd totally run both in the same Lance.
It's an interesting comment on how the universe shapes my thinking but in other games or settings, I rarely think about building formations of significantly different units, but in cases like Battletech, that's the go-to.  The idea of a lance with three Enforcers, and a Dervish makes me squirm not because of the Dervish, but "where am I going to get THREE Enforcers?"

I think the focus on lance-level combat kinda forces that approach.  In XCOM:EU/EW or XCOM 2, where you start with only four troopers(sans mods), and four classes you tend toward diverse squads.  But bringing one sniper or heavy weapons unit is a quarter of your force. Contrast that with 1994's X-COM, where you could bring up to 14 troopers initially, and 26 in later stages.  In early to mid-game, I would have 2 rocket troopers, a heavy cannon trooper, an auto cannon trooper, and 10 riflemen.  The larger formations tend to become more uniform because once you bring 1 or 2 of the each specialist type, the rest force will be some kind of Trooper unit.

Think about a company of 12 mechs, but totally ignore the idea of lances. My brain starts leaning toward 2 dedicated fire-supports, 2 scout/spotters, 2 flanking skirmishers, and a core of 6 troopers.  Okay maybe 2 fast cav types, and 4 troopers. As opposed to the more classic configuration of scout lance, battle lance, and fire lance. In which case, you have more scouts than you really need, your fire support isn't ideal, and you don't have as many troopers as you'd like.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

gyedid

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2582
  • Always brighter on the other side of the mirror.
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #50 on: 18 September 2019, 09:13:55 »
The point I'm trying to make is, there's a historical precedent for two functionally similar units to be used by the same military force and country and time frame, produced by separate in-country companies. Hence why it makes a lot of sense for the Sagittaire and the Warlord; The two units are likely notably different under the hood, but to an outside observer such as us, we wonder why 'they' (Davion and the United States) make two different mechs (Or Helicopters) without the knowledge of which company makes what.

Those two also fill different roles IMO.  The Warlord is the vanilla medium-range trooper, while the Sag is a dedicated infighter that happens to have a long-range sting--and a mobility edge that the Warlord lacks.

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Arkansas Warrior

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9210
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #51 on: 18 September 2019, 10:13:04 »
Those two also fill different roles IMO.  The Warlord is the vanilla medium-range trooper, while the Sag is a dedicated infighter that happens to have a long-range sting--and a mobility edge that the Warlord lacks.

cheers,

Gabe
I think the idea was a new Sag model that fills the role the Warlord does, which wouldn't be hard.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9592
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #52 on: 18 September 2019, 11:57:39 »
I think the idea was a new Sag model that fills the role the Warlord does, which wouldn't be hard.
There are mechs that can fill the Sags roll. The game has been around for awhile, we are going to see some overlap.

The Warlord may have also been a rl attempt to give players another proxy for the Battlemaster much like the Hammerhands did for the Warhammer. Unfortunately, it didn't get the love the Hammer hands did for obvious reasons.

*the shame is the MWO Battlemaster makes a GREAT proxy for the Warlord*
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28991
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #53 on: 18 September 2019, 13:23:34 »
I am fine with the stats, I played with one last year for our tournament . . .

But I hate the looks . . . head/cockpit ugh, the mini has the PPCs as little offshoots on the arms over the hands- worse than the art.


Wish this was what we had the mini for
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

gyedid

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2582
  • Always brighter on the other side of the mirror.
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #54 on: 19 September 2019, 11:50:27 »
I think the idea was a new Sag model that fills the role the Warlord does, which wouldn't be hard.

The Warlord can at least keep up with the traditional heavy troopers like the Marauder and Warhammer.  The Sag has the ground speed of a Wall of Steel plodder--that's still going to be an issue even if the chassis is refit with a Warlord-like loadout.  And given the short range of most of the standard Sag's weapons, it's the Warlord that has to lay down supporting fire if the two are operating together.

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

gyedid

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2582
  • Always brighter on the other side of the mirror.
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #55 on: 19 September 2019, 12:07:48 »
You can see my take on a Warlord-like variant of the Sagittaire here:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=66976.0

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Orin J.

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2785
  • I am to feared! Aw, come on guys...
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #56 on: 19 September 2019, 12:25:09 »
I am fine with the stats, I played with one last year for our tournament . . .

But I hate the looks . . . head/cockpit ugh, the mini has the PPCs as little offshoots on the arms over the hands- worse than the art.


Wish this was what we had the mini for

i don't see how that thing is going to use it's hands to begin with with those weapons under the hands like that.....but what i wanted to ask colt, is could to expand on what you don't like about the cockpit exactly?
The Grey Death Legion? Dead? Gotcha, wake me when it's back.....
--------------------------
Every once in a while things make sense.


Don't let these moments alarm you. They pass.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28991
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #57 on: 19 September 2019, 12:49:19 »


Part of it is a breakdown between art and mini I think, the mini has the horrible PPC buds and the two weird windows of the cockpit.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9592
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #58 on: 19 September 2019, 12:59:06 »
I'm guessing the PPCs meant to be closer the the Thug and the double cockpit closer the the Zues X. I won't lie, the XTRO Warlord does look a little more streamlined thought it's two details that's easy (?) Enough to mod on the mini (though I suck at modding but I shouldn't be the standard)
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25024
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #59 on: 19 September 2019, 12:59:17 »
Part of it is a breakdown between art and mini I think, the mini has the horrible PPC buds and the two weird windows of the cockpit.
Totally agree. It's what put me off when i got the miniature, also it's too BIG.  Its scale it huge for normal one.  The original Thunderbolt IIC mini (not new variant that came out) suffers from exactly the same issue, it's too bloody big/outscale.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25640
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #60 on: 19 September 2019, 14:28:53 »
I ended up making my own ...

* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25820
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #61 on: 19 September 2019, 15:43:07 »
Totally agree. It's what put me off when i got the miniature, also it's too BIG.  Its scale it huge for normal one.  The original Thunderbolt IIC mini (not new variant that came out) suffers from exactly the same issue, it's too bloody big/outscale.

Yeah, the Warlord was one of the worst offenders in IWM's "Scale?  What's that?" phase.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40828
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #62 on: 19 September 2019, 16:43:05 »
The -2XC looks really weird, until you realize it's going all in on the Remote Sensor game. Between the Bloodhound, C3i, Command Console, and the free ton of Comm Gear all mechs get, the Warlord can monitor the feeds of twelve remote sensors at the same time, regardless of wether said Remotes came from itself or laid by someone else. That can be a huge advantage in double-blind games, or large campaigns where you want to keep an eye on huge tracts of land(actual land) even when you don't have any patrols in the area.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9592
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #63 on: 19 September 2019, 16:56:40 »
The 2XC is a defiantly a command and/or intel mech. Considering it's from XTRO: Phantoms, it makes sense the mech is loaded with ways to flush out hidden units.

.. and I know I will never pull the trigger on the idea but if I would to use a Zeus X4 as a base to bash a Warlord, what would you suggest for the arms?
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25640
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #64 on: 19 September 2019, 17:26:06 »
Arms from a MW:DA Panther are just about perfect.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9592
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #65 on: 19 September 2019, 18:41:14 »
Arms from a MW:DA Panther are just about perfect.
Wouldn't have thought of that, thanks.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #66 on: 20 September 2019, 09:19:57 »
Quick questions about the C3i on the -2XC, it's just there to allow for monitoring of the remote sensors, right? Between the C3i and Command Console, this thing can monitor 7 sensor feeds.  Also, don't mechs have a couple tons of "communications equipment" that are built into the cockpit?
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40828
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: 'Mech of the Week: Warlord
« Reply #67 on: 20 September 2019, 09:21:18 »
Quick questions about the C3i on the -2XC, it's just there to allow for monitoring of the remote sensors, right? Between the C3i and Command Console, this thing can monitor 7 sensor feeds.  Also, don't mechs have a couple tons of "communications equipment" that are built into the cockpit?

The -2XC looks really weird, until you realize it's going all in on the Remote Sensor game. Between the Bloodhound, C3i, Command Console, and the free ton of Comm Gear all mechs get, the Warlord can monitor the feeds of twelve remote sensors at the same time, regardless of wether said Remotes came from itself or laid by someone else. That can be a huge advantage in double-blind games, or large campaigns where you want to keep an eye on huge tracts of land(actual land) even when you don't have any patrols in the area.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll