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BattleTech Game Universe => The Inner Sphere => Topic started by: Sharpnel on 22 December 2012, 02:27:47

Title: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 22 December 2012, 02:27:47
(http://bg.battletech.com/forums/avatars/Battletech/IS_LyranCommonwealth.gif)




Just starting a new Steiner thread as the other should be locked very, very shortly.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 22 December 2012, 04:34:25
What? I don't see why.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 22 December 2012, 04:42:56
The old thread is at the 50-page limit and should be closed in the next few hours
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 22 December 2012, 05:01:23
My count is 42? Oo
Anyways... Precaution is welcome. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 22 December 2012, 05:11:30
My count is 42? Oo
Anyways... Precaution is welcome. ;)

That's my question too. I can see 42 pages only.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Wolflord on 22 December 2012, 05:20:16
Same here 42 page count showing
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Trace Coburn on 22 December 2012, 05:27:06
Same here 42 page count showing
  Yeah, the default forum settings have changed a little.

  The old thread has been unlocked after I reviewed the new forum settings.  The default page-length is now 30 posts/page, not the former 25, and as such that thread is currently only 42 pages long.  The 50-page limit does still apply.  I'm going to lock this new thread until the old one fills up to the 1500-post limit - then this new thread will reopen. ;)
Title: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2012, 12:33:10
Since the old one is ending i'll restart it here.

 Welcome to the new thread.
Title: Re: Kampfgrup Steiner II
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 23 December 2012, 12:57:54
They just locked a KG Steiner II thread as unneeded atm, a few threads down. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgrup Steiner II
Post by: ABADDON on 23 December 2012, 13:06:52
Also "Kampfgrup" as thread title is absolutely not acceptable, meine Herren!  Ordnung muss sein!  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgrup Steiner II
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2012, 13:09:50
Oh, no kidding? I saw that our other one was getting locked so i started a new one. Oh well. They can lock the old one i guess. We can start fresh on this one since that other one is locked.

 So... how 'bout them Steiners... crazy bunch.

 What were we discussing last?
Title: Re: Kampfgrup Steiner II
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2012, 13:11:45
Also "Kampfgrup" as thread title is absolutely not acceptable, meine Herren!  Ordnung muss sein!  ;)

 Lol i misspelled it again. Got it right this time Abaddon  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Stormlion1 on 23 December 2012, 15:44:23
Oh you crazy Steiners, you have an old thread not even close to being locked yet, a second 'II' thats locked until the old one hits 50, and you start a new 'II' for kicks and giggles.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2012, 15:46:13
 Actually, we were told that the old one was being locked because of posts not pages... that's why i started the new one.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 23 December 2012, 16:00:28
Oh you crazy Steiners, you have an old thread not even close to being locked yet, a second 'II' thats locked until the old one hits 50, and you start a new 'II' for kicks and giggles.

Thats just how Steiner rolls. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2012, 16:17:00
Thats just how Steiner rolls.

 We just love this house that much  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: ABADDON on 23 December 2012, 17:16:14
Thats just how Steiner rolls.

Always bring as many weapons threads to the battlefield forums as you possibly can.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 23 December 2012, 17:34:06
Only Steiner can afford two threads.  But just so's its not too OT...

For some time, I've been working on a circa 3067 Jaeger-based formation, with feedback from Charlie 6 on what makes a Lyran formation Lyran.  Quad BA, heavier than average mech corps, and lightning company. 

So far, my unit looks something like this:

Assault company(3/5)
Heavy company(4/6)
BA Company(Fenrir)

Heavy/Assault Company(4/6)
Fast Heavy Company(5/8)
BA Company(Rotts)

OmniMech Company(4/6 min)
BA Company(IS Std BA)[attached to OmniMech Company permanently]
Lightning Company(6/9/6 min)

HQ Unit
Command Lance
Security Lance
Scout Lance
BA Company(Rotts and GDL Scouts)
Engineering and Artillery fall under HQ as well. 

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2012, 17:44:40
That looks right. Are you going predominantly Lyran mechs or are you throwing in some old Davion favorites too?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 23 December 2012, 17:51:13
That looks right. Are you going predominantly Lyran mechs or are you throwing in some old Davion favorites too?

Primarily Lyran and FedCom era mechs.  There's a Mad Cat Mk II in there as well.  My Command Lance is primarily lights and mediums; CO's job is to command and be able to go see for himself, so as usual, he's in a PXH, fluffed for commo.  The XO is with the Security lance, staying close to the Mobile HQ and having authority and trust to handle anything the CO is not there to deal with. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2012, 18:07:29
Phx? That's a bit small for a command mech isn't it? I understand you want speed... how about a Griffin? Seems a bit more Lyran.

 What's the XO's ride?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Trace Coburn on 23 December 2012, 21:27:44
  [copper]
  [sigh]  Since everyone seemed to keep getting lost on the way to the Estates General, I've simplified the map a little.  The old 'Kampfgruppe' thread is now closed and locked; both 'Kampfgruppe II' threads have been merged to keep the board-clutter down.  Please enjoy your new and improved 'Operation EISENFAUST' thread.
  We apologise for any inconvenience.
 / [copper]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 23 December 2012, 22:02:26
Phx? That's a bit small for a command mech isn't it? I understand you want speed... how about a Griffin? Seems a bit more Lyran.

 What's the XO's ride?

Not just spped but also JJs and being fluffed for commo.  The PXH has two Lyran variants, after all.  In BT the conceit is the CO leads from the front, in a mech.  My CO's job is not pulling the trigger, its being able to go see for himself and coordinate.  Assault mechs are too slow for my purposes.  The security lance is heavy mechs but I haven't decided them yet.

The MHQ is for staff officers.   Since the CO and XO are off in their mechs, its the job of the staff, the true professional officer class of the LCAF/LAAF, to handle the details and turn orders into reality.  Its the only way that BT's setting makes any sense to me.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2012, 22:58:07
Can we at least get the operation eisenfaust taken off?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2012, 23:00:56
Not just spped but also JJs and being fluffed for commo.  The PXH has two Lyran variants, after all.  In BT the conceit is the CO leads from the front, in a mech.  My CO's job is not pulling the trigger, its being able to go see for himself and coordinate.  Assault mechs are too slow for my purposes.  The security lance is heavy mechs but I haven't decided them yet.

The MHQ is for staff officers.   Since the CO and XO are off in their mechs, its the job of the staff, the true professional officer class of the LCAF/LAAF, to handle the details and turn orders into reality.  Its the only way that BT's setting makes any sense to me.

 I see. It's an interestjng concept.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 23 December 2012, 23:11:14
Wow...only Steiner could get this confused. Too many parties to throw. First you have the pre-thread closing ball. Then the mistaken thread closing ball, then the ball to be the first to have a ball after the thread closing ball, which missed the OTHER ball to have a ball first after thread closing ball....now we have the Celebrate everyone figuring out which ball is the right ball ball...

This must be the Steiner Theme Song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g23GiivXC78
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2012, 23:18:15
I can't stand ac/dc.

 I wasn't racing to be the first to restart the thread. It was closing, i was simply restarting it. I didn't notice the other one.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 24 December 2012, 00:31:36
I can't stand ac/dc.

 I wasn't racing to be the first to restart the thread. It was closing, i was simply restarting it. I didn't notice the other one.

Sorry...saw the whole thread confusion thing, and it immediately made me think of HOGARTH!!! and his discussion of the
balls he had lined up for one of the planets he had liberated during Operation: SCOUR.  Which naturally lead me to think
of AC/DC Big Balls.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: snakespinner on 24 December 2012, 02:06:40
The social generals. If it's not a ball everything gets so confused.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 24 December 2012, 04:08:55
None of that matters! Steiner uber alles! Assault Mechs mitt uns!

Best beer: check!
Best assortment of Mechs: check!
Best looking women: check!
Best whiskey: check!
Special Ops Group which seems to specialize in sabotaging enemy Jump Ships: check!

Yup, it's still the Lyrans for me!

Lost worlds? Battles? Border redrawn? Internal strife? Been there, done that. The Lyrans will not only survive, but will recover and prosper. Its what we do.  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 24 December 2012, 05:10:59
Top...too bad Steiner is German, not Swedish..otherwise, thise would be so appropriate for them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnex2xQz6C4
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 24 December 2012, 05:23:55
Top...too bad Steiner is German, not Swedish..otherwise, thise would be so appropriate for them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnex2xQz6C4

Nonsense! Of course its appropriate! We have Swedes, as well as German, Scots, and God only knows how many others. German is merely the official language. We like anyone with decent alcohol or a militant trading attitude, or both!

And those are nice screenshots from Empire: Total War.  :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 24 December 2012, 05:41:16
Top...too bad Steiner is German, not Swedish..otherwise, thise would be so appropriate for them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnex2xQz6C4

Eherm, "Gott mit uns" ("God is with us" edit: hm, actually it translates rather as "God SHALL be with us") was the GERMAN Battle cry of GERMAN mercenaries fighting for the swedish king Gustavus Adolfus (those rotten traitors!) during the 30 year's war, so in a way at least in some way it's still fitting (at least language-wise). :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 24 December 2012, 06:28:50
Eherm, "Gott mit uns" ("God is with us" edit: hm, actually it translates rather as "God SHALL be with us") was the GERMAN Battle cry of GERMAN mercenaries fighting for the swedish king Gustavus Adolfus (those rotten traitors!) during the 30 year's war, so in a way at least in some way it's still fitting (at least language-wise). :P
Sorry, but at that time Germany had not been created yet, so they were from Bayern, Sachsen, Thüringen and what other duchy or principality you name. So they were hardly traitors, since you can't betray state which does not exist.  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 24 December 2012, 06:36:48
German as a people, not German as by being a citizen of a German state (even though they even at that time betrayed the Empire). ;) They all shared the same origin as Germanic tribes after all.
Remember that even during the existence of the Holy Roman Empire there was not only the Emperor (Kaiser), but also a German King (both titles usually applied to the same person).

The sub-nationalities derived from the power grab of the German lords due to the lack of interest shown by Friedrich II (who preferred doing arts and reorganizing the Sicilian state while clashing with the pope several times and going to the holy land) and the sudden and unexpected death of his father, Heinrich VI, who tried to establish a hereditary monarchy in contrast to a monarchy where the new monarch had to be elected by the lords.

But let's get back to topic. Don't want to get another warning for rules violation of rule #4. ;)


->
If you had the option to revive up to three production lines lost in the Jihad (i.e. not included in Objectives LA), which would those be?

Personally, I would only require a single line: The one for the Hauptmann. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 24 December 2012, 07:30:50
Oh, and I know for you Americans it's still a while, but here in Germany it's already Christmas.
So merry Christmas to all fellow Lyrans. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 24 December 2012, 08:46:56
But let's get back to topic. Don't want to get another warning for rules violation of rule #4. ;)
Okay, but generally it's safe up to the 20th century.

->
If you had the option to revive up to three production lines lost in the Jihad (i.e. not included in Objectives LA), which would those be?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 24 December 2012, 08:54:27
Jup, Dragon Fire and Falconer seem like good choices to me as well. But really? No Hauptmann? IMO one of the three most signature and best Mechs we produce(d).
I would trade all the remaining Sunder, Black Hawk-Ku and Avatar lines in for the Hauptmann line. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 December 2012, 09:03:56
God Jul alle sammen!

 Pretty sure they lump Swedes in with us Norsk or maybe it's the other way around...

 Yup, still the best booze,most atractive men and women, best selection of mechs... Same old LC that we love.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 December 2012, 09:05:35
 Is there a list of which lines we lost?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 24 December 2012, 09:06:57
Jup, Dragon Fire and Falconer seem like good choices to me as well. But really? No Hauptmann? IMO one of the three most signature and best Mechs we produce(d).
I would trade all the remaining Sunder, Black Hawk-Ku and Avatar lines in for the Hauptmann line. ;)

I definately agree here that the Hauptman is something that needs to be saved. In fact, I would expect, following the
draw down of arms in the Republic Era, the Lyran wealth, and the already demonstrated effort with the Morgenstern,
I would expect that the Lyrans would be looking at making a series of OmniMechs that can replace multiple 'mechs
at once.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 December 2012, 09:11:06
 We should invest in making all the IS omnis... even the Perseus. Seriously, most of the IS omnis are pretty good and it just makes sense to do it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 24 December 2012, 09:18:23
We should invest in making all the IS omnis... even the Perseus. Seriously, most of the IS omnis are pretty good and it just makes sense to do it.

The Men Shen and Perseus fall into the "Good 'mech, bad configurations" problem. The Strider should not be touched.
I like the Owens, but think it would be far better with DHS...which, hey the Steiners could easily upgrade it. Actually..
the Steiners should take the first generation Omnis and upgrade the tech...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 24 December 2012, 09:26:18
... But really? No Hauptmann? IMO one of the three most signature and best Mechs we produce(d).
I would trade all the remaining Sunder, Black Hawk-Ku and Avatar lines in for the Hauptmann line. ;)

Since you mentioned it first, I have thought it's unnecessary to repeat it. And Lyrans have many Assaults left, such as Atlas, Fafnir, Thunder Hawk, Devastator or Banshee etc.

But those Heavies - what's still in production in the desired weight class of 75 tons? Thanatos is so-so,  Defiance is just strange Warhammer with armament of MAD-9S, but less heat capacity. So only MAD-9S Marauder as a general trooper 75-tonner (and MAD-9W2?).

Return to DGR-4F would be good. Or they could take DGR-6FC (as it was the last produced model) and start from there.
Falconer - well, explanation why save it is pretty obvious  :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 24 December 2012, 09:52:01
Well, we still have the ARC-7S Archer and... uhm... the new Grasshopper, the new Warhammer (10CT), the new Barghest with the iHGR, 6T Axman, the modernized Crossbow... and the Avatar OmniMech.
No 75 tonners, but at least 60, 65 or 70s.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 24 December 2012, 10:04:37
Would "Stalker-8S mitt uns" be an appropriate Lyran battle cry? ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 24 December 2012, 10:07:08
Invader and Monolith Class JumpShips
Falconer

If you are talking strictly BattleMechs:  Falconer, Hauptmann and Dragon Fire.  Although an argument can be made that the  Lynx should replace the Dragon Fire because the LAAF/LCAF is once again getting top heavy and can always use a solid light mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 December 2012, 11:00:52
We still have access to a lot of nice fast lights and mediums. I'll 2nd( or 3rd) the production of the falconer, cestus and buy the rights to make the penetrater.

 Did we some how loose the line to produce the flashman?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 24 December 2012, 11:10:40
Did we some how loose the line to produce the flashman?

It was likely repurposed by the Blakists during their occupation of Hesperus II.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 December 2012, 11:14:15
It was likely repurposed by the Blakists during their occupation of Hesperus II.

 They were using our lines. They had their own version of the flashman... they could have been making them there. Then again, that line could have been damaged or something. Most unfortunate... i think i'll keep them being produced there... in my universe.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 December 2012, 11:39:53
The Men Shen and Perseus fall into the "Good 'mech, bad configurations" problem. The Strider should not be touched.
I like the Owens, but think it would be far better with DHS...which, hey the Steiners could easily upgrade it. Actually..
the Steiners should take the first generation Omnis and upgrade the tech...

 I really like the fire starter omni also.  I think we could really do something nice with the men-shen and the blackjack omni's.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 24 December 2012, 11:42:16
I really like the fire starter omni also.  I think we could really do something nice with the men-shen and the blackjack omni's.

As I said: Good 'Mechs, bad configurations. Seriosly, the Menshen Prime: change the Medium Pulse out for ER Mediums, give it a second ton of LRM Ammo, Active Probe, ECM, and TAG....
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 December 2012, 11:47:44
As I said: Good 'Mechs, bad configurations. Seriosly, the Menshen Prime: change the Medium Pulse out for ER Mediums, give it a second ton of LRM Ammo, Active Probe, ECM, and TAG....

 Perfect electronics package mech. Something we can always use. I agree with the changes but I'd like to see a mml in there.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 24 December 2012, 12:35:15
Only three designs?  Black Hawk KU, Hauptmann, and Spector 7F?(whichever one is the base 7/11/7 LL/2ML model) for light mech duty. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Lysenko on 24 December 2012, 12:54:49

I like the Owens, but think it would be far better with DHS...which, hey the Steiners could easily upgrade it.

The one problem I have with the Owens is actually a FWL problem. It's mentioned that the 1st Marik Militia (the Avenging angels, ooh-rah!) has a lance of Owens for Recon. 4 'Mechs with C3S....how do they coordinate again?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 December 2012, 13:00:07
Something with 2 masters behind it?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Lysenko on 24 December 2012, 13:00:19
On a side issue, does anyone else think this song has been updated and used by teh LCAF in the BT Universe ("Panzerlied")?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqlE9eNWYj4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqlE9eNWYj4)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Lysenko on 24 December 2012, 13:02:12
Col., tha is teh obvious answer but they make such a big deal in the FM about the 1MM fielding  a lance of C3-equipped Omnis. There's no C3M Pereseus which would be appropriate with the FWL's combined arms thing).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 December 2012, 13:06:33
There are tanks with masters too.... i don't know what you folks have available tho.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 24 December 2012, 13:29:51
They were using our lines. They had their own version of the flashman... they could have been making them there. Then again, that line could have been damaged or something. Most unfortunate... i think i'll keep them being produced there... in my universe.

The Robes did sabotage and/or booby trap a lot of production lines when they were pulling out.  The Flashman probably fell victim to that.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 24 December 2012, 13:32:09
On a side issue, does anyone else think this song has been updated and used by teh LCAF in the BT Universe ("Panzerlied")?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqlE9eNWYj4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqlE9eNWYj4)

No reason is wouldn't be. There are a large number of Armored Regiments in the LCAF!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Devens on 25 December 2012, 10:54:43
German as a people, not German as by being a citizen of a German state (even though they even at that time betrayed the Empire). ;) They all shared the same origin as Germanic tribes after all.
Remember that even during the existence of the Holy Roman Empire there was not only the Emperor (Kaiser), but also a German King (both titles usually applied to the same person).


Other nations that have their origans as germanic tribes are Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Russia(Via Scandanavian Germanic Tribes).  Viking was an occupation not a peope, the society was a Germanic one. 

Like all successor states, the LC is a combination of several cultures.  In the case of the LC, various germanic cultures are the basis for its own culture.  Sweedish is one of the heavier influences on lyran culture as it was Tamars most dominent ethnicities.   

 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 25 December 2012, 12:00:40
Other nations that have their origans as germanic tribes are Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Russia(Via Scandanavian Germanic Tribes).  Viking was an occupation not a peope, the society was a Germanic one.   

True, but even if one was to take that as premise you could still make the point for the land being called "Deutschland" or "Deutsches Land" (meaning "Germany"/"German land") as a whole if one were to talk about the several splinter realms within the central part pf the Holy Roman Empire (of German nation). As I said, the Kaiser/Emperor was at the same time the "Roman-German King", which referred to all the splinter realms as one country/people.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 December 2012, 12:20:48
There is also a heavy Irish influence... Donagal
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 25 December 2012, 16:04:59
And Scottish (Isle of Skye!)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 December 2012, 18:47:58
And Scottish (Isle of Skye!)

 The folks from Isle of Skye are Danes, and Scotts  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 25 December 2012, 18:54:23
Even better!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 25 December 2012, 19:06:28
So Irish and Scots, Germans and Northerners. Good bunch, I say.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 December 2012, 21:20:49
So Irish and Scots, Germans and Northerners. Good bunch, I say.

 It's no wonder we are the best lol.All we CAN do is loose. Once you're the best there's only one way to go...down
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 25 December 2012, 21:45:36
Make sure we pick up some Finns along the way.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 26 December 2012, 01:26:24
Make sure we pick up some Finns along the way.
Well, someone's got to drive the tanks.  Who better than Colonel Raikkonen?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 26 December 2012, 14:09:40
Ok, so now I'm thinking of making a 3rd Lyran army. This time it'll be a jager unit. I haven't decided which one yet but I'm really excited( and a bit intimidated) with painting checkerboard.

 My 6th Donegal is my wall of steel, my 6th lyran guard is my fast unit. Just trying to figure out what i want to do with the new one... any suggestions?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 26 December 2012, 14:19:32
Heavy cav?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Wolflord on 26 December 2012, 14:34:31
Jaegers ....... Hhmmmm ........hunters - head hunters - sharpshooters - plenty of headcappers
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 26 December 2012, 14:40:58
Well, I showed my proposed Lyran Jaeger unit on the first page.  I like them as a fast, relatively heavy unit, then use BA and vehicles to fill the other needs.  I chose the Skye Jaegers because of obvious reasons, but they've also seen a lot of combat since their creation. 

I doubt I'll do the checks, because I'm not that good a painter.  Camo works just fine.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 26 December 2012, 15:20:46
Ok, so now I'm thinking of making a 3rd Lyran army. This time it'll be a jager unit. I haven't decided which one yet but I'm really excited( and a bit intimidated) with painting checkerboard.

 My 6th Donegal is my wall of steel, my 6th lyran guard is my fast unit. Just trying to figure out what i want to do with the new one... any suggestions?

Practicality first. (you know me ;))

If you are gonna do a Jäger regiment, you should choose a regiment that has survived the chaos of the Jihad. Unless you have other intentions, that is. Well, not a single regiment survived, but some have been reconstitued:

So Coventry Jägers are out since they existed only for few years, and Alarion Jägers died at the beginning of the Jihad. Donegal and Bolan Jägers have been restored just near the end of the Jihad and those "new" Jägers haven't seen much of anti-WoB fighting. The same is true for Buena Jägers.

Personally I would go with the Skye Jägers. Although they were crushed in 3068, their recreation was relatively swift in 3074 or sooner. Maybe not even "recreation", but "recovery" may be better word for it because it may be possible that those were still the same soldiers that retreated from the League space. At least part of them.
During the latter half of the Jihad they fought on Hesperus II and on Galatea.

And what's more important - they have remained loyal to the Lyran Alliance and turned down Devlin Stone's offer.

So, do you have enough of blue paint?

(http://i.imgur.com/F0ehp.png)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 26 December 2012, 15:23:01
Ugh, a Jäger unit... do you have a lot of old mechs that you want to find some use for?
The Jägers are not exactly high on the priority list when it comes to the distribution of shiny new toys. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 26 December 2012, 15:25:57
Heavy cav?

 Not a bad idea, maybe a heavy cav. with omni's and BA.

 Yea, youre post gave me the idea actually.i like the idea of heavy cav with head cappers. Probably some blackhawk-ku' for BA transport then use some non omni cav units. Nothing too heavy tho. It'll be hard not to throw in a few Zeus and Banshee tho.


 
Well, I showed my proposed Lyran Jaeger unit on the first page.  I like them as a fast, relatively heavy unit, then use BA and vehicles to fill the other needs.  I chose the Skye Jaegers because of obvious reasons, but they've also seen a lot of combat since their creation. 

I doubt I'll do the checks, because I'm not that good a painter.  Camo works just fine.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 26 December 2012, 15:35:01
@Martian Yes, skye does sound good. I do happen to have a bunch of blue paint...and i know where to get more  O0 .

 @Abaddon yea, i actually have a bunch of old unseens that are stripped and waiting for me to do something with them. I have about a company worth of old leads, some SLera stuff and other non unseen 3025 stuff to throw into it. Plus some more advanced stuff. I have a bunch of tanks needing paint plus some GDL suits, fenrirs,rotts and is standards lying around.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 26 December 2012, 15:46:34
Not a bad idea, maybe a heavy cav. with omni's and BA.

 Yea, youre post gave me the idea actually.i like the idea of heavy cav with head cappers. Probably some blackhawk-ku' for BA transport then use some non omni cav units. Nothing too heavy tho. It'll be hard not to throw in a few Zeus and Banshee tho.

Zeus and Banshee work just fine as supporting units.  I wouldn't stick a bunch of 3/5s in, but the 4/6 Banshees work fine, and some 3/5s for assault/defence don't hurt.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 26 December 2012, 15:55:54
Zeus and Banshee work just fine as supporting units.  I wouldn't stick a bunch of 3/5s in, but the 4/6 Banshees work fine, and some 3/5s for assault/defence don't hurt.

 I'm just trying to keep away from the same old, same old.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 26 December 2012, 16:03:03
Just avoid 3/5ers and throw in as many Jumpers as possible. I'd call such unit pretty unconventional for a Steiner force.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 26 December 2012, 16:21:59
Just avoid 3/5ers and throw in as many Jumpers as possible. I'd call such unit pretty unconventional for a Steiner force.

 I already have that unit already in my 6th LG. Slowest is 4/6 and is a battlemaster.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 26 December 2012, 16:49:00
I'm just trying to keep away from the same old, same old.

The Jaegers make an interesting chance to do something different.  Its why I stick the quad BA in with the mech companies to form a battalion.  The equipment makes it even more fun.  I stick very loosely to the MUL, but don't care about the RATs at all.  The combination of older mechs with new stuff like the Barghest and Hauptmann(as mentioned in the fluff) makes it fun.  Plus, the older, unupgraded lights and mediums like the Commando and Griffin and Wolfhound are still useful on the Jihad battlefield, if primitives are being put back into emergency production. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 26 December 2012, 17:11:48
Ugh, a Jäger unit... do you have a lot of old mechs that you want to find some use for?
The Jägers are not exactly high on the priority list when it comes to the distribution of shiny new toys. ;)
That's not entirely correct. In 3060s Jägers used to be equipped with some good 'Mechs. Of course, Jägers were no Royal Guards, but no Lyran Regulars either. Just something average.

And during the Jihad? Every single Lyran unit was glad if they got "any" replacement 'Mechs, be it some cutting edge unit, an Unseen that used to belong to some backwater militia or even a RetroMech.

1st Skye Jägers (3060s)
Command Lance:
HA1-OB Hauptmann
BNC-3S Banshee
BGS-3T Barghest
TNS-4T Thanatos

Fire-support Lance:
LGB-7Q Longbow
STK-3H Stalker
ARC-2S Archer
HBK-4G Hunchback

Flanker lance:
LNX-8Q Lynx
DRT-4S Dart
FS9-S1 Firestarter
WLF-1 Wolfhound

- some of those 'Mechs are fluffed as being assigned to Skye Jägers; we have no extra details about their Jihad equipment, only that the Skye Jägers salvaged some examples of GLH-3D Galahad on Hesperus II. It's the WoB Militia model with twin Light Gauss Rifles fed from four ammo bins and ECM suite. Pretty good 'Mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 26 December 2012, 17:15:01
I thought we were talking post-Jihad, because your previous posting seemed to indicate that we were.
I could be wrong, but I think it was mentioned in FM 3085 that the Jägers were not exactly favoured when it came down to equipment distribution.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 26 December 2012, 17:24:36
I thought we were talking post-Jihad, because your previous posting seemed to indicate that we were.
I could be wrong, but I think it was mentioned in FM 3085 that the Jägers were not exactly favoured when it came down to equipment distribution.

It's a bit confusing since Col.Hengist hasn't told us if he wishes to create "old" Skye Jägers from 3060s, or "new" Skye Jägers from 3074+.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 26 December 2012, 17:37:19
Probably Jaegers from right before the Jihad. So a good smattering of old and new.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 26 December 2012, 17:50:09
Probably Jaegers from right before the Jihad. So a good smattering of old and new.

Then keep in mind that their upgrade status (in 3067) is 25% of Star League technology. So one of four 'Mechs is equipped with at least one item better than Introductory tech; in other words one of four 'Mech may have ER Small laser or Streak SRM-2. So the company I described above may be actually too advanced.

Their Qartermaster rating is "C" which means average equipment.

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 26 December 2012, 19:25:46
...Their Qartermaster rating is "C" which means average equipment.

Still ... average of what timeline? And what does average mean anyway?

And sorry i think it is absurd, that line regiments - even if they are shunned and despised at a later point of time - still run mechs older then their grandfathers. There is something between 15 and 30 years since Star League tech has been rediscovered and they are still piloting something like e.g. a ZEU-6S without modernisation?
I think the real old tech should be part of militias, not line regiments.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nightsky on 26 December 2012, 19:35:19
I've heard that people take FM:U upgrade ratings for Steiner with a pinch of salt.

Either way - even if you're sticking close to canon, when you're collecting a small force you don't need to build it as a microcosm of its parent unit. Upgrades, Clantech, new mechs and omnimechs aren't always distributed evenly across the whole regiment, some companies may be more blessed than others. Basically it lets you have a pretty free hand with the ratings as a very loose guideline. That can be fishy for Clantech ("Hey guys, how do you like my Donegal Guards lance! 3 Turkinas and a Dragonfly!") but it holds up for the rest.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 26 December 2012, 21:40:32
And sorry i think it is absurd, that line regiments - even if they are shunned and despised at a later point of time - still run mechs older then their grandfathers. There is something between 15 and 30 years since Star League tech has been rediscovered and they are still piloting something like e.g. a ZEU-6S without modernisation?
I think the real old tech should be part of militias, not line regiments.

Beggars can't be choosers.  Something (no matter how lowtech) is better than nothing.  With supply lines in chaos and a dozen or so other regiments with a higher priority than yours, you take what you can get be it a 100+ year old Mech that was mothballed or a RetroTech Mech.  As things settle down and the replacement parts/Mechs start reaching your unit, you start upgrading/replacing the old equipment.

During the FedCom Civil War, commanders from both sides pulled mothballed equipment into service because they knew that the chance for getting replacement equipment was low.  During the Jihad (and post-Jihad years), the situation was far worse as the supply lines were still disrupted and the Blakists damaged/seized/destroyed the several of the largest military production facilities in the Lyran Alliance nee Commonwealth including Alarion, Coventry, Donegal, Hesperus II and Tharkad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 27 December 2012, 07:54:39
There are still some people that own their own mechs. The upgrade status on those are questionable too. Maybe when Dad was piloting it he got a nice Marik upgrade package for the family Archer, or maybe he didn't trust in those new fangled electronics because this 2R. Was good enough for his great great grand pappy and it'll be good enough for him!

  I like mixed tech levels in units. Gives it a nice flavor.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 27 December 2012, 15:23:21
I'll post my Jaegers up tonight.  They've been largely complete, TO&E wise, for some time, just haven't finished the Lightning Company.  There's enough old tech mechs to go either way, that I don't worry about the strictly new tech designs.

I don't even use pure lances much, let alone companies, this time around, although some things are found in larger numbers(Griffin, Commando, Zeus, Black Hawk KU).  I do pair them up though, except for a handful of designs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 27 December 2012, 15:24:33
Sounds good. Can't wait to see it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nerroth on 27 December 2012, 23:10:23
Does the historical data in Handbook: House Steiner include much information on the run-up to the exodus which led to the foundation of the Hanseatic League?

(From what I gather, the first Hansa colonists left the Commonwealth well after Kerensky's Exodus; with the heavy attrition rate affecting JumpShips and DropShips in the early Succession Wars era, and the stresses being placed on the Lyran economy at the time, one wonders what kind of effort was needed to organise an expedition large enough to found what would become the largest non-Clan state in the Deep Periphery.)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 28 December 2012, 17:33:48
Seeking out the Hansa in that book has never been a priority of mine. If you have it on pdf it's probably a quick search. I forgot my notebook or i could help you.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nerroth on 28 December 2012, 20:49:51
I don't have a copy, but the Sarna page for the Hansa (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hanseatic_League) refers to a Military Disaster Order pushed through by Archon Elizabeth Steiner, which supposedly acted as the direct catalyst for the exodus to what would become the Hanseatic League.

Granted, the scale of the departure wasn't exactly on the scale of the Exodus, but I figured that at least someone might have been keeping tabs on just how much money, materiel and manpower was being spent in carrying out the Hansa expedition.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 03 January 2013, 13:21:33
Only took a week to finally get around to finalizing some choices.   #P

Anyway, MY Skye Jaegers (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,25786.0.html).  Paint scheme wise, I think I might very well end up doing camo, and then using blue and white checker pattern decals around a leg or something.  I'm not painting those checks, and it seems like an acceptable compromise for me.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 03 January 2013, 14:01:52
Only took a week to finally get around to finalizing some choices.   #P

Anyway, MY Skye Jaegers (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,25786.0.html).  Paint scheme wise, I think I might very well end up doing camo, and then using blue and white checker pattern decals around a leg or something.  I'm not painting those checks, and it seems like an acceptable compromise for me.

Sure, you may have much fun with you unit, but they do not look like I'd imagine 1st Skye Jägers in 3067. But if it works for your game, then go for it.

Naturally, since you do not adhere to canon, you can use any 'Mech or vehicle you wish.

But I am not sure about those Hunchbacks. You have put them into company consisting of 'Mechs moving 6/9/(6) or faster. Typical Hunchback moves 4/6. And even if you use 4/6/4 variant, they are kinda slow. How do you imagine they will keep pace with the rest of the company?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 03 January 2013, 14:09:33
Sure, you may have much fun with you unit, but they do not look like I'd imagine 1st Skye Jägers in 3067. But if it works for your game, then go for it.

Naturally, since you do not adhere to canon, you can use any 'Mech or vehicle you wish.

I did mention it was the projected rebuild.  Its taking what exists in 67, in FM: U, and going from there, assuming the Jjihad didn't kick off.  The Templar is probably the biggest departure, and IIRC the Owens is also not on the MUL for the Elsies.  Most everything else is available to the Lyrans.  The armour unit has a good number of Skye-produced, mostly inexpensive units.  The 3067 date is primarily a limiter for the mech and tanks I am most familiar with, as I pretty much skipped the Jihad. 

Quote
But I am not sure about those Hunchbacks. You have put them into company consisting of 'Mechs moving 6/9/(6) or faster. Typical Hunchback moves 4/6. And even if you use 4/6/4 variant, they are kinda slow. How do you imagine they will keep pace with the rest of the company?

Must introduce you to the 6/9 HBK-6S, I think is the model.  Mostly because I wanted my Lightning company to have the Blitzkriegs, and use something else for the medium company. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 03 January 2013, 14:28:39
I did mention it was the projected rebuild.  Its taking what exists in 67, in FM: U, and going from there, assuming the Jjihad didn't kick off. 
So alternative universe then? You should have said that. Okay.

Must introduce you to the 6/9 HBK-6S, I think is the model.  Mostly because I wanted my Lightning company to have the Blitzkriegs, and use something else for the medium company.
Yeah, this Hunchback from MW4.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 03 January 2013, 14:49:04
So alternative universe then? You should have said that. Okay.

I don't know that its intended as an AU so much as just a plan to rebuild them, and what they should come out looking like at the end.  Its a blueprint, rather than BT's nebulous hodge podge of salvage and whatever gets shipped to a planet.  Rather than my pure lances/companies like I tend to do, I made an effort to include other designs this time, but still like the buddy system for them. 

It also stems from talks about what makes a Lyran unit different than other factions, organisationally.  What do they think they do?  What do they do well?  What do they make?  What about the LCAF/LAAF is interesting and different, and not just aping the AFFS?  LCTs need not apply.  I needed Skye forces, so it ends up as them, because I find the Jaeger concept interesting. 

Quote
Yeah, this Hunchback from MW4.

I don't know that I ever used the HBK in MW4.  I usually stuck with Nova/Blackhawk for mediums, not as fast, but fun jumping, and could fit a Clan LB-20.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 03 January 2013, 15:54:42
Rather than my pure lances/companies like I tend to do, I made an effort to include other designs this time, but still like the buddy system for them. 
And that's good.

It also stems from talks about what makes a Lyran unit different than other factions, organisationally.  What do they think they do?  What do they do well?  What do they make?  What about the LCAF/LAAF is interesting and different, and not just aping the AFFS?  LCTs need not apply.  I needed Skye forces, so it ends up as them, because I find the Jaeger concept interesting. 
I have never regarded Lyrans too high. Just a Davion sidekick, if you ask me. Dim-witted, but with a fat wallet.

When it comes to Alliance Jägers, there are two sides to consider:
First: Loyalty. I have felt that while it was important for Katherine to get competent soldiers there, loyalty to the Alliance was expected to be balanced with loyalty to Katherine. Something similar as when Tommy Marik raised the Knights and they swore the oath of loyalty to him personally.
Second: Combined Arms and Mobility. From the roster I would deleted all those Assault 'Mechs except Hauptmann for the CO (and only because it was explicitly fluffed as sent to Jägers). Nothing slower than 4/6 and around 80 tons at most (so perhaps BattleMaster, Zeus, one or two faster Salamander variants and that would be all). Other than that, you did a good job.

I don't know that I ever used the HBK in MW4.  I usually stuck with Nova/Blackhawk for mediums, not as fast, but fun jumping, and could fit a Clan LB-20.
That because it was only added in the Inner Sphere Mech Pack for first two games, but only for Instant Action play, not for campaign. Only later it was included in MW4: Mercs, and I believe again for Instant Action only.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 03 January 2013, 16:16:09
Well, people cried when I mentioned my 40 tank Myrmidon battalion I have minis for. O:-)  The Gunslinger company also gets funny looks.

On loyalty: newer mechs are also the way to buy off those on the fence.  While the Skye Jaegers going over to Free Skye surprised exactly no one, hopefully they were not a hotbed of Free Skye sentiment like the Rangers and militia. 
On the assaults: I agree with you.  But the Jaegers are also where I'm sticking a lot of odds and ends mechs I have acquired over the years.  And since they're the only Steiner unit I'm doing up, I want the wall fo steel as an option.  Otherwise I agree with you about the assault company being excessive for whats intended to be a generalist PR unit.  I have a fw BLRs lying around that I could probably swap in though. 
CO's lance: I differ from the BT norm on that.  I want high mobility, jumpy mechs for my COs to go see and then get back.  Yes, the Falconer does that too, but its better used actually fighting.  The fluff about being good for command also helps the PXH's case.  The XO is a traditionalist, and I have a homeless Atlas, so...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Marwynn on 06 January 2013, 10:32:25
Question, did Archon Katrina Steiner travel with the 1st Royal Guards to Skye in 3028?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 10 January 2013, 11:53:34
Looks like we're getting a little love today...

 http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6466
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 10 January 2013, 15:05:24
And a unit in the next XTRO!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 10 January 2013, 15:24:25
Really? Do tell?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 10 January 2013, 17:41:35
He can't tell. BTW Kit... what's that ugly mech you're using for an avatar?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 10 January 2013, 17:52:01
Pizza eating ninjas throwing Liberator. At least, that's what I gathered from the other thread.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 10 January 2013, 17:54:17
Other thread?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 10 January 2013, 18:21:05
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,26037.msg588183/boardseen.html#new
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Death by Zeus on 10 January 2013, 21:29:40
Kit went "It's Alive!!" and split it off into it's own thread.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 10 January 2013, 21:33:13
Other thread?
 
Fah!

Ain't no thread like the Kampfgruppe thread!  O0   8)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 11 January 2013, 16:05:35
Agreed Top!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 January 2013, 16:26:46
Well, i like the Spirit thread and the MH thread also but I'm a true blue Steiner at heart.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 11 January 2013, 16:33:17
Big money, heavy mechs and guns, sexy blonds (women and beer), mustache and monocle, as well as fancy German and THOMAS HOGARTH!!!1 = most awesome accumulation of awesome things ever.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 January 2013, 16:34:57
Big money, heavy mechs and guns, sexy blonds (women and beer), mustache and monocle, as well as fancy German and THOMAS HOGARTH!!!1 = most awesome accumulation of awesome things ever.

 There is no reason to disagree with this
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 11 January 2013, 18:01:44
Flawlessly logical.  8)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 07 March 2013, 19:15:06
Well now I should join this party since I am committed to House Steiner. 8) Well greatings my brothers and sisters in arms!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 07 March 2013, 20:03:32
And another fine fellow achieves enlightenment. Have a beer!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 07 March 2013, 20:10:51
And another fine fellow achieves enlightenment. Have a beer!
I will left a mug of Weissbrier to that  [cheers]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 07 March 2013, 21:56:06


 Weissbrier  [cheers]

Close enough ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 07 March 2013, 22:15:33
Close enough ;)
Weissbiers sorry typo  O:-)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nerroth on 07 March 2013, 22:23:31
You've certainly picked an interesting time to go for the Lyran Commonwealth; once the 3145 books start rolling in, you'll have quite a lot to try and deal with.

(Not that you'd get a lot of sympathy for your predicament from your rimward neighbours, mind you.)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 07 March 2013, 22:51:54
You've certainly picked an interesting time to go for the Lyran Commonwealth; once the 3145 books start rolling in, you'll have quite a lot to try and deal with.

(Not that you'd get a lot of sympathy for your predicament from your rimward neighbours, mind you.)
Not really I have no intentions of going past 3049  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nerroth on 07 March 2013, 23:41:20
In that case, have you thought of trying out the versions of the LCAF from earlier time periods, such as the Age of War or the Reunification War?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 07 March 2013, 23:42:44
You've certainly picked an interesting time to go for the Lyran Commonwealth; once the 3145 books start rolling in, you'll have quite a lot to try and deal with.

Fah!

The rest of the 'Verse can kiss our 100 ton blue butts! Bring it on! Alaric's a Steiner, Roderick's a Steiner, and Calamity works for the Steiners!  ;D  O0 [cheers]

We've been shot to peices so many times it's become a badge of honor.  8)


Then here's to our Alliance strong we are and brave
Like patriots of old we'll fight our heritage to save
And rather than submit to shame we’ll die we for those we love
So cheer for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears the Iron Glove!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nerroth on 08 March 2013, 00:01:11
The rest of the 'Verse can kiss our 100 ton blue butts! Bring it on! Alaric's a Steiner, Roderick's a Steiner, and Calamity works for the Steiners!  ;D  O0 [cheers]

Well, if the Homeworld Clans come a-knocking after 3145, there may be some Steiners the LC might want to try and keep at arms' length...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Death by Zeus on 08 March 2013, 02:09:31
Fah!

The rest of the 'Verse can kiss our 100 ton blue butts! Bring it on! Alaric's a Steiner, Roderick's a Steiner, and Calamity works for the Steiners!  ;D  O0 [cheers]

We've been shot to peices so many times it's become a badge of honor.  8)


Then here's to our Alliance strong we are and brave
Like patriots of old we'll fight our heritage to save
And rather than submit to shame we’ll die we for those we love
So cheer for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears the Iron Glove!


Hear, hear!!  Well said Brother!  And welcome Heregar, a decision well made!  ^-^
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 08 March 2013, 04:07:34
Welcome Heregar.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 08 March 2013, 04:45:24
Oh, glad to see rainbow 6 is back in the fold as well.  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 08 March 2013, 10:12:58
Yeah, its good to be home  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 March 2013, 11:45:54
Top that was frikin awesome. You have the heart of a skald.

 Welcome Heregar, ive been waiting for you to get here. I'm not heading into the dark age either. I hear we become to new CapCon... not my idea of the LC..

 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on 08 March 2013, 12:29:10
Any room for someone who finds this faction to be one of several they like? Also, the Sabaton link is what brought me off of the fence.  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 March 2013, 12:33:05
Always room for one more. There is timbiqui dark and cigars in the smoking lounge.  We dress for dinner at 8.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 08 March 2013, 12:34:43
Any room for someone who finds this faction to be one of several they like? Also, the Sabaton link is what brought me off of the fence.  :D

Have a Timbiqui dark, and welcome to the 40 to 1 club.   :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on 08 March 2013, 12:48:12
Have a Timbiqui dark, and welcome to the 40 to 1 club.   :D

^_^ Nice to be a part of it. Makes me want to do a campaign involving a Swedish-based Lyran unit.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 08 March 2013, 12:49:18
Any room for someone who finds this faction to be one of several they like? Also, the Sabaton link is what brought me off of the fence.  :D

Same boat as me.  I refuse to limit myself to just one. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 March 2013, 13:08:54
Same boat as me.  I refuse to limit myself to just one.

 You're always welcome Ian.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 08 March 2013, 14:08:18
Same boat as me.  I refuse to limit myself to just one.

Doubtless that's common. The Colonel can attest to my posting on the Blood Spirits board. Now that was a pretty strange thing for me when I started liking them, having been such an anti-clanner.  ;D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 08 March 2013, 14:14:12
^_^ Nice to be a part of it. Makes me want to do a campaign involving a Swedish-based Lyran unit.
I think that we are going to get along  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 08 March 2013, 14:40:47
Nice to see all the love for Sabaton. I actually happen to be a big fan of them and saw them in Germany on stage twice. Awesome shows. ;)

Seeing the national anthem thread, I think "Ghost Division" would make for a good LC anthem. ^^
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 March 2013, 15:10:33
Doubtless that's common. The Colonel can attest to my posting on the Blood Spirits board. Now that was a pretty strange thing for me when I started liking them, having been such an anti-clanner.  ;D

 Same here Top. I hated clanners. Knly thing i liked them for was salvage. I'll never have any like at all for the green turkeys... ever. Aiden Pride is the worst character i have ever read. I want to pour bleach in my eyes because of reading the whole series about him, Martha and especially Joannah and the way she killer the black widow.

Then i started reading about the spirits...then the Horses.

 I'm also a Marian Hegemony fan. But the LC has always been my favorite.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 08 March 2013, 15:40:55
Welcome Heregar, ive been waiting for you to get here. I'm not heading into the dark age either. I hear we become to new CapCon... not my idea of the LC..

Ah but look where the CapCon is today, if we can bounce back like that (and given our better industrial base it should be possible) then look out the rest of the inner sphere.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 March 2013, 19:26:02
Seems like we're getting eaten away peacemeal though. First Rasalhaige, then the Clans then the RoTS then more clans...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Death by Zeus on 08 March 2013, 19:43:59
Any room for someone who finds this faction to be one of several they like? Also, the Sabaton link is what brought me off of the fence.  :D

Sabaton?  Who dat?  Looks up on youtube..........holy snot that's awesome!  No prob Gustav, there are quite a few factions that hold the interest.  Even for the diehards here. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on 09 March 2013, 03:12:10
Same here Top. I hated clanners. Knly thing i liked them for was salvage. I'll never have any like at all for the green turkeys... ever. Aiden Pride is the worst character i have ever read. I want to pour bleach in my eyes because of reading the whole series about him, Martha and especially Joannah and the way she killer the black widow.

Then i started reading about the spirits...then the Horses.

 I'm also a Marian Hegemony fan. But the LC has always been my favorite.

Hey now... I'm a Clan Diamond Shark/Sea Fox fan. If only because it's the other rich faction. <.< And I'll say amen to the Marian Hegemony. :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 09 March 2013, 04:39:19
As they say: Follow the money.. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 09 March 2013, 04:43:30
As they say: Follow the money.. ;)

The Mercenaries Battle Chant: Victory or Debt! Victory or debt! Victory or debt!

It also works quite well for Lyrans...then again, considering how many Mercenaries seem to originate from the Lyrans...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 09 March 2013, 05:04:06
Yeah, we actually seem to be able to draw from a pool of excellent mercs, especially now since we also harbor the Dragoon refugees. IIRC by the DA they are back to regiment status and still on Arc-Royal?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 09 March 2013, 06:44:59
As of FM3085 that is correct.

To mark my return to the LCAF i've just ordered up a new Assault Lance from Ral Partha Europe :- Zeus, Emporer, Highlander and Stalker.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 09 March 2013, 06:49:52
Thought I might share this with you.

Post BoF status:
Provinces and Theaters affected (basis for comparison is the 3130 map:

Dixie --> remaining Lyran systems: Abramkovo, Zdice
(The Dixie/Cavanaugh II Theater is gone!)

Bolan --> remaining Lyran systems: Bolan, Gypsum, Hesperus II, Trent, Eidsfoss, Canonbie, Furillo, Clotat, Bjornlunda, Jaumegarde, Colinas, Turinge
(most crucial systems remain Lyran, even though the overall loss weighs heavy)

Buena --> lost to the Wolves: Smolnik

Donegal --> lost to the Jade Turkeys: Lucianca, Leganes, Apostica, Ganshoren, Auldhouse, Breukelen, Carstairs, Yed Prior, Alexandria, Freedom, Eaton, Edasich, Kirkcaldy, Westerstede, Forkas
(the most crucial systems remain Lyran, the loss of Edasich and Freedom however weighs heavy on the heart)

Arc-Royal --> gained: Garrison, Surcin, Kerensky's Vision, Borghese (of course the Turkey's inherited Arcturus from the Wolves...)
lost to JTs: Zanderij

Coventry --> lost to JTs: Sargassa, Santana, Timkovichi, Wroclaw, Biuque, New Capetown, Guatavita, Krievci, Incukalns, Upano, Pobeda, Vorzel, Horneburg, Blumenort
(New Capetown is gone...)

Melissia --> lost to JTs: Zongshan, Machida, Melissia, Annunziata, Pangkalan, Chapultepec, Jesenice


Overall net loss: 89 systems
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 09 March 2013, 07:00:40
Yeah that sucks, but as you note we still control the majority of the important systems.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 09 March 2013, 08:45:49
As of FM3085 that is correct.

To mark my return to the LCAF i've just ordered up a new Assault Lance from Ral Partha Europe :- Zeus, Emporer, Highlander and Stalker.
You can always use a Zeus and a Highlander O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 09 March 2013, 10:15:42
You can always use a Zeus and a Highlander O0

 Stalker also. So many good designs.  [drool]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 09 March 2013, 10:29:05
In that case, have you thought of trying out the versions of the LCAF from earlier time periods, such as the Age of War or the Reunification War?
Age of war has sparked a major interest in me, I already love older designs like the Striker,  Crossbow and Ymir  8)
I have been using Strikers and Merlins in 3025 campaigns and have just started using Crossbows.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Devens on 09 March 2013, 10:45:02
Given some of our recent naming convensions and our overall culture I tend to play on our scandinavian roots as well. 



Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 09 March 2013, 10:45:29
Age of war has sparked a major interest in me, I already love older designs like the Striker,  Crossbow and Ymir  8)
I have been using Strikers and Merlins in 3025 campaigns and have just started using Crossbows.

Commando 7X is 3025  }:)  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 09 March 2013, 10:46:51
Given some of our recent naming convensions and our overall culture I tend to play on our scandinavian roots as well.

I want Finnish Battlearmor infantry!  8)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Devens on 09 March 2013, 10:53:49
Before I forget to post it, welcome aboard Heregar.

Wlcome Back Rainbow 6


Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 09 March 2013, 10:59:28
Thanks for all the greetings I do remember your vaunted names and post from the old fourms. My old name was Mitsumoto 4 or 5 years ago. It is an honour to be amoung you O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 09 March 2013, 11:26:06
I want Finnish Battlearmor infantry!  8)

Not exactly Scandinavian though... ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 09 March 2013, 12:36:49
Not exactly Scandinavian though... ;)

 Yea, Finns are not Scando's...they're Slavic. Altho the largest minority in Finland is Swedes.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 09 March 2013, 12:41:03
Also not exactly Slavics. :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on 09 March 2013, 12:55:54
I consider them more of an in-between... also, we could use some winter warfare specialists. Especially snipers.  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 09 March 2013, 12:59:10
Talvisota! ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 09 March 2013, 13:01:58
I consider them more of an in-between... also, we could use some winter warfare specialists. Especially snipers.  :D
The Norwegians can help in those areas  8)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on 09 March 2013, 13:03:38
The Norwegians can help in those areas  8)

I was actually making a specific reference to a certain Finn... The one the Russians called Belaya Smert (translates to "White Death").
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Stormcrow on 09 March 2013, 13:06:55
You mean Simo Hayha. This guy was hard core
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 09 March 2013, 13:15:08
I want Finnish Battlearmor infantry!  8)

Here (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3351/undine-battle-armor-standard) you go.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 09 March 2013, 13:18:29
The Finns decimated the Soviets, Simo Hayha was epic. Every time I go to the range with my Tikka t3 I enjoy Finnish gun smithing.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 09 March 2013, 14:38:54
Bah.  As ever, Skye and Tamar get the short end of the stick.  Its why the Isle left!  ...And wants back in.  #P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 09 March 2013, 14:40:52
They can't come back, they have to be someone else's dissident movement now.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nerroth on 09 March 2013, 14:47:02
It's remarkable how little Skye and Tamar seem to matter in terms of the Lyran Commonwealth's self-identity, when both can be removed without noticeably affecting the self-identity of those who remain.

If you think about it, both the LC and FWL have only one of their three founding states still around as part of their respective realms as of 3145; but while the reformed League has a very different character due to the absence of Regulus and Andurien (and the collapse of the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth), the Lyrans still seem to have a reasonably familiar identity, albeit a highty embattled one.

And speaking of the re-formed League, the latest map in Bonfire makes it look like they have managed to re-claim Tamarind from the LCAF in the waks of the Wolf Empire's expansion into Lyran space. (That would be one thing to look for when the 3145 maps show up.)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 09 March 2013, 15:00:23
I think most derived from the original Kat Steiner's affinity towards German as a language and the Germanic heritage, which became en vogue nationwide. Thus culturally not a lot was amiss, since many regions had adopted the "new old" ways. And concerning what is left of the underlying Irish/Scottish heritage, the Commonwealth includes still the Donegal region, so yes... the loss of Skye doesn't appear as crushing towards the Lyran identity as one may assume.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Devens on 09 March 2013, 15:22:07
Part of why lyran culture survived as a unit is because after hundreds of years, Lyrans are Lyran.  One state with a common culture.  Sky always wanted to leave, now they got their wish courtesy of Delvin Stone.  We may be missing a couple of pieces, one of which(Tamar) we want back.  But in the end we are still Lyran.   

The FWL on the other hand has always been a collection of different cultures.  An alliance of member states.  Many small nations that cooperate.  Its why they have a tendancy to implode in civil war at the drop of a hat.  They have never been Leagers, they have been Andurians, Regulans, Orientians, etc.  When the League reformed, they only got back the Oriant-like members not the other ones.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 09 March 2013, 16:31:09
I think most derived from the original Kat Steiner's affinity towards German as a language and the Germanic heritage, which became en vogue nationwide. Thus culturally not a lot was amiss, since many regions had adopted the "new old" ways. And concerning what is left of the underlying Irish/Scottish heritage, the Commonwealth includes still the Donegal region, so yes... the loss of Skye doesn't appear as crushing towards the Lyran identity as one may assume.

 Donegal isn't Irish/scottish

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,26959.0.html  5th post down.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 09 March 2013, 16:53:53
Weird choice of name then.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 09 March 2013, 17:03:55
Weird choice of name then.

 I agree. I found it very strange. Even the Donegal Guards cite their ties to antient Ireland and put clovers as their symbol. See avatar.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 09 March 2013, 18:53:32
It could have just been originally named by Irish/Scottish settlers (two cultures that are ridiculously overrepresented in the BT Universe, really) who were then displaced by larger groups from other cultures.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nerroth on 09 March 2013, 23:33:54
I was checking out some Wikipedia pages (firstly about the shamrock, to see if it technically counts as a clover or not, but kind of branching off from there), and eventualy noted that there's a place in County Donegal (http://www.logainm.ie/14364.aspx) which translates "duibh linn" as... Devlin.

The English word Dublin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin#Toponymy) comes from "dubh linn", or "black pool"; though the official Irish name for the city is Baile Átha Cliath ("town of the hurdled ford"). There are other places in Ireland which have "dubh linn" or "duibh linn" in the name, one of which is anglicised as Devlin.

So, maybe that Celtic design in the Republic's emblem isn't just for show?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 09 March 2013, 23:40:45
I was checking out some Wikipedia pages (firstly about the shamrock, to see if it technically counts as a clover or not, but kind of branching off from there), and eventualy noted that there's a place in County Donegal (http://www.logainm.ie/14364.aspx) which translates "duibh linn" as... Devlin.

The English word Dublin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin#Toponymy) comes from "dubh linn", or "black pool"; though the official Irish name for the city is Baile Átha Cliath ("town of the hurdled ford"). There are other places in Ireland which have "dubh linn" or "duibh linn" in the name, one of which is anglicised as Devlin.

So, maybe that Celtic design in the Republic's emblem isn't just for show?

 The Viking started the city as a trade town.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nerroth on 10 March 2013, 00:08:09
True enough, though no-one is quite sure where Ptolemy's "Eblana" might have been.

It's kind of ironic how the two largest cities on the island of Ireland both have names to do with rivers you can't see anymore. The "black pool" which formed as the River Poddle fed into the River Liffey near Dublin Castle, but now the Poddle is channeled underground until it empties through an inconspicuous gate along Wellington Quay. While the river Farset (the mouth of which was known as Béal Feirste) is also fed through an underground route, feeding into the River Lagan beneath the modern-day city of Belfast.

And with that, I return the thread to its usual set of LC-related programming...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 10 March 2013, 09:34:29
I don't think over represented is quite right; it gives the allure of the exotic while still being very similar to the original target audience.  Foreign, but not too foreign. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 March 2013, 11:59:38
Any one else play a game of Donegal guards vs green turkeys on sunday? Scenario was for the Donegal commander to make the Turkeys commander in a blood asp force withdraw. Was a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 19 March 2013, 12:43:07
Jade Turkey in a Blood Asp? That doesn't seem right...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 19 March 2013, 12:48:32
Okay, I need some help from the Lyran fanbase. I need an OPFOR for my BForce-scale Mariks, and due to available minis(and my local group has plenty of Capellans already), I've decided to slowly build a Steiner regiment. I'm going for a Lyran Regulars force due to ease of painting. Any recommendations for a specific regiment to look at? As far as balance goes, the Marik 'mechs are already going to be on the heavy end of things, and Mariks already have far larger infantry forces than anyone else, but I was going to give the Steiner regiment a stronger armor contingent to even things out. Any advice?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 19 March 2013, 13:11:58
Okay, I need some help from the Lyran fanbase. I need an OPFOR for my BForce-scale Mariks, and due to available minis(and my local group has plenty of Capellans already), I've decided to slowly build a Steiner regiment. I'm going for a Lyran Regulars force due to ease of painting. Any recommendations for a specific regiment to look at? As far as balance goes, the Marik 'mechs are already going to be on the heavy end of things, and Mariks already have far larger infantry forces than anyone else, but I was going to give the Steiner regiment a stronger armor contingent to even things out. Any advice?

And what timeframe?

First or Second Succession War, 3025 era, Clan Invasion and 3060s, Jihad, Republic?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 19 March 2013, 13:18:26
Okay, I need some help from the Lyran fanbase. I need an OPFOR for my BForce-scale Mariks, and due to available minis(and my local group has plenty of Capellans already), I've decided to slowly build a Steiner regiment. I'm going for a Lyran Regulars force due to ease of painting. Any recommendations for a specific regiment to look at? As far as balance goes, the Marik 'mechs are already going to be on the heavy end of things, and Mariks already have far larger infantry forces than anyone else, but I was going to give the Steiner regiment a stronger armor contingent to even things out. Any advice?
The 11th Lyran Regulars are know to fight the Mariks, along with the 9th.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 19 March 2013, 13:19:22
Well the minis may see action in any timeframe, but given the use of modern machines and that the Marik force in question is a Regulan force built around a traditional 'mech regiment(as opposed to post-Jihad setups), I'd say any time from 3060, up to the end of the Jihad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 March 2013, 14:04:51
Pre 3060 we're still under the influence of the Suns so look at a RCT set up. Really depends on what kind of LC army you want... wall of steel or fast responce type. With the regulars you could see quite a few more older designs but if your on the border there would probably be plenty of FWL salvage so if there's a few designs you like and want to put in there you should.

 The rommel/patton is the main battle tank for us at this time still. I'd use quite a few but still have other fun designs you like.

 I know you like smaller faster designs, are you going to step out of there and go heavier? If you do we still have some good fast heavier designs in the( of cource ) falconer but there are some other really good FedCom mechs to use too. Think about a lance with a berserker, a ax man 2n and a pair of nightskys. Just a little nastyness there.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 19 March 2013, 14:07:17
The 10th Lyran Regulars are based on the Free Worlds border in that time frame.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 19 March 2013, 14:12:26
Pre 3060 we're still under the influence of the Suns so look at a RCT set up. Really depends on what kind of LC army you want... wall of steel or fast responce type.

The 1st Regulan are practically a Wall of Steel themselves, but rather light on armored support. I was thinking of making the Lyran regiment a mixed-weright one that's leaning towards medium weights, and making up the firepower difference with a larger contingent of solid heavy tanks.

The 11th Lyran Regulars are know to fight the Mariks, along with the 9th.
The 10th Lyran Regulars are based on the Free Worlds border in that time frame.

What can you tell me about these units?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 19 March 2013, 14:15:01
Concerning Armored forces don't forget to include Demolisher II, Alacorn, Demolisher and SturmFeuer.

A bunch of Alacorn VIs escorted by 1-3 Demolisher IIs. Always neat to have.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 19 March 2013, 15:08:48
And in addition to the Rommel and Patton, they also make heavy use of the Manticore.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 19 March 2013, 16:21:57
What can you tell me about these units?

The 10th Lyran 'The stinging Barflies' are a medium weight regiment that are (in the 3060's) supported by a regiment of Panzers and a light infantry regiment.

Not as clued up on the 11th but think they are called 'The Hammers' not aware of any support they may have though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 19 March 2013, 16:36:01
The 10th Lyran 'The stinging Barflies' are a medium weight regiment that are (in the 3060's) supported by a regiment of Panzers and a light infantry regiment.

I like this one, it sounds like exactly what I seek. Thanks! O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 20 March 2013, 10:45:40
The 11th "The hammers" took part in Operation ÜBERSCHATTEN and Operation Broken fist.Despite being a under-strength green unit, the Eleventh refused calls to surrender  O0 If you want ease of painting habe you thought of any Arcturan guards? Let me look if any are near the FWL boarder in that time frame.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 20 March 2013, 10:50:15
If you want ease of painting habe you thought of any Arcturan guards?

Aren't the Arcturan Guards all white? White is the very opposite of easy painting. It is second only to yellow in terms of frustration. I flatly REFUSE to paint white unless I absolutely have to.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 20 March 2013, 11:08:49
Aren't the Arcturan Guards all white? White is the very opposite of easy painting. It is second only to yellow in terms of frustration. I flatly REFUSE to paint white unless I absolutely have to.
You are correct in there colour, and since you dislike it we will forget that I mentioned it  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 March 2013, 12:15:54
Lyran guards units are blue and white though.

My mistake... you wanted regulars....

 http://camospecs.com/Unit.asp?ID=655
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Xtrahmxwohld on 20 March 2013, 12:42:46
Aren't the Arcturan Guards all white? White is the very opposite of easy painting. It is second only to yellow in terms of frustration. I flatly REFUSE to paint white unless I absolutely have to.

You could do the 15th Arcturan who will use a Tiger Stripe scheme while on parade:

Quote
When on parade or ceremonial duties, vehicles of the Arcturan Guards use a flat white paint scheme with no highlights or contrast colors. In the field, tiger stripes are painted on the upper arms of the unit's 'Mechs, and on parade the unit adopts the animal's black, white and gold camouflage.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 March 2013, 15:24:14
The 15th Arcturan were deployed near the Snake and Jade Turkey borders during that time fame though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 20 March 2013, 17:14:21
Lyran guards units are blue and white though.

 http://camospecs.com/Unit.asp?ID=655

But Camospecs always paint them White and Blue.  :(

After all, if your going to do livery or heraldry, do it right.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 20 March 2013, 19:10:27
I'm curious about what the Steiner fandom thinks of the possibility of having an 'Alaric Steiner' as Archon.

In my own opinion he'd be exactly the sort of Steiner I could enjoy, if I could ignore his clan taint.

OTOH, I also rather like the Alessandro & Katherine 'Call me Katrina' flavors of Steiner-dom rather than view their reigns as unfortunate blemishes.  So maybe I perversely like what's supposed to be a 'disaster'. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 20 March 2013, 19:58:35
Having that kind of military and political acumen and prowess combined in our Archon would be tempting. Having the Touman of Clan Wolf as the hammer, where the LCAF is the anvil would be tempting. Having one less enemy would be tempting.
Being the first Great House conquered by a Clan is NOT tempting.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 March 2013, 20:03:27
This guy is that clan wolf guy right? Child of Katy and Vic? Burn him with the rest of his clan and the jade falcons. Give us our planets back.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 20 March 2013, 20:13:28
Having his military and political prowess in our leader would be tempting. Having the Touman of Clan Wolf as the hammer, where the LCAF is be the anvil would be tempting. Having one less enemy would be tempting.

The 'Steiner is my 2nd favorite faction' side of me thinks this is such an awesome possibility.  The 'Kurita is my 1st favorite faction' side of me is grateful for the twin buffers of the Falcon desant & Vega prefecture between the DCMS and the Steiners :D

Quote
Being the first Great House to be conquered by a Clan is NOT tempting.

Yeah but that's the thing.  It's only 'conquered' in the Wolf-fanboi forum.  Hell you can look at it directly the opposite way.. a Steiner 'abomination' conquered the WOLVES.  We've seen how lovely state alliances work out.. but even if the dual kingdoms reign of a Steiner Archon/Khan falls apart after a generation like the F-C did.. you've still got that generation of combined smashyness.  No reason it couldn't last until at least the next reset in the ilClan era.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 20 March 2013, 20:17:47
Assumed there would be some kind of melting the LyrCom and Clan Wolf, it would be fun to see how things go from perfect to bad to worse as soon as his actual genetic heritage would be publicized.

If it goes down, it'll go down in a firestorm   }:)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 20 March 2013, 20:38:32
I'm curious about what the Steiner fandom thinks of the possibility of having an 'Alaric Steiner' as Archon.

I think it would be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 20 March 2013, 21:15:46
Who's used the Defiance in any varient before?  Curious on some of it's outings.

I've used it some and have an opinion but I was curious about the masses  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 20 March 2013, 21:18:40
On paper it never impressed me. The mini looks pretty good though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 March 2013, 21:40:32
Have not had a chance to use it... yet.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 20 March 2013, 22:09:23
Needs CASE badly.  The ERPPC models run hotter than I prefer, making it only OK as a standoff design.  I don't mind the model with PPCs, as they're not awful and more in line with its heat capacity.  All of them improve as they close up, as they have enough weapons to mix and match.  Overall, not thrilled with it, but the PPC one is useful to me.  I was hoping for it to be more of a flagship design rather than a hotbox Marauder variant.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 21 March 2013, 00:05:32
Who's used the Defiance in any varient before?  Curious on some of it's outings.

I've used it some and have an opinion but I was curious about the masses  :D

It is a great fighter...oh, wait..you mean the deathtrap 'mech? Nope..I refuse to touch the thing. It is a deathtrap.
Seriously, in this day and age, there is NO excuse to not put CASE in when you have ALL that ammo. Especially when
you put all that ammo in ONE LOCATION.  In fact, I almost consider putting a pilot into the 'mech as a way of saying
"We want you dead, but we cannot find the evidence to court martial and execute you."
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 21 March 2013, 02:00:10
Who's used the Defiance in any varient before?  Curious on some of it's outings.

I've used it some and have an opinion but I was curious about the masses  :D
► DFN-3C is just prototype. For all practical purposes, not present in the BattleTech universe anymore. I don't care about it.

► DFN-3S is just a Meh! 'Mech. I used it a few times, but I wasn't happy with it.
And on this type of 'Mech, the TSM is not of much use. Often I am running hot to use TSM, but there's no enemy around to kick. Sometimes it's problematic to keep the heat at the needed level. Just more troubles than it is worth.

► DFN-3T is the only model worth taking. It's essentially Warhammer with Light engine instead of standard reactor, which used spared weight to add LBX autocannon (when compared with standard WHM-6R). Easiest to use and most effective of all three variants. When I am in mood to take Defiance, this is the one I take. Those standard PPCs have shorter reach than ER models, but it's bearable. I use it as Warhammer with added autocannon firepower and I do not care about TSM.

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 21 March 2013, 07:30:23
Interesting!  Thanks!

I've used it a few times and alright success, though I'm hitting the TSM and racing foward at the enemy to kick them While things like Hauptmann's, Banshee's, or Thunder Hawks are providing covering fire and making the bad guys chose who to shoot at.  It is decidedly flawed, with the 3T being the best of the bunch due to it's damage/tsm/heat managment.  Ammo's an issue as well and in an ideal world, the MG and ammo would be dropped for CASE and more armor.  Sadly the BV's even pretty high for what you get, but I might still try to work with it  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 21 March 2013, 15:20:15
This guy is that clan wolf guy right? Child of Katy and Vic? Burn him with the rest of his clan and the jade falcons. Give us our planets back.

I couldn't put it better than the good Colonel already did.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 21 March 2013, 15:32:54
I say make Alaric Archon, have him monkey-stomp our enemies, retake Tamar, and then Herb can put a nuke in Alaric's shorts if he wants to.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 21 March 2013, 15:39:33
Ah, who cares about space-Afghanistan? :P
I'd rather have back Sudeten, Pandora (at least that one's about to happen during the Republic era), Blackjack, Butler, Twycross, Somerset. These are valuable planets that would immediately catapult the Commonwealth in the front seat of the universe in terms of pure production capabilities.
That Clan Jade Turkey would cease to exist in the process is of course a very neat bonus. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 21 March 2013, 18:35:52
Ah, who cares about space-Afghanistan? :P

Tamar?

Its the home province of the Black Pearl!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ratwedge on 21 March 2013, 18:58:28
I say make Alaric Archon, have him monkey-stomp our enemies, retake Tamar, and then Herb can put a nuke in Alaric's shorts if he wants to.

You don't need Alaric for that.

The industrial heartland of the Lyran Commonwealth still stands free of Wolves and Falcons.

Someone just needs to turn the space between Dongeal, Hesperus and Arc-Royal into their new fiefdom and then being the preparations.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 22 March 2013, 14:59:42
Aye, we need to get Tamar, Sudeten etc all back under the Fist banner and Skye to.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 23 March 2013, 05:22:26
Screw Skye, there a bunch traitorous blatherskites
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 23 March 2013, 05:39:21
Screw Skye, there a bunch traitorous blatherskites

But 1st Skye Jägers have decided to be loyal to the Commonwealth.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 23 March 2013, 06:12:52
But 1st Skye Jägers have decided to be loyal to the Commonwealth.

Exactly, and now they've seen what life's like outside of the Commonwealth I dare say quite a few of our former countrymen will want to come back.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 23 March 2013, 07:00:42
But 1st Skye Jägers have decided to be loyal to the Commonwealth.
IIRC, they owed their very existence to Katherine and the LA, not to the Isle of Skye.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 23 March 2013, 07:09:30
IIRC, they owed their very existence to Katherine and the LA, not to the Isle of Skye.

No, they were specifically recruited from the Skye Province inhabitants.

During the FedCom Civil War they cooperated with Skye Separatists.

And yet, most soldiers turned down Devlin Stone's offer. So not all people from the Isle of Skye are "a bunch traitorous blatherskites".
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 23 March 2013, 11:00:49
Just enough of them that the rest of us have decided that if they want it so bad they can go off and be someone else's problem for a change.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 23 March 2013, 11:06:52
Frankly, its no different.  The FedCom/LA/LC has made zero effort outside of Op: Audacity to reclaim any lost worlds.  Now, Skye might very well not be worth the effort, but the political and military will to reclaim that swath of lost worlds is severely lacking in both the IC universe leadership and the OOC fan base.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 23 March 2013, 11:38:44
Frankly, its no different.  The FedCom/LA/LC has made zero effort outside of Op: Audacity to reclaim any lost worlds. 

Well, only in that direction.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 March 2013, 13:20:49
Frankly, its no different.  The FedCom/LA/LC has made zero effort outside of Op: Audacity to reclaim any lost worlds.  Now, Skye might very well not be worth the effort, but the political and military will to reclaim that swath of lost worlds is severely lacking in both the IC universe leadership and the OOC fan base.

 Not entirely true. If it were up to me I'd boost our production levels sky( no pun intended ) high. Refit the regiments and launch a counter attack on the falcons. I'd use our lap dogs on Arc Royal as a blunt instrument to bloody their noses. Then swing in with RCT's once they're hurting and retreatjng. I'd make use of hidden or dead worlds to manufacturer warships and other forgotten worlds to train troops.  I'll give it the WoB, they had a couple good ideas.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 23 March 2013, 13:26:22
Frankly, its no different.  The FedCom/LA/LC has made zero effort outside of Op: Audacity to reclaim any lost worlds.  Now, Skye might very well not be worth the effort, but the political and military will to reclaim that swath of lost worlds is severely lacking in both the IC universe leadership and the OOC fan base.

I always had the feeling that from an in-universe POV, the Lyran mentality and leadership were actually selling themselves short most of the time. If a little more daring and aggressive while at the same time a little smarter, they could have easily have established themselves as one of the leading if not THE leading power in the sphere.
Ok, I guess Melissa II was daring a little too much. Well, but actually, I would actually dare say that she was intenionally written as being horribly stupid (basically investing the Lyran wealth in ComStar for no reason whatsoever, acting from a position of ridiculous arrogance towards the crusader Wolves etc.).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 12:15:08
I have to confess, the thing that bugs me the most about ER3145 is the artwork of the Steiner women. I mean... what happened? Since when are Steiner women so fugly???
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: GreekFire on 06 April 2013, 12:22:18
Since Davion genes got into the mix.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 12:27:28
Hm, but that can't be said for Melissa Steiner II. And she still almost looks like a dude and that's putting it very mildly.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 06 April 2013, 12:30:10
Hm, but that can't be said for Melissa Steiner II. And she still almost looks like a dude and that's putting it very mildly.

All those dead people look alike.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 12:37:36
I could be wrong, but it seems like the responsible artist is very decent at depicting male faces, but it's the complete opposite for female faces. Even Malvina Hazen and Anastasia Kerensky (obviously made by the same artist given the style), which in previous depictions were fair looking women, are fugly as sin as of ER3145. I mean age does that to women, but hell... they must have aged rather quickly.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 12:53:38
btw, any comments regarding our new RAT?
A lot of Clan goodness, probably the most out of all the successor states. Though I find it a tad weird that there is neither the Atlas AS7-K2/3 as well as the Barghest from Prototypes but rather older variants.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caesar Steiner for Archon on 06 April 2013, 12:58:14
btw, any comments regarding our new RAT?
A lot of Clan goodness, probably the most out of all the successor states. Though I find it a tad weird that there is neither the Atlas AS7-K2/3 as well as the Barghest from Prototypes but rather older variants.

No Hauptmann or Fafnir but we have the Sunder. It is shameful. Just shameful.

On the other hand WiE is no longer its own faction but is just a sub-affiliation of the LC in both RAT and RPG rules now. It's like reprogramming a cult victim: you can gradually ease someone out of the Clan mindset.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 06 April 2013, 13:17:56
I'm really digging this one.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 13:25:10
No Hauptmann or Fafnir but we have the Sunder. It is shameful. Just shameful.

On the other hand WiE is no longer its own faction but is just a sub-affiliation of the LC in both RAT and RPG rules now. It's like reprogramming a cult victim: you can gradually ease someone out of the Clan mindset.

true @ Fafnir and Hauptmann
Seems like nobody saw the need to rebuild those lines (for no apparent reason whatsoever obviously)

And yeah, that might be the explanation to the mystery why there's so much Clan-tech all of a sudden.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 06 April 2013, 14:39:14
No mystery to the Clantech.  Everyone buys from the Sea Foxes.  (Whether they want to or not ;) )
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 14:42:14
No mystery to the Clantech.  Everyone buys from the Sea Foxes.  (Whether they want to or not ;) )

Compare the Clan-tech units to the other great houses. Steiner has a lot more at her disposal.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 06 April 2013, 14:43:47
Deeper pockets.  And hidden in those pockets, the WiE! :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: GreekFire on 06 April 2013, 15:16:36
Deeper pockets.  And hidden in those pockets, the WiE! :)

I don't think the Lyrans have any pockets left, not after they had their pants ripped out from under them by those rascally Clanners.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 15:54:14
Investing billions in ComStar for no apparent reason (thanks again Melissa) and without any gain was probably more decisive in that regard.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caesar Steiner for Archon on 06 April 2013, 15:58:19
Deeper pockets.  And hidden in those pockets, the WiE! :)

I wouldn't be surprised if Defiance Industries was producing some of it themselves.  I mean, they'd perfected their Clantech XL in the 3080s.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 16:08:29
I wouldn't be surprised if Defiance Industries was producing some of it themselves.  I mean, they'd perfected their Clantech XL in the 3080s.

Huh? I remember something like "much too costly for mass production".
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ratwedge on 06 April 2013, 17:48:09
Compare the Clan-tech units to the other great houses. Steiner has a lot more at her disposal.

I doubt it.

Just a quick glance through it shows the Lyrans have access to mainly what Clan Wolf in Exile has access to, which is no surprise as they share the same RAT as the Lyrans in this Era Report.  I'd say this is just a mere case of the Lyran RAT enjoying the benefits of sharing a RAT with a Clan than actually fielding more Clantech than anyone else.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caesar Steiner for Archon on 06 April 2013, 17:51:49
Huh? I remember something like "much too costly for mass production".

It was expensive, but it was a perfect replica.  Once you get that down you spend the next 60 years making it less expensive.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 17:58:34
It was expensive, but it was a perfect replica.  Once you get that down you spend the next 60 years making it less expensive.

Sounds about right if common sense is applied, somehow I doubt it thought that TRO Steiner will see many indigenous units sporting Clan spec XL engines. After reading TRO Mercs and ER3145 it seems like we continue suffering beating on all fronts. Advancing our native military industrial base like that (we're no RotS after all which gets free Clan-factories set up by Bears and Sharks thanks to the divine charisma possessed by Devlin Stone) just doesn't fit the picture that TPTB are painting for the Commonwealth for a while now.

Also I highly doubt that we reap any benefits of the Clan-grade factories on Pandora (remember? by 3130 Pandora was back in the Commonwealth).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gray Jaguar on 06 April 2013, 18:34:19
Sounds about right if common sense is applied, somehow I doubt it thought that TRO Steiner will see many indigenous units sporting Clan spec XL engines. After reading TRO Mercs and ER3145 it seems like we continue suffering beating on all fronts. Advancing our native military industrial base like that (we're no RotS after all which gets free Clan-factories set up by Bears and Sharks thanks to the divine charisma possessed by Devlin Stone) just doesn't fit the picture that TPTB are painting for the Commonwealth for a while now.

Also I highly doubt that we reap any benefits of the Clan-grade factories on Pandora (remember? by 3130 Pandora was back in the Commonwealth).

All good points though I still think we'll see some indigenous units sporting Clan Tech because of the amount of salvage that had to have been gained through the conflict against three Clans.  I know that there was likely a lot of waste, loss, and since most of the actions were losing ones that there won't be a plethora.  However, I can bet that with the successful actions, and the prolonged defenses were defenders were able to escape that a decent amount made it back.  At least enough of the stuff to justify at least one design in the new TRO.  Granted, its partially just wishful thinking because I don't want to be part of ANOTHER faction that has to become some kind of secret police/trump card because they were stomped into the ground and pushed out of history -_-
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 18:42:52
So what I gather from your post is that you are in fact some closet Lyran? ^^
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gray Jaguar on 06 April 2013, 18:45:11
So what I gather from your post is that you are in fact some closet Lyran? ^^

Yes... I mean... no... I mean... look I like big Mechs, and I cannot lie.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 18:46:33
 O0

Let's hope we'll bounce back with a vengeance... the first time in like... ever.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gray Jaguar on 06 April 2013, 18:50:30
O0

Let's hope we'll bounce back with a vengeance... the first time in like... ever.

Not sure that'll be possible once the second Clan Invasion kicks in.  I think we've seen the end of Lyran dominance in the market place.  Some part of me fears, we will be replaced by Clan Diamond Shark as the setting's trade empire.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 18:58:26
Not sure that'll be possible once the second Clan Invasion kicks in.  I think we've seen the end of Lyran dominance in the market place.  Some part of me fears, we will be replaced by Clan Diamond Shark as the setting's trade empire.

Well, we had actually already been eclipsed by the super-awesome RotS by the turn of the century according to earlier publications. But the Sharks/Foxes are the new economical super power by the time the RotS is torn asunder, no question about it.
Not only did we lose our econpmical status, but also we're basically broke thanks to Melissa IIs ingenious scheming to buy up ComStar, which as we know resulted in horrible failure and was basically just used by TPTB to explain how ComStar was able to survive after the blackout and even rebuild their military arm. So from ComStar's PoV we were fully knowingly exploited.

With all the crap we were served, I guess we can be thankful for surprisingly NOT losing our most important industrial planet to the Turkeys.

But well, one can hope.


For the coming of the Star Adders, I simply hope they don't take the obvious route but rather hammer the Combine or the Bears, Turkeys and Horses.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: GreekFire on 06 April 2013, 19:00:21
Not sure that'll be possible once the second Clan Invasion kicks in.  I think we've seen the end of Lyran dominance in the market place.  Some part of me fears, we will be replaced by Clan Diamond Shark as the setting's trade empire.

It does seem that way, doesn't it? The Commonwealth and the FWL are shadows of their former economic selves, the FedSuns isn't going to do any exporting any time soon, and the Dracs and Caps aren't really well known for their mercantile ways. It looks like the Foxes are the biggest traders ATM.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gray Jaguar on 06 April 2013, 19:01:10
Well, we had actually already been eclipsed by the super-awesome RotS by the turn of the century according to earlier publications. But the Sharks/Foxes are the new economical super power by the time the RotS is torn asunder, no question about it.
Not only did we lose our econpmical status, but also we're basically broke thanks to Melissa IIs ingenious scheming to buy up ComStar, which as we know resulted in horrible failure and was basically just used by TPTB to explain how ComStar was able to survive after the blackout and even rebuild their military arm. So from ComStar's PoV we were fully knowingly exploited.

With all the crap we were served, I guess we can be thankful for surprisingly NOT losing our most important industrial planet to the Turkeys.

But well, one can hope.


For the coming of the Star Adders, I simply hope they don't take the obvious route but rather hammer the Combine or the Bears, Turkeys and Horses.


I'll start skimming factions to find a new one to doom with my patronage.  I think I'll destroy a Mercenary group this time with my hopes and dreams -_-;;
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 19:03:36
Go with the Dragoons. ;)
No matter how hard they get slapped around, they still seem to recover to former strength.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gray Jaguar on 06 April 2013, 19:05:56
Go with the Dragoons. ;)
No matter how hard they get slapped around, they still seem to recover to former strength.

In other news, thanks to Gray Jaguar's support, the Wolf's Dragoons have been destroyed completely, utterly, and without remorse in 3245.  The Lyran Commonwealth is now just the Lyran Principalities in the Periphery, and the Fidelis misjumped into a supernova.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 19:07:21
In other news, thanks to Gray Jaguar's support, the Wolf's Dragoons have been destroyed completely, utterly, and without remorse in 3245. 

Well, that was the ulterior motive behind my recommendation ;)

The Lyran Commonwealth is now just the Lyran Principalities in the Periphery, and the Fidelis misjumped into a supernova.

 :(
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: roosterboy on 06 April 2013, 21:16:16
Not only did we lose our econpmical status, but also we're basically broke thanks to Melissa IIs ingenious scheming to buy up ComStar, which as we know resulted in horrible failure and was basically just used by TPTB to explain how ComStar was able to survive after the blackout and even rebuild their military arm.

Melissa's kroners had nothing to do with ComStar's remilitarization, which was an ongoing project even before the Blackout. And wasn't terribly extensive anyway.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 21:20:39
Melissa's kroners had nothing to do with ComStar's remilitarization, which was an ongoing project even before the Blackout. And wasn't terribly extensive anyway.

Ok, maybe I remembered the passages in the respective novels incorrectly. It's been a while since I've read them.
Still, it was one of the many failures of the glorious Melissa II.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gray Jaguar on 06 April 2013, 21:22:45
Ok, maybe I remembered the passages in the respective novels incorrectly. It's been a while since I've read them.
Still, it was one of the many failures of the glorious Melissa II.

And also why we should elect my OC Melanie Steiner to the office.  Better Mel, Twice the Steiner, all the awesome of an AeroSpace trained Duchess.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 21:38:32
Well, probably ever other alternative except for Vedet Brewster would have been a better option than Melissa II :P

btw, regarding ComStar it states: "Her propping up of ComStar’s interests within the Commonwealth for so many years after the Blackout certainly put an undue strain on the Lyran coffers while returning little for the investment."

So my statement was incorrect concerning the rebuilding of the ComGuards, not however concerning the actual survival of ComStar.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gray Jaguar on 06 April 2013, 21:45:39
Well, probably ever other alternative except for Vedet Brewster would have been a better option than Melissa II :P

btw, regarding ComStar it states: "Her propping up of ComStar’s interests within the Commonwealth for so many years after the Blackout certainly put an undue strain on the Lyran coffers while returning little for the investment."

So my statement was incorrect concerning the rebuilding of the ComGuards, not however concerning the actual survival of ComStar.

You make it sound like she would have a choice in the matter.  Ick Ein Archon.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 21:48:31
Well obviously nobody else saw the need to prop up ComStar but her... I guess there's a reason...

"Ick"? So you're also a closet Berliner (which I am btw :P)? ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gray Jaguar on 06 April 2013, 21:50:49
Well obviously nobody else saw the need to prop up ComStar but her... I guess there's a reason...

"Ick"? So you're also a closet Berliner (which I am btw :P)? ;)

I have been having a conversation with a closet in Berlin?  This... this is news ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 06 April 2013, 21:54:28
No, "closet" as in "secret" Berliner (=inhabitant/native of/to Berlin). "Ick" is dialect for "Ich" (= "I") common among mostly the lower social class living in Berlin.

Then you would need to add a "bin" (="am") right before the "ein" (="a"), even though you should rather take "der" (= male "the"), since there's only one Archon rather than many. ;)

But close enough, I guess...  :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 07 April 2013, 04:26:00
Not happy with the way Trillian left the ELH to die on Hesperus.

Thought the Commonwealth was supposed to treat its merc's with respect.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 07 April 2013, 04:37:28
Liek she had a 'real' choice in the matter.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Death by Zeus on 07 April 2013, 10:06:46
I have been having a conversation with a closet in Berlin?  This... this is news ;)
As Abaddon is saying, (in a less than round about way) "ich bin ein Lyraner", and the always favorite "Steiner uber alles!"  >:D ahem, I mean  O:-)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 07 April 2013, 10:07:39
Not happy with the way Trillian left the ELH to die on Hesperus.

Thought the Commonwealth was supposed to treat its merc's with respect.

That virtually falls into the "fool me twice..." category for the ELH.  That was the SECOND time House Steiner screwed the ELH over on the very same planet.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 07 April 2013, 10:41:22
Talk about history repeating itself.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 07 April 2013, 14:58:53
Yeah, but they won't be coming back like they managed the last time  :'(
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 07 April 2013, 15:30:00
I think, given the legal history there, it was pretty apparent.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caesar Steiner for Archon on 07 April 2013, 20:40:19
I would imagine that if not for ClickTech using them, there wouldn't have been any survivors from the Jihad at all
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 07 April 2013, 20:49:19
I think, given the legal history there, it was pretty apparent.

They were Harmony Gold too? :o
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caesar Steiner for Archon on 07 April 2013, 21:28:36
I PUT DA HOUSE ON MAH BACK DAWG
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ABADDON on 07 April 2013, 21:47:10
I just noticed that Halfway vanished in the gap between Field Manual 3085 and Era Report 3145. Oo
Do we know what happened?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: foxbat on 08 April 2013, 02:21:22
I think, given the legal history there, it was pretty apparent.

 [copper]
let's please leave this issue out of the topic, please.
 [copper]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caesar Steiner for Archon on 09 April 2013, 00:42:25
That virtually falls into the "fool me twice..." category for the ELH.  That was the SECOND time House Steiner screwed the ELH over on the very same planet.

Well someone had to make that stunt look convincing. You hire mercenaries to die in the place of House troops. Once upon a time people just accepted that, but in an era where every author had a pet unit that he made out to be invincible, people forgot.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 09 April 2013, 04:20:49
Well someone had to make that stunt look convincing. You hire mercenaries to die in the place of House troops. Once upon a time people just accepted that, but in an era where every author had a pet unit that he made out to be invincible, people forgot.

I like the return to that in the ER3145. However, I also like that this time? Kurita seems to have learned its lesson. I mean, considering
that The Wolf's Dragoons managed to get enough salvage to equip a full battalion with Davion equipment and create the Wolfsbane Battalion? Looks like Kurita is actually treating them fairly this time around. Though, there is a certain grim irony in the
track 'Return to Misery': Fighting alongside the Ryoken on the very planet they once used as the Ryoken's 'Final Exam', against the Davions.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 30 April 2013, 18:34:37
Here (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3351/undine-battle-armor-standard) you go.

Kit, you're going to have to explain how Undine BA is Finnish, because I still can't figure out what the heck you mean.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 30 April 2013, 18:40:13
Kit, you're going to have to explain how Undine BA is Finnish, because I still can't figure out what the heck you mean.
It's got fins! Duh!  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 30 April 2013, 18:52:51
It's got fins! Duh!  :D

*facepalm*

Just for that, I am going to sic the Davoin fanboys on you by convincing them you are going to make Alaric the First Prince.  }:)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 01 May 2013, 14:16:04
Poor Kit, he deserves it though.  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 02 May 2013, 21:47:08
Hey, I'm doing a campaign as a planetary militia in the Commonwealth in 3085 (Kaumberg, if it makes a difference), and as I'm new to the whole militia thing, what kinds of units would I expect to see there? I know from Objectives: Lyran Alliance what kind of force composition to expect, in terms of how many vehicles, infantry, maybe a few IndustrialMechs, etc., but idk what types of tanks and platoons to field. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 02 May 2013, 23:18:48
Hey, I'm doing a campaign as a planetary militia in the Commonwealth in 3085 (Kaumberg, if it makes a difference), and as I'm new to the whole militia thing, what kinds of units would I expect to see there? I know from Objectives: Lyran Alliance what kind of force composition to expect, in terms of how many vehicles, infantry, maybe a few IndustrialMechs, etc., but idk what types of tanks and platoons to field. Any suggestions?

Hunters, Sturmfeurs, and Warriors are all good choices.   Cheap, effective, and very Lyran flavored.  You could also throw in a few squadrons of conventional fighters, as well.

I'm a big fan of artillery platoons, and they'd be great to use in addition to cheap rifle foot platoons.

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 May 2013, 23:58:10
When in doubt, the Rommel (Gauss) is always a good choice.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 03 May 2013, 05:45:38
Rommel AC/20 ain't too shabby neither! Nor the Hetzer.  O0


IIRC the hovercraft family Saladin / Scimitar / Saracen are common throughout the Inner Sphere, so these are also on the table for you. Common replacement/repair parts between them would help with a limited Militia budget.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 03 May 2013, 08:45:36
Hetzers gonna Hetz, baby! 8)

If you're wanting to go really low-tier, I'd go for Bulldogs and Vedettes as the core of your armored force. Dirt cheap, respectable firepower, and just enough armor that they don't fold in half on the first hit. You need good tactics to keep them alive, but if you treat them right they'll never let you down.

To back these guys up and make sure they actually survive against modern opponents, you need force multipliers(read: dirty tricks). Conventional fighters are a wonderful way to give yourself some air support without springing for expensive ASFs, and they can pack a surprising punch. Nobody likes an AC/20 to the back, and nothing stops an incoming tank column like a high-altitude bombing run that literally covers half a mapsheet in mines. Remote Sensors are really old tech, but they can help you keep tabs on an enemy's advance strategically, as well as assist in indirect fire tactically. Plenty of civilian-grade vehicles mount extra comm gear, and the command bonus that can impart will be a huge boost to your faster units. Take a page from wars past, and give some of your infantry field guns. Infantry ambushes are bad enough, but when those infantry have a large autocannon hidden in that stand of trees or in that alley, things go from bad to infinitely worse.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 03 May 2013, 09:29:56
Manticore is a classic all-around tank too.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 03 May 2013, 09:40:58
Manticore is a classic all-around tank too.

Perhaps pricey for militia, but if plot demands they can afford mechs, no reason they can't have nice tanks, too :)

I'll echo the suggestion on Vedettes.  They're so appropriate you're almost Doing It Wrong if you don't include them.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 May 2013, 13:25:50
Lets not forget the little munchy Lyran charmer... the hoverskates for an atlas... the savannah master!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 03 May 2013, 15:04:40
Thanks for the advice! I was thinking a lot of Vedettes, Hunters, Hetzers, and maybe some SRM/LRM carriers. I also threw two platoons of AC/10 field gunners into the infantry, and have two lances of mechs (mostly Crosscuts and Lumberjacks, and some Arbiters).

One more question: How homogenous and organized should a militia be? If I have four Hunters, should I put them in a lance together, or should it just be whatever I have?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 May 2013, 15:31:26
You certainly can put them all together. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. As far as Mechs go. You can put anything from the 3025 in there also.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 May 2013, 11:43:04
I was just reading over Kit's article on the Zeus. Such an iconic mech for us. I'm just wondering which is every ones favorite? 6S, 7T? Zeus Stacy? It's hard for me to pick really. I love the 6S because it's what i cut my teeth on but the Stacy is pure nasty.

 What's every ones thoughts?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 24 May 2013, 11:46:28
9T and X3 are my favorites, but in level one I'll use those as well... I want to try out the command cockpit version and the other from 3050u as it looks nasty!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 May 2013, 11:54:16
Me too. I need to get mega mek so i can try this stuff more often.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 24 May 2013, 12:04:44
I was just reading over Kit's article on the Zeus. Such an iconic mech for us. I'm just wondering which is every ones favorite? 6S, 7T? Zeus Stacy? It's hard for me to pick really. I love the 6S because it's what i cut my teeth on but the Stacy is pure nasty.

-7T? Perhaps ZEU-9T?

What's every ones thoughts?

My favorite is ZEU-9S2 as it does everything the old Zeus was good at - providing fire support.

After that comes ZEU-9T as it provides really nice ballance of weapons, and it has got a good reach.

ZEU-10WB is not a bad 'Mech, but I am not sure that the XL Gyro is the best thing on the medium-range BattleMech. But overal it's a good design.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 May 2013, 12:18:01
ZEU-6T where it swaps out the ac5 for a ppc... not 7T.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 24 May 2013, 12:22:26
ZEU-6T where it swaps out the ac5 for a ppc... not 7T.

Yes, ZEU-6T was a nice upgrade.


What do you think about ZEU-6Y Zeus? I have used it a few times, more for fun than because of its combat value.  :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 May 2013, 14:30:26
Yes, ZEU-6T was a nice upgrade.


What do you think about ZEU-6Y Zeus? I have used it a few times, more for fun than because of its combat value.  :)

 I haven't had a chance to use it yet. It looks fun. My gaming time has slowed way down lately. There's a bunch of designs i haven't had a chance to use for one reason or another. I tried that 10WB zeus once. Too much of a heat monster for me but bou does it put out the damage. I prefer the older designs with the sfe's over the xl's. I can deal with a light engine if need be though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 26 May 2013, 04:54:56
I tried that 10WB zeus once. Too much of a heat monster for me but bou does it put out the damage. I prefer the older designs with the sfe's over the xl's. I can deal with a light engine if need be though.

Did you try the old sheet or the new sheet? Old one: standard fusion engine and insanly low on heat sinks. New one: light fusion engine and a lot of additional heat sinks. Although it is still not adept to alpha strikes, it can be used with bracket firing. The light gyro could be a problem, but if you are not afraid of lucky shots, it can be a hell of a mech.

Personally i prefer the -9T. The -9S2 is a nice supporter, but as combat unit during early 3050s i would prefer the -5T all the day over that damn pulse laser -9S. I never understood why this mech was shown with RS 3039. It has all the goodies that were shown later and works even better than the later series.

The Zeus -6Y is a lame joke. A 80-ton-mech with 3 weapons and usually less than 20 points of damage. The blazer is even more garbage than the AC 5, and the kept that crap and dropped the additional medium lasers. Sorry, this was a try to bash Steiner once more.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 26 May 2013, 05:58:00
Personally i prefer the -9T. The -9S2 is a nice supporter, but as combat unit during early 3050s i would prefer the -5T all the day over that damn pulse laser -9S. I never understood why this mech was shown with RS 3039. It has all the goodies that were shown later and works even better than the later series.
I expressed the same opinion in the thread about Steiner 'Mechs.

In fact, in early 3050s when everyone was putting some Star League prototypes from the late 28th Century (such as the Nightstar, Dragon Fire or the Maelstrom) into production, it would had made sense to revive the similar ZEU-5T Zeus. Well, it didn't happen.

The Zeus -6Y is a lame joke. A 80-ton-mech with 3 weapons and usually less than 20 points of damage. The blazer is even more garbage than the AC 5, and the kept that crap and dropped the additional medium lasers. Sorry, this was a try to bash Steiner once more.

As you may see, both 'Mech can get over PSR threshold. The problem is the huge heat-inefficiency ot the Binary Laser Cannon, with which you pay for the headcapping opportunity:
ZEU-6S
- damage 5+9+8=22 (as average damage of LRM-15 is 9 points)

ZEU-6Y
- damage 5+6+12=23 (as average damage of LRM-10 is 6 points)

But you can still take ZEU-6Y onto the field "just for fun", as it is easy to use even without StratOps Quirks - even in simple 3025 game, although technically the Blazer is listed as the Experimental Tech. No special or complicated rules are really needed.

If you think it was the attempt to bash House Steiner, what should Marik players say? Their MAD-4X Marauder is hardly usable without real Advanced Rules and Quirks, and you can forget to take it into simple "Bier and Pretzels" game. So it's virtually incomparable with the ZEU-6Y.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 26 May 2013, 08:27:50
I agree, that 5T should have become the production model in 3050's and the 6Y... Martian, you're making osme really good points for it. I'm going to have to try it very soon. Maybe i'll break down and DL megamek to try it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 26 May 2013, 22:20:45
The lack of ammo for the LRMs, the AC5, and the lack of armor should make me hate the Zeus, but I just can't do it. It brings just enough to the table to be dangerous if it needs to be, but clearly its main function is (to me) enabling the commander to put up a fight if need be, but to focus on commanding.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 26 May 2013, 23:54:12
The lack of ammo for the LRMs, the AC5, and the lack of armor should make me hate the Zeus, but I just can't do it. It brings just enough to the table to be dangerous if it needs to be, but clearly its main function is (to me) enabling the commander to put up a fight if need be, but to focus on commanding.

Actually....I have always used it as part of recon units. You know: Zeus, Marauder, Griffin, Griffin. Lyrans, after all, believe in
"Recon in Force."
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 27 May 2013, 04:18:04
In the "classic" era of Battletech, each and every time I was in the process of flanking the lyran wall of steel I ran into Zeus-es, plodding along behind the main group of Atlas-es and Banshees.
And with their great reach (for the time) and acceptable mobility (again for the time) they put up quite a fight. The Zeus might not look impressive on paper, but I got a healthy respect for them. In fact i came to love to hate them.

And being lyran-only I also consider it one of the iconic Mechs of our hereditary enemy. Even back in TRO 3025 their distinctive look made them cool. I have yet to find another Mech that screams "Lyrans" to me the way the Zeus does. I still wait for a proper heir to the Zeus legacy.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 27 May 2013, 04:28:44
I still think there should be a canon Zeus with a Gauss Rifle/Light Gauss Rifle replacing the AC/PPC
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 27 May 2013, 04:53:04
I still think there should be a canon Zeus with a Gauss Rifle/Light Gauss Rifle replacing the AC/PPC

Actually, there are two such models:

1) ZEU-9S2 Zeus - Gauss rifle

2) Zeus Leonidas - customized ride armed with the Gauss Rifle
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 27 May 2013, 08:28:30
Actually, there are two such models:

1) ZEU-9S2 Zeus - Gauss rifle

2) Zeus Leonidas - customized ride armed with the Gauss Rifle

Wow...how did I miss those? RS3050Uu? Or ONN?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 27 May 2013, 09:47:52
Wow...how did I miss those? RS3050Uu? Or ONN?

ZEU-9S2
- Record Sheets: 3050 Upgrades Unabridged - Inner Sphere

Zeus Leonidas
- Historical Turning Points: Glengarry
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 27 May 2013, 09:59:27
*looks up the 9S2 and blinks* Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?! Two LRM 15's with 2 tons of ammo each?
That is actually not a bad support 'mech...for an Inner Sphere design.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 27 May 2013, 10:23:43
*looks up the 9S2 and blinks* Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?! Two LRM 15's with 2 tons of ammo each?
That is actually not a bad support 'mech...for an Inner Sphere design.

Yeah! Especially if you consider, when this 'Mech has appeared. What comparable fire-support 'Mechs did Lyrans have available at that time?

CRD-5S Crusader (65) - not enough ammo
AXM-2N Axman (65) - uses LRMs only to cover its approach
ARC-5S Archer (70) - with twin LRM-15s
LGB-0W Longbow (85) - a bit light on armor (144 points)
LGB-7Q Longbow (85) - good, but a bit slow
AWS-8R/8T Awesome (80) - not enough ammo

PPR-5S Salamander (80) has been introduced later.

So ZEU-9S2 Zeus is a quite respectable BattleMech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 27 May 2013, 10:56:50
The Zeus is still, in my opinion, one of the better support assaults(like I still consider the MAD-4A to be one of the
best Inner Sphere Assaults).

There are some 'mechs that are just darned good at their jobs. The Zeus, the Atlas, the Marauder II, the Awesome.
Gods..that is an Assault Lance that should make anyone nervous at trying to fight, regardless of the variants.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 27 May 2013, 14:08:27
Adf the stalker into that bunch of FS mechs we use.

 Played a game last night. We used a Zeus 5T, bushwacker L1, barghest 3T, stalker 3Fb vs.

 Dragon fire 3F, victor 9K, longbow 7V, thud 5Sb.

 Talking about the Zeus made me really want to play one. I wanted to try the wob one again with the light engine but couldn't find it, then i wanted to try the Stacy but i thought it might be too cheesy so i went with a standard. It turned out pretty well. Teaming up the bushwacker with the Zeus worked really well. I would lighten up the armor with the zeus( i was hitting really well last night too, lrm hitting high missiles amounts erll and erppc all hitting and many times all hitting in the same location.)  I took out the victor with everything hitting in the left torso, clearing it off making a forced withdraw. I then, the next round took the left torso out on the longbow, 2 crits, one hitting the ammo, cased, xl engine.

 The other team placed some water tiles in the center, the barghest hit the water and continued to fire the erll and heavy gauss. They were not hitting well last night so the barghest was barely scratched. The stalker took some damage from the dragon fire but not a lot. The game pasted about 7 rounds.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 27 May 2013, 14:46:30
I wanted to try the wob one again with the light engine but couldn't find it.

ZEU-10WB
- Record Sheets: 3050 Upgrades Unabridged - Inner Sphere
- you need the last edition of record sheets with the Cataphract on the white background, not the old edition with the Cataphract on the dark grey background.
- the armament of both old and new ZEU-10WB is almost identical, but the old one had the heat capacity of 22, while this new ZEU-10WB has 34 - so this time you can actually use "both" Heavy PPCs freely
- in my experience this 'Mech either ends with critted gyro in Round 1 (TAC), or it turns into indestructible and unforgiving zombie for the rest of the game.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 27 May 2013, 15:11:21
Weird, i am up to date on record sheets. Guess i missed it. I have all the record sheet pdf's in order but theres 4-5 3050's. I'll take a look again. Thanks Martian.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 27 May 2013, 18:06:56
Got some love on camo specs today. Another Donegal Guards beauty from Savage coyote.

 http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6623
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ratwedge on 28 May 2013, 04:06:38
Got some love on camo specs today. Another Donegal Guards beauty from Savage coyote.

 http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6623


Damn...

This would be the first time ever I would consider placing a Defiance down on the tabletop.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 28 May 2013, 04:12:18

Damn...

This would be the first time ever I would consider placing a Defiance down on the tabletop.

I would consider placing a Defiance down on the table top. Just the first thing I would do is dump the MG ammo...

Wait...I just realized something..The Defiance is the Lyran answer to the Hellbringer Prime!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 28 May 2013, 04:36:46
More or less.

Savage Coyote stated, that uses the -3T, not the inefficent -3S. These standard PPCs are a big difference in usage.
-3S: shoot one ER-PPC and some weapons of the rest and wait for the heat spike.
-3T: fire all big guns at distant targets and change out the PPCs for the small arms when it gets close and dirty. Never mind your heat level.

If i could drop something, it would be the TSM. Skyrocketing the BV and heating up an ammocarrying mech is playing with fire. Literally. (Most of the time, there is someone else out there, giving you extra heat when you don't need it...)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 30 May 2013, 10:24:16
Alright, so we know there will be a new Fenrir in our TRO, but I just stumbled upon an old picture of an Uziel II in one of my BT picture folders.
Any guess what that bad boy might bring to the table? Possibly an OmniMech?
(http://i.imgur.com/tXNv4A5.gif)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Neufeld on 30 May 2013, 11:14:55
Alright, so we know there will be a new Fenrir in our TRO, but I just stumbled upon an old picture of an Uziel II in one of my BT picture folders.
Any guess what that bad boy might bring to the table? Possibly an OmniMech?
(http://i.imgur.com/tXNv4A5.gif)

My guess: 80 ton, 5/8/5 movement, SRM6, 2xERLL, 6xERML. In other worlds, a Lyran medium mech.


Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 30 May 2013, 11:26:37
To be honest, that would be rather underwhelming. The ERLLs would be the biggest dissapointment as they are still among the most inefficient weapons ever. Actually I expect some Clan-tech in there, given the advances Defiance has made in the past (XTRO Steiner) concerning XL engines, given the reconquest of Pandora (though I still guess TPTB come up with something like "in the process of capturing the planet the Jade Falcons had more than enough time to self-destruct Red Devil Industries as well as the Quikscell plant because they were smart enough to realize they would not be able to reconquer Pandora") and the general availability due to the Sea Foxes activities.
But to be honest (again), the thing doesn't really strike me as 80 tons heavy. Maybe 60 or 65.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 May 2013, 13:00:36
Looks kind of like a bruin or what ever the name of the CGB mech is.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 30 May 2013, 13:06:48
Yeah, it's very similar to both the Bruin and the Viper 3 in appearance.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Daishi411 on 30 May 2013, 13:13:20
to me that looks like the front of the wulfen, and if it was designed by wizkids it could be just a recycled bit
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 May 2013, 13:13:56
Uziel II... maybe they made it 75 tons... with that wide flat body it looks like it has an xl or light engine.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 30 May 2013, 13:25:51
to me that looks like the front of the wulfen, and if it was designed by wizkids it could be just a recycled bit

It literally says "Uziel II", the Wulfen looks quite different. It was one of the art concepts by Brent Evans who IIRC is still (?) Catalyst's art director (?)
Many of his art concepts can now be seen in the first three TROs. I think it's highly likely that there will be an Uziel II in TRO 3145 LyrCom.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Daishi411 on 30 May 2013, 13:44:41
It literally says "Uziel II", the Wulfen looks quite different. It was one of the art concepts by Brent Evans who IIRC is still (?) Catalyst's art director (?)
Many of his art concepts can now be seen in the first three TROs. I think it's highly likely that there will be an Uziel II in TRO 3145 LyrCom.

you misunderstand, I know what the mech is, and yes I can read. I just thought the front of the mech looked like the front of the wulfen, I thought that was pretty clear in my post, as i never called the mech in question the wulfen.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 30 May 2013, 13:52:24
Alright, I misunderstood. Sry :)
On first glance I would agree. But on a closer look one recognizes that the Wulfen actually immitates a Wolf's head as closely as it gets, which can not be said for the Uziel II. I actually dig the look of that mech a lot. :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 30 May 2013, 15:53:26
I am already happy if those arm weapons are not LB-X 2 again...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 May 2013, 16:03:30
What if they're rac2's w/ AES's in the arms? :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 30 May 2013, 16:30:23
Yeah, let's make that HVAC/2s. That would be ultimate suckage. :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 31 May 2013, 13:34:21
I'll just stick with the 8S to be honest  ;D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013, 14:07:10
Is that one you designed?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 31 May 2013, 14:21:34
No, the jumper.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 01 June 2013, 00:42:27
No, MadDogMaddux designed the 8S Uziel (I wish I could take credit for it, but no!) I'm responsible for the 4F Blitzkrieg  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 01 June 2013, 01:38:26
Yeah, that one's fun, too.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 June 2013, 08:26:34
The 4F blitz is indeed fun. Nice one.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Southern Coyote on 02 June 2013, 10:30:08
Well, I'm about all Clanned out for the moment.

So, I'm shifting focus back to the I.S.  I need someone for my Donegals to fight.  Any time period is fine, but I tend to try to keep things around the Clan Invasion through the end of the FCCW.  I've got some mechs that come after that, but I lost interest in the Jihad and 3085 and the DA isn't looking all too appealing. 

Any suggestions about who I can launch these guys against?  I'd like atleast a company's worth of mechs to go with them. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 June 2013, 10:47:17
Well, I'm about all Clanned out for the moment.

So, I'm shifting focus back to the I.S.  I need someone for my Donegals to fight.  Any time period is fine, but I tend to try to keep things around the Clan Invasion through the end of the FCCW.  I've got some mechs that come after that, but I lost interest in the Jihad and 3085 and the DA isn't looking all too appealing. 

Any suggestions about who I can launch these guys against?  I'd like atleast a company's worth of mechs to go with them.

  welcome back to the IS. I'm in he same boat you are. I still love the clans but right now i'm into the LC's and my ROMANS IN SPAAAAACE!!! You could always hit the Dracs or Mariks. They're both fun to punish for their insolence.

 What kind of company are you looking to use against them? I have 3 distinct types of Lyran formations. My  6th Donegal guards are my "Wall of Steel" . It's where I've thrown all my slow heavies and assaults, and my slow artillery and tanks. My Lyran Guards unit is my fast style Lyran RCT with cav mechs, hovers and fast infantry/BA carriers. Jager unit is where i throw all the older 3025 type mechs and militia type stuff.\

 I like ot be prepared for anything.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Wolflord on 02 June 2013, 10:53:25
Well, I'm about all Clanned out for the moment.

So, I'm shifting focus back to the I.S.  I need someone for my Donegals to fight.  Any time period is fine, but I tend to try to keep things around the Clan Invasion through the end of the FCCW.  I've got some mechs that come after that, but I lost interest in the Jihad and 3085 and the DA isn't looking all too appealing. 

Any suggestions about who I can launch these guys against?  I'd like atleast a company's worth of mechs to go with them.

How about

1) objective raid across the Marik Border - Silver Hawks maybe?
2) suppressing some rebellious/corrupt mercenaries who are breaching their contract terms.
3) wargames with Comstar
4) wargames with Davion units in LC Argyle Lancers perhaps?
5) putting down uppity minor nobles and their retinues
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Southern Coyote on 02 June 2013, 11:12:47
  welcome back to the IS. I'm in he same boat you are. I still love the clans but right now i'm into the LC's and my ROMANS IN SPAAAAACE!!! You could always hit the Dracs or Mariks. They're both fun to punish for their insolence.

 What kind of company are you looking to use against them? I have 3 distinct types of Lyran formations. My  6th Donegal guards are my "Wall of Steel" . It's where I've thrown all my slow heavies and assaults, and my slow artillery and tanks. My Lyran Guards unit is my fast style Lyran RCT with cav mechs, hovers and fast infantry/BA carriers. Jager unit is where i throw all the older 3025 type mechs and militia type stuff.\

 I like ot be prepared for anything.
I'm considering Marik honestly.  They are the only major house I haven't built a force for and they would fit perfectly on the Steiner border.

I've got two companies of Steiner mechs (mostly wall of steel.  I've got two lances of 100 tonners), with some tanks, infantry and BA thrown in. 

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 June 2013, 12:20:31
When in doubt, beating up Mariks is always fun.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 02 June 2013, 12:41:18
When in doubt, beating up Mariks is always fun.

Until they strike back, such as in the Operation Broken Fist.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 June 2013, 13:29:16
Eh, 400 years of fighting and since the SL break up( with the exception of the FedCom era ) few planets changed hands back and forth. I still say punish the Mariks for their insolence.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 02 June 2013, 13:55:19
You can try but i don't think you're in any condition to at the moment, now me I think we can move the border back to the region of Bolan  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 June 2013, 16:37:18
 
You can try but i don't think you're in any condition to at the moment, now me I think we can move the border back to the region of Bolan  O0

 He's talking clan invasion era... I think we could manage.  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 02 June 2013, 16:38:41

 He's talking clan invasion era... I think we could manage.  O0

That's what i get for not paying attention  :-[
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 June 2013, 16:40:04
That's what i get for not paying attention  :-[

 It's all good. love the new avatar !
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 02 June 2013, 16:42:24
It's all good. love the new avatar !

Thanks Col, Martian found it for me, on a bit of a FWL kick at the moment.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 02 June 2013, 16:46:11
You can try but i don't think you're in any condition to at the moment, now me I think we can move the border back to the region of Bolan  O0

Eh Rainbow, now I begin to understand the meaning of your nickname... You change your colors just as easily, it seems... :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 02 June 2013, 16:49:20
Eh Rainbow, now I begin to understand the meaning of your nickname... You change your colors just as easily, it seems... :P

Took the Rainbow name after playing as the opforce for a mate when we were getting into battletech and playing the Snord's Irregulars and black widow scenario books, there's a  Marik Milita Company and ELH Company in each called Rainbow Company and I did well with them.

Although it does fit as you say.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 02 June 2013, 16:50:27
Although it does fit as you say.

;)

Though you seem to wear the wrong color of the rainbow today, at least in my book. :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 June 2013, 16:51:47
Thanks Col, Martian found it for me, on a bit of a FWL kick at the moment.

 I don't blame you. They have some fun toys. I'm not really into the Greek warring states thing but there is some good fluff there.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 02 June 2013, 18:36:40
My other IS force is post-Jihad Iron Guard... use WoB salvage/tech defending a small region of space.  Fun times.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 June 2013, 20:22:46
Am I the only one who looked at Rainbow 6's avatar and said "Galvatron?"
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 03 June 2013, 13:04:27
Am I the only one who looked at Rainbow 6's avatar and said "Galvatron?"

I have no idea what that is as I am old  :'(
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 03 June 2013, 13:35:10
So, I'm shifting focus back to the I.S.  I need someone for my Donegals to fight.  Any time period is fine, but I tend to try to keep things around the Clan Invasion through the end of the FCCW.  I've got some mechs that come after that, but I lost interest in the Jihad and 3085 and the DA isn't looking all too appealing. 

Any suggestions about who I can launch these guys against?  I'd like atleast a company's worth of mechs to go with them.

What about (deeper) Periphery? Hunting down some hightech bastards menacing the lyran border? Going deeper into the unknown you might encounter something like the Green Ghosts grey brothers.
Gives you quite the variety of different mechs of different eras. From Star League to WoB everything is possible.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 03 June 2013, 14:40:56
I have no idea what that is as I am old  :'(

Here's a hint (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKqzghNW49M).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 03 June 2013, 15:09:12
Ah, i see i'd stopped watching Transformers by that point.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 13:26:09
I just thought about the Atlas II D2s HAG 30 for a second... and you know what?
Of all the things the Lyran Commonwealth should have Clan spec production facilities in 3145 (next to XL engines), it really should be HAGs.
Why?

1) The LC is the primary Gauss user BY FAR and as it happens also inventor of the HGR and iHGR

2) Given the heavy amount of HAGs the Jade Turkeys and Hell's Horses use in their designs since the Jihad, there should have been tons of salvage for re-engineering available to the LC, cause guess who is situated right next to those two Clans...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Moonsword on 05 June 2013, 16:16:11
That's the Atlas III, not the Atlas II.  The Atlas II is from TRO3075 and dates back to just before the Amaris Civil War.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 16:19:07
Meh... brain fart or keyboard hickup. Blame whatever you want, but I was of course talking about the Atlas III ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 16:22:31
Another pro for domestically built HAGs would also be Pandora btw, if you think about it (Onager).
We still don't know HOW the LC reconquered Pandora, but I hope TPTB allowed the LC to occupy the Clan grad facilities of Red Devil Industries and Quikscell intact, meaning they would have a lot of Clan spec components coming from Pandora anyways (at least until disaster struck in the incarnation of Melissa II).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Moonsword on 05 June 2013, 16:23:19
Meh... brain fart or keyboard hickup. Blame whatever you want, but I was of course talking about the Atlas III ;)

I figured as much, I was just trying to keep things clear for the audience at home.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 16:24:01
Fair point.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 June 2013, 19:27:19
That's not an atlas II, it's a giant Darth Vader without his helmet.

 I'm not a big fan of the Atlas. Weired being I'm so Lyran. I do like rhe K2 and K3 though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 05 June 2013, 19:57:56
I'm not a big fan of the Atlas. Weired being I'm so Lyran. I do like rhe K2 and K3 though.

I'm a huge fan of the K2 and K3. Being a DA player before a CBT player that design was my intro to the atlas O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 June 2013, 21:09:28
I've found that both the S2 and S3 variants are quite effective, though the Atlas really isn't my automatic go to choice when I want a 100 tonner.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on 05 June 2013, 21:17:47
I've found that both the S2 and S3 variants are quite effective, though the Atlas really isn't my automatic go to choice when I want a 100 tonner.

Mine's a Diashi, but that's more out of that being my personal mech in a campaign than from the pragmatic pov of it being an amazing mech in general. And this is staying on topic sense that campaign has me commanding a company of the Alarion Jaegers with the Diashi being a mech we salvaged.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 06 June 2013, 02:20:30
I've found that both the S2 and S3 variants are quite effective, though the Atlas really isn't my automatic go to choice when I want a 100 tonner.

I'm going to guess 'Thunder Hawk?'
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 03:38:17
Thunder Hawk modified with ECM and C³ slave...  }:)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 June 2013, 08:05:58
Looks lime we got some CSO love today.

 http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6636
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 06 June 2013, 08:07:30
Looks lime we got some CSO love today.

 http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6636

I always want to think the Blitzkrieg looks like it has a Heli-pad on it.....I know it doesn't, but...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 09:08:13
Now that you mention it... I can totally see that. Oo

btw, Savage Coyote's paintjobs for the 7th Donegal are really top notch and beyond any doubt. Kudos.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 06 June 2013, 09:39:14
I always want to think the Blitzkrieg looks like it has a Heli-pad on it.....I know it doesn't, but...

You did not really think a lyran MechWarrior would deign it appropriate for his station and dignity to use a mundane (and probably dirty) rope ladder to mount his Mech? Ts ts ts.
Ich bin schrecklich entäuscht von Ihnen, StCptMara.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 June 2013, 10:21:18
SC does the best Donegal Guards. The bkue/gray he uses is beautiful as is the amazing battle damage... /fanboy off.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 07 June 2013, 17:51:22
Thanks guys!  There's more coming where those came from (like, 14 more at the moment.)  Can't show them off just yet, but they are in the pipeline :)

I do have a Caesar I just finished up; he's not going on CSO or any offical product, so I guess I can photo and post him heh.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 07 June 2013, 19:02:02
What are the other 13 mechs, if I may ask?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 07 June 2013, 20:10:20
Hmm... I typed most of them out, but I think I should probably not.  I can say I have that Caesar that needs photography and an Uziel that has been photoed and uploaded to away quality control on CSO.  The others I have to keep hush hush, but 95% of them can be guess by any good Clan Invasion-era Steiner player  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 08 June 2013, 05:56:33
Hmm... I typed most of them out, but I think I should probably not.  I can say I have that Caesar that needs photography and an Uziel that has been photoed and uploaded to away quality control on CSO.  The others I have to keep hush hush, but 95% of them can be guess by any good Clan Invasion-era Steiner player  :D

I'll give it a shot:

I'll guess ten (and no, I don't expect you to answer how well I guessed if this is a hush-hush project)

Zeus, Atlas, Commando, Stalker, Griffin, Marauder, Phoenix Hawk, Awesome, Hatchetman, and Warhammer.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Wolflord on 08 June 2013, 06:01:40
How about an Archer and a Banshee?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 08 June 2013, 06:50:21
How about an Archer and a Banshee?

Those would be good candidates too!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 08 June 2013, 07:08:05
I'll give it a shot:

I'll guess ten (and no, I don't expect you to answer how well I guessed if this is a hush-hush project)

Zeus, Atlas, Commando, Stalker, Griffin, Marauder, Phoenix Hawk, Awesome, Hatchetman, and Warhammer.

I'd like to add Fafnir, Battlemaster, Devastator, Nightstar and Nightsky.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 June 2013, 10:51:33
I would say posibly ax man 2N, bushwacker, centurion, wolfhound... some of the ones in the pipeline are going to be beautiful.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 08 June 2013, 10:54:13
The company's for a CGL product, so there's no unseens unfortunately, but ya'll have nailed several down!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 June 2013, 10:57:37
I would love to see an unseen Mad in 6th DG colors....
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 08 June 2013, 13:28:27
The company's for a CGL product, so there's no unseens unfortunately, but ya'll have nailed several down!

Is it this company?
bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,15643.msg359676.html#msg359676

EDIT: Never mind, the company you are currently talking about is from the clan invasion.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 08 June 2013, 14:14:53
Sorry, can't click on the link.... broken or something!

Is it my lightning company I had planned for post-Jihad ops?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 08 June 2013, 14:59:19
Sorry, can't click on the link.... broken or something!

Is it my lightning company I had planned for post-Jihad ops?

Maybe? It was your remnant 6th that was folded into the 7th DG  in the 3085ish era.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 08 June 2013, 16:40:50
Figured out how to get to that post... no, my "new" company that I have all but one of the miniatures for looks like this:

DFN-3T Defiance   1981
FLC-8R Falconer   2231
UZL-8S Uziel      1393
FS9-O Firestarter

Black Lanner
BTZ-3F Blitzkrieg    1273
BTZ-4F Blitzkrieg    1740
STO-6S Stilleto      1171

NGS-6T Nightsky   1430
SCB-9T Scarabus   926
WLF-2 Wolfhound    1061
TLN-6W Talon      1341

It was born out of research from that thread.  I'll probably have an alternate for the Black Lanner, though the 6th had some clantech in the company that remained after the FCCW/Falcon attacks in 3067.  I have five of them painted and am hoping IWM does the 6S Stilleto "soon" so I can complete the company in miniature form.  Cleaning up to sell the house isn't helping though  :-\
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 June 2013, 16:52:36
Fun company.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 08 June 2013, 17:12:00
Anybody said "Blitzkrieg"? (Not the mech, but play style :P)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 08 June 2013, 17:33:42
Anybody said "Blitzkrieg"? (Not the mech, but play style :P)

My prefered play style :)

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Daishi411 on 08 June 2013, 18:41:01
Anybody said "Blitzkrieg"? (Not the mech, but play style :P)

the best way to play!!!!!!!  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 08 June 2013, 21:23:28
"Battlemech Vor!"   ;)  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 08 June 2013, 21:59:23
Everything in that direction must die!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 June 2013, 22:46:14
The pointy end goes in the other guy?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 09 June 2013, 00:08:28
Yes, pointy side towards enemy is very important.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 09 June 2013, 00:10:51
Yes, pointy side towards enemy is very important.

That almost makes me wish I was good enough at really fine details to paint a Fafnir and have on the front of
it "This side towards enemy"
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 09 June 2013, 00:26:48
It would probably look good just slapped on...like graffiti.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 09 June 2013, 04:04:15
That almost makes me wish I was good enough at really fine details to paint a Fafnir and have on the front of
it "This side towards enemy"


That almost makes me wish I was good enough at really fine details to paint a Berserker C3 and have on the axe of
it "Your cockpit, here."

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 10 June 2013, 15:51:24
Or a cataphract with a blown out windshield and write on it humpty... oh, wait...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 10 June 2013, 21:07:16
If any of you come to Origins this week, I'll see you there!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 June 2013, 08:14:10
Wish i could go Top. Will there be a lot of LC tomfoolery there?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 04 July 2013, 12:35:24
figured I'd resurrect this one with TRO Lyran coming at some point in the near future.

Looking foward to some of it and then we'll see how we've stacked up :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Wolflord on 04 July 2013, 12:42:45
Looking forward to see what if anything the Exiles get in the Lyran TRO3145 and how far their technology has spread to the rest of Lyran industry.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 July 2013, 14:14:42
The lyran commonwealth have fans? I thought it was the faction people played until they found their faction.

I love rping inept social generals. Its my go to character if clan shark fox is out of the question.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Fenris on 05 July 2013, 08:26:36
The lyran commonwealth have fans? I thought it was the faction people played until they found their faction.

This may not be the best place for a "jest" (?) like that. Somebody might actually take offense.


Anywho... can't wait for the release of our TRO. Anybody else hoping for an Eisensturm II?
Think it's about time after all the Drac and FWL Eisensturm wannabes for the actual king of the IS ASF field to put on new garments.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 July 2013, 11:03:29
Very well put on all accounts Fenris. Thank you for moving the discussion over here also SC.  O0

 This is really the only 3145 tro I'm interested in. As far as mechs go I'd like to see an upgraded commando, wolfhound, stealth, scarabus, nightsky, bushwacker... you get my point ... all of them upgraded.

 Also, I've said this before and I'll say it again. Just because some ine is a social general doesn't mean they're inept. General Hengist (retired ) was a social general and lost few fights.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Daishi411 on 05 July 2013, 11:55:37
I wonder if the DA cyclops will be in the TRO?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 July 2013, 15:19:20
I've always like the cyclops. Not for the loadout or because it's a cool looking mjni( since it isn't ) but because of the fluff. My merc units always got one as soon as we could. I don't know anything about the DA one but if it's fun as the original and serves the same purpose then I will like it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 05 July 2013, 15:31:50
For some reason i'd assumed the Cyclops would be a RotS design.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Daishi411 on 05 July 2013, 15:40:58
I've always like the cyclops. Not for the loadout or because it's a cool looking mjni( since it isn't ) but because of the fluff. My merc units always got one as soon as we could. I don't know anything about the DA one but if it's fun as the original and serves the same purpose then I will like it.

I'm the exact same way! I tend to run one in any big unit because a lot of the configs are a big bag of laughs. Then again there are some really decent variants as well. I just thought the DA versions looked cool in the clix game.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 06 July 2013, 10:27:11
Also, I've said this before and I'll say it again. Just because some ine is a social general doesn't mean they're inept. General Hengist (retired ) was a social general and lost few fights.

One is a social general if they get their promotions due to politics and social skills instead of their tactical or strategic abilities, so I guess it would depend on what you're looking for.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 July 2013, 11:08:11
That is the accepted thought on them. Still doesn't mean they can't be a good tactician ( and yes, I used the double negative on purpose ).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 06 July 2013, 20:11:23
One thing I will say:

If someone managed to have both the ubiquitous noble uncle AND strategic/command ability, he would truly be able to go far. Doubly so if he had an amazing moustache (because that always helps  O0).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 July 2013, 20:22:58
'Course, the amazing mustache is a must! And a monocle ... must have a monocle.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 07 July 2013, 20:35:59
I've always like the cyclops. Not for the loadout or because it's a cool looking mjni( since it isn't ) but because of the fluff. My merc units always got one as soon as we could. I don't know anything about the DA one but if it's fun as the original and serves the same purpose then I will like it.

For some reason that I can't put my finger on, the Cyclops always struck me as one of the most military looking Mechs.  I have a certain fondness for the machine, as I got into Battletech via the card game and it was one of the first assault Mechs that I got.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 July 2013, 21:57:37
Yea, cyclops did less damage than any clan light in the card game... loved it but would have liked more parity.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 07 July 2013, 22:58:11
It did more damage than the Koshi B...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 July 2013, 23:17:55
 Still... an IS assault barely did more than a clan light.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 07 July 2013, 23:27:56
Well, to be fair, the Cyclops was a pretty weak assault mech.  And the damage curve in the CCG was pretty harsh on IS mechs to begin with.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 July 2013, 23:38:22
It sure was.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Fenris on 08 July 2013, 07:08:10
360/380 SFEs never really made much sense.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 July 2013, 08:02:21
plenty of 80 tonners moving at 4/6 to warrant the 360
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Fenris on 08 July 2013, 08:45:25
That's a 320. That 80 ton 4/6 has more tons available than a 4/6 90 tons mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 July 2013, 16:54:53
Ugh... you're correct. That would be a grand dragon engine the 360...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 30 July 2013, 10:07:02
So my brother just moved, and one of the streets that he can turn onto to get to his house is Steiner Street in Weatherford, Oklahoma.  Had him snap a picture and send it to me...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 July 2013, 10:46:50
Nice! I have a buddy with Steiner as a first name. Still can't get him to play...

 So what's every ones favorite part of our new tro? I love the new bushwacker omni!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 30 July 2013, 10:53:10
Gauntlet, Zeus X4, Gotterwhatever, and all the BA.... and the Viking IIc!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 30 July 2013, 11:00:00
So what's every ones favorite part of our new tro? I love the new bushwacker omni!

I agree there, Hengist. The 'whacker always looked like it should have been an omni to begin with.
I need to sit down, though, and see if I can make the classic Bushwhacker as a configuration on the
Gauntlet.

The Zeus X, BTW? I am sorry, but putting an IS XXL Engine on something that big? What were they
thinking?!?! (Interestingly, though..they did do something I have done after giving a Zeus a Light Engine
in the past: the LGR, LRM 20 version...I like that weapons loadout..)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 July 2013, 11:04:39
Eh, its a command mech. Think about it in those terms. Not really my favorite zeus but i can work with it.

 SC i agree with the BA. They are so nice!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 30 July 2013, 11:11:58
Yup, the Zeus X4 should never be any closer than medium range on it's guns unless the force is overrunning the bad guys.  I've played several MM games against the bot, with them having at least 1k more bv, and haven't lost the unit yet.  And in that setting, i'm not getting the +2 for the command consul, so it's a bit of a handicap.  That said, it's done alright as long as you don't go barreling into short ranges.  People have to learn to move away from "XXL's terrible!" mindset.  It is what it is and you plan your tactics accordingly.  I like the speed boost for the X4 over say the DC series Zeus from 3050, though that one is a bit cheaper and IIRC, using a real gauss rifle  ;D

Of course, i've always professed my love of the Zeus X3 and will continue to do so.  There the XXL and composite structure aren't that big a deal as you won't get hit as often, and those things that can, you can take a few hits before it's an issue.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Fenris on 30 July 2013, 12:00:46
Nice! I have a buddy with Steiner as a first name. Still can't get him to play...

 So what's every ones favorite part of our new tro? I love the new bushwacker omni!

Fenrir II (even though I prefer the Fenrir I's art by a lot), Chuchublabla, Swallow, Würger, Sternensturm. As for the mechs... the Götterdämmerung is ok, the Gauntlet great as well as the Viking IIC. As for the rest... yeah, let's not talk about the rest maybe... :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 July 2013, 12:45:34
What's the 7/11 50 tonner with the pop guns? I'm kind of squinting at that one. I just really got a cursory glance. I haven't had time to reallu get into depth with them but i do like what i have seen so far.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Gray Jaguar on 31 July 2013, 08:26:32
I fell in love with the Gauntlet as well; I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was happy to see a Bushwacker Omni.  As for my personal favorite entry, I'd say it was actually the Sternensturm OmniFighter.  I've always wanted a smaller Omni to help fill in the gaps of the Morgenstern and Eisensturm.  Its good to have a streamlined aeroforce when working for the Commonwealth.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 31 July 2013, 08:44:04
I agree with the Gauntlet, it looks like a solid design plus the art is fantastic. The thing that took it was, for me, was the Sturnensturm. It seems like one of the most solid aerofighter designs to come out of the recent TROs imo.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 31 July 2013, 10:03:21
I must say that I find the HOGARTH!! connection to the King Crab amusing.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Fenris on 31 July 2013, 10:44:57
Yeah... and it furthers the believe that the Hogarths only have comdedic uses. Building more of one of the weakest 100 ton mechs in recent Steiner history? Great. The only good thing about it is that it is much cheaper to produce than the other abomination during the Republic/DA era, the AS7-K2/K3 Atlas.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 31 July 2013, 11:10:28
I must say that I find the HOGARTH!! connection to the King Crab amusing.

I was honestly hoping Hogarth would disappear with the end of the Jihad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 31 July 2013, 12:00:32
Thomas HOGARTH was a REAL MAN and REAL MEN have REAL KIDS.... :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Stormcrow on 31 July 2013, 12:04:21
Really? Reiner is Thomas's nephew, not his son.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 31 July 2013, 13:50:45
Doesn't matter. he was a fun character for like a month (probably less), then it just got annoying.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Death by Zeus on 31 July 2013, 13:52:50
Really? Reiner is Thomas's nephew, not his son.

 :o Stop trying to confuse us with facts man!  Thomas HOGARTH was a REAL MAN and REAL MEN have REAL KIDS!   ^-^ Just go with it  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 July 2013, 13:59:20
Doesn't matter. he was a fun character for like a month (probably less), then it just got annoying.
Good thing he's dead now.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 31 July 2013, 14:57:05
THKMAS HOGARTH!!! Is not dead. They downloaded his consciousness into an Atlas. Much like a venerable dreadnaught or the emperor upon the throne. That way it is easier for him to serve the commonwealth in the most dire of times.

 Real men have real sons... what about Hanse? It never happened for him...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 July 2013, 15:10:42
Are you risking Sun Tzu and Peter?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 31 July 2013, 15:15:30
Sunny boy is only a rumor and Peter... please. I'm an Adam apologist.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 31 July 2013, 15:20:26
Say what you want about Victor, he spearheaded the effort to demolish an entire clan.  Politically dim at first, ok.  But you can't cast doubt on his abilities as a soldier and coalition builder.


...I just defended Victor.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 31 July 2013, 15:41:12
Katy did way more for us than Vic ever did. If he really wanted to do something for us then he would have taken out the Jade Turkeys instead of use our manufacturing might and money to back his glory hounding.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 31 July 2013, 22:43:56
Really? Reiner is Thomas's nephew, not his son.

Oops....well....uh....yeah.

Guess I forgot to read that little important tidbit and just saw HOGARTH and assumed it was a spawn of his.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 31 July 2013, 23:11:29
Really? Reiner is Thomas's nephew, not his son.

AS FAR YOU KNOW!  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 31 July 2013, 23:33:19
Some day, the Hogarth meme is going to die.

I'm going to throw a party on that day.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 31 July 2013, 23:56:24
We all know that Hogarth is pretty much the Most Triumphant Example of the Negative Lyran Stereotype.  Who would you guys says is the Most Triumphant Example of a Good Lyran?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 01 August 2013, 01:02:15
I personally would go with Katrina Steiner the other one will forever be Katherine in my book. Katrina knew how to wage war for the good of her realm but preferred diplomacy instead. She knew when to do ethically risky moves in order to survive the machinations of her opponents like when she got the double for Melissa. She also seemed like a good single parent since the a for mentioned Melissa turned out pretty decent as well.

Plus, she was hot.  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: foxbat on 01 August 2013, 01:15:51
Archer Christifori. He's a well connected, wealthy and successfull businessman on the civilian side, and operationally and tactically savvy on the military one.  :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Øystein on 01 August 2013, 01:28:35
Oops....well....uh....yeah.

Guess I forgot to read that little important tidbit and just saw HOGARTH and assumed it was a spawn of his.

Thats's ok. The next HOGARTH you spot might be correct...

 O:-)

With regards,
Øystein
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 01 August 2013, 03:45:59
Katy did way more for us than Vic ever did. If he really wanted to do something for us then he would have taken out the Jade Turkeys instead of use our manufacturing might and money to back his glory hounding.
Really? Katy sowed the seeds for the Civil War first by bbreaking off the Lyran of the FC to form the Alliance and then by usurping the FedSuns. All she ever did for Lyrans was see that millions of them get killed, wounded or left homeless. As for Lyran manufacturing might and money, IIRC, the Dracs footed the lion's share of money, n=manufactory and troops to smash the Jaguars. It was Katy's newfound lack of political acumen that got the war shifted to the Jags, instead of the hated Falcons
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 01 August 2013, 08:04:23
Katy did way more for us than Vic ever did. If he really wanted to do something for us then he would have taken out the Jade Turkeys instead of use our manufacturing might and money to back his glory hounding.

I think when it comes to being a son of Hanse, Victor beats Katy thoroughly.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 01 August 2013, 08:10:34
We all know that Hogarth is pretty much the Most Triumphant Example of the Negative Lyran Stereotype.  Who would you guys says is the Most Triumphant Example of a Good Lyran?

That's easy.  Alistair Marsden.

Trendsetter.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 01 August 2013, 08:43:38
...I just defended Victor.
We cannot forgive you. First you must forgive yourself.

Katy did way more for us than Vic ever did. If he really wanted to do something for us then he would have taken out the Jade Turkeys instead of use our manufacturing might and money to back his glory hounding.
To be fair attacking anyone else but their Falcon arch enemies seems to be evolving into a lyran tradition. Melissa II did it again.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 01 August 2013, 08:46:31
We cannot forgive you. First you must forgive yourself.
To be fair attacking anyone else but their Falcon arch enemies seems to be evolving into a lyran tradition. Melissa II did it again.

Meh, those Falcons will be there to attack later.   ;D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 01 August 2013, 08:52:01
Trillian will probably go after the Rim Collection. The impeding Rim Collection invasion IS a valid concern, after all!

"And I bet those ex-Circinus guys are up to no good as well!"
"They are all dead, Archon."
"See? Perfect cover story for a military build-up."
*sigh* "Yes, Archon."
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 01 August 2013, 08:59:55
Good thing he's dead now.

I know (I read the TRO), but for some reason we can't escape him and his legacy continues to live on.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 01 August 2013, 09:02:23
We cannot forgive you. First you must forgive yourself.

It isn't very hard when he is compared to Hanse.  Dare I say, Victor's star twinkles that much more.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 01 August 2013, 10:36:29
I know (I read the TRO), but for some reason we can't escape him and his legacy continues to live on.
Well, we will be phasing out the social generals from the Lyran armed forces soon, but until then they are a burden the Lyrans must shoulder.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Stormcrow on 01 August 2013, 10:41:24
Trillian will probably go after the Rim Collection. The impeding Rim Collection invasion IS a valid concern, after all!

"And I bet those ex-Circinus guys are up to no good as well!"
"They are all dead, Archon."
"See? Perfect cover story for a military build-up."
*sigh* "Yes, Archon."

Trillian is not that stupid, she just lacks an abundance of willpower
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 01 August 2013, 10:43:31
Did they ever catch on that her adviser was a SAFE plant?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 01 August 2013, 11:05:41
Did they ever catch on that her adviser was a SAFE plant?
I hope it was actually a cactus.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 01 August 2013, 11:18:13
We all know that Hogarth is pretty much the Most Triumphant Example of the Negative Lyran Stereotype.  Who would you guys says is the Most Triumphant Example of a Good Lyran?

Alessandro Steiner.  At least he was willing to take risks for the sake of the realm.  Things go a little against plan and people are soo ungrateful.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 August 2013, 12:15:59
Really? Katy sowed the seeds for the Civil War first by bbreaking off the Lyran of the FC to form the Alliance and then by usurping the FedSuns. All she ever did for Lyrans was see that millions of them get killed, wounded or left homeless. As for Lyran manufacturing might and money, IIRC, the Dracs footed the lion's share of money, n=manufactory and troops to smash the Jaguars. It was Katy's newfound lack of political acumen that got the war shifted to the Jags, instead of the hated Falcons

 Katy was defending her ancestral homeland from the attacks of a foreign nation. We defended our selves from a foreign invader. Millions gave their lives to see that we could have a free Commonwealth, not a part of an alliance that was no healthy for our nation.
 The Fed Suns part of the alliance used our manufacturing might and money to fund their units.

Well, we will be phasing out the social generals from the Lyran armed forces soon, but until then they are a burden the Lyrans must shoulder.

 I hope not. I would have to be just another fed suns clone like we were for so long. Why does every one think that social generals have to be incompetent nincompoops? Hogarth must have done something right to be promoted during the Jihad. Maybe in the future the Social Generals will be soldiers that went to the nagelring and graduated with honors. Sure, they are interested in parties and social functions but also know how to command troops. In the future the greatest generals in the Lyran army will be Social generals because they are a gentleman soldier.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 01 August 2013, 12:36:17
Did they ever catch on that her adviser was a SAFE plant?

Nope, he defected without being caught.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 01 August 2013, 12:47:27
A SAFE plan actually working out...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 01 August 2013, 12:48:06
Katy was defending her ancestral homeland from the attacks of a foreign nation. We defended our selves from a foreign invader. Millions gave their lives to see that we could have a free Commonwealth, not a part of an alliance that was no healthy for our nation.
 The Fed Suns part of the alliance used our manufacturing might and money to fund their units.

And we were getting a major improvement to our military structure out of the deal.  Which she promptly undid when she went back to promoting people based on their political connections rather than any actual abilities on their part.  She also gutted our most vital border of troops, causing the loss of more worlds to the Falcons, and the second she'd tricked control of the Suns half of the FedCom away from her younger sister she abandoned Tharkad like last year's style and more or less ignored that half of the realm.  So much for her vaunted Steinerness.

Quote
I hope not. I would have to be just another fed suns clone like we were for so long. Why does every one think that social generals have to be incompetent nincompoops? Hogarth must have done something right to be promoted during the Jihad. Maybe in the future the Social Generals will be soldiers that went to the nagelring and graduated with honors. Sure, they are interested in parties and social functions but also know how to command troops. In the future the greatest generals in the Lyran army will be Social generals because they are a gentleman soldier.

Because it's been very explicitly stated that Hogarth was a complete idiot who survived only by being lucky or stealing credit from other people who actually did the hard work and got promoted only because of the massive casualties among Lyran officers during the Jihad.  There was a media drive to make him look like a big war hero for morale reasons, but he was nothing more than an incompetent buffoon who shouldn't have been let within 20 kilometers of actual command.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 01 August 2013, 12:58:16
And we were getting a major improvement to our military structure out of the deal.  Which she promptly undid when she went back to promoting people based on their political connections rather than any actual abilities on their part.  She also gutted our most vital border of troops, causing the loss of more worlds to the Falcons, and the second she'd tricked control of the Suns half of the FedCom away from her younger sister she abandoned Tharkad like last year's style and more or less ignored that half of the realm.  So much for her vaunted Steinerness.

She just used the Lyran Alliance's resentment of the FedSuns to rise to power.  She was perfectly happy to go after and rule from New Avalon.  She shouldn't be confused with actual Lyran nationalists like Nondi and Adam Steiner.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 01 August 2013, 12:58:53

 I hope not. I would have to be just another fed suns clone like we were for so long. Why does every one think that social generals have to be incompetent nincompoops?
Why are soldiers promoted soley for their connections measuring up poorly to soldiers promoted for their ability to do their job? I should think the answer is self evident, unless you consider the exception to be the rule.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 01 August 2013, 13:00:14
One of them has to succeed with some ability for the concept to continue.  The Entire LCAF can't be held together by NCOs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 August 2013, 13:06:58
I believe Melissa was the one that designed the RCT's,  not Hanse as every wants to say. So the major structural advances were a Lyran idea.

Katy brought back the Lyran to the LA. She made new units and bolstered nationalism. 

 We still had RCT's when she was archon so she did that right and what political leader doesn't promote friends and cronies?


 As far as Hogarth goes. Either way, he was promoted and did a good job. His campaigns were successful.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 01 August 2013, 13:13:37
I believe Melissa was the one that designed the RCT's,  not Hanse as every wants to say. So the major structural advances were a Lyran idea.

Melissa Davion.  Different person.

Quote
Katy brought back the Lyran to the LA. She made new units and bolstered nationalism. 

Yes, but not because she was a patriot.  Those actions were taken to put her into power and shore up resentment aganst the FedCom in preperation for the takeover.

Quote
We still had RCT's when she was archon so she did that right and what political leader doesn't promote friends and cronies?

The difference is that Katherine promoted people like Simon Gallagher well past the point of their abilities.  He was a fantastic logistics officer who wanted to be head of the AFFC, even though he had no business.  In general, people who were politically aligned with Katherine were promoted over people who were better suited but politically unreliable.


Quote
As far as Hogarth goes. Either way, he was promoted and did a good job. His campaigns were successful.

He really was just lucky.  He didn't even have resistance at Athens.  The story is true.  He was dug up in light of the defense of DI as a PR move to bolster the rock bottom morale of the LAAF.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 August 2013, 13:17:15
Why are soldiers promoted soley for their connections measuring up poorly to soldiers promoted for their ability to do their job? I should think the answer is self evident, unless you consider the exception to be the rule.

 As you well know, people are always promoted past their ability. Consider the Peter principle. As you know A Social General, in the begining, were people not promoted to the job but wealthy people who thought that wearing a uniform and had lots of fancy medals was a fashion statement. Later on they got themselves actually into the military ranks but weren't really commanders of anything.
 Later on they actually became commanders but that didn't take away the fact that some had to be competent.

 Historically the landed gentry were good commanders because they were accustomed to
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 01 August 2013, 13:17:29
Hogarth's successes were due entirely to other people.  Mostly the Lyran media corp that spun his actions until they resembled successes rather than idiotic failures.

And promoting someone based on connections and cronyism is absolutely the worst possible way to run an organization, especially a military.  You want people who know what they're doing in charge, not people who know how to kiss ass in charge.  Kitty never understood that and it led to horrible mismanagement of numerous situations that could have been easily resolved if someone who hadn't gotten their place via the good old boy network had been the leader.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 01 August 2013, 13:24:51
You have at least 3 things at work:

1.  Katherine cashing out officers that held Pro-Victor or Pro-FedCom sympathies, including many FedSun nationals.

2. The existing tide of resentment within the LAAF about Davion reforms.

3. The existing social circles within the LAAF without Social Generals.  A big thing for Lyrans is where you went to school.  A part of where you went to school is who your family knew to get you into school.  So when you show up at a military ball, wearing your school rag you can instantly pick out other people that went The Nagelring, Sanglamore or wherever you went and start talking.  When a promotion comes up the first candidates are other alumni from your school.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 August 2013, 13:30:13
My phone is dieing snd messing up.

 To finish what I was saying about the Landed Gentry... they are good leaders because they know how to lead people.  They know how to put the right person in the rigjt job for things to work. They don't really need to know more than how to promote people for how good they are. If you have good underlings all you have to do is say i want that town taken. They colonels, and captains devise the plan and the lt's and nco's make sure it's carried out.

 Katy may have promoted cronies but so do every one else in universe. She's no different than a Kurita, Marik or any other leader. She performed a great coup, and it worked for some time. Who knows how great the realm would have become is her brother would have just stayed doing what he was good at( playing toy soldier) instead of making war against his own peoples. Who knows how how great she would have become if she had cemented power.
 
 If you folks like the way it was run when it was taken over by the fed rats then be a fed rat fan. I'm a Steiner fan.

 Phones dieing. I'll have to finish replying on this absolutly fun discussion when it's charged.  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 01 August 2013, 13:35:16
Actually, Kitty's contemporaries were all a lot better about promoting people based on merit rather than connections.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 01 August 2013, 15:23:11
I hope not. I would have to be just another fed suns clone like we were for so long. Why does every one think that social generals have to be incompetent nincompoops? Hogarth must have done something right to be promoted during the Jihad. Maybe in the future the Social Generals will be soldiers that went to the nagelring and graduated with honors. Sure, they are interested in parties and social functions but also know how to command troops. In the future the greatest generals in the Lyran army will be Social generals because they are a gentleman soldier.

I like the idea of the social general it adds character to the faction. My problem is not with social generals as a whole but with Hogarth who was so over the top stupid and awful I cringed every time I read his name on a page.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 August 2013, 15:52:04
Actually, Kitty's contemporaries were all a lot better about promoting people based on merit rather than connections.

 And the writers wrote mostly about the bad things she did and didn't promote rhe good. Same with her contemporaries. They were written to look good and the bad stuff they did wasn't mentioned as much.

 Hiw many oeople hated the Dracs until that series where Hohiro was the main character, or the ghost regiments and the goons? People started having a soft spot for formerly hated factions or people, seeing them jn a new light.
 If there was a novel written about the LA in that time by some one pro-Lyran it would have painted what she did in a whole different light.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 01 August 2013, 16:04:29
Kathrine's actions objectively hurt the military strength of the Lyran Commonwealth.  No amount of hand wringing, apologism, or fact denying is going to change that.  There wasn't a novel portraying her actions in a positive light because there wasn't a positive side to them.

Under her rule, the Commonwealth was invaded by the Falcons twice and the only reason they were repulsed was because of Victor.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 01 August 2013, 16:08:32
Not sure what Katherine did that was good really.  Keeping Nodie Steiner around.  Bad.  Uh, the dumb general that got head hunted in Operation Audacity.  Yeah, she was a keeper.  Or the lady that went to the Clan Homeworld... remember her being a bet dense even with an elite unit behind her (or is it the same lady in Audacity and Lyran contengent that went with Vic to the home worlds?) 

Anyway... Katherine just reset all of the gains that her grandmother, mother, and father had made to reshape their realm into a 31st century fighting force and not just a "ugh smash with assault 'mechs and... wait, surrounded, flanked, and cut off!  Crap!"  Sure there are bright spots here and there, but when you have to continually rebuild your military with your industrial might because your top dudes are dumb as a brick in the art of war, you have a problem. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 August 2013, 16:31:01
No time to reply to both if your excellent points. I'm still at work and it's taking too much time.

 Shocka... i agree in part.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 01 August 2013, 16:44:11
I will say the good that Katherine did do was to revitalize the Lyran portion of the FedCom and really flex its industrial muscle.  Of course I also feel the "downtrodden" mindset of the "common" Lyran was also due to her and other subversive groups propaganda efforts, but being the skilled politician she was, she took advantage and broke up the FedCom.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 01 August 2013, 18:23:20
I hope it was actually a cactus.

Please tell me the SAFE Plant's name was Chuck.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 01 August 2013, 19:36:32
Anyway... Katherine just reset all of the gains that her grandmother, mother, and father had made to reshape their realm into a 31st century fighting force and not just a "ugh smash with assault 'mechs and... wait, surrounded, flanked, and cut off!  Crap!"  Sure there are bright spots here and there, but when you have to continually rebuild your military with your industrial might because your top dudes are dumb as a brick in the art of war, you have a problem.

Now that you mention it, I get the impression the post civil war LAAF is what the LCAF would have looked like if it had been allowed to continue without Katrina's reforms.  It just accomplished this state in hyper pace thanks to the over the top nationalism used by Katherine to get to the Archonship.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 01 August 2013, 20:58:22
If there was a novel written about the LA in that time by some one pro-Lyran it would have painted what she did in a whole different light.

No, it would have resulted in the author being fired and the book rewritten. Writing is done in concert under the aegis of the line developer, not by rogue authors. Herb will dismiss contractors who are fan-boys (or fan-girls) and has made that clear (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,31498.msg732905.html#msg732905).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 01 August 2013, 21:16:33
I've always found it weird how people will stick up for someone like Kathrine Davion and claim that she was altruistic and only wanted to help her realm when we have omniscient viewpoints that clearly show that her entire motivation was desire for personal power and petty jealousy over Victor.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Batman on 01 August 2013, 22:30:23
Yeah but it doesn't help that Victor pinned his brother's untimely demise on her.  If he'd waited for an investigation there might not have been Civil War.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 01 August 2013, 23:10:30
No, that incident was well past the tipping point.  Kathrine's hamfisted methods of dealing with planets she didn't like, her previously mentioned tendency toward cronyism, and years of fostering anti-Davion sentiment in the Commonwealth pretty well insured that there was going to be a civil war.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 01 August 2013, 23:49:12
No, that incident was well past the tipping point.  Kathrine's hamfisted methods of dealing with planets she didn't like, her previously mentioned tendency toward cronyism, and years of fostering anti-Davion sentiment in the Commonwealth pretty well insured that there was going to be a civil war.

I'm inclined to agree.  It may have started a year, maybe a few years later, but it pretty much was going to happen.  The former FedCom was a powder keg by that point.  ANY spark would've set it off.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 August 2013, 23:52:37
 I don't see anything wrong with giving the Lyrans a sense of nationality that is somethine other than being just another part of the Fed Suns. Does anyone that's not a Fed Sun sympathizer think it was a good idea to stay in the alliance? Apparently the line developer didn't and neither do many true Lyran fans.

 Some one mentioned the current 3145 time line. well I don't know much  about it but I believe that the current problems we are having are the result of having a descendant of Hanse on the throne. Poor management by a S-D.

 
No, it would have resulted in the author being fired and the book rewritten. Writing is done in concert under the aegis of the line developer, not by rogue authors. Herb will dismiss contractors who are fan-boys (or fan-girls) and has made that clear (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,31498.msg732905.html#msg732905).


 It was hypothetical.

 
I've always found it weird how people will stick up for someone like Kathrine Davion and claim that she was altruistic and only wanted to help her realm when we have omniscient viewpoints that clearly show that her entire motivation was desire for personal power and petty jealousy over Victor.

 still, no different than most leaders through BT history...even the jealousy over Victor part.

 Don't get me wrong. I know she was a horrible person. She did do good for the Lyrans, that can't be denied. I'm not a Victor fan, I drank the cool-aid for a while but it just always left a bad taste in my mouth, same with Kai. I just preferred Katy. She actually ruled as opposed to Victor who never really did.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 August 2013, 02:28:48
I don't see anything wrong with giving the Lyrans a sense of nationality that is somethine other than being just another part of the Fed Suns. Does anyone that's not a Fed Sun sympathizer think it was a good idea to stay in the alliance? Apparently the line developer didn't and neither do many true Lyran fans.

One, there already was a strong sense of Lyran nationality thanks to, oh, the Lyran Commonwealth being a powerful nation for centuries prior to this.  Two, what the hell defines a true Lyran fan?  Three, the line developer didn't think it was a good idea for the FedCom to stay together because it was too disruptive of the balance of power between the factions and PeaceTech doesn't sell.

Quote
still, no different than most leaders through BT history...even the jealousy over Victor part.

 Don't get me wrong. I know she was a horrible person. She did do good for the Lyrans, that can't be denied. I'm not a Victor fan, I drank the cool-aid for a while but it just always left a bad taste in my mouth, same with Kai. I just preferred Katy. She actually ruled as opposed to Victor who never really did.

Victor had his own set of screw ups, yes.  Quite a few of them, in fact.  Mostly stemming from his tendency to bend over backwards to avoid confrontation and his insistence on being the head of the military before being the head of state.  But he at least tried to do what he thought was best for his people, something Katherine never did.  The only Successor Lord in recent time who managed to be an even worse leader than Kathrine was Romanio Laio, who at least had the excuse of being paranoid and insane.  Kathrine was merely a narcissist who wanted to play princess and threw tantrums when reality failed to conform to her desire.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 02 August 2013, 03:33:20
You know..I hated Katherine, but I also respected her. She did do some stupid things, like killing
her mother and hiring the Laughing Jester to kill Omi. But, she was shrewd. Especially when she
got older. She was an ice-cold, manipulative female canid, but that made her a great villian. She
just had an unfortunate problem in that she forgot not to give Victor a reason to go against her.
However, you know what? She had the last laugh by outliving her brother, and seeing her son
land on Tharkad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 02 August 2013, 07:06:11
It was hypothetical.


Coming up 'hypothetical' situations of what the writers could write to justify a view is pointless. Someone could write that Kathrine defeated all of the Clan warriors in their 'Mechs with her kung-fu powers and united humanity under her rule, but that doesn't change the fact that as she was written she blew up her mom just to advance herself and was constantly driven by power.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 August 2013, 08:43:23
Coming up 'hypothetical' situations of what the writers could write to justify a view is pointless. Someone could write that Kathrine defeated all of the Clan warriors in their 'Mechs with her kung-fu powers and united humanity under her rule, but that doesn't change the fact that as she was written she blew up her mom just to advance herself and was constantly driven by power.

 I'm writing this book! KING-FU KITTY!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 02 August 2013, 19:18:22
Always figured most of the good officers came from Skye.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 02 August 2013, 19:53:44
If they didn't have such a "Dick Dastardly stops to cheat" mentality, I bet Skye could have legitimately been the powerhouse of the Lyrans.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 August 2013, 20:34:02
If they didn't have such a "Dick Dastardly stops to cheat" mentality, I bet Skye could have legitimately been the powerhouse of the Lyrans.

 naw, Donegal will always be the powerhouse.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 03 August 2013, 02:50:24
Coming up 'hypothetical' situations of what the writers could write to justify a view is pointless. Someone could write that Kathrine defeated all of the Clan warriors in their 'Mechs with her kung-fu powers and united humanity under her rule, but that doesn't change the fact that as she was written she blew up her mom just to advance herself and was constantly driven by power.

They still could have written something sympathetic, without changing anything detailed. I mean, Katherine *WAS*
a ruler and politically savvy. People couldn't have been loyal to her just because she wasn't Victor. They had to have
reasons to believe she was a good ruler and cared for her people. Otherwise, the FedCom Civil War would have been
a lot of "Look, we really aren't that fond you, but we aren't that fond of Katherine, either. Tell you what..you just move
on, and we will stay here, OK?" I have always wanted to see the side of things that got people to actually be willing
to blow up boats full of evacuees on Kentares, or other acts that we would consider atrocities in the BattleTech universe.

There was a book for Ravenloft called "I, Strahd." It portrayed Strahd, a character anyone would say was evil, as a
sympathetic character, portraying everything he did as for the good of his people. Would something like that done
to Katherine have really been that bad?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: foxbat on 03 August 2013, 04:53:11
There was a book for Ravenloft called "I, Strahd." It portrayed Strahd, a character anyone would say was evil, as a
sympathetic character, portraying everything he did as for the good of his people. Would something like that done
to Katherine have really been that bad?

That simply was not the option that was retained. Katherine simply was not interested in the people, she was only interested in two things : power, and looking good. She was ruthless and selfish, but had the looks and the wits to lure people to her side. She was politically savvy when devising manipulative schemes, but totally incompetent when it came to geopolitics. As she is depicted, she is, in my opinion at least, one of the most interesting and successful caracters of that period starting with Hanse's death and ending with the Jihad. YMMV, of course...  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Aldous on 03 August 2013, 06:06:17
They still could have written something sympathetic, without changing anything detailed. I mean, Katherine *WAS*
a ruler and politically savvy. People couldn't have been loyal to her just because she wasn't Victor. They had to have
reasons to believe she was a good ruler and cared for her people. Otherwise, the FedCom Civil War would have been
a lot of "Look, we really aren't that fond you, but we aren't that fond of Katherine, either. Tell you what..you just move
on, and we will stay here, OK?" I have always wanted to see the side of things that got people to actually be willing
to blow up boats full of evacuees on Kentares, or other acts that we would consider atrocities in the BattleTech universe.

There was a book for Ravenloft called "I, Strahd." It portrayed Strahd, a character anyone would say was evil, as a
sympathetic character, portraying everything he did as for the good of his people. Would something like that done
to Katherine have really been that bad?

That would have broken character. All of Hanse Davion's children spent their lives pretending to be their parents and/or grandparents. Its the price of bad genes.

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 06 August 2013, 19:55:55
Ah, Katy!  [rockon]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 August 2013, 20:24:21
You took longer to show up than I expected, Top.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ratwedge on 06 August 2013, 21:20:40
Anyone got an idea why Arc-Royal Mech Works is now Clan owned? Did I miss something or is this new information?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 06 August 2013, 21:27:48
It is?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 06 August 2013, 21:29:29
Last I heard it was still owned by House Kell, which would probably have it operating understandably close with the Lyran Wolves.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 06 August 2013, 21:29:55
Clearly the Clan is Arc-Royal Mechworks owned.   :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ratwedge on 06 August 2013, 21:40:41
It is?


Here we go:

Quote from: TRO: 3145 Lyrans, MGL-T1
and partnering Odin Manufacturing with Clan Wolf-in-Exile’s Arc-Royal MechWorks resulted in what many initially deemed an abomination.

Quote from: TRO: 3145 Lyran, Viking IIC
Although Clan Wolf-in-Exile manufactures the ’Mech, the Viking IIC’s low top speed does not fit with the Clan’s battle philosophy, leading to limited usage among their touman. Thus, the LCAF procures most of Arc-Royal MechWorks’ production runs.


Its weird, I'd be tempted to drop it in either errata/writers question but you can't have good ole rampart speculation with facts!



Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 06 August 2013, 21:46:05
Well, I'd take that more as either a slip of the quill or an ambiguous reference to CWIE's partner ARMW.  The 'partner' being omitted to avoid clunkiness because the word was already used earlier in the sentence.

Either way, I don't think that blurb means the company is in Clan hands.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 07 August 2013, 08:05:48
Well, I'd take that more as either a slip of the quill or an ambiguous reference to CWIE's partner ARMW.  The 'partner' being omitted to avoid clunkiness because the word was already used earlier in the sentence.

Either way, I don't think that blurb means the company is in Clan hands.

Yeah, I think that's the likely culprit, along with the two being so intertwined it might be difficult to tell where the actual separation is.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 August 2013, 08:34:23
looks like we got some CSO love today!

 http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6714

 http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6716
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 19 August 2013, 08:37:34
I have two Donegals waiting to be posted there as well (neither appeared in Alpha Strike.)  I also need to photograph that company from Alpha Strike and get them in the system.  So much to do, so little time to do it in
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 August 2013, 08:44:07
Very cool!

 I haven't been following that thread, maybe I will. so little time in the day...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 19 August 2013, 08:54:44
Wow...so Big Red(the SteinerStormhammer Atlas with the red face) was the Nekkar SPM colours?
Interesting.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 19 August 2013, 09:03:20
Does anyone know if the Tamar Cavaliers regiment still exists in the Dark Age?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 19 August 2013, 09:46:04
Does anyone know if the Tamar Cavaliers regiment still exists in the Dark Age?

I don't know....want me to play them so we can make sure they're dead? ;)
(Blood Spirit, House Ma Tsu Kai, 6th Lyran Guard, Free World's Legionaires, 9th Sword of light,
units I play seem to die...)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 19 August 2013, 10:12:26
I don't know....want me to play them so we can make sure they're dead? ;)
(Blood Spirit, House Ma Tsu Kai, 6th Lyran Guard, Free World's Legionaires, 9th Sword of light,
units I play seem to die...)

Oh, they were already killed - once - and then they have been brought back to life.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 19 August 2013, 10:22:45
Oh, they were already killed - once - and then they have been brought back to life.

Ah..then they are probably dead in the Dark Age...Herb seems to not like zombie units...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 19 August 2013, 10:38:11
Ah..then they are probably dead in the Dark Age...Herb seems to not like zombie units...

It would pretty ironic: Training thoroughly for their great day - that shall never come ...

To quote William Shatner: "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."
(http://cdn0.dailydot.com/uploaded/images/original/2013/3/22/airplane.gif)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Death by Zeus on 19 August 2013, 23:29:46
Ok Martian, what is that from? lol
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 August 2013, 00:16:13
Isn't that from airplane 2?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 20 August 2013, 00:27:03
Isn't that from airplane 2?

Yes, that is..
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 20 August 2013, 10:52:41
It just seemed quite fitting ...   :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 22 August 2013, 19:30:58
Even more CSO love today. Wow Ross! That caesar is amazing!

 http://camospecs.com/
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 22 August 2013, 22:39:51
Thanks!  I just posted the pictures in the miniatures forum... I did the Caesar as there had been a discussion a couple months ago about it and I'd just found the uh.. 3S?  Which ever one the Lyrans import that carries the HPPC and Gauss with max armor... yum!  [rockon]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 23 August 2013, 07:41:00
Import? Bah!
They make it on Hesperus II.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 23 August 2013, 07:52:25
Oh?  well... I stand by my  [rockon] then :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 August 2013, 08:07:36
LOL! yea that thing deserves the  [rockon] because it's pure  [skull] !
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 23 August 2013, 16:53:18
I've always liked the Caesar for some reason, but there was never variant I LIKED till that thing came out... yum
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 23 August 2013, 18:25:00
That is because it is a poor Cataphract  ;D

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 24 August 2013, 04:32:23
That is because it is a poor Cataphract built by people with a real design budget and mostly sane leadership  ;D

Fixed that for you.  8)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 24 August 2013, 07:11:55
Well, the original Caesar was a cheap way to get a Gauss Rifle into the 3050 battlefield and have the armor to remind you not to go running off to use your 360 pulse lasers-of-doom!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 August 2013, 10:17:19
I've always liked the Caesar for some reason, but there was never variant I LIKED till that thing came out... yum

 I love the concept of the Caesar and of cource the 'phract ( one of my most favorite mechs ) but yea, this Caesar is one nasty customer.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 25 August 2013, 10:26:13
Finally got a hold of both of the Steiner/Lyran field manual and source book. If anyone recalls around March I was going for House Steiner... And after many games and lots of reading I think I am ready to go for it O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 August 2013, 12:04:11
Welcome to the best side. We have Timbique dark.  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 25 August 2013, 12:27:39
Welcome to the best side. We have Timbique dark.  O0

Sorry, but "you" have not.

"We" have.

Yours sincerely
Free Worlds League
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 August 2013, 13:14:01
Stupid planet changes. I am not in the current era, and probably wont be.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 25 August 2013, 13:25:13
Don´t despair. Just think of what a lasting impression you will make at your officer´s gala if you produce a few crates of it. Everyone will recognize you for the well-connected and influential man you undoubtly are, considering at what outrageous prices you had to import it.  O0

This is one for the books. Us Leaguers rightfully zinging the Elsies. Just you wait and you will see us trolling the Cappies!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 25 August 2013, 16:10:31
 [cheers]

This is one for the books. Us Leaguers rightfully zinging the Elsies. Just you wait and you will see us trolling the Cappies!

 [cheers]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 26 August 2013, 09:15:45
Stupid planet changes. I am not in the current era, and probably wont be.
Agreed!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 26 August 2013, 23:55:31
Stupid planet changes. I am not in the current era, and probably wont be.

On the upside, I think Steiner's fortunes are going to be taking an upturn the next time the story advances.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 27 August 2013, 00:05:21
They pretty much have to if the faction's going to survive.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Dies Irae on 27 August 2013, 00:09:18
They pretty much have to if the faction's going to survive.

As your long time neighbor, I would like to request that you manage your dog better.

It's in our yard.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 27 August 2013, 00:10:32
Our dog is still behaving itself on Arc Royal.  We make absolutely no claim of ownership of any strays you may have picked up.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Dies Irae on 27 August 2013, 00:13:02
Our dog is still behaving itself on Arc Royal.  We make absolutely no claim of ownership of any strays you may have picked up.

But's it's bothering our new housecat...  :(


Also... strutting around claiming to represent you.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 27 August 2013, 00:51:04
 I suggest a fence like the RoTC used... oh wait...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 27 August 2013, 01:54:49
Remember, when it doubt it's probably the fault of either the Davions or the Liaos.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 27 August 2013, 05:35:36
Remember, when it doubt it's probably the fault of either the Davions or the Liaos.

Or both.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Dies Irae on 27 August 2013, 09:49:00
Remember, when it doubt it's probably the fault of either the Davions or the Liaos.

Yes.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 28 August 2013, 07:25:30
Well the blame depends on where you are. If your in the league it is Liaos fault and if your us it is Davions fault.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Dies Irae on 28 August 2013, 07:50:47
Well the blame depends on where you are. If your in the league it is Liaos fault and if your us it is Davions fault.

Again, why not both?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Heregar on 28 August 2013, 07:59:27
I would say both yet my Lyran pride refuses to agree with a leaguer ::)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 28 August 2013, 09:13:57
Pride goes before a fall.  :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 05 September 2013, 11:25:58
OK, i worked myself through TRO 3145 Steiner (especially the Mechs...) and the lyran part of the Era Report. And now my question is:

Is the Lyran Commonwealth deemed to fall due to writers hatred towards it?

Looking at the Era Report House Steiner failed in most undertakings. Supporting Comstar? Fail. Maybe even worse if they lower their cover and reveal themselfs as WoB. Letting a second aggressive clan taking the other flank? Total fail right from the start. Never ever understood that move, even after reading it two times. Just plane idiocy. And to alienate them was the next dump step. Raise of the social generals? Why? We were lucky to get rid of most of them and now those idiots claim important positions ... again?! Why?!?
Looking at our newest material i have to say, that we must be deemed to fall. If it is not build by some clan technicans, it is a fail. A few quite good Battle Armor (while we were not known to be the forefront of BA usage) and a good light fighter (while what remains of the LFW is more apt to fighters) cannot twist my opinion that we were fed with trash vehicles and crappy mechs like no other house.
Winterhawk APC? Paperthin armored hover with a senseless SRM. Will not do the job as it is scrapiron after the first heavy hit. DI VTOL? No hardhitting weapon on a field flodded with LB-X flak but tons of armor it will never need (may take two PPC hits from the front, but the rotor is as vulnerable as always). Swallow WIGE? Get away with that trash! No turret, no real range and not enough speed to take more than one critical beating slowing it down. Schildkröte? Must be a joke. 3/5 movement and no real beating weapons? Look at several capellan tanks and you know what tanks should look like. Manticore? XXL-engine and a full amphibious hull but no short range self defense. Will be kicked to death as every enemy tries to avoid the long range weapons. DI Schmitt suffers from its early birth during the Record Sheets Dark Age, which never knew something about heavy FF but still idiotic with standard flamers and massive tons of heat sinks. Second model with TC should be standard and not the craptastic base. Kelswa? Whoa... the first tank, that could do the job. Still slow, but wasn't anticipated in an other way. Gulltoppr? These are Long Tom CANNONs not LT ARTILLERY in two variants. It is a crawling bunker that tends to lean on its heavy hardened armor. But even that cannot hide, that is oversized and not immune against motive hits. And it is expensive like hell.
The new mechs are maybe even worth. Firestarter should have been part of the TRO Mercs as it is intended to be a merc mech. Jaguar is clan tech. As i said above, only the clan tech may survive. An ATM 9 and losing the silly SRMs is prevented by its first apperance in a novel. Storm Raider is pure crap. This trashcan can do nothing and i don't have an idea of what to do to improve its horrific performance. Mongrel? Who the hell ever needed the worst IS weapon and the equally useless butterknife in a clan mech?!? Rip off that trash and add a clanmade LB 10 X with two tons of ammo and it works! Gauntlet is nice, but looking at the capellan Vandal i still question the fixed integretation of a MASC. Why not a Supercharger saving weight and space? And please don't tell me to enter it afterwards. I never risk both systems at the same time and only the prime tries the supercavalry. Scourge is just a misled Jinggau copy. And it is beaten with a missing 5. jumpjet. The retro designed -WD1 is even worse as there was never a reason to drop the light FF. Ursa takes the MASC question to a new level. Why not ruining just one or two reactor criticals instead of all four legs? Götterdämmerung. Just another maximum armored 75 ton mech. Period. The new design idea leads to nothing but two torsobombs. Kick out the compact reactor and place something else in the torso sides and we can talk again. Zeus X. One more craptastic than the other, but suffering the same problem as the DI Schmitt. The all new -X4 doesn't save the day. And by the way... why does the house with the most clans around it never field a design of its own with a single clan weapon?!? Viking IIc is clan made. Those mechs were the only ones to impress me. King Crab has to many unneeded weapons (light ACs and standard medium lasers) and a small cockpit. It misses punch or (and...) range and needs a better pilot as it is a fire magnet. Even worth than some redesigns 60 - 70 years ago.

So if these books and their content are signs of what to come, i am really shocked. Are we doomed by TPTBs hatred toward this house?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Øystein on 05 September 2013, 12:08:34
Lets make one thing clear:

There is no such thing as "author hatred" towards any faction or anything. The state of the Lyran Commonwealth is because TPTB decided it was a desired plot development, both on it's own and to facilitate/build up under other plot developments. You do not make it to being a core writers/developer without being able to differentiate between your likes and dislikes as a fan, and being a good writer. Blatant fanboys seldom survive their initial writing assignment, let alone being along long enough to be allowed to help plan the story development.

With regards,
Øystein
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 05 September 2013, 12:32:46
For what my opinion is worth, all of the original five Great Houses have plot armor that prevents them from being wiped out.  House Marik may have 'fallen' for example, but they carry on in a form.  The worst that can happen to Steiner/Lyran Commonwealth is on display already.

Now if you take that presumption as being true, then Steiner's future is actually kind of bright.   You can't have an epic comeback without having been behind at halftime, afterall.


On the other hand, if you don't share my presumption (or are obliged to publicly refute it) you can still have hope.   All signs point to the Fortress walls coming down, and that must change the dynamic that put the Commonwealth in dire straights.  For example, if the Republic becomes a combatant, then the Jade Falcons and the Wolf Empire MUST deal with it.   Instantly Steiner's position becomes much improved because both of its most dangerous invaders have new fronts opening up.  Furthermore, the Republic has reason to be pissed at just about everyone.   House Steiner stands alone in the Inner Sphere as not having grabbed up Republic worlds after Grey Monday.  This means the forces coming out of the Republic are going to go anywhere BUT into the Commonwealth.  Not only that, but both are each other's only choice for cooperation or alliance.

Another fun thing to think about is ComStar.  Whether or not you believe plot armor protects the Great Houses, you might believe that ComStar has plot armor instead/in addition.   Sure, the decision to bankroll ComStar while HPGs were down turned out to have awful implications in the short term.. but assuming ComStar does NOT go under, then Steiner will have unprecedented leverage over the organization down the line.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 05 September 2013, 12:45:17
Is the Lyran Commonwealth deemed to fall due to writers hatred towards it?
Yes, it may happen - or maybe not. May I remind you that the Free Worlds League actually collapsed? There was no FWL for six decades (in universe) and many years (real world).

So if these books and their content are signs of what to come, i am really shocked. Are we doomed by TPTBs hatred toward this house?
I would say that the wisest thing you can do is to wait for the Field Manual: 3145. It should provide us with more details than the relatively brief (and differently focused) Era Report: 3145.

Looking at our newest material i have to say, that we must be deemed to fall.

Luckily, you may use some older 'Mechs, unless they have been explicitly labeled as "Extinct".

You don't like the KGC-009 King Crab? Okay. So take the older KGC-001. Its pair of Gauss Rifles is as effective as ever. Or KGC-007 with its paired RAC-5s and Plasma Rifle.

You don't like the ZEU-X4 Zeus? Okay. Try the old ZEU-9S2 Zeus. Yes, this old workhorse lacks the Reactive Armor - but it lacks the XXL Engine too.  ;) Or the ZEU-10WB with twin Heavy PPCs. Or the multipurpose ZEU-9T.

Etc.

Do not forget the the Lyran Alliance can import some good 'Mechs - the Neanderthal from the Regulan Fiefs, for example.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 05 September 2013, 12:50:38
Wouldn't the victory at Hesperus II be an indication things are starting to turn around?  Not long before you had Alaric tricking Malvina into attacking Tharkad for him and bounced.  Now you have Trillian tricking Alaric and Malvina to attack each other and kicking them both off Hesperus II.

And I don't share the pessimism about the LyrCom's TRO.  I actually think it comes in a close 2nd to the FedSuns in terms of overall quality.  And, to be fair, FS only wins because of the Vulpes, Gunsmith, Atlas II and Black Knight.  LyrCom's overall quality is more evenly distributed.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 05 September 2013, 13:29:40
umm... wow.  Have to say, you can't please anyone.  Either there's min/maxed that people cry about being too perfect, or you get the Lyran TRO with nothing heavily optimised, but also not pure junk (okay... the Storm Raider does suck, sorry  ;D  It's hobbled by DA stats)  I've used quite a bit from that TRO and have to say I enjoy several of the designs, even with their "weakness."
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Paul on 05 September 2013, 13:39:45
Is the Lyran Commonwealth deemed to fall due to writers hatred towards it?

And to pile on top of this silly idea: Herb's preferred Inner Sphere faction are the Lyrans. Also note who wrote Handbook House Steiner. Even if every other writer hated the Lyrans, and wanted them dead, it'd be irrelevant, either because the Line Dev's own bias would prevent it, or because the Line Dev ensures the needs of the story take precedence. Given the state of the Lyrans, the only logical conclusion available is that the storyline moves independent from individual faction preferences. Because if bias controlled things, the Steiners and Hell's Horses would be doing a LOT better.

Paul
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 05 September 2013, 13:41:53
Wouldn't the victory at Hesperus II be an indication things are starting to turn around?  Not long before you had Alaric tricking Malvina into attacking Tharkad for him and bounced.  Now you have Trillian tricking Alaric and Malvina to attack each other and kicking them both off Hesperus II.

Got to agree with this, the Lyran's seem to be turning things around, hopefully not to much  ;) but as others have said I think the original 5 great houses will always be around in some shape or form as they are integral to the game universe.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 05 September 2013, 13:42:41
The Schildkröte is also no joke.  In fact, i'm somewhat bitter at the overall quality of the design.  3/5, sure.  But, it's a defense tank.  It's job is to fit into a light vehicle bay and protect your rear echelon.  And what kind of weapon do you want to do that job?  Some sort of LBX AC.  You will want it to face down airborne raiders, shotgun hovercraft flanking you and to finish off the heavier units that have already gone through your front line units.  It is almost perfect.  Almost.  Hardened armor would have been a good choice to reduce random TACs, but the Armored Motive isn't bad.  It ensures you can keep moving along and follow the artillery and support vehicles it is meant to protect.  If you use shielding rules from TacOps, it's even better.  The LPPC is a small criticism, because it does match the range of the LB10X, but doesn't make full use of the 10 free heat sinks.  A regular PPC would have been awesome, but it doesn't fit.

Man, I like that tank.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 05 September 2013, 14:06:51
...The state of the Lyran Commonwealth is because TPTB decided it was a desired plot development, both on it's own and to facilitate/build up under other plot developments.

From the sight of a fan this could also mean the utter defeat of the Lyran Commonwealth is a long planned development. 8) It IS single sighted, but for me as a lyran fanboy the FedSuns matters as much as the Taurians do (close to nothing  ;) ).
So from MY point of view it is devastating to look at the development and state of the lyran nation SO FAR. Losing vast parts of its territory, sinking billions of Kroner into a project (Comstar) with no return of investment, reestablishing the unloved social generals when we got rid of them and an Archon that never wanted the job. The campaign for Hesperus II is maybe a success, but it looks like a one-trick-show, thus opening the road to even more losses.
So taking the present for a look into the future, the future will hold not much good for us. It is just the hope, that opening the Fortress Republic will turn the attention of the clans to a new target. It is just hope, that Malvina is crazy enough to attack the horses for their retreat and maybe find a stray gauss bullet to her head. It is just hope, that Comstar is not WoB thereby being infiltrated by the worst foe and attracting additional hate from the surroundings.
So for me as a lyran player it is more or less just hope, that it doesn't get worse than it already is. And looking back is no fun at all. As i am not a core developer it might doesn't matter what i have to say, but looking at all the downs and beatings the lyrans suffered over the years doesn't make me cheer.

For what my opinion is worth, all of the original five Great Houses have plot armor that prevents them from being wiped out.  House Marik may have 'fallen' for example, but they carry on in a form.  The worst that can happen to Steiner/Lyran Commonwealth is on display already.

Now if you take that presumption as being true, then Steiner's future is actually kind of bright.   You can't have an epic comeback without having been behind at halftime, afterall.


On the other hand, if you don't share my presumption (or are obliged to publicly refute it) you can still have hope.   All signs point to the Fortress walls coming down, and that must change the dynamic that put the Commonwealth in dire straights.  For example, if the Republic becomes a combatant, then the Jade Falcons and the Wolf Empire MUST deal with it.   Instantly Steiner's position becomes much improved because both of its most dangerous invaders have new fronts opening up.  Furthermore, the Republic has reason to be pissed at just about everyone.   House Steiner stands alone in the Inner Sphere as not having grabbed up Republic worlds after Grey Monday.  This means the forces coming out of the Republic are going to go anywhere BUT into the Commonwealth.  Not only that, but both are each other's only choice for cooperation or alliance.

Another fun thing to think about is ComStar.  Whether or not you believe plot armor protects the Great Houses, you might believe that ComStar has plot armor instead/in addition.   Sure, the decision to bankroll ComStar while HPGs were down turned out to have awful implications in the short term.. but assuming ComStar does NOT go under, then Steiner will have unprecedented leverage over the organization down the line.

I would not say, that there is something like plot armor, just by looking at the war of reaving. Four clans annihilated and the rest sealed for another invasion. Playing one of those clans would be even more depressing.
So IF there is something like a timejump in the near (real world) future, there is no guaranty, that House Steiner is not the one picking the short stick. Maybe Davion, too, but it seems that the always lucky FedSuns needed a kick in the croach after winning and winning and winning. But please detail me the long time wins of House Steiner since the 4. Succession war. I can't see many.
So it could go two ways: Coming back with force or going down entirely. Call me a pessimist, but looking at the history i don't see why we should start turning around and start to win.

Yes, it may happen - or maybe not. May I remind you that the Free Worlds League actually collapsed? There was no FWL for six decades (in universe) and many years (real world).
I would say that the wisest thing you can do is to wait for the Field Manual: 3145. It should provide us with more details than the relatively brief (and differently focused) Era Report: 3145.

I AM waiting for that one, hoping for some light at the end of the tunnel.

Luckily, you may use some older 'Mechs, unless they have been explicitly labeled as "Extinct".

You don't like the KGC-009 King Crab? Okay. So take the older KGC-001. Its pair of Gauss Rifles is as effective as ever. Or KGC-007 with its paired RAC-5s and Plasma Rifle.

You don't like the ZEU-X4 Zeus? Okay. Try the old ZEU-9S2 Zeus. Yes, this old workhorse lacks the Reactive Armor - but it lacks the XXL Engine too.  ;) Or the ZEU-10WB with twin Heavy PPCs. Or the multipurpose ZEU-9T.

Etc.

Do not forget the the Lyran Alliance can import some good 'Mechs - the Neanderthal from the Regulan Fiefs, for example.

Let me say it differently: it must be really bad if one has to rely on century old machines because the newer designs just plain suck.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 September 2013, 14:08:06
Yeah, it would be like 3050 all over again.

Only with a much higher margin for what's considered to suck.  ::)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 05 September 2013, 14:22:47
...
I would not say, that there is something like plot armor, just by looking at the war of reaving. Four clans annihilated and the rest sealed for another invasion. Playing one of those clans would be even more depressing.
...

Just because some Clans have died off it does not follow that the Great Houses are similarly endangered.

No slight to Clan fans intended, but the Clans aren't 'real factions'.   At least, not in the same way that the Great Houses are. With the possible exceptions of Wolf and Jade Falcon, they're all expendable.  They are not on the same level of integral-ness to the setting as the Great Houses are. 

Removing Steiner from the game would not at all be the same thing as killing off the Fire Mandrills or even the Nova Cats.

EDIT: To use another example without touching on Clan sensitivities:

Because mercenary 'factions' (like the ELH) are killed off, do you think that means Steiner is equally vulnerable?  I'd say it's clearly a "No".
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 05 September 2013, 14:40:05
Yes, and with the ilClan on the horizon, this seems similar to House Liao's breathing room gathered by the attention paid to the clans.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sabre sworn on 05 September 2013, 14:43:12
Yet it is fine to disband the FWL and House Marik...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 05 September 2013, 14:44:59
...
Removing Steiner from the game would not at all be the same thing as killing off the Fire Mandrills or even the Nova Cats.
...

Waitaminnute...there were Nova...Cats...????

...
Let me say it differently: it must be really bad if one has to rely on century old machines because the newer designs just plain suck.
Ever played a 3050 FWLM force?

-------------------------------------------

In fact I consider several units from TRO3145 LC to be outstanding. I plainly envy the Elsies for the Götterdämmerung, for instance. But even more important it diversifies the lyran pocket´o´tricks. What would have another Thunderhawk really contributed?

Also: Schildkröte +1
That tank is a troll.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 05 September 2013, 14:47:29
Yet it is fine to disband the FWL and House Marik...

For the story it was, didn't like it at the time but we're back now.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 05 September 2013, 14:48:20
Yet it is fine to disband the FWL and House Marik...

As I said, they're carrying on of a sort.  They're a far, far cry from dead/written out of the universe.   In fact, I'd wager quite a few people find the 'nuFWL' more interesting than the original.

They're the example of the 'worst case scenario' the Lyrans can expect.  The message being, as far as worst case scenarios go, that's really not all that bad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 05 September 2013, 14:52:05
I AM waiting for that one, hoping for some light at the end of the tunnel.
You know that the Field Manual:3145 should be released soon - "perhaps" in a week or so. Perhaps you should have waited with your post, until there's more info.

Let me say it differently: it must be really bad if one has to rely on century old machines because the newer designs just plain suck.

As far as I know, the Lyrans may still count on Thunderhawks and Devastators and those designs are from 2770s. I don't think I have ever heard a Lyran player complaining the he must field those "old designs". I am saying it because the BV of those 'Mechs is comparable to the BV of many new Clan 'Mechs.

Or, if you really wanna field the ClanTech, 'Mechs such as the Mad Cat Mk.II or the Mad Cat Mk.IV are still available to the Lyrans.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sabre sworn on 05 September 2013, 14:54:53
As I said, they're carrying on of a sort.  They're a far, far cry from dead/written out of the universe.   In fact, I'd wager quite a few people find the 'nuFWL' more interesting than the original.
I am not counted amongst them, however I do see your point.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 05 September 2013, 15:00:52
Hey, mind the thread title.  We have a thread for bellyaching about House Marik.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 05 September 2013, 15:02:25
Hey, mind the thread title.  We have a thread for bellyaching about House Marik.

True but we seem to be spamming the other great house's threads in order, or am i imagining that?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Alexander Knight on 05 September 2013, 15:02:59
So IF there is something like a timejump in the near (real world) future, there is no guaranty, that House Steiner is not the one picking the short stick. Maybe Davion, too, but it seems that the always lucky FedSuns needed a kick in the croach after winning and winning and winning. But please detail me the long time wins of House Steiner since the 4. Succession war. I can't see many.

Please.  Regale me with the tales of how House Davion retook its 'mech factories on the Draconis border.  Or how the Federated Suns was able to expand its military while Steiner and Kurita were getting ground up by the Clans.  Or how they avoided losing pre-3028 territory to the Marik-Liao offensive and the Chaos March....
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 September 2013, 15:44:44
Woah! Who says the social genetals are unloved? Speak for yourself. Not every one is of that opinion.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 05 September 2013, 15:55:51
Meh, it's just a drum beaten too often.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sabre sworn on 05 September 2013, 16:08:04
Meh, it's just a drum beaten too often.
Besides we all know that Lyrans only enjoy percussion... Instruments
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 06 September 2013, 09:45:27
It's not that I have an issue with the Social General phenominon for existing.  In my own life I've run into plenty of the type.  From a storytelling perspective, however, it has been done too many times.  Just in our lifetimes the Lyrans were crippled by Alessandro Steiner, inferior performance in Galahad and the war of 3039.  They had Thomas Hogarth in the Jihad, which is about as far as that trope needs to go, then Vedette Brewster messing everything up in the Dark Age.  And that's just the stuff in living memory, not historical stuff.

At least in the Jihad they dug up the Archonettes.  Exploring the other things that make Lyrans Lyran would be nice instead of using the same stock storyline over and over.
Title: Re: KG Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Lyran Falcon on 06 September 2013, 10:58:06
Woah! Who says the social genetals are unloved? Speak for yourself. Not every one is of that opinion.

I concur. The notion of the social generals is amusingly distinct, even if the outcomes for the Lyran state aren't necessarily ideal. The social general constitutes fluff that gives us the likes of Hauptmann-General Thomas Hogarth, and that sort of makes it all worthwhile. Sort of. Does any other faction have anything so endearing? Not that I know of. (I do however agree with the prior poster's remarks about the trope having been taken to its logical conclusion.)

Besides, if not for their existence, I wouldn't be able to spout the half-baked meme of THOMAS HOGARTH, HERO OF THE ALLIANCE!!! I'll see your heroic grimdark commissar and raise you an Atlas.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Dies Irae on 06 September 2013, 19:58:36
Woah! Who says the social genetals are unloved? Speak for yourself. Not every one is of that opinion.

Not singling Col.Hengist out for abuse, but the unnoticed typo just makes this even funnier...  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sabre sworn on 06 September 2013, 21:05:10
It is not civil to ridicule ones spelling or grammar.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 06 September 2013, 21:10:52
Personally I just wonder...aren´t all of them everywhere in the Inner Sphere more or less to be considered "social"?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Dies Irae on 06 September 2013, 21:31:42
It is not civil to ridicule ones spelling or grammar.

Entirely not intended as ridicule!

But it kinda set the whole tone for how I see the social general phenomenon...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sabre sworn on 06 September 2013, 21:50:59
Just a reminder that we must remember that tone and other such things, are harder to see in the written word.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Paul on 07 September 2013, 00:04:24
Just a reminder that we must remember that tone and other such things, are harder to see in the written word.

And that one must use the Report to Moderator function, not a posted remark, when a transgression is presumed.

Paul
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Moonsword on 07 September 2013, 06:42:51
Exactly.  Let us handle things like that, please.  It's why we're paid our princely salaries.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sabre sworn on 07 September 2013, 09:21:59
My apologies.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 September 2013, 09:30:06
ROFL! i took no offense. I have a new phone and I didn't look to see what it correctd for me.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 08 September 2013, 12:46:54
Exactly.  Let us handle things like that, please.  It's why we're paid our princely salaries.

Wow, you guys are actually paid?  I thought there was some sort of law or rule among game companies against paying their employees.

Like a vow of poverty, but with dice.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Moonsword on 08 September 2013, 13:13:51
Nope.  That was a sarcastic reference to the fact that we're all volunteers.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 08 September 2013, 22:19:02
Nope.  That was a sarcastic reference to the fact that we're all volunteers.

I know that feel, bro...

So I have a question: do we have any information on Lyran naval tactics? I know that we are desperately low on dropships, but what do we know about how we fight if we have to engage someone in space?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 08 September 2013, 23:24:59
Dunno about specific tactics, but your DropShip captains are sufficiently well-trained that they can take command of a WarShip at a moment's notice and beat the crap out of a Clan battleship. Davions you ain't, good sirs. 8)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 09 September 2013, 08:50:55
I know that feel, bro...

So I have a question: do we have any information on Lyran naval tactics? I know that we are desperately low on dropships, but what do we know about how we fight if we have to engage someone in space?

There is a naval battle in Blood of the Isle.  For the sake of brevity, broadside it till dead.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 09 September 2013, 13:21:22
So basically it's normal Lyran tactics, but IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 09 September 2013, 13:39:56
To be fair, it was the Yggdrasil, a Mjolnir class vs a Falcon Night Lord class.  Something of a stalemate.

And yeah, the recovery of the LAS Invincible was a nice prize.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 09 September 2013, 13:43:32
Stalemate? Yggy was damaged, but in a single salvo, blew out that Nightlord's tailpipe, completely removing it from the campaign for that system. and like I said, that was after the bridge had been shot out, requiring a DropShip CO to take command from an auxiliary CIC.

Do not **** with Space Steiners. They will **** your **** up.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 09 September 2013, 14:19:18
I meant that both vessels were effectively neutralized from further supporting the battle on Syke.  Considering the match up, Lyrans did well for themselves.  All they had to do to make that bigger is better thing work was stop having gravity call their bluff.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ratwedge on 09 September 2013, 16:43:29
Do not **** with Space Steiners. They will **** your **** up.

Are these the same Steiners that had to be given one of their Mjolnir's back after they lost it?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 09 September 2013, 16:52:18
YOU go head-to-head with a Mckenna and see how intact your navy is afterwards!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ratwedge on 09 September 2013, 18:00:18
YOU go head-to-head with a Mckenna and see how intact your navy is afterwards!

So in reality the wording of the badass Steiners in space should be:

Do not **** with Space Steiners. They will **** your **** up. Unless its a McKenna, then its the Lyrans who will get ****** up.

;)



Plus everyone knows the Steiners sacrificed Warships for glorious Omnifighters.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 09 September 2013, 19:40:45
At least we don't make a habit of crashing them into other warships or planets.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Øystein on 10 September 2013, 02:27:34
YOU go head-to-head with a Mckenna and see how intact your navy is afterwards!

Challenge accepted!

Lemme see, who still has an McKenna I can send against the CGB Rasalhague.

Cheers
Øystein
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Hptm. Streiger on 10 September 2013, 02:32:33
At least we don't make a habit of crashing them into other warships or planets.
Referring to the war ship battle - it would have been better to crush the Yggdrasil into the surface of Skye - and killing all those Jade Chickens - even when it mean to destroy the whole planet.

Death would have been mercy in the face of a occupation by those monsters.


 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 10 September 2013, 09:23:19
Challenge accepted!

Lemme see, who still has an McKenna I can send against the CGB Rasalhague.

That's been done, remember? Blake's Sword did NOT enjoy the process.

And sadly, I don't think there are any Mckennas left in the IS... :'(

I know the Scorpions have one, and there might be one or two left in the Homeworlds, but that's another story completely.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Decoy on 10 September 2013, 09:34:47
Thus far, it seems like a Texas is the minimum cut down that needs to destroy a Leviathan. You're probably losing the ship anyway...but hey! No more Leviathans :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 10 September 2013, 09:36:35
But who's going to pull aggro from the Dragon's Breath launchers?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 10 September 2013, 09:38:33
But who's going to pull aggro from the Dragon's Breath launchers?

More often than not? Themselves.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 10 September 2013, 12:06:20
Thus far, it seems like a Texas is the minimum cut down that needs to destroy a Leviathan. You're probably losing the ship anyway...but hey! No more Leviathans :D

Actually all you need to do is put a few thousand clan-spec ER Large Lasers on a dropship.  It and the Levi will wipe each other out.. but you're only down a dropship ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: BigDuke66 on 12 September 2013, 01:42:44
Looking at the 3145 map all we need to do is our own "Operation Rat" and send some Jade chicken to KFC.
And just like Davion had us to keep its back free of the Dracs, we now need someone that keeps the Wolfs off our backs, could we make a deal with Marik, Galatea & the Republic?
If so would our assets be enough to do it?
I guess not without the WiE and all mercs we could afford, there isn't any world in the clan zone that a merc unit is interested in like the Northwind Highlanders were with Northwind back in the 4th SW?

Lets face it all is set for a glorious comeback, that or we roll onto out back like a dead fish and that's it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 September 2013, 12:27:48
Are these the same Steiners that had to be given one of their Mjolnir's back after they lost it?

 Isn't that the one the WoB gave back to us, or were going to give back?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 12 September 2013, 12:29:31
Nah, the one the WiE beat down, took for a while, and then gave back. Probably in better condition than when they found it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: BigDuke66 on 12 September 2013, 13:04:08
Has WiE a shipyard to do such repairs?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 12 September 2013, 13:08:43
Pants if I know. All we really know is, they shot it, they took it, they gave it back, and I *think* it was in full fighting trim when the Jihad kicked off.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: BigDuke66 on 12 September 2013, 13:39:11
Why did they hit it at all, did we ever had serious trouble with the WiE?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 12 September 2013, 13:41:45
It was the Civil War, and they were siding with Peter. Nondi sent it out to intercept them on their way in to Tharkad, and it got bit by a Werewolf. A lot.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: BigDuke66 on 12 September 2013, 13:43:46
Ah gee almost forgot the turmoils of that time, thanks.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 29 September 2013, 19:57:09
I'm looking at FM 3145. I thought at the end of the Jihad there was a 7th Donegal guards unit. In 3145 it shows the 2nd and 8th etc.

 Any one know what happened to the 7th?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: roosterboy on 29 September 2013, 20:07:43
FM3145 in fact says what happened to the 7th, right there on the page for the Donegal Guards.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 29 September 2013, 20:38:13
Quote
After the fighting for Tharkad, the Eighth was assigned the
surviving warriors and machines of the Seventh Donegal Guards,
which provide a welcome boost to the Eighth’s own depleted ranks.

It's with the Eighth's fluff.  I just found it.  Another unit of mine that bites the dust.  :(

First the 6th gets rolled into the 7th, then the 7th gets rolled into the 8th.  Geez
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 29 September 2013, 20:56:04
It's with the Eighth's fluff.  I just found it.  Another unit of mine that bites the dust.  :(

First the 6th gets rolled into the 7th, then the 7th gets rolled into the 8th.  Geez

So, it's not REALLY dead....it just changed names ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 29 September 2013, 21:08:38
So, it's not REALLY dead....it just changed names ;)

It sucks when you have 20 miniatures painted up to what I consider my better standards.  I mean, yeah, it's only a decal but, it's still a decal that has to change.  Just getting annoyed at the carousel of destruction.  My Wolf unit made it and my Bear unit was Omega which is now.... uh... gone native.  Iron Guard was killed off, Coyote galaxy killed in a single sentence in WoR, 3rd Crucis in a sentence or two, and uh, well, I don't count 3rd Division for WoB or The Society as a whole.  We at least KNEW they were going to die!  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: HodgePodge on 29 September 2013, 22:24:00
It sucks when you have 20 miniatures painted up to what I consider my better standards.  I mean, yeah, it's only a decal but, it's still a decal that has to change.  Just getting annoyed at the carousel of destruction.  My Wolf unit made it and my Bear unit was Omega which is now.... uh... gone native.  Iron Guard was killed off, Coyote galaxy killed in a single sentence in WoR, 3rd Crucis in a sentence or two, and uh, well, I don't count 3rd Division for WoB or The Society as a whole.  We at least KNEW they were going to die!  :D
The dry-erase markers the Devs use at their grand strategy sessions are fueled with tears. Lord knows they've wrung a few quarts from me.  :'(
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 September 2013, 08:04:03
 I must have glanced over it when I read it and not noticed it. I did't have any attachment to the 7th like I did the 6th but to kill off a unit to just kill it off? eh, oh well.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 30 September 2013, 17:14:06
It's with the Eighth's fluff.  I just found it.  Another unit of mine that bites the dust.  :(

First the 6th gets rolled into the 7th, then the 7th gets rolled into the 8th.  Geez

C'mon, how can an Interstellar Nation made of a hundred or so Planets possibly have enough resources to cobble together enough people and equipment to raise a regiment?  [wildandcrazy]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 September 2013, 21:37:35
No kidding...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 01 October 2013, 00:16:02
C'mon, how can an Interstellar Nation made of a hundred or so Planets possibly have enough resources to cobble together enough people and equipment to raise a regiment?  [wildandcrazy]

The Falcons ate them all?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 01 October 2013, 06:53:52
The Falcons ate them all?

The Falcons are too busy staring into mirrors and flexing their biceps to notice.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 01 October 2013, 07:29:33
The Falcons are too busy staring into mirrors and flexing their biceps to notice.

Funny..that is not what I have been seeing in the Dark Age...or are you referring to the ones "exiled"
to the Desant?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 October 2013, 08:05:14
The falcons are always preening. Malvina just does it differently
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 01 October 2013, 08:25:15
The falcons are always preening. Malvina just does it differently

Yeah..after eating some Lyran babies..I hope you guys can put a stop to her.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 01 October 2013, 17:57:36
Yeah..after eating some Lyran babies..I hope you guys can put a stop to her.

Black widows in the privy are traditional, but I'm open to other options.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 02 October 2013, 11:21:48
Last time I checked, it seemed like you guys were in serious need of some reinforcements  ^-^ So this here (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33799.0.html) might interest you.

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 02 October 2013, 11:41:39
Fan mades aside, i'm fairly content with the LC TRO.  Best battle armor in 3145.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 02 October 2013, 12:00:30
Yeah, it's not too shabby, but except for maybe two or three designs in total there is also nothing in it that the Wolves (or the Falcons for that matter) need to be in awe of when faced with it on the battlefield. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 October 2013, 12:21:33
Love the Zeus, fear the Zeus.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 02 October 2013, 12:38:48
Hmm... aside from the Battle Armors and the Sternensturm most of the units in the official TRO 3145 LC are just ...  [blank].

Some reinforcements would have been really appreciated.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 October 2013, 15:31:42
Have you not seen the gotterdamarung ( how ever its spelled ) or the bushwacker omni? Don't think in terms of clan minsters.... think in terms of IS mechs. Love the Zeus,fear the Zeus...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 02 October 2013, 15:41:48
Hmm... aside from the Battle Armors and the Sternensturm most of the units in the official TRO 3145 LC are just ...  [blank].

Some reinforcements would have been really appreciated.

DI VTOL may look like the helicopter, but it's actually a very fast transport that can deploy one squad of standard BA into enemy backfield.

Swallow WiGE has got a Snub-nose PPC and it's actually similar to some hovertanks such as Gladius or Saladin Mk.II.

Schildkröte is a slow defensive tank. It doesn't need to be fast, as it will always be near your dropship, MFB, ammo dump, etc. Its variant with the Heavy PPC is not a tank, but a mobile pillbox. And the BV of both variants is very cheap 1 000 BV points.

You don't have to use the Manticore II, if you don't want to. My personal opinion is that the original Manticore was the best tank of its class.

Kelswa tank has one single purpose: bring two Gauss Rifles - which it does.

Firestarter is nothing special, but some faction has had to get those Dark Age units. And it makes sense to give it to the Lyrans, as they manufactured the original Firestarter.

Jaguar is perhaps not fully optimised, but it still allows you to bring four Clan ER Medium lasers and the ATM system with backup SRMs in one compact package. The FWL has got the Havoc with four IS ER Mediums and one SRM-4 - if we talk about comparable Light 'Mechs ...

I agree that the Storm Raider and Mongrel are pretty bad, but the FWL got the Violator. Yes, that's that slow 'Mech with the Mining Drill and twin MRM racks.

The Buchwacker II Gauntlet is OmniMech and it's much better than the old Bushwacker with ER Large Laser and AC-10 with mere 10 rounds. Now you have Heavy PPC and Thunderbolt-10 with 12 reloads. And the Engine is no longer an XL reactor, but much more durable Light Engine ...

The Scourge has a handicap with that missing fifth JJ, but the fluff suggests that we may get a new variant with something else than the GR, so perhaps even that unfortunate movement will be improved.And even then the Scourge is a mobile and well protected GR platform.

The Ursa has good firepower, and its weight and Quad stability makes it great for charging enemies.

As I wrote about two pages earlier, there are two Zeus variants that can replace the ZEU-X4 (ZEU-9T/ZEU-9S2).
The same can be said about the King Crab.
Oh, and the ZEU-9WD is one nice brawler for a relatively cheap BV.

And of course, there's the Viking IIC. Is that a bad 'Mech?


Perhaps I am too optimistic ...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 02 October 2013, 16:04:50
Well, my personal verdict was three outstanding designs (Viking IIC and the two BAs) plus the Sternensturm (if one is into Aerospace). The rest was... okay, I guess? Nothing too fancy though. And I won't even mention stuff like the Firestarter or the Storm Raider. My Timber Wolves laugh at those two  8)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 02 October 2013, 17:03:09
I tested most of my beloved lyran toys, but still most of the time ... [blank]
And i have to stress out most of the time.

DI VTOL: too much armor and not enough firepower. Even with 5.5 tons of heavy FF it will go down after the fifth rotor hit.

Swallow: one of my biggest disappointments. No turret and not fast enough to avoid being hit. Needs to be played with TO rules or will suffer from motive crits too easily. After it is forced to land it is a pillbox with fixed weapons - and dead meat.

Schildkröte: To slow for its low weight. Armored motive does not mean it is impossible to break it. And afterwards it is another pill box with limited armor (as it ate some fire until it got immobilised).

Manticore II: Too much weight wasted on fully amphibious. No short range defense (has to rely on the hPPC and its TC).

DI Schmitt: suffers from its first record sheet publication with the MWDA RS. Still pure idiocy to install standard flamers when additional heat sinks were already needed, even with all the old tools like HM Vee around. (TC variant should be standard model or at least the light armor should be upscaled).

Kelswa: One of those exceptions.

Gulltoppr: Remember these are Long Tom cannons not LT artillery. So with the clan model excidengly rare it is ... two gauss rifles and tons of armor?  ???

Firestarter: the same as the DI Schmitt. Published as MWDA record sheet 10 years (even more?) earlier. It is so retro, i still prefer a FS9-S2 or -S3 and those are (ingame) 70 years old.

Jaguar: This is the other exception of the rule: if it is build by clan, it is not as flawed as other designs. Still could be improved, but it works.

Storm Raider: Just open up the trash can... this piece of junk should have never been published at all.

Mongrel: why the most worthless weapon Battletech has to offer? Rip out that bs AC 5 as well as the butter knife and install a clanmade LB 10 X with two tons of ammo and we talk again.

Gauntlet: Well, not the worst, but still i would have prefered a fix installed supercharger instead of the additional solution. MASC weighs too much and eats up additional crits. That would have been the short range self defense i needed during my tests - and maybe another weapon instead of the Thunderbolt which didn't hit or was smacked by AMS. Still not the worst design they offered.

Scourge: a crippled Jinggau. And the fifth jumpjet wouldn't be that impossible if they didn't ripped off the light FF of the variant to stuff it with maximum standard armor. Hey, light FF has been in production for 70 years, it is not that ultrarare material!

Ursa: One of my worst experiences i ever had: which idiot stuffed MASC into a quad mech when a supercharger is available?!? Hoped for additional MP and ended with a permanent 1/2 (that is the result if you roll for four criticals with nothing but hips and actuators available). If it had been a supercharger it would have run hot, but it wouldn't have ended as a semibunker. Well, my enemy found an easy pray...

Götterdämmerung: most overrated mech ever played. After getting its left torso opened and the lonely life support crited away during the same hit, a LB X pellet and some SRMs ended the Götterdämmerung without ever touching the central internal structure. It doesn't need to be holed, one just needs to open up the left or right torso side and let the critical hit transfer do the rest. Rest of the mech was nearly undamaged.

Zeus X: Only the -X4 is really new. The rest are results of the MWDA RS. That could excuse some of the weird solutions (first offical patchwork armor so far), but still a 400 XXL. Yeah, lyrans can't build cheap. I stick to my standard -9S2...

Viking IIc: clanbuilt turrettech monstrosity. It is clantech and it is one of those exceptions. Had some really horrific experiences fighting this thing.

King Crab -009: fire magnet with a small cockpit and too much of everything. Never needed that small cockpit if somebody could have scrapped those useless ACs. Needs a good pilot (raising the overall BV) or tumbles all of the time. Redesigned my own after the first test and never touched that official abomination again.

Würger: special purpose vehicle and its purpose is not fighting.

Trutzburg: nice but if a dropship gets prime target it is too close to the front line.


So finally, i think the lyran commonwealth could need some new mechs that are more than just design studies or just plane targets.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 02 October 2013, 17:31:44
Lyrans had some of the best 'Mechs come out of 3055/3058.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, the crop that came in the Lyran 3145 TRO are almost all great role players and help boost the bevy of nasty the Lyran state already had access too.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Ratwedge on 03 October 2013, 06:20:45
The Upgrades section of TRO:3145 looks like it might offer some tasty morsels for the Lyrans.

The faster than average Atlas, the Banshee -9s with boosted c3 and a few other goodies there. I seriously hope the Lyrans get the new Mangoel as well as its potentially shaping up to be a nice heavy with IS body and Clan weapons (Lyrans with HAGS).

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 12 October 2013, 14:59:32
Lyrans sure did get a lot of stuff it seems in the new Record Sheets.  Least favorite is the all ER LRM Salamander, but then I don't play on map's the size of the living room  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 October 2013, 22:53:51
Same here. Leave that to the 40K Apocalypse games. I like the original salamander, ELRM's are just not my style. I'm sure some people will like them though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 12 October 2013, 23:33:05
Yup, they have their uses for sure, but for how I play 99.9% of the time, the added range and higher minimums just aren't worth it.

Several Hauptmann variants as well, so we know they are alive and kicking at least.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 October 2013, 23:34:42
 I was kind of afraid they were gone...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 12 October 2013, 23:38:42
It doesn't shed any light on whether they are produced again or not, but there's three variants of various degrees of quality.  The twin Clan UAC-20, twin TSEMP one is a bit weird but the other two fight at all ranges IIRC.  Don't have the stats fully memorized yet  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 13 October 2013, 00:17:13
I like the look of the F variant: iHGR (with CASE II), HPPC, Angel ECM, and 3 Medium X-Pulse Lasers.  Pity it's stuck with fixed CASE in the Right Torso.

The M variant is weird: Clan ER PPC, 3 LRM 15s, and a Boosted C3M.

What does everyone think of the new Berserker variant?  It looks... weird.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 13 October 2013, 10:06:46
I haven't picked up the pddf yet... unfortunatly.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 14 October 2013, 06:36:52
I like the look of the F variant: iHGR (with CASE II), HPPC, Angel ECM, and 3 Medium X-Pulse Lasers.  Pity it's stuck with fixed CASE in the Right Torso.

The M variant is weird: Clan ER PPC, 3 LRM 15s, and a Boosted C3M.

What does everyone think of the new Berserker variant?  It looks... weird.

What is weird about the Hauptmann M? It's a Steiner Naginata with improved systems.

The Berserker is brute force. TSM and a hatchet, some clanmade weapons and a Bombastlaser do dial exactly the heat you need. Angel ECM instead of a selfendangering AMS is a real bonus. As long as this new armor works this mech could rock (or draw every fire your enemy can point in your direction).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Moonsword on 14 October 2013, 16:28:53
I like the look of the F variant: iHGR (with CASE II), HPPC, Angel ECM, and 3 Medium X-Pulse Lasers.  Pity it's stuck with fixed CASE in the Right Torso.

It's a very conventional sort of loadout (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).  The medium XPLs are there to help deal with little buggers who try to run under your range minimums.  I really was just trying to cram the iHGR on there and give it a decent supporting loadout that let it fight competently, not establish a new threshold for crazy or overall firepower.

What is weird about the Hauptmann M? It's a Steiner Naginata with improved systems.

Yep.  Nasty bugger.  I rather like the looks of it and kind of wish I'd gone for boosted C3 instead Angel on the F now.

The Berserker is brute force. TSM and a hatchet, some clanmade weapons and a Bombastlaser do dial exactly the heat you need. Angel ECM instead of a selfendangering AMS is a real bonus. As long as this new armor works this mech could rock (or draw every fire your enemy can point in your direction).

I think that may be the first time I've seen someone suggest a real semi-practical use for a bombast laser that actually manages to exploit its quirks.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 14 October 2013, 22:42:28
What is weird about the Hauptmann M? It's a Steiner Naginata with improved systems.

It's a Hauptmann without any heavy ballistic weapons.  It's like the only Hauptmann without any heavy ballistic weapons.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Durandal on 17 October 2013, 11:25:27
I'm willing to forgive that for a Clan ERPPC.  The F and M are definitely my favourite upgrades out of the bunch.  The first simply delivers a good amount of damage down range with no frills or hassles.  The second is an excellent support machine (to go with the one we already received in our faction TRO).  They actually seem like they both have a nice synergy together. 

The T is just kind of weird.  It creates a big, scary no-go-zone bubble of doom.  But being slow and with no jump jets to exploit its advantages in a city or other built up terrain, it mostly just feels like something you'd pop in to a lance to look super menacing and to provide close-range defence for vulnerable snipers.  Scary potential firepower, but probably too slow to use it effectively.

Maybe we can tear 'em apart and use the Clan-tech UAC20's for Blitzkrieg upgrading? :D

I'm also really liking the Berzerker.  The Bombast Laser is actually kind of cool for dialing in heat levels to keep the TSM running nicely and quad Clan ERMLs make for some great punch in close.  And those jump jets make it ideal for fighting in cities.  I could see myself really liking this in fights where CQB engagements will be common.

The BNC-9S2 is kind of interesting, though I'm not much of a C3 guy, so I'd have preferred to keep the SRMs (or more guns in general).  But outside of that it seems a nice sniper platform that can get the job done.

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 19 October 2013, 19:40:23
The new Berzerker? I am in love!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 21 October 2013, 08:45:51
Yeah, dat Berserker...  :o

As much as the political scene sucks, we have got some sweet tech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 21 October 2013, 08:50:19
Yeah, dat Berserker...  :o

As much as the political scene sucks, we have got some sweet tech.

Bombast Laser for the heat management, and Jump jets! Finally! A canon Berserker with
Jump Jets!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 21 October 2013, 12:12:08
Looks like we got some love last friday on CSO. I was busy and forgot to check it.

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6774
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 21 October 2013, 12:13:31
Bombast Laser for the heat management, and Jump jets! Finally! A canon Berserker with
Jump Jets!

 I can't wait to use this beast. DFA with a 'zerker... yes please.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 21 October 2013, 19:11:31
I can't wait to use this beast. DFA with a 'zerker... yes please.

Now, give it a pilot in A Time of War who has that SPA that let's him do a second physical attack
after a physical attack or Special Close Combat Attack? *EVIL GRIN*
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 21 October 2013, 20:00:15
Ugh, brutal. Guy I gamed with had that on a jumping charger... he'd jump in behing you and well, I learned not to let him get within range.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 22 October 2013, 05:27:02
Not meaning to take away your thunder, but I don't know, when I look at the new Zerker, I mostly see wasted potential and feel like it was intentionally nerfed despite the use of Clan tech.
A basically useless armor that has been incorporated just for the sake of being new and Lyran, Jump Jets on a machine that is clearly built for running (a supercharger would have been the much smarter choice, just compare the benefits in terms of weight and crits, and if you wanna argue urban warfare capabilities you have your Hauptmanns, King Crabs etc. that do that job just as good), a compact gyro that is not needed given the two empty crit slots, but even then the two additional crit slots in the CT are used for what? Endo-Composite crits that make you roll again?
Also it uses a Bombast laser which at first glance seems like a good idea for heat management. But on second glance you realize what a piece of utter garbage that laser is in every other situation. Given the Bombast's range, weight and crits you suddenly realize what a poor choice it is on that mech, if you would simply replace it with more Clan ER Mediums and a bunch of small/ER small (IS) lasers.
Of course it still has TSM and the hatchet as well as an Angel ECM, a Clan engine and at least 4 Clan ER Mediums.
When being faced with that thing, it certainly wouldn't put the fear of god in me. Pick it apart from the distance with one to two heavy salvos and that should do the job, cause luckily, in that situation, the new Zerker will succumb just as fast if not even faster than the BRZ-C3 due to the lower overall amount of armor.
And even if that is not possible, take away its hatchet due to TACs, which is very likely utilizing focused fire, and the mech basically ceases to be a threat.
Also it lacks the C3's ability to spot for a C3 network, neither can it TAG for heavy missiles/artillery hitters in the back row.

No, can't share the feeling of being impressed by the new Zerker. To me, some other new Lyran toys seem more of a danger to Clan Wolf ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 22 October 2013, 07:50:42
Sorry, not every mech can be as munchy as the timber wolf.  Some of us play mechs because they're quirky or not totally optimised.

You have to realize that many of the new mech varients for this era seem to be a transition. They're trying out different things to see how it all works before there is another time jump and tech jump.

Think of it like a 3025 banshee... have some lance mates give it cover until it gets into physical range and watch it kick legs clean off right up into the center torso.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 22 October 2013, 08:42:37
You have to realize that many of the new mech varients for this era seem to be a transition. They're trying out different things to see how it all works before there is another time jump and tech jump.

At least their upgrades are better then the 3050 upgrades.

But, I find it interesting how many people go "A berzerker is not dangerous." I wonder on how these people
convince their opponents to only play on maps with little to no terrain. Now, true..I could see the Berzerker
with TSM + Supercharger..but, that actually is truly broken when you take into account a 90 damage Charge.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 22 October 2013, 10:22:18
The Malachi crunch ( yes, that's a happy days reference )
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 22 October 2013, 12:26:10
Sorry, not every mech can be as munchy as the timber wolf.  Some of us play mechs because they're quirky or not totally optimised.


Yes, I realize that and there is a point to it. But especially the two Endo-Composite crits in the CT still feel like intentional nerf, to name just one example.
Anyhow, have you checked out your faction's Fan-TRO supplemental yet? Compare the new canon Zerker with the Fan-made Yggdrasil. The latter would eat the other for breakfast (rather metaphorically speaking, if you compare how it would perform against other mechs, not necessarily against each other). That is the kind of melee mech which would make me as a Clanner sweat.
Anyhow, as I said before, looking at the new Hauptmann configs, I feel those are generally better. Specialized, but efficient and without intentional weaknesses in the actual design.
Not sure whether the Trebaruna is Lyran (I figure the 'H' would stand for Hesperus?), but that thing is also outright wicked.

Quote
Now, true..I could see the Berzerker
with TSM + Supercharger..but, that actually is truly broken when you take into account a 90 damage Charge.

True as that may theoretically be, performing a Charge successfully is actually not THAT easy, at least from what I've seen so far. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 22 October 2013, 13:05:22
Which fan tro?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 22 October 2013, 13:31:49
Fan TRO?  #P

Believe that goes in the Design forum honestly.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Pa Weasley on 22 October 2013, 14:01:12
Not sure whether the Trebaruna is Lyran (I figure the 'H' would stand for Hesperus?), but that thing is also outright wicked.
In this instance, the H doesn't designate the primary nation of manufacture. At least it wasn't intended as such. Just a comment on the armor.  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 22 October 2013, 14:16:36
Which fan tro?

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33799.0.html

Quote
In this instance, the H doesn't designate the primary nation of manufacture. At least it wasn't intended as such. Just a comment on the armor. 

Do you happen to know which faction has access to the new Trebaruna?  ^-^
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Pa Weasley on 22 October 2013, 14:21:22
Sorry, gotta wait on the MUL update for that one.  O:-)

But it you want to use it for the Lyrans, I'm not going to stop you.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 22 October 2013, 16:15:41
But it you want to use it for the Lyrans, I'm not going to stop you.

Nah, I'm good. At the most it would be for my opForces anyways. ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 29 October 2013, 09:01:43
Got some CSO love again. This time it's the sausey 6th

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6773
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 30 October 2013, 09:01:29
Everybody loves the Saucy 6th. 8)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 30 October 2013, 21:58:44
Everybody loves the Saucy 6th. 8)

Except CGL, as, well, they are still dead in 3145  :'(
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 October 2013, 23:51:37
Not P.G. 13 enough i would guess.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 31 October 2013, 16:17:49
Everybody loves the Saucy 6th. 8)

They were my first Lyran love. I certainly hope they come back from the dead at some point.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 01 November 2013, 14:09:43
Hey, it happened with the 4th Royal Guards.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 November 2013, 14:13:08
Most of the Donegal guards units were never rebuilt also. Instead, they added more...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 November 2013, 10:55:55
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6794

Some more lovins from CSO. spunky little light.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 08 January 2014, 20:03:27
What does everyone think of the new Berserker variant?  It looks... weird.

It's easily the best Berserker so far, and it finally discovered a very good use for the Bombast Laser--juggling heat levels with TSM. And the impact-resistant armor is quite important, seeing how often you'll be in melee range.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 08 January 2014, 20:48:11
It's easily the best Berserker so far, and it finally discovered a very good use for the Bombast Laser--juggling heat levels with TSM. And the impact-resistant armor is quite important, seeing how often you'll be in melee range.

As I was talking to my group about it...our Jade Falcon player looked at me and said "No, just..no!"
Makes me sad :( Then again, considering what my group has seen me do with the regular TSM
'zerker...or what they have seen me do with a Hatchetman, or, more recently, a Shield-turion..
it makes sense..
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 09 January 2014, 05:11:44
As I was talking to my group about it...our Jade Falcon player looked at me and said "No, just..no!"
Makes me sad :( Then again, considering what my group has seen me do with the regular TSM
'zerker...or what they have seen me do with a Hatchetman, or, more recently, a Shield-turion..
it makes sense..

If they don't let you use the Berserker ... Do you know that the Lyrans have bought the Neanderthal?   }:)

(http://www.warrenborn.com/UnitSection/WS/WS116.jpg)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 09 January 2014, 05:25:23
If they don't let you use the Berserker ... Do you know that the Lyrans have bought the Neanderthal?   }:)

(http://www.warrenborn.com/UnitSection/WS/WS116.jpg)

I am my groups resident Close-Combat Expert in BattleTech. Inside PPC Minimum range is home for me, and in
melee is where the fun is. My group generally gets nervous about me in ANYTHING that is close combat focused.
Approximately what one said when they saw the Snub-nosed PPC was "Oh, hey! This is a great close combat
weapon....Never, ever let Mara have a 'mech with that and a hatchet..That will lead to tears."
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 09 January 2014, 05:29:19
I am my groups resident Close-Combat Expert in BattleTech. Inside PPC Minimum range is home for me, and in
melee is where the fun is. My group generally gets nervous about me in ANYTHING that is close combat focused.
Approximately what one said when they saw the Snub-nosed PPC was "Oh, hey! This is a great close combat
weapon....Never, ever let Mara have a 'mech with that and a hatchet..That will lead to tears."
:))

Well, that excludes the TSM-equipped NTL-AG Neanderthal with twin Snubbies with Capacitors and three M-Pods for critseeking. Too bad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 09 January 2014, 08:49:15
:))

Well, that excludes the TSM-equipped NTL-AG Neanderthal with twin Snubbies with Capacitors and three M-Pods for critseeking. Too bad.

Yes, yes it does...they only let me off the leash in July and early August on years we are going to GenCon(and keep the
new players away from facing me during that time...)

That said, if these are all tourney legal and can be expected at GenCon, I look forward to being able break through the
World of Cardboard in July and early August!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 10 January 2014, 12:57:38
Some of my Alpha Strike company went liven CSO today.  You've probably already seen them if you own the PDF or DTF book, but I thought I'd share :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 January 2014, 12:36:58
Some of my Alpha Strike company went liven CSO today.  You've probably already seen them if you own the PDF or DTF book, but I thought I'd share :)

 They are beautiful sir. I'm very glad to see you still with the GD. After the 6th bit it. I apologize for not replying sooner. I've been sick.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 12 January 2014, 20:00:06
I have almost twenty of them; I have to stay with them.  Sadly the 7th dies during the blackout/dark ages :(
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 January 2014, 20:48:34
Yea, I think we should both stop picking Lyran military organizations  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 12 January 2014, 23:05:04
Yea, I think we should both stop picking Lyran military organizations  :D

Blood Spirit, Warrior House Ma Tsu-Kai, 6th Lyran Guards, 9th Sword of Light, Free World's Guards,
Wolf's Dragoons Delta Regiment...

I think we should ALL stop picking units in general..it seems they like to die horribly after we pick them...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 13 January 2014, 00:09:00
Start picking some Falcon and Wolf units, already.

And no picking the Falcon Guard, either.  They already get wiped out every other Tuesday.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 13 January 2014, 08:32:51
Lets see, my Hall of Honor includes:

3rd Crucius Lancers (died in a short paragraph in one of the early Jihad books)
3rd Division WoB (okay, like, we all knew they were going to die… but still)
10th Lyran Guards (my early Victor fanboy unit dies I guess in the Jihad… I'd stopped affiliating with them by then)
6th Donegal Guards (overrun by the Falcons, reduced to a company, and merged into the 7th Donegals at some point in the Jihad)
7th Donegal Guards (beat up by Wolves on I believe Tharkad and rolled into another Donegal unit.  Who can I switch my curse too?  8th?)
34th Strike Cluster, Delta Galaxy, Clan Coyote (died in a single sentence in WoR)
Iota Galaxy, Blood Spirits (I made up the tan/orange scheme and they are now gone)
Iron Guards (die in a throwaway line in FM 3145 to some punk CapCon wanna-be's)
The Society (similar to WoB, I knew they'd die, but I'm still building the force anyway.  Suck on NOVA!)
Davion Heavy Guards (it's been a long time since I've actually played the heavy guards, but they've died in the Dark Ages)

Who's still alive?
Gamma Galaxy, Clan Wolf
1st Regulan Hussars (though I've sold all of my units for them and don't play them)
Red Lancers (same as the Regulans, unless they died and were never reconstituted, I haven't checked lol) 

So thats my butchers bill as far as I can figure  :D

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 21 January 2014, 11:54:50
Looks like we got some fox bat love on CSO today.

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6876
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 21 January 2014, 12:31:45
Nice and my favorite LCAF Regiment to boot.   :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 22 January 2014, 07:26:44
 ;D That reminds me, I bought a Cobra at Origins and I have no idea where it is!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 22 January 2014, 08:37:32
;D That reminds me, I bought a Cobra at Origins and I have no idea where it is!

Perfect 'mech for Steiner, too...
Face, Cobra Commander relied on Steiners to do all the organizational heavy lifting(Think about it:
Zamot and Tomaz and Destro were like the very ideal of Steiner Merchants!)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 24 January 2014, 09:11:16
I like the Cobra, especially the -03, but the mini needs new arms. The missile racks are just tiny.
But I would never complain about the firepower this little mech can bring to bear...  >:D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 24 January 2014, 11:21:23
I like the Cobra, especially the -03, but the mini needs new arms. The missile racks are just tiny.
But I would never complain about the firepower this little mech can bring to bear...  >:D

I agree with you there..I would actually almost get one, then put longbow arms on it..I mean,
aren't the mechs about comparable in size?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 January 2014, 12:40:12
Size maybe but not tonage for sure. I like they use the same style launcher as the Zeus. They pair very well together.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 26 January 2014, 01:36:00
Size maybe but not tonage for sure. I like they use the same style launcher as the Zeus. They pair very well together.

Does the Zeus mini still have a patheticly small missile launcher, as well?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Death by Zeus on 26 January 2014, 09:58:21
Does the Zeus mini still have a patheticly small missile launcher, as well?

[Kosh] Yes [Kosh]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 26 January 2014, 15:05:25
Open question for Lyran fandom:

If the Wolf Empire and House Steiner were to be combined into one faction, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 26 January 2014, 15:09:46
Open question for Lyran fandom:

If the Wolf Empire and House Steiner were to be combined into one faction, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Bad thing!

In a military where you must win Trials (often physical ones) to get a higher rank, there would be no social generals.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 26 January 2014, 18:34:46
Bad thing.  The Wolves are not fun at all.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Death by Zeus on 26 January 2014, 19:25:35
As long as the Wolves were given their own Province it would be okay.  No more Dominions, one is good enough.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 26 January 2014, 20:20:32
It would not only be bad but horrible. Let the clans take over another faction. Don't take over one of the original 5 houses.. That wouldbe a huge shame. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 30 January 2014, 16:15:54
The game wouldn't be the same without the 5 original houses.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 January 2014, 17:17:05
True... Well, we could do without the FWL but we've done without a complete FWL for a long time.

 I'm actually glad the wolves settled there this time instead of TPTB crewing away at more of the LC.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 30 January 2014, 23:31:02
Personally I would have found it more interesting if the Wolf Empire bordered the Capellan Confederation as well.  Give them the opportunity of proving whether the Clan sibko system or the Warrior House system was superior.   ^-^
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 31 January 2014, 13:01:22
Also, it would give us a chance to pit the inbred crazies against each other.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Auren on 02 February 2014, 04:15:23
Amen.

So I'm just coming back to the game in general after a looong absence. What's new with Steiner in 3145? The short of it. I do want to get the era reports and such for 3145 but wallet is empty. :(
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 02 February 2014, 04:25:06
Amen.

So I'm just coming back to the game in general after a looong absence. What's new with Steiner in 3145? The short of it. I do want to get the era reports and such for 3145 but wallet is empty. :(

In short: Former territory of the Lyran Commonwealth is now divided among three factions:
How it has happened? Well, the Steiners had an excellent idea - to invite the Clanners ... What could possibly go wrong?   ::)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Auren on 02 February 2014, 06:29:20
...buh. Who? Why? Did they lick the lead window blinds when they were growing up?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 02 February 2014, 08:43:53
...buh. Who? Why? Did they lick the lead window blinds when they were growing up?

For the Wolves, it made sense. The problem was that Melissa II made the great mistake in
BattleTech, the one that NEVER leads to good things: she messed with the Wolves civilians.
Messing with any military's non-combatants in BattleTech is almost guaranteed suicide my
enemy military for the one who cave the order.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Auren on 02 February 2014, 08:47:20
 [metalhealth]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 02 February 2014, 08:51:34
[metalhealth]

Only redeeming thing at the end is: Melissa II did not try to run, or hide, or flee. When the Elementals came
to capture her, she pulled out a pistol and shot them. She made the Elementals grant her an honorable death.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 February 2014, 13:17:43
All this came after she practically bankrupted the realm in a futile attempt to keep Comstar afloat once the Blackout occurred.

There was also a coup attempt by Daniel Brewster (technically, it succeeded for a short time).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Auren on 02 February 2014, 18:25:03
It seems like the days of the Lyran Commonwealth being stable for the most part are at an end.  :-\ At least Melissa II went out with a bang.  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 February 2014, 20:10:26
The stability of the Lyran Commonwealth died on June 19th, 3055.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nerroth on 02 February 2014, 21:42:53
If you want to see the point at which things turned bad for the Lyrans in their dealings with what became the Wolf Empire, it may be worth checking out A Bonfire of Worlds (http://bg.battletech.com/?wpsc-product=bonfire-of-worlds). (The same events are covered in ER:3145, but it might be an idea to read Bonfire first in order to get the as-it-happened version.)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 February 2014, 23:09:38
The stability of the Lyran Commonwealth died on June 19th, 3055.

 I have to agree.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 03 February 2014, 08:23:25
Personally I think the Lyrans would have been better off if they never merged with the Davions. Don´t take this wrong, the Alliance was a good thing and probably saved their bacon during REVIVAL. But I would have taken a leaf out of history´s book and left it at a personal union instead of an attampt at full integration. Much easier to get out of it when things go wrong. (As they did.)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 February 2014, 13:05:39
I would certainly agree. There really wasn't anything good that came out if the union.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 February 2014, 13:06:29
Nearly a proper battlemech...

 http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=5694
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 04 February 2014, 11:10:50
Nearly a proper battlemech...

 http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=5694

That is a nice recon 'mech. Too bad THOMAS HOGARTH!!!! got stuck in one after he lost his Atlas.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Auren on 04 February 2014, 11:30:51
Nah. Personal mobility assistant exoskeleton.   ^-^
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 February 2014, 11:52:49
I really prefer the one with standard PPC's myself.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 February 2014, 12:07:11
There are people who don't?

BTW, are there stats for Hogarth's personal Defiance?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 04 February 2014, 12:13:06
The stability of the Lyran Commonwealth died on June 19th, 3055.

I'd maybe bump that up to the day Andrew Steiner died.  Beginning of the end, ya know?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 February 2014, 12:22:58
Maybe.  But I trace the FedCom Civil War and much of what happened to the realm to the murder of Melissa and Victor's subsequent ascension to a second throne that he wasn't ready for.  If she'd lived, he wouldn't have become Archon until probably the 3070s.  And Kathrine wouldn't have done so much to destabilize the realm- the Falcon border would have been better protected, the social generals would have continued to get phased out in favor of more skilled officers, ect.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 04 February 2014, 12:42:22
Hmmm, I dunno.  Melissa's death and Katherine's damage to the realm are directly related.  For Melissa to not die Katherine would have to not be the type of person she was.  At least, that's how I see it from a storytelling perspective.  From a security perspective it's different, sure.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 February 2014, 14:02:43
There are people who don't?

BTW, are there stats for Hogarth's personal Defiance?

 I don't know but CSO mentions it having a more expencice targeting suite.
 
 Any one know if there's stats?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 05 February 2014, 14:22:40
BTW, are there stats for Hogarth's personal Defiance?
I don't know but CSO mentions it having a more expencice targeting suite.
 
 Any one know if there's stats?

I haven't heard about Hogarth's customized Defiance. I think it's only a joke.

Or is there any canon source?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 05 February 2014, 14:35:31
I believe it's a joke for the eye monocle :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 05 February 2014, 14:38:48
I believe it's a joke for the eye monocle :D
Yeah.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 05 February 2014, 14:39:34
Oh, and yeah, 3T for sure.  You get to run straight ahead and watch your enemies scatter before you and ignore you as you haplessly try to get into kicking range all the while screaming THOMAS HOGARTH! repeatedly. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 February 2014, 14:52:39
Oh, and yeah, 3T for sure.  You get to run straight ahead and watch your enemies scatter before you and ignore you as you haplessly try to get into kicking range all the while screaming THOMAS HOGARTH! repeatedly.

 Ala LEEEEEEEEEROY JENKINS!

 Now I want a computer that'll play MWO and a defiance to go with it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 05 February 2014, 19:40:19
My above experience was exactly what happened.  My Lyran force held the center of the map and our opponents (mainly clan medium second liners scattered to other areas of the board and just ignored poor Hogarth.  I think i kicked on elemental the entire day while the clan player tried to get into shorter range with some Capellan allies.)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 February 2014, 22:53:58
Clanner with Cappy alies? Nasty.
 Sounds like a fun game.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 06 February 2014, 17:16:33
We usually bring a 6k force and try to divide it up by factions if possible; why it was Falcon/Lyran/Cappie vs Raven second line/WoB/Davion I don't remember  :D

So I guess my post didn't make sense.  They were my Capellan allies the Raven player tried to close in on them to negate stealth and gauss rifles IIRC
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 February 2014, 23:44:41
Sounds fun. I'm looking through the mechs I have left and realized I don't have one.. Weird since I'm such a huge Lyran fan
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 07 February 2014, 13:14:06
Sounds fun. I'm looking through the mechs I have left and realized I don't have one.. Weird since I'm such a huge Lyran fan

Not weird....it is a Defiance...and Lyrans are not that fond of death traps.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 February 2014, 15:15:02
Not weird....it is a Defiance...and Lyrans are not that fond of death traps.

 Have you seen the 3025 Zeus?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 07 February 2014, 20:52:33
Have you seen the 3025 Zeus?

Yep, but at least it isn't the Jagermech--the Zeus can at least pretend to be useful.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 08 February 2014, 10:27:25
Yeah, run that LRM dry before closing under 10 hexes and you'll be a lot better off.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 08 February 2014, 19:26:23
Yeah, run that LRM dry before closing under 10 hexes and you'll be a lot better off.

Yeah...run the LRM and AC/5 dry, then fight with the Large and forward medium..it is not really
as bad as a Defiance...And, in a world with Targeting Computers, having all that ammo in one
location without CASE is just asking for that location to be targeted, then peppered with SRMs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 08 February 2014, 19:43:06
Yeah...run the LRM and AC/5 dry, then fight with the Large and forward medium..it is not really
as bad as a Defiance...And, in a world with Targeting Computers, having all that ammo in one
location without CASE is just asking for that location to be targeted, then peppered with SRMs.

The good news is, the world doesn't include targeting computers.

Unless of course you play post-3025.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 08 February 2014, 20:02:29
Mara was talking about the Defiance.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 09 February 2014, 02:37:02
Yeah...run the LRM and AC/5 dry, then fight with the Large and forward medium..it is not really
as bad as a Defiance...And, in a world with Targeting Computers, having all that ammo in one
location without CASE is just asking for that location to be targeted, then peppered with SRMs.

 Its why I'll usually take the Zeus 6T over the 6S. Much more staying power and more damage output. The 6T can run and fire the lrm and ppc all day... Until that lrm ammo runs out. Then you close.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 09 February 2014, 03:40:43
Its why I'll usually take the Zeus 6T over the 6S. Much more staying power and more damage output. The 6T can run and fire the lrm and ppc all day... Until that lrm ammo runs out. Then you close.

Oh, I prefer the 6T as well. However, either model is WAY more survivable in their day then the Defiance.
In the era the Defiance was designed and built in, it is a death trap. The Zeus isn't because, while it has
decent ammo bins, its ammo weapons are long ranged weapons, so it is going to be fighting stand-off
ranges with those until the ammo bins run dry. The Defiance's ammo weapons are mid-to-short range,
so it is a) going to be in close, b) CASE existed when it was designed, and c) it was designed in an era
with Targeting Computers, and so..its lack of CASE is pretty much inexcusable unless it was designed to
be a 'mech to assign unpopular 'Mechwarriors to so they could be killed.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 09 February 2014, 11:52:06
Well, it was given to THOMAS HOGARTH!!!! As a trophy/ prize. So... Take that as you will  >:D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Auren on 10 February 2014, 01:17:08
The good news is, the world doesn't include targeting computers.

Unless of course you play post-3025.

What if you're playing the trials for the Dragoon Compromise?  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 10 February 2014, 18:28:46
Anything clan in that time could have a targeting computer...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 10 February 2014, 18:48:24
Anything clan in that time could have a targeting computer...

But it wouldn't be targeting any CASEless target begging for an ammo explosion.

And that's assuming you're even bothering with the homeworlds in the first place.  If you're playing a 3025 setting game, odds are you're doing so explicity so that you don't have to deal with your gaming group munchkins always choosing Clan mechs ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 10 February 2014, 20:03:56
But it wouldn't be targeting any CASEless target begging for an ammo explosion.

And that's assuming you're even bothering with the homeworlds in the first place.  If you're playing a 3025 setting game, odds are you're doing so explicity so that you don't have to deal with your gaming group munchkins always choosing Clan mechs ;)

No, other way around.  So I don't have to deal with Inner Sphere munchkins flooding the field with dice rolls...err... units!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 10 February 2014, 20:04:57
But it wouldn't be targeting any CASEless target begging for an ammo explosion.

And that's assuming you're even bothering with the homeworlds in the first place.  If you're playing a 3025 setting game, odds are you're doing so explicity so that you don't have to deal with your gaming group munchkins always choosing Clan mechs ;)

Or, of course, your group plays all eras, and the current game is a succession wars era game.  However, what does
calling anyone who uses a Clan 'mech have to do with the simple fact that the Defiance is a death trap in the era it
was designed, and not just because of Clan TC equipped 'mechs, but also because of Combine, Wobble, and Marik
TC equiped 'mechs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 10 February 2014, 21:21:48
Eh, it was a smart move in the short term by Defiance. Short term... They blow quicker. Long term...even the dumbest supply officer will soon learn not to order them but by then DI has made their money on them. They'll also be forgiven because of all their other great units.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 10 February 2014, 22:05:12
Well, there's also the fact that I don't think the creator used the design rules before writing about it, forcing some creative work to make it a legal design....
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 10 February 2014, 22:31:56
Most probable.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 10 February 2014, 23:50:07
Yeah, I always wondered about that.  When Operation Excalibur came out, I tried to build one in Mechwarrior 2 using a Mad Cat and Clantech was only able to after dumping a huge amount of armor, so I was completely baffled by how it could have been done with IS tech.  Didn't realize it was supposed to hit 86 kph using TSM.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 February 2014, 16:52:34
I can just see THOMAS HOGARTH!!! Now.
 
 My word it's warm in here. I have to admit the air conditioning is NOT working well. Hmmm, what's this flashing green button do? TOO FAST! TOO FAST!!!!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 11 February 2014, 22:53:59
Well, there's also the fact that I don't think the creator used the design rules before writing about it, forcing some creative work to make it a legal design....

This comment has been rattling around in my head all day, and I remembered a previous discussion involving the Grey Death novels that I'd had a long time ago- I don't think William Kieth was actually familiar with Battletech tabletop rules when he was writing novels for the game.  At the very least he was blatantly ignoring them, given his tendency to portray the AC 5 as a supreme god-gun, his referring to mechs like the Marauder and (even more outrageously) the Cyclops as being extremely well armored designs, and heck, his calling the Stalker a bird-walker mech.  And all of those were just from Operation Excalibur.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 February 2014, 23:06:30
Well... You're probably right. The thing is.,. I n 3025  the majority or mechs were lights and mediums do a mad and cyclops were pretty well armored compared to them. Plus st one time the AC 5 was the ac.
 Times change... Rules change... Thinks are made better than they are for dramatic effect.

 So has any one used the gauntlet yet?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 11 February 2014, 23:12:48
I've used the Prime and B against the Bot and let the bot use them against me.  They are a little peculiar, but there's a lot of potential.  Bot can't drive them or anything else for crap, but it does struggle worse with them I guess.  Some finesse needed
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 11 February 2014, 23:12:48
Yeah, it's a fun mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 February 2014, 23:44:03
I should get the new version of MM and try it.

 Have you guys used the one with a tsemp? What's it used for? Shooting down drop ships?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 12 February 2014, 15:34:32
Well, not that used to the new tech, but I have an other question.

Objectives: LA mentioned, that primitives where build all around the lyran state to help bolster its beaten troops. But I can't find any hint what happened to those primitives after the Wobbies got their ass kicked. Where they scrapped instantly as better standard battlemech were available again? Where they relegated to militias close to the periphery? Or where they updated and used to bolster the beaten LCAF?
And by the way: what happend to those factories producing them? Some were already on somewhat remote planets (production on Aur? Never heard of it before...). On the other hand it would have been a bonus if not all your eggs (e.g. mech production lines) are in the same basket.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 February 2014, 15:45:06
My guess ,and this is a guess, is that they were either mothballed or sent to militias in backwater places to help bolster their to&e.

 As far as the factories... Probably went back to producing agro mechs
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 12 February 2014, 16:17:15
My guess ,and this is a guess, is that they were either mothballed or sent to militias in backwater places to help bolster their to&e.

 As far as the factories... Probably went back to producing agro mechs

With the exception of the Pathfinder, this is the case.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 February 2014, 22:50:37
The shame is the primitive gladiator is a really nice mech that is really good infantry and vee support mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 12 February 2014, 23:02:23
There are plenty of vehicle/infantry support mechs in the Inner Sphere already, though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 February 2014, 23:13:59
Still being produced?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 13 February 2014, 08:19:40
Or still around. Someone still makes spare parts.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 26 February 2014, 12:03:05
Get some CSO love. A beautiful job by Psyco on one if my favorite mechs

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6894
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 26 February 2014, 13:50:39
Nice.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 26 February 2014, 16:24:19
The paint scheme has been canonized just a month ago.  :o

Are there still other lyran units that don't have their own paint scheme?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 26 February 2014, 16:42:53
Yup; mainly smaller commands added as regional militias and such IIRC.  3085 and tun 3145 came pretty quick, at least as far as getting units and schemes created and painted
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 21 April 2014, 06:59:12
Looks like we got some love on CSO Friday. I'm just wondering what that is coming out of the AC...

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6920
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 22 April 2014, 06:44:15
Looks like we got some love on CSO Friday. I'm just wondering what that is coming out of the AC...

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6920

Hey! It's been modified with a Puke Projection Cannon!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 22 April 2014, 07:18:05
Lol no kidding.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 22 April 2014, 08:24:15
Have you guys used the one with a tsemp? What's it used for? Shooting down drop ships?

No, it is certainly not for use against dropships.  Not if you want it to work, anyway.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 22 April 2014, 15:07:54
Wow... I asked that over 2 months ago. Thanks for the speedy reply.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 April 2014, 13:16:47
More Lyran love!

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6923

 My unit too. JAL did a good job.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 26 April 2014, 22:14:45
Always good to see Lyran 'mechs.

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 29 May 2014, 08:57:24
More Lyran love. I do like the look of the Jager units.

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6931
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 29 May 2014, 11:30:03
I like the Jager style, but yellow and white isn't, IMO, a good color combination.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 29 May 2014, 21:21:16
I like the Jager style, but yellow and white isn't, IMO, a good color combination.

Yeah, the contrast is poor.  :(
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 30 May 2014, 14:14:30
Honestly, light grey on white background of Alarion Jägers is not much better.

And I could add that I have always felt that the writers could have shown a little more effort when creating very similar liveries for Skye Jägers and Donegal Jägers.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 30 May 2014, 14:37:10
Honestly, light grey on white background of Alarion Jägers is not much better.

And I could add that I have always felt that the writers could have shown a little more effort when creating very similar liveries for Skye Jägers and Donegal Jägers.

I'm pretty sure someone just came up with a painted miniature, showed it to TPTB while they were preoccupied, and they said "Sure, yeah, looks good" ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 31 May 2014, 09:57:34
I like them. I think it makes them stand out. Wasn't that Katy's plan anyway? Being a royalist I'll go with what she thought was good.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 31 May 2014, 16:24:38
Honestly, light grey on white background of Alarion Jägers is not much better.

And I could add that I have always felt that the writers could have shown a little more effort when creating very similar liveries for Skye Jägers and Donegal Jägers.

I'm pretty sure the Donegal Jaeger color scheme was kind of a last minute "author's saving throw."  From FM: Lyran Alliance:

"Each Jaeger regiment has a signature color that dominates itss paint scheme.  This is gray for Alarion 'Mechs, green for Bolan, Yellow for Coventry, white for Donegal and blue for Skye. A distinctive white checked pattern overlays the left side of the 'Mechs and vehicles."  (Hartford and Trossen, p. 48)

Basically, I'm pretty sure the Donegal paint scheme arose because this bad boy went to print, and then, later, these guys realized, "Oh crap, our paint scheme for Donegal is WHITE ON WHITE."

"Wait, what?  Okay, we can fix this.  Blue is the Lyran color, right?"

"Uh, Skye has that for the Jaegers."

"BALLS!  Uh, okay, the Donegal Jaegers will have BLUE checks on the left side, and just solid white on the right."

"Won't people get confused?"

"SHUT UP!"

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Diamondshark on 31 May 2014, 18:50:17
Yep, that sounds like something the Lyrans would do in-universe, as well. Especially if the meeting to decide the paint schemes was making them late for a cocktail social.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 31 May 2014, 18:57:00
Yep, that sounds like something the Lyrans would do in-universe, as well. Especially if the meeting to decide the paint schemes was making them late for a cocktail social.

Oh man, can I change my post so that it's JUST in-universe?  Because that's even BETTER.   ;D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 June 2014, 00:06:05
It sounds like a misprint more than anything. You guys do realize this is fiction right? Authors screw things up.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 June 2014, 00:24:35
Yeah, but because all the stuff is written from an in-universe perspective, we blame Comstar for it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 02 June 2014, 07:37:40
Yeah, but because all the stuff is written from an in-universe perspective, we blame Comstar for it.

Okay, new theory.

Adept:  So yeah, I got this info on the paint jobs for the Jaeger units.

Precentor:  Very good, very good.  Um...

Adept:  Um, what?

Precentor:  Are you SURE this is right?

Adept:  Of course!

Precentor:  Are you POSITIVE?

Adept:  Yes...why?

Precentor:  Well, you have the Donegal Jaeger paintjob as being white.

Adept:  Uh huh.

Precentor:  With white checks.

Adept:  Totally!  I saw them patrolling around the Donegal HPG!

Precentor:  What sort of Mechs were they using?

Adept:  Well, there was a Black Knight, a Shootist, a Beowulf...

Precentor:  Adept.

Adept:  Yes?

Precentor:  I think it's time I tell you about this promotion I'm giving you.  There's a position open in Niops...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 June 2014, 11:29:05
Blakeists masquerading as C*...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 June 2014, 22:05:34
There's a difference between them and the rest of Comstar?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Auren on 07 June 2014, 21:46:09
Yeah; one overcharges you for your real time video communications between your Mistress and the other foists on all sorts of 'Peace be with you' pamphlets.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 09 June 2014, 11:52:33
Yeah, but because all the stuff is written from an in-universe perspective, we blame Comstar for it.

We shouldn't.  Several pieces are written from the perspective of attributed writer.  Unless, of course, we assume it is transmited by Comstar and subject to manipulation.  If that is the case, that takes the unreliable narrator device to absurd levels in which nothing can be taken at face value.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 09 June 2014, 22:20:34
It's like people don't read the warning I put in my signature.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 09 June 2014, 22:27:50
It's like people don't read the warning I put in my signature.

I really should put your warning in MY signature, except replace "sarcasm" with "complete and utter nonsense."
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 10 June 2014, 09:46:34
It's like people don't read the warning I put in my signature.

Perhaps Irony is a better substitute.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 10 June 2014, 10:01:06
Irony is for hipsters.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 10 June 2014, 10:39:54
I think a well tailored uniform with gold shoulder boards and cord, a shiny brimed military hat at a jaunty angle and lots of medals on my chest is pretty hip.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Alexander Knight on 10 June 2014, 13:50:48
Irony is for hipsters.

http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/comic/your-homework-is-to-go-rewatch-incredibles

HIPSTERS!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 10 June 2014, 19:08:21
Sorry, but I was ironic before it was cool.

And I wasn't ironic about it!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 11 June 2014, 03:50:28
It's like people don't read the warning I put in my signature.
I don't/didn't. I've signatures turned off, though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 12 June 2014, 08:03:41
Question for the Elsies!

What would be the typical noble rank for a Lyran planetary ruler?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 June 2014, 08:09:26
Emperor at the very least ( 13th warrior reference ) governor general I think... Don't have my books handy
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 12 June 2014, 09:15:40
Question for the Elsies!

What would be the typical noble rank for a Lyran planetary ruler?
Duke - for important worlds likie Coventry or Tharkad
Count/Margrave/Baron - increasing orders of planetary size and importance.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 June 2014, 10:19:27
I thought Duke was more for regional governors.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 12 June 2014, 11:14:04
Duke - for important worlds likie Coventry or Tharkad
Count/Margrave/Baron - increasing orders of planetary size and importance.

I agree. Perhaps only a small detail: You could use German ranks. We are talking about the Steiner.  ;)

duke - Herzog/Herzogin
count - Graf/Gräfin
margrave - Markgraf/Markgräfin
baron - Baron/Baroness or Freiherr/Freifrau
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 12 June 2014, 17:18:31
Emperor at the very least ( 13th warrior reference ) governor general I think... Don't have my books handy

Very good! Even if lines like that apparently made him stop acting for more than a decade.

The old MW2 RPG book has some guidelines and I'm thinking duke is probably right with a count ruling each continent or important area under him/her.
Duke seems right for an important planet but then Grayson Caryle was made a baron when he was given Glengarry - the lowest rung of nobility.
So it could depend on the actual noble themselves - are they from an ancient line (probably a duke) or from the ranks/commoners (prob more like baron).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 12 June 2014, 22:22:32
Dukes rule an entire world or major interstellar industry, the relative wealth and prosperity of that world or industry defines the duke's importance relative to other dukes.  Some of the oldest Duchies from the earliest days of the Lyran Commonwealth control (or at least have a lot of influence over) a number of worlds.  Can only be awarded by the Archon.

Below the Dukes are the landgraves and grafs, whose power base and landholdings cover a continent, large island or major local industry.  The title of graf has also been awarded to individuals who act as a liaison between a world, its ruling duke and the Archon.  It is also given to government mediators to give them standing when mediating local disputes.  Awarded by either the Archon or the local duke.

The non-hereditary title of Margrave is awarded by the Archon to generals in command of a military theater granting them full military and executive authority over the worlds along a state border, answerable only to the Archon.

The lowest rank of hereditary peerage in the Commonwealth is the Baron.  Awarded (and rescinded) by Archons and local dukes as they see fit, Baronies can range in size from a small city to an entire world, based on the recipient's political influence, other political considerations and local resources.  They are also frequently awarded with famous prizes for achievements.

Glengarry is a comparatively poor planet thus granting Grayson Carlyle the title of baron made sense.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 13 June 2014, 01:11:31
But everybody drinks their export!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 28 June 2014, 09:37:23
So what do you make of the FR:2765?

Interesting new formations in there, the Commonwealth class Light Cruiser and I'd never realised how big the Lyran Guards were.

Only let down for me was no Tamar Jaegers.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Øystein on 29 June 2014, 05:22:21
So what do you make of the FR:2765?

Interesting new formations in there, the Commonwealth class Light Cruiser and I'd never realised how big the Lyran Guards were.

Only let down for me was no Tamar Jaegers.
Considering the Tamar Jaegers wasn't founded until around 2866, I dunno why you'd expect them in 2765..

You might have meant the Tamar Tigers, but they were a private unit of the Duke of Tamar, and not part of the LCAF (even if they worked with the LCAF).



Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 29 June 2014, 06:11:05
Considering the Tamar Jaegers wasn't founded until around 2866, I dunno why you'd expect them in 2765..

Ah, my mistake, i thought they were earlier than that.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 29 June 2014, 09:06:57
You might have meant the Tamar Tigers, but they were a private unit of the Duke of Tamar, and not part of the LCAF (even if they worked with the LCAF).


...who squeezed a bit into a sidebar.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Vehrec on 02 July 2014, 23:10:29
So are there any examples of Lyran court fashion that would evoke say, the extreme 'model warship' hairstyles of some late 18th century French fashion?

I want to know this for Reasons.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 July 2014, 23:19:51
I think you'd find more French fashion related stuff on New Avalon than Tharkad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 03 July 2014, 06:52:52
I think you'd find more French fashion related stuff on New Avalon than Tharkad.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Vehrec on 03 July 2014, 09:13:56
But the Lyrans have more money, and want to flaunt it, don't they?  And that's part of the reason for having a jumpship in your hair, to show off how much time you could spend sitting in a chair having five people build this thing.  It's not necessarily a French thing, it's a wealth and power thing.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 03 July 2014, 09:39:37
But the Lyrans have more money, and want to flaunt it, don't they?  And that's part of the reason for having a jumpship in your hair, to show off how much time you could spend sitting in a chair having five people build this thing.  It's not necessarily a French thing, it's a wealth and power thing.

But there is nothing that suggests that the Lyrans particularly favor French fashion over any other fashion style (although they probably avoid Japanese fashion  ;)).  One month they could favor French, the next Italian.  By the time fashion trends make it to the outer regions, they are probably already passe in the more central regions.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Vehrec on 03 July 2014, 10:02:26
Well of course Lyran fashon favors Lyran styles, that's obvious.  I'm just looking for examples of outrageous Haute Couture that I can plop onto a merchant I've created to emphasize her eccentricity.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 July 2014, 10:32:50
The only examples we have, in pictures and in book , don't show that. All we have are pretty conservative styles of hair.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Vehrec on 03 July 2014, 12:07:34
That's actually rather disappointing...  But I suppose if the character is meant to be a touch eccentric and out-there, then it just gives an even clearer indication of her true madness. :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 03 July 2014, 12:25:52
One of the civil war novels(Patriots and Tyrants?) had a scene where Katherine Steiner-Davion was looking over her extensive Christmas gift pile and found a dress made by a certain planetary leader who was loyal to her. The dress bared one shoulder but was otherwise pretty traditional but her thought processes indicated that it was too shocking for the Lyran courts but more befitting for her Davion loyalists. Possible insight into styles on both sides of the border.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 03 July 2014, 16:00:34
Well of course Lyran fashon favors Lyran styles, that's obvious.  I'm just looking for examples of outrageous Haute Couture that I can plop onto a merchant I've created to emphasize her eccentricity.

The Warrior trilogy mentions that the Lyrans have some pretty over the top make up standards. The character mentions eye make up rolling off the eye and down the cheek in a flowi pattern "in th Lyran style".

At one point in a later novel, Victor is shocked to her of a Tharkad actress using the banned product "ice fire" to keep her skin looking young.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 03 July 2014, 18:27:05
You know, it occurs to me that given that the Lyran Commonwealth has a population in the hundreds of billions, it probably doesn't have one fashion standard- it probably varies heavily by planet.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 03 July 2014, 19:15:11
The only "Lyran Style" that I can recall from the fiction is wearing a wristwatch with the face one the inside, not the outside, of the wrist.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Vehrec on 03 July 2014, 19:42:04
You know, it occurs to me that given that the Lyran Commonwealth has a population in the hundreds of billions, it probably doesn't have one fashion standard- it probably varies heavily by planet.

This makes perfect sense, so I guess I was asking about Thrakad Court Fashion, or whatever the equivalent is...hmmm, but it seems it could be nearly anything given the limited information we have.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 03 July 2014, 20:12:29
You're talking about Germanic merchant princes to whom money is no object: think over, over, over the top. Massive trains that go on for metres, elaborate headdresses and hat, weaving jewels and stones into a lady's wear, each worth enough to buy a house, barely there dressed of gauze covered by giant pelts of furry animals.

Operation Excalibur makes mention of "military dress" often being in on Tharkad - I imagine many courtiers would tart themselves up in faux-uniforms, complete richly worked braided jackets with medals, chains, sashes and badges. "Oh that? Something I picked up for coming first class in polo, old boy!"

The same book also mentions metals or almost armoured plates being worked into men's clothing - almost armoured

Capes, cloaks and mantles would prob be in a well (it gets cold on Tharkad!)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 July 2014, 20:42:18
I think thqt stackpole books usually mention that tharkad starts fashions and alot of other planets emulate them after the fact. (Which may not be brilliant. Since Winter is always the season on tharkad! Spring/winter collection!)

Though battletech suffers from a little bit of "planetville" I suppose I should link the tvtrope.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 03 July 2014, 22:13:51
One of the civil war novels(Patriots and Tyrants?) had a scene where Katherine Steiner-Davion was looking over her extensive Christmas gift pile and found a dress made by a certain planetary leader who was loyal to her. The dress bared one shoulder but was otherwise pretty traditional but her thought processes indicated that it was too shocking for the Lyran courts but more befitting for her Davion loyalists. Possible insight into styles on both sides of the border.

As I recall, the shock was that it was too daring for the pure and innocent persona she used on Tharkad, not that it was too shocking and daring in general.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 03 July 2014, 22:50:50
I think you are right, I just thought that type of persona was somewhat more typical on Tharkad over New Avalon. One being more merchant princes while the other is more military centered.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 03 July 2014, 23:09:37
If anything, you'd think that the martial society would be the one with the more conservative fashion sense.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: foxbat on 05 July 2014, 04:18:21
This is what's being referred to

(http://sourdaine.org/10_Coiffure2.jpg)

To be honest, I don't see how a jumpship or dropship shape could be suitable for this kind of extravagancy, but well, you are all allowed to show more imagination than me.  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 05 July 2014, 10:24:34
This is what's being referred to

(http://sourdaine.org/10_Coiffure2.jpg)

To be honest, I don't see how a jumpship or dropship shape could be suitable for this kind of extravagancy, but well, you are all allowed to show more imagination than me.  ;)

Definitely looks like something from New Avalon ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Vehrec on 05 July 2014, 13:46:22
This is what's being referred to

(http://sourdaine.org/10_Coiffure2.jpg)

To be honest, I don't see how a jumpship or dropship shape could be suitable for this kind of extravagancy, but well, you are all allowed to show more imagination than me.  ;)

Look man, it's obvious that if you build a 1/1000 scale model of an Invader or a Monolith, with it's solar sail deployed, and mount it in some fancy lady's hair, it's going to turn heads.  Especially if the solar sail is a photovoltaic generator that turns on the lights and makes the engines glow like it's thrusting.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 05 July 2014, 14:47:54
Look man, it's obvious that if you build a 1/1000 scale model of an Invader or a Monolith, with it's solar sail deployed, and mount it in some fancy lady's hair, it's going to turn heads.  Especially if the solar sail is a photovoltaic generator that turns on the lights and makes the engines glow like it's thrusting.

I thought that was part of the Word of Blake Uniform.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: foxbat on 06 July 2014, 05:31:10
Definitely looks like something from New Avalon ;)

Maybe, but would Kath... errrm, Katrina have loved it?  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 06 July 2014, 07:12:28
Maybe, but would Kath... errrm, Katrina have loved it?  ;)
You had a right the first time, her name is Katherine. She was just trying to cash in on her grandmamma's popularity and success.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 06 July 2014, 17:20:36
Maybe, but would Kath... errrm, Katrina have loved it?  ;)

No, our beloved Katrina Steiner-Davion would not have indulged in this silliness. It would have detracted from her image.

Now Victor might have worn a toy Masakari on his head.....
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 03 October 2014, 14:18:47
This question has probably been tackled to death, but I figured I'd ask it anyways. Since we Lyrans love our quad BAs, I was wondering if anyone could explain the mechanics of how they are operated? I always picture a person driving/piloting it more than 'wearing' it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 October 2014, 14:30:15
I saw a cutaway somewhere that showed exactly that.. I wish I could remember where though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 03 October 2014, 14:42:28
This question has probably been tackled to death, but I figured I'd ask it anyways. Since we Lyrans love our quad BAs, I was wondering if anyone could explain the mechanics of how they are operated? I always picture a person driving/piloting it more than 'wearing' it.

Hello!

This thread may be interesting for you:
How do you fit a man in Quad BA? (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33491.0.html)

Personally, I imagine it as something ... Do you remember TRON? Do you remember those Lightcycles? So something like that.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 03 October 2014, 15:34:50
Hello!

This thread may be interesting for you:
How do you fit a man in Quad BA? (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33491.0.html)

Personally, I imagine it as something ... Do you remember TRON? Do you remember those Lightcycles? So something like that.

Awesome! Thanks for the link. I can definitely see the lightcycle-type controls, that seems to make sense at least in my head.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 03 October 2014, 20:34:16
The Fenris is driven sitting down, like a go-cart, legs out in front. The Rottweiler is driven by a pilot on their stomach, like a hand glider.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 03 October 2014, 20:39:57
Fenrir.  I'm pretty sure you just sit in the command couch to pilot a Fenris.  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 03 October 2014, 20:42:08
Whoops!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 October 2014, 11:48:14
I was looking at that very nicely painted up 13th LG force in the miniatures section. Dies any one else here have a nicely painted up Lyran force like that?  I've sold most of my miniatures since I stopped playing last year but I still have a bunch of Lyran mechs. Matter of fact, it's really all I kept. That and some MH and CBS mechs...

 Any one else?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Daishi411 on 05 October 2014, 16:54:49
Hey Hengist, I didn't know you stopped playing!! I just started up again(ish)!!!!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 October 2014, 18:17:46
Hey bro. Yea, just no time. I'm the Baron of our local SCA group now, so I have to dedicate my time to that. I noticed you haven't been in in a long time. I was going to send you an email but I don't have it. Hope all is well.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ShockaTime on 05 October 2014, 19:14:01
Hey bro. Yea, just no time. I'm the Baron of our local SCA group now, so I have to dedicate my time to that. I noticed you haven't been in in a long time. I was going to send you an email but I don't have it. Hope all is well.

That's a big deal Hengist! Congrats O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 October 2014, 06:44:05
Thanks, it really is.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 06 October 2014, 17:38:42
Congrats Hengist!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 October 2014, 17:54:14
Thanks Top  :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Excalibur_83 on 16 October 2014, 17:15:38
Hey, forgive me if this has been discussed before, but i have a question for all you Steiner-philes out there.  After the 10th Lyran Guards were wiped out in the Jihad, why were they never rebuilt?  Was it because theychose to stay in the Fed Suns and are therefore viewed as traitors?  Was this why the whole brigade fell out of favor by the Dark Age?  It has been several generations since then, perhaps it is time to let the civil war go.  Though the Lyran's current situation would preclude rebuilding much of anything.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 16 October 2014, 17:42:14
For questions of supposition like that one it's probably best to ask the writers. We have no idea why they choose Ti rebuild some and not others. It's like that for all factions.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 16 October 2014, 18:34:40
Well, outside of Victor's connection they were historically pretty unspectacular. Few even remember the Thundering Elephants.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 16 October 2014, 19:22:20
Yeah, the 6th Guards are the ones who should be rebuilt!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 16 October 2014, 21:56:32
Well, outside of Victor's connection they were historically pretty unspectacular. Few even remember the Thundering Elephants.

Well historically it was the proving ground for Steiner-blooded officers who were in line for the Lyran Archonship.  At least nine future Archons have commanded the Tenth Lyran Guards over the centuries.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 17 October 2014, 01:03:35
Yeah, the 6th Guards are the ones who should be rebuilt!

 Yea! 6th Donegal guards!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 19 October 2014, 21:28:01
Yea! 6th Donegal guards!

Seconded! :D

Or the 7th Donegal...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 20 October 2014, 07:00:39
Yeah, the 6th Guards are the ones who should be rebuilt!

The Saucy Sixth Forever!  O0  :)  8)  {>{>
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 October 2014, 11:41:10
Seconded! :D

Or the 7th Donegal...

 I'm good with either...  ;D kampfguppe white hawks!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 20 October 2014, 11:59:03
I was looking at that very nicely painted up 13th LG force in the miniatures section. Dies any one else here have a nicely painted up Lyran force like that?  I've sold most of my miniatures since I stopped playing last year but I still have a bunch of Lyran mechs. Matter of fact, it's really all I kept. That and some MH and CBS mechs...

 Any one else?

I have like twenty 7th Donegals I painted for Alpha Strike.  Those are my largest force for BattleTech.  I have a Star of Wolves, uh, and after that it's like ones and twos of factions and forces...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 October 2014, 14:09:44
Lol... CSO artist with that few mechs... Well, I can understand that actually.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 20 October 2014, 14:35:53
Well, I have a lot of miniatures... just nothing painted.  I end up selling it all to fund other things  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 October 2014, 14:48:16
Yea, I did too about 6 months ago. Still kept about 50 or so of my minies. I should pm you on Facebook about some commissions... I'm not good doing the knotwork on the minies and Ihave some Steiner mechs that need painting.

 Oh, with the new addition you may not have the time... Just thought about that.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 20 October 2014, 15:14:15
Yea, I did too about 6 months ago. Still kept about 50 or so of my minies. I should pm you on Facebook about some commissions... I'm not good doing the knotwork on the minies and Ihave some Steiner mechs that need painting.

 Oh, with the new addition you may not have the time... Just thought about that.


I will say though that the knot work stuff is pretty intense on my time!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: worktroll on 20 October 2014, 17:17:58
Dies any one else here have a nicely painted up Lyran force like that?

Will 8th Donegal Guards (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/8th-donegal-battalion-force-c-3100-completed-at-last!/msg875939/#msg875939) do? With a side order of Gulltoppr medium tank (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/lyran-medium-combat-vehicle-the-gulltoppr/msg890857/#msg890857)?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 October 2014, 23:35:37
Yup, those will do  O0
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: foxbat on 21 October 2014, 00:57:16
 [copper]
Gentlemen, let's please cut all the hints on commission work discussion. We are standing  right on the line as it is.
 [copper]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 23 October 2014, 06:48:58
I have a hunch that this might interest some of you.  ;)

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/found-another-fan-tro/msg978422/#msg978422
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 December 2014, 11:37:18
frohe weihnachten
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 23 December 2014, 13:28:34
und ein gutes neues Jahr
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 23 December 2014, 13:47:29
And Happy Hanukkah
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: foxbat on 24 December 2014, 07:04:38
und ein gutes neues Jahr

Noch ein bischen zu früh dafür, nächste Woche wird es perfekt sein ;)

Jedenfalls

(http://www.ufc-wacker.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/FroheWeihnachten.jpg)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: BigDuke66 on 24 December 2014, 17:53:20
Frohe Weihnachten!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 24 December 2014, 19:18:18
Frohe Weihnachten! (Except to the Falcons  ;) )
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 December 2014, 00:39:26
Frohe Weihnachten! (Except to the Falcons  ;) )

YEA!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 December 2014, 11:57:33
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=7102

Looks like we got some CSO love
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 January 2015, 00:41:10
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=7113

Looks like we got more love. That primitive Banshee looks great.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: BigDuke66 on 14 January 2015, 21:09:40
I have put this already on the CGB thread but I 'm also interested how the Steiner Faction sees it.

I was going through the products from last year on the BT wiki and the product list showed that the number of products released has again declined, 2014 looks rather thin compared to previous years.
This and a thread(http://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-lead-developers/storyline/) in the "Ask the Lead Developers" section made me think about the direction BT is going.

Personally I didn't take a look into anything of the DA and only got a bit info about it by things that were mentioned on this board, and so I have the feeling of a huge gap ahead that I can't bridge, the few books that cover anything of these 50 years seem to give rather tiny info compared to the timeframe they cover and that the Steiner gets it right in the face in this DA is also not helpful in any way.
Any future product that lays after the DA(like the product that is set in 3150-3151 that Herb mentions in the other thread) wouldn't really attract me unless it might be a book that sums up the DA.

So with this darkness ahead I rather look forward to any publication that would cover the past instead the future of House Steiner.
But it looks like the sausage is eaten from both ends, well as long as the past and glorious times of House Steiner are covered too I don't mind but still a way of bridging to and over the DA would be welcomed, I don't what to stay behind like the guys back in the 90's that refused to acknowledge the Clan Invasion and are still "trapped" in 3025, at least I can understand them now somehow.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 15 January 2015, 10:38:48
I'm not a huge fan of the dark age stuff. I've got plenty if games to play ore time jump. Some of the mechs are cool but some of the story line is just odd to me.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 14 February 2015, 02:00:04
i have a game coming up soon. Set in the year 3039. It'll be against the Capellans in a city. the premise is 7 operatives in the city. you have to capture/liberate 4 of the 7 and get them off board. Only infantry may capture/liberate. 1500 BV2, pilots are payed for in the BV. Speciatly ammo is OKed. Also, iconic units only.

Lyran force is:
Griffin 1S
Centurion AH
Zeus 6T
Banshee 3M
thunderbolt 5SS
commando 2D
 
2 Karnov transports with 5 HE bombs each
1 Karnov AC with5 HE bombs
2 warrior H-7A with flak rounds

4 flatbed trucks
2 manticores
2 lrm carriers

2 srm jump infantry
4 foot with autorifle
4 foot with lrm/autorifles primary.

what's your thoughts. I know he'll be taking karnovs also, the Warriors are there to take care of them.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 14 February 2015, 12:02:22
Specialty ammo? Swap out that BNC-3M for a 3Q. Especially in a city. That AC/20's gonna scare everything.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 14 February 2015, 13:41:39
i have a game coming up soon. Set in the year 3039. It'll be against the Capellans in a city. the premise is 7 operatives in the city. you have to capture/liberate 4 of the 7 and get them off board. Only infantry may capture/liberate. 1500 BV2, pilots are payed for in the BV. Speciatly ammo is OKed. Also, iconic units only.
what's your thoughts.
Iconic units? BNC-3M is not a Steiner 'Mech? Also, I would expect to see CN9-AH in Marik or Davion force, rather than Steiner.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 14 February 2015, 14:19:20
The Steiners vastly prefer the 3S variant of the Banshee.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 14 February 2015, 14:25:26
The Steiners vastly prefer the 3S variant of the Banshee.
Surely, but it costs more BV.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 15 February 2015, 17:01:05
So, I've got a question for you guys about a hypothetical situation, and felt like this is the best place to ask it.

The 3145 Lyran Commonwealth takes a BattleMech regiment temporarily offline for repairs and refits, with a full battalion of BattleMechs being outright replaced with modern designs. Assuming a Lyran-aligned mercenary group swoops in and grabs all the BattleMechs that were replaced (also assuming they can pay the prices, I know), what would such a spread typically look like? I would prefer knowing by designs and specific model designations.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 15 February 2015, 17:13:37
That's not really a question that can be answered without knowing which unit the regiment is attached to.  A Royal Guard regiment is going to be pretty different from a Lyran Regulars regiment.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 15 February 2015, 17:29:46
That's not really a question that can be answered without knowing which unit the regiment is attached to.  A Royal Guard regiment is going to be pretty different from a Lyran Regulars regiment.

Alright, let's assume Lyran Regulars.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 15 February 2015, 18:34:17
Putting aside that the LCAF of 3145 can't afford the luxury of doing such right now...

If they're wholesale replacing older 'Mechs, then I'd say start with the bottom end of the "F" table of FM3145's Lyran RAT. That should give you some idea of the sort of "bottom of the barrel" gear that would be getting chucked.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 15 February 2015, 19:35:12
Alright, let's assume Lyran Regulars.

There'd be at least one Hunchback 4G! Yes, its old tech, but they keep them around for obvious reasons.

Any of the initial 3050 new-tech mechs still in the OOB would have been replaced certainly, especially if they had one of those Gawdawful Goliaths with 400 ammo for one MG  :P

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 15 February 2015, 20:19:48
There is also the consideration that many Lyran regiments have taken heavy damage in the last decade and even modern designs can only take so much damage before replacing it make more sense than continually rebuilding it.  And given the heavy losses taken by LCAF forces against the forces of the FWL, the Jade Falcons and the Wolves, the LCAF is likely experiencing a manpower shortage so they likely could afford to sell older designs as well as those that have taken heavy damage.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 15 February 2015, 20:53:34
There is also the consideration that many Lyran regiments have taken heavy damage in the last decade and even modern designs can only take so much damage before replacing it make more sense than continually rebuilding it.  And given the heavy losses taken by LCAF forces against the forces of the FWL, the Jade Falcons and the Wolves, the LCAF is likely experiencing a manpower shortage so they likely could afford to sell older designs as well as those that have taken heavy damage.

So, maybe a regiment is pulled back for repairs and refitting, and they are so shot up the LCAF decides to bite the bullet and replace their surviving Mechs while they're at it?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 15 February 2015, 20:59:07
Iconic units? BNC-3M is not a Steiner 'Mech? Also, I would expect to see CN9-AH in Marik or Davion force, rather than Steiner.

 Banshee's are pretty iconic to Steiner, even if it has an M after it. We are fluffed to use them.
 In 39 I'd expect to see some crossover so I don't think the centurion is out of place.
 We're using flak in the warriors to take out their birds, thunders and tandems.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 15 February 2015, 21:02:25
There is also the consideration that many Lyran regiments have taken heavy damage in the last decade and even modern designs can only take so much damage before replacing it make more sense than continually rebuilding it.  And given the heavy losses taken by LCAF forces against the forces of the FWL, the Jade Falcons and the Wolves, the LCAF is likely experiencing a manpower shortage so they likely could afford to sell older designs as well as those that have taken heavy damage.

 What damage have we taken in the last decade? Other than the recent attacks by the wolves and falcons who's attacked us? Wasn't there 50 years of peace?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 15 February 2015, 22:00:40
So, maybe a regiment is pulled back for repairs and refitting, and they are so shot up the LCAF decides to bite the bullet and replace their surviving Mechs while they're at it?

Why not?  While a regiment of the Lyran Regulars likely won't get access to top-of-the-line equipment given the state of emergency they would still get replacement 'Mechs that aren't being held together by baling wire and prayers.  Better an older 'Mech that works properly than one less than a decade old but that looks like it would fall apart if you looked at it crossly.

What damage have we taken in the last decade? Other than the recent attacks by the wolves and falcons who's attacked us? Wasn't there 50 years of peace?

During the Republic Era, there was regular fighting along the Commonwealth's Clan border and there was also Adam Steiner's war against the Brotherhood of Cinncinnatus as well as fighting along the Commonwealth's FWL border.  During the Dark Age, besides the Wolves and Falcons, the Lyrans fought the Falcons' allies, the Hell's Horses, elements of the former FWL and then the reformed FWL.  There is also some small-scale fighting with the Galatean League and the Remnant and even the Ghost Bears and Rim Collection got their licks in.  And throughout both periods, the pirates of the Rim Territories were obviously taking advantage of the LCAF defenses being stretched.

Edit:  Even the DCMS engaged the LCAF before the Clans cut the traditional foes off from one another.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 15 February 2015, 22:33:57
So... There was no 50 years of peace. So what happened? Did they forget how to build battlemechs during that time? Surely the factories could have been rebuilt in a few years. We do have that clout.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 15 February 2015, 23:33:09
So... There was no 50 years of peace. So what happened? Did they forget how to build battlemechs during that time? Surely the factories could have been rebuilt in a few years. We do have that clout.

Well there was this idiot who conspired with the Commonwealth's enemies so that they wouldn't rebuild to their previous strength.  What was his name?  Oh yeah, Devlin Stone.

But seriously I have no idea where you are trying to go with this.

Before the Blackout they had a reasonable military, but then one misadventure after another depleted their reserves.  First the Falcon drive into the Republic.  Then the invasion into the FWL remnant, Clan Wolf turning on them and the FWL's counterattack.  Finally Clan Wolf expansion into Lyran territory and Jade Falcon's invasion into the Commonwealth.

While they can replace equipment relatively quickly, replacing experienced soldiers lost in battle (killed, captured or suffered seriously wounds that either temporarily or permanently puts them out of action) is not as easy.  Throwing half-trained cadets into battle is a recipe for disaster as the Nagelring's losses during the Battle of Tharkad showed.  To make the situation worse only the War College of Buena survived the recent conflicts unscathed, all the remaining academies were either directly involved in fighting against the Clans or found themselves on a world briefly held by a Clan.  And it obviously doesn't help when vital production facilities come under direct attack, such as on Tharkad or Hesperus II, if the world isn't lost outright (Arcturus).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 16 February 2015, 01:38:52
This all sounds dumb. I'm glad I'm not following this new timeline.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 16 February 2015, 05:26:13
This all sounds dumb. I'm glad I'm not following this new timeline.

What sounds dumb? That a nation hit on four sides, with large numbers of losses cannot just produce
trained warriors at the drop of a hat? Or that Melissa II made a deal with the wolves to transport them
to invade the former FWL as she was attacking the former FWL as well to expand her realm(always good!),
but was stupid and started jerking with the Wolves' civilians(a universally stupid idea in BattleTech, but one
that people do over and over). The wolves decided to turn and attack back. While this is going on, Malvina
Hazen and her pet Horses are attacking the Lyrans as well to end the Lyran threat. Then, both sides drive
to Tharkad because Malvina is willing to use any dirty trick at her disposal, and the Wolves are hitting fast
and hard in an area that was under-defended because its military was sent out to attack and the wolves
jumped ahead of the early warning system. And then, after the battles at Tharkad, the wolves and
Falcons again clash at Hesperus II?

If you think what is happening the Lyrans is bad, though, you should hear the squees of delight from Capellan
and Combine fans for what is happening to the Federated Suns(soon, we should be seeing the Capellans and
Combine as next door neighbors..) 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 16 February 2015, 10:12:21
No, that there was actual actions but we didn't replace our losses. In 50 years we didn't replace our losses.

 I really don't care what's going on with the Cappies and Snakes. I'm a Lyran. I even made a FB page for friends of Lyrans.
 It's my opinion that some of the stuff that's happened is just not believable. It's really stretching the imagination that this perfect storm of destruction and inept leadership could happen.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 16 February 2015, 11:16:27
No, that there was actual actions but we didn't replace our losses. In 50 years we didn't replace our losses.

 I really don't care what's going on with the Cappies and Snakes. I'm a Lyran. I even made a FB page for friends of Lyrans.
 It's my opinion that some of the stuff that's happened is just not believable. It's really stretching the imagination that this perfect storm of destruction and inept leadership could happen.

Well, remember that they did have this agreement with Stone to reduce their military..
Also, it seems that they DID replace their losses. However, the incompetence of one leader, Melissa II caused
the most harm. She surrounded herself with the worst social generals, and ignored the advice of people like
Trillian who were saying "Don't piss the wolves off! Nothing good can come of that!" They also tried to fight
the Falcons like they were fighting the Falcons, not like what they were REALLY fighting.  On top of that, many
of the Lyran units the Falcons were hitting were the militia units left behind when Melissa II decided to do her
push on the FWL. This meant that the first units hit by the Wolves were the best of the Lyran military, while
the Falcons got to gut a bloody, orbitally bombarded swath through troops that were not prepared for the
sheer bloody-mindedness of Malvina. Most Clan warriors would try to take the worlds, while Malvina didn't care.
And, with HPGs not being up, and only a sort of pony express of jumpships, and the Falcons pretty much coming
at BOTH jump points frequently and killing everything there..no warnings would really make it out early on.

The Lyrans at the height of their power could have held off both the FWL and the Draconis Combine...but this
is the Lyrans half-blind(due to no HPGs), with two fingers cut off each hand(due to the draw downs required
by their treaties with Devlin Stone), and with all their combat veterans facing in one direction as the most bloody
minded Clan leader since Nicholas Kerensky came on them from behind, and their leader was surrounded by
sycophants who "knew better" then to tell her something she didn't like.

It's happened before. It will happen again.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 16 February 2015, 13:27:44
Well, remember that they did have this agreement with Stone to reduce their military..

Yeah, that worked out SO well.  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 16 February 2015, 14:49:03
 So, the clans didn't have the drawdown of units like the IS did? why in the world would anyone that had an enemy like the clans at their border NOT keep their military at full strength? I guess this Melissa II wasn't the best leader. I have no idea how long she reigned but some one before her could have been better and kept the forces where they should have been. Isn't it true that the CC  didn't do the words to plowshears thing?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 16 February 2015, 15:01:47
looks like we got some CSO love on Valentines day. Were you seeing Red?

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=7160

 Yup, another scheme with Runes on it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 16 February 2015, 16:04:36
So, the clans didn't have the drawdown of units like the IS did? why in the world would anyone that had an enemy like the clans at their border NOT keep their military at full strength? I guess this Melissa II wasn't the best leader. I have no idea how long she reigned but some one before her could have been better and kept the forces where they should have been. Isn't it true that the CC  didn't do the words to plowshears thing?

The clans also kept their military's small, by restricting the number of trueborn's they were churning out.

All the nations kept more equipment than originally agreed with Stone, its just that the CapCon and to a lesser extent the Combine hid more away than the other nations.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 16 February 2015, 16:26:49
If I was Trillian, I'd probably do a soft purge of the officer's corps after that disaster, encouraging many of the useless social generals to take a comfortable retirement, have them take an advisory role with certain companies far away from any combat command, or simply publically fire them. The officers who move up should be mostly those who actually know what they're doing. Trillian should be able to make the right choices with her experience in the LCAF, and the resulting military would be (temporarily) trimmed of the useless fat that was dragging it down.

I know it wouldn't last, but just for a few, glorious years we'd have a competently lead military...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 16 February 2015, 16:58:58
The Clans did draw down their militaries as well; Stone basically played to their sense of honour in order to force their hands along the way. (That five of them had suffered massive losses when they were ejected from the homeworlds also had a net effect of getting them a lot of the way there). The Clans of 3145 have no homeworld reserves to call on; what they have in their OZs is it.

The CC also limited their forces, but it was more of playing lip service. A lot of the "scrapped" CC 'Mechs were instead quietly secreted away, allowing the CCAF to very slowly rebuild over the course of decades. The Victoria War and the Capellan Crusades slowed this process by forcing the CCAF to rebuild from losses while also costing them a major production schedule.

The Lyrans jumped on disarmament because it allowed them to de-emphasise the one thing they were terrible at (War) and focus on what they were good at (making money)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Øystein on 16 February 2015, 17:51:30
The Clans didn't rebuild either. Some of the reasoning why was not so subtle threats from Devlin Stone that if they started an arms race, the ROTS and the rest of the Sphere would end it, forcefully. Same with the Treaty of Tikonov which put a limit on the House armies - a limit that mainly held from 3085 to 3130.

This allowed the houses to focus on economic growth and civilian rebuilding and not have to worry about another arms race. As such, the LCAF in 3130 was the same strength as the DCMS or the FWLM, and more that capable of defending against the Jade Falcons.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 16 February 2015, 18:34:11
Both the Wolves and Falcons lost more than a third of their respective military strength but far more importantly they lost access to their manufacturing back in the homeworlds (withthe scouring of Tamar not helping Clan Wolf's situation any) as well as a large number of sibkos.  As a result their ability to rapidly rebuild their strength was limited.  Inter-Clan warfare and the reavings in the late 3090s and early 3100s didn't help the Clans either. 

The Lyrans likely also took into account that Clan Jade Falcon and Clan Wolf's respective ability to launch an invasion was hampered by the fact they had to keep a wary eye on their neighbors.  Both Clans had to consider that one of their neighbors might decide to take advantage of weakened defenses while they were busy invading the Commonwealth.  As a result the Lyran planners likely believed they would have to deal with only limited incursions.

The worlds of Lyran Commonwealth, like all Great Houses, suffered great damage during the Jihad but the Lyran worlds were still trying to recover from the FedCom Civil War when the Jihad erupted.  The Lyrans lost some worlds to the Jade Falcons while several more were destroyed, including Alarion.  Even worlds not directly attacked in either conflict suffered the effects of interstellar trade being disrupted.  By the end of the Jihad, the Lyran economy had begun to rebound but was still a shadow of what it had been three decades (let along during the FedCom days) before.  To make the situation worse, the Lyrans, like the other Great Houses, lost a significant portion of their military strength as their soldiers retired, many of whom had long since completed their service period, or were discharged for medical (or mental) injuries.  As a result, the Lyrans had to rebuild both a devastated economy, needed to support the LCAF both financially and materially, before they could even begin to seriously consider doing more than rebuilding active commands (reactivating destroyed commands or building new ones).

Melissa Steiner likely inherited a fairly strong military force but no military force is ever really prepared for attacks on multiple fronts.  While it obviously wasn't coordinated between the various groups, the LCAF suffered the same effects as though their enemies were using the age old 'divide-and-conquer' strategy.  With their forces stretched along multiple fronts and the HPG crash limiting interstellar communications, the LCAF was unable to regain the initiative.  It was only their enemies slowing, if not outright stopping, their respective advances that saved the Commonwealth, at least temporarily, from meeting the same fate as Napoleon's French Empire and Hitler's Third Reich.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 16 February 2015, 18:48:53
If I was Trillian, I'd probably do a soft purge of the officer's corps after that disaster, encouraging many of the useless social generals to take a comfortable retirement, have them take an advisory role with certain companies far away from any combat command, or simply publically fire them. The officers who move up should be mostly those who actually know what they're doing. Trillian should be able to make the right choices with her experience in the LCAF, and the resulting military would be (temporarily) trimmed of the useless fat that was dragging it down.

I know it wouldn't last, but just for a few, glorious years we'd have a competently lead military...

Trillian can't afford any serious purges, she is barely holding on to the throne as it is and she has only been able to do that because of Roderick Steiner and Jasek Kelswa-Steiner's support.  If she tries to force officers out of office, she could potentially face a civil war.  The best she can hope for is that the incompetent officers (and her political enemies) give her an excuse to remove them and don't cause too much damage to the state in the process.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 17 February 2015, 13:53:20
Trillian can't afford any serious purges, she is barely holding on to the throne as it is and she has only been able to do that because of Roderick Steiner and Jasek Kelswa-Steiner's support.  If she tries to force officers out of office, she could potentially face a civil war.  The best she can hope for is that the incompetent officers (and her political enemies) give her an excuse to remove them and don't cause too much damage to the state in the process.

Maybe she can arrange for them to be in the same situation as the Eridani Light Horse?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 17 February 2015, 14:41:24
Maybe she can arrange for them to be in the same situation as the Eridani Light Horse?

Highly doubtful.  They nearly launched a second coup over the Hesperus operation despite not having any viable candidate willing to unseat her.  They certainly wouldn't stick their necks out that far for her especially considering the fate of the Eridani Light Horse and the other mercenary units on-planet.  As far as they are concerned, she got lucky with the Hesperus II operation.  It was too big a risk (ignoring the fact that the Falcons would likely have seized the world if they had tried to defend the planet conventionally) and came at too high a price (she didn't provide the mercenaries with any means of getting to safety and the Commonwealth could certainly use those mercenary units).  While mercenaries know that the employers consider them to be disposable assets, she has proven how little consideration she has for the mercenaries in her employ (whether true or not that is the message that has been conveyed to the public and especially other mercenaries).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 17 February 2015, 14:57:28
Trillian is dealing with the fate of all Archons.  If the military doesn't like you, you're out.  Just in the last 125 years we have Alessandro Steiner, Melissa Steiner-Davion, Peter Steiner-Davion and Melissa Steiner II all happily replaced either by the military or their replacement applauded by the same.  If she wants to silence her detractors she needs to perform.

Edited for less ambiguity.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 17 February 2015, 17:44:08
And while Lyran Social Generals are usually militarily questionable, they wield a lot of influence, especially in aforesaid military. The Archon relies on them for support, and can't just go around turfing them out and replacing them en masse, unless they want to find themselves punted off the throne and replaced with the first cousin (or whatever) that comes along.

Sadly, the only time the Social Generals have been declawed was during the FedCom era, when the AFFC engaged in the unthinkable practice of promoting people based on ability rather then who their daddy was.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 17 February 2015, 17:50:17
You don't think promotion by family ties doesn't happen everywhere? IIT most certainly does.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 17 February 2015, 18:30:42
You don't think promotion by family ties doesn't happen everywhere? IIT most certainly does.

I'm  not saying that it doesn't by any means. However, the LCAF is where it's the most common, most heavily institutonalised and often the most self-destructive
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 17 February 2015, 20:53:44
I'm  not saying that it doesn't by any means. However, the LCAF is where it's the most common, most heavily institutonalised and often the most self-destructive

And thus the NCO Corps must be the strongest in the Inner Sphere, seeing as the Lyran state still exists. ;)

That's my theory, anyway.  Yes, I'm biased.  I'm still right.  8)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 17 February 2015, 21:18:34
And while Lyran Social Generals are usually militarily questionable, they wield a lot of influence, especially in aforesaid military. The Archon relies on them for support, and can't just go around turfing them out and replacing them en masse, unless they want to find themselves punted off the throne and replaced with the first cousin (or whatever) that comes along.

Sadly, the only time the Social Generals have been declawed was during the FedCom era, when the AFFC engaged in the unthinkable practice of promoting people based on ability rather then who their daddy was.

The AFFC tried to at least but usually the best they could do was move them/promote them to a position where they could do as little damage as possible.  Thanom Hammerskjold, Christian Campbell and Richard Steiner all flourished under the AFFC before their incompetence/corrupt nature led to their downfall.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 17 February 2015, 21:23:57
And thus the NCO Corps must be the strongest in the Inner Sphere, seeing as the Lyran state still exists. ;)

That's my theory, anyway.  Yes, I'm biased.  I'm still right.  8)

No, what the Lyrans were good at were simply out-producing their enemies. So while their millitary was losing 'Mechs in droves, they could replace them faster then any other Successor State. The 3rd SW-era Lyrans built more 'Mechs then any other two states put together or something.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 17 February 2015, 21:28:16
Actually, I believe that one of the sourcebooks did mention that NCOs in Lyran units tended to by hypercompetent and that was one of the reasons that they managed to win battles on a fairly regular basis.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 17 February 2015, 21:31:48
I'm  not saying that it doesn't by any means. However, the LCAF is where it's the most common, most heavily institutonalised and often the most self-destructive

 Tell that to the DCMS and the Samurai.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 17 February 2015, 21:52:11
Sadly, the only time the Social Generals have been declawed was during the FedCom era, when the AFFC engaged in the unthinkable practice of promoting people based on ability rather then who their daddy was.

And what did we learn from that?  Whoever was willing to off the sitting Archon was going to be greeted with open arms.  Katherine Steiner-Davion, for all her twisted ways and reverting the LAAF to a pre-3030s LCAF model managed to put up a fight against "the best" military in the Inner Sphere... one who's greatest accomplishment was leaving an entire border defended by 5 mercenary regiments and beating on the lame dog of the Inner Sphere.

Just sayin' at least the LCAF took DC worlds  ^-^
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 17 February 2015, 23:06:50
And thus the NCO Corps must be the strongest in the Inner Sphere, seeing as the Lyran state still exists. ;)

That's my theory, anyway.  Yes, I'm biased.  I'm still right.  8)

I've always thought it was a combo of them and the experienced junior officers that didn't get rapid promotions through contacts, instead having to work that much harder on the front lines.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 18 February 2015, 09:39:15
Just because some one is a social general it doesn't mean they are a poor commander, or that they're a commander at all. They could be just generals in name only, like how they started.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 18 February 2015, 10:55:30
The way the Lyran court, military and business function is very hand in glove.  The behavior of the officer corps is not unlike their business sector.  In turn, those high ranking generals and business people become power players in the Estates General and other sectors.  It happens invisibly in other nations.  Even the FedSuns, for all their hype about merit based promotions still have a strong connection between their nobility and military.  Where the Lyrans differ from others is how blatant and ritualized they are about it.

Take the school rag as an example.  Officers wear their school colors in their social functions.  This helps them to form cliques and make connections based on common backgrounds.  A junior officer walking in with a Nagelring rag is going to be easily singled out by senior staff graduates of the Nagelring.  When a position under them comes up they have that junior officer recommended to fill it.  It isn't all that different from alumni networks at universitys.   Job postings in their alumni letter give fellow alumni a first stab at an opening.  Harvard's Crimson alumni newsletter used to straight up offer jobs to people who graduated with the right major.  And the West Point mafia...

Anyway.  We take this for granted in the business world.  Went to the right school?  You get preferentially viewed to other applicants.  For the Lyran Commonwealth the business sector and the military are often populated by the same families.  As such, it shouldn't surprise anyone that business principles of management like Wasta and the Peter Principle apply within the LCAF.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 18 February 2015, 12:10:02
Or any nation in the Inner Sphere or periphery.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nerroth on 18 February 2015, 13:13:19
I wasn't sure if this ought to be talked about here or discussed in its own thread, but how do fans of House Steiner feel about the situation the Empires Aflame version of the Commonwealth finds itself in as of alt-3095?

With the Dracs having steadily ground their way through the Tamar Pact worlds on the one side, the steadily fracturing League and the Terran-backed Rim Federation on the other, and with the Supremacy having taken a hold of Skye and other worlds in the direction of Terra, where would you focus your priorities on going forward?

And given the various potential outcomes of the adventure portion of the EA file itself, how would you seek to take advantage of a potential dynastic union with House Kerensky-Cameron/Amaris? DeChavilier... or try and mitigate the damage from a more Marik-leaning result of that series of events?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 18 February 2015, 18:59:24
No, what the Lyrans were good at were simply out-producing their enemies. So while their millitary was losing 'Mechs in droves, they could replace them faster then any other Successor State. The 3rd SW-era Lyrans built more 'Mechs then any other two states put together or something.

If that were true, the Lyrans would have become a footnote in history long ago. They may be able to produce an amazing number of machines, but without competent leadership they would die faster than more could be made.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 18 February 2015, 22:11:21
To be fair, the Lyrans also faced off against an enemy that plays right into their strength.  The DCMS was known for having a complete lack of strategic brilliance.  Full frontal assaults don't demand a tremendous strategic brilliance to confront.  The famed Lyran wall of steel will get you by when confronting an enemy that throws themselves at you.

The FWLM was also wracked with political problems that undermined their effectiveness in a very real sense.  It likewise doesn't require strategic geniuses to fight an enemy that will defeat itself by bringing too few troops, withdrawing troops over political disagreements, or generally not cooperate.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 19 February 2015, 07:45:03
To be fair, the Lyrans also faced off against an enemy that plays right into their strength.  The DCMS was known for having a complete lack of strategic brilliance.  Full frontal assaults don't demand a tremendous strategic brilliance to confront.  The famed Lyran wall of steel will get you by when confronting an enemy that throws themselves at you.

The FWLM was also wracked with political problems that undermined their effectiveness in a very real sense.  It likewise doesn't require strategic geniuses to fight an enemy that will defeat itself by bringing too few troops, withdrawing troops over political disagreements, or generally not cooperate.

Well, that's two of our enemies.....
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 February 2015, 12:30:58
Yea, the Falcons are a whole nother ball of wax as far as that's concerned.

BTW, if anyone is interested I've started a Lyran Facebook page.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caedis Animus on 27 February 2015, 08:45:30
Link please? I am actually very interested in that.

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 18 March 2015, 18:36:41
Hmm. I have MegaMek, so I have a question for you guys. I want to build a somewhat balanced BattleMech force representing the 23rd Arcturan Guards before their drop on Hesperus II to drive off Clan Wolf and Clan Jade Falcon forces. Given that Sarna.net claims they remained on-planet to rebuild using battlefield salvage and production from Defiance Industries, I assume they have easy access to replacement stuff.

Sorry, I seem to be going on a tangent, here.

If I use the "Create Random Army" tool and go to the RAT, which sections (by field manual) should I go to, and which columns in the specific weight categories (like Assault Mech B, or Light Mech F)? Keep in mind I want to build a BattleMech force representing the 23rd Arcturan Guards before their drop on Hesperus II.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 18 March 2015, 20:07:26
This is something on mega mek? I really know nothing about that game. I've tried it but I don't understand it.

 Now, if you're asking table top... The majority of battlemechs in a Lyran force would be heavies (35%) followed by mediums (30%) then asssults (25%) then lights (10%). That's RAT'S about this time period. I got this from the fan project that some one did on this web site.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 March 2015, 09:12:38
just found this on CSO, some more lovin

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=7205
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 March 2015, 14:06:45
just found this on CSO, some more lovin

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=7205

Nice, you'd think they would change the name back to Lyran Commonwealth now though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Jochmann on 20 March 2015, 17:20:27
I just layed my hands on the House Steiner Sourcebook. There are, amongst other things, the medals and honors mentioned. One struck me as odd:
The MckKensy Hammer, given to officers who have shown particularly effective skills in tactics or strategy. It's a 20-pound silver hammer, which is allowed (read: expected) to be carried with the gala uniform.
What is the LC trying to tell the honored officers? You have more brains than brawns, go training?
Or your tactics are as sharp as this blunt hammer?
Or please avoid galas and balls, else you will suffer (from aching muscles and tensions in your shoulder area)?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 20 March 2015, 20:27:30
Maybe that they should avoid galas and balls, because the temptation to smash the idiots will be strong with that hammer nearby? Little chance of that when you're at the front lines where you can do the most good, after all. :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 March 2015, 22:22:05
It's probably just one of those things.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Jochmann on 20 March 2015, 22:44:37
Yeah, I know, but I thought it funny enough to share ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 21 March 2015, 00:16:03
Be funnier if the name was Maxwells award.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 22 March 2015, 12:36:34
What is the LC trying to tell the honored officers?

I have the number of a really good chiropractor?  Carrying that thing around at social functions must take a toll on the trap muscles.

Quote
You have more brains than brawns, go training?
Or your tactics are as sharp as this blunt hammer?
Or please avoid galas and balls, else you will suffer (from aching muscles and tensions in your shoulder area)?

The idea is supposed to be a representation of the weight of responsibility.  The power that officers (the only candidates for this award, NCOs get the Groundpounder's Medal) wield is serious business.  While that hammer looks spiffy, the act of carrying it signifies the responsibility officers have in wielding the power of the state effectively.

Plus, its the Lyrans.  They do everything with a little more panoche.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 22 March 2015, 16:19:34
Be funnier if the name was Maxwells award.

It's named for Maxwell McKennsy Edison, a military doctor with a suspiciously sharp mind for tactics.  [citation needed]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 01 April 2015, 04:38:21
I just layed my hands on the House Steiner Sourcebook. There are, amongst other things, the medals and honors mentioned. One struck me as odd:
The MckKensy Hammer, given to officers who have shown particularly effective skills in tactics or strategy. It's a 20-pound silver hammer, which is allowed (read: expected) to be carried with the gala uniform.
What is the LC trying to tell the honored officers? You have more brains than brawns, go training?
Or your tactics are as sharp as this blunt hammer?
Or please avoid galas and balls, else you will suffer (from aching muscles and tensions in your shoulder area)?

You have to admit..a 20 lb silver hammer must look really spiffy with the lyran dress uniform. However, I do think that
they would something to carry it so that it is practicable.. Also, you realize that that is a VERY visible award for SKILL
in strategy and tactics. Two things the Lyrans tend to be in short supply of, thanks to Social Generals. It makes those
who have earned their place through that degree of competency rather visible at galas. Have you ever seen a
description in a novel of someone carrying one? Think about it...not even Victor received the award(and that was pretty
much the only thing he did well!)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 01 April 2015, 13:04:49
Grayson Carlyle received one at the end of Operation Excalibur.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 01 April 2015, 16:04:32
Grayson Carlyle received one at the end of Operation Excalibur.

Money can always 'employ' the best  ^-^
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 April 2015, 16:26:41
Darn right it can. It's why we're the best.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 02 April 2015, 03:49:23
Grayson Carlyle received one at the end of Operation Excalibur.

Wasn't Lori also awarded one? It was the first time there had been a double award ceremony from memory?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 April 2015, 09:30:37
Something like that.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 April 2015, 12:04:53
If she did the hammer would probably be bigger than she was. She'd need a wheelbarrow to carry it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 02 April 2015, 12:20:26
If she did the hammer would probably be bigger than she was. She'd need a wheelbarrow to carry it.

Imagine the pomp of having your own personal vallet who's job it is to haul that hammer around and present it as a conversation piece. 

"Oh, this old thing?  Rodney, show the Hauptmann that doohickey I won.  Tactical brilliance or some such nonsense.  Also, flag the server.  I want some of those pigs in a blanket"
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 April 2015, 12:26:34
Spoken like a true Social General!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 02 April 2015, 13:30:19
Wasn't Lori also awarded one? It was the first time there had been a double award ceremony from memory?

And yet at the end of the Legion she was portrayed as being tactically incompetent, it still annoys me how the Legions end was written.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 April 2015, 13:42:52
Quite honestly, there was never a point where I was impressed by the tactical brilliance of the Legion.  Their victories seemed to come almost exclusively from fighting until their opponent just gave up.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 02 April 2015, 14:13:11
Spoken like a true Social General!

No one is above pigs in a blanket.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 April 2015, 15:25:12
They are quite the tasty morsel.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 02 April 2015, 20:54:52
And yet at the end of the Legion she was portrayed as being tactically incompetent, it still annoys me how the Legions end was written.

Yes, well, aside from apparently there was only one stack of armor plates in the entire warehouse for Lori to hide behind; and the Legion in that last book making the errors of untried green troops; the author entirely forgetting the Legion actually had a functioning staff set up which would have eliminated at least half their problems; and also forgetting they had a strong NCO corps which also would have been a check against the unit being stupid; sure, that was a well made story :p

If they were to be destroyed in the great, over-arching grand storyline of Battletech, fine, its their time, but to just toss them away with the disdain of a used Kleenex, c'mon man. An ambush by a WarShip of their DropShips in orbit would have been better.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 02 April 2015, 21:00:32
Quite honestly, there was never a point where I was impressed by the tactical brilliance of the Legion.  Their victories seemed to come almost exclusively from fighting until their opponent just gave up.

Blood of Heroes and Operation Excalibur showed them outnumbered and outgunned and having to use tactics and guile to overcome the enemy.

But I think, based on comments by players I've known over the decades, several people's disdain of the GDL stems from them opposing Victor. *shrug* I did too, and still do, whenever I play a game set in that time period.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 03 April 2015, 13:53:31
I never really cared about who they sided with during the Civil War- they were mercs, not a House unit.  It was things like how the Cyclops was described as "heavily armored" and Lori's magic head-seeking autocannon that bugged me.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 April 2015, 14:03:47
I opposed Victor too Top. I applauded the GDL for what they did. To see them snuffed out because they were cool was saddening. I notice the 'goons and hounds are still mucking about though. It's good to have pet dogs though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 03 April 2015, 14:13:38
I never really cared about who they sided with during the Civil War- they were mercs, not a House unit. 

Both the Legion and the Kell Hounds occupy an odd space between house units and mercs.  Thanks to the noble titles of their leaders they get to interact with the government in ways a straight up merc unit would not.

I opposed Victor too Top. I applauded the GDL for what they did. To see them snuffed out because they were cool was saddening. I notice the 'goons and hounds are still mucking about though. It's good to have pet dogs though.

The Kell Hounds are fairly unique at this point.  They are led by members of the Lyran nobility, but remain "mercenaries".  Not many of those commands left.  The Dragoons were on life support and stopped taking Lyran Kroner as soon as they felt they could make a splash on the open market.  Prior to that they survived on Lyran and Kell charity.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 April 2015, 16:22:19
Yup, I'm pretty familiar with the situation. I just found it ironic that the GDL is gone but those that sided with victor are still around.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 03 April 2015, 16:54:13
I find it amusing that by 3145 the Grey Death series of Battlearmour have been around far longer then the GDL ever was
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 03 April 2015, 17:42:55
Yup, I'm pretty familiar with the situation. I just found it ironic that the GDL is gone but those that sided with victor are still around.

Why?  Victor's side won.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 03 April 2015, 20:18:41
Why?  Victor's side won.

 :P Ugh, don't remind me.   #P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Jochmann on 03 April 2015, 20:33:01
Well... I think it hadn't been better if Katrina had won. She wasn't suited for regency neither. Lets face it, Hanse's and Melissa's children were spoiled brats, none of them should have the right to the throne. Katrina might had been a good advisor or PR manager, Victor a good general, but that's it.
Sortek or Morgan Kell should have gotten the crown.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 April 2015, 23:15:53
That had nothing to do with the death of the GDL. The side that win the war had merc units survive in the story line ie goons and hounds. GDL sided with the Lyrans and were destroyed.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 04 April 2015, 11:59:41
:P Ugh, don't remind me.   #P

Never understood how Victor  was seen as "Davion" - a guy who was brought up on Tharkad, had the classic Steiner features, served exclusively in traditional Lyran units and thought in German...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 April 2015, 12:21:28
His sister was an excellent propagandist.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 April 2015, 14:22:10
Never understood how Victor  was seen as "Davion" - a guy who was brought up on Tharkad, had the classic Steiner features, served exclusively in traditional Lyran units and thought in German...

 Other than the entirety of the Davion side taking his side only a few "Lyran" units sided with him. The people of the Fed suns side sided with him. Maybe every one from that side followed him because he associated more with the Davion side.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 04 April 2015, 19:47:06
Other than the entirety of the Davion side taking his side only a few "Lyran" units sided with him. The people of the Fed suns side sided with him. Maybe every one from that side followed him because he associated more with the Davion side.

Actually quite a few Davion units sided with Katherine including the 11th and 22nd Avalon Hussars RCT, the 1st and 2nd  Chisholm's Raiders RCTs, 10th and 15th Deneb Light Cavalry RCTs, most of the remaining FedCom RCTs (including the infamous 5th FedCom RCT) and quite a few of the March Militias.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 04 April 2015, 19:52:03
Actually quite a few Davion units sided with Katherine including the 11th and 22nd Avalon Hussars RCT, the 1st and 2nd  Chisholm's Raiders RCTs, 10th and 15th Deneb Light Cavalry RCTs, most of the remaining FedCom RCTs (including the infamous 5th FedCom RCT) and quite a few of the March Militias.

 O:-) They saw the Light.  [cheers]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 April 2015, 20:17:17
Many "Lyran" units went with Victor. All the ones that had Davion commanders.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 04 April 2015, 20:35:02
Time to break out that good old song Marching Through Crucis.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 04 April 2015, 20:59:40
There was a pre existing resentment of the FedSuns within the Lyran half of the FedCom.  Katherine used her ability to court the Lyran media to blame several problems on Victor.  Eventually people came to believe he was more FedSun than Lyran, whether or not that was the truth.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 April 2015, 22:04:14
I prefer Katherine to Victor, any day.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 04 April 2015, 22:05:49
I prefer Katherine to Victor, any day.

...what was option number three again?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 04 April 2015, 22:07:02
I prefer Katherine to Victor, any day.

Ditto.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Jochmann on 04 April 2015, 22:10:46
I'm ith jklantern. Option number three is better than Vicky or Cathy. No matter who nr. 3 is...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 April 2015, 22:16:02
So...Adam. I like him too. Peter S-D was a putz and just another S-D.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 04 April 2015, 22:20:24
So...Adam. I like him too. Peter S-D was a putz and just another S-D.

Adam is acceptable.  I'll take Adam.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 April 2015, 22:23:32
Excellent, welcome to the fold. Just remember to bring some information with you, since it is ammunition.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Jochmann on 04 April 2015, 22:27:01
I do agree as well. Adam is capable.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 04 April 2015, 22:32:47
Many "Lyran" units went with Victor. All the ones that had Davion commanders.

As far as I am aware, all the Lyran units that sided with Victor had Lyran commanders.  The only FS-born commander in the Lyran military that I am aware of, James Ito of the 5th Alliance Guards RCT, was an ardent supporter of Katherine and led his unit against Davion units on Ft. Loudon and Dalkeith.  Of course this doesn't include the AFFS units that were caught in the Lyran half after the breakup.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 04 April 2015, 22:34:17
Excellent, welcome to the fold. Just remember to bring some information with you, since it is ammunition.

Hang on, let me dig out the appropriate Battletech Card...

"'Information is ammunition!  Information is ammunition!'  Well, I'm sorry, Major, but I say the hell with information--ammunition is ammunition!"

-Patch McGuire, Tech, 1st Somerset Strikers
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 April 2015, 00:16:32
I'm sure I've got an Access To Extra Munitions around here...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 05 April 2015, 05:59:47
Adam will do.

Somerset Strikers forever!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: foxbat on 05 April 2015, 06:36:57
His sister was an excellent propagandist.

Exactly. When Victor could not attend Melissa's funeral after she was murdered by Katherine, Katherine made the most of the opportunity. As Ryan Steiner did. When Ryan kindled the fires of teh anti-victor resentment, Katherine was perceived by Victor himself as the one capable of bringing back order... This put her in a perfect position to grab the Tharkan throne for herself when the Joshua scandal set out the FC-FWL war of 3057 and declare the Lyran Alliance secession, leaving Victor and the Federated Suns to cope with the mess. This is why she is perceived by her prestigious (in Lyran eyes at least) aunt Nondi as such a true blood Steiner, and why she can trely on her assistance to build in contrast her brother's image as that of a staunch Davion.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 05 April 2015, 16:37:02
Victor also ticked off the Lyrans when he commanded the international effort which liberated the Draconis Combine from Clan Smoke Jaguar and, afterwards, no efforts were made to free Tamar.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 April 2015, 21:01:19
Yea, he had the army. Why didn't he take out the Falcons after the Jags? All those veteran units with salvaged clan tech...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 05 April 2015, 21:49:22
Yea, he had the army. Why didn't he take out the Falcons after the Jags? All those veteran units with salvaged clan tech...

There's numerous reasons, but one of the big ones comes down to the spirit of cooperation needed to take down the Jags pretty much died with that Clan. By the time Vic got back to the Inner Sphere, Kat had taken over the FedCom, Sun Tzu was abusing the ever-living crap out of his position to reclaim St. Ives, the Combine-Fedsuns border was heating up and the units that made up Vic's army were streaming back to their own states.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 05 April 2015, 22:02:27
How could he do that?  Once Victor returned those units were no longer under his command.  Not to mention that he wasn't the SLDF Commanding General (Anastasius Focht was) and Katherine had already seized the throne on New Avalon.

He would have had to have approval from the Star League Council to make any such move.  Katherine would have approved such a plan but would have demanded that somebody other than Victor lead the SLDF forces.  Sun-Tzu interest in the SL was waning but he certainly wouldn't have wanted Victor to lead such a campaign either.  At best he would have used it as an excuse to get some more Clan-tech for the Confederation.  The remaining SL Council members would have been concerned that such an act might cause the Clans to vote for a new invasion.

Attempting to move foreign forces through the LA without approval would have been considered an invasion and the LAAF would have moved against him.  Not to mention that the House Lords wouldn't have approved such a move and would have ordered their units to return home and without LAAF approval there wouldn't have been any staging/logistical bases to support an invasion of the Falcon or Wolf OZs.  Same goes for moving through the Ghost Bear OZ without permission.

Even if they could free Tamar, the LAAF didn't have the military strength to hold it without support.  Regardless of whether one is talking about just Tamar , opening a corridor to Tamar or liberating a broad swath of worlds.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 April 2015, 22:24:24
The Lyrans had never put effort in trying to reclaim any of their worlds, either.  Heck, about the time of the Refusal War, it seemed like there was a total abandonment of any sort of anti-Clan action on that side of the Sphere.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Arvanna on 06 April 2015, 00:53:15
Your not supposed to mention that part, it goes against the entire "It's all Victor's and the Fed Suns fault for not fighting hard enough for us mantra."  :-X
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 06 April 2015, 02:36:34
The Lyrans had never put effort in trying to reclaim any of their worlds, either.  Heck, about the time of the Refusal War, it seemed like there was a total abandonment of any sort of anti-Clan action on that side of the Sphere.

Outside of the occasional border raid, most of the Lyran efforts were supporting various anti-Clan resistance groups within the Clan OZs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 06 April 2015, 06:30:38
The Lyrans had never put effort in trying to reclaim any of their worlds, either.  Heck, about the time of the Refusal War, it seemed like there was a total abandonment of any sort of anti-Clan action on that side of the Sphere.

Which made absolutely no sense, especially with the "If we don't kill them, they're gonna kill us all!" message that was being pumped out at high velocity as the Clan Invasion began. So Victor takes his task force all the way to the Clan Homeworlds and comes back with a negotiated peace which did not solve the Inner Sphere's problem.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 April 2015, 14:00:12
No, it didn't.  Between that and the fact that it took the Steel Vipers 5 years after the Refusal War was over to remember that they were still in the same OZ as the Falcons, it seems like the Green Turkeys had basically the best plot armor of any faction during the FASA years.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 April 2015, 14:12:27
Your not supposed to mention that part, it goes against the entire "It's all Victor's and the Fed Suns fault for not fighting hard enough for us mantra."  :-X

 Call it what you want. It's still true.

If they wanted to get rid of the invading clans when they came back they could have. Victor was a war hero. Those units would have followed him anywhere to take out clanner.

 Instead he hung out with Omi, pretended to be a farmer and took over as being precenter.

 If the Fed suns side ever even cared about the Lyran side, other than to take our money and things we produced they would have helped get the falcons out.

 But nooooo. They were more than happy to help out the Dracs... Traditional enemies I might add, instead of trying to help out the other side.

 Kind of hard to take back worlds when your leader, victor, is more interested in running off with equipment and soldiers that could see better use taking out the enemy at our door.
 Katherine was a much better choice.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 April 2015, 14:58:28
Might I remind you that Kathrine was literally in bed with the Clans?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 April 2015, 15:00:32
With Vlad, not the falcons. Besides, that was a smart political move on her part. She would have done the same with the Falcon Khan ( Who was it Martha Pryde? At the time) if she could have. She was a good politician trying to better her nation.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 April 2015, 15:10:55
Her entire "plan" for how to deal with the Clans was to take an unarmed ship to Jaguar space and attempt to negotiate with them under the delusion that they'd somehow be willing to cut a deal to attack the Falcons for her.  If she hadn't run into Vlad and gotten horizontal with him, she'd have spent the rest of her days as a beet farmer out in the Deep Periphery somewhere.  Victor was dumb but he managed to avoid ever doing anything quite so harebrained as that.

And once she'd done that, she proceeded to strip the defenses along the Falcon border because Vlad asked her.  All this did was let the Falcons grab more territory.

Oh, and might I also point out that the Wolves had, in fact, invaded part of the Lyran territories- specifically Tamar.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 April 2015, 15:24:16
Invaded before or after she negotiated with Vlad. I don't remember.
 I understand you're trying to paint her in a bad light. She was doing her best to helo her nation with out bloodshed. It's the way politicians work. Unfortunately that's not how battletech works and there had to be bloodshed. Victor was just more than happy to leave the nation he was in charge of.
 What did he think would happen when he abandoned his people? At least Katherine was there to be a ruler instead of trying to play hero.

 Given time I'm sure she could have taken out the falcons.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 April 2015, 16:43:30
Might I remind you that Kathrine was literally in bed with the Clans?
With Vlad, not the falcons. Besides, that was a smart political move on her part. She would have done the same with the Falcon Khan ( Who was it Martha Pryde? At the time) if she could have. She was a good politician trying to better her nation.
Oh, and might I also point out that the Wolves had, in fact, invaded part of the Lyran territories- specifically Tamar.

The point being that the Wolves were an enemy of the Lyrans who had invaded and captured multiple planets.

I understand you're trying to paint her in a bad light. She was doing her best to helo her nation with out bloodshed. It's the way politicians work. Unfortunately that's not how battletech works and there had to be bloodshed. Victor was just more than happy to leave the nation he was in charge of.
 What did he think would happen when he abandoned his people? At least Katherine was there to be a ruler instead of trying to play hero.

By running off in total secret for 6 months with no way to contact her to "negotiate" with an enemy she'd never met and knew nothing about beyond their animosity toward the Combine?  That's not a plan without bloodshed, that's a plan without sanity.  And she didn't really do a lot once she found out that the Falcons had landed on Coventry, either.

Remember, the second she got control of the FedSuns side, she nipped off to New Avalon.  She basically let the whole border burn during the Civil War- her "alliance" with Vlad certainly didn't accomplish anything.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 06 April 2015, 17:47:45
If they wanted to get rid of the invading clans when they came back they could have. Victor was a war hero. Those units would have followed him anywhere to take out clanner.

Uh in your AU maybe.  The only way he could have done that was with the approval of the House Lords and he wasn't likely to get that.  None of the Capellan units would have followed him unless they were suicidal.  The Lyran units were loyal to Katherine.  ComStar was sucking up to the Star League Council so they wouldn't have approved especially given the power plays going on in the First Circuit.  Theodore couldn't have authorized his forces to go without making himself seem like the aggressor not to mention that the DC was struggling with reintegrating all the liberated worlds as well as deal with the Nova Cats and DCMS-sponsored resistance groups who were reluctant to give up their weapons.  The League units were more than happy to head home.  Without the approval of the Star League Council, any force he deployed against the Falcons would have had to do it without the needed support (WarShip support, JumpShip support, supplies, intel, etc).

Quote
If the Fed suns side ever even cared about the Lyran side, other than to take our money and things we produced they would have helped get the falcons out.

Remind me again who sent a large portion of their military and a huge portion of the JumpShip fleet to help the Lyrans during the Clan invasion?  And who was it that ordered most of AFFS/AFFC military units to leave the Lyran Alliance.

Quote
Katherine was a much better choice.

Katherine had one priority - herself.  She surrounded herself with sycophants whose abilities were lackluster while isolating her more capable leaders if not outright ignoring them. 

With Vlad, not the falcons. Besides, that was a smart political move on her part. She would have done the same with the Falcon Khan ( Who was it Martha Pryde? At the time) if she could have. She was a good politician trying to better her nation.

She was a politician out to increase her own personal power and for that she was more than willing to sacrifice Lyran worlds.  Her plan to ally herself with the Smoke Jaguars was doomed from the start.  If she hadn't been self-deluded she would have realized that.  She should have realized from her conversations with Anastasius Focht and Phelan Kell that the Smoke Jaguar Khans would never have bothered to enter negotiations with a non-warrior freebirth.  After loudly proclaiming how willing she was to sell out the rest of the Inner Sphere, they would have sentenced her to the laborer caste as she had no appreciable skills.

I understand you're trying to paint her in a bad light. She was doing her best to helo her nation with out bloodshed. It's the way politicians work.

Politicians study their opposition and act appropriately.  A real politician would have sent more appropriate negotiators to the Smoke Jaguars to open negotiations.

Quote
Victor was just more than happy to leave the nation he was in charge of.  What did he think would happen when he abandoned his people?

He left his nation in the hands of people he trusted.  Unfortunately the people he left to support his sister didn't live up to their charge and support her properly.

Quote
At least Katherine was there to be a ruler instead of trying to play hero.

It that she was a politician through and through.  Increasing one's personal power is first and foremost the most important task on her agenda.

Quote
Given time I'm sure she could have taken out the falcons.

In her dreams maybe.  She had the opportunity to do so early in her reign while the Falcons were still recovering from the Refusal War but let the opportunity slip by(understandable as she was still securing the Lyran throne and was casting herself as a Peacemaker compared to her brother the Warrior) but she was later given a second chance to reclaim at least some Lyran worlds while the Jade Falcons were distracted by the Steel Vipers.  At that time Vlad and his Wolves would have been more than willing to further distract the Falcons by trying to seize additional worlds for themselves.  This was before the FCCW broke out so she could have also used the opportunity to further weaken pro-Victor forces while reserving the high-profile victories for her units.  But no, her ascent to First Lord was more important.

However, it is probably good that she didn't as she would have appointed another sycophant who would have led her forces to utter defeat and encouraged the Falcons to take more worlds than they did during the FCCW.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Maelwys on 06 April 2015, 18:39:14
I'm sure if the Steiner-Davions hadn't destroyed the 2nd Star League, the WoB would have gladly given Victor the resources needed to destroy the Clans.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 April 2015, 19:23:26
Vic was too much a pure-purity-white-knight to accept the Word's help.  Especially since it would have involved nukes, bioweapons, and the freaky MD soldiers.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 06 April 2015, 19:28:10
Victor abandoned my respect as a feudal leader when he abandoned the throne to Katrina. He should have stayed away if he wasn't going to take back his rightful throne. If he had immediately come back, yes there would have been some fighting, but it would have nowhere been as devastating, destructive and bloody as it was when he did finally got off Omi and decided he wanted his toy back. Make up your mind, boy. Dithering, in a leader, causes more calamity than bad decisions.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 April 2015, 20:09:53
He also had to do everything himself: he couldn't appoint people to do the tasks.  Look at how he responded to Melissa's assassination.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 06 April 2015, 20:37:30
He also had to do everything himself: he couldn't appoint people to do the tasks.  Look at how he responded to Melissa's assassination.

Apparently he wasn't paying attention when they covered "delegation" in that military academy he attended.  ;D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 April 2015, 22:21:03
He probably skipped that day.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 06 April 2015, 22:58:14
I'm sure if the Steiner-Davions hadn't destroyed the 2nd Star League, the WoB would have gladly given Victor the resources needed to destroy the Clans.

Not at the time.  They were still playing nice and trying to join the Star League not to mention they were still building up their military with most of their resources being stolen from various Great Houses.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: foxbat on 07 April 2015, 02:04:33
[...] By the time Vic got back to the Inner Sphere, Kat had taken over the FedCom[...]

A very good point you made here, Deadborder. There was no trust between Theodore and Katherine, because of her burning desire to grab the Star League and use it for her own schemes. Removing Victor from the Avalonian throne certainly did not help the Lyran cause against the Falcons.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 07 April 2015, 09:05:34
The Lyrans had never put effort in trying to reclaim any of their worlds, either.  Heck, about the time of the Refusal War, it seemed like there was a total abandonment of any sort of anti-Clan action on that side of the Sphere.

They managed to take Pandora from the Falcons in the 3030s.  I know there were others... just can't think of the names.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 07 April 2015, 09:12:38
They managed to take Pandora from the Falcons in the 3030s.  I know there were others... just can't think of the names.

 :o  The Falcons invaded the Inner Sphere at the end of the 4SW?!!?!!?!  Damn I must have been asleep to have missed that.   ;D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 07 April 2015, 10:02:14
3130s.  Been a hard day already.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 07 April 2015, 10:38:27
While that is true, it's also well outside the scope of the discussion, which was during the Clan Invasion and FedCom Civil War eras- the only time the Lyrans actually captured worlds back from the Falcons then was Operation Audacity, and that was a reactive measure to blunt yet another Falcon invasion.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Arvanna on 07 April 2015, 13:23:07
Something else going back to the tripe about the Suns not tryng to help the Lyrans during the initial invasion. Lets assume Hanse decided the Capellans wouldn't have done anything, he orders the Fed Sun Command to strip the Sun's of most of it's units, whats the transit time we're talking about, assuming they have enough jumpships to even move them from one side of the FedCom to the other. Could they have moved enough units to have made any real difference before Tukuyaid and the truce?

Course in order to speed things up he can't bother with upgrading any of these units so they'd basically be just more LvL 1 Cannon Fodder.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 April 2015, 13:58:35
He was pretty successful in doing it during the 4th SW, but that was to expand his own sphere if influence. As seen on the tabletop, intro tech units are pretty effective against same amounts of bv in clan mechs.

 You can't take what's written in books to make the clans super awesome as what happens on the tabletop.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 07 April 2015, 16:15:42
Something else going back to the tripe about the Suns not tryng to help the Lyrans during the initial invasion. Lets assume Hanse decided the Capellans wouldn't have done anything, he orders the Fed Sun Command to strip the Sun's of most of it's units, whats the transit time we're talking about, assuming they have enough jumpships to even move them from one side of the FedCom to the other. Could they have moved enough units to have made any real difference before Tukuyaid and the truce?

No need to assume.  Hanse did strip a large number of units from the FedSuns half and sent them to fight the Clans.  Initially only moving units from the Crucis March, he later included units from the Capellan and Draconis Marches as well.  Duke Sandoval was more than a little upset with how many units were being moved out of his March.  Aware that mercenary units were more mobile than House units he also tried to redeploy several mercenary units but terrified from reports received of the Clans (interesting since ComStar was blocking news of the Clans from spreading) several mercenary units dawdled until their contracts expired while several others deserted.  Two of the deserting units - Fuchida's Fusiliers and Vinson's Vigilantes turned to piracy.

As far as technology goes, several of the units had already being receiving technology upgrades before the Clan Invasion and once the "agreement" with Thomas Marik was reached kits were rushed to the units deployed along the Clan front.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 07 April 2015, 17:29:35
As seen on the tabletop, intro tech units are pretty effective against same amounts of bv in clan mechs.

 You can't take what's written in books to make the clans super awesome as what happens on the tabletop.

Except in fiction that lone Timber Wolf can cut down six or seven intro-tech 'mechs on it's own.  The Invasion era Clans were neigh unstoppable other than a few battles in writing.  I assume we are talking fiction here and not tabletop?  Because yeah, tabletop is whole other beast!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 April 2015, 17:31:26
For sure... Just look at Aiden's small laser.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 07 April 2015, 18:37:08
For sure... Just look at Auden's small laser.

AKA Aidan's Boomstick.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Arvanna on 07 April 2015, 20:59:12
AKA Aidan's Boomstick.

I always assumed it was a Small Naval Laser hence how he was taking out Comguard Mechs with single shots it seemed  :D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 April 2015, 09:50:59
Back to Lyran stuff... Has any one used any of the new Zeus-x varients from 3145?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 08 April 2015, 10:30:36
Once.

It sucked.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 10 April 2015, 14:10:02
They aren't as new as one might think.
-X1 to -X3 were already presented with the old Record Sheets Dark Age I, only the -X4 is a new spinoff ... of the same crap.
Sorry to say, but these models are not worth the effort.
-X1 is a short range brawler. And if it gets into distance it will die horribly. Remember: only arms and legs are covered with reactive armor, the vulnerable torso with its huge XXL-engine not.
-X2 fields an XXL-engine and composite armor. It has only a slighltly better range to deal with enemies, but a single ER-PPC is something even a light mech with less sophisticated material can wield.
-X3 is the jumper. And more or less as good as an Uziel -8S at about 10 times the price tag. Better armor is offset by XXL and composite structure.
-X4 is a command mech with some long range weapons in order to keep the Kommandant-Hauptmann from getting to close to the front line. Unfortunately the enemy should know what to do, if a -X4 enters the battlefield. And by the way... why the hell mounting a light gauss? Can be detonated, weighs a ton and is depending on ammo.
Then there are the Stacy Zeus-X. These are a different cup of coffee.
The basic model fields a light engine instead of the XXL. Big difference in survivability. LB-X 20 or heavy PPC - both hurt, but at different distances. No armor experiments.
The special Stacy Zeus-X is not my breed because of the PFD. Maybe because i got it detonated by a lucky shot. Otherwise not a bad decision.

After all i stick to my opinion: If it is not clanbuild, every mech from TRO 3145 LC is not worth it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 10 April 2015, 15:20:20
Back to Lyran stuff... Has any one used any of the new Zeus-x varients from 3145?

I don't care about cost or anything like that.  I just play the game for fun.  That said, I'm a huge fan of the Zeus X3 and have used it on MegaMek and in person to great effect.  I've also used the X4 as a command ride.  Works well in that capacity though MM wasn't giving the +1 to initiative for the extra seat sadly.  It's firepower is underwealming, which of course matches it the other Zeus' that don't have an X on it.  I have never used the X1 or X2 as they are just too short ranged focused for me.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Lyran_Rainboom on 11 April 2015, 16:55:21
I've only tried out the X4, and it felt pretty lackluster. I understand what it's going for -- a command 'Mech that keeps its distance and provides initiative. But personally, I'd rather just forego the small bonus and pilot a Viking IIC. It provides far more survivability, and can throw out a respectable amount of damage.

The X3 looks fun... but I don't think I'd switch out my Neanderthal for it. Now that's a hilarious (and dangerous) 'Mech to use, even if it's not totally Lyran.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 April 2015, 11:31:03
So are these X varients kind of new toy syndrome like we got with the 3050?

 I don't really follow the DA stuff so I didn't know about the DA record sheets.

I do like the Stacy with the blue light magic shields. I haven't gotten to field one as of yet, but I really want to.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 12 April 2015, 12:16:35
I don't really follow the DA stuff so I didn't know about the DA record sheets.

Several designs that got a first record sheet with the MWDA record sheets were entered into the TRO 3145 LC. Some of these sheets were new toy syndrome, several others utter stupidity even back than. Just a small overview what was already available through MWDA RS:
DI Schmitt (base-model, the targeting computer model is a new entry)
Firestarter FS9-M2 and -M3 (-M4 is a new one ... but still underwhelming)
Zeus X, Base mode, -X2, -X3.

Just to keep to the basic question: has anyone ever put a Storm Raider to good use? In my opinion it (in any of its four configurations) rivals house Mariks Violator in the quest for worst BattleMech 3145.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 12 April 2015, 13:13:33
X1 - extremely vulnerable XXL engine combined with MRMs. LOL. And costing 2 149 BV? Next!

X2 - MRMs again, XXL engine again and BV almost 2 000? Next!

X3 - Tarcomped ER PPC and Jump Jets? Surely there must some BV-cheaper 'Mech than this Zeus that costs more than 2 200 BV.

X4 - The problem with this 'Mech is that the Lyrans already have suitable ZEU-9S2.
ZEU-9S2 is armed with standard GR doing the full damage instead of -X4's LGR, has twin LRM-15 instead of -X4's single LRM-20, and has the same ER Large Laser. And it costs only 1700 BV instead of -X4's 2 222.

So is in TRO3145-Steiner a Zeus that doesn't suck?

Yes, there is one.

ZEU-9WD Zeus-X.

It's a short- and medium-range brawler armed with double headcapping Heavy PPC/LBX-20 combo. It's a bit light on armor, but it comes with Light engine which means that it can lose a side torso and it will still survive. With enough heat sinks to alphastrike round after round.

And it costs 1 716 BV.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 02 May 2015, 13:48:50
X3 - Tarcomped ER PPC and Jump Jets? Surely there must some BV-cheaper 'Mech than this Zeus that costs more than 2 200 BV.

Not with that much armor... an Uziel 8S does about the same job, though minus the armor and long range weapon.  Trade off's honestly.  I've had that Zeus work very well in a combined arms force of other fast units, BA, and Arrow IV Yellow Jackets
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 02 May 2015, 16:49:44
Are we still cranking out 4-legged BA in the current era?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 May 2015, 17:02:32
Fenrir II, baby.  Fear it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 02 May 2015, 17:19:50
Anyone else here fond of the Bolan Province?  I think that may be my favorite Lyran region.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 May 2015, 10:47:49
Donegal here.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: desaints on 03 May 2015, 23:00:32
Anyone else here fond of the Bolan Province?  I think that may be my favorite Lyran region.

Any special reason behind it? I'm partial to the Cavanaugh II theatre myself.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 04 May 2015, 00:02:24
Anyone else here fond of the Bolan Province?  I think that may be my favorite Lyran region.

My mercs are just about to head into Bolan in the post-Jihad setting. Specifically Chukchi III working for Maxwell Metals. I've rolled up a fun little security/assist with the counter-insurgency contact.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 04 May 2015, 19:52:38
Timbiqui!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 04 May 2015, 23:34:45
You better not let anything happen to the Timbiqui Dark production line!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 05 May 2015, 03:16:29
You better not let anything happen to the Timbiqui Dark production line!
Don't worry, the brewery is safe. We, people of the Free Worlds League, have taken care of it.    [cheers]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 05 May 2015, 06:43:41
Don't worry, the brewery is safe. We, people of the Free Worlds League, have taken care of it.    [cheers]

OK, its war now pal.  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 05 May 2015, 13:01:19
To make it worse, they changed the recipe and it' now Czech-style Pils instead of a Stout
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 05 May 2015, 13:32:20
To make it worse, they changed the recipe and it' now Czech-style Pils instead of a Stout
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSqO16fA9yY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSqO16fA9yY)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 05 May 2015, 16:45:03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSqO16fA9yY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSqO16fA9yY)

Land of my ancestors!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 03 June 2015, 14:15:36
Going by Ben's Lyran tweets things aren't looking good for the Commonwealth in the 3145 - 3150 time frame:-

Prior to the Jade Falcon assault on Arc-Royal in 3146, Khan Hazen declared the WIX dezgra targets unworthy of honorable combat

Leutnant Chase piloted one of the many Swallows that were absorbed into the Buena Collective Military.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 June 2015, 10:07:39
Yea, looks like we lost some systems. I feel like we've just been chewed up since the clan invasion. Loosing systems without a gain ever. I'm wondering if we're the new CapCon.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 June 2015, 10:14:18
We apparently gained a few systems from the Falcons during the time skip, but the Falcons gained them right back plus a whole lot more.  There's a reason I grumble about the Falcons' plot armor.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 04 June 2015, 10:25:17
We apparently gained a few systems from the Falcons during the time skip, but the Falcons gained them right back plus a whole lot more.  There's a reason I grumble about the Falcons' plot armor.

That is generally true of anyone that has come into contact with the clans.  They need to live somewhere in the Inner Sphere.  They can't go home.  Those bridges are burnt!

Things look a little grim for the Lyrans.  To be fair, they had it coming after that stunt Melissa II tried to pull.

We apparently gained a few systems from the Falcons during the time skip, but the Falcons gained them right back plus a whole lot more.  There's a reason I grumble about the Falcons' plot armor.

There were also all the worlds picked up in HAMMERFALL.  Those were all well and good until Melissa decided she wanted FWL planets and TWO pet clans.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 June 2015, 11:11:36
That is generally true of anyone that has come into contact with the clans.  They need to live somewhere in the Inner Sphere.  They can't go home.  Those bridges are burnt!

I grumble about plot armor because in every conflict since REVIVAL, the Falcons have come out ahead.  Even when they've "lost" they always end up with a net gain in territory and all their enemies mysteriously forget to do anything to capitalize on their weakened state.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 04 June 2015, 12:00:06
I see it differently.  For such a belligerent faction willing to keep fighting until losses become wins, the Falcons sure have been stuck in limbo.  Until Malvina came along they didn't budge all that far from their OZ.  Their greatest prize thus far has been not dying to the Wolves, Vipers, Hellions, Society or Star League.  They lost Twycross, Pandora for a time and Ironhold.  But, the scrappy birdies keep fighting.  For all their rhetoric the Falcons have been fighting for qualified wins just to stay alive.

Until Malvina.  Now it seems like the Falcons are reigning supreme.  I can't say that displeases me.  But, like being a fan of the Draconis Combine, i'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 June 2015, 09:56:32
Got some CSO love today in the form of a Zeus&X 4 by mastergunz.

And for some reason I can never link anything here from my phone...


Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 11 June 2015, 04:59:26
Maybe just personal rumbling, but... i can't avoid the feeling, that lyrans still get the entire bashing of TPTB. If there is a way to kick some lyrans, let's do it. The return of the social generals? No prob. An idiot like Thomas Hogarth as general? No prob, as long as he is lyran. Several idiotic ideas that backfire? No prob, e.g. pumping billions of Steiners in the renewal of Comstar (which turn out to rebuild its Comguards - thereby steering up the RotS - and alienating the RotS towards the LC), placing the Crusader wolves on the other border (as nobody would ever imagine that they would bit the hand that feeds them, but we needed a second clan for a pincer attack on the LC... bravo...  >:(), keeping military production down when a menacing an mad Jade Falcon rises just on the other side of the border (or should i say trench?). Even the mech designs that were slated for lyran troops were miserable compared to other 3145 designs (others may have there share of lemons, but not as concentrated than the LC. Hardly every Dark Age mech aside the clanproduced is just idiotic crap).
In my opinion the stupid pills for lyrans have been so massivly overdosed that it would take a Mary Sue of a Trillian to stop the lyran beating.
Sorry to say, but although i am lyran fanboy i kick the timeline out of the window. Finally trashing the LC just legitimates that step for me.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 11 June 2015, 07:54:39
Don't worry, the brewery is safe. We, people of the Free Worlds League, have taken care of it.    [cheers]

Guess the people behind the Buena independence movement don't believe you.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 11 June 2015, 08:15:31
Even the mech designs that were slated for lyran troops were miserable compared to other 3145 designs (others may have there share of lemons, but not as concentrated than the LC.

Surely you jest.

Or don't own TRO 3145 FWL.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 June 2015, 10:15:20
 The Viking IIc and Götterdammërung beg to differ with your assessment of lemons. It could be much worse. We could have gotten that horrible stalker the FWL got.

 The new Zeuses aren't great but serviceable
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 11 June 2015, 10:34:57
I actually like the new King Crab.  Not as instantly overwhelming as the original, but far more versatile.

Amd we got some very fun tanks. >:D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 11 June 2015, 10:40:23
The tanks are good.  The Battle Armor is a close 2nd or 3rd for best of the 3145 series.

I'm a fan of the Ursa.  It is a really bizarre quad.  Maybe not the most effective mech ever made, but interesting.  Likewise the Jaguar.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 11 June 2015, 11:29:37
Surely you jest.

Or don't own TRO 3145 FWL.

Sorry, i own. Really bad FWL designs are the Violator and the Stalker II (for its +2 on every pilot roll). But a Havoc or Carronade? A Gambit or Anzu? I can't say these are bad designs and others are not far behind. I said that other nations have their share of lemons and the FWL might have the second highest score, but sorry, they are far less beaten with craptastic trashcans.

The Viking IIc and Götterdammërung beg to differ with your assessment of lemons. It could be much worse. We could have gotten that horrible stalker the FWL got.

 The new Zeuses aren't great but serviceable
Yep, the Viking IIc is what i call 'clanmade'. It is a design that is purely Clantech. Just like the Jaguar. I tested both and both designs work. The rest? Not so much. The Götterdämmerung is crap. It's biggest gain is its massive armor, but other, more conservative designs would benefit of the same attribute. The compact reactor on the other hand is extremly heavy, the sidemounted life supports with nothing surrounding them beg for a critical hits and with a roll back to a normal reactor i would gain even more weight (and parts), that could fill the torso sides. I have tested both, the original Götterdämmerung and my redesign and i had to say, that the original is just another piece of crap.

And the Zeus X will die like flies. X and X2 are more or less short/mediumrange brawlers with patchwork armor (in which case the more important parts of the mech don`t field the benefical reactive armor), XXL reactor and a highly sensitive Composite internal structure. And in the case of the X2: if i need 9 tons of additional component armor i could change back to a standard XL without a loss. The X3 is the jumper, but better armor is once again offset by its composite structure. And a Uziel -8S can do more or less the same. The X4, by the way the only really new one, is a command vehicle and as this it begs to be beaten just by being on the battlefield. Still with XXL and composite structure to make things easy.

I actually like the new King Crab.  Not as instantly overwhelming as the original, but far more versatile.

Amd we got some very fun tanks. >:D
King Crab with small cockpit ... what a wonderful ...  >:(. Only safing grace is missing hardened armor to get on pair with the Stalker II. Light ACs? Scrap them instantly and use the wasted weight for something useful. For personal use i redesigned the mech already and it might be more conservative but far superior.
By the way, has anybody ever mentioned, that the LC, apart from clanbuild mechs, does not use clanmade weapons in their machines like any other great house does?

As for tanks: the Kelswa ... and what else?
Winterhawk APC: paperthin armor because of an additional SRM 2 (weighing 2 tons including ammo for more or less no effect).
DI Multipurpose VTOL? I never thought i would ever say that, but ... overarmored. VTOLs die because of rotor hits, not because of a thrashed hull structure. The weaponry - even the gunship version - is not that powerful compaired to several other designs. Although it is not a total trashy design.
Swallow WiGE? No turret for its entire armament, which - to make things worse - is extremly short ranged. It has to make boom and zoom attacks and hope, that nobody hits it, because the first movement modifier hit will leave it more or less immobile (it takes a 6 to drop its movement down to the movement threshhold (which means it needs to land in order to make a turn) and a 8 to turn it into a bunker... if the hit comes from the front).
Schildkröte? It might be harder to immobilise this vehicle, but it is easy enough to hit this tank as it is slow as its namesake. Luckily it can take some beating as it will receive a lot of beating.
Manticore II? Fully amphibious eats 7 tons it doesn't have to spare. Semi amphibious could have worked as well. No short range weaponry so let us hope there is no infantry anywhere.
DI Schmitt? The basic design is a crime related to the infamous MWDA record sheets. I just say standard flamers instead of vehicle flamers... The TC-model is the only new one, but still without heavy FF armor, which it would need dearly as an 80 ton vehicle.
Kelswa? The only tank i could life with. Although i would kick out those heavy machine guns milehigh. Just worthless ultrashort ranged heavy crap.
Gulltopr? It's biggest asset was its hardened armor, but sorry: hardened armor is not available for Omnivehicles. With the errataed massive armor it is purely bunker tech as it will be stopped within the first few turns. I can only hope, that only two gauss rifles and the massive armor can save your day. (Or a personal loadout that might work better.)

Maybe i am overcritical but as long as it depends on designs only i have no hope.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 June 2015, 11:51:28
The Götterdammërung isn't a good mech? It takes forever to kill it. Sure it's got some quirks but that's what makes it fun. The Viking IIc is a clan mech...that apparently we're building. Plus there's the gauntlet. Another one I like.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 11 June 2015, 12:14:27
The Götterdammërung isn't a good mech? It takes forever to kill it. Sure it's got some quirks but that's what makes it fun. The Viking IIc is a clan mech...that apparently we're building. Plus there's the gauntlet. Another one I like.

Well if the #TRO3150 quotes are correct, we were building until the Jade Falcons took the planet.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 11 June 2015, 12:50:10
Dirty Harry, you appear to be defining mechs as "crap" simply because they aren't fully optimized.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 June 2015, 12:54:49
Well if the #TRO3150 quotes are correct, we were building until the Jade Falcons took the planet.

I'll believe it when it comes out. I'd hate to think they gave us something this nice just to give it to our most hated enemy.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 11 June 2015, 13:18:52
The tanks are good.  The Battle Armor is a close 2nd or 3rd for best of the 3145 series.

I'm a fan of the Ursa.  It is a really bizarre quad.  Maybe not the most effective mech ever made, but interesting.  Likewise the Jaguar.
The Ursa... who built a Quadmech with MASC? Why not a Supercharger? If the MASC fries the Ursa ends with a 1/2 movement. Burning out the Supercharger wouldn't be as desasterous as a burnt MASC. And it would be more compact and lighter...

The Jaguar is built - like the Viking IIc - with massive support from Clan Wolf in Exile. So it is more Clanmech than lyran product. And it is a little beast that works.

The Götterdammërung isn't a good mech? It takes forever to kill it. Sure it's got some quirks but that's what makes it fun. The Viking IIc is a clan mech...that apparently we're building. Plus there's the gauntlet. Another one I like.

Nope, the Götterdämmerung ist isn't a good mech. It's selling point is its maximum armor. Something more conventional constructions can field as well. If this armor is pierced critical hits hit really important parts rather fast. The real dead weight of this mech is its compact reactor. A redesign is complicated but possible (although it ends with a Thunderbolt clon more or less).

Viking IIc - as said above - is a product of WiE, that is manufactured for the LC.

Gauntlet has more or less the same problem as the Ursa: why a MASC? Why not like the Capellans a Supercharger, thereby saving weight and important criticals in this already cramped mech? And to counter the request: MASC + optional Supercharger is only a minor gain. More weight for a more flexible Omnimech would have been better.

Well if the #TRO3150 quotes are correct, we were building until the Jade Falcons took the planet.

And once again ... bash the lyrans. They can take it.  >:(
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 11 June 2015, 13:40:37
I strongly suggest that you try out some of the mechs you're dismissing.  It's quite likely you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 11 June 2015, 13:47:30
Sorry, i have tested them. I know what i am writing about.
If it is not clanmade it is trash.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 11 June 2015, 13:53:51
So your games are nothing but Hellstars?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 June 2015, 14:09:19
Götterdammërung= hardened armor. That's a tough but to crack. It's not a dueling mech. It's meant to be used with a lance.

If they're bringing all optimized mechs like hellstars just bring Zeus Stacy's.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 11 June 2015, 14:19:23
Sorry, i have tested them. I know what i am writing about.
If it is not clanmade it is trash.
Sorry, but I can not quite agree. There are some designs that are quite good even if they are not ClanTech:

Winterhawk is just a differently named Heavy Hover APC (SRM). The difference is that Winterhawk is faster (which means that it can better transport your infantry and BA where you need it) and it sports four-tons infantry compartment (that's a significant advntage because it can acomodate the majority of common BA types; Heavy Hover APC (SRM) sports only three-ton infantry compartment). And of course its BV is really low.

DI Multipurpose VTOL let me deploy one team of BA troopers where I needed it, harass enemy with its Light PPC and spot for Semi-guided LRMs with TAG.

Swallow. I used it instead of Saladin and I really enjoyed it. Yes, it's slightly slower and I had to get used to WiGE rules. But common Saladin comes with about 30 points of armor while Swallow has almost 150 points of armor - with the same weapon and almost same speed.

Kelswa. No problem here. It brings a pair of Gauss rifles on the table, and with five tons of ammo. With relatively reasonable BV. Nothing fancy, but it does reliably it's job of a heavy tank.

Gauntlet. I like the older Bushwacker, but those meager 10 shots for its Autocannon ...
I am pleased with Gauntlet's Heavy PPC.

As a FWL-player I have used the Scourge a few times. While it lacks the Falconer's second big gun, having 27 points more of armor is not bad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 11 June 2015, 14:23:41
The Ursa... who built a Quadmech with MASC? Why not a Supercharger? If the MASC fries the Ursa ends with a 1/2 movement. Burning out the Supercharger wouldn't be as desasterous as a burnt MASC. And it would be more compact and lighter...

Because it already has a XL engine, which makes it vulnerable to engines hits in 3 torso locations.  The MASC penalty is also mitigated by it being a quad.  Slower after failure, but also less likely to fall as a result.

Quote
Nope, the Götterdämmerung ist isn't a good mech. It's selling point is its maximum armor. Something more conventional constructions can field as well. If this armor is pierced critical hits hit really important parts rather fast. The real dead weight of this mech is its compact reactor. A redesign is complicated but possible (although it ends with a Thunderbolt clon more or less).

I think you're missing the point of the Götterdämmerung.  It is more than just the armor.  It is also the arrangement of the weapons intended to keep it fighting long after other mechs would have gone down.  Tear off a side torso?  It still has the CT weapons.  Take off the head?  No problem, it has a torso mounted cockpit.  Even when the damage transfers to the CT it still has a well packed number of crits that would be less than fatal.  Meanwhile it continues to put out 25 damage a turn in ERMLs and a kick.  Not too shabby.

And it's a heavy.  That's the important part.  It doesn't eat up an assault bay and benefits from whatever arbitrary weight class differences there are between heavies and assaults based on your optional rules.

Quote
And once again ... bash the lyrans. They can take it.  >:(

Maybe they should have thought about that before subjecting the Free Worlds States to the same treatment...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 11 June 2015, 16:19:25
So your games are nothing but Hellstars?

Thanks god it is more diversified. But at least i know what a 'perfected' mech would look like (although there ought to be a way to counter even the most perfected vehicle).

Götterdammërung= hardened armor. That's a tough but to crack. It's not a dueling mech. It's meant to be used with a lance.

Nope. Götterdämmerung fields heavy FF armor, not hardened. Big difference. It just saves a ton more material than conventional FF.
Sorry, but I can not quite agree. There are some designs that are quite good even if they are not ClanTech:

Winterhawk is just a differently named Heavy Hover APC (SRM). The difference is that Winterhawk is faster (which means that it can better transport your infantry and BA where you need it) and it sports four-tons infantry compartment (that's a significant advntage because it can acomodate the majority of common BA types; Heavy Hover APC (SRM) sports only three-ton infantry compartment). And of course its BV is really low.

DI Multipurpose VTOL let me deploy one team of BA troopers where I needed it, harass enemy with its Light PPC and spot for Semi-guided LRMs with TAG.

Swallow. I used it instead of Saladin and I really enjoyed it. Yes, it's slightly slower and I had to get used to WiGE rules. But common Saladin comes with about 30 points of armor while Swallow has almost 150 points of armor - with the same weapon and almost same speed.

Kelswa. No problem here. It brings a pair of Gauss rifles on the table, and with five tons of ammo. With relatively reasonable BV. Nothing fancy, but it does reliably it's job of a heavy tank.

Gauntlet. I like the older Bushwacker, but those meager 10 shots for its Autocannon ...
I am pleased with Gauntlet's Heavy PPC.

As a FWL-player I have used the Scourge a few times. While it lacks the Falconer's second big gun, having 27 points more of armor is not bad.

Winterhawk: Still the SRM 2 is worthless. The Winterhawk has 2.5 tons of armor and that is not enough. It is based on a one-way delivery of its BA passengers because it won't see its way back home or anywhere else.

DI Multipurpose: It is not (entirely) the weapons loadout i am complaining about it is the overly massive armor. Shave of 2 tons it will still be enough. I lost 9 out of 10 VTOLs due to rotor destruction.

Swallow: Saladin was more often a one way ticket to hell than not. Even with more armor the Swallow will die because of the movement criticals. TO-vehicle-rules can help, but the Swallow still tends to strand somewhere the pilot don't want to, keeping it as a bunkertech for one or two more rounds.

Kelswa: Just the heavy MGs that tend to gain ... nothing.

Gauntlet: Supercharger = 1 slot, 1,5 tons. MASC = 3 slots, 3 tons. That is a difference of 2 slots (in a mech as cramped as the Gauntlet) and 1,5 tons of additional pod space. (or 1 ton and more optimized armor)

Scourge: Worked out the missing 5th jump jet? That's what drives me mad. It is not to be compaired to the Falconer, it is a worsened Jinggau.

Because it already has a XL engine, which makes it vulnerable to engines hits in 3 torso locations.  The MASC penalty is also mitigated by it being a quad.  Slower after failure, but also less likely to fall as a result.

I think you're missing the point of the Götterdämmerung.  It is more than just the armor.  It is also the arrangement of the weapons intended to keep it fighting long after other mechs would have gone down.  Tear off a side torso?  It still has the CT weapons.  Take off the head?  No problem, it has a torso mounted cockpit.  Even when the damage transfers to the CT it still has a well packed number of crits that would be less than fatal.  Meanwhile it continues to put out 25 damage a turn in ERMLs and a kick.  Not too shabby.

And it's a heavy.  That's the important part.  It doesn't eat up an assault bay and benefits from whatever arbitrary weight class differences there are between heavies and assaults based on your optional rules.

Maybe they should have thought about that before subjecting the Free Worlds States to the same treatment...

Ursa: The XL-engine is not the problem. The Ursa is equally dead meat if the MASC fries. That is what happened when i tested it and my opponent had an easy target with its remaining +0 target movement modifier. The MASC penalty is not mitigated by its quad displacement. Every single leg of its four reveives a critical hit with nothing but activators to destroy. It is more likely that the Ursa survives a resultant reactor damage than the effective bunkertech play with an effective +2 on every pilot roll.

The primary asset of a Götterdämmerung is its massive armor. Second is the relocated cockpit. But the higher survivability is nothing but propaganda. It sucks at survivability. That is my expirience. If one of both side armors is hit critical, it automatically hits the life support. With only 24 points of cooling capacity and zero remaining overheating (if one doesn't want to hurt the pilot) the fifth ER-medium laser is shut down immediatly. Even worse every following crit to that open side torso is directly redirected to the center torso, where its able to kill the pilot long before the end of the mech. That happened twice to me. So the centerline mounted design is stylish, but doesn't work at all.



The FWL retaliation is just another point of massed lyran stupid pills. It is not that i accept that point, but just the massed stupidity that is (always?) directed to the LC.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 June 2015, 18:06:04
While I have to agree that we have been given our share rough times with some poor decisions I don't think it's always been that way. We have had great commanders and poor ones, great Archons and poor ones.

 Through most of the game, from 3005 on we've had very good commanders and leaders. Caesar Steiner, Adam Steiner just to name a couple.
 As much as I dislike Victor, he is a brilliant commander too. *spits* sorry, bad taste there.

 The Social generals have played a very little part in our history and only really have been a problem in this current timeline.

 So... The Gott is bad because it can be blown up, the pilot can get killed and you can't use weapons after a torso gets taken out? OK, give me bad mechs then.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 12 June 2015, 09:04:19
Winterhawk: Still the SRM 2 is worthless. The Winterhawk has 2.5 tons of armor and that is not enough. It is based on a one-way delivery of its BA passengers because it won't see its way back home or anywhere else.
As I said above, the Winterhawk does better job than the Heavy Hover APC (SRM) in its primary duty: Fast moving infantry and BA across the battlefield. It's faster than Heavy APC, it can carry standard BA teams while Heavy APC can't, and it has lower BV than Heavy APC (SRM) which means that you can spend the "spared" BV on better BA.

And as I said above, the Winterhawk is APC, not MICV. I don't think that using the Winterhawk in the first line is the right idea.

DI Multipurpose: It is not (entirely) the weapons loadout i am complaining about it is the overly massive armor. Shave of 2 tons it will still be enough. I lost 9 out of 10 VTOLs due to rotor destruction.
Better to have more armor and not need it than to get hit and find out than your armor is too thin.

In the Dark Age there are Clan 'Mechs with Clan Large Pulse Lasers on the open market ... and such Clan LPL can destroy your weakly armored VTOL as effectively as any rotor hit. (and of course , there are many big guns with a long reach - Clan ER Large Lasers, Clan ER PPCs, Heavy PPCs, etc.)

Swallow: Saladin was more often a one way ticket to hell than not. Even with more armor the Swallow will die because of the movement criticals. TO-vehicle-rules can help, but the Swallow still tends to strand somewhere the pilot don't want to, keeping it as a bunkertech for one or two more rounds.
The same case as with the DI Multipurpose VTOL: Not all vehicles must die because of critical hits ...

The last time I used the Swallow it took hits from (what I remember) Heavy PPC, Gauss Rifle and one or two PPC hits.

Such beating would have been more than sufficient to punch through the Saladin's armor, but the Swallow survived and kept hitting enemy 'Mechs with its Class 20 LBX. It does the Saladin's work, but with 500% more armor. Personally I am okay with it.

Kelswa: Just the heavy MGs that tend to gain ... nothing.
Your Kelswa has more armor than both models of the Marik Bulwark, it has more ammunition, it has CASE, it has back-up energy weapons and secondary anti-infantry weapons (on the Dark Age battlefield filled with combined arms formations). And for all these bonuses you pay about the same BV as the Marik players pay for their Bulwark that lacks all these things.

Gauntlet: Supercharger = 1 slot, 1,5 tons. MASC = 3 slots, 3 tons. That is a difference of 2 slots (in a mech as cramped as the Gauntlet) and 1,5 tons of additional pod space. (or 1 ton and more optimized armor)
That's the usual problem with the Supercharger that has been inserted into the BattleTech universe and that is so good that it often makes MASC obsolete (because I guess that about 99% of Mechs would rather take slightly more heat from damaged engine than crippled legs on a immobile 'Mech).

Scourge: Worked out the missing 5th jump jet? That's what drives me mad. It is not to be compaired to the Falconer, it is a worsened Jinggau.
The Scourge is protected with 211 points of armor which the maximum what the chassis can carry. The Jinggau has significantly worse protection (184 points).

By the way, has anybody ever mentioned, that the LC, apart from clanbuild mechs, does not use clanmade weapons in their machines like any other great house does?
Seriously?

For example:
Fenrir II
GRF-6S2 Griffin - clan-made LRMs
Zugvogel F - Clan LRMs and Clan medlasers
TFT-F11 Thunder Fox - Is TarComped Clan ER PPC mounted in turret for 360° fire arc on a a medium 'Mech with 200 points of hardened armor (effectively 400 points of standard armor) sufficient for your needs?
AV1-OJ Avatar - paired HAGs
MNL-4S Mangonel - Clan HAG and Clan lasers
SD1-OG/OF Sunder - Clan ER PPC, Clan lasers, Clan LBX, Clan LRMs
HA1-OM Hauptmann - Clan ER PPCs
HA1-OT Hauptmann - paired Clan UAC-20s
BRZ-D4 Berserker - Clan ER Mediums
XNT-7O Xanthos - armed with nothing than Clan-grade weapons

Clan Wolf (in-Exile) is no longer an independent Clan, but just a sub-faction of the Lyran Commonwealth.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 12 June 2015, 11:14:22
The Viking IIc and Götterdammërung beg to differ with your assessment of lemons.

The Viking IIC is great, but the Götterdämmerung far from a good design. Compact engine and regular torso-mounted cockpit and almost guaranteed loss of Life Support in the side torsos? Yeah, lemon-like. Could have been much better.

Anyways, I'd agree that overall the Steiner DA TRO is not exactly horrible. The BA are very good, the vehicles okay. The Würger and Trutzburg also offer interesting options.

Also, if one wants optimized Steiner designs, there is always the Lyran Fan TRO supplemental.  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 12 June 2015, 11:31:45
Well if the #TRO3150 quotes are correct, we were building until the Jade Falcons took the planet.

Is there anywhere I can read up on any 3150 quotes?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 12 June 2015, 11:39:00
Is there anywhere I can read up on any 3150 quotes?

They were on Ben Rome's Twitter, quite a few were posted in the upcoming release thread as well.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 12 June 2015, 11:43:14
They were on Ben Rome's Twitter, quite a few were posted in the upcoming release thread as well.

Thanks. Will check them out.


Really weird for 3150 TRO quotes to only feature the names of 3145 designs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Maelwys on 12 June 2015, 12:01:42
That's because 3150 is going to feature pretty much only the 3145 designs (And a few extras from a few XTROs). Its not really a new TRO, its just an advancement in the fluff of the previous TRO.

Which seems pretty questionable.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 12 June 2015, 12:03:35
Ah, now it makes sense. Thanks for bringing me up to speed.
(And I agree on the last part of your posting)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 12 June 2015, 14:08:50
its just an advancement in the fluff of the previous TRO.

Incorrect. The units in 3150 are ones that have never been seen in a print TRO. It's going to have the stuff from the 3145 series that didn't make it into the print book, stuff from the XTRO Republic series, and I wouldn't be surprised if stuff from elsewhere got in there as well. All will feature new fluff.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 12 June 2015, 14:11:57
Will it be print exclusive or also available as PDF?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 June 2015, 14:21:06
I will never agree with anyone who dislikes the Götterdammërung. This isn't a starting of a new discussion, there's already a MoTW article on it.
 I'm just saying that I really like it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 12 June 2015, 14:23:53
Will it be print exclusive or also available as PDF?

Answer:
Quote from: Adrian Gideon
Not sure yet.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: roosterboy on 12 June 2015, 15:13:44
Quote from: https://mobile.twitter.com/bhrome/status/606281855680315392
And that's all there is to say about #TRO3150, coming soon to PDFs and print format. Thanks for watching!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 12 June 2015, 15:22:53
Sounds good.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 July 2015, 18:35:56
Got some CSO love this week. Gurty by the 'Yote himself.
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=7237
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 July 2015, 18:48:29
Panzer vor!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 05 July 2015, 10:39:51
Yay massive brick of armor known as a tank! :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 July 2015, 10:44:53
Massive brick of pewter too lol
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 05 July 2015, 12:27:36
Hello forum,

I hope this is the right thread for asking a small question: what happened to the Skye Jaegers after the Jihad? The FM 3145 says they were disbanded in 3133 for questionable loyalties, but in A Bonfire of Words the Jaegers seem to exist in 3140 as one of their Mechs is standing next to the throne.
Why using a mech from a unit disbanded for being disloyal years ago for representation in the throne room?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 July 2015, 16:46:03
The dark age is not my area of knowledge, and I've still not read bonfire. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will come along. I wish I could tag people in posts like FB.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 05 July 2015, 17:16:35
Well, I am just trying to get into the Dark Ages, and this struck me as odd. First the Skye-Jäger choose to remain with the Commonwealth, rather than joining the RoS, then they are disbanded for questionable loyalty, only to pop up a few years later... Usually BT is a lot more consistent, so I am wondering what I am missing.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 05 July 2015, 19:35:49
This is probably one of those cases where sourcebook trumps novel. Likely the final state of the Dark Age LCAF hadn't been determined at the time of writing and the non - existence of rhe Sky Jaegers was one of those things
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kojak on 06 July 2015, 05:12:23
Yeah, going from the fluff in FM 3145 that scene has likely been effectively retconned into that Fafnir being from the Second Royal Guards.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 July 2015, 10:49:09
So, Fafnier are guarding the throne now? Good to know.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Øystein on 06 July 2015, 13:51:38
Yeah, going from the fluff in FM 3145 that scene has likely been effectively retconned into that Fafnir being from the Second Royal Guards.

Naah - Vedet replaced the the guard mechs (Fafnir and Definace) with First Hesperus Guards ones (Atlas and Zeus). Once he was deposed they were replaced with the current Royal Guard ones.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 06 July 2015, 16:41:34
I was never much of fan of the Royal Guards... I know they were around from the beginning, but it seems the authors have forgotten about them until the FCCW.
What a lame name anyway! (At least, the German translation "Hofgarde" is a little more creative. And it means a lot if the Germans, of all people, are the more creative ones...).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Øystein on 06 July 2015, 23:50:56
(At least, the German translation "Hofgarde" is a little more creative. And it means a lot if the Germans, of all people, are the more creative ones...).

Uhm, why is "Hofgarde" (which means "Court guard") any more creative than "Royal guard"? it means the same thing.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 July 2015, 23:57:46
Isn't hof house?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 07 July 2015, 00:32:36
I was never much of fan of the Royal Guards... I know they were around from the beginning, but it seems the authors have forgotten about them until the FCCW.

Not really, the 1st and 2nd Royal Guards RCT are the equivalent of the Otomo, 1st Davion Guards RCT, Red Lancers or Praetorian Guards and outside of small contingents are rarely deployed away from the capital world.  The 3rd Royal Guards RCT would probably have wished to have been forgotten after the thrashing the Northwind Highlanders gave them in Highlander Gambit.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 07 July 2015, 00:33:45
Isn't hof house?

Nope Hof is German for courtyard.  Haus is German for house.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 07 July 2015, 14:11:16
I was never much of fan of the Royal Guards... I know they were around from the beginning, but it seems the authors have forgotten about them until the FCCW.
What a lame name anyway! (At least, the German translation "Hofgarde" is a little more creative. And it means a lot if the Germans, of all people, are the more creative ones...).

I like Royal Guards as a name...  the LCAF has several Guards brigades.  This denotes them as the important ones. Besides, königlichgarde doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 July 2015, 14:34:19
So I used a defiance in table top game yesterday. Other than the mini being top-heavy and falling over a lot ( doesn't fit in a metal base out of the blister ) I really had no problems with it. The tsm is pretty easy to do... both ERPPC's, lb and walk... the weapons work well at range and close in, it's tough as nails. In our deployment all our mechs were interspersed with the enemy to start. I got jumped by 7 mechs in the first turn but survived without going internal ( 2 points of armor left on the left torso ) and survived to the end of the game. I even got behind a blackjack omni with my tsm active, kicked the right leg and destroyed the right torso... worked fine for me.

 Anyone else have any good stories to tell about it?

 The rest of my Lance was a Zeus 9T, bushwacher 1L, and wolfhound 3S. That bushwacher took out at least 3 and maybe 4 itself.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 07 July 2015, 15:16:57
When you've got a mini that doesn't fit on a normal hex base, you can try flipping the base upside down and gluing the mini to the underside.  I've had success doing that with several figs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 July 2015, 15:26:51
I've done it also, kind of looks goofy though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 07 July 2015, 16:00:34
I just think that Royal Guard is a terribly generic name, and the Lyrans have a lot of generic names already. Lyran Regulars, Lyran Guards, Donegal Guards, Arcturan Guards...  The Lyran line-up is a little dull, when you see the others with their Uhlans, Fusiliers, Hussars, Dragoons, Grenadiers (all of which were present in 19th century German forces), and whatever I forgot. It was probably Katherine s best decision to introduce finally a brigade with a new name, the Jaegers.

And Royal Guards is probably the dullest of the dull names I could image.  ;D


I like Royal Guards as a name...  the LCAF has several Guards brigades.  This denotes them as the important ones. Besides, königlichgarde doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

That is mostly because there was no such thing in the Prussian/German history. The Garderegimenter (Guards Regiments) were the ones close to the court, like the 1. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Foot_Guards_%28German_Empire%29).

But you are right, with all the Guards Brigades, it does make some sense. I never said I detest the concept, I just said I am not much a fan.


Not really, the 1st and 2nd Royal Guards RCT are the equivalent of the Otomo, 1st Davion Guards RCT, Red Lancers or Praetorian Guards and outside of small contingents are rarely deployed away from the capital world.  The 3rd Royal Guards RCT would probably have wished to have been forgotten after the thrashing the Northwind Highlanders gave them in Highlander Gambit.

I forgot about Highlander Gambit, thanks! Looks like my impression was wrong.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 07 July 2015, 17:57:18
I just think that Royal Guard is a terribly generic name, and the Lyrans have a lot of generic names already. Lyran Regulars, Lyran Guards, Donegal Guards, Arcturan Guards...  The Lyran line-up is a little dull, when you see the others with their Uhlans, Fusiliers, Hussars, Dragoons, Grenadiers (all of which were present in 19th century German forces), and whatever I forgot. It was probably Katherine s best decision to introduce finally a brigade with a new name, the Jaegers.

And Royal Guards is probably the dullest of the dull names I could image.  ;D

The DCMS has the Benjamin Regulars, Dieron Regulars, New Samarkand (formerly Galedon) Regulars, Pesht Regulars and the disbanded Alshain (formerly Rasalhague) Regulars.  During the Star League those regiments formed more than 50% of the DCMS and even after the losses during the SWs and the Clan Invasion they form the cornerstone of the DCMS.  Until the dissolution of the FWL, the Marik Militia Corps did the same for them.  Neither the DCMS Regulars nor the Marik Militia are particular inspired names.

Quote
I forgot about Highlander Gambit, thanks! Looks like my impression was wrong.

I forgot about the 4th Royal Guards whose destruction at the hands of the DCMS led to Operation Praying Mantis and the assassination of Coordinator Yoguchi Kurita.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 07 July 2015, 19:06:42
That is mostly because there was no such thing in the Prussian/German history. The Garderegimenter (Guards Regiments) were the ones close to the court, like the 1. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Foot_Guards_%28German_Empire%29).

Doesn't really matter, since the Royal Guards preceded Katherine Steiner and her Germanification of the people.  Further german influence would explain the Jaegers.  But, the foundation was already laid by the Marsdens.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 07 July 2015, 19:34:37
The DCMS has the Benjamin Regulars, Dieron Regulars, New Samarkand (formerly Galedon) Regulars, Pesht Regulars and the disbanded Alshain (formerly Rasalhague) Regulars.  During the Star League those regiments formed more than 50% of the DCMS and even after the losses during the SWs and the Clan Invasion they form the cornerstone of the DCMS.  Until the dissolution of the FWL, the Marik Militia Corps did the same for them.  Neither the DCMS Regulars nor the

Sorry, it seems the forum cut off some your text. Could you please elaborate?


Doesn't really matter, since the Royal Guards preceded Katherine Steiner and her Germanification of the people.  Further german influence would explain the Jaegers.  But, the foundation was already laid by the Marsdens.

It does not matter much in-universe, that is true. I was mostly argueing out-of-universe regarding the translation of the Royal Guards to Hofgarde. (Another argument in favour of the name Hofgarde rather than the more literal translation of königliche Garde is, of course, that the Archon is not a King).
Btw., the concept of the Lyran Royal Guards in BT is totally known in Prussian/German military history, just not that name. But that is no big deal to me, since the Lyrans are thankfully not Germans-in-space. It is nice to other concepts and names blending in.

Regarding Katherine Steiner-Davion, I think you right that choosing the German name of Jaegers rather than Rangers or Chasseurs is definetly a political move to win the hearts of the Lyrans, but I would not call it Germanification. Most Lyrans understood German and probably saw the name as way to set the new brigade apart from Suns's units which mostly use French and English terms.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 07 July 2015, 20:05:47
Sorry, it seems the forum cut off some your text. Could you please elaborate?


It does not matter much in-universe, that is true. I was mostly argueing out-of-universe regarding the translation of the Royal Guards to Hofgarde. (Another argument in favour of the name Hofgarde rather than the more literal translation of königliche Garde is, of course, that the Archon is not a King).
Btw., the concept of the Lyran Royal Guards in BT is totally known in Prussian/German military history, just not that name. But that is no big deal to me, since the Lyrans are thankfully not Germans-in-space. It is nice to other concepts and names blending in.

One of the reasons why they are refered to specifically as the Royal Guards is also jurisdiction.  The Royal Guards protect both the Royal Palace and the Royal Court.  Hofgarde seems fine.  Royal seems more to the point to me.  Then again, these are just localization differences.  Think of them in whatever terms pleases you most.

Quote
Regarding Katherine Steiner-Davion, I think you right that choosing the German name of Jaegers rather than Rangers or Chasseurs is definetly a political move to win the hearts of the Lyrans, but I would not call it Germanification. Most Lyrans understood German and probably saw the name as way to set the new brigade apart from Suns's units which mostly use French and English terms.

When I refer to Katherine Steiner's Germanification of the people, I mean Katherine Marsden-Steiner.  Her personal influence in the media and in Court started the widespread adoption of the German language.  The Brandenburg Edicts remodeled the LCAF and Lyran nobility closer to something a medieval German model.  However, several brigades predated Katherine Marsden-Steiner.  The Arcturan Guards and Royal Guards were known, and chances are more Guard brigades popped up in the established LCAF naming convention.  The Marsdens hailed from Donegal, which was the only provincial brigade that also held the Guards name

Katherine Steiner-Davion's creation of the Jaegers was done several centuries after Katherine Marsden Steiner started the Lyran love affair with things Germanic.  The Jaegers were recruited in a way similar to the Royal Guards themselves, a regiment from each province.  You may also recall that the FedCom Corps was eventually raided to form the Jaegers and renamed the Alliance Guards, and later Commonwealth Guards.

Basically, Lyrans like Guard brigades.  The Lyran Regulars are considered the poor cousin of the LCAF.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 07 July 2015, 20:27:26
I see. Good points. I was still too much in the FCCW...

Yeah, the LCAF really likes its Guards. Where does that leave the Regulars? A slightly less capable Guard? A slightly better militia?
I have never reviewed them a lot, but I had the impression they were doing ok.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 07 July 2015, 20:57:50
So I used a defiance in table top game yesterday. Other than the mini being top-heavy and falling over a lot ( doesn't fit in a metal base out of the blister ) I really had no problems with it. The tsm is pretty easy to do... both ERPPC's, lb and walk... the weapons work well at range and close in, it's tough as nails. In our deployment all our mechs were interspersed with the enemy to start. I got jumped by 7 mechs in the first turn but survived without going internal ( 2 points of armor left on the left torso ) and survived to the end of the game. I even got behind a blackjack omni with my tsm active, kicked the right leg and destroyed the right torso... worked fine for me.

 Anyone else have any good stories to tell about it?

 The rest of my Lance was a Zeus 9T, bushwacher 1L, and wolfhound 3S. That bushwacher took out at least 3 and maybe 4 itself.

My one time on table, I had a 8S Uziel, 2x Cavalry Attack VTOL's (Infantry), 2x Fenrir MPL points, a Sprint Interdictor, PPC Yellow Jacket, and the PPC Defiance (3T.)  I had a Jade Falcon for a teammate who had a Fire Falcon warcrime variant, Turkina E, and uh, not sure what else now.  One opponent brought like tons of BA with transports and tanks and stuff while the other guy had a Snow Raven second line star of medium 'mechs from 3055, and finally three WoB Celestial 'mechs.  A late spoiler brought in Klondike era Ghost bears, but he didn't effect me much.

Anyway, long story short, I rushed my 'mechs up the the center of two maps.  I didn't want to really get into it with the BattleArmor because, yeah, who wants too.  My Uziel and the Fire Falcon went crazy on LRM Grenadiers(?) due to their minimum range and my Uziel was also kicking Clanner butt.  The Defiance had it's TSM on full time but never got to land a physical.  The Snow Ravens went all different directions (somewhat like birds fleeing a threat, how ironic!) and I think I ended up squishing an Elemental or two, but that was it.  He wasn't a game changer in that he killed much, but he was a threat that forced others to change their game plan and flee from the threat of that big of a kick.  I also yelled "Thomas HOGARTH!" repeatedly to everyones laughing. 

The Uziel was way more deadly, and it was even more so with the PPC Yellow Jacket helping to open holes on it's targets.  The Sprint shut down the WoB hard.  Can't do anything with your C3i when ECM "lands" behind terrain and you can't shoot it.  I later sick-ed the Fenrir and Cavalry Attack VTOL's on them and the spoiler Bears helped, wanting to kill the WoB more than me.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 08 July 2015, 06:50:34

I forgot about the 4th Royal Guards whose destruction at the hands of the DCMS led to Operation Praying Mantis and the assassination of Coordinator Yoguchi Kurita.

They got bettah....
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 08 July 2015, 07:41:13
They got bettah....

Only took them three centuries.   >:D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 08 July 2015, 08:37:23
Another shrewd PR move from Tharkad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 July 2015, 09:04:01
Sounds like a fun game. Yea, not a game changer but definatly fun to play. My WoB oponent hates it when I bring on board karniv BA carriers too. Especially since... Unless it goes down with an engine hit, the ecm continues to work.

 I have yet to use an uziel other than in MW 4. Time to try it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 08 July 2015, 17:38:55
I would appreciate some help: what novels do I have to read to know what happened to the LC in the Dark Ages? Thanks in Advance!
(Another may be if the DA novels are all worth reading...)

PS: from the FM:3145 it seems to look bad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 08 July 2015, 18:07:20
PS: from the FM:3145 it seems to look bad.

Understatement.  And the hints/tidbits we have been getting haven't shown any light at the end of the tunnel.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 08 July 2015, 18:28:57
Understatement.  And the hints/tidbits we have been getting haven't shown any light at the end of the tunnel.

Unfortunately, Steiner is in a bad plot place.. they're the victims of the the Mary Sue of 3145: The Wolf Empire, despite having no lower castemen, supply, logistics, resources, etc.. was able to conquer any Steiner world they saw fit.. the only thing holding them back is their preference for RotS worlds.  The only bright spot we have hints of thus far is the possibility that Stone might prove to be the Mary Sue of 3150 and ultimately punk Alaric.

I also have a pet theory that the Wolves and Steiner are going to be combined into one faction, assuming Stone does NOT punk Alaric.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 08 July 2015, 19:10:08
Unfortunately for the Lyrans and the Kell Hounds and Wolves-in-Exile in particular, Arc-Royal seems to be destined to fall to the Falcons.   :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 09 July 2015, 08:30:14
I would appreciate some help: what novels do I have to read to know what happened to the LC in the Dark Ages? Thanks in Advance!

Pandora's Gambit, Fire at Will, The Last Charge and To Ride The Chimera.  IMO the best arc in the MWDA series.  There is also A Bonfire of Worlds where Alaric really makes his moves on the Commonwealth.

However, the Commonwealth's involvement with the Stormhammers begins earlier in the series.  Flight of the Falcon and Blood of the Isle deals with the Jade Falcon attacks on Skye, mostly from a Republic perspective, but also describes the "back to the Commonwealth" movement going on in Prefecture IX.  The Stormhammers work with the RAF in the defense, and there are some moments that describe Melissa II's support of Jasek Kelswa-Steiner.

Quote
(Another may be if the DA novels are all worth reading...)

Yes and no.  Ultimately I think it is a good thing to read them if you want to be an informed fan of Battletech, because the inclusion of the Dark Age into Battletech is a settled matter.

Quote
PS: from the FM:3145 it seems to look bad.

It may only get worse.  A coup was being whispered.  Those seldom just go away.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Maelwys on 09 July 2015, 09:07:42
There's a little bit of disconnect in the novels too. I've been spot reading the novels a bit recently in no particular order, and at one point when the Steiners are talking about the Wolves it reads as just a "Send some troops here please thanks!" and then another novel has the wolves saying "And the Steiners asked us to move everything here."

Its really weird, because I was reading one novel and thought. 'wait, why are the Lyrans responsible for moving the lower classes of the Wolves? That entire chapter they didn't mention anything like that!"
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 10 July 2015, 04:31:03
I also have a pet theory that the Wolves and Steiner are going to be combined into one faction, assuming Stone does NOT punk Alaric.

That would be bad. I prefer House Steiner, the Commonwealth, and the LCAF going down a blaze of glory rather than becoming a Clan-Bastard.
But it seems the authors indeed prepare a Steiner-Wolf merger. The Era Report stated the Lyran citizens comply well with Alaric because he is the descendant of Katherine.


It may only get worse.  A coup was being whispered.  Those seldom just go away.

The name Roderick Steiner is quite telling in that regard. The historical King Roderic of the Visigoths came to power under tumultuous circumstances and he lost the decisive battle against a mighty foe, which led to the downfall of the Kingdom. Ironically the Visiogothic Kingdom was founded by Alaric, after he crossed half the Roman Empire; and in BT there is an Alaric...

Right now I am afraid we are seeing the end of the Lyran Commonwealth and House Steiner. It is all set-up. Reading the FM and the ER was depressing. The LCAF are beaten and the industrial base to rebuild them is severly damaged. Falcon or Wolf could make an end, if they wanted to.
Perhaps if the Wolves screw up against Terra, and Roderick and Trillian pull off some dramatic victory against the Falcons, and Brewster remains quite, and FWL start no operations against the LC, and... It is not impossible, but it would need some major plot twists.

Also is there a trend of building units attached to a person? I don't mean unit that grew attached to their commander over time, like the 2nd Donegal or the 10th Lyran, but units created by someone and loyal to that someone. 1st Hesperus, Steiner Strikers, Stormhammers? Just wondering. That would not be a good trend, especially not when the traditional brigades are decimated.


Pandora's Gambit, Fire at Will, The Last Charge and To Ride The Chimera.  IMO the best arc in the MWDA series.  There is also A Bonfire of Worlds where Alaric really makes his moves on the Commonwealth.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 10 July 2015, 10:03:16
That would be bad. I prefer House Steiner, the Commonwealth, and the LCAF going down a blaze of glory rather than becoming a Clan-Bastard.
But it seems the authors indeed prepare a Steiner-Wolf merger. The Era Report stated the Lyran citizens comply well with Alaric because he is the descendant of Katherine.


The name Roderick Steiner is quite telling in that regard. The historical King Roderic of the Visigoths came to power under tumultuous circumstances and he lost the decisive battle against a mighty foe, which led to the downfall of the Kingdom. Ironically the Visiogothic Kingdom was founded by Alaric, after he crossed half the Roman Empire; and in BT there is an Alaric...

I was thinking the LCAF must be in trouble if it is being commanded by a 30 year old. 

Quote
Also is there a trend of building units attached to a person? I don't mean unit that grew attached to their commander over time, like the 2nd Donegal or the 10th Lyran, but units created by someone and loyal to that someone. 1st Hesperus, Steiner Strikers, Stormhammers? Just wondering. That would not be a good trend, especially not when the traditional brigades are decimated.

1st Hesperus Guards were the personal praetorian of Vedette Brewer.  He built the unit using his position as Duke of Hesperus and using Defiance Industries's resources. 

The Steiner Strikers were a band of misfits "The Broken Swords" that Roderick Steiner was given during HAMMERFALL in order to keep him busy and out of Vedette Brewers way.  As it turned out, Roderick took a bunch of troops that were largely dismissed as being too rowdy, formed them into a coherent unit and beat back the trap that Brewer's XO Bernard Nordhoff laid for them.

The Stormhammers were an insurrection group initially formed by Jasek Kelswa-Steiner from RAF defectors.  It was later reinforced with Lyran nationals, including undercover Loki agents.  Melissa II supported the Stormhammers in order to get Skye and other former Lyran worlds back in Lyran hands without starting a war with the Republic.

The trend is also not limited to the LCAF.  Several formations sprang up around charismatic leaders around the Inner Sphere.  The Dragon's Fury, Spirit Cats, Swordsworn and Steel Wolves were all personally loyal to their founders while also committed to a larger cause.  The 1st Covenant Worlds 1st Expeditionary Group was formed by Thaddeus Marik and Banson's Raiders... were created by Banson.   It is the way things happened in the mass mobilizations after the blackout. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 10 July 2015, 10:16:58
Don't forget one of the biggest recent one's... Stones Lament.

 All the worrying about us being taken over by the Wolves is a bit silly to me. We're the Cappies of the successor war era. Something will happen and we'll beat them back. No sense in worrying about something that hasn't happened yet.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 10 July 2015, 10:33:10
Don't forget one of the biggest recent one's... Stones Lament.

Good one.  By extension, the entire Stone's Brigade.

Quote
All the worrying about us being taken over by the Wolves is a bit silly to me. We're the Cappies of the successor war era. Something will happen and we'll beat them back. No sense in worrying about something that hasn't happened yet.

I don't know these days.  In the past i'd have agreed.  But, there have been real shake ups in the BTU over the last decade and a half, whether that was the collapse of the FWL, the death of the Kurita Dynasty (down to a third generation bastard) or Wars of Reaving culling several clans.  These might prove to be precursors of larger, more radical changes in the BTU than we had previously seen.  The threat of the Clans overtaking the Lyrans has been on the horizon for years.  We always assumed it was the Jade Falcons, and may still be the Falcons who play a part in it.  But, now the Wolves are getting their turn.

Prior to 3145 I'd have said it was Alaric's Wolves that are going to be the ones.  He had beaten everyone thrown at him.  Thaddeus Marik, Jasek Kelswa-Steiner, Malvina Hazen, to Anastasia Kerensky.  But, of all people in the Inner Sphere it was Trillian Steiner-Davion who planned Alaric's defeat on Hesperus II.  So... who knows.  Things do look bad for the Lyrans.  They can't buy their way out of their problems and their pet Clan is on the ropes.  They still have Hesperus II and Furilo, and that's a start.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 10 July 2015, 11:01:04
Both planets have strong manufacturing plants. If we can get veteran pilots into those mechs we'll turn the tide. The Wolves have to be strung out pretty good. You can't do that much war without taking losses too.
 They up and left their OZ, sure they brought their factories with them but have they had time to set them back up and get manufacturing going? I don't know. I do know it takes many years to get them back up and running.
 Then there's all the logistics to get them to the front etc...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 11 July 2015, 06:40:16
I was thinking the LCAF must be in trouble if it is being commanded by a 30 year old. 

I don't think his age is a big deal. If anything, I think it is a good age: neither too young nor too old. The LCAF need some out of the box thinking, bold but not overly risky.
Roderick seems to be the man, also he seems unquestionably loyal, which is also a necessary trait these days.


The trend is also not limited to the LCAF.  Several formations sprang up around charismatic leaders around the Inner Sphere.  The Dragon's Fury, Spirit Cats, Swordsworn and Steel Wolves were all personally loyal to their founders while also committed to a larger cause.  The 1st Covenant Worlds 1st Expeditionary Group was formed by Thaddeus Marik and Banson's Raiders... were created by Banson.   It is the way things happened in the mass mobilizations after the blackout.

The problem I have with this trend is that it helps balkanization and such units are a perfect tools for coups, as the 1st Hesperus Guards proved. That case is particularily sad because the resurrection of the Hesperus Guards Brigade would have been nice. Even it it is yet another "Guards"-brigade... ;)
I hope they redeem themselves; the Commonwealth needs every regiment it can get.


All the worrying about us being taken over by the Wolves is a bit silly to me. We're the Cappies of the successor war era. Something will happen and we'll beat them back. No sense in worrying about something that hasn't happened yet.

The CC back then was not destined to fall, neither were the Liaos. They were meant to remain a threat, even if one in the (back then) distant future. They could have turned it into a Davion vassal state ruled by the Allard-Liaos, but did not. These days the IS is bound for some major changes, I feel.

It is a bit premature to call House Steiner doomed yet, agreed. But there is ample reason to worry. If the Lyran factories were in better shape, I'd share your optimism. But they are damaged and in striking distance of superior forces.

My optimism, what little I have, stems from the moral of the LCAF. The surviving regiments seem to be eager to fight, especially by Lyran standards. They display some bravado I have not expected. Interestingly, even units marked with "questionable loyalty" have fought well against the clans and want to keep fighting (like the 1st Bolan Jaegers). I think having survived the onslaught of the clans and ending on a high note at Hesperus really hardened the LCAF. It is just that they are so small now...
However they are willing to execute bold plans, it seems, and Trillian and Roderick are just the people to make such bold plans.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 11 July 2015, 07:46:18
But with that much misfortune and dire situations thrown at the LC it would need a real Mary Sue character to turn tides in their favor, wouldn't it? And that is my problem with the entire timeline. Steiner got beaten that bad (most of the time and in the last time in particular), that it takes an irrational superhero to turn things into their favor. Will that happen? A glorious Steiner superhero marching from success to success? Hard to believe...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 11 July 2015, 08:43:12
It does take a lot, right, but not that much I think. It would be enough if the Wolves are neutralized by their focus on Terra.

The LCAF would have a fighting chance against the Falcons alone. If the Falcons also push for Terra so that both Clans are occupied with each other (and the RotS), which is not unlikely if the Wall comes down, the LCAF could deal some heavy blows. It might Hesperus II on a larger scale.
Defeating the Falcons seem to be the best chance for the Commonwealth. Malvina was foolish enough to attack the Dominion already, and the Falcons could easily be overstretching. Their presence in the Bucklands-Theatre e.g. is not that strong compared to the importance of Melissia, and I don't see Malvina reinforcing it. On the contrary I see her pulling troops out corewards to combat Wolf, Bear, and perhaps move to Terra.

But if Alaric decides to take the Commonwealth, the LCAF could not stop it. For now. We do not know if the Wolf Empire will work out. So far, the Lyrans in the Empire seem to accept it (which is what worries me most!), but who knows about the future? The "Lyran" Galaxies seem to suffer from low morale and I could well image they will be abused as cannon fodder. If that happens, perceptions could change.

So yeah, it looks bad, and the Commonwealth has very little hope to recover alone, against the Clans. Only then we would need a Steiner superhero.
But depending on what the Wolves do, the cards could easily be reshuffled, giving the LCAF a chance even without a marysue.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 11 July 2015, 09:19:17
But with that much misfortune and dire situations thrown at the LC it would need a real Mary Sue character to turn tides in their favor, wouldn't it? And that is my problem with the entire timeline. Steiner got beaten that bad (most of the time and in the last time in particular), that it takes an irrational superhero to turn things into their favor. Will that happen? A glorious Steiner superhero marching from success to success? Hard to believe...

Why not?  Alastair Marsden functionally saved the Commonwealth by himself.  Less we forget that the Dracs were on Skye and Arcturus within striking distance.  It isn't past the realm of possibility that a good Archon could get the Commonwealth out of it's current pickle. 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 July 2015, 10:45:15
We the capellans weren't on the ropes? Hansen nearly obliterated them, taking half their territory and giving it to his best friend and his wife.

 They did indeed have a Marry Sue character...Sun.

 If we need a great hero to help us win back our world's then I suggest cloning THOMAS HOGARTH!!!  He will strike fear in the hearts of the clans by threatening to drop his Atlas on top of them... surely by now he would Be pilots g a super heavy though...it's only proper...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 11 July 2015, 11:18:33
We the capellans weren't on the ropes? Hansen nearly obliterated them, taking half their territory and giving it to his best friend and his wife.

Of course they were on the ropes; what made them survive (in-universe) was the arrival of the Clans, Katherine's usurpations, and a marysue character. In other words, the survival and eventual rise of the CC was supported heavily by factors largely outside of the control of even the marysue character Sun-Tzu.

We don't know if the Commonwealth has an equally important part to play in the future of BT. And in-universe it could go either way. We are in a situation where a set-back for the Suns and the Commonwealth may be the final death blow. The LCAF are in a somewhat better state than the AFFS, but that does not say much. Both need miracles, and I doubt both get one.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 July 2015, 14:17:12
The clan invasion happened 10 years after the last time Hanse went to war against the CapCon, so the clans didn't save them.
  By the time Katherine took over Sun was in charge and had set in his new programs. Those programs set the CapCon on an incredible new path of rebuilding and tech exploration.

 Their Mary Sue was definatly Sun.

 The LC may be totally changed from this thing going on, or it might not be. We just have to wait it out and see. I hope not though. I can't take another destruction of a favored faction.

 I still mourn the Blood Spirits.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 11 July 2015, 18:25:16
Well, I am quite aware that the Clan Invasions did not occur during the Fourth Succession War. ;)
You are right, the short-term survival of the CC as a crippled and impotent rump state had nothing to do with Clans. But do you think the CC could have done as it did against a FedCom that was neither under threat from the Clans from the outside, nor torn apart by a power-hungry narcissist from the inside? Do you think its continued existence and especially its eventual resurgence was not fundamentally aided by these external factors?
I think it was, hence I do not see the CC as an encouraging example. It needed help from factors not under its control, and I do not know there will be equally dramatic changes to aid the LC.



Since I am catching up with the Dark Age, I finally got to review the snippets known from TRO 3150. Am I missing something?

Bad news:
Arc Royal lost to the Falcons
Greenlaw lost
Buena tries to break away
Perhaps others also try to break away (Valloire?)

Neutral news:
LCAF launches a pre-emptive strike (against a secession?)

Good news:
Falcons under attack from a third party
Guerilla fighters against the WE
Thomas Hoggart has a descendant



Is there any information/speculation on who the mysterious attacker of the Falcon worlds could be?
Anyway, it could be worse. The worst seems to be breaking up of the Commonwealth.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 11 July 2015, 22:01:49
Thomas Hoggart has a descendant

That was mentioned in TRO3145.  He, like his ancestor, became a hero through dumb luck rather than skill during the Battle of Tharkad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 12 July 2015, 04:22:02
Good news:
Falcons under attack from a third party

Is there any information/speculation on who the mysterious attacker of the Falcon worlds could be?
Anyway, it could be worse. The worst seems to be breaking up of the Commonwealth.

Chances are it's the Hell's Horses, although i'd love to see the Home worlds Clans returning.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 July 2015, 10:15:30
That was mentioned in TRO3145.  He, like his ancestor, became a hero through dumb luck rather than skill during the Battle of Tharkad.

 I still think THOMAS HIGARTH!!! wasn't dumb, but cagy. Maybe his son is the same.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 12 July 2015, 13:33:58
That was mentioned in TRO3145.  He, like his ancestor, became a hero through dumb luck rather than skill during the Battle of Tharkad.

Sorry, I did not mean Rainer Hogarth, Thomas's grand-nephew, but Thomas's step-grandson Rafel.


Chances are it's the Hell's Horses, although i'd love to see the Home worlds Clans returning.

It would make sense, but why build up a mystery when it is a perfectly sensible and predictable faction?
The Falcons certainly did not make many friends as of late. When I read what they do I almost wish the WoB back to bloody their noses a little.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 12 July 2015, 13:40:24
The Falcons certainly did not make many friends as of late. When I read what they do I almost wish the WoB back to bloody their noses a little.

That is Alaric's favorite past time. He would be extremely upset if the WoB tried to take it away from him.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Trevor on 13 July 2015, 14:15:05
Dropping in to say hello to the my fellow Lyran Commonwealth commanders. Currently working on a 3rd Lyran Guards Company that I am looking to expand into a RCT over time. Thanks to Col. Hengeist for leading me over here.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 13 July 2015, 15:36:44
You're welcome and welcome to the best faction in the game.

 I'm a Donegal Guards player myself. If you have any questions I'm sure one of us can answer them.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 13 July 2015, 16:47:02
Dropping in to say hello to the my fellow Lyran Commonwealth commanders. Currently working on a 3rd Lyran Guards Company that I am looking to expand into a RCT over time. Thanks to Col. Hengeist for leading me over here.

Good choice of unit.  8)
I must admit I overlooked the 3rd for a long time, despite its good service record fighting the enemies of the Commonwealth for centuries. There was barely a war without the 3rd, but it will probably never be the poster boy unit of the LCAF.

Btw., do we know what the sigil of the 12th Lyran Guards is?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 13 July 2015, 17:09:06
I don't think they've thought one up yet.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 13 July 2015, 18:07:53
Hm, in that case I hope they go for crossed maces and a quartered shield. The mace is woefully underrepresented in the unit insignia, the weapons of the 3rd and 8th are crossed, and the quarterly was used with the new(-ish) 8th Lyran Guards, so it may make sense to use it for another resurrected (?) unit. A quick illustration of what I have in mind (Mace made by Christie L. Ward):

(http://i.imgur.com/oAg2Aih.png)

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Reldn on 13 July 2015, 18:30:44
Dropping in to say hello to the my fellow Lyran Commonwealth commanders. Currently working on a 3rd Lyran Guards Company that I am looking to expand into a RCT over time. Thanks to Col. Hengeist for leading me over here.

Greetings from a fellow member of 3rd as well!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Trevor on 13 July 2015, 22:20:44
Thanks Flieger! Have made some more progress, though I am having a few issues kinda organizing my stuff as it is into a force. I know the typical Lyran view is for heavier designs, which going by the Lyran Guards info they would have access to that kind of equipment, but what are a few things you all look for when building forces with your Lyrans? Like right now I have a

King Crab
Atlas
Banshee
Zeus

Longbow
Warhammer
Archer
Rifleman

Phoenix Hawk
Commando
Clint
Locust

organized as above, seemed obvious to pair the fast mechs together into a lance, the Longbow and Archer paired with the Warhammer and Rifleman as a team of direct and indirect long range fire, and the assaults because that is the troupe we all know and love. What other conventions do you guys all have out there? Sorry if this question was in an older post didn't want to potentially beat a dead horse.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 14 July 2015, 09:04:25
No worries about asking questions...

 You've assigned them correctly. Usually people assign lances by job and speed.

 Some times, just for fun, I'll make a lance that's just... Different. We had a game last week that was 25k bv2. I let one of the other guys have 8k because he wanted to make an assault lance. I took 7k. My lance was a Zeus,defiance,bushwhacker,and wolfhound. Believe it or not, my lance took out more mechs than his assault lance.

 Yes, the trope is that we do the wall of steel... And that is a viable tactic. If you look though, we have an average weight of heavy, not assault.

 So I try to keep my units closer to that than all assaults... Even though it's so much fun... So contemplate that when building your rct.

 What vees do you have planned for it?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Trevor on 14 July 2015, 10:28:43
I hadn't planned vehicles yet but am looking into them on sarna and IWM to see what I can have models for.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Moonsword on 14 July 2015, 12:26:14
I hadn't planned vehicles yet but am looking into them on sarna and IWM to see what I can have models for.

You could also try the Master Unit List (http://masterunitlist.info) for more detailed availability information.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 14 July 2015, 12:48:57
Agreed, the MUL is invaluable. We get a lot of good vees. Rommel/Patton, Savannah masters, gurtultier... We have really good infantry and battle armor too.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Trevor on 14 July 2015, 13:13:49
I know that I want to pick up Ironwind Metals 3 Alpha Strike packs as they seem to contain some iconic mechs and a few repeats of the plastics that I have, which would give me 2 companies worth of mechs, and then move into vehicles and infantry. I would like to emulate the RCT as described by the books but now I am understanding what all goes into that as far as the number of models and such. So thinking about a batallion sized force of models, 2 companies of mechs and a mixed company of vees and infantry (probably battle armor and transports to go with them) to have some options without stagnating the pool too much.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 14 July 2015, 20:38:10
King Crab
Atlas
Banshee
Zeus

Longbow
Warhammer
Archer
Rifleman

If playing late Succession Wars, I might switch the Zeus and the Longbow.  The Atlas and King Crab are 3-5-0 speed, and the Banshee and Longbow can also be 3-5-0 if you pick the better variants from that era.  But the Zeus is a 4-6-0 machine, same as the Archer, Rifleman, and Warhammer.

FWIW...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Trevor on 14 July 2015, 22:44:15
That is great to know, thanks! Never would have thought to look at that.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 15 July 2015, 09:01:01
What is everyone's opinion on the Zeus X line? Needing a fast mech and just using an assault for it looks like a very Lyran solution (even when you need a jump-capable mech, they can use the Zeus X). But the armament seems a little underwhelming...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 15 July 2015, 09:09:11
Stacy Church's Zeux X is literally the only one worth using.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 15 July 2015, 09:24:58
I have to agree with Ogre on this. The new Zeus-X look like new toy syndrome similar to some of the 3050 refits that don't work all that well.

 Stacy's has the potential to take out a hellstar.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 15 July 2015, 10:23:06
Guten Tag, Steinerista :)

So I was thinking about creating a Lyran OpFor for the Jihad/Early Republic period (3075 intro date at the latest), but I'm struggling a little with the composition of the mech company. So any help is appreciated.

3/5
TDK-7S Thunder Hawk
DVS-2 Devastator
KGC-007 King Crab (unsure, but the plasma is very handy)
HA1-OB Hauptmann

4/6/(J)
NSR-9FC Nightstar
Mad Cat MkII
PPR-7S Salamander
Guillotine IIC2 (current fav) alternatives: FLC-9R Falconer/Rifleman IIC 5/DFN-3T Defiance/BNC-7S Banshee/ZEU-9S Zeus/MAD-9S Marauder/? <- ideally another 4/6/4 with LB-X or Plasmas prior to 3075

6/9+
NGS-6T Nightsky alternative: UZL-8S Uziel
UZL-2S Uziel
BTZ-3F Blitzkrieg
WLF-4WA Wolfhound


aside from the individual choices, is this too heavy and slow or still acceptable, especially since it's... you know, Lyran.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 15 July 2015, 10:27:46
Honestly it looks a little on the heavy side.  Even the Lyrans rarely put three 100 ton mechs in the same lance.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 15 July 2015, 10:32:34
Well, for the assault lance, I thought that since it is supposed to be 3/5 and nothing more, it might as well be a proper wall of steel, no? Or is it that since it's 395 tons overall, which in canon composition, is just too heavy by all standards?

I actually thought it would be an interesting twist to essentially have yet another assault lance, which of course would have to be faster/jumpier.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Trevor on 15 July 2015, 10:59:54
Ah I never realized there was a canon weight limit for lances.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 15 July 2015, 11:05:43
Ah I never realized there was a canon weight limit for lances.

It depends on the source.  I have one book that defines a heavy lance beginning at 220 tons.  That definition means 4 55 ton mediums is a heavy lance.

Lance definitions have always been fast and loose.  Go with what you like.  If you want 395 tons of assault mech, well the Lyrans are hardly a bad choice to align to. 

I don't view game lances as always being organic lances, anyway. 4 mechs that happen to find themselves on the same battlefield aren't necessarily from the same company, battalion, or even regiment.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 15 July 2015, 11:23:03
I'm not a fan of the plasma king crab, besides... It has an intro date of 3101, later than your 3075 cut off.

 If you want a king crab I'd go with the gauss or lbx-20 version.

 I wouldn't personally worry about canon weights for lances. Make it what you like and don't get caught up in too much rule stuff.

 You could swap it out for the standard nightstar also, you lose 5 tons but it's a really nice long range Mech and adds 2 more gauss rifles.

 If you want some plasma throw in a Cataphract 3-LL in to your heavy unit. I've recently become a fan of the defiance. Swap out something you don't want for some case and you'll be happier.

 Overall it looks good.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 15 July 2015, 13:13:20
Random lance and company weight tables can be found in TW p.265.

Never thought about random or canon weight compositions when i started to paint my Lyran Guard company. Finally it is an truly assault company with nothing under 80 tons except their 'pet dog' (which is a Barghest wielding a heavy Gauss rifle...).
It was fun painting it as this, but i gave a **** about playability.

So have fun with your composition and don't worry too much.


Added a pic of that team. In the meantime an Atlas joined the force in order to replace the Fafnir as this needs to be repainted in a matching style.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 15 July 2015, 15:23:26
The other alternative for a plasma-packing assault mech is a Hauptmann E.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 15 July 2015, 15:52:35
Finally it is an truly assault company with nothing under 80 tons except their 'pet dog'

That is a good interpretation of what the Barghest actually is.  ;D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 15 July 2015, 18:48:49
I love the barghest. Such a nice cav mech. That hgr is just icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caedis Animus on 15 July 2015, 23:49:26
I'm a personal fan of the Barghest's experimental model, the BGS-4X. The Small cockpit is an annoyance (And I would rather simply give a standard cockpit, stripping out the C3 slave, assuming I was using a 4/5 pilot), but the 'mech itself is a surprisingly durable beast every time I've fielded it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 16 July 2015, 05:06:04
A small cockpit with a quad Battlemech shouldn't be that much of a problem as the quad layout grants a -2 on piloting rolls (as long as all four legs do what they should do). So the initial quad mech with a small cockpit still gains a -1 on piloting rolls (effectivly playing with a 4/4 pilot instead of the used 4/5).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 16 July 2015, 09:11:27
Yea, the barghest and the hgr are made for eachother. Pilot chech to fire the hgr? No problem.

I took 20 damage ! I need a pilot check? No problem...

 Does the barghest have some problems? Sure. Is it quirky enough to make it fun? Absolutely!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 16 July 2015, 10:32:12
I'm not a fan of the plasma king crab, besides... It has an intro date of 3101, later than your 3075 cut off.

No, you are thinking 009, I meant the 007. ;)

If you want some plasma throw in a Cataphract 3-LL in to your heavy unit.

Sadly, only available to the CapCon.

Random lance and company weight tables can be found in TW p.265.

Thanks, never noticed these, though looking at the tables, they are not quite what I was hoping for. I guess, I will just stick to what was already suggested and go with what I think works best. Thinking about it, I fear my suggested company might be a little too expensive BV-wise... but then I want them to shred mechs, vehicles/aerospace and BA/infantry alike. The latter might be a little difficult though, since I have so few Plasma Rifles already. Is there any Lyran design which sports 2 or 3 PRs while actually being able to use them heat-wise?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 16 July 2015, 11:38:53
Well, there's the Hauptmann E that I already mentioned- GR, 2 Plasma Rifles, 2 MML 5s.  Works pretty well against anything.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 16 July 2015, 11:42:11
Well, there's the Hauptmann E that I already mentioned- GR, 2 Plasma Rifles, 2 MML 5s.  Works pretty well against anything.

2? I only looked it up on sarna and there it read like it was only a single PR. 2 will do. There's nothing wrong with adding a second Hauptmann over the King Crab, I think.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 16 July 2015, 11:51:20
Yeah, I double-checked the record sheet and it's got two: one in the right torso and the other in the left arm.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 16 July 2015, 21:25:32
2? I only looked it up on sarna and there it read like it was only a single PR. 2 will do. There's nothing wrong with adding a second Hauptmann over the King Crab, I think.

Definitely two. It makes TSM opponents sad.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 18 July 2015, 04:22:30
Well, there's the Hauptmann E that I already mentioned- GR, 2 Plasma Rifles, 2 MML 5s.  Works pretty well against anything.

They haven't erratta'ed MMLs being able to fire inferno away, have they?If not..then..yeah: Say hello to the Hauptman
War Crime Configuration. >:D  (Also...we need an emoticon in the 'More' tab for fire/pyromania, because this is BattleTech,
and so there are lots of ways to set things on fire!)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 18 July 2015, 11:30:16
This one may work...  [madflame]
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 18 July 2015, 12:53:32
They haven't erratta'ed MMLs being able to fire inferno away, have they?If not..then..yeah: Say hello to the Hauptman
War Crime Configuration. >:D

Now with 50% more flaming death than the Sunder (Samuel)!  Prepare for burnation!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 19 July 2015, 07:16:30

4/6/(J)
NSR-9FC Nightstar
Mad Cat MkII
PPR-7S Salamander
Guillotine IIC2 (current fav) alternatives: FLC-9R Falconer/Rifleman IIC 5/DFN-3T Defiance/BNC-7S Banshee/ZEU-9S Zeus/MAD-9S Marauder/? <- ideally another 4/6/4 with LB-X or Plasmas prior to 3075

6/9+
NGS-6T Nightsky alternative: UZL-8S Uziel
UZL-2S Uziel
BTZ-3F Blitzkrieg
WLF-4WA Wolfhound

Alright, though what about slot 4 in the mobile assault lance and slot 1 in the strike/recon lance?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 19 July 2015, 08:48:49
Is Battle Value a point in your calculation? If yes, most jumpers and Clanmechs are out of reach. If no... well... feel free. Plasma rifles are relatively rare, especially when not in conjunction with the Capellan Confedartion. This weapon is used by other nations, but not that often. Said Hauptmann is one of the few Steinermechs that have it.
If it should be a Zeus, i would tend to the -9T with light fusion engine and more armor. It is one of my personal favs.

I don't know when the Uziel -8S was first build. Possible, it doesn't work due to your time restriction. Plus i don't know if it bothers you, if your lance fields a second Uziel at the same time.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 July 2015, 11:13:07
Falconer 9R has a date of 85, rifleman IIC 5 is 80, that marauder overheats by 5 on a run firing all 3 main guns, my favorite of all of them in spot 4 would be the banshee or zeus.

Spots in the next one...nightsky. the uziel 8s only does 5/8. True, the jump makes up for it, but it's all short range. At least the nightsky has a ppc.

Edit. That nightsky you're looking to use has an intro of 85. I'd go with the 5t
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 19 July 2015, 11:38:23
Falconer 9R has a date of 85, rifleman IIC 5 is 80, that marauder overheats by 5 on a run firing all 3 main guns, my favorite of all of them in spot 4 would be the banshee or zeus.

Spots in the next one...nightsky. the uziel 8s only does 5/8. True, the jump makes up for it, but it's all short range. At least the nightsky has a ppc.

Edit. That nightsky you're looking to use has an intro of 85. I'd go with the 5t

I'm sorry, but according to the MUL, all 3 have an intro date of before 75, same goes for the UZL-8S.

So two recommendations for the Zeus already. I guess one Sea Fox mech is enough anyways.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 July 2015, 13:41:31
No kidding. Guess I should have looked on the mul. Mech factory says different. Good to know.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 20 July 2015, 18:35:48
May I ask about opinions on the Götterdämmerung? Does it live up to the cool name?
At first glance, I think I like it...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 20 July 2015, 18:38:51
Honestly?  Not really.

It doesn't actually do anything that a Thunderbolt or Battlemaster 10S didn't do already, and the Torso Mounted Cockpit is too much of a liability.  Though there's apparently a new variant in TRO 3150 with Ferro-Lamellar Armor and Clan weaponry.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 20 July 2015, 18:50:59
I am a fan of the Thunderbolt, which is probably why the Götterdämmerung appeals to me, but indeed I forgot about the torso mounted cockpit. I wonder though, is it really that bad in practice?
Also, while clantech sounds nice, can the weapon's suite really benefit much from it? Of course it does benefit, but perhaps other mechs might benefit more...? (I am looking at you, Zeus_X).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 20 July 2015, 19:03:14
There are two problems with Torso-mounted Cockpits.  One, the +1 to PSRs.

The second, much larger one, is that there are very few critable locations in the side torsos, so crits will quickly start to transfer to the Center Torso (after destroying your Life Support, which isn't great for a mech that can easily run hot).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Nightgaun7 on 21 July 2015, 04:31:13
I want to like the Gotterdammerung, but it's decidedly sub-par. It devotes much too much tonnage to being tough and yet is rather easy to kill.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: dirty harry on 21 July 2015, 05:59:14
I have to second all these negative reports on the Götterdämmerung. It didn't work well or just better than a Thunderbolt in the testplays i had. It is all about design, but not really about a functional concept.

Its design feature is the arrangement of all critical components around the vertical center line with the exception of the ER-PPC. Away from that? Well... nothing really... To free enough space in the center torso the Götterdämmerung needed a compact fusion engine, a device as heavy as hell. With 28.5 tons it is full 9.5 tons heavier than a conventional engine. That is weight needed for other details. A compact gyro is another heavy component although not as heavy as the engine. The torsomounted cockpit is not only heavy but it is impossible to exit in a case of emergency and it gains the pilot a +1 on every PSR. With nothing but the life support slots in the torso sides a critical to a torso side will automatically hamper the further functionality of the mech. After that first critical every other critical hit next turn is redirected directly into the vulnerable center torso (which killed my second pilot although there was still armor on the center torso left). The biggest advantage of the design is its maximum armor. To bad but that is a feature which can be achieved with standard armor as well (if a conventional fusion engine had been used it would be no problem to find those missing 2.5 tons the used heavy ferrofibrous armor gains...). The weapons are not bad, but with the use of CASE II the headmounted ammo storage wouldn't be needed. Even if the damage of an exploding head is not transferred into the torso, the pilot damage because of the ammo explosion still occurs. And by now the Götterdämmerung has only 8 shots for its LRM 15. A little bit on the low side.  A final critical flaw is an open spot on the left side of the mech, where an enemy can attack without fear of counterfire. Something i don't like on a modern mech with a bristling area of weapons.
I haven't seen this new variant with tons of clantech, so i can't talk about its functionality, but with ferro lamellor armor it will gain a bit more resilience (as long as it keeps its maximum protection) and additional fire power.

What would i do to improve the Götterdämmerung? Well... everything i would try would trash the centerline design concept - totally.
First of all i would change the compact fusion engine back into a standard fusion engine. It is bigger and forces at least three medium lasers out of the centerline, but it would gain me 9.5 tons to work with. I would stick to the torsomounted cockpit as a center aspect of the whole design (ignoring the +1 on every PSR...) but i would arrange more components in the torso sides. To gain the necessary space i would drop the heavy ferrofibrous armor with its incredible appetite for free slots. As long as there is no other new armor type that i would want to field, even standard armor would do the job. Personally, i would tend to light ferrofibrous armor, forgo the last three armor plates and keep the mech still well protected. Enter a CASE II in a side torso, place the ammo of the LRM there and add a second ton. The LRM could be fitted with Artemis IV while still in the head. As three lasers had to be placed anew i would mount at least one on the left arm thereby closing the gap in the left side (although a single laser will not really threaten an dedicated enemy). As heat is a problem and the torso sides still in need for something to fill the slots, i would add at least two heat sinks, both placed in the torso sides. That would leave me with 3 tons to go, which could be fielded differently. I think, i would mount two small X-pulse lasers as anti-infantry-weapons and an additional 15. heat sink, but other customisations would work as well.
But finally the Götterdämmerung would live as the kind of Zombie it was envisioned but not as the design concept it was planed as.

To make things short: would i want to field a Götterdämmerung? No, not as long as could field something more effective.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 21 July 2015, 08:15:34
I love the Gotterdamarung.  Is it quirky? Yup. Does it live up to the fluff? Very few mechs do. Is it a good heavy that can last a long time on the battlefield? Yes it is.

 Nothing but the life support in the torsos? So. There's 24 points in the front you have to get through to get to that, plus the arms are extra armor. Is it a perfect design? Nope. Is it fun to try to use? For sure.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: wantec on 21 July 2015, 12:11:28
I love the Gotterdamarung.  Is it quirky? Yup. Does it live up to the fluff? Very few mechs do. Is it a good heavy that can last a long time on the battlefield? Yes it is.

 Nothing but the life support in the torsos? So. There's 24 points in the front you have to get through to get to that, plus the arms are extra armor. Is it a perfect design? Nope. Is it fun to try to use? For sure.
And now its got two new variants to try out & argue about
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 21 July 2015, 15:35:25
Interesting to read your opinions, gentlemen, thanks!
I must admit I am a real fan of fluffed mechs and thus willing to overlook actual problems if the fluff is good enough. I mean, no mech is perfect. And introducing a (supposed) zombie mech called twilight of the gods when we may be witnessing the twilight of the Commonwealth is extra fluffy. Perhaps it is just that the general DA line up of the LCAF is not overly impressive, though...
Anyway, I am looking forward to see the clan-version, but even more I like the idea of the short range brawler version. Pulse lasers and SRM? That is exactly what I have been thinking! Again, it may turn out to be even more flawed than the -20S, but I like the idea.

The overall situation for the Commonwealth may be grim in 3150, but I would have imagined it to be worse. Arc-Royal hurts, the Buena Collective secession however appears to be well under control. I guess Buena will be safely in loyalists hands soon, if it is not already. Think about it: the LCAF have a long history of fighting secessionists; and compared to Skye, Buena is bloody beginner in this business.  ;D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 21 July 2015, 19:42:08
Well, with the magic forcefield down maybe the Wolves and falcons will turn their eyes that way.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: GreekFire on 21 July 2015, 20:33:05
And now its got two new variants to try out & argue about

(http://i.imgur.com/Jdqr7Bqm.jpg)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 22 July 2015, 09:19:33
Uhg... I'm not interested in this era but I may get it just for the Götterdammërung. Is there a decent Zeus varients?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: wantec on 22 July 2015, 10:50:19
Uhg... I'm not interested in this era but I may get it just for the Götterdammërung. Is there a decent Zeus varients?
TRO 3145 has the Zeus X with a dew variants. TRO 3150 has new King Crab variants (and an eevn newer one in one of the notable pilots).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 22 July 2015, 10:59:55
Well, it has to be better than that POS DA varients. Mmls and lac 5's? On a slow assault? Yuck.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 22 July 2015, 11:21:25
May I ask about opinions on the Götterdämmerung? Does it live up to the cool name?
At first glance, I think I like it...


I'm not even that much into Steiner designs, but when I saw it for the first time, the first thing that popped into my head was "what a huge waste of potential".
It looks like it is a zombie when in fact it is not, not even remotely actually. The main problem is the compact engine, which wastes way too much tonnage (an armored SFE weighs less and is a lot tougher) and the empty side torso, which will guarantee that your life support will be gone rather sooner than later, while that torso-mounted cockpit is a must to armor.
Also a TSM and handheld weapon would have benefitted the design much more than others.
The Lyran Fan-TRO had a variant that essentially ticked all these boxes IIRC. It was much better than the original TBH.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 22 July 2015, 11:28:01
Nothing but the life support in the torsos? So. There's 24 points in the front you have to get through to get to that, plus the arms are extra armor.

It can have all 24 points of armor and a mere SRM can still TAC out the lonely life support crit. It's really not great at all, in fact it is fairly horrible.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Savage Coyote on 22 July 2015, 19:24:51

Guillotine IIC2 (current fav) alternatives: FLC-9R Falconer/Rifleman IIC 5/DFN-3T Defiance/BNC-7S Banshee/ZEU-9S Zeus/MAD-9S Marauder/? <- ideally another 4/6/4 with LB-X or Plasmas prior to 3075


As the designer of the Guillotine Iic 2, yay!  It's not idea and it's expensive in terms of BV, and it doesn't have a large throw weight of damage, but it's fun, at least to me.  Glad someone else likes it!


As for the Zeus X hate, I like the 3 and use it.  Sure it is not the firepower of an assault (or heavy) but it sure feels good to get that 80 tons jumping eight hexes with his 8S Uziel buddy.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 July 2015, 08:40:34
It can have all 24 points of armor and a mere SRM can still TAC out the lonely life support crit. It's really not great at all, in fact it is fairly horrible.

If you play with floating crits a single lbx-2 bb can take it out. It can do the same to an atlas. So...not much difference there. It's not really a valid argument when that can happen to any Mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 23 July 2015, 10:34:56
The issue isn't whether or not a TAC can take it out, it's how vunerable the mech is to TACs.  And with such wide, empty side torsos, the Gotterdamarung extremely vulnerable to TACs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 July 2015, 10:41:20
So is a marauder, or a defiance or any Mech with ammo and an XL even with case.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 23 July 2015, 10:54:24
So is a marauder, or a defiance or any Mech with ammo and an XL even with case.

Those however don't want to make us believe they are zombies. It is even in the Götterdämmerung's fluff, which is essentially adding insult to injury for Lyrans. I found it fairly amusing when I read it and checked the stats.  :P
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: GreekFire on 23 July 2015, 10:58:39
From my experience it does make the Gotterdammerung good at one thing: taking on Gauss Boats and the like. The amount of damage dealt will have a much smaller chance of actually critting out the Gott, so I've found that throwing them against formations low on critseeking but high on sheer firepower works quite well.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 July 2015, 10:59:10
Lots of mechs have fluff that doesn't live up to game play. This one is no different.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: wantec on 23 July 2015, 12:05:44
From my experience it does make the Gotterdammerung good at one thing: taking on Gauss Boats and the like. The amount of damage dealt will have a much smaller chance of actually critting out the Gott, so I've found that throwing them against formations low on critseeking but high on sheer firepower works quite well.
Normally, such 'Mechs would be afraid of those high-damage clusters removing the head in one shot, but not with the torso mounted cockpit.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 24 July 2015, 00:20:55
TRO 3145 has the Zeus X with a dew variants. TRO 3150 has new King Crab variants (and an eevn newer one in one of the notable pilots).

The King Crab with the dual hyper assault gauss sounds nice on paper, but I find the concept rather ... conventional.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 24 July 2015, 00:26:33
What would you have preferred?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 24 July 2015, 00:50:53
Not sure... the King Crab was never really my cup of tea. I generally like varied weapon load outs on assaults. And, for obvious reasons, I would have liked to see the HAG on the Fafnir.  ;)
But the dual HAG version surely holds more promise to me than the current 009.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caedis Animus on 24 July 2015, 05:11:43
Eh, fast-firing weapons with variable damage (HAGRs) don't really work on the Fafnir OR King Crab. Both are built around dealing big, ugly chunks of damage to one spot, typically, with passable backup guns (Or in the Fafnir's case, hideously underwhelming backup guns).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 24 July 2015, 11:37:52
I am afraid I don't understand: why doesn't it work?


On another note, and sorry for switching topic: It seems the Commonwealth Guards Brigade is done. The 1st Hesperus Guards are in exile (if not actively supporting Widmer who gave them shelter); the 1st Buena Guards definitely broke away with Widmer, now called 1st Collective Guards; there are also the 2nd Collective Guards, perhaps the ex-2nd Buena Guards; lastly the 2nd Bolan Guards are of questionable loyalty by 3145 already. Granted, I was never a fan of that brigade, but I hate losing it. We have not lost entire brigades since... well, a long time, isn't it? (The Tikonov Republicans don't count imo).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 24 July 2015, 12:03:04
I think he's saying it doesn't work because the Fafnir and King Crab are supposed to have big guns that throw out large chunks of damage to single hit locations instead of guns that throw out a lot of smaller clusters.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 24 July 2015, 12:07:56
Yeah, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Two BFGs which hammer the target or two BFGs which sandblast the target... who cares?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caedis Animus on 24 July 2015, 12:14:16
I think he's saying it doesn't work because the Fafnir and King Crab are supposed to have big guns that throw out large chunks of damage to single hit locations instead of guns that throw out a lot of smaller clusters.
Right on the nose.

Yeah, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Two BFGs which hammer the target or two BFGs which sandblast the target... who cares?
I personally find it to be a strange role on both designs. Doesn't help I've had a hate-on for the Hyper Assault Gausses ever since I found out they have degrading damage at range.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 24 July 2015, 13:06:48
OK, got it.  :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 August 2015, 11:57:02
Looks like SC's DG's from Gencon are up on CSO now.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 August 2015, 13:13:40
Got some CSO love the other day. Not my favorite for us but not bad.
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=7286
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 20 August 2015, 14:55:40
I like them, both the brigade (at least the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd regiments) and the colour scheme. They just had to face impossible odds during Guerrero, and were thrown into the meat grinder during the FCCW. And I think they fought well and honourably in both cases. I am happy they were part of the LCAF. ...can't say the same about some other LCAF units.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 09 September 2015, 16:17:32
So, had a thought. If the Lyrans were to create an Elite Brigade meant to go dashing about and dropping into enemy offensives and counterattack (and even go on the attack), what would the regimental-level composition look like in terms of unit types, assuming it got the same priority on new equipment as, say, the Royal Guards?

Basically, think the Third Royal Guards, but able to respond to multiple simultaneous situations on multiple fronts without having to split the RCT up.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 09 September 2015, 16:39:26
What era?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 09 September 2015, 17:50:26
What era?

Thinking 3145 as part of the rebuilding after the debacle of Operation HAMMERFALL. Now, whether the first RCT will be ready by 3150 is another issue, but I'd wanna know what they would plan for. How many Assault Mechs would they want? How many Lightning Companies? What weight-class spread for their Aerospace complement?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 09 September 2015, 18:43:41
Well, as you imply, building a whole brigade with multiple RCTs, and that on elite level to act as rapid response force, is indeed unrealistic as of 3145/50. The Commonwealth struggles to keep the existing regiments operational: the 6th, 24th, and 32nd Lyran Guards were disbanded to strengthen the ranks of other Lyran Guards; and similar things happened in most brigades.
I am not even sure if they would plan for it. With the heavy damage to the industrial power of the Commonwealth, the dwinding numbers of recruits, and the extremely bad shape of the existing brigades it seems more sensible to focus on rebuilding your units. Furthermore, an additional brigade means additional logistics organization, new structures etc.


Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see a new brigade if only to escape the monotony of "x Guards"-units. Give me some Grenadiers, please!  ;D

So, what would it look like... Imo, a quick reaction force depends on its strategic mobility, i.e. the number of JumpShips and DropShips. It needs a lot of them. Preferrably it also has WarShip support. The ground force would also need some mobility, but not that much. More important is that they hit really hard to quickly overwhelm the enemy and move on to the next crisis. This means predominantly heavy mechs and a good number of assaults, fast if possible. (The in-universe narrative makes the Zeus-X appear quite suited e.g., even if actual gamers have a different opinion).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 10 September 2015, 13:19:06
So, what would it look like... Imo, a quick reaction force depends on its strategic mobility, i.e. the number of JumpShips and DropShips. It needs a lot of them. Preferrably it also has WarShip support. The ground force would also need some mobility, but not that much. More important is that they hit really hard to quickly overwhelm the enemy and move on to the next crisis. This means predominantly heavy mechs and a good number of assaults, fast if possible. (The in-universe narrative makes the Zeus-X appear quite suited e.g., even if actual gamers have a different opinion).

Given the generalist nature stated ("Able to react quickly to any threat"), it would need a mix of infantry and troop transports. Such a unit would require full dropship and jumpship support, so making a detatchment of it deployable from a common Jumpship, like, say, the Invader or Star Lord, would be ideal. If using Invaders, they would deloy in two invader groups. Each Invader wold carry one fighter-carrier dropship, one Mech-carrying dropship, and one that carries a mix of 'mechs and infantry and/or vehicles. Ideally, you would have 1 Company of Heavy Mechs, 2 Lances of assault, and 2 lances of medium mechs for on planet recon and harrassment. The vehicles would be a mix of fast, light vehicles to work with the light 'mechs, main battle tanks to slug it out next to the heavier 'mechs, and troop carriers. Your infantry would consist mostly of battle armor.

Here is the kicker: you want most of the mechs and battle armor to be jump capable. Why? Because that way
they can drop in on the enemy positions. Whether it be through the Battle Armour arriving at night and doing
a commando raid to remove the enemy command structure, or the 'mechs arriving before the dropships hit planet
to begin targeting the enemy units in the field. This unit would drill extensively in orbital insertions, as that would be a key part of their tactical doctrine. Aerospace units would have a key role in targeting fixed defensive emplacements, and enemy airstrips as 'mechs engage their mainline forces, and battle armor target command assets.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 10 September 2015, 18:22:33
Here is the kicker: you want most of the mechs and battle armor to be jump capable. Why? Because that way
they can drop in on the enemy positions. Whether it be through the Battle Armour arriving at night and doing
a commando raid to remove the enemy command structure, or the 'mechs arriving before the dropships hit planet
to begin targeting the enemy units in the field. This unit would drill extensively in orbital insertions, as that would be a key part of their tactical doctrine. Aerospace units would have a key role in targeting fixed defensive emplacements, and enemy airstrips as 'mechs engage their mainline forces, and battle armor target command assets.

Well, good point. I see your logic.

Just remember the original idea was a brigade-sized formation, i.e. at least three complete RCTs. Having them all equipped with mostly jumpy mechs might be a bit of an overspecialization. You need heavy hitters to break any resistance and do it quickly, that is asking for a Lyran style wall of steel.
So I would indeed like to have an RCT primed for combat drops, but also a heavy RCT to follow up and break the enemy, and then mop-up RCT.

On a related note: has a brigade ever operated as a whole unit like an RCT? A whole brigade always acting united would be quite a novelty in the BTU, I think. They could have build that during the time of the Lyran Alliance...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 10 September 2015, 18:38:17
During the living history of BattleTech, I think the only time a brigade operated as a field unit was during the 4th SW when the Crucis Lancers hit Tikonov.  And arguably not even then, as the component regiments still fought in separate on-world mini-campaigns, IIRC.

However the largely undetailed Early SW era probably had Brigade/Divisional sized battles.  Surely the SLDF's campaign to reclaim Terra just beforehand would have had some battles of that size, as well.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 10 September 2015, 18:50:35
Thanks for the info, that is what I suspected.
However, 'nowadays' brigades are a lot smaller. The FR: 2765 lists more than 30 Lyran Guards regiments, now we are down to five. Similar shrinkings happened to many if not most brigades. So technically the idea of a new brigade-sized QRF is not unthinkable, simply because brigades are small nowadays.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 10 September 2015, 18:54:05
Personally I'd rather have only a single company of jump-capable Assault 'Mechs in each RCT specialized in performing orbital drops. When you come down from orbit, even a single company of Assault 'Mechs can cause horrid amounts of damage if they land right in the middle of the enemy's formation. Then the Dropships land and the rest of the RCT comes out to join the party.  >:D

And it'd be a brigade specifically so they can respond to multiple situations on multiple planets simultaneously if they need to, not all work together to hit one planet. They'd just all be organized roughly the same for consistency purposes.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 10 September 2015, 19:13:05
Ah, ok, I see. So now to what interests me the most:
What name, colours and insignia would you give them?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 10 September 2015, 19:22:21
Ah, ok, I see. So now to what interests me the most:
What name, colours and insignia would you give them?

Hmm. For the colors, I'd go with the same blue as the Royal Guards, but the arms are painted chrome or silver.

Name? How about the Lyran Rangers? Insignia would be a rearing stallion on a blue circle with a silver edge.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 September 2015, 01:10:13
Heraldicly silver and white are the same color. A regiment is still a regiment. The size never changes. There is and RCT and LCT. The LCT is a smaller size unit that I think you're talking about.

 If you want a fast response team I don't think it'll happen, since it would take a long time to get from one place to another with the time it takes to jump from one system to another.

 If you're wanting something to take back a planet I'd use something heavy and assaulty. Have a company in each battalion that's light and fast that hits hard and can deal with Vees and infantry.  I'd take at least a lance of BA and Vees to carry them per company.

As for colors? Appropriate camo and for parade, I like blue and copper or orange. They are contrasting colors and look great together.  For a name... kampfgruppe Steiner. For an insignia.. I like the rearing stallion Terrance mentioned.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 11 September 2015, 08:47:50
Given the type of battle the orbital insertion company would be training to fight in (dropping right in the middle of enemy formations, so short ranges abound), do you think the -734 Highlander and the -6S Emperor would be popular with them?

The crazier pilots would probably try something like a Death from Above attack on enemy 'Mechs. During insertion.  :D

As for travel times, I think their mission profile would encourage them to get a LF-equipped Jumpship assigned to each RCT, just so they could travel faster if needed.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 September 2015, 11:07:50
As far as lf equipped jumpers, its a good idea.

Heck yea a Highlander would be good. The AC 20 equipped emperor would be good too. Fafnier, hauptmans, and anything with lots of close up stuff would work.

I love combat dropping stuff on top of my enemies heads
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 11 September 2015, 11:11:10
Ok, first try on the insignia:

(http://i.imgur.com/b9tBcrb.png)

I think I like the cavalry theme, and I also tried the copper/bronze-Steiner Blue combination. The embattlements symbolize the defensive nature of the brigade, and looking in the opposite direction of its front hoofs the horse seems ready to react in every direction.

Regarding the name... Kampfgruppe is just the term for an ad-hoc command to be disbanded when the situation changes. Cavalry is a little generic considering there are Uhlans, Hussars, Lancers, Cossacks, Bosniaks, Reitende Jäger (mounted Rangers), Cuirassiers, Dragoons and more, especially if you include medieval and ancient cavalry types.

You we could have Lyran Lancers, Commonwealth Cuirassiers, Hesperus Hussars, Ultimate Uhlans...  ^-^
In all seriousness, the Uhlans would be a good idea since they were heavy cavalry in German armies, whereas they were light cavalry in most other armies. I like Hussars but they are too light, imo. So I would opt for Commonwealth Uhlans
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 11 September 2015, 11:24:03
Nice. Commonwealth Uhlans it is. Pity CGL will never make it canon. Oh well, that's what fan works are for!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 11 September 2015, 14:06:27

Just remember the original idea was a brigade-sized formation, i.e. at least three complete RCTs. Having them all equipped with mostly jumpy mechs might be a bit of an overspecialization. You need heavy hitters to break any resistance and do it quickly, that is asking for a Lyran style wall of steel.
So I would indeed like to have an RCT primed for combat drops, but also a heavy RCT to follow up and break the enemy, and then mop-up RCT.

He also said for 3147...Steiner would be lucky to put together the regiment I listed above with how hard
hit they are. Frankly, they are in a position where they have to change, or die. Fielding even a single new
RCT(2 Mech Regiments, 1 Tank Regiment, 1 Infantry Regiment) would be tough for the era. Fielding three?
Nearly impossible. Fielding several independently operating combined arms reinforced regiments under one
banner? That is more likely.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 11 September 2015, 15:28:38
Nice

Thanks!


He also said for 3147...Steiner would be lucky to put together the regiment I listed above with how hard
hit they are.

Yes, that is why I said building a new brigade is unrealistic. Knowing and stating that it probably won't happen (and imo should not happen) is no reason not to engage in a little thought experiment, is it?  ;)

Currently the Commonwealth Jäger (1st Buena, 1st Bolan, 1st Steiner Strikers) with their great strategic mobility and high loyalty to Steiner are perhaps the next best thing in absence of a new brigade for QRF duties. It remains to be seen what side the Jäger regiments took during the Buena secession, though.
With the current shape of the LCAF I am indeed interested in what the assault group of Roderick Steiner looks like...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 September 2015, 16:12:41
The badge looks great! I think cataohractoi would be good if it wasn't so Roman/ Laio
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 11 September 2015, 17:33:22
Thanks!

While the name Cataphracts has a nice ring to it, my biggest problem is that it is from antiquity. Usually the unit names stem from post-medieval to early modern times, and that is what I like about the BTU military.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 11 September 2015, 19:17:49
Zouave is a unit type/name that is criminally under-represented in the BTU.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 12 September 2015, 13:53:00
Zouave is a unit type/name that is criminally under-represented in the BTU.

However, that would require it to be a unit of foreigners, recruited no questions asked with a brutal training
regiment that would often kill those training under it, all with the hope that after a certain number of years of
service, one would get Lyran citizenship. Such a unit would be perfect for the Wolf Empire's Freebirth units, but
not something I would really see for Steiner.

(The Zouave were the infantry units of the French Foreign Legion, right? All I could find was that it was
french light infantry operating in French North Africa between 1831 and 1962.)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 12 September 2015, 14:10:53
Well the historically accurate meanings of the various troop types such as Dragoons, Grenadiers, Hussars, and etc are moot in the BTU.  Names are chosen by the Rule of Cool.. not just by the real-world writers but also in-universe!

With that being said, Zouaves were originally French light infantry but with very distinctive uniforms.  Their reputation became such that militaries around the world began to copy them with special "Zouave" regiments inspired by the French... including the Papal States and both sides of the American Civil War.

That "Zouaves" came to mean brave, flamboyant troops makes it a frikkin' perfect name for a regiment of MechWarriors.

edit: here (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/62/FrancisBrownell.jpg) is a photo of a Union Zoave of the 11th New York Regiment, "The Fire Zouaves".
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 14 September 2015, 20:16:06
Indeed, Zouaves are strangly absent from the BTU. Since they were rather prominent units in the ACW, I would not have expected FASA and successors to forget about them (or ignore them). However, iirc, the German militaries never introduced them. Yes, I know the Commonwealth is not Germany-in-Space, and I like that very much, but still Zouaves would not be my first choice for a new Steiner brigade. That would be the Grenadiers.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 14 September 2015, 20:38:07
Hmm. If these guys were introduced sometime during the Succession Wars, I think they'd have a large number of the LCAF's -733C Highlanders, simply because it has roughly the same firepower as a standard Atlas in a jump-capable package.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 18 September 2015, 20:45:11
Jump-capable assaults pre-Clan Invasion is going to be a bit difficult, isn't it? There is the Highlander, yes, but what else? The Emperor was not in production and I am not even sure if it had been available to the LCAF when it was.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 18 September 2015, 20:49:42
There's the Highlander and the Victor.  That's pretty much it.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 18 September 2015, 22:26:08
The Lyrans don't like jumpjets anyway, it seems. Whenever I think of classic Steiner mechs, they don't have them - not even the lights (Commando, Wolfhound).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 18 September 2015, 23:03:57
Yeah, the Lyrans clearly don't like jumping mechs like the Griffin, Starslayer, Firestarter...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 18 September 2015, 23:35:20
It's not that they dislike jumping 'Mechs per se, it's just that they generally seem to prefer those without. Yes, most of their iconic 'Mechs don't jump, and I can imagine that from the Lyran perspective, there's a lot of "well why waste the tonnage on jets when you can put in more (or bigger) guns?"
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 18 September 2015, 23:37:51
In 3025, there weren't that many jumping mechs in any faction.

After 3025, the Steiners have gained a lot of iconic jumping designs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 19 September 2015, 00:21:43
The Lyrans don't like jumpjets anyway, it seems. Whenever I think of classic Steiner mechs, they don't have them - not even the lights (Commando, Wolfhound).
The Nightsky can be nasty with its jumping and hatchet.

Or the Uziel with its 6/9/6 movement profile.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 19 September 2015, 07:50:52
I did not mean to say the Lyrans do not produce mechs with jumpjets at all. ;)
I merely would say that many of their iconic mechs don't have them, the Griffin being a notable exeption. I doubt that Starslayer or Firestarter range anywhere near the Zeus or the Commando in being iconic. The same, I think, is true when talking about later mechs like Hauptmann, Fafnir, Thunderhawk or Wolfhound.

It is of course a futile debate how to rate "iconic"-ness, as everyone has its own opinion on it.  :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 22 September 2015, 14:30:30
Interestingly enough, the crossbow didn't have jump jets, but the Dervish ( which we originally made ) as a primitive did.

 I'm not a huge fan of jj's, I think they have their place but in most forces I'll stick with being on the ground, with maybe a couple jumpers in their own lance.
 The falconer is pretty iconic for us also, a Mech I would use in a heart beat.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 22 September 2015, 15:32:22
It is not like I generally dislike jumpjets, although as a 3025-child I am suspicious of assaults with them...

Anyway, it is interesting that the Commonwealth factories produced a number of heavy jumpers, but often foreign or jointly designed, and seldom exclusively in Lyran service (as exclusive as it gets in the BTU, I mean).
The Falconer e.g. is Davion-designed and continues to serve the FedSuns but is rare in Lyran service as of 3145. The Gunslinger is a mech I once liked, but also FedCom/DraCom jointly designed and currently (3145) not in Lyran but in FWL and Republic service. They are nice mechs though. :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 September 2015, 08:24:46
Falconer was designed by TharHes Industries. You can't get much more Lyran than that. Just because Hanse asked for a Mech to be made doesn't make it a FedSuns design. 

 I'm a 3025 baby myself, maybe that's why I'm not big on jumpers for Lyrans myself. The Banshee "Sawyer" ...ugh.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 23 September 2015, 14:08:37
You are right on the Falconer, I got that wrong. I would not mind TharHes resuming production of the Falconer anyway.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 September 2015, 15:10:47
Same, with some upgraded tech, although the base model is still Sweet.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 23 September 2015, 15:30:17
Come to think of it, why did the Falconer fall out of favor with the LCAF/LAAF anyway? It may be something requested by Hanse Davion, but it's still an excellent design for going up against the Jade Falcons, what with being able to match the mobility of the Jade Falcons' signature heavy (Summoner, 5/8/5) and carrying a headcapper and ER PPC.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 September 2015, 15:40:21
Probably just writer oversight.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 23 September 2015, 16:56:06
I am not sure. The TharHes-lines suffered heavily at the hands of the Blakists and never seemed to fully recover. A lot lines were discontinued after the Jihad, and only the Barghest was left, it seems. Interestingly, the only new mech-line was the Ursa, another four-legged mech.
So it might just be intended. Who knows, perhaps TharHes will focus on four-legged mechs and develope more of them or even bring back the Goliath one day.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 September 2015, 17:37:15
Maybe. I think of the Goliath as more of a FWL Mech though.

Who knows. Maybe it was just too bad ass a Mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 24 September 2015, 17:42:38
I thought that it was Defiance Industries that was producing the LC's upgraded Goliaths.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 24 September 2015, 18:05:02
Hm, I read about TharHes making the Goliath on Sarna, but as I see now, there is a citation missing...

Anyway, right, Defiance did produce the Goliath on Hesperus II even after the Jihad but in the FM:3145 it no longer appears on the LCAF roster (p.216). I have no idea what it means though...?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: JadedFalcon on 24 September 2015, 18:41:21
Maybe the Barghest supplanted the Falconer as the Lyran heavy cav mech. Same speed, appreciable firepower, more Lyran and less FedCommie? Looking at Sarna, the Ursa seems to fill a similar niche.

Though I wouldn't mind some Dark Age falconer variants or refits. The HPPC variant isn't much of a change from the production model. It's still a fun mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 24 September 2015, 21:00:33
Come to think of it, why did the Falconer fall out of favor with the LCAF/LAAF anyway? It may be something requested by Hanse Davion, but it's still an excellent design for going up against the Jade Falcons, what with being able to match the mobility of the Jade Falcons' signature heavy (Summoner, 5/8/5) and carrying a headcapper and ER PPC.

Simply put, its a Heavy 'Mech not an Assault 'Mech.  It was too light for traditional Lyrans.   >:D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 24 September 2015, 22:52:25
You know, that meme has really passed its expiration date.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 September 2015, 13:27:08
Yea, the 9-R is really nice. I'd hate to see dumb upgrades to it like an xxl engine or something like that. Maybe some x-pulses or something nice.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 September 2015, 13:30:45
BTW, if anyone is on Facebook I've started a Friends of the Lyran Commonwealth page.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 25 September 2015, 13:52:33
Yea, the 9-R is really nice. I'd hate to see dumb upgrades to it like an xxl engine or something like that. Maybe some x-pulses or something nice.

The Falconer is really the antithesis of Apollo's Law: there really isn't anything you can do to actually improve it without going to Clantech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 25 September 2015, 13:57:03
At the same time, it pays for all of those flashy features.  1887 BV for the 8R, with a XL engine... I dunno.  The Falconer appealed to me on a conceptual level more than practical.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 25 September 2015, 14:03:28
The Falconer is really the antithesis of Apollo's Law: there really isn't anything you can do to actually improve it without going to Clantech.

If you give it Light Ferro-Fibrous Armor, you will boost its armor protection.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 25 September 2015, 14:28:31
And that's about all you can possibly do without Clantech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 25 September 2015, 14:31:35
Well, there's Reflective Armor.  That would help in its intended role of Clan fighter.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 25 September 2015, 15:00:53
And that's about all you can possibly do without Clantech.

There's a handful options to upgrade or vary the -8R with Spheroidtech, some of which could be combined:

1) Upgrade some or all of the standard medium lasers to ER models.

2) Replace the standard Gauss with an SB Gauss for ranged critting and the cluster to-hit bonus.  (Nice to pair with the hole-punching of a canon -8R or other Gauss boat.)

3) Add an XL gyro.  Put the two spare tons into armor, heat sinks, more medium lasers, or miscellanea (ECM, AI, etc.).

4) Throw a capacitor on the ER PPC (or HPPC on the -9R).

5) Add Chameleon LPS.  Easily fits the crits and the +6 heat is barely manageable without adding freezers, although I'd probably use an XL gyro to get back to heat neutral on the long-range bracket with a couple extra freezers.

(Stealth armor is also an option if you don't like the canon rarity of CLPS.  But that requires a complete rework/elimination of the short-range bracket to accommodate the ECM and freezers needed for the stealth.)

6) Add TSM.  Again, easily fits the crits, although you have to tweak the short-range bracket (upgrade some medium lasers to ER and turn others into small lasers) to reliably hit the +9 heat needed to activate the TSM.  Given the shorter range of its HPPC and LB 10-X and its extra freezers that can be turned into lasers, this modification arguably makes more sense on the -9R.  An -8R with CLPS and a -9R with TSM would be a challenging pairing for the opposition.

FWIW... hope it helps.

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 25 September 2015, 16:22:05
Well, there's Reflective Armor.  That would help in its intended role of Clan fighter.

1: not enough crits
2: Ugh. :P

@Natasha- interesting suggestions, but I'm just not feeling the evil fuzzies I get when I see a really good upgrade to a mech I like.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 25 September 2015, 18:03:44
You know, that meme has really passed its expiration date.

That is not a good thing, though.  :(
Arc-Royal is lost, Coventry damaged and under attack, Tharkad barely producing... if the Commonwealth keeps receiving such blows, its capacity to quickly field a huge number of heavies and assaults will no longer be what it once was. Thank the gods Hesperus II, Furillo and Inarcs are still producing at full power. For now.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 25 September 2015, 18:29:15
I mean that the meme has been run into the ground to the point where there's absolutely no more humor to be wrung out of it.  It has nothing to do with the state of the Lyrans' industrial capacity.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 25 September 2015, 18:43:39
The Falconer's out of production c3079, as per Objectives: LA. I can only imagine that TharHes decided to focus on the Barghest and other entirely home-grown designs in the aftermath. It could also be that the Falconer's lines were a complete write-off with no salvageable equipment, something that's understandable given all that happened to Tharkad during the Jihad.

With that being said, the Falconer is still available to the LAAF/LCAF post-Jihad (As well as the AFFS, RAF and mercs) and I can't imagine that it's a rare design by any stretch.

There was some more fluff on the fate of Defiance's Goliath in the BattleCorps article on the new Fafnir variants. The Fafnir lines on Hesperus II were destroyed by the Word during their retreat from the world, ironically using 5WB Fafnirs to slag them. After the Jihad, Defiance chose to retool the surviving Goliath line (which had been retooled by the Word anyway) to produce Fafnirs instead. I see nothing at all wrong with this.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 25 September 2015, 19:53:03
The Falconer's out of production c3079, as per Objectives: LA. I can only imagine that TharHes decided to focus on the Barghest and other entirely home-grown designs in the aftermath. It could also be that the Falconer's lines were a complete write-off with no salvageable equipment, something that's understandable given all that happened to Tharkad during the Jihad.

It's also possible that as of the in-universe writing of Objectives: LA there simply wasn't a production run of Falconers currently funded.  For all anyone knows, enough investors got together after that source to fund a run or three of Falconers after the run of whatever was being produced with that infrastructure in 3079, perhaps Barghests, finishes.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 September 2015, 22:49:51
I mean that the meme has been run into the ground to the point where there's absolutely no more humor to be wrung out of it.  It has nothing to do with the state of the Lyrans' industrial capacity.

 I've been tired of it for years.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 26 September 2015, 08:25:59
Unfunny, old, and overused - yes. But it also had a realistic foundation in the industrial strength of the Lyrans, which is waning. The Wall of Steel, on which the LCAF still relies to an extend, needs all the industry it can get. (Of course the extend to which the LCAF relies on it has been vastly exaggerated).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Archangel on 26 September 2015, 19:32:34
You know, that meme has really passed its expiration date.

It doesn't make it any less accurate especially when combined with the push by Lyran traditionalists towards "true" Lyran designs over Davion or FedCom-spawned designs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caedis Animus on 26 September 2015, 21:29:41
"True" Lyran designs include such favorites as the Uziel and Commando. Granted, the pseudo-exclusive Lyran designs tend to be heavy or assault, but the Lyrans do have a lot of home grown mediums and lights.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 26 September 2015, 22:09:59
Best when you can combine two or more aspects of stereotypical behavior, like the Blitzkrieg.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caedis Animus on 27 September 2015, 00:17:58
I keep forgetting that is a Lyran 'mech, funny enough.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 27 September 2015, 03:45:55
Best when you can combine two or more aspects of stereotypical behavior, like the Blitzkrieg.

Honestly, I see the point of the stereotypes for the Lyrans..it is because the two tactics work well together.
You have the Wall of Steel trundle up the middle, right where the enemy has to engage it, then the
faster things like Blitzkriegs, Uziels, Star Slayers, Commanders, and Wolfhounds come in from flanking
or, worse, from behind...What are you going to do? Turn to engage the lighter, faster mechs engaging you,
and the Wall of steel eviscerates your forces from behind. Focus on the Wall of Steel, and your forces
are going to start the spiral of losses as the lighter units start wearing you down by paper cuts. Split
your forces to engage both? Well...dividing your forces in the face of the enemy is not usually a good idea...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 27 September 2015, 09:40:31
Add in darts,stealth,nightsky,scarabus,Mjolnir,razorback,spector,and stiletto just to name a few. Yea, wall of steel and some of the best lights and mediums in the IS.

We got this.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 27 September 2015, 10:05:12
Agreed. Actually my favourite mech is light and Lyran, the Wolfhound. I mean, the LCAF had dedicated light&mobile companies in all their regiments as early as 3028, having learned from the best, including the Davion Light Guards. (There no shame in admitting that someone can do something better and learning from him). And the Lyran mech works easily provided excellent mechs for those companies, again as early as 3028.

The mech selection of the Lyrans never left much to desire. No matter the weight class, there is almost always a Lyran design I can love. The fluff may favour the Wall of Steel, and that is fine, but technically you could build a Lyran force to almost any doctrine you like.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 27 September 2015, 22:13:52
When you look at the old "Random Lance Type" rules for the Lyrans in FM:  LA, it says to add +1 to the roll when rolling for Lance weight.  So, yes, they are slightly more likely to be heavier.

BUT, if you compare that to, say, the Davion Heavy Guards, the Davion Assault Guards, and some of the Clans in Operation KLONDIKE (and maybe even in FM: CC and WC, I don't recall), it's not so drastic.  So yes, the Lyrans do have SLIGHTLY more heavy forces than the other Houses.  No, they are not REMOTELY all heavy and assault mechs.  Not by a LONG shot.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 28 September 2015, 09:59:47
I can't remember where I read it now but I remember reading that our weight average for regiments is in the heavy class. As opposed to most other houses which are medium.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 28 September 2015, 10:27:36
There is this:

(http://i.imgur.com/N3BaKQJ.jpg)
From:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

I am not sure if the numbers are 100% correct but they feel right.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 28 September 2015, 22:36:16
I think that's the one.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Arthinas on 02 October 2015, 12:19:24
So what sorts of jump-capable assaults does the Commonwealth field, anyway? I can't really think of any iconic Lyran assaults that can jump. Or lights, really.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 02 October 2015, 12:23:19
Well, there's always the Highlander built on Son Hoa.  It might not be iconic, but it jumps.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 02 October 2015, 12:23:38
Jump Jets do seem to be a low priority for native Lyran designs.. but they used their fair share of standard/universal mechs, including Highlanders. 

Ninjad.. but agree with my ninja.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 02 October 2015, 12:31:24
So what sorts of jump-capable assaults does the Commonwealth field, anyway? I can't really think of any iconic Lyran assaults that can jump. Or lights, really.

Assaults:
BRZ-D4 Berserker
VTR-9S Victor
AS7-K3 Atlas
EMP-6A/6S Emperor
Highlander
Gunslinger
Salamander
Hauptmann
Nightstar
Xanthos
LGB-12R Longbow
Marauder II
Sunder
Zeus

Lights:
Firestarter
Ostscout
Commando
Battle Hawk
Arctic Fox
Spector
Stinger
Wasp

Surely many more, this should suffice for now.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caedis Animus on 03 October 2015, 02:24:19
On a random subject-anyone know what LCAF/LAAF would prefer as artillery? I would say "Long Tom" or "Cruise Missile" because of the bigger is better philosophy, but I'm curious as to what they really use the most.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 03 October 2015, 03:22:52
On a random subject-anyone know what LCAF/LAAF would prefer as artillery? I would say "Long Tom" or "Cruise Missile" because of the bigger is better philosophy, but I'm curious as to what they really use the most.
Arrow IV
Arrow IV Thunder Hawk variant
Arrow IV Longbow
Pilum
Demolisher
Arrow IV Assault Vehicle + Gun Trailer
Chaparral
Testudo
*

Thumper
Gun Trailer
Padilla (wheeled)
Thumper artillery vehicle

Sniper
Helepolis
Marksman (SL artillery)
Padilla (wheeled)
Sniper SPG

Long Tom
Mobile Long Tom
Padilla (wheeled Long Tom model)
Gulltoppr
Rommel (Howitzer)

I would imagine something like this:
1) I would say that better-equipped mobile regiments, that are expected to redeploy quickly and between various planets and sometimes hostile environments, would have Thunder Hawks and Longbows.
2) Defensive units probably have to go with with wheeled Padillas armed with all three kinds of tube artillery weapons) and Gun trailers. Some SL units maybe.
3) And somewhere inbetween are average Lyran units. Not the first choice to spearhead planetary invasion, but with better equipment that hand-me-downs used by garrison formations. I would give them Sniper SPGs, Arrow IV vehicles, Demolishers and Testudos.

* Almost forgot. In theory the Lyrans could buy PKM-2C Patriot produced by the Regulans. There's a 'Mech trade between both nations.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 03 October 2015, 10:50:36
The Gultoppr and Rommel (Howitzer) both mount Long Tom Cannons, the cut down, short range version of the gun.  They're not artillery pieces.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 03 October 2015, 10:55:03
The Gultoppr and Rommel (Howitzer) both mount Long Tom Cannons, the cut down, short range version of the gun.  They're not artillery pieces.
I know. I simply went with "it has a big gun, it's artillery."
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 October 2015, 12:48:32
Zeus X3 has IJJ'S
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caedis Animus on 04 October 2015, 00:42:48
Honestly, I have always had a special place in my heart regarding how much I hate the Zeus X series. The mixture of composite structure and XXL engines on something is just too... Squishy, to be a real Lyran machine. Everything else about them I can forgive, but that is not one of them.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 04 October 2015, 01:38:17
Honestly, I have always had a special place in my heart regarding how much I hate the Zeus X series. The mixture of composite structure and XXL engines on something is just too... Squishy, to be a real Lyran machine. Everything else about them I can forgive, but that is not one of them.
Fortunately, the Lyrans have about 3-4 good Zeus variants, so they don't have to use sucking Zeus X series.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 October 2015, 13:28:14
I like the Stacy
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 05 October 2015, 14:45:08
I like the Stacy
Not bad. Such 'Mech makes sense, both for Stacy and for the Lyrans in general.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Jellico on 05 October 2015, 21:44:34
Trutzburg.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 October 2015, 22:46:35
Trutzburg.

 BWAHAHAHAHA  ;D. yea, that'll work.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: wantec on 06 October 2015, 06:33:22
And if you look at all the Zeus variants in Alpha Strike, they're all pretty similar.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 07 October 2015, 14:44:04
I keep forgetting that is a Lyran 'mech, funny enough.

Yeah, only has the probably most German (Lyran?) sounding name of all Lyran Mechs.  :))
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caedis Animus on 07 October 2015, 15:00:57
Lyrans are not really "Germany IN SPACE!", but I can see where it can be construed as odd that I wouldn't see the Blitzkrieg as a Lyran 'mech.

Anyhow, I always assumed it was a Davion 'mech. Not sure why.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 07 October 2015, 15:16:55
Because the Stuka is a Davion ASF?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Caedis Animus on 08 October 2015, 16:49:48
No, not because of that.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 08 October 2015, 17:06:33
Because of the Davion knock-off, the Legionnaire?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 October 2015, 17:30:17
Lyrans are not really "Germany IN SPACE!", but I can see where it can be construed as odd that I wouldn't see the Blitzkrieg as a Lyran 'mech.

Anyhow, I always assumed it was a Davion 'mech. Not sure why.

 Of course it's Lyran. It has an ultra 20 and its fast.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 11 October 2015, 09:01:34
Yeah, only has the probably most German (Lyran?) sounding name of all Lyran Mechs.  :))

That name makes me cringe. It is not like we have a shortage of military terms in German. No need to resort to that period.  :-\

I personally like names from German(-ic) mythology, Nagelring and Fafnir for example.
Also, sometimes, German names instead of English ones are nice, like Hauptmann (instead of Captain) or Götterdämmerung (Twilight of the Gods/Ragnarök).

... if you combine that, you can take the names strait from Richard Wagner's Ring Cycle.  :)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 October 2015, 11:42:15
I'd rather not take anything from Wagner. I'll take it straight from the original Edda.

Unfortunately for us a lot of good Germanic names were given to clan mechs. I'd love to have some mechs that we made named after the gods... Oh well. We could name some after heros though.

 Imagine a 75tonner with a sword, tsm, a hvy gauss and some close in guns called Sigurd.
 A medium with with masc and supercharger, heavy ppc, stealth and a lance ( spear ) called Brynhild.

 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Jellico on 11 October 2015, 22:00:18
I'd rather not take anything from Wagner. I'll take it straight from the original Edda.

Unfortunately for us a lot of good Germanic names were given to clan mechs. I'd love to have some mechs that we made named after the gods... Oh well. We could name some after heros though.

 Imagine a 75tonner with a sword, tsm, a hvy gauss and some close in guns called Sigurd.
 A medium with with masc and supercharger, heavy ppc, stealth and a lance ( spear ) called Brynhild.
And the Lyrans came through and cleaned up all the canine and Scandinavian names. Swings and roundabouts.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 October 2015, 23:42:45
We weren't left with much.

 All the other factions did the same with their units too though.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 12 October 2015, 14:36:00
I'd rather not take anything from Wagner. I'll take it straight from the original Edda.

The Edda with its clearly Norse background is better suited for Rasalhague. Although it naturally includes themes found in all works based on Germanic mythology, it is more Scandinavian than German – beginning with the language. The extensive Old&Middle High German heroic literature is a much better choice for  the Lyrans, i.e. stuff like the Nibelungenlied (Song of the Nibelungs) or the Middle High German interpretations of the Thidrek's Saga like the Eckenlied.
There is even something for the Donegal Guards, the Gudrunslied.  ^-^


Unfortunately for us a lot of good Germanic names were given to clan mechs. I'd love to have some mechs that we made named after the gods... Oh well. We could name some after heros though.

True! There are many heros who would be good name sakes.
I'd love to see Hildebrand and Hadubrand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildebrandslied
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 13 October 2015, 09:39:47
Surely there is a Kaspar Hauser reference waiting to be used.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 22 October 2015, 17:19:36
It seems the Lyrans have an image problem. When the Wolfhound was introduced to the MWO game, people were convinced it was a Davion design or at least heavily influenced by Davion designers. Of course, the Wolfhound is pure Lyran, except the full-head cockpit ejection.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Maelwys on 22 October 2015, 19:04:00
Well, there's probably some reasoning behind the confusion. The original pilot of the Wolfhound was Danial Allard, who, while being a member of the Kell Hounds, graduated from a Davion military academy. And I'm not positive, since I think it might only be mentioned in the novels, but I want to say the design was influenced by Dr.Banzai, but again, I'm not positive.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Terrace on 22 October 2015, 20:15:44
So, what's the status on the Lyran OmniFighter trio? Are they moving to full production of the three chassis instead of their old stuff, or is their industry still working on older designs?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 23 October 2015, 15:04:54
Well, there's probably some reasoning behind the confusion. The original pilot of the Wolfhound was Danial Allard, who, while being a member of the Kell Hounds, graduated from a Davion military academy. And I'm not positive, since I think it might only be mentioned in the novels, but I want to say the design was influenced by Dr.Banzai, but again, I'm not positive.

Dr. Banzai did construct the head-ejection, according to the Warrior Trilogy.
Anyway, it is possible that Allard's scenes with the Wolfhound created the impression it was a Davion Mech. I am just a little flabbergasted because the Wolfhound was one of the first new Mechs since the fall of the SL. And it served a very specific purpose for the Lyran Commonwealth – one for which the Davions with their superior mobility had not an urgent need, at least not as urgent as the LCAF.
In the 20ies, the AFFS were the very best in terms of martial prowess (which combined with the hero status in the early novels made people wary of them, I  guess), but the Lyrans were almost as bad as their reputation. The Wolfhound was a sign that things changed.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 October 2015, 10:07:02
It seems that game is flooded with Davions and clanner, with some others mixed in.

 I think most are just gamers who really don't know history of BT or lore or what ever you want to call it. So of course all the best things ever created were created by the Fedrats.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 24 October 2015, 10:33:43
Well, there are quite a lot people who do not care about the lore much, that is true. But then, people here are more of the hardcore BTU fans anyway, while MWO attracts a larger playerbase.
It is still telling that people refused to believe it is a Steiner design until given a direct TRO quote.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 October 2015, 10:49:01
They're just ignorant. It's our job to learn them... #STEINER!!!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: BigDuke66 on 05 November 2015, 16:52:11
Yea in the good old German tradition we should conquer and teach them!  ;D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 November 2015, 20:54:12
Time for a BLITZKRIEG!!!

#STEINER!!!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: BigDuke66 on 06 November 2015, 01:01:07
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7199/129103258599436293.jpg)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 06 November 2015, 11:12:55
Yea in the good old German tradition we should conquer and teach them!  ;D

*Top starts singing the Battlemechlied*
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 10 November 2015, 09:59:52
Perhaps, we will see some more warlike Lyrans indeed.

In the beginning, I for one was glad that Steiner was not the stereotypical WWII-German flavoured faction, but influenced by post-war West-Germany (or rather what Americans imagined it to be in the 80ies): good economy, lots of trading, generally not looking for war, but with a well equipped military that had some leadership issues.
Despite all the misfortunes of the Commonwealth under Katherine Davion, the added references to Germanic mythology (even if they seem to have trouble understanding it...) spiced up that flavour considerably.

Now, the big change of the Dark Age might be that after everything the Lyrans have been through and after the heavy damage to the industrial base, the surviving LCAF emerge as a far deadlier and far more aggressive force.
... if it survives.
Anyway, I doubt we will see a resurgence of the dominating industrial powerhouse any time soon. The damage is too great. The Commonwealth and the LCAF have to adapt and find new ways.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 11 November 2015, 11:34:44
New Elsies toys ;)

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=33799.msg1149630#msg1149630
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 12 November 2015, 18:32:55
I love the TRO and appreciate the work that has gone into it, but still don't like what they made of the Götterdämmerung. It is a totally different Mech now that just has the name and weight in common. Some ideas are sensible, e.g. armouring the pit, using energy weapons only, and ECM. Other just lead too far astray from the original idea, especially the use of a standard engine.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 13 November 2015, 05:00:36
Maybe so, it's clearly the better Mech though.  ;D As for the handheld weapon, when you look at the GDs artwork, I think it actually makes sense. Standard engine is what I have been advocating for a long time too. It's what should have been in there in the first place.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 13 November 2015, 11:03:36
Most of the fan Mechs are better Mechs than the stock versions. Didn't one of the devs state they do not design perfect Mechs (at least not all the time)?
I personally think the general direction of the Götterdämmerung is right: compact engine, CT weaponry, max armour. I'd just remove the ammo based weapons, use an armoured cockpit, and use ECM in a side torso. But I also look forward to the new versions coming soon, especially the clan-tech version.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 14 November 2015, 12:50:30
Short question:

Did the LCAF have some King Crabs during the 4th SW? I know there was the downgraded KGC-0000, but was it still in service with the LCAF?
It is a little clichéd, but double AC/20 just feel right for Steiner.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 14 November 2015, 13:01:57
Short question:

Did the LCAF have some King Crabs during the 4th SW? I know there was the downgraded KGC-0000, but was it still in service with the LCAF?
It is a little clichéd, but double AC/20 just feel right for Steiner.

Everybody had them, albeit in relatively small numbers.

One one hand, they were often focus of enemy fire, as all Assault 'Mechs in such role would be. On the other hand, the KGC-0000 usually runs out of ammo very soon, which - in combination with its thick armor - makes it a quite durable 'Mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 14 November 2015, 17:24:45
MUL lists the downgraded 0000 King Crab as "Inner Sphere General" so yes. Though I wouldn't expect to see very many of them
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 14 November 2015, 17:31:10
I'd expect that the Atlas far, far outnumbered the King Crab's downgrade in Lyran units.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 14 November 2015, 18:18:42
Considering they're produced on Kathil, I doubt we had many until the marriage.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 14 November 2015, 18:32:40
The King Crab was produced on Northwind.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 14 November 2015, 19:16:12
I think production for the Successors (except ComStar) only resumed after the Clan Invasion. I was just wondering if any of the downgraded KGC-0000 survived until the 4th SW, and it seems some did.

Is there a reasonable assumption in what units the remaining King Crabs would have served? Perhaps some units were given priority for the King Crabs when originally assigned, so that they had more to begin with and consequently more which survived. I could imagine the Royal Guards to treasure them...
Or is it purely random where they survived?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 15 November 2015, 00:27:13
Or is it purely random where they survived?
Random.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 15 November 2015, 00:57:22
Corsara Weapons was destroyed early in the First SW. Any KGC-0000s wree actually surviving 000s that had been downgraded due to a lack of replacement parts. By the end of the 3rd SW, only "a handful" survived in the Inner Sphere. Those that did would have been largely due to luck and circumstance and likely scattered to random units wherever they wound up.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 15 November 2015, 12:32:29
Corsara Weapons was destroyed early in the First SW. Any KGC-0000s wree actually surviving 000s that had been downgraded due to a lack of replacement parts.

Sarna says it was produced by GM:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/King_Crab
The TRO:3025 Revised on which the info is based merely lists GM as manufacturer, but considering so many components are different (Imperator vs Deathgiver AC, Simpson vs Doombud LRM, Magna vs ExoStar LL, FF vs standard armour, CASE vs no CASE), there may have been a short production run.

I would appreciate clearer information very much, though.


Random.

Fine. A bit boring from the story-telling point of view, but it gives all liberties to assign the KGC-0000 to whatever unit I like.  :)
I still think it fits the high prestige units more than Militias or Regulars.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 15 November 2015, 12:51:18
I would certainly expect that a high-prestige unit (especially one that didn't face combat too regularly) would have an easier time getting the parts needed to keep a KGC-0000 running in good condition.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 15 November 2015, 14:26:53
The King Crab was produced on Northwind.

By GM on Kathil also.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 15 November 2015, 17:27:54
The orignal Star League era production of the King Crab was Corsara on Northwind. The TRO3039 and TRO3050U entries on the 'Mech state that it was not in production during the Succession Wars and it definitely wasn't produced by GM.

Take any info on Sarna with a grain of salt, especially when it's quoting older sources

Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 15 November 2015, 18:38:52
The orignal Star League era production of the King Crab was Corsara on Northwind. The TRO3039 and TRO3050U entries on the 'Mech state that it was not in production during the Succession Wars and it definitely wasn't produced by GM.

Take any info on Sarna with a grain of salt, especially when it's quoting older sources

I think TRO 3025R (which, admittedly, is an older source) mentions GM as a producer of the KC.  And the notable pilot entry for...Lisa Buhallin, is it?  One of the Falcon Founders, notes that she picked up her prototype KC from a GM plant.  I have no idea who TRO 2750 lists as a producer.  But yeah, out of production during the Succession Wars, BUT I think GM may have produced them at one point.

Cosara though is definitely who I think of first with the KC.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 15 November 2015, 20:51:33
TRO2750 gives Corsara as the manufacturer as well.

Save for that one line in TRO3025r, which in and of itself is a bit of a mess, there's no evidence of GM ever making the King Crabbe
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: JadedFalcon on 15 November 2015, 21:36:21
Looks like TRO3039 reinforces the rarity of the King Crab. It suggests the GM production was extremely limited with all the remaining 010s they made leaving with Kerensky.

For later eras, the 007 and the 009 look interesting, if plasma rifles and/or rotary-5s are acceptable to your Lyran sensibilities. Too bad they don't get the LB-20X variants.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 16 November 2015, 13:53:34
I'd like an ultra 20 version but we have a Fafnir for that.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 16 November 2015, 14:15:33
Thinking about Lyran King Crabs... what exactly did Linda McDonald pilot in the FCCW? The only KGC available to the LAAF were, according to the MUL, 0000 and 001. Unless she had a museum piece, it must have been the 001. Or am I overlooking something?
Furthermore I think the 007 is pretty cool. I like it more than the 009.

What do you think about the non-canon fan KGC-009b?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 16 November 2015, 14:33:36
Thinking about Lyran King Crabs... what exactly did Linda McDonald pilot in the FCCW? The only KGC available to the LAAF were, according to the MUL, 0000 and 001. Unless she had a museum piece, it must have been the 001. Or am I overlooking something?
Furthermore I think the 007 is pretty cool. I like it more than the 009.

She had KGC-000.

Although not normally available to the Lyrans, she probably restored her Succession Wars downgraded KGC-0000 to the Star League -000 standard.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 16 November 2015, 16:59:29
Interesting! Where is this mentioned?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 16 November 2015, 17:02:23
Interesting! Where is this mentioned?

In the novel Storms of Fate.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 16 November 2015, 17:21:49
Probably an 001, though I wouldn't consider the 000 out of the question even if it's not listed on the MUL.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 16 November 2015, 20:35:45
The best use of the MUL is for forming Military Units of any given faction. For individual Mechwarriors of renown all bets are off.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 17 November 2015, 10:47:24
In my translation of the novel, no model is named; McDonald simply has a King Crab. She uses AC/20s though, which means it was no -001.
My head-canon is indeed that she had a -0000 refit to more modern standards.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 17 November 2015, 14:10:26
The best use of the MUL is for forming Military Units of any given faction. For individual Mechwarriors of renown all bets are off.

Aces, notable warriors, etc can get whatever they feel like...Because Salvage and great techs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 22 November 2015, 17:52:12
Regarding notable MechWarriors...

... Sarna says Frederick Steiner piloted an Atlas during his last assault on Dromini VI, but there is no reference. I know the old Handbook said he had a Zeus, which I think would be a better choice for him, but this information is from before the Dromini assault. Where can I find something on his last Mech he used in combat (as Frederick Steiner, at least)?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 22 November 2015, 18:12:39
Regarding notable MechWarriors...

... Sarna says Frederick Steiner piloted an Atlas during his last assault on Dromini VI, but there is no reference. I know the old Handbook said he had a Zeus, which I think would be a better choice for him, but this information is from before the Dromini assault. Where can I find something on his last Mech he used in combat (as Frederick Steiner, at least)?

The relevant chapter(s) in Heir to the Dragon would likely be the canonical reference answering that question.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: JadedFalcon on 22 November 2015, 20:04:12
This is backed up by the FASA 4th Succession War battlepack which has a scenario, In the Claw of the Dragon that puts Frederick Steiner in an AS7-D Atlas. (Fun little scenario, too.)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 22 November 2015, 20:59:06
Thanks!  O0
I would have liked a Zeus, but I cannot argue with canon... (Not that an Atlas is a bad choice for a Lyran Duke; a Zeus just has a more Lyran charme).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 22 November 2015, 22:17:21
I think an atlas is pretty appreciate.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 23 November 2015, 11:55:24
It is a fine command Mech no doubt as well as a testimony to the greatness of Defiance Industries. So I have no problem with Frederick riding an Atlas.
I just somehow imagined the nationalistic ego of him demanded to use the pride and joy of the LCAF, even if it was not the best choice. In 3028, I'd argue the AS7-D was the better choice, at least when compared to the ZEU-6S.

I have a soft spot for other Zeus versions, though. ZEU-5S for example fascinates me, while the -9T must be an all time favourite of mine.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 23 November 2015, 12:41:08
I've always pictured it as the Atlas is the ride for officers in the nobility, while the Zeus is the ride for the non-nobles.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jackson123 on 23 November 2015, 13:03:05
Then a banshe would be for lower ranking noble officers.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 23 November 2015, 13:35:41
No, the Banshee would be fore people who actually knew how to pilot a mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 23 November 2015, 13:39:15
It was my impression that many Lyran social generals are not especially skilled MechWarriors.

I would imagine them riding BNC-3S Banshee or HGN-733/733P Highlander, attempting to snipe with Banshee's PPCs and AC or with Highlander's PPC and LRMs, so they don't have to brawl because their lack of piloting skill would be too obvious.

Of course, some Lyran generals would probably take the Atlas, parking it behind the front and using it to lob LRMs, closing in the AC range only if the battle is almost won.

Not-noble-born or more active Lyran MechWarriors would pilot the Zeus (something as Lyran "heavy" workhorse), Lyran BattleMaster or the Stalker.

And those even less well-connected would get the Striker.  ;)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 November 2015, 14:32:40
No, the Banshee would be fore people who actually knew how to pilot a mech.

 I am very much of this opinion also. It's a favorite ride of mine.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 23 November 2015, 17:12:34
The Zeus was designed to be a long range fighter for commanding officers, so that they can stay at range (TRO:3025R). Consequently it makes sense to imagine officers higher than Kommandants in a Zeus, especially as the Hauptmann is often the highest officer to consistently see battle (which is why the Omni was named Hptm).

But Mech choices are not totally rational all the time. TRO:3050U notes the Zeus is "prized by officers and nobility across the Lyran Alliance even today", whereas the Davionistas always disrespected the Mech and demoted it to second-line formations. This fact is very interesting, as the Zeus with its emphasis on mobility and fire on the move is actually fairly well suited for AFFS tactics. It underlines again that Mech choices can be irrational.

The very highest officers of the LCAF certainly preferred the heaviest beasts, which means Atlas and Banshee (and a few oddities like surviving King Crabs), perhaps Cyclops if you wanted to go 'light'. The Atlas was probably favoured for being a terrifying Mech strongly associated with Kerensky. From that point of view I have no problems with Frederick using an Atlas.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 23 November 2015, 17:47:10
The satalite uplink on the Atlas doesn't hurt too.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 24 November 2015, 19:05:38
True. (Although it is one of the mysteries why not every Mech has such an uplink...).
Does the Atlas support a second person in the cockpit? So that one can command, one can pilot the Mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 24 November 2015, 19:23:44
There's a Command Console variant of the AS7-D in Record Sheets 3039 Unabridged.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 27 November 2015, 17:23:29
While reading through TRO 3145 Clans again, I wondered if any of the more recent canon sources shed light on when (or how for that matter) the LC took Pandora from the Falcons before 3130. Does anyone here know perchance?
According to the MUL, it must have been past 3099, but not that much later given how the Elsies had "decades" to sell the Skadi and Skanda.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 30 November 2015, 18:46:13
Good question... I would appreciate more info on the back and forth on the Falcon-Commonwealth border in general. Was it a 3rd SW-style low intensity conflict? Were there major offensives? What about a war in the shadows between the Falcon Watch and LIC & MID? (The LIC should be vastly superior...)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: martian on 02 December 2015, 14:55:14
Good question... I would appreciate more info on the back and forth on the Falcon-Commonwealth border in general. Was it a 3rd SW-style low intensity conflict? Were there major offensives? What about a war in the shadows between the Falcon Watch and LIC & MID? (The LIC should be vastly superior...)

Canon materials suggest that there were many smaller border raids.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Phobos on 02 December 2015, 17:02:52
Post-3085, Pandora was arguably the second most important planet to the Falcons...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: False Son on 02 December 2015, 17:06:26
Retaking it and taking Arcturus were said to have doubled the industrial output of the Falcons.  That should give you an idea of the sad state of things pre Desant.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 18 December 2015, 15:24:01
Retaking it and taking Arcturus were said to have doubled the industrial output of the Falcons.  That should give you an idea of the sad state of things pre Desant.

It does point out where the LCAF should strike if they can manage to find any forces for a limited offensive on the Falcon front.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 December 2015, 16:12:13
Well, if we can survive the falcon and wolf attack ( not sure if there's more about that ) then we need to secure our borders, take stock of what's left and rebuild.

 If we repulse this attack on Hesperus then we may not have much left. But neither would the Falcons.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 20 December 2015, 10:42:18
I assume you mean the Coventry, since the fight for Hesperus was already won (with relatively few losses).

Anyway, after the fall of Arc-Royal and the Buena secession, which cost the LCAF some more regiments, every battle for an important planet is an endgame until the strategic situation changes dramatically. The Commonwealth still has more than enough resources to rebuild, but breathing time is needed. There are many scenarios possible, like a Wolf-Falcon war for Terra, a Ghost Bear attack on the Falcons, even an alliance with the Hegemony.

But I still think the Kell Hounds, being loyal Lyran soldiers and mercs in name only, are on a mission to save the Commonwealth. And I count on them.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Top Sergeant on 24 December 2015, 22:04:42
Merry Christmas! May you get a 'Mech under your tree!  8)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 December 2015, 23:26:28
Fröhliche Weihnachten
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 25 December 2015, 02:03:02
So does the 15th Lyran Regulars have any notable screen time in the fiction?  They are pretty much the memetic definition of a Lyran unit, with that monster +4 modifier on the unit weight table.  Not going to have miniatures anytime soon, but I figured I'd throw around and organize a battalion plus the command company around Xotl's RATs for the early eras.  I understand they're still active in 3145, and through the Jihad held Melissia (per Sarna) but there's nothing after that nada. Would love to know how they got the big clan rearmament for 3085...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 December 2015, 09:29:45
The 15th didn't have much novel time that I can remember. They've been in some major conflicts though. They got the clan salvage through bulldog.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 02 January 2016, 20:31:18
Frohes Neues!

Let me start the new year with a couple of questions related to the Marauder in Lyran service between the Clan Invasion and the Civil War. I know the LCAF had a lot of Marauders as per MUL, but I am more interested in the production. The original TRO:3050 says the original updated Marauder was the "shared" MAD-5D, but as the Combine captured Quentin and the plans for the -5D, the Lyran Bowie plant switched to the redesigned -5S version.
The Lyrans had the -5D during the Jihad, which seems to imply initially high numbers in their ranks. So did Bowie have a (limited?) production of the -5D? Or did Kathil, the FedSuns producer of the -5D, deliver so many to the Lyrans? Perhaps when Katherine Davion took over the FedCom, she ordered to deliver some -5Ds to the Lyrans...? Interestingly, the -5S was also in Davion service up to the Jihad, implying a high level of exchange.
Also, could it be that the MAD-5D was somehow shunned by the Lyrans for being too 'Davion' or just too foreign, in the way that the Zeus was shunned in the FedSuns?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 02 January 2016, 23:08:45
I am of the opinion that since we were one big happy family  :P that things were shipped everywhere. The Kallon plant was a monster, considering everything that came out of there, so it's possible that's where they came from.

 I don't think Katy Steiner cared a whole lot about whether it was a D or S model. It was a mech to be used to do her bidding. There were lots of Davions that were happy to be Steiners and fight against Vic, so maybe they ordered them before the war started and preferences them. Who knows...
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 03 January 2016, 15:49:12
I am of the opinion that since we were one big happy family  :P that things were shipped everywhere. The Kallon plant was a monster, considering everything that came out of there, so it's possible that's where they came from.

That's probably it. Desiring to created the unified AFFC, it makes sense to spread the equippment as evenly as possible. However it is strange that they kept the "D"[avion] designation, even though it was originally meant to be used by both halves alike. A new FedCom designation ("FC" - was there ever such a thing?) may have eased the process of unifying the military, rather than reminding people what model came from where...

... and the MAD-5S is the better version anyway.  >:D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 03 January 2016, 16:43:07
Which part is superior?  The thinner armor or the Gauss Rifle with one ton of ammo?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 03 January 2016, 16:50:30
The way I look at most variants (which, admittedly, is not very tidy in terms of canon) is that, unless a variant is using some sort of proprietary technology (most of which don't stay very proprietary for long anyway, but for the sake of argument Stealth Armor, Heavy Gauss, RACs, etc), most of the Houses likely field/produce small numbers of the variants with the serial numbers filed off, and with locally produced equivalent components (or whatever).

"Hey Lyran, nice 5D you've got there!"
"That isn't a 5D, it's a 5Spr71q, a superior Lyran machine!"
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 03 January 2016, 17:17:39
The way I look at most variants (which, admittedly, is not very tidy in terms of canon) is that, unless a variant is using some sort of proprietary technology (most of which don't stay very proprietary for long anyway, but for the sake of argument Stealth Armor, Heavy Gauss, RACs, etc), most of the Houses likely field/produce small numbers of the variants with the serial numbers filed off, and with locally produced equivalent components (or whatever).

"Hey Lyran, nice 5D you've got there!"
"That isn't a 5D, it's a 5Spr71q, a superior Lyran machine!"

Interesting thought. I would also assume some people and units care more for the provenience of the Mech than others. I imagine in the Royal Guards they might be a bit more choosy, whereas the Regulars would appreciate any capable Mech no matter who build it. The fact that the Combine put the -5D into production without changes is also pretty telling - perhaps that is where the internal or informal renaming comes in. (Perhaps, though, in case of the Combine it is a matter of some warrior's pride to use the captured machine of the enemy against him. Combine fans may enlighten me).
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: JadedFalcon on 03 January 2016, 18:48:20
Remember that the Clan front had been described as a meat grinder from 3050-3052. So you would see a great deal of FedSuns hardware and troops shuffled off to the Lyran side, and good Prince Victor was dedicated to keeping the meat grinder supplied, given his noteworthy choices in 3057.

Which part is superior?  The thinner armor or the Gauss Rifle with one ton of ammo?

The MAD-5S has superior long-range capabilities, and the armor is exactly the same as every other non-munched Marauder of the era. And the parts are domestically produced, improving logistics (I'm sure greased palms played a part as well). The Lyrans also make their own Warhammers, Thunderbolts, and two flavors of Crusader. A dedicated heavy sniper makes more sense for their needs than a 75-ton assault mech.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 03 January 2016, 21:03:18
The MAD-5S combines an XL engine, a Gauss Rifle and dubious side torso armour. LYran engineering at its best!
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 January 2016, 21:37:19
The MAD-5S combines an XL engine, a Gauss Rifle and dubious side torso armour. LYran engineering at its best!

 Being a fire support Mech it's not going to see much slose in combat. Being that it won't see much close in combat it's less likely to be hit.

 The XL engine is a good trade off for the damage it puts out. We're actually wealthy enough and have the production capacity to be able to repair or replace XL engines if needed.

 That way we can get more falcon salvage.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: JadedFalcon on 03 January 2016, 23:48:40
The MAD-5S combines an XL engine, a Gauss Rifle and dubious side torso armour. LYran engineering at its best!

And the CASE makes it entirely salvagable. You just have to win.

Starting to wonder if the Falconer is a compromise between the MAD-5S and the MAD-5D.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Deadborder on 04 January 2016, 03:11:36
Being a fire support Mech it's not going to see much slose in combat. Being that it won't see much close in combat it's less likely to be hit.

 The XL engine is a good trade off for the damage it puts out. We're actually wealthy enough and have the production capacity to be able to repair or replace XL engines if needed.

 That way we can get more falcon salvage.

Except it's primary intended opponents are Clan 'Mechs armed with longer-ranged, harder hitting weapons and typically piloted by superior MechWarriors. And added to that, it doesn't have enough ammo to keep sniping for that long, and it's secondary weapons don't really help either
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 January 2016, 13:14:06
Erppcs don't have ammo. With the Gauss, just take the good shots. The gauss is the equalizer here. The range is close enough or the same ( I don't remember off hand ). 8 shots is still pretty good. Could it use a second ton? Sure. So could the  Summoner prime, which has a much higher BV and less armor.

 On the table top I'd much rather have the Marauder. If you want close BV to the 5S, its the Nova H. The nova is still a bit higher but not much.

 So, even BV, I'll take the Marauder 5S over the Nova H any day.

 If you're talking in the story... We have a good logistics train. If I run out of ammo and start to take damage I'll just reload and head back out.

*edit* looking at the AS stats the mad is 36 points. 4/4/4 damage with OV 1. The Nova H is 40 points and 6/6/0 with ov 4. Giving the Mad pilot a skill 3 brings the points in line.

4 at range, with a 3 pilot will potentially take out the nova before it can hit the marauder. In this exampke i would still prefer the Marauder.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: JadedFalcon on 04 January 2016, 21:22:17
I'll admit that the MAD-5S is best as a team player in TW. Only time I've lost one was when I foolishly pushed it into jumping distance of an introtech Victor. I've used the mech a number of times in a lance with a Battlemaster 3S and an Archer 5S, which play the wall of steel while the Marauder hangs back. But if you're playing 1 on 1 deathmatches with optimized mechs, then it's going to come up short.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 January 2016, 21:58:48
Mechs warfare should be done in teams. It's a fire support Mech, just like all early marauders. If you have units getting close to your fire support you have problems.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 January 2016, 23:05:43
It's really rare to find an opponent who's willing to let a fire support mech sit on a ridge unmolested.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 04 January 2016, 23:51:24
Kill them before they get close. Basic tactic.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 January 2016, 00:32:15
Yeah, because that's always so easy to accomplish.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 January 2016, 02:35:07
You must not win many games
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 January 2016, 02:56:23
I win plenty.  But not by assuming that my opponent is going to do what I want them to.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: StCptMara on 05 January 2016, 09:50:53
I win plenty.  But not by assuming that my opponent is going to do what I want them to.

No..the trick is making your opponent do what you want him to. Fire support mechs work great in a company.
Why? Because then you can present your enemy with a threat right in his face, which he will focus on while
the fire support mechs pick the weak links apart..
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 January 2016, 10:20:18
Exactly.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Flieger on 05 January 2016, 19:00:08
Except it's primary intended opponents are Clan 'Mechs armed with longer-ranged, harder hitting weapons and typically piloted by superior MechWarriors. And added to that, it doesn't have enough ammo to keep sniping for that long, and it's secondary weapons don't really help either

As Hengist already said, the range of the ERPPC and the Gauss Rifle is the same for Clan and IS. Overall the IS versions are inferior, of course, but if that were a reason to disprize a Mech, the IS would not even need to bother in this time. I do not think there is any indication that the MAD-5S somehow disappointed the AFFC.
Also, please keep in mind, although the MAD-5S only arrived in 3051, the originally intended opponent was not any Clan but the Combine after it had gained access to the MAD-5D. Therefore the -9S is perhaps a better representation of how the LCAF designed a Marauder with the Clans in mind.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 January 2016, 00:26:20
The 5D and 5S have two totally different rolls.

The D is a mid range brawler. Higher armor, pluses etc. Oh wait! It has one of those fragile IS XL engines too. I don't hear complaining with the D and an XL...

The S has less armor but puts out more sustained firepower at range. It puts out more damage than the D, even up to mid range and closer. In close, within 3 hexes the S still puts out more damage, plus in an alpha it runs cooler.

 Put these two mechs together in a company and they totally compliment eachother. I think that's how the authors designed them to work. One long range and one mid.

 Just my opinion.

 
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: jklantern on 06 January 2016, 08:55:01
The 5D and 5S have two totally different rolls.

The D is a mid range brawler. Higher armor, pluses etc. Oh wait! It has one of those fragile IS XL engines too. I don't hear complaining with the D and an XL...

The S has less armor but puts out more sustained firepower at range. It puts out more damage than the D, even up to mid range and closer. In close, within 3 hexes the S still puts out more damage, plus in an alpha it runs cooler.

 Put these two mechs together in a company and they totally compliment eachother. I think that's how the authors designed them to work. One long range and one mid.

 Just my opinion.

Almost like the in-universe designers were part of some sort of...Federated Commonwealth or something... ;)

(NOTE:  I was too lazy to look up the intro date of the S, or if it was a Phoenix Design.  If it came after the Lyran Secession, feel free to mock me.)
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 January 2016, 11:25:35
5S came out in 51 I believe. I could be WAY off though. That's what Sarna says.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 06 January 2016, 13:54:20
5S came out in 51 I believe. I could be WAY off though. That's what Sarna says.

According to the MUL the -5D was 3047 and -5S 3051.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 January 2016, 16:19:25
Cool. Yea, the S was built because of the takeover of the plant that makes the D I guess.

 Hmm, nice Lyran Fedcom company... A lance of S, a lance of D and a lance of Banshee 5S's. Not a bad company for this time period.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 06 January 2016, 16:50:24
Considering now nice the new Marauder art looks, I'm completely down with the idea.  And with the MAD-5A/5B being the same guns with more armor...well, I can see how that would get workable for a whole company or battalion of MADs.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 January 2016, 18:03:51
What's the 5A and B?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 06 January 2016, 18:08:03
What's the 5A and B?
Marauder IIs, sorry
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 06 January 2016, 19:07:54
Oh, no worries. I just wasn't sure what you meant. Thanks :-D
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 January 2016, 12:37:07
Looks like we're almost done with this thread. We have less than 60 posts left to 1500.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 07 January 2016, 13:06:22
Looks like we're almost done with this thread. We have less than 60 posts left to 1500.

Thought of the day:

Does the Steiner fan thread see more traffic because there are more Steiner fans, or because the current storyline makes discussions about Steiner more interesting than other factions?
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Sharpnel on 07 January 2016, 13:10:55
It's the latter. The same thing happened when the Blood Spirits got wiped out.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 January 2016, 13:58:14
Actually, the CBS page sees a lot of traffic because there are a lot of us, we're friends and like to discuss things.

 This page gets a lot of traffic for the same reason.

 Anyway, I'm going to start a new thread.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 07 January 2016, 13:58:44
We need a good name for the new thread.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 January 2016, 14:06:12
You'll see  :))
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: BigDuke66 on 24 August 2017, 23:30:55
Continues here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50580.0

PS Please may a mod lock this thread.
Title: Re: Kampfgruppe Steiner II: Operation Eisenfaust
Post by: Weirdo on 25 August 2017, 08:14:58
Roger Roger!