Author Topic: Clan Protectorate  (Read 202160 times)

nova_dew

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1110 on: 29 October 2022, 03:50:44 »

I’m not sure how any of that works.
- The end of EA is the FWL declares war and starts the first moves to attack the Empire. Not exactly ready to join
- FWL is used to no HPG. Being denied that isn’t gonna stop them now. It would provide an advantage for the Empire on defense though.
- Speaking of. The Empire has 10 clusters and a Keshik to defend with and has had several of those mangled, including the Keshik. So unless the Foxes want to put their own asses on the line as shock troops for Alaric, who’s bending the FWL over the barrel?
- I don’t see Spirit Cats betraying the one group that’s treated them well in the last century because… ilClan? I dunno what the sales pitch is.

We also saw Alaric reject Rasalhague Dominion for not being 100% in favor of joining. It looks like he wants a big pure clan league What’s different that he would take the deal with FWL?

There’s always room for me to be wrong. I just don’t see how FWL goes from putting boot to Wolf Empire neck to joining Alaric’s faux league in a short time period.

Well we know from the opening fiction to EA that the Foxes are not so keen on Alaric and the Wolves heading the 3rd League, and are only playing along a) because profits and b) to protect the FWL from Alaric, it's the FWL it's not going to be a 100% turn around and bend over for Alaric vote and the Protectorate knows this, and Alaric is going to do to them what he did to the Dominion.
I think the Periphery is going to get a lot closer to Terra, at least from Alaric's perspective, take a pair of compasses measure out from Terra to the closest part of the Horses territories and draw a nice circle, I also think the Foxes are going to be actively sabotaging Alaric and the wolves, I wonder if the rogue production facilities mentioned in the 32**? blurbs from the old books, is Fox owned and run ark ships, with maybe Jinyi's banking ship and the missing Cats? TPTB seem to be creating a Pro-3rd league and Anti-3rd league faction from each older faction.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1111 on: 29 October 2022, 05:12:56 »
Well we know from the opening fiction to EA that the Foxes are not so keen on Alaric and the Wolves heading the 3rd League, and are only playing along a) because profits and b) to protect the FWL from Alaric, it's the FWL it's not going to be a 100% turn around and bend over for Alaric vote and the Protectorate knows this, and Alaric is going to do to them what he did to the Dominion.
I think the Periphery is going to get a lot closer to Terra, at least from Alaric's perspective, take a pair of compasses measure out from Terra to the closest part of the Horses territories and draw a nice circle, I also think the Foxes are going to be actively sabotaging Alaric and the wolves, I wonder if the rogue production facilities mentioned in the 32**? blurbs from the old books, is Fox owned and run ark ships, with maybe Jinyi's banking ship and the missing Cats? TPTB seem to be creating a Pro-3rd league and Anti-3rd league faction from each older faction.

Really every faction? I doubt any of the Houses would want to join a Clan led League anyway. At least the Capellans and Combine will more likely to try to rip trhough their forces. The Suns are probably watching from the sideline hoping that their two powerful enemies get distracted and run through the wringer. For the Bears and Ravens I might see that. The Foxes are already splintered into their roving Khanates but I don'T see them fight each other because that would eat into their profits. War might be good for business but it is also bad for business relations especially when you have customers around the entire IS. The Lyrans are busy trying to keep their nation alive and while they might see the benefits they could probbaly not contribute much and the Free Worlds League has declared war on the Wolves with the Dragoons leading the way. Alaric will have some mighty juggling to do to convince anyone to join. And a few Galaxies of troops isn't enough to take on the entire IS regardsless if you have HPG's or not. This is not the Terran Hegemony of old.

nova_dew

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1112 on: 29 October 2022, 07:56:31 »
Really every faction? I doubt any of the Houses would want to join a Clan led League anyway. At least the Capellans and Combine will more likely to try to rip trhough their forces. The Suns are probably watching from the sideline hoping that their two powerful enemies get distracted and run through the wringer. For the Bears and Ravens I might see that. The Foxes are already splintered into their roving Khanates but I don'T see them fight each other because that would eat into their profits. War might be good for business but it is also bad for business relations especially when you have customers around the entire IS. The Lyrans are busy trying to keep their nation alive and while they might see the benefits they could probbaly not contribute much and the Free Worlds League has declared war on the Wolves with the Dragoons leading the way. Alaric will have some mighty juggling to do to convince anyone to join. And a few Galaxies of troops isn't enough to take on the entire IS regardsless if you have HPG's or not. This is not the Terran Hegemony of old.

The Foxes have split, Spina is i think, is anti League, but not stupid and are pretty much Protectorate in all but name, others are out and about pretty much doing what they want and some are annoyed at Spina, civil war anyone?,

Caps are going to be split, well at least their alliance is, by Andorians(?) in their side and Magistrix behind, they might not have a choice but to join,
Dominion has split,
Ravens not sure yet,
Combine, Yori/Gunji-no-brains split is on the cards,
Lyrans need all the help they can get and the ones next to the Dominion already has Dominion troops on one planet, and Jinyi on their boarder.
Suns might split over "wtf has the prince been and what has he been doing, coming late and saying sorry isn't enough, you aint our prince now, bye-bye"

TPTB are making new splinter-sub-divergent-factions, that are going to be around a while, they never said indefinitely and making pro and anti 3rd league versions of each faction
a) stops the players taking out their frustrations on the boards or at the staff or other players,
b) gives players more options on what faction to pick, c) creates new ways to tell the same stories, because there's no new stories,
d) allows players with a faction to pick i) pro 3rd or ii) anti 3rd versions of their faction, without changing faction,

If true, TPTB have made pretty much the best choice and shows how well they know us, we can get somewhat protective over our chosen factions and the universe and verbal in how we think TPTB treat them, while it doesn't please everyone, it has the most chance of causing the least backlash (happy customers buy more, if they can) and allows options down the road, 3rd league getting popular or accepted, expand it, and run the era a bit longer, not popular speed up it's destruction and move on, new faction not working, work to kill it off and now they can kill of factions without leaving as many people wondering who to follow or if they should just leave, or completely messing with the universe.
It makes sense from the "we want to tell smaller stories and more of them" point of view, a small faction loses a world, it's a big thing, a large faction has too loose how many worlds?, a leader gets killed off, maybe a huge civil war for a large faction vs a smaller one with a big impact for the faction, but little impact on the whole universe, and from a "we want to keep making money" point of view, the same one product can now be sold to multiple people when it covers multiple factions, a Suns book now sells to 5 people not 2, just a suns fan, pro 3rd suns fan, anti 3rd suns fan and 3rd fan, buys everything fan, I suspect that's one of the reasons house books can be hit or miss, a lot for a little, nothing for a lot, doesn't make as much profit as a little for everyone ala TRO's.

but i could be wrong, chances are I am wrong, but it does make sense... at least with how my brain works, better working brains may yield differing results, brains sold as is with no warranty implied or otherwise given, side effect may include but are not limited to sapience
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Geg

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1113 on: 30 October 2022, 14:11:23 »
I'd certainly hope not, considering that Jessica's dead.

Errr...  Jessica's vision.   :P

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1114 on: 30 October 2022, 14:23:47 »
Really every faction?

It feels like it's going to be most Clan factions are going to be split.  We know the Horses feel like they missed an opportunity so they probably don't have a pro-ilClan faction.  But for the others.   

The Falcons between Stephanie and Jiyi.
The Wolves between Alaric and Othar ...probably.
The Jaguars between the Fidelis and the NeoJags.
The Protectorate between Julietta and Rikkard
The Bears around the vote.

The Sea Foxes we see are not pro-Alaric, but there are splintered enough division probably exist.   I would be surprised if we don't see a similar Raven division about what to do.

What would shock me is that if any of these divisions persisted to the point were they become formalized ala the Wolves and the Wolves in Exile.

Angrii

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1115 on: 30 October 2022, 23:23:29 »
We know the Horses feel like they missed an opportunity so they probably don't have a pro-ilClan faction.

Tamar Rising leaves some hints to the contrary in the 7th Rangers unit profile. They remember their roots as Abtakha from Clan Wolf and may be tempted to go AWOL to join the Ilclan (their new Khan even goes so far as to take their jump ships away from them). Of course, that's only one Cluster so there's no telling how pervasive that attitude might be.
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nova_dew

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1116 on: 31 October 2022, 03:29:59 »
It feels like it's going to be most Clan factions are going to be split.  We know the Horses feel like they missed an opportunity so they probably don't have a pro-ilClan faction.  But for the others.   

The Falcons between Stephanie and Jiyi.
The Wolves between Alaric and Othar ...probably.
The Jaguars between the Fidelis and the NeoJags.
The Protectorate between Julietta and Rikkard
The Bears around the vote.

The Sea Foxes we see are not pro-Alaric, but there are splintered enough division probably exist.   I would be surprised if we don't see a similar Raven division about what to do.

What would shock me is that if any of these divisions persisted to the point were they become formalized ala the Wolves and the Wolves in Exile.

It wont last forever, Alaric and the 3rd League is on Terra, that place eats factions for breakfast and BT for all it's changes presently it's still following the same theme and I don't see them changing it up too much, we're on The Star League story: III Revenge of the Kerenski's, at the moment, I'm waiting on FedCom Merger II: Messy Divorce Boogaloo.

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Church14

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1117 on: 06 November 2022, 08:33:03 »
Alaric is going to do to them what he did to the Dominion.



TPTB seem to be creating a Pro-3rd league and Anti-3rd league faction from each older faction.

How would Alaric do to the FWL what he did to the Dominion? I don’t follow this part at all. FWL is a great house that in the last fifteen years lost a huge chunk of their realm to the Empire. The only part of the house that’s remotely pro-ilclan is some of the Protectorate.

Also, there would not be a vote like in Dominion. FWL has already cast their vote. They declared war.



Like others said, I think you’re seeing clans split on support of ilclan. No great house will be, nor should they be. Alaric offers them nothing of value. “Join my league and we’ll destroy your culture and replace it with clan?” “Join and lose you’re sovereignty.?”

The tiny smidges of Alaric we’ve seen don’t make me think he intends to be first among equals as is needed to make the league work. It sounds like he intends for all to serve him and him alone. But, admittedly, we have seen very little of this part yet.

nova_dew

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1118 on: 06 November 2022, 08:48:11 »
How would Alaric do to the FWL what he did to the Dominion? I don’t follow this part at all. FWL is a great house that in the last fifteen years lost a huge chunk of their realm to the Empire. The only part of the house that’s remotely pro-ilclan is some of the Protectorate.

Also, there would not be a vote like in Dominion. FWL has already cast their vote. They declared war.

Like others said, I think you’re seeing clans split on support of ilclan. No great house will be, nor should they be. Alaric offers them nothing of value. “Join my league and we’ll destroy your culture and replace it with clan?” “Join and lose you’re sovereignty.?”

The tiny smidges of Alaric we’ve seen don’t make me think he intends to be first among equals as is needed to make the league work. It sounds like he intends for all to serve him and him alone. But, admittedly, we have seen very little of this part yet.

What he did to the dominion is all join or no one joins.
There was a vote, they voted for war, they just did it preemptively, just like you pointed out after you said that they wouldn't have a vote...
It was me, I pointed out the split  :P
What Alaric offers is not having a war against someone who holds Terra, what happened the last time someone, well everyone had a war with someone who held Terra? and this time Alaric has a plan beyond revenge, though he does have the odd hissy fit.
I agree whole heartedly on what Alaric wants.
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GuyIncognito

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1119 on: 06 November 2022, 09:41:15 »
what happened the last time someone, well everyone had a war with someone who held Terra?
That guy died in nuclear fire?

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1120 on: 08 November 2022, 14:56:46 »
How would Alaric do to the FWL what he did to the Dominion? I don’t follow this part at all. FWL is a great house that in the last fifteen years lost a huge chunk of their realm to the Empire. The only part of the house that’s remotely pro-ilclan is some of the Protectorate.

Technically most of what was taken by the Crusader Wolves was not from the League because the League did not exist at the time.  In fact, the Lyrans and Crusader Wolves could be said to be the catalyst of the League reforming . . . otherwise the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth would have opposed the reformation, defending Atreus and Marik more strongly than actually happened.
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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1121 on: 17 January 2023, 18:30:25 »
I really wish we had a novel or at least a short story about Clan Protectorate politics/government. That Rikkard Nova Cat is still unblooded after 15 years is just weird, meanwhile other Spirit Cat characters who have gotten name-dropped in Shrapnel issues have gotten bloodnames (Sariah Vozka in Issue 10 for one).

Is Rikkard running the Clan Protectorate as still one big galaxy command? Has he formed a Clan Council? Is he refusing to because he doesn't know if any other Nova Cats survive? That made a lot of sense prior to 3142, but after the Nova Cat genocide, Rikkard is smart enough to know the Spirit Cats are pretty much the last Nova Cats in existence. And given that they've gotten up to 6-8 clusters now, they probably have a ton of warriors chomping at the bit for bloodnames. Furthermore, how is governance shared between the Cats and Foxes? The Foxes provide the Marik MP in the Parliament, so do they run the external affairs, while the Spirit Cats run the domestic government? Do they share?

Having a novel detail the Spirit Cats in the Protectorate from settlement and attempted reconstruction of a traumatized people, dealing with the question of who are they really (Nova Cats? Spirit Cats? Something else entirely?), and the compromises they might have to make while trying to rebuild (The Clan Protectorate Guardian clusters are staffed with Inner Sphere Warriors officered by Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes, for example) would be utterly fascinating. Instead we just keep hearing about how they fight here and there.
Clan Protectorate

Geg

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1122 on: 20 January 2023, 20:43:44 »
I am wondering if we are going to hear something about Kisho in the DD book drop next week.

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1123 on: 20 January 2023, 22:28:30 »
I was reading over the Kara's Scorcher section of Shrapnel 10, before trying to roll my own version of it.   What I got to didn't really feel like I satisfied the spirit on the fluff.   Anyone else give this a try an get a result they were happy with?

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1124 on: 20 January 2023, 22:38:32 »
I am wondering if we are going to hear something about Kisho in the DD book drop next week.

The Protectorate could really use the genetic legacies he's carrying around, that would turn the Protectorate into something far greater than a Refugee state

On the discussion of split factions I think the reason give every faction a trial of its own to sort itself out

Every faction right now is distracted with its own goals it gives the ilClan time to rebuild on Terra ala the Reunification War and Amaris, the Succession Wars and ComStar

Not to quote anything in particular but all of this has happened before...
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Rncavenger

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1125 on: 21 January 2023, 01:52:17 »
I am wondering if we are going to hear something about Kisho in the DD book drop next week.

My prediction is we won't see anything about Nova Cats in DD. A maximum of one or two mentions in connection with the events of the rebellion or some tech.
« Last Edit: 21 January 2023, 01:54:20 by Rncavenger »

Geg

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1126 on: 31 January 2023, 14:03:33 »
My prediction is we won't see anything about Nova Cats in DD. A maximum of one or two mentions in connection with the events of the rebellion or some tech.

No Kisho, but the Bears are stopping off at Irece...  so...  Easter Egg?
« Last Edit: 31 January 2023, 15:02:19 by Geg »

Istal_Devalis

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1127 on: 31 January 2023, 14:14:41 »
No Kisho, but the bears and stopping off at Irece...  so...  Easter Egg?
Did they piss on the graves? Seems like that's their current mindset in regard to the Nova Cats the last 20 years or so.

Rncavenger

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1128 on: 31 January 2023, 16:13:50 »
No Kisho, but the Bears are stopping off at Irece...  so...  Easter Egg?


I assume that when the authors wrote DD, they did not think about any Nova Cats at all. It is unlikely that many of them even remembered who these planets belonged to before and that there was some kind of rebellion at all. In any case, in all the recent books I have this feeling.

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1129 on: 31 January 2023, 17:17:51 »
Irece is the home of a number of important Sea Fox and Draconis Combine industrial centers, on a direct line to Luthien. Of course it is worth a visit. Not everything is about rubbing the Cat's nose in it.

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1130 on: 31 January 2023, 18:30:17 »
Irece is the home of a number of important Sea Fox and Draconis Combine industrial centers, on a direct line to Luthien. Of course it is worth a visit. Not everything is about rubbing the Cat's nose in it.

Yeah the Cats traded heaps to them after the 2nd War... when the Bears rubbed their nose in the dirt  ;D (always a way for a Cat fan to find a dark cloud  :D joking... just)

Honestly I like it cut the Combine off at the knees Blitzkrieg across their space in that fancy Levi III... nukes you say??? That's breakfast
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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1131 on: 31 January 2023, 23:38:07 »
Did they piss on the graves? Seems like that's their current mindset in regard to the Nova Cats the last 20 years or so.

I mean... the MWDA story of the Nova Cats is of them having a vision of being destroyed and of the people who believed in the vision becoming Spirit Cats and going to Marik... So I feel like the Nova Cats are doing ok. they've got a small nation, better than being stuck on Irece.

But I'm a Sea Fox, so maybe I'm just more used to your faction changing its name whenever it's beneficial.
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Rncavenger

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1132 on: 01 February 2023, 01:33:19 »
I mean... the MWDA story of the Nova Cats is of them having a vision of being destroyed and of the people who believed in the vision becoming Spirit Cats and going to Marik... So I feel like the Nova Cats are doing ok. they've got a small nation, better than being stuck on Irece.

But I'm a Sea Fox, so maybe I'm just more used to your faction changing its name whenever it's beneficial.

I agree with you, that would be great. The problem is that we know less about the  Spirit/Nova cats in Clan Protectorate that arose about fifteen years ago than about mini factions that appeared in the "Tamar rising".   And I'm not talking about the activity description. Cluster X flew to planet Y and there, according to the cat tradition, most likely lost the fight it was in the "Empire Alone". I'm talking about the description of the internal structure of the faction itself. What they live by,  what they think, what they want, what goals. Spirit Cats are Nova Cats who have lived all their lives among spheroids. At the beginning in the republic, then in the FWL. Many of them served in the Republican troops. And they lived as equals. Not like overlords in other clans and not in reservations like Nova Cats in DC. Theoretically, their level of integration and understanding of the local population should be higher than that of any other clan factions.
The situation is even worse with the failed Nova Cat rebellion in DC. We just know practically nothing about it. But a lot has already been written about this, I will not repeat it.
« Last Edit: 01 February 2023, 01:56:26 by Rncavenger »

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1133 on: 01 February 2023, 14:13:02 »
what bloodnames do they have access too?   have they started a breeding program?  do we know what the protecorate can produce battle armor wise?
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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1134 on: 01 February 2023, 15:05:34 »
what bloodnames do they have access too?   

We don't, but they have clan medicine, so nothing is stopping them from creating new Bloodnames, and Bloodhouses like other IS Clans have done (nuFalcons, Bears, WiE).

have they started a breeding program? 

There is what looked like a sibco running around on Merik

do we know what the protecorate can produce battle armor wise?

These are on their RAT.   I assume also put anything manufactured by the Sea Foxes on in the FWL on the table.
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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1135 on: 01 February 2023, 19:00:14 »
They really need a minute to catch their breath and a Khan before they can start breeding programs and Trials of Founding, its a very political very (new Clan) thing to do in starting your own breeding program and new Bloodnames

The Nova Cats only used names they held exclusively to try and ward off trouble with the other Clans (worked well) Kara (Fletcher i think) is a horse and she's gained a name, how this has come about could be a story on its own
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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1136 on: 01 February 2023, 19:08:37 »
Kara (Fletcher i think) is a horse and she's gained a name, how this has come about could be a story on its own

Kara Fletcher was already Bloodnamed before the Spirit Cats got her.
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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1137 on: 01 February 2023, 21:14:43 »
Given that the Spirit Cats are descended from the three best Galaxies of Nova Cat Warriors, I'm willing to bet they ended up with a lot of bloodnames compared to the remaining Nova Cats in the Combine. Might have more blood heritages than we think.
Clan Protectorate

Rncavenger

  • Master Sergeant
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  • Posts: 340
Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1138 on: 02 February 2023, 03:01:08 »
At the moment we know about 4+1 holders of Blood Names among Spirit/Nova Cats in the Clan Protectorate.  Hardo, Nostra, Vozka and Bavros. Plus Kara Fletcher, but she's originally from Hell Horses.
 
« Last Edit: 02 February 2023, 03:42:43 by Rncavenger »

Geg

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
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  • Posts: 1271
    • Jade Corsair
Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1139 on: 02 February 2023, 09:58:38 »
Can someone remind me what we know about the O5P (Order of the Five Pillars) in the Dark Age/ilClan Era.

(and ideally, which book we know it from).