Clan Protectorate

[Kitsune413]

You are good Kamose. You arent attacking writers or anything. Its ok to be upset.

I just finished heretics faith. It didnt really give me the insight that I was looking for. Kisho was a wreck. I was really hoping for some elaboration on the visions kisho and kev had. That novel just ended and they didnt pick up the threads. Except for rikkard in some later novels.

One thing that did strike me about the book is the way the nova cats act. They are very kuritan. Bow to show respect. Use kuritan honorifics and let themselves be bullied.

I dont think clan nova cat survived the second ghost bear war. Whatever is left on those reservations isnt the same. Pretty sad to read. Hopefully an author will pick up those threads on battlecorps. It would be amazing to see the drama.

I wish I could say they died like a clan. Maybe it was seeing their indoctrination to combine culture with the historical analogue revolution. But I think they were a greater casualty to the draconis combine than they know. Ulimately corrupted before being slain.

I think its ironic that the spirit cats looked to the nova cats and doubted themselves. Their actions after grey monday are very much reflective of the clan that joined the star league.

[Kamose]

Thanks, Kitsune.  I think it is always OK to disagree and say so, but one should still be civil and respectful.  I am sorry you were disappointed with Heretic's Faith; maybe now you see why I'm not as much of a Kisho fan as a lot of people around here are.  And I think you put into words exactly what I've been feeling all along but unable to express - the Spirit Cats are more like the Nova Cats that joined the 2nd Star League, NOT like those of the original Clan of Kerensky - and it was that second group, which HAD the courage to truly follow Kerensky's ideas and rejoin the Inner Sphere, that I was such a big fan of.  Their end, such as it was, was simply the final act of a mistake that began when they were not allowed to join as EQUALS.  With all the strength they had, especially their fleet, Kurita should have given them the Irece Prefecture and treated them as an EQUAL NATION - just like the did with the Free Rasalhague Speedbump Republic.  I never COULD get why they didn't.  Victor could (and, in my opinion, should) have forced such an option on Teddy the K.  After all, he now had the full control of ComStar's (and, by default, the Star League's) military.  After all the blood they spilled in Operation Bulldog, the Kuritas certainly wouldn't be in a position to argue.  Furthermore, they should have given ALL the Clan Smoke Jaguar salvage to the only Star League Clan, who could properly maintain it and field it.  Destroy TWO Fredasa corvettes just because the Kuritas didn't have the infrastructure?  Uh, what about their "allies", the Nova Cats... who actually DEPLOYED said design?  And don't tell me the Cats couldn't do it.  If they could magically repair two of the ships they "lost" in the ToP for the Rasalhague, as WELL as repairing a Tatsumaki that was supposedly destroyed in Bulldog, they had the ability & know how.  Even after the Jihad, they had enough troops (had they stayed together & not joined the Republic) to "force" the acceptance of them as a new state.  Overall, I just think this whole thing was badly conceived, written, and executed.  But now I've come full circle, so I'll stop.  Thanks for sharing, as always.
Regards,
Kamose

[Kitsune413]

Ironically the clan protectorate is treated as an equal nation. But kurita letting someone else be sovereign? Its not how the company store faction does things. Kurita wouldnt have surrendered rasalhague if they could have helped it.

[Kamose]

Ironically the clan protectorate is treated as an equal nation. But kurita letting someone else be sovereign? Its not how the company store faction does things. Kurita wouldnt have surrendered rasalhague if they could have helped it.

Well, that is one reason I'm coming around to being OK with the Spirit Cats and their Sea Fox partners in the Clan Protectorate.  And you are right - it isn't how things are done by Kurita; I just think that the precedent had been set with the Rasalhague joke state and that it should have been forced on them.  Everybody goes on about how things don't change in this universe - that would sure be an example of a strong one!  But all of this is highly biased, of course, and as a Cat fan I can hardly call for this without acknowledging that it would offend a Kurita fan (I assume there are some around here, quiaff?  Although I will say I honestly don't get it).
Thanks,
Kamose

[Kitsune413]

Haha. Kurita fans dont seem very vocal other than tai dai cultist. But I seriously doubt they are thin skinned. Its not like hikagemaru's "are capellans evil?" Ponderings. They know what they are getting into.

Im really excited about getting another spirit cat buddy and semi terrified the ilclan will order the sea foxes to blow up the spirit cats. Its not an intelligent thought or a real concern (though maybe I should watch my mouth on a board with herb) and more of a worst case scenario terror.

Also, spirit cats in stalker IIs would be scary.

[Kamose]

Haha. Kurita fans dont seem very vocal other than tai dai cultist. But I seriously doubt they are thin skinned. Its not like hikagemaru's "are capellans evil?" Ponderings. They know what they are getting into.

Im really excited about getting another spirit cat buddy and semi terrified the ilclan will order the sea foxes to blow up the spirit cats. Its not an intelligent thought or a real concern (though maybe I should watch my mouth on a board with herb) and more of a worst case scenario terror.

Also, spirit cats in stalker IIs would be scary.

Yeah, in truth, most all of them I've met are great folks.  I started a House Kurita - Why? thread to get some idea of the appeal.  And I would say you could call me a Spirit Cat buddy - and no hard feelings if things work out that the Sea Foxes have to flush us.  At least THAT would be an honest, and honorable, ending.  I think that's the hardest thing about losing the Cats for me.  As far as Herbert - he seems to have dialed it back quite a bit.  I had a very nice exchange with him a couple of days ago about irrelevant points that dated to before he was here.  Straight up professional, and answered everything.  Very nice, and hat's off to him.  And - Stalker II's?!?  I may have to get TRO:3145 Marik after all!
Thanks,
Kamose

[Kitsune413]

Haha. I was kidding. I meant the herb thing in the way a player worries about his game master hearing an idea for an evil plot. The setting is obviously a labor of loe and I love what they are doing with the place.

Now me and you can worry about the republic together!  ;D

I like the mercs tro the best because of the sea fox tech. But the fwl has another gorgeous set of battle armor. The leonidas. Two amazing looking fighters and some good looking mechs.

Of course with the regulans and anduriens not being part of the league and some of the equipment coming from their states it can be a bit confusing. Dont have to look had for enemies in the league right now.

[Kamose]

Haha. I was kidding. I meant the herb thing in the way a player worries about his game master hearing an idea for an evil plot. The setting is obviously a labor of loe and I love what they are doing with the place.

Now me and you can worry about the republic together!  ;D

I like the mercs tro the best because of the sea fox tech. But the fwl has another gorgeous set of battle armor. The leonidas. Two amazing looking fighters and some good looking mechs.

Of course with the regulans and anduriens not being part of the league and some of the equipment coming from their states it can be a bit confusing. Dont have to look had for enemies in the league right now.

Hmm... when I heard it had no Spirit Cat stuff in it, I didn't think it worth it (after seeing Liao & Davion).  Looks like I'll have to reevaluate that.  And, we can stand side by side against the Republic!  Assuming Vlad Alaric doesn't get them first!
Kamose

[Captain of C-21]

Given that the Wolf Empire has been launching trials against the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate, ergo respecting the Clan system of combat, I do not think Clan Wolf sees them as abjured/dezgra, the way the Ghost Bears viewed the Nova Cats following the abjuration.

[WONC]

You are good Kamose. You arent attacking writers or anything. Its ok to be upset.

I just finished heretics faith. It didnt really give me the insight that I was looking for. Kisho was a wreck. I was really hoping for some elaboration on the visions kisho and kev had. That novel just ended and they didnt pick up the threads. Except for rikkard in some later novels.

One thing that did strike me about the book is the way the nova cats act. They are very kuritan. Bow to show respect. Use kuritan honorifics and let themselves be bullied.

I dont think clan nova cat survived the second ghost bear war. Whatever is left on those reservations isnt the same. Pretty sad to read. Hopefully an author will pick up those threads on battlecorps. It would be amazing to see the drama.

I wish I could say they died like a clan. Maybe it was seeing their indoctrination to combine culture with the historical analogue revolution. But I think they were a greater casualty to the draconis combine than they know. Ulimately corrupted before being slain.

I think its ironic that the spirit cats looked to the nova cats and doubted themselves. Their actions after grey monday are very much reflective of the clan that joined the star league.

Hmm, yeah, it has no relevance to the discussion at large, but you've hit upon one of the reasons I still consider myself one of the good old Crusader Nova Cats at heart. You know, the ones who handed the ComGuards their heads, with a double portion of pain on the side? Back then, if the Nova Cats lost, we did it in style!

Given that the Wolf Empire has been launching trials against the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate, ergo respecting the Clan system of combat, I do not think Clan Wolf sees them as abjured/dezgra, the way the Ghost Bears viewed the Nova Cats following the abjuration.

I wonder how much of that has to do with their connections to the Sea Foxes and the FWL? The Bears got away with it because of the tensions the Cats had with the Dracs throughout that whole mess. I suspect the Wolves are smart enough to not royally piss off both a Successor State as well as a member of the Co6. They're audacious, but they're not Malivina, either.

[Dragon Cat]

Hmm, yeah, it has no relevance to the discussion at large, but you've hit upon one of the reasons I still consider myself one of the good old Crusader Nova Cats at heart. You know, the ones who handed the ComGuards their heads, with a double portion of pain on the side? Back then, if the Nova Cats lost, we did it in style!

+1 which is why ill be keeping my Classic OmniMech and insignia

[WONC]

+1 which is why ill be keeping my Classic OmniMech and insignia

Seyla, trothkin! Seyla.

[Kamose]

Given that the Wolf Empire has been launching trials against the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate, ergo respecting the Clan system of combat, I do not think Clan Wolf sees them as abjured/dezgra, the way the Ghost Bears viewed the Nova Cats following the abjuration.

Hmm...did not know that, C-21.  I really appreciate you pointing that out.  Guess it mat be worth finishing that dreaded ER:3145 after all.
Thanks,
Kamose

[Kamose]

+1 which is why ill be keeping my Classic OmniMech and insignia

Make that a +2, and I'm keeping my Sphinx!  And my Nova Cat omni!
Kamose

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Haha. Kurita fans dont seem very vocal other than tai dai cultist. But I seriously doubt they are thin skinned. Its not like hikagemaru's "are capellans evil?" Ponderings. They know what they are getting into.

If you say my name three times into the mirror in a darkened room I leap out and attack you.

But for the Cats living in the Combine.. yeah there were really ultimately only two outcomes.  Become a sub-faction of the Combine in a way like the Azami.. or cease living in the Combine.

Both sides were too proud to bend, and it all ended in tears.

[Peacemaker]

I dare say the Cats were practically on the same level as the Azami during the Dark Age. Their real downfall was that they tried to be kingmakers (Coordinatormaker?) in the world of House Kurita dynastic politics. I can't imagine a more dangerous game to play.

[Dreyf]

Given that the Wolf Empire has been launching trials against the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate, ergo respecting the Clan system of combat, I do not think Clan Wolf sees them as abjured/dezgra, the way the Ghost Bears viewed the Nova Cats following the abjuration.

It could also have to do with the Sea Fox presence in the Protectorate.  The Wolves were relying heavily on the foxes for material during and after the creation of the Empire so they may not want to make their supplier too mad.

[Captain of C-21]

It could also have to do with the Sea Fox presence in the Protectorate.  The Wolves were relying heavily on the foxes for material during and after the creation of the Empire so they may not want to make their supplier too mad.

Could be that, although when the Wolves speak of the Clan Protectorate, they speak of the Spirit Cats as being in charge (Alaric Ward, Bonfire of Worlds).  It was written into the Wolf-Marik Treaty that they would be allowed to fight trials against the Clan Protectorate, so it might also be a way around the treaty to keep blooding for the Terran invasion.

[glitterboy2098]

And why should any sane HW clanner want to invade again, seeing how it all ends in corrupted/poisoned/insane clans?

Because whats the point of keeping the HW clans around and developing their story if there isn't going to be a second invasion?  ;)
Wars of Reaving mentions the possibility and the preparations required for such an undertaking a few times.

i figure the Homeworlders won't be "invading".. they'll be purging. attempting to blast the Sphere to rubble in order to rebuild it into an ideal clan realm. after all, they'd already decided the IS and IS clans didn't warrant zell, and would be subject to no holds barred warfare from the get go.. not much of a leap to them deciding that a "clean slate' is the only way.

[WONC]

Because whats the point of keeping the HW clans around and developing their story if there isn't going to be a second invasion?  ;)
Wars of Reaving mentions the possibility and the preparations required for such an undertaking a few times.

i figure the Homeworlders won't be "invading".. they'll be purging. attempting to blast the Sphere to rubble in order to rebuild it into an ideal clan realm. after all, they'd already decided the IS and IS clans didn't warrant zell, and would be subject to no holds barred warfare from the get go.. not much of a leap to them deciding that a "clean slate' is the only way.

I agree. The way I see it, either the Home Clans will invade bent on purging the entire Sphere, or they'll decide to create their own "ideal" hegemony out of the various Deep Periphery states around them that ultimately will mirror the Inner Sphere in a Clan format. Honestly, the latter one sounds like the more interesting option, as a new invasion will probably spell the end of the Clans as functioning entities altogether (Clan tech & training + unfettered warfare = glass orbs where planets used to be).

[Dragon Cat]

I don't actually expect to ever hear from the Homeworlds Clans again

Long term I don't see he remaining a Clans lasting either overall ilClan is goin to be the Clan faction that encompasses all of them that sits with the long term 3250 idea of less factions

If you think 1 Clan, 5 Succession States and maybe a Republic Remnant only 7 factions to concentrate and develop simpler easier to sell that how i see it going maybe I'm wrong but I saw the Nova Cat fall as the first drop of the flood

[Peacemaker]

I don't actually expect to ever hear from the Homeworlds Clans again

I think we will; the writers won't be able to completely abandon such a potent potential plot (try saying that ten times fast). But when we do, I expect them to be a much more monolithic, singular entity than the current four + Scorpions.

If you think 1 Clan, 5 Succession States and maybe a Republic Remnant only 7 factions to concentrate and develop simpler easier to sell that how i see it going maybe I'm wrong but I saw the Nova Cat fall as the first drop of the flood

First drop? What about all the Clans that died during the Wars of Reaving? I think we might see one or maybe two more Clans get killed off, but that's it.

[Dragon Cat]

I see Reaving as the end of the Homeworlds Clans their final huzzah now they are stuck on half the number of worlds they had which were already fluffed as resource poor in 3050.  I think the IS has Zero to worry about them

First drop in the IS sorry should have been clearer as above Reaving was the Homeworlds story.

They way I have read into comments I've seen I see the ilClan being declared after Terras fall.  The ilClan (more than likely Wolves) stating its dominance first targeting the Jade Falcons, Hell's Horses, possibly Clan Protectorate and Exiled Wolves absorbing them all into the ilClan.  The Sea Fox and Bears probably last due to distance and size of those Clan/their territory

You then have the Clan faction - ilClan which appeases the Clan fans.  You like Bears there's one here, a Falcon we have them to...

The Succession States survival is guaranteed by fact that they started the game with them.  Rasalhague/St Ives fell but the Capellans and FWL, Lyrans still stand despite there losses FWL wasnt even unified following Jihad but still mentioned in passing.

Then you may get Republic Remnant which keeps the fans won by the DA interested

Overall it's an easier way to develop a future especially if there's a time jump

I'm speculating massively here and could be completely wrong but it's a train of thought I'm sure has been considered...

[Kitsune413]

So I've been catching up on the Dark Age novels in what amounts to, "The Order that helps me GM the best."

I finished Heretic's Faith and it didn't do much for me. But, I've just started 'Target of Opportunity' and Kev Rosse's introduction in that book has turned me from "Extremely positive about the Spirit cats" to "Even more extremely positive about the Spirit Cats"

[Kamose]

Hmm, yeah, it has no relevance to the discussion at large, but you've hit upon one of the reasons I still consider myself one of the good old Crusader Nova Cats at heart. You know, the ones who handed the ComGuards their heads, with a double portion of pain on the side? Back then, if the Nova Cats lost, we did it in style!

Gotta agree with you, WONC.  This is what made me a fan of the Nova Cats from the start!
Regards,
Kamose

[Kitsune413]

Pyyric defeats are one of my favorite things in the world. Just because I have to lose doesnt mean you get to win.

[Kamose]

Pyyric defeats are one of my favorite things in the world. Just because I have to lose doesnt mean you get to win.

Great point, Kitsune.  The more I look at the Spirit Cats as the successors to the Nova Cats, the more I am looking to seeing how the Clan Protectorate turns out.  Even if the Cats die in the end, the Spirit Cats and the Sea Foxes will make it a stand to remember.
Kamose

[Kitsune413]

The spirit cats are in a good place right now. You cant attack them without taking on the sea foxes and free worlds league. If diamond shark actions during the wars of reaving are any indication thats not much fun. Clan Sea Fox likes zellbrigen when its working in our favor. We also like aerospace support.

[Captain of C-21]

So I've been catching up on the Dark Age novels in what amounts to, "The Order that helps me GM the best."

I finished Heretic's Faith and it didn't do much for me. But, I've just started 'Target of Opportunity' and Kev Rosse's introduction in that book has turned me from "Extremely positive about the Spirit cats" to "Even more extremely positive about the Spirit Cats"

Target of Opportunity, Pandora's Gambit, and To Ride the Chimera, alongside Heretic's Faith are all where you'll get to read about the Dark Age Spirit Cats.  Also, if you use the Wayback Machine, you can always go to Wizkids and read the old game campaigns, Spirit Cats had plenty of those and had quite a few short fiction stories.

[Kitsune413]

Also, if you use the Wayback Machine, you can always go to Wizkids and read the old game campaigns, Spirit Cats had plenty of those and had quite a few short fiction stories.

Wayback machine?