Clan Protectorate

[Doy]

guys i made today some colored Version of Clan Potectorate Insignias in my Insignia Topic : http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38510.msg894815#msg894815


I have a question: Is the Clan Potectorate a fusion of Clan Spirit Cats and clan Sea Fox or an absorbtion or what ?
....or work them as mercenary for House Marik ?

[Jaim Magnus]

The Clan Protectorate is a cooperative made up of Spirit Cats, Sea Foxes and locals, with the Spirit Cats set up as the dominant defenders.  It is NOT an absorption, nor are they mercenaries.  They are a semi-independent faction within the greater FWL charged with defence of a specific region.

At least, that's my read on it.

[Doy]

Who have the main order ?

[Jaim Magnus]

Spirit Cats, under Galaxy Commander Rikkard Nova Cat (that's right, no bloodname).  Each world still sends an MP to the FWL parliament.

[Doy]

@Jaim

And is Rikkard Nova Cat main order for the Clan Sea Fox Khanate too ? O_O

3138–3139
 Jessica Marik forges an alliance with Clan Sea Fox and invades Atreus.
 Jessica Marik is installed as Captain-General of a reborn Free Worlds League.

I understand it right the Diamond Sharks / Sea Fox stationed there only with 1 Khanat, and not with all Galaxys right ?

@Topic fists post:

 - Clan Burrock is reborn in the  Wars of Reavings by the Rebell Society
 - Clan Smoke Jaguar have still survivors in Bandit Caste
 - Clan Wolverine have sure survivors ;)

... also why not the Blood Spirits or the Vipers ?
But a reuse of them Blood Lines, i dont think so.
The most I.S. Clans dont like the Vipers and the Spirits.

[GhostCat]

@Jaim

And is Rikkard Nova Cat main order for the Clan Sea Fox Khanate too ? O_O

I understand it right the Diamond Sharks / Sea Fox are there only with 1 Khanat not with all galaxys right ?

Sea Fox and Spirit Cats are and remain two separate Clans.  Neither is the Boss of the other but they have what you'd call a working alliance.  Cats do most of the fighting, and the Foxes handle the logistics.  Both are really fragments of their former Clans and need a safety zone to restore and rebuild in.

GC

[roosterboy]

Both are really fragments of their former Clans and need a safety zone to restore and rebuild in.

That description doesn't really apply to the Sea Fox part of the Protectorate. They are a whole and vital Aimag, not a fragment that needs to restore and rebuild.

[Kitsune413]

In the era report the roleplaying rules section singles out delta aimag, but mentions all of spina khanate getting a trade advantage with Marik governments.

Also, Petr Kalasa is the ovkhan of Spina Khanate, considering that he and Rikkard are besties that would most likely put the six aimags of Spina behind the protectorate.

[roosterboy]

Delta is the only Aimag directly involved in running the Protectorate.

Either way, though, they aren't a fragment that needs to restore and rebuild.

[Doy]

Sea Fox and Spirit Cats are and remain two separate Clans.  Neither is the Boss of the other but they have what you'd call a working alliance.  Cats do most of the fighting, and the Foxes handle the logistics.  Both are really fragments of their former Clans and need a safety zone to restore and rebuild in.

You forgotten:

In October 3136, Delta Aimag was contacted by Spirit Cats Expedition commander, Star Colonel Rikkard from transport to Marik-Stewart Commonwealth world of Marik. Delta's command ship, Voidswimmer maintained contact with the Spirit Cats expedition to claim the world as save haven for the sub-Clan.

In April 3137, Rikkard contacted Delta Aimag's commander ovKhan Petr Kalasa and cuts deal to share the planet between both Clans. Delta deploys military forces to secure the planet.
Spina Khanate helped the Spirit Cats take control of the Marik system. [ Era Report: 3145, p. 66]

Later the Spirit Cats offered the use of Marik as a trading world, and the Spina Khanate accepted.
Making way for Marik to become a new-colony for the Sea Foxes.
Reconstruction is done with efforts both Delta personnel and Spirit Cat enclave.
This led to the creation of the Clan Protectorate. [Era Report: 3145, p. 67]

3138  Captain-General Jessica Marik of Oriente Protektorat forges an alliance with Clan Sea Fox  and invades Atreus.
Jessica Marik is installed as Captain-General of a reborn Free Worlds League.
However, Lady Julietta offer more honorable solution of feeling like being used as mercenaries.
Under direction Lady Julietta, Delta Aimag and the Spirit Cats help form a new political nation known as Clan Protectorate. This created new trade markets which Delta would be handling Clan Protectorate member's worlds economic output.

3139 Jessica Marik become with help from Clan Protectorate Captain-General of the new FWL.
 - Protectorate Coalition
 - Covenant Worlds
 - Clan Protectorate
 - Oriente Protectorate
 - Rim Commonalty
 - Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey


Some Questions from me:
What is a Khanat ?
What is an Aimag ?
What relation have this Aimag and Khanate with the Galaxys from Warden Clans book ?

...i am a little confused over this and this ovKhans !?!

[Øystein]

Khanate = Galaxy
Aimag = Cluster

In rough terms.

Øystein

[WeaponX]

Some Questions from me:
What is a Khanat ?
What is an Aimag ?
What relation have this Aimag and Khanate with the Galaxys from Warden Clans book ?

...i am a little confused over this and this ovKhans !?!

A Khanate is a Galaxy+ sized organization led by a saKhan (the Sea Foxes have 4 saKhans and 1 Khan, each leading a seperate Khanate), Khanates are broken down into Aimags led by an ovKhan (could be as much as you want, though generally there are around 4-5 ovKhans a Khanate).  Aimags can have Star Colonels and below, though now that I think about it, if Khanates equates to Galaxies, then Aimags should equate to "Super Clusters" if some of them are big enough to have Star Colonels, since Star Colonels are supposed to command Clusters etc.

[Kitsune413]

Delta is the only Aimag directly involved in running the Protectorate.

Either way, though, they aren't a fragment that needs to restore and rebuild.

Is there a seperation between the spirit cats and the protectorate? Are they two distinct organizations or are the spirit cats formally considered the clan protectorate?

Omicron Cluster was founded by Sea Fox personnel  after a trial. Did these foxes secede, or are they technically Sea Foxes serving in the protectorate?

[roosterboy]

Is there a seperation between the spirit cats and the protectorate? Are they two distinct organizations or are the spirit cats formally considered the clan protectorate?

The Spirit Cats and the Clan Protectorate are not the same thing, no. They own Marik outright (or jointly with Spina Delta) and extend their protection to the other worlds. As Julietta described a protectorate to them: "a form of governance in which a stronger world protects others. True, they control the protected world's dealings with other planets, but the world itself is autonomous." (To Ride the Chimera, p172)

Omicron Cluster was founded by Sea Fox personnel  after a trial. Did these foxes secede, or are they technically Sea Foxes serving in the protectorate?

The Sea Foxes have shown that they allow external affiliations without breaking the bonds of Clanship. For instance, Antoinette Labov served in the RAF before taking up service in one of the Aimags. Omicron serves the defense of the Protectorate but they are still part of the Clan.

[snewsom2997]

The Spirit Cats and the Clan Protectorate are not the same thing, no. They own Marik outright (or jointly with Spina Delta) and extend their protection to the other worlds. As Julietta described a protectorate to them: "a form of governance in which a stronger world protects others. True, they control the protected world's dealings with other planets, but the world itself is autonomous." (To Ride the Chimera, p172)

The Sea Foxes have shown that they allow external affiliations without breaking the bonds of Clanship. For instance, Antoinette Labov served in the RAF before taking up service in one of the Aimags. Omicron serves the defense of the Protectorate but they are still part of the Clan.

So are Spirit Cats and Spina Delta turning into the Dark Age version of the AMC?

[Kitsune413]

The Wolf Empire is pretty disinterested right now but it could be said that the spirit cats and sea foxes are holding them at bay.

But its not quite the political trap it was in the lyran commonwealth.

The free worlds league is a league of small nation states working together. Very similar to the holy roman empire.

So what the clan protectorate has done is taken over the old Marik stewart Commonwealth and replaced it with another sub state.

So they receive votes in free worlds league parliament. They are another free worlds league nation state now.

Here is hoping that it continues. :)

[Captain of C-21]

Yeah, so here's how the Protectorate works.

You have 7 planets within the substate of the Clan Protectorate.  You also have three Clans.

The Spirit Cats (and Nova Cats I would assume) own Marik outright.  They probably get to choose who to send to Parliament as Marik's MP.  The Sea Foxes have depots and supplies on Marik, and Delta Aimag is located there.

The other six planets in the Clan Protectorate manage their own affairs, but in exchange for the Spirit Cats/Delta Aimag protecting them from external enemies, they give the Sea Foxes monopolies on hocking their goods in the rest of the Inner Sphere.  They don't have to provide their own military as the Spirit Cats/Sea Foxes manage that stuff for them.  Citizens from all 7 planets though can be part of the Clan Protectorate military through the Protectorate Clusters.

Clan Spirit Cat and Nova Cat manage their own affairs separate from all the other planet's governance.  Sea Fox Spina Khanate does their own thing.  They really come together to protect all the member states of the Clan Protectorate, otherwise it's do as you will.

Now the interesting question is how do the Spirit Cats and Nova Cats manage their affairs.  There are more Spirit Cats than Nova Cats in the Protectorate; it's been 8 years since Rikkard and his Clusters took Marik.  By now they must have started to reform a Clan Council, started clan governance again, tried to get the scientist caste to set up breeding programs.  The Nova Cats only consist of 45 mechwarriors (well, non-mech forces are unmentioned of course in the FM3145, so there will probably be more Elementals, tankers, aerospace, etc.) and civilians who fled the Republic with them.  Are the Nova Cats in the Spirit Cats Clan Council?  Or are they trying to maintain their own separate council from the Spirit Cat "cultists"?

[Doy]

The Sea Fox are part of the Council of Six and they are ally with Oriente Protectorat and Clan Spirit Cats

The Clan Spirtis Cats have cut all relations with the Republic of Sphere.

28.04.3137 Rikkard Nova Cat from Clan Spirit Cats contacted Clan Sea Fox ovKhan Petr Kalasa for military assistance in securing Marik. In exchange, the world would become a co-occupied world and Clan Sea Fox warehouse world.

Oriente Protectorate's Captain-General Jessica Marik sent a request to Marik on April 28th, 3138.
The request was a petition for the Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes  to assist in garrisoning nearby worlds.
Lady Julietta whom has become Political Aide to Clan enclave, suggested they see it in a different light.
She instructed them on the concept of what a Protectorate is. 
She suggests, taking up the request, but handling it differently.
Inviting the worlds they have been asked to garrison to join them as part of a new Protectorate,
which becomes known as the Clan Protectorate.

When the Protectorate help form the new Free Worlds League they dont need any Council they have own Voices inside the League.

But i wonders where you read some Clan Nova Cat Members go inside the Protectorate?
So mutch i know the Nova Cats are anihilated by House Kurita, or i'm wrong ?

[Baron RedSkull]

You have 7 planets within the substate of the Clan Protectorate.  You also have three Clans.

The Spirit Cats (and Nova Cats I would assume) own Marik outright.  They probably get to choose who to send to Parliament as Marik's MP.  The Sea Foxes have depots and supplies on Marik, and Delta Aimag is located there.

Not sure where you're getting 3 clans from. Delta Aimag is part of Spina Khanate which is part of Clan Sea Fox.

The Spirit Cats are a splinter faction of Clan Nova Cat.

Clan Nova Cat was destroyed by the Draconis Combine.

There are only 2 clans in the Clan Protectorate although some argue the Spirit Cats aren't a true clan.

[Klat]

It's probably worth mentioning that the Nova Cat Provisional Cluster is composed of Republic refugees from Nova Cat enclaves.

[Molossian Dog IIC]

Not sure where you're getting 3 clans from. Delta Aimag is part of Spina Khanate which is part of Clan Sea Fox.

The Spirit Cats are a splinter faction of Clan Nova Cat.

Clan Nova Cat was destroyed by the Draconis Combine.

There are only 2 clans in the Clan Protectorate although some argue the Spirit Cats aren't a true clan.

Actually, as far as the rest of the Inner Sphere is concerned, there is only one Clan in the Protectorate. Clan Sharkfox. The rest is too dependent on them to count.

[Ratwedge]

Actually, as far as the rest of the Inner Sphere is concerned, there is only one Clan in the Protectorate. Clan Sharkfox. The rest is too dependent on them to count.

Curiously, where does it state this in FM: 3145? Sounds interesting.

[Captain of C-21]

But i wonders where you read some Clan Nova Cat Members go inside the Protectorate?
So mutch i know the Nova Cats are anihilated by House Kurita, or i'm wrong ?

EM3145 and more important FM3145, where it mentions ROTS refugees of Nova Cat origin fleeing to the Protectorate.  Enough in fact to make up 3 trinaries of mechwarriors, and of course the hundreds or thousands of lower castemembers who accompanied them.

Actually, as far as the rest of the Inner Sphere is concerned, there is only one Clan in the Protectorate. Clan Sharkfox. The rest is too dependent on them to count.

Incorrect.  Even Clan Wolf recognizes the Spirit Cats as the top Clan in the Protectorate, as in Bonfire of Worlds when Alaric Wolf mentions that attacking through that area will bring them into fierce contact with the Spirit Cats, not the Sea Foxes.

The Spirit Cats outright own Marik, and they're in charge there.  The Spirit Cats are not really dependent on anyone.  And given that they are contributing to the bulk of the Protectorate Touman, I would say if anything the other two Clans are more independent on them for holding the Protectorate together.  Ultimately though it's a partnership between the Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes.

There are only 2 clans in the Clan Protectorate although some argue the Spirit Cats aren't a true clan.

Some might, although most Spirit Cat characters seem to be pretty specific on the fact that they are a separate Clan.  Still, they call themselves Nova Cats.  The Nova Cats in the Protectorate meanwhile don't seem to trust the SC much.  I think another book will have to come out before the SC-NC thing is definitively decided.  Probably will also involve Kisho.

[Molossian Dog IIC]

It is quite simple. Can the Spirit Cats do anything that the Sharkfoxes would disapprove of?

The Sharkfoxes might think it convenient to let the Spirit Cats guard their stuff and handle the non lucrative day to day administration of the troublesome Spheroids.

But independence is wishful thinking.

[rebs]

Love the conversation on this thread.   O0  And why wouldn't I?

But I wanted to make mention of something regarding the idea of what it means to be a "real Clan", since it keeps coming up. 

There have been several Clans that are regarded by the others (and by certain fans) as not being a true Clan.  Wolves-in-Exile, the Nova Cats after their Abjuration from the Home Worlds, and the Spirit Cats are the prime examples.  Many fans insist that these are not true Clans, yet in canon, these factions and their constituents most certainly see their selves as Clan and behave accordingly.   

I think as the timeline marches on, whatever "line" delineated a true Clan from a false Clan blurs from existence.  At the end of the day, a Clan is as a Clan does, to paraphrase Hollywood wisdom. 

To me, the true mark of what a Clan is and what a Clan is not is much simpler.  If a faction behaves as a Clan and claims to be such, then that is what they are.  Until they are destroyed, they are what they are.  Simple existentialism.  Once they are no more, then they are no longer a Clan.  Even the Spirit Cats.

[Captain of C-21]

@Molossian Dog IIC

You ignored my response.  Other Inner Sphere powers when they are talking of the Clan Protectorate have referred to it as more a Spirit Cat thing than a Sea Fox thing.  If you can't disprove this using the story, please acknowledge my point.

Secondly;

The Spirit Cats have five Clusters of Battletechs, plus armor, battle armor, and aerospace assets in the Protectorate. 

The Sea Foxes have 1-2 Clusters (Delta Aimag and Omicron Cluster) of equivalents.


Furthermore, two other points.  Rikkard Nova Cat and Petr Kalasa of the Spina Khanate are best buddies.  There's no rivalry for who is top dog in the Clan Protectorate because both Clans are working together to ensure they have a place in the FWL.  And also, Clan Sea Fox is not interested in geo-political control, but rather economic.  They already have that in the Protectorate.  Why would they bother to start telling the SC/CNC what to do when the interests of the Spirit Cats and Sea Foxes perfectly align?

This just seems like a strange effort from you to put the Spirit Cats down for... misguided Sea Fox Patriotic reasons?  I dunno.

[WeaponX]

To me, the true mark of what a Clan is and what a Clan is not is much simpler.  If a faction behaves as a Clan and claims to be such, then that is what they are.  Until they are destroyed, they are what they are.  Simple existentialism.  Once they are no more, then they are no longer a Clan.  Even the Spirit Cats.

It might be that way to you, but "in universe", the Inner Sphere Clans only recognize those who belong to the "Council of Six" as true Clans.  That leaves out the Wolves in Exile, Nova Cats and their splinter faction the "Spirit Cats".

A loophole to get around this and get recognized as a "true clan" might be to get the Sea Foxes to "absorb" them and then immediately split them off into a new Clan called the "Spirit Cats".

[Jaim Magnus]

It's also worth noting that the Spirit Cats do not yet identify themselves as 'Clan Spirit Cat.'  Culturally and genetically they are Clan, which is partly why the Wolf Empire and Sea Foxes deal with them as such.  Spheroids really won't understand the nuances, as witnessed by their constant reference to the Spirit Cats as 'cultists.'

I'd call them a Clan related group personally, akin to the Exiles, Dragoons or Fidelis.

[Captain of C-21]

Actually, several Spirit Cat characters in the novels have mentioned that they are indeed a separate Clan from the Nova Cats.  Cox Nova Cat (later Devalis) in Target of Opportunity said something to the effect that they were Nova Cats and "and yet not.  We share customs, but we have others that are all our own".

Don't have my books with me right now otherwise I'd have the exact wording.

[rebs]

It might be that way to you, but "in universe", the Inner Sphere Clans only recognize those who belong to the "Council of Six" as true Clans.  That leaves out the Wolves in Exile, Nova Cats and their splinter faction the "Spirit Cats".

"In universe", ehhh? 

To the Wolves in exile, the Nova Cats (RIP), and the Spirit Cats (long may they prowl), they are Clan.  No one else has proved them wrong.

And from what I'm given to understand, the council of six is either an impotent body or it no longer exists as of 3145. 

And besides, of course the Wolves and Falcons and even the Bears won't recognize these entities as such, they are stuck on their selves now.  The Rasalhague Dominion should not be pointing claws or fingers at anyone else to deny their Clanhood.

If a faction claims it is a Clan and acts as a Clan, then they are a Clan.  Opinions of other Clans only matter as much as they can enforce their point of view.  If they are not doing so or cannot do so, then their point is clearly not a good one to hold by all Clan standards.

It's also worth noting that the Spirit Cats do not yet identify themselves as 'Clan Spirit Cat.'  Culturally and genetically they are Clan, which is partly why the Wolf Empire and Sea Foxes deal with them as such.  Spheroids really won't understand the nuances, as witnessed by their constant reference to the Spirit Cats as 'cultists.'

I'd call them a Clan related group personally, akin to the Exiles, Dragoons or Fidelis.

Good point, they are not officially Clan Spirit Cat...  but do the Wolves-in-Exile call their selves a Clan-related faction?  Or is that a fan conceit?  I know what one it most resembles. 

Besides, aren't the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate?  The Sea Foxes seem to have little problems dealing with them on the level of a fellow Clan.  The other Clans are just being narrow-minded, it seems.