Author Topic: Clan Protectorate  (Read 202241 times)

Molossian Dog IIC

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #450 on: 25 April 2014, 21:38:53 »
@Molossian Dog IIC
...
First, I can assure you that I don´t disregard the Spirit Cats because of any patriotic feelings towards the Sharkfoxes. Actually it is quite the opposite. As much as I consider the Spirit Cat occupation of former FWL territory, especially Marik, an affront, it is the Sharkfoxes I see as the real threat to the interests of the people of the former League. The Spirit Cats are merely their front.

Second, what the public thinks of who runs the show in the Protectorate means little. In terms of power politics, if anyone needs something, he -deals- with the Sharkfoxes, not the Cats. Because that is what they do. Making deals.
I bet you noticed what major inroads they have made in almost any IS state, only the CapCon being an exception. Whole regions are dependent on their commerce and they have made themselves indispendable to almost all militaries, supplying them -and their enemies- with clan tech. Their combined fleets and possessions are of unknown strenght, but certainly far outnumber whatever handful of clusters the Spirit Cats can whip together in the Protectorate. They have transport assets, factories, access to resources and connections all over the IS and beyond. We can take for granted that they virtually control the Chainlaine Islands and we would be wise to look closely what kind of scenario they set up when they are calling the shots unmolested.

In other words they are the power behind the throne of the Protectorate. Actually they aim to be the power behind many a throne. They are BT´s version of the mob. The Protectorate is just one of their many projects. People will turn towards them to deal because they have so much more to offer than that couple of worlds.

Also I wouldn´t rely on a personal friendship, especially in a society where an upstart Ristar can remove one of the friends at any given time.

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There's no rivalry for who is top dog in the Clan Protectorate because both Clans are working together to ensure they have a place in the FWL.
I think you are quite mistaken in this regard. There is no rivalry for who is top dog, because that question is settled already.
And reconsider the last part again. A place in the FWL? Who exactly needs a place? Is it the refugee Spirit Cats whose mother clan is dead, whose former home is inaccessible and whose former brethren abjured them - or is the Sharkfoxes who geared up for space gipsy life since decades, have bases all over the IS, are promised even more and a whole cluster of planets under their thumb in the periphery?

The Sharkfox-Spirit Cat relationship is stable at the moment, not because the Sharkfoxes are benign, but because the Cats are -currently- doing what furthers Sharfox interests. Should they develop other ideas the relationship would change rapidly.
« Last Edit: 25 April 2014, 21:41:30 by Molossian Dog IIC »

Kitsune413

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #451 on: 25 April 2014, 22:09:10 »
Incorrect.  Even Clan Wolf recognizes the Spirit Cats as the top Clan in the Protectorate, as in Bonfire of Worlds when Alaric Wolf mentions that attacking through that area will bring them into fierce contact with the Spirit Cats, not the Sea Foxes.

Whats funny is that I did not remember him mentioning the Spirit Cats. But he does mention both.

Quote from: Alaric Wolf - Bonfire Of Worlds
"Excuse me, Archon," said Alaric, cutting the man off. "You are planning to attack the Spirit Cats and Clan Sea Fox? That is most ambitious."
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Kitsune413

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #452 on: 25 April 2014, 22:21:01 »
If a faction claims it is a Clan and acts as a Clan, then they are a Clan.  Opinions of other Clans only matter as much as they can enforce their point of view.  If they are not doing so or cannot do so, then their point is clearly not a good one to hold by all Clan standards.

This is the only really important distinction on whether a clan is a clan or not. Is whether they think that they are and act like one. Whether the Council of Six disagrees with you. If you think you are clan, then you are. The Inner Sphere does not see a distinction like the Council of Six when they view those cultures.

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Besides, aren't the Spirit Cats in the Clan Protectorate?  The Sea Foxes seem to have little problems dealing with them on the level of a fellow Clan.  The other Clans are just being narrow-minded, it seems.   

The Wolf Empire treats the Spirit Cats as a Clan.

Rikkard actually presumes that they are still a part of Clan Nova Cat, even if they are a cult inside of it. In fact, every single Spirit Cat in, "To Ride the Chimera' that doesn't have a bloodname, including Rikkard Nova Cat has the surname Nova Cat.

Here is a quote of some relevance,

Quote from:
Enclaves of Nova Cats in the Inner Sphere had long been isolated from the larger Clan, and some of those independent groups had undergone a transformation: no longer able to envision their future as traditional members of the Nova Cat Clan, they sought a separate life elsewhere. Their blood remained the blood of the Nova Cats, however; there was not, and might never be, a Clan Spirit Cat.
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WeaponX

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #453 on: 25 April 2014, 22:22:12 »
"In universe", ehhh? 

To the Wolves in exile, the Nova Cats (RIP), and the Spirit Cats (long may they prowl), they are Clan.  No one else has proved them wrong.

And from what I'm given to understand, the council of six is either an impotent body or it no longer exists as of 3145.   

The thing is that the non Council of Six "Clans" might be treated as "Clans" by members of the Council of Six by their individual discretion, but if they cross the line like trial for bloodheritages or some other Clan sensitive matter from the Council of Six Clans, they would probably get a negative response and open themselves up for an instant Trial of Annihilation since the Council of Six doesn't need to vote on that issue if you are a "Clan" that isn't a member of the Council of Six.  In other words it would be like they're constantly looking over their shoulder when dealing with "real" Clans because they could turn on them at the drop of a hat at the slightest perceived slight.  Just look at the treatment the Bears gave to the Nova Cats in the 2nd Bear-Combine war for an example on how a "pseudo" Clan gets treated when a "true" Clan gets mad at them. 

As I mentioned previously, the way the Spirit Cats can gain equality with the "true" Clans is if they go through the absorption and division into a new Clan process (you can look at it as being "baptized" into becoming a "true" Clan) with the help of Clan Sea Fox.
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Doy

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #454 on: 25 April 2014, 22:52:31 »
Field Manual 3145 page 109
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The Clan Protectorate military comprises disparate elements from the Spirit Cats, Clan Nova Cat, Clan Sea Fox (née Diamond Shark), and various native inhabitants of the Clan Protectorate worlds.

The Rest of the Nova Cats are now in the First Nova Cat Provisionals. (That is cool!)
But they are only rests from teh Republic all by Kurita dies.

some Familar is to find in Erea Report 3145 page 183

FM3145 Page 97 is said
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The Spirit Cats seem to revel in Clan-versus-Clan engagements, ...
The show me that the Spirit Cats are a Clan!


Kitsune413

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #455 on: 25 April 2014, 22:52:48 »
They are BT´s version of the mob.

I disagree with this. Maybe BT's version of the East India Trading Company, but they have not yet, unless they start doing the things that Ben Rome has written in his april fools outline, done anything of the sort.

Clan Sea Fox has a sort of natural check and balance on itself in so far as that 1. They are a Clan. So they will try to act as honorably as possible... and 2. They are a Clan whose Totem Animal seems to bow to its opponent. Making them attempt to act even more honorably. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that they don't have the potential to be a grave threat. But they aren't even white collar criminals right now...

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Also I wouldn´t rely on a personal friendship, especially in a society where an upstart Ristar can remove one of the friends at any given time.

Nobody is going to attack Rikkard. He's the spirit cat version of a messiah. Well, there was Janis Nova Cat. But she's dead now. That was arguably pre-ascension.

Petr Kalasa is on his way to being Mori Hawker's replacement I'd bet.

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The Sharkfox-Spirit Cat relationship is stable at the moment, not because the Sharkfoxes are benign, but because the Cats are -currently- doing what furthers Sharfox interests. Should they develop other ideas the relationship would change rapidly.

If you ignore the last two hundred plus years of Clan Sea Fox. They got over their operation Klondike grudges naturally and even when Clan Snow Raven slaughtered their totem animal because someone made fun of them on the chatterweb hard all they did was fleece them... and now they have a good relationship with them.

Clan Sea Fox likes allies. If they can make the Spirit Cats stronger... while profiting off of it. Thus gaining a Stronger ally... they will do it.
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Doy

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #456 on: 25 April 2014, 23:24:57 »
MechWarrior: Dark Age - Dossiers and Pilot Cards : JANIS NOVA CAT

Quote
She claims that during her Trial of Position,
which gained her entry into the Purifiers, she had a
vision of the glory she would reap for herself and her
Clan
;

There is Told that the Spirits Cats are a Clan

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Molossian Dog IIC

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #457 on: 26 April 2014, 08:48:40 »
I disagree with this. Maybe BT's version of the East India Trading Company...
My point was that in the enterprise of the Protectorate the Spirit Cats are the junior partner. And the Sharkfoxes the power behind the throne. If you prefer the East India Trading Company as a comparison, that works for me as well. It had junior partners as well. Quite dependent ones, I might add.

...
Nobody is going to attack Rikkard. He's the spirit cat version of a messiah. Well, there was Janis Nova Cat. But she's dead now. That was arguably pre-ascension.

Petr Kalasa is on his way to being Mori Hawker's replacement I'd bet.
...
Might be, might not. Still, leadership changes resulting in quite drastic policy changes is actually something the clan system is reknown for. And leadership changes can happen rapidly. I think I don´t have to cite examples of this.

...
Clan Sea Fox likes allies. If they can make the Spirit Cats stronger... while profiting off of it. Thus gaining a Stronger ally... they will do it.
The Protectorate is an investment. I concur. Actually this is the main reason the Spirit Cats will not be allowed independence. Should the Cats get ideas of their own which are not 100% in line with Sharkfox interests the Sharkfoxes would tighten the screws quickly. And they have quite a few screws to hurt the Cats with, if they were so inclined.
They wouldn´t even have to rely on something as crude as actual threats or violence to make the Cats comply.

We can talk about how the Spirit Cats profit from this arrangement, but that doesn´t change the nature of the arrangement. Not one of equal partners, but one of lord and vassal.

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #458 on: 26 April 2014, 11:25:52 »
Yeah, you really need to support your argument with source references because none of what you claim as the Foxes' attitude and goals is at all supported in anything that's been published. I have no idea where you're getting all this from, but it is most definitely not an accurate depiction of the Foxes.

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #459 on: 26 April 2014, 11:37:04 »
Quote
My point was that in the enterprise of the Protectorate the Spirit Cats are the junior partner. And the Sharkfoxes the power behind the throne.

I think not i think is a 50% to 50% rule in a good partnership.
Clan Sea Fox can't move the Entrire Clan why they lose than the other holdings.
The clan is too scattered and therefore can not fight as a whole at one point.

For the sharks, is the Protectorate very lookrativ, they have opened new markets ( From the protectorate they can even reach Liao ) and haus marik can't thwart or disturb their clan fights with other factions (by the others holdings) because they are on same side now.

But the ally with the Sharks bring Clan Spirit Cats in a more save position.
I think Rickard & Petr rule the protectorate like real good Friends and show a the perfect coexistence of two clans.

Die Katzen behalten ihre autonomy.
Dies wird nur eingeschränkt durch die Partnerschaft in der beiden Clans wenn sie mal nicht gleicher Meinung sind, müssen sie ein Compromiss anstreben.

The cats keep their autonomy.
This is only restricted by the partnership of the two clans when they are not even the same opinion, they must strive for a Compromise.
But Molossian Dog IIC your comparison with the Company is out of place.

Quote
The Protectorate is an investment.
With this i agree you but the alliance with Marik and the Cats too!
The sharks are smart enough to know that in addition to profit good allies are important.

...more to this deeper by "After all, what if"!

NOVA CATS:
What you guys think will the Nova Cats be absorbed by the Spirit Cats ?
I think: *So long this Cluster exists, the Clan still exist too and is not annihilated.*


After all, what if:
When the shark and the cats have Strife

Fist both Stand aginst each other the Nova Cats stand on side of Spirit Cats than.
The entire Sea Fox Clan can not move in this war but sure get support by other Khante or Aimags.
Then i am sure the Spirit Cats ask the Oriente Protectorat or complete LFW for help.
But in Same turn the Ghost Bears and Snow Ravens are good Ally of the Seafoxes. (could be a cool war)

One thing is clear both sides become heavily damaged.

The First and Second Protectorate Guardians (Unity in Strength) would be fight them self.
Tehy are build with FWL people and commanded by Sharks and Cat Commanders.
This shows me that they should work well together, and this bring me back to my meaning from before:
Both show a the perfect coexistence of two clans.

Molossian Dog IIC

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #460 on: 26 April 2014, 12:52:05 »
Yeah, you really need to support your argument with source references because none of what you claim as the Foxes' attitude and goals is at all supported in anything that's been published. I have no idea where you're getting all this from, but it is most definitely not an accurate depiction of the Foxes.
Take, for example, all of the TROs of 3145. Everyone and their dog is buying clan tech from the Sharkfoxes. The amount of gear going through their hands annualy must be huge.

I think that fact alone suffices to point out that the Shark Foxes are more influental, richer, better connected, have more production capacity at their hands, more know how and more personnel than the Spirit Cats. Not to speak of transportation assets or actual fleet assets. (of which the Spirit Cats seem to have none at all)

So, in the project that is the Clan Protectorate you have two partners. One strong and one not. Dependency is the natural result of such a constellation.

If you think this last part nothing but conjecture, well, in that case we can safely agree to disagree.

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #461 on: 26 April 2014, 13:29:17 »
Except that is only the Delta Aimag of the Spina Khanate that is involved with the Clan Protectorate.  The Khanates all do their own thing and aren't going to come together to run the Protectorate.  That again leaves 1-2 Sea Fox Clusters worth of Warriors and merchants in the Protectorate as opposed to 5 SC/CNC.  You're treating Clan Sea Fox as a monolithic entity, while in fact the Clan is pretty badly fragmented, having had two coup attempts on Khan Mori Hawker, and has really avoided any more problems because all the Khanates are off and about selling things in different sectors of the Inner Sphere.

To put it frankly, the Clan does best together as a whole when they aren't working closely together.  To suggest that they're all going to come together to command the Protectorate is just ignoring how the Clan works now in the Dark Ages.

No one here who identifies with the Protectorate is trying to get "top dog", or supreme Clan status, this is a partnership between Clans.  And if you continue to insist on it otherwise, I think the Sea Foxes and we Spirit Cats would be only too happy to show you the door. ;D

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #462 on: 26 April 2014, 16:32:02 »
I agree Captain of C-21

Have i seen right Steel Wolves are on Holt in FWL ?
   I read there: Steel Wolves (m)
   FM 3145  by maps   
They do some Mercenary work or what  means this m ?
FM 3145 page 182 i can read they are 1 cluste big under NOTABLE MERCENARY FORCES - FREE WORLDS LEAGUE

What is 3145 teh Relation between Dragons Fury and spirit Cats ?
« Last Edit: 26 April 2014, 16:35:26 by Doy »

glitterboy2098

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #463 on: 26 April 2014, 17:44:41 »
IIRC, when Tassa K. took over the steel wolves, they went merc. though she eventually split with them and formed the wolfhunters. i guess the remaining steel wolves that didn't follow her went kept to mercenary work

Kitsune413

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #464 on: 26 April 2014, 19:47:37 »
The Khanates all do their own thing and aren't going to come together to run the Protectorate.

Not completely true. Clan Wolf learned his themselves when they attacked an aimag fleet and several khanates came together to wipe out one of their clusters.

 
Quote
That again leaves 1-2 Sea Fox Clusters worth of Warriors and merchants in the Protectorate as opposed to 5 SC/CNC.

6 clusters in spina, keep in mind omicron cluster is mixed. Not that it matters. We would not fight. I know you are trying to explain how the protectorate isnt under sea fox control, its not by the way. Petr really likes Rikkard and Julietta. But this is the wrong way to prove it. Keep in mind that the protectorate exists because clan sea fox had their trade partners acknowledge their soveirenty.

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You're treating Clan Sea Fox as a monolithic entity

Not yet. Maybe, almost

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while in fact the Clan is pretty badly fragmented, having had two coup attempts on Khan Mori Hawker,

Only one. With the clan expanding and the lack of communication we are losing cohesion. Sha Clarke did try to kill mori but the undercurrent is being managed by the watch and through warrior trials.

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and has really avoided any more problems because all the Khanates are off and about selling things in different sectors of the Inner Sphere.

Being managed by appropriate warriors and the watch until communications are restored. Petr Kalasa or Antoinette replacing Mori would be a good step.

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To put it frankly, the Clan does best together as a whole when they aren't working closely together.  To suggest that they're all going to come together to command the Protectorate is just ignoring how the Clan works now in the Dark Ages.

It would be massively out of character for clan sea fox.

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No one here who identifies with the Protectorate is trying to get "top dog", or supreme Clan status, this is a partnership between Clans.

This is true. :)

The thing is that even if they are practicing mercantalism, clan sea fox has read Adam Smith. They arent unaware that multiple organizations can become wealthy simultaneously.

Its a clan that also values all of its parts. It knows that every single caste is important for the 'Clan' to be healthy.

Well two clans can be one organism. One group. For the 'Clan Protectorate' to be strong it is going to need strong provincial forces. Well if Clan Spirit Cat is strong and Clan Sea Fox is strong then the protectorate is strong.

It is one group... and the Spirit Cats possess labor forces in both lower castes and in warriors in that region that clan sea fox doesnt have. Alienating the spirit cats, getting in a fight over the protectorate is not good for business...

And also, we do not get stronger at other clans expense!
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rebs

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #465 on: 27 April 2014, 00:10:21 »
And also, we do not get stronger at other clans expense!

Yep, we never once got stronger at the expense of Clan Jade Falcon  ^-^

And no one reveled in the Shark Foxes doing it to the turkeys, either  ;)

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Colt Ward

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #466 on: 27 April 2014, 00:23:56 »
 . . . please do a fake advert with the Protectorate Express . . .
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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #467 on: 27 April 2014, 00:26:52 »
The Clan Protectorate: It Pays to be a Member.

We have really nice golf courses ...

Molossian Dog IIC

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #468 on: 27 April 2014, 08:46:52 »
...
To put it frankly, the Clan does best together as a whole when they aren't working closely together.  To suggest that they're all going to come together to command the Protectorate is just ignoring how the Clan works now in the Dark Ages....
If you had read closely what I wrote I didn´t suggest that at all. My points are a) the Sharkfoxes are way stronger than the Spirit Cats and b) that makes the Spirit Cats indebted and dependent on them. In fact they wouldn´t be on Marik without the Sharkfoxes in the first place.


... And if you continue to insist on it otherwise, I think the Sea Foxes and we Spirit Cats would be only too happy to show you the door. ;D
Last time I checked users don´t get to decide who expresses his opinions in what threads. But I might as well drop the issue since you seem to have made up your mind already. If you are happier thinking of the Spirit Cats and Sharkfoxes as equally powerful and don´t think it possible that the Foxes will ever stoop so low to use the leverage they have, who am I to tell you otherwise? Go ahead.


As a sidenote: A quick glance at the TROs and record sheets told me that the Sharkfoxes produce:
3 types of vehicles
11 types of Mechs
and provide parts for another 2 and 5 respectively.
Probably more because I didn´t bother to check the variants.

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #469 on: 27 April 2014, 10:31:58 »
I am of the opinion that the above mentioned faction Sharkfoxes is some sort of side story that diverges from the main line of Clan Sea Fox. 

The first mistake Molossian Dog IIC makes is in the belief that the Spirit Cats are weak just because they are small and few in number.  The second mistake is thinking the Cats are indebted to and dependent on the Foxes for anything.  The third seems to be one of confusing Distribution Centers and Supply Depots for Manufacturing Facilities and production of raw materials.

From all the accounts I've read (admitting that it is sparse and rare), Clan Sea Fox chose, like many others, to specialize in a certain field.  As Interstellar Master Traders, they do a fine job and fit a conceivable niche.  I've heard no reports prior to the "Clan Protectorate" of this Clan controlling even a single world of its own.  I could be wrong, and there might be many posts following this citing chapter and verse to prove it.  (Which is fine, that's what the forums are for, quiaff?)

Clan Nova Cat might be dead beyond resurrection, but the Spirit Cats remain and there is still hope that a few surviving Nova Cats might find their way to Marik Space.  This much about Spirit Cats I do know, they will not be dominated or absorbed by any other faction.  They are all veterans of many battles and no living Spirit Cat has ever lost a fight (hubris override button switched off).

If anyone really thinks they can impose a debt on the Spirit Cats, they are welcome to try.  I am sure the SCats will offer an exchange of equal value that can not be refused.

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« Last Edit: 27 April 2014, 14:35:09 by GhostCat »
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martian

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #470 on: 27 April 2014, 11:32:05 »
From all the accounts I've read (admitting that it is sparse and rare), Clan Sea Fox chose, like many others, to specialize in a certain field.  As Interstellar Master Traders, they do a fine job and fit a conceivable niche. I've heard no reports prior to the "Clan Protectorate" of this Clan controlling even a single of its own.  I could be wrong, and there might be many posts following this citing chapter and verse to prove it.  (Which is fine, that's what the forums are for, quiaff?)
I am not sure what exactly are you talking about. A planet? The Diamond Sharks own or owned Twycross (Field Manual: Updates, p.12) and they used to own Trondheim and Itabaina, and they have serious influence over Chainelane Isles (Field Manual: 3145, p.151).

Clan Nova Cat might be dead beyond resurrection, but the Spirit Cats remain and there is still hope that a few surviving Nova Cats might find their way to Marik Space.  This much about Spirit Cats I do know, they will not be dominated or absorbed by any other faction.  They are all veterans of many battles and no living Spirit Cat has ever lost a fight (hubris override button switched off).
Actually, they lost some Trials:
TRO:3145 - FWL - "MechWarrior Julie of Clan Wolf ... defeated two Spirit Cats 'Mechs." (p.40) So you may be right: No living Spirit Cats ... because they possibly died in that lost Trial.

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #471 on: 27 April 2014, 14:34:09 »
I am not sure what exactly are you talking about. A planet? The Diamond Sharks own or owned Twycross (Field Manual: Updates, p.12) and they used to own Trondheim and Itabaina, and they have serious influence over Chainelane Isles (Field Manual: 3145, p.151).

Yes, I did mean world, will edit post to say that.  I stand corrected about those worlds, most of my reference books do not include events after the FedCom Civil War.  So, I must still catch up on a lot of things that lead to the Dark Age. 

Quote
Actually, they lost some Trials:
TRO:3145 - FWL - "MechWarrior Julie of Clan Wolf ... defeated two Spirit Cats 'Mechs." (p.40) So you may be right: No living Spirit Cats ... because they possibly died in that lost Trial.

Not knowing what was at stake in that trial, I'd have to agree.  Just one Wolf?  Or was that the only survivor?

GC
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martian

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #472 on: 27 April 2014, 14:47:25 »
Not knowing what was at stake in that trial, I'd have to agree.  Just one Wolf?  Or was that the only survivor?
GC

1) Both Era Report: 3145 and Field Manual: 3145 mention Trials Of Possession between the Wolves and the Spirit Cats. So it was probably during one of those Trials.

2) And there is one thing that's not going to make you happy: That Clan Wolf MechWarrior - who defeated two Spirit Cats - piloted "inferior" Spheroid machine (JLN-5A Juliano).  ;)

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #473 on: 27 April 2014, 16:35:55 »
What?  I was pretty sure the Juliano pilot mentioned in the FWL TRO was a Spirit Cat warrior, whose Star Commander had given her an Inner Sphere machine because he thought it was funny.  Pretty sure you got your Clans mixed up there Martian.

Besides, apparently the Spirit Cats have already repulsed at least one Clan Wolf attack on the Protectorate, as mentioned in one of the 3145 products.

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #474 on: 27 April 2014, 16:43:44 »
What?  I was pretty sure the Juliano pilot mentioned in the FWL TRO was a Spirit Cat warrior, whose Star Commander had given her an Inner Sphere machine because he thought it was funny.  Pretty sure you got your Clans mixed up there Martian.

It doesn't actually specify which Clan Julie and her not-so-humorous Star Commander come from.  The wording of it -- referring to "her defeat of two Spirit Cat 'Mechs in a recent Trial" -- implies that she's from another Clan, which could mean she's a Sharkfox or a Wolf, being the only other two Clans that operate near the Protectorate (and both of whom could conceivably have Julianos; the Wolves as salvage from HAMMERFALL, the Sharkfoxes in trade with the FWL).
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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #475 on: 27 April 2014, 16:49:05 »
What?  I was pretty sure the Juliano pilot mentioned in the FWL TRO was a Spirit Cat warrior, whose Star Commander had given her an Inner Sphere machine because he thought it was funny.  Pretty sure you got your Clans mixed up there Martian.

How I understand it, this MechWarior Julie is from some Clan Wolf second-line Cluster.

Why do you think that the author mentioned specifically the fact that the Clan Wolf uses salvaged Julianos (plus the info from both primary 3145 sourcebooks about hard-fought Trials between the CW and the Spirit Cats) in the same entry?

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #476 on: 27 April 2014, 16:58:52 »
All right, I asked a question here:
MechWarrior Julie

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #477 on: 27 April 2014, 19:35:29 »
Last time I checked users don´t get to decide who expresses his opinions in what threads.

I've noticed a trend with Nova Cat players to be quite in character on the boards...

Quote
As a sidenote: A quick glance at the TROs and record sheets told me that the Sharkfoxes produce:
3 types of vehicles
11 types of Mechs
and provide parts for another 2 and 5 respectively.
Probably more because I didn´t bother to check the variants.

We had our hands all over a lot of Nova Cat tech too. Sphinx's, Wendigo's, etc.
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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #478 on: 27 April 2014, 20:00:52 »
My points are a) the Sharkfoxes are way stronger than the Spirit Cats and b) that makes the Spirit Cats indebted and dependent on them. In fact they wouldn´t be on Marik without the Sharkfoxes in the first place.

The fact that the Foxes are stronger than the Spirit Cats doesn't make them either indebted or dependent upon the Foxes especially with the Non-Aggression Pact currently in force.  The fact that the Foxes helped established the Clan Protectorate, on the other hand, does make the Spirit Cats indebted to the Foxes.  As part of their agreement, the Foxes have almost exclusive rights to trade within the Clan Protectorate and, through that, the Spirit Cats are dependent upon them for new equipment and supplies. 

Quote
Last time I checked users don´t get to decide who expresses his opinions in what threads. But I might as well drop the issue since you seem to have made up your mind already. If you are happier thinking of the Spirit Cats and Sharkfoxes as equally powerful and don´t think it possible that the Foxes will ever stoop so low to use the leverage they have, who am I to tell you otherwise? Go ahead.

Part of the problem is that you may not be expressing yourself clearly.  For example, your statement above that the Spirit Cats are indebted and dependent upon the Foxes simply because they are stronger may not be what you meant to say but that it is how it reads.

Quote
As a sidenote: A quick glance at the TROs and record sheets told me that the Sharkfoxes produce:
3 types of vehicles
11 types of Mechs
and provide parts for another 2 and 5 respectively.
Probably more because I didn´t bother to check the variants.

Only a tiny percentage of which goes to the Clan Protectorate.  The Spirit Cats have never been overly reliant upon Clan-tech, fielding whatever was available.  Even years after establishing supply lines through the Foxes, they still field large quantities of IS equipment.
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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #479 on: 27 April 2014, 20:36:26 »
The Clan protectorate gives the Foxes a seat in the FWL parliament. Who cares about the Spirit Cats?