Clan Protectorate

[GhostCat]

I can hear the heads of the Black Dragons exploding now...

At which point, somebody should whisper in the Coordinator's ear, that Hohiro is only the seventynineth iteration of fortytwo sibkos that actually used that blood line.  Yep, I can see how just knowing that can happen would give the entire Combine a lot of sleepless nights. 

GC

[wolfgar]

however if he claims the name Daisuke, son of Emi. well thats going to be a whole different kettle of fish stew.

[WONC]

I wonder whatever happened to the Rossei cloister... I really could see that going either way.

From what I've read of the Cobras post-Reaving, a few Cloisters either had their warrior population decreased to nothing, or were actually wiped out in targeted attacks. Now, the Cloister is only the warrior-exclusive "holy order" associated with any given faith in Clan space, so there are probably still plenty of Rossei faithful out there. The thing that bothers me, though, is how the idea of taint could be wielded against a small Cloister like the Rossei, who have such a strong connection with a Clan that was in the Inner Sphere.

I dunno, I have hope (plus, there were only a handful of Cloisters lost in the Reavings) that the Cobras contain the "seed" of what the Cats were, but I don't hold my breath. The idea that the descendants of Cat civilians transfered to the Cobras survived and passed something of themselves to the rest of the Clans has a certain poetry to it.

[Istal_Devalis]

My point: Two years is nothing.

Yeah, I aint holding my breath on this one.

[Klat]

Looks like the Spirit Cats have a color scheme on camospecs  O0

Now I need to learn how to paint white.

[martian]

Looks like the Spirit Cats have a color scheme on camospecs  O0

Now I need to learn how to paint white.

Have you noticed that they are listed as "Pirates"?

[GhostCat]

So, based on a single disparaging comment by a retired game developer, we are supposed to ignore everything that made them Clan Warriors, and just accept that a few lost Nova Cat units went rogue and joined a band of outlaws. 

GC

[Deadborder]

They're "pirates" based on the fact that the Spirit Cats were never a legitimate force. They were in fact renegades operating against what was their original government (the Republic of the Sphere). All of the MWDA factions, save for the Highlanders, would be in the same situation.

The Spirit Cats saw themselves as legitimate Clan warriors. However, they were still renegades and outlaws to their parent government.

[GhostCat]

They're "pirates" based on the fact that the Spirit Cats were never a legitimate force. They were in fact renegades operating against what was their original government (the Republic of the Sphere). All of the MWDA factions, save for the Highlanders, would be in the same situation.

Too sweeping a generalization, though Wizkids did initially intend some kind of simplification like that. 

The Spirit Cats saw themselves as legitimate Clan warriors. However, they were still renegades and outlaws to their parent government.

"The Spirit Cats saw themselves as legitimate Clan warriors."  Period, end of explanation.  Clan Nova Cat never rejected them, what other parent organization would the Spirit Cats claim? 

Abjured, Assimilated, Annihilated, Exterminated are just a few things the Cats have survived over the years, What makes the RotS any different from the other 'parent governments' they've been a part of?

GC

[roosterboy]

Too sweeping a generalization, though Wizkids did initially intend some kind of simplification like that. 

Not at all. It's exactly correct. They were a small group acting on their own interests against that of their legitimate government, after having misappropriated equipment from the legitimate military force. Call them rebels, call them insurgents, call them pirates, if you will; it's all the same. Unlike, say, the Dragon's Fury, they didn't declare allegiance to another realm but were pursuing the personal agenda of Kev Rosse and those who bought into his vision. They attacked legitimate military forces of the Republic, they seized military and civilian assets belonging to the Republic, they were pirates. Their goals might have been different from those of Katana Tormark or Aaron Sandoval or Jacob Bannson, but their methods were the same and that makes them pirates.

"The Spirit Cats saw themselves as legitimate Clan warriors."  Period, end of explanation.

There's your simplification. Yes, the Spirit Cats saw themselves as Clan warriors, but they were also pledged to the Republic. It doesn't matter how the Spirit Cats saw themselves; everyone can justify their own actions however they want. In acting against their orders and in their own interests, they became pirates. Period, end of explanation.

Clan Nova Cat never rejected them, what other parent organization would the Spirit Cats claim? 

The parent organization they were already pledged to and that had not rejected them? i.e., the Republic. And Clan Nova Cat did reject them; they considered the Spirit Cats a bunch of fools. It wasn't until later, after the Nova Cats were part of the Combine invasion of the Republic and after Kev Rosse's death, that the Clan opened its arms to the Spirit Cats and welcomed them back. Before that, they tried to wipe them out. "They are no more Nova Cats . . . than, say, the Dragon’s Fury are Kuritans." -- Jacali Nostra (Heretic's Faith, p50).

Abjured, Assimilated, Annihilated, Exterminated are just a few things the Cats have survived over the years, What makes the RotS any different from the other 'parent governments' they've been a part of?

It never abjured, annihilated or exterminated them? It never gave up on them or rejected them? It welcomed them and made them a part of the whole? It allowed their people to experience a freedom they never had among them Clans and accepted their leaders among the top movers and shakers of the Republic? Unlike the examples of people who became part of the Republic just because of what planet they happened to live on in 3081, the ancestors of the Spirit Cats voluntarily joined Stone's dream and broke from their own people to do so; in many ways, their betrayal is worse than that of a Katana Tormark or a Jasek Kelswa-Steiner.

You can like the Spirit Cats (heck, I like the Spirit Cats) all you want but don't hold any illusions about their behavior.

[False Son]

Clan Nova Cat never rejected them, what other parent organization would the Spirit Cats claim?

They did at one point.  Kisho ordered all attacks against the Spirits Cats.

Abjured, Assimilated, Annihilated, Exterminated are just a few things the Cats have survived over the years, What makes the RotS any different from the other 'parent governments' they've been a part of?

Because the Republic never did one thing wrong to the Spirit Cats.  The Spirit Cats in return for sheltering the Nova Cats and giving them say in Republic affairs as Paladins, Knights and Senators, Kev Rosse decided to take Republic worlds for himself.  Instead of standing up for the Republic in a time of crisis, Kev Rosse took advantage.  He is not very far off from Kal Raddick likewise turning his back on the Republic instead of standing up for the government in which he once held power.

[Peacemaker]

I never liked how certain writers referred to the various Blackout rebels as pirates. To me, piracy implies simple plundering and looting without a political motive. With the exception of the Steel Wolves under Anastasia Kerensky's tenure and possibly Bannson's Raiders, all of the Republic splinter factions had a strong political agenda. Sure, you can make a case that they were all technically pirates, but I think calling them that is unnecessarily obtuse; why not just call them insurgents, rebels, splinter factions or something more clear?

[Klat]

I just realized that I still don't have an answer to the Purifiers Cluster paint scheme  :(

All I know is the bit about glyphs...

[Deadborder]

I never liked how certain writers referred to the various Blackout rebels as pirates. To me, piracy implies simple plundering and looting without a political motive. With the exception of the Steel Wolves under Anastasia Kerensky's tenure and possibly Bannson's Raiders, all of the Republic splinter factions had a strong political agenda. Sure, you can make a case that they were all technically pirates, but I think calling them that is unnecessarily obtuse; why not just call them insurgents, rebels, splinter factions or something more clear?

Because "Pirate" is a pre-existing category on the Camospecs page and it's simple and straightforward to file all such insurgent, rebel, splinter and so on factions under the one header rather then add yet another category for what are, at best, minor factions.

That aside, the Spirit Cats were an illegal organisation operating against the legitimate government. They co-opted, stole, looted or otherwise illegally acquired weapons, 'Mechs and vehicles from the Republic Armed Forces. They attacked Republic forces, Republic citizens and Republic property. They invaded and occupied Republic worlds. All of this was done under their own volition. They're pirates, even if you dress it up as something else.

Now don't get me wrong; I like the Spirit Cats. They're one of my favourites of the MWDA factions. I'm also not under any illusions as to what they were or what they did either.

[GhostCat]

When you get right down to it, there are no factions in the Battletech Universe that isn't perpetrating some form of Piracy.  It comes from capturing, salvaging and repurposing weapons and equipment to continue a war that might have ended from pure attrition. 

What I can object to is the extensive use of the term Canon to justify what is really just a personal and biased Opinion expressed in ten words or less by a single character in a novel or story.  Mostly because FASA set that precedent years ago with the very first source books.  Sometimes more is explained later, but mostly things get retconned until they no longer resemble what you thought you knew.

"They are no more Nova Cats . . . than, say, the Dragon’s Fury are Kuritans." -- Jacali Nostra (Heretic's Faith, p50).

I would have said this was patently false, but it's more like an oxymoron.  Dragon's Fury was composed of old Sword of Light units and other regiments that were told they could not return to the Combine.  The Nova Cats never treated their element in the Republic with the same sort of contempt.  Of course fifty years is a lot of water under the bridge and we can only hope that none of those original volunteers were still serving on the front lines during the Dark Age.

GC

[martian]

Dragon's Fury was composed of old Sword of Light units and other regiments that were told they could not return to the Combine. 

Could you elaborate? I thought that the Draconis Combine "gifted" 9th Sword of Light to the Republic. No other regiments.
And said SoL regiment was disbanded shortly after that and its manpower and equipment were used to build various new RAF regiments.

[False Son]

When you get right down to it, there are no factions in the Battletech Universe that isn't perpetrating some form of Piracy.  It comes from capturing, salvaging and repurposing weapons and equipment to continue a war that might have ended from pure attrition. 

There is a tricky hinterland here.  The Spirit Cats, unlike the various states of the Inner Sphere are not operating under the claim of popular sovereignty.  They were a breakoff group of an ethnic group that was formally recognized by the Republic.  If they want to claim sovereignty no one can stop them.  However, even the Republic had gotten majority consent of the other nations in the Inner Sphere prior to it's formation.  The Spirit Cats absconding with RAF materials and fighters, then setting up shop on Republic worlds is a far different process.  Basically, if ten people agree to take over your block because they are of the same mind are they a legitimate political body with intentions of running these worlds, or simply interested in power?  It is a question the modern UN has grappled with.  What constitutes a nation?

I would have said this was patently false, but it's more like an oxymoron.  Dragon's Fury was composed of old Sword of Light units and other regiments that were told they could not return to the Combine.  The Nova Cats never treated their element in the Republic with the same sort of contempt.  Of course fifty years is a lot of water under the bridge and we can only hope that none of those original volunteers were still serving on the front lines during the Dark Age.

It comes from the same area, cultural exclusivity.  Those Nova Cats over there, those aren't real Nova Cats.  We're the real Nova Cats.  All the other Nova Cats are just pretenders, and we own all Nova Catness.  Substitute Nova Cat with Kuritan and there you go.  Dragon's Fury members were culturally Kuritan, and felt the call of the Combine to return.  Powers within the Combine dismiss them as partisans and pretenders.  But, from the perspective of the Dragon's Fury, raised in a Combine influenced culture, likely in Japanese speaking households, no one gets to tell them they are or are not Kuritan.  Sadly, this practice goes on in many places all over the world.  The term "plastic Paddy" springs to mind, but it isn't exclusive.

There is also a political aspect to the Dragon's Fury.  Vincent Kurita didn't choose to acknowledge the Dragon's Fury for some time because the Dragon was formally allied to the Republic.  He didn't want to appear to be cheering the demise of the Republic, or be accused of recognizing partisans taking over Republic worlds, sometimes with still functional Republic governments and garrisons.  He also had pressure from the Warlords.  If Deiron district was going to be reclaimed it would be by the DCMS when he chose.  Having his hand forced by Katana Tormark was where he wavered for some time.  Katana expected Vincent to immediately recognize her cause, and had severe moments of doubt when he didn't.

Not that Khan Nostra's musing matter at this point.  The Spirit Cats are the only major Nova Cat body even surviving with known autonomy.  They are Nova Cat by default, thank you very much.  The surviving Nova Cats that joined them in the Protectorate only add an air of legitimacy to their claim.

[Kitsune413]

Pirates are awesome

[Savage Coyote]

Captain Sparrow:  The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do. For instance, you can accept that your father was a pirate and a good man or you can't. But pirate is in your blood, boy, so you'll have to square with that some day.

 ;D

[Kitsune413]

Captain Sparrow:  The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do. For instance, you can accept that your father was a pirate and a good man or you can't. But pirate is in your blood, boy, so you'll have to square with that some day.

 ;D

Bravo! Well played.  ;D

[Captain of C-21]

When you get right down to it, there are no factions in the Battletech Universe that isn't perpetrating some form of Piracy.  It comes from capturing, salvaging and repurposing weapons and equipment to continue a war that might have ended from pure attrition. 

What I can object to is the extensive use of the term Canon to justify what is really just a personal and biased Opinion expressed in ten words or less by a single character in a novel or story.  Mostly because FASA set that precedent years ago with the very first source books.  Sometimes more is explained later, but mostly things get retconned until they no longer resemble what you thought you knew.

I would have said this was patently false, but it's more like an oxymoron.  Dragon's Fury was composed of old Sword of Light units and other regiments that were told they could not return to the Combine.  The Nova Cats never treated their element in the Republic with the same sort of contempt.  Of course fifty years is a lot of water under the bridge and we can only hope that none of those original volunteers were still serving on the front lines during the Dark Age.

GC

According to the ER and other Dark Age Material, the Nova Cats in Kuritan Space became far less "Nova Catness" with a big loss of mysticism following the 2nd Combine-Dominion War.  The ROTS Cats meanwhile maintained that mysticism.  That did create a rift of sorts.

[marauder648]

I'm glad some of the Spirit/Nova's survived, and who knows other exiles might make their way there too. I doubt any of those who did a runner during the WotR would get that far.  Either unwilling or simply unable due to sheer logistical distance.

[Kitsune413]

I'm not sure. For instance, the Purifiers have a strange hate on for clan wolf.

The Clan Protectorate is the name of a free world's league political entity and not really a haven for clans that haven't made it.

Clan Sea Fox has always had a good relationship with the spirit cats / nova cats.

Not too sure about the other clans.

[Doy]

@Klat
Look at the Dark Age Models!

They are gray and white!

For another example look at the chamoe spec paining!
(i am a Purifiers player too and i saved me all MWDA pictures of Miniatures and sorted them by faction)

@All
I agree with Peacemaker  and in same way have Deadborder right too!
Sure is simpler to sort them by pirates (why not)

But i wonder all note the Republic as the Cats goverment! O_o
The major goverment of the Spirits Cats (Clanners) are CLAN NOVA CAT! (They order them in to the Republic)
And in the other way Kev Rosse was and Republic Senator and with this and so the cats have a certain legitimacy.
But when the Spirits Cats break free they break clan law & honor and the law of the republic.
They become a Rebel Group, maybe some call them terrorist and other freedom fighter...

Falsche Son said some things i really agree him too.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Spirits Cats are accepted as a Clan by Clan Diamond Sharks, the last Nova Cat survivors and House Marik.
As Pirates they are like the Bandits from the Dark Cast  and the Sea Fox have to anihilate them.

And the Republic can only see them as Rebels.
( For some people are rebels the same thing like Pirates and criminals. )

But in all they are later part of Marik in the Clan Potectorate.

What i don't like is they count as pirates is that some players could think they are bad guys who plunder, raped and force some worlds.
But in fact they only take some worlds to get an own home.

The Clan Potectorate with 2 Clans inside the new Free Worlds League is still a fantastic idea!

By Camoe specs i would sort themy under Marik now, or standing extra like the Foxes did now (and the foxes i would sort under diamond sharks) !!

[GhostCat]

I've been painting White mechs for quite a while.  It was a natural progression in camouflage schemes, Woodland Forrest, Midnight Blue, Desert Ground, Urban Winter.  Oh yeah, the Scarlet Knights and Crimson Guard needed lots of Red.  That they end up looking like a Sword of Light regiment is pure coincidence. 

And there were a few specials that are better off remaining Unseen. 

I still remember the Elements of Style posted by WizKids when they finally released the Nova Cats in the Dark Age game.  Even then, people were calling for the end of the Cat Combine Alliance, and the Spirit Cats were breaking away from the mystical Zen Warrior cosplay.  Now, it's Native American Ghost Dancers on the warpath that seems to be over done.

Even so, we'll keep a few of the Catgirl Battlemaid Aprons (CBAs ya know?) only because some things never go out of style and we like them.

GC

[Doy]

The Spirit Cats are not only WHITE
they are more WHITE AND GREY  ;)

Example:

[Kitsune413]

Sometimes they use tan, though it might just be dirt. Clan Sea Foxes scheme from the dark ages didn't translate over to Camospecs. But I assume it would still be, "White" and another color. Maybe not black, but I wouldn't put it past them.

[Kitsune413]

http://camospecs.com/Faction.asp?ID=188

Case in point. Compared to:

http://www.warrenborn.com/Search.php?FACTION=Clan Sea Fox

[GhostCat]

Wizkids used the secondary color to indicate the level of experience and readiness.  If the unit was mostly Gray, it was a Green unit (had less experience) and usually cost less.  At this point, I am just happy that Spirit Cats were not stuck with the Capella Green and Orange camouflage colors, or ended up as confused as the Rusty Puppies.

GC

[Klat]

I'd still like to know what the glyphs are all about with the Purifiers Cluster.