Author Topic: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060  (Read 7298 times)

ActionButler

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Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« on: 25 July 2014, 08:21:08 »
What were the common medium mechs used by the Fed Suns during and after the Invasion?  Was the Enforcer still their main mech or had they moved onto recovered designs?

Thanks!
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jklantern

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #1 on: 25 July 2014, 08:32:14 »
What were the common medium mechs used by the Fed Suns during and after the Invasion?  Was the Enforcer still their main mech or had they moved onto recovered designs?

Thanks!

The Enforcer and Centurion were two of the common ones.  Somewhere in this time period, I think they start cutting down on Dervishes, but they are also not uncommon.  Heck, I always feel like it's not really a Davion Force if there isn't an Enforcer of some kind in it.
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martian

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #2 on: 25 July 2014, 08:35:23 »
What were the common medium mechs used by the Fed Suns during and after the Invasion?  Was the Enforcer still their main mech or had they moved onto recovered designs?

Thanks!
Some typical 3050s 'Mechs:
ENF-5D Enforcer
CN9-D/CN10-B Centurion
BJ-1/2/3 Blackjack
PXH-3D Phoenix Hawk
BSW-X1 Bushwacker
DV-7D Dervish
SHD-2D2 Shadow Hawk
NGS-4S Nightsky
LNX-9Q Lynx
STH-1D Stealth
END-6Q Enfield
WVR-7D Wolverine

ActionButler

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #3 on: 25 July 2014, 08:58:31 »
Thanks, guys! 
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ActionButler

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #4 on: 25 July 2014, 09:02:33 »
Oh, and unrelated question.  I've looked everywhere that I can think of, but I haven't been able to find an answer to this - how many combat vehicles are in an IS lance?  It is four, right? 
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martian

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #5 on: 25 July 2014, 09:17:03 »
Oh, and unrelated question.  I've looked everywhere that I can think of, but I haven't been able to find an answer to this - how many combat vehicles are in an IS lance?  It is four, right?
Usually four, but the FWLM sometimes uses so-called "long platoon" consisting of six vehicles.

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #6 on: 25 July 2014, 11:21:09 »
Unsure how "common" they were (production numbers are a bit dodgy), but the Watchman and Sentry also arrived on the scene in the 50s.

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #7 on: 25 July 2014, 11:33:47 »
I believe the Watchman was manufactured in significant quantities after 3055, but only really issued to militia forces.  I'm not sure about the Sentry, but I'm guessing that the story is much the same is it was also designed as a milita mech and according to sarna first entered service in 3056, although obviously it made it's début in TRO 3060.

Incidentally, am I the only one who is bothered that the Sentry is basically just a repeat Watchman - same weight, same speed and a very similar armament?  Surely something a bit larger might have been in order (perhaps 60 tons?) to act as a "big brother" to the Watchman?

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #8 on: 25 July 2014, 13:05:35 »
Oh, and unrelated question.  I've looked everywhere that I can think of, but I haven't been able to find an answer to this - how many combat vehicles are in an IS lance?  It is four, right?
Yes, but with vehicles they usually call them "platoons" instead of "lances".
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #9 on: 25 July 2014, 14:38:42 »
Sentry, Watchman, and Enforcer

ActionButler

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #10 on: 25 July 2014, 15:52:21 »
Usually four, but the FWLM sometimes uses so-called "long platoon" consisting of six vehicles.

Thanks.  I thought so, I just wasn't sure.  I am guessing that vehicles are typically sold in packs of two just because they are cheaper to produce, then? 

Yes, but with vehicles they usually call them "platoons" instead of "lances".

I... do not know if I knew that. 


Secondary question, how many combat vehicles would be typically attached to a mech company?  Or is there no 'typical' in this situation?

Anyrate, thanks again, guys.  This is a lot of help.  It sounds like I can keep piling Enforcers into a 3059ish AFFS company as planned and still be close to being canon-accurate.
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Fallen_Raven

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #11 on: 25 July 2014, 16:00:46 »
Secondary question, how many combat vehicles would be typically attached to a mech company?  Or is there no 'typical' in this situation?

The AFFS attaches vehicles at the regimental level (or with LCTs the battalion level). How they get deployed from there is up to the unit commanders. How you organize at the gaming table is pretty open to interpretation. I typically run no more than one tank per two 'mechs, with APCs getting a free pass.

Incidentally, am I the only one who is bothered that the Sentry is basically just a repeat Watchman - same weight, same speed and a very similar armament?  Surely something a bit larger might have been in order (perhaps 60 tons?) to act as a "big brother" to the Watchman?

Since the Sentry is fluffed as being the higher tech replacement for the Watchman I'm not particularly bothered. As I recall the Sentry was created because the Watchman was useful in filling out militia formations, but the increasing availability of advanced tech made local nobles question the ability of such a basic 'mech on the modern battlefield.

It sounds like I can keep piling Enforcers into a 3059ish AFFS company as planned and still be close to being canon-accurate.

Be sure to mix in Enforcer IIIs for hole punching goodness!
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #12 on: 25 July 2014, 16:01:25 »
Thanks.  I thought so, I just wasn't sure.  I am guessing that vehicles are typically sold in packs of two just because they are cheaper to produce, then? 
Real tanks or miniatures?   ;)

Secondary question, how many combat vehicles would be typically attached to a mech company?  Or is there no 'typical' in this situation?
As a general answer: As many as needed and as available.

ActionButler

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #13 on: 25 July 2014, 16:11:38 »
Be sure to mix in Enforcer IIIs for hole punching goodness!

Now that you mention it, I can see putting one of those in the command lance.  It has pretty standard tech and doesn't venture too far away from what I'm trying to build. 

Thanks, again, on the answers to my armor-related questions.  I was planning on loading up mainly on light and medium scout vehicles, maybe throw in one or two heavy vehicles just for the show of it.  Throw in a pair of LRM carriers because... well... because LRM carriers.
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #14 on: 25 July 2014, 16:31:23 »
As a general answer: As many as needed and as available.

Are there any precedents for organized and structured coordination between mech and conventional forces besides the RCT?

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #15 on: 25 July 2014, 16:45:34 »
The Ceti Hussars, Eridani Light Horse, Comstar Divisions, and Capellan Augmented Lances for starters.  There's probably more that I forgot/didn't know about.
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #16 on: 25 July 2014, 19:18:00 »
Incidentally, am I the only one who is bothered that the Sentry is basically just a repeat Watchman - same weight, same speed and a very similar armament?  Surely something a bit larger might have been in order (perhaps 60 tons?) to act as a "big brother" to the Watchman?

I do see your point. Still, I see the Sentry as completely replacing the Watchman even though that hasn't happened. To me I am more bothered by how the Sentry is just a repeat Phoenix Hawk and am glad that the Sentry changes the armament enough to make the new design seem different. PPC vs LL, I would take the PPC. Smallpulses vs ML's, I would take the ML's but I believe the pulses do have better utility against infantry. Quad mg's and a flamer vs just double mg's...yeah I like the better anti-infantry weapons. Of course, having a 60 ton cheap heavy like a Hound would be nice to have.

Also, to the OP, see if you can look up some of the newer Enforcer variant like the one that has a Gauss Rifle and multiple backup lasers...definitely a decent direct fire support medium.
« Last Edit: 25 July 2014, 19:25:06 by FedSunsBorn »
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Colt Ward

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #17 on: 26 July 2014, 16:45:52 »
Do not forget they will also be fielding mechs purchased from the League.  Also, not all of those mechs are going to be upgraded from 3025 to 3050 standards- after all we got the 'r' later on for just those mechs.
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #18 on: 28 July 2014, 18:45:01 »
Alrighty... so after considering some of the lists thrown around in this thread, this is my first stab at a AFFS company.  Mostly focused on medium weight raiding/hit-and-run mechs (possibly thinking 1st Armored Cavalry, one of the NAIS Cadres, or the 2nd Crucis Lancers).  Like the Ghost Bear trinary that I'm putting together, I'm trying to make it two parts canon to one part whatever-minis-I-have-on-hand.  Time period is somewhere around 3058-3060.  Definitely post-Lyran secession.  Haven't decided on what precise versions each mech will be, but for now just assume that, if it could have been upgraded by the release of the Memory Core, it has been.

Victor
Awesome
Jagermech
Enforcer III

Valkyrie
Enforcer
Phoenix Hawk
Spector (is the Spector a legit AFFS mech?  Sarna says yes, so...)

Enforcer
Centurion
Blackjack
Shadow Hawk


The Victor and the Awesome are there mostly because I love the both of them.  They are, however, noticeably heavier than the rest of their company-mates.  I figure the Awesome is a viable direct fire support mech while the Victor... well... honestly, the Victor is probably non-negotiable at this point.  The Jagermech is there because, even though I have never liked it, it is a Fed Suns mech if there ever was one.  Suggestion for a replacement, though, would be so terribly welcome.  Light and medium combat vehicles will be added to back the mechs up in the same way that Elementals will be added to beef up my GB trinary.

Anyway, give the list a look and tell me what you think.  I don't have a lot of experience putting together IS formations, so advice is welcome. 

Thanks!
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #19 on: 28 July 2014, 20:41:35 »
The Spector is produced on the Lyran half of the FedCom during the time period but would probably be found in "I can justify sticking this in an AFFS formation" numbers.

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #20 on: 28 July 2014, 22:33:49 »
Well, I tend to put lances/stars together by speed . . . as such, which Enforcers are you fielding?  Several variants exist, even of the III, which will determine comments . . . if using the -4R in the 2nd lance it is the slowest machine you have . . . even the 3050 one will be the slowest, just less so.

The selection looks solid, as for the Jagermech I suggest the 7 series.  Sure they gained 5t over the previous versions & the III, but I really like the -7D for ranged power and the -7F for getting in the face.
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #21 on: 29 July 2014, 00:51:19 »
Might want to consider an Enfield in place of one Enforcer --- it's 5/8 has an LBX10 for that longer range of 18, plus for close in, you get the Large Pulse Laser.... and while not as useful as a PPC, for it's tonnage.... if you run into fast units, that extra bonus to hit at closer ranges can be useful..... plus it has 2 medium lasers, plus a small laser to back up the other guns. It gives you some good utility in close quarters, like urban settings, or canyons.... but also can be used to provide crit seeking and vehicle hunting.

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #22 on: 29 July 2014, 02:18:05 »
Anyway, give the list a look and tell me what you think.
VTR-9D Victor
AWS-9M Awesome
Jagermech CTF-3D Cataphract/MAD-5D Marauder/RFL-5D Rifleman/PTR-4D Penetrator
BJ-2/BJ-3 Blackjack


VLK-QD Valkyrie
ENF-5D Enforcer
PXH-3D Phoenix Hawk
SPR-5F Spector

ENF-6M Enforcer III
ENF-5D Enforcer
CN9-D Centurion
SHD-2D2/SHD-5M Shadow Hawk


I would suggest switching the Enforcer III from the first lance for the Blackjack from the third lance.

a) Enforcer III's 5/8 speed would be unused in the first lance, while in the third lance it would make all 'Mechs move at least 5/8.
b) Blackjack's 4/6 speed would slow down the third lance, but it would be okay in the first lance with 4/6 Awesome, Victor and Marauder

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #23 on: 29 July 2014, 07:25:16 »
The selection looks solid, as for the Jagermech I suggest the 7 series.  Sure they gained 5t over the previous versions & the III, but I really like the -7D for ranged power and the -7F for getting in the face.

I concur - whilst the Jagermech 6DG is hit's hard enough to be workable, it's still an exercise in making lemonade out of the lemon that is the 6DD.   By contrast, the 70 ton 7 series turns the Jager into something you might actually want to field in an AFFS lance...

I've been using a 7D in a Davion merc lance and whilst it's firepower isn't spectacular, it is reliable and the thing has a good amount of armour.  The 7F was just plain rude back with the old RAC/tarcomp rules - these days it's "merely" a solid brawler.

Incidentally, I also agree with Martian's reorganisation of your lances, for much the same reason - I like to organise things by speed as much as possible.  Personally I'd ditch the Awesome for a Marauder 5D or Penetrator 4D and keep the Jagermech (so long as it was a 7 series) because I don't consider the Awesome to be a particularly Davion flavoured piece of kit, but that's just me...
« Last Edit: 29 July 2014, 07:29:49 by Getz »

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #24 on: 29 July 2014, 07:59:22 »
Forget not the Stealth in all of its fast, jumpy goodness.  Still one of my favorite mechs, and prolly my all time favorite "recon" mech.
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #25 on: 29 July 2014, 13:36:51 »
You guys are great.  Thanks for the really fantastic input.

A few follow-up questions/comments, in no particular order...

The Jager.  I looked up the 7-series and, you're right, that really does look like a massive improvement.  The D would have been produced at just the right time to include in the company, too.

The rest of the command lance.  If I keep the Jager (since it is a very Davion mech), and move the Bkackjack up (because I have ALWAYS overestimated how fast the Blackjack is), what about replacing the Awesome with the Marauder, as Getz suggested.  As much as I love the Awesome, I love the Marauder more.  The only reason I left it out was because I was afraid of having too many unseen/reseen.

On that note, I left the game sometime before Project Phoenix was a thing.  Am I correct in thinking that the redesigns only apply to those mechs as they appear after 3060something and that a 3058-vintage Marauder/Shadowhawk/Phaoenix Hawk would NOT look like the updated designs?

An Axman.  Should I work one in there someplace?  Maybe instead of the Blackjack?



Anyway, thanks again, all!
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #26 on: 29 July 2014, 13:40:48 »
A key consideration to making decisions like these is the purpose of doing so, which is not clear to me.  How I'd do it for a game is different from how I'd do it for a story, and likely both are different for how I'd choose a batch of mechs to give similar paint jobs for display purposes.

I'd likely choose a Marauder or Archer over an Awesome.  Keeps to canon flavor better, and I just don't like slow assaults.  I'd likely keep the Jagermech, but if I did switch it out, it would be to a Rifleman, which I've always considered a standard Suns mech.  It often doesn't get the same respect that it did back in the early days of the game, and its fluff purpose has changed, but it would still be a good fit.

I'd be happy leaving the fast Enforcer in the command lance.  I don't see the movement wasted, I see it being the scout for the lance.  Because this lance will be going against heavier opposition, it needs a heavier scout.  But, in my experience, this works better in a story than in a game, so if the purpose is to create a game unit, I'd change it out with a slower unit.

I've read (somewhere, no idea where) that the Suns didn't worry about unit composition as much as other factions, and instead dropped whatever was available into an open slot.  It was up to the unit to figure out how to work together.  So, unlike other factions, I rarely try to optimize Suns units by speed or weight, and instead purposely mix them up.  Other factions have scout, assault, fire, and strike lances, whereas the Suns often have one of each type in the same lance.  My Suns lances are more general purpose, jack-of-all trades type affairs.
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #27 on: 29 July 2014, 14:42:28 »
An Axman.  Should I work one in there someplace?  Maybe instead of the Blackjack?
I would go probably with AXM-2N Axman. It could support its lancemates with LRMs and defend them with LPL and Hatchet. I think that in this case this version is better than pure brawlers -1N and -3S.

The Jager.  I looked up the 7-series and, you're right, that really does look like a massive improvement.  The D would have been produced at just the right time to include in the company, too.

The rest of the command lance.  If I keep the Jager (since it is a very Davion mech), and move the Bkackjack up (because I have ALWAYS overestimated how fast the Blackjack is), what about replacing the Awesome with the Marauder, as Getz suggested.  As much as I love the Awesome, I love the Marauder more.  The only reason I left it out was because I was afraid of having too many unseen/reseen.
So something like this?
VTR-9D Victor
MAD-5D Marauder
JM7-D JagerMech
AXM-2N Axman (BJ-2/3 Blackjack) 

On that note, I left the game sometime before Project Phoenix was a thing.  Am I correct in thinking that the redesigns only apply to those mechs as they appear after 3060something and that a 3058-vintage Marauder/Shadowhawk/Phaoenix Hawk would NOT look like the updated designs?
First Reseen 'Mechs debuted in 3062 or so. MAD-5D, SHD-2D2/5M or PXH-3D are classical Unseen versions.


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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #28 on: 30 July 2014, 07:50:51 »
I'd be happy leaving the fast Enforcer in the command lance.  I don't see the movement wasted, I see it being the scout for the lance.  Because this lance will be going against heavier opposition, it needs a heavier scout.  But, in my experience, this works better in a story than in a game, so if the purpose is to create a game unit, I'd change it out with a slower unit.

That was exactly my thought process for putting a fast mech in with the command lance.  For now, this company will be entirely for show purposes.  I want something to paint up and display on a shelf.  Would it be nice to be able to put them into a game if the occasion called for it?  Absolutely, but that is not my primary objective at the moment.  Right now, I'm just getting back into the game, with a target interest in painting some mechs up. 
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #29 on: 30 July 2014, 07:56:37 »
I would go probably with AXM-2N Axman. It could support its lancemates with LRMs and defend them with LPL and Hatchet. I think that in this case this version is better than pure brawlers -1N and -3S.
....
So something like this?
VTR-9D Victor
MAD-5D Marauder
JM7-D JagerMech
AXM-2N Axman (BJ-2/3 Blackjack) 

The 2N is the model I had in mind, for precisely the reasons that you outlined.  I'm thinking that the Jager and the Axman can hang back for fire support while the Victor and Marauder wade (or, jump, I suppose) into the thick of things.

By that same token, though, the BJ-2 could serve the same purpose (albeit as a direct fire support unit) with the pair of large lasers AND would probably fit a little better into the medium-weight, raiding party scheme of things.  I don't know, that slot could easily come down to a coin flip between the two... 
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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #30 on: 30 July 2014, 08:20:04 »
If your looking for fire support, I wouldn't use the Axeman.  It wastes too much tonnage on the melee weapon, IMO, for a weapon your plan hopes it never has to use.

Then again, I feel that way about most mechs with melee weapons, but especially on a 4/6 - they always seem to get killed before they get into range to use it.  Hunchback syndrome, I suppose.
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FedRatCowboy

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #31 on: 01 August 2014, 16:24:25 »
If you looking for a good Davion med weight, fire support mech, go with the Dervish. Good missle racks and secondary weapons.
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Rorke

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #32 on: 01 August 2014, 18:18:06 »
Forget not the Stealth in all of its fast, jumpy goodness.  Still one of my favorite mechs, and prolly my all time favorite "recon" mech.

Especially the 2D variant, that thing looks undergunned.....but it's not.
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FedRatCowboy

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #33 on: 08 August 2014, 16:03:52 »
If you go into the 3060's the are several good mediums that you could choose from for the FedSuns.

Here is a small list:

Phoenix Hawk -3PL, and the -6D (probably the best model out there for the P-hawk)
Shadow Hawk -5D
Griffin -6S
Wolverine -8D, and -9D
Hellspawn-7D
Chimera-1S
Sentry-04
Enforcer III-6M
Sentinal-4D
Hatchetman-6D
Uziel-2S
Dervish-8D (the best med weight fire support mech in the game. I have had alot of sucess with this one.)
Lineholder KWI-LH8
Firestarter FS9-O (omni-mech from 3058 TRO)
Strider SR1-O (omni-mech from 3058 TRO)
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Colt Ward

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Re: Fed Suns Medium Mech(s) 3050-3060
« Reply #34 on: 08 August 2014, 20:54:48 »
I thought the FS9-OB was the best PXH in the game?

The -6Mr honestly is a bit better IMO, but it lacks CASE.
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