Clans against and inner sphere lance, what would you bid?

[Scotty]

No.  In most cases, personal trials can be suspended by the commanding officer during campaign.  Furthermore, a warrior without a Bloodname can't challenge a Bloodnamed warrior without the sponsorship of another Bloodnamed warrior.  There's no way that a trial would be conducted right in front of enemy forces, either.

This is definitely not true.  It's not a formal Trial of Grievance in the first place; that requires the involvement of the Clan Grand Council.  Informal Trials of Grievance happen basically wherever.

[Liam's Ghost]

No.  In most cases, personal trials can be suspended by the commanding officer during campaign.  Furthermore, a warrior without a Bloodname can't challenge a Bloodnamed warrior without the sponsorship of another Bloodnamed warrior.  There's no way that a trial would be conducted right in front of enemy forces, either.

Bidding is  also something that Clan commanders can and do choose to suspend based on specific circumstances.  If a Star Colonel wanted to pull rank and go out for a fight, there's nothing any of his subordinates could do until after the battle, and then they really wouldn't have much grounds to challenge him unless he lost.

Star Captain Trent of clan smoke jaguar would debate some of that, having repeatedly challenged his bloodnamed commanding officer (Star Colonel Paul Moon), in one case immediately before an action was to begin, specifically to prevent that action from happening.

Star Colonel Moon was under no obligation to accept these challenges, however in the case I mention above, he did accept, and the trial between them commenced immediately. After defeating him, Star Colonel Moon ordered the action to proceed.

So there's that.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

As I recall, that was was before they'd actually gone out onto the battlefield.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

This is definitely not true.  It's not a formal Trial of Grievance in the first place; that requires the involvement of the Clan Grand Council.  Informal Trials of Grievance happen basically wherever.

Show me anywhere where it says that they actually will conduct a Trial of Grievances within weapons range of enemy forces.

[Scotty]

Show me anywhere where it says that they actually will conduct a Trial of Grievances within weapons range of enemy forces.

This is not how the burden of proof works.  You made a claim, you get to prove it.  Show me anywhere where it says as a rule that Trials cannot be conducted within sight or range of anything at all.

Since the Clans don't actually do things like declare war, especially in the Homeworlds where prior to the Invasion Zellbrigen is expected, I very much doubt that rule actually exists.

[Charistoph]

Sheesh, how the Smoke Kitties prefer to conduct their Trials mean nothing to the Hellions.  The Hellions have their own standards to look to for how it happens.

More to the point, a true Ristar would have challenged right there, unarmed.  It gets started quicker and you don't risk the machines. 

Or maybe that is too much Jade Falcon.  Admittedly, most of my knowledge of Clan Trials have to do with interactions with certain Prydeful Warriors and the Widow Killer.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

This is not how the burden of proof works.  You made a claim, you get to prove it.  Show me anywhere where it says as a rule that Trials cannot be conducted within sight or range of anything at all.

You claimed that they could happen "where ever," so that would actually put the burden of proof on you to demonstrate that they do conduct internal trials in such a way.

[Scotty]

You claimed that they could happen "where ever," so that would actually put the burden of proof on you to demonstrate that they do conduct internal trials in such a way.

My evidence is that there is no rule or tradition preventing that.  Mostly on account of the rules not exactly being written down in the first place (still counts).

Especially in the Clans, something being common sense doesn't make it true.

[Liam's Ghost]

Sheesh, how the Smoke Kitties prefer to conduct their Trials mean nothing to the Hellions.  The Hellions have their own standards to look to for how it happens.

Then by all means, tell me how the ice hellions do it.

More to the point, a true Ristar would have challenged right there, unarmed.  It gets started quicker and you don't risk the machines. 

A true ristar would know that he doesn't get to choose the form of combat when he makes the challenge.

You claimed that they could happen "where ever," so that would actually put the burden of proof on you to demonstrate that they do conduct internal trials in such a way.

You see, when I read this, I hear "I don't actually have proof of my claim, so I'm going to ask the other guy to prove me wrong."

[Liam's Ghost]

Eh, forget it, bid's closed.

Thanks all who participated.

Moderators, would it be possible to get a lock?

[Charistoph]

Then by all means, tell me how the ice hellions do it.

Wasn't saying I did, just pointed out that it could have been different.  It seemed rather different between the kitties and the turkeys, after all, and they're both rapid Crusaders.

A true ristar would know that he doesn't get to choose the form of combat when he makes the challenge.

He does if the location is already determined by the challengee.  It can be part of the bidding process, after all.  Of course, the Star Colonel usually hands the Ristar his head no matter the format, but that's beside the point.

[Liam's Ghost]

Wasn't saying I did, just pointed out that it could have been different.  It seemed rather different between the kitties and the turkeys, after all, and they're both rapid Crusaders.

He does if the location is already determined by the challengee.  It can be part of the bidding process, after all.  Of course, the Star Colonel usually hands the Ristar his head no matter the format, but that's beside the point.

So in other words, you have nothing to add?

[monbvol]

Personally I don't think the Star Colonel can force himself into the fight but honestly with the Ice Hellion's interpretation of zell his bid might actually be unbeatable without giving up all chances of victory and to be honest if he really does bid down to a Gargoyle A and only using one ER PPC the superior numbers and mobility of his opponents actually gives the Spheroids more of a chance than I think is expected.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Personally I don't think the Star Colonel can force himself into the fight but honestly with the Ice Hellion's interpretation of zell his bid might actually be unbeatable without giving up all chances of victory and to be honest if he really does bid down to a Gargoyle A and only using one ER PPC the superior numbers and mobility of his opponents actually gives the Spheroids more of a chance than I think is expected.

Heh, I made that bid assuming the Star Colonel's skills would be something on the order of 2/3.  At 0/1, I'd bet on that bid against 4 light/medium 3025tech mechs every day of the week.  And twice on Sundays.

[monbvol]

I may be over valuing the mobility advantage of the Phoenix Hawk LAMs but with only one gun even if it is in the arm the Spheroids should actually have little trouble using flanking tactics and getting into favorable positions for it.

[Colt Ward]

I think the best revelation of how the Ice Hellions conduct themselves in trials is from Icestorm and the FM blurb about how Taney was finally thrown out.  Conner Rood makes it sound like the ristar would call out the Star Colonel right there and get into a fist fight.  I think the Bloodnamed vs non-Bloodnamed also ties back to how Vlad won his way to being Khan of the Crusader Wolves- but again, that is not the Hellions.

[Scotty]

I may be over valuing the mobility advantage of the Phoenix Hawk LAMs but with only one gun even if it is in the arm the Spheroids should actually have little trouble using flanking tactics and getting into favorable positions for it.

You almost certainly are.  LAMs are not going to hit a damn thing in AirMech mode with a regular IS pilot (minimum +3 AMM, probably +4 if you're actually going for a flank), and if they're not in AirMech mode they are a significantly more fragile and actually slightly slower Phoenix Hawk.

[Daryk]

I don't think the Commando can take more than two shots, the others should need only a few each to kill, and with a 0 gunner, the ER PPC should be connecting every turn.

[Liam's Ghost]

Since I shut the whole thing down, I see no sin in saying that the commander's skills were chosen to make him almost comparable to the player characters he would be fighting.

[Daryk]

Oooh... Extreme Range Rules?  >:D

[Liam's Ghost]

We usually use a whole bunch of advanced rules, including extreme range and line of sight range rules.

[Daryk]

Well then... looks like it's a bad day to be a Star Colonel...  ::)

[monbvol]

You almost certainly are.  LAMs are not going to hit a damn thing in AirMech mode with a regular IS pilot (minimum +3 AMM, probably +4 if you're actually going for a flank), and if they're not in AirMech mode they are a significantly more fragile and actually slightly slower Phoenix Hawk.

The trouble is even if they can't hit they should still have little trouble using terrain to setup for good positions for when they do want to engage and force the Star Colonel to turn his back to an enemy, especially if he is using only one weapon.

Well then... looks like it's a bad day to be a Star Colonel...  ::)

I will admit there are certain things that make me think this will still be an interesting fight despite all the advantages the Spheroids do have.  Only the Griffin has enough durability to not have to worry too much about taking a hit or two and is also the only Spheroid with weapons able to use Line of Sight rules so the Star Colonel really should be able to cause some damage.

Yet 4v1 all absolutely unfair skill level opponents, yeah it should be mostly a question of how much damage before the Star Colonel does before going down.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Hey Liam's Ghost you willing to entertain bids from the peanut gallery based on knowledge that everyone involved is gonna be skill 0-1ish on gunnery?  I presume the orginal goal was to crowdsource an OPFOR for your players to face.  If you still want that I think we'd come up with better bids than those purposely made in an "in character"/blind to your PCs capabilities sort of way were.

[Liam's Ghost]

The matter is closed.