Author Topic: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III (Read 88481 times)

Kojak · « **Reply #240 on:** 20 March 2019, 08:03:43 »

Quote from: Drewbacca on 20 March 2019, 07:22:19

I am not sure if their yard is mobile, is it?

My thinking is that they salvaged stuff from what was left of the naval repair yards at the Dark Nebula and Star's End and put something together on-site, in the Vantaa system itself. Not a full-fledged facility, mind you, just the skeletal version needed to get a single wrecked WarShip back up and running on a multi-decade timescale (a la what the Taurians did with the TCW Vandenburg).

Maelwys · « **Reply #241 on:** 20 March 2019, 10:40:41 »

Surprisingly the Cage's Pride doesn't have its destruction directly stated, just things like wilting under the Jade Falcon firepower and that they lost their orbital support.

It also says that only a Cluster escaped (all of this on page 85 of Wars of Reaving btw). That could be taken as "Out all all the forces, including the WarShips, only a Cluster of troops escaped." Or not. You also have to ask how the Cluster of troops escaped and jumped away...

As for the original question, I assume it could be salvageable, especially since they didn't go through any real effort to describe why it wouldn't be. After all, the combat it went through was simple combat. Its not like it was ripped in half by something jumping nearby, etc etc.

Weren't the Ravens able to salvage some of their WarShips without any mobile facilities? If so, the Horses should be able to as well. You don't need to repair it completely in the field, just enough to make sure it can survive jumping to your repair facilities.

edit
Just checked Jihad Secrets and it lists the Cage's Pride as actually destroyed, so that's something. But I think the point still stands, it didn't really die in anyway that would make me think it was completely unrepairable.
/edit

Drewbacca · « **Reply #242 on:** 20 March 2019, 15:19:46 »

I am not the best painter, especially at this scale, but I am working on a Kappa Galaxy unit. Unfortunately the photo is too large. :(

Drewbacca · « **Reply #243 on:** 20 March 2019, 15:53:54 »

Now that I am painting them, I am not sure I am really getting into the colors. :(

Kojak · « **Reply #244 on:** 03 April 2019, 05:13:10 »

Fellow Horses: do you have any recommendations for the best Horse-available fighters to use as bombers?

marauder648 · « **Reply #245 on:** 03 April 2019, 07:51:09 »

Kirghiz C. Guns, and two points of Elementals :p

truetanker · « **Reply #246 on:** 03 April 2019, 09:04:13 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 03 April 2019, 07:51:09

Kirghiz C. Guns, and two points of Elementals :p

Aye, but supported by Xerexs fighters.

TT

Sjhernan3060 · « **Reply #247 on:** 11 April 2019, 11:32:51 »

Hello horses could someone tell me more about contract bidding? Both in universe how common did the horses do this during the invasion era? How do you work it into your games?

truetanker · « **Reply #248 on:** 12 April 2019, 12:42:45 »

Quickway is to offer support in the form of using your clan forces in battle for a piece of salvage or tech that may be harder for you to achieve alone.

Whither it's supplies, orbital insertion, defense or attack...

TT

Sjhernan3060 · « **Reply #249 on:** 12 April 2019, 13:38:36 »

Quote from: truetanker on 12 April 2019, 12:42:45

Quickway is to offer support in the form of using your clan forces in battle for a piece of salvage or tech that may be harder for you to achieve alone.

Whither it's supplies, orbital insertion, defense or attack...

TT

Do the horses always make the offer first?

rebs · « **Reply #250 on:** 12 April 2019, 14:09:25 »

Somebody has to.

Without a party making an offer, it is difficult to get a contract bid to come together. The Horses made their offer to the Coyotes and ran the operation against Kindraa Smyth-Jewel to boot.

Sjhernan3060 · « **Reply #251 on:** 12 April 2019, 16:56:56 »

Quote from: rebs on 12 April 2019, 14:09:25

Somebody has to.

Without a party making an offer, it is difficult to get a contract bid to come together. The Horses made their offer to the Coyotes and ran the operation against Kindraa Smyth-Jewel to boot.

Thank you for the info. If for example ilkhan osis had reached out to malavai fletcher the ardent crusader to contract some horses to drive off serpent how would that be arraigned do the horses always get operational control?

Drewbacca · « **Reply #252 on:** 16 April 2019, 12:40:14 »

Herr is a hypothetical. Say the Horses never lose Tokasha. Does anything change?

truetanker · « **Reply #253 on:** 16 April 2019, 14:18:23 »

We take our love for Clan Share Bear elsewhere?

TT

Tyler Jorgensson · « **Reply #254 on:** 16 April 2019, 14:21:42 »

Maybe depending on the severity of the damage (if the Ghost Bear Khan is still killed) the Horses and the Bears might become allies as they both adopt Warden mentalities during the invasion. Maybe the Crusaders don't get a majority in the Hell Horses and then they work together as close as the Ravens and Bears.

Just a hope thrown out there.

Kojak · « **Reply #255 on:** 04 June 2019, 05:20:41 »

Given that we've seen the Horses use some of the Society ProtoMechs, like the Sprite and Hobgoblin, do you all think it would be out of line for the Horses to deploy Minotaur Zs in the modern era?

Maelwys · « **Reply #256 on:** 04 June 2019, 18:19:08 »

I wouldn't see why they wouldn't be willing to field them. The Minotaur Z doesn't field any real Society tech, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't have fielded them during the Wars of Reaving, much less the modern era when there's no real reason to care.

Now whether they would bother to produce them when they have their own variants...

Kojak · « **Reply #257 on:** 05 June 2019, 04:13:44 »

I bring it up because I'm toying with the notion of a Nova built around five Baliuses, two Points of Minotaur Zs, and three Points of some other ProtoMech (I'm leaning toward Procyon-Qs at the moment but I'm still not sure). Feels like that could be pretty devastating in a way most opponents wouldn't see coming, since most people tend to grossly underestimate the Balius.

Maelwys · « **Reply #258 on:** 05 June 2019, 08:00:31 »

Seems like a good idea. The extra range on the iHMLs compared to the P2's iHSLs will help, and the speed with the IJJs is nice and lets them maneuver better.

Not sure about the Q's. I'll have to check them out later.

Maelwys · « **Reply #259 on:** 06 June 2019, 04:00:34 »

The Procyon Quad would work well since it can keep up with the Balius and can be used to crit seek while the Minotaurs open up holes. Seems like a pretty nasty combination to face against.

Natasha Kerensky · « **Reply #260 on:** 06 June 2019, 12:04:36 »

Quote from: Maelwys on 06 June 2019, 04:00:34

The Procyon Quad would work well since it can keep up with the Balius...

I like to run Procyon Quads in front of Enyos and alongside or in front of Notoses (Noti?), depending on the configuration. Good mix of superior capabilities at 6/9 speed for second line or non-mech forces.

Throw in some Buraqs and A5 and/or some Elemental (APGR) or Elemental II suits riding side-saddle on the Notoses, and it’s a pretty complete force that can take on most anything except in the worst terrain.

Kojak · « **Reply #261 on:** 09 June 2019, 22:57:56 »

A hypothetical Supernova I'm toying with. Let me know what y'all think.

Nova Alpha
Balius P
Balius P
Balius P
Balius P
Balius P
Minotaur Z
Minotaur Z
Procyon-Q
Procyon-Q
Procyon-Q
Minotaur Z
Minotaur Z
Procyon-Q
Procyon-Q
Procyon-Q
Minotaur Z
Minotaur Z
Procyon-Q
Procyon-Q
Procyon-Q
Minotaur Z
Minotaur Z
Procyon-Q
Procyon-Q
Procyon-Q
Minotaur Z
Minotaur Z
Procyon-Q
Procyon-Q
Procyon-Q

Nova Beta
Notos B
Notos B
Notos B
Notos B
Notos B
Notos C
Notos C
Notos C
Notos C
Notos C
Gnome (Cavalry) Point
Gnome (Cavalry) Point
Gnome (Cavalry) Point
Gnome (Cavalry) Point
Gnome (Cavalry) Point

Star Gamma
Enyo Strike Tank
Enyo Strike Tank
Enyo Strike Tank
Enyo Strike Tank
Enyo Strike Tank
Garuda Heavy VTOL
Garuda Heavy VTOL
Garuda Heavy VTOL
Garuda Heavy VTOL
Garuda Heavy VTOL

I'm playing with the idea of maybe swapping the Garudas for Badger-Cs and making the third Star a Nova as well (possibly battlesuits, possibly heavy jump infantry), but the Garudas do have the advantage of making it much easier to spot opponents at a distance At any rate, I like the idea that all loaded up, the whole Trinary can keep a uniform 6/9 speed going.

Natasha Kerensky · « **Reply #262 on:** 10 June 2019, 08:17:17 »

First off, I spit on the Balius. What an ugly design conceptually and in terms of the art. Ptooey! But that’s my problem, not yours.

Will the Baliuses (Balii?) maintain 6/9 with the Minotaurs mounted? If not, then the formation will actually move at 5/8 or 4/6 or whatever when loaded up.

I might vary the Balius and Notos configs more. Between the Balius P and the Notos C, you have a full electronics suite (ECM, Probe, TAG) in each point in those novas. Maybe you want that given the number of BA and protos to support in each point. But if not, it’s a lot of tonnage spent on duplicative capabilities for each nova.

I’ve used the Garuda for flavor in Horse TO&Es but doubt its utility given its slow speed for a VTOL. For campaigns or games, I’d buy Balacs off the Foxes for fire support on a reasonably fast VTOL platform. But that would ruin the common 6/9 speed your were going for.

I like the idea of Badgers and unarmored infantry for Gamma. You’d have every kind of nova (proto, BA, infantry) in one supernova trinary, which is cool. Without knowing how this fits into a cluster, I’d go with the Badgers and infantry if you dropped the VTOLs.

Overall, I really like this supernova trinary. Really overwhelming capabilities and numbers within the Horse mounted cavalry framework. I especially like Alpha’s mixing of Procyon Qs on the ground with another proto design riding mounted in the same point. I’ll almost certainly borrow that.

Kojak · « **Reply #263 on:** 10 June 2019, 13:58:14 »

Quote from: Natasha Kerensky on 10 June 2019, 08:17:17

First off, I spit on the Balius. What an ugly design conceptually and in terms of the art. Ptooey! But that’s my problem, not yours.

Oh man, you're missing out! The Balius is actually secretly a great 'Mech, and here's why.

Quote from: Natasha Kerensky on 10 June 2019, 08:17:17

Will the Baliuses (Balii?) maintain 6/9 with the Minotaurs mounted? If not, then the formation will actually move at 5/8 or 4/6 or whatever when loaded up.

Yes; they're nine tons each and the Balius being an Omni subtracts three from their carrying weight, and if the carried units are less than 25% of the carrier's weight, there's no MP loss.

(Also, re: Balii...it's only the 'i' ending if it's Latin [which is why it's octopuses rather than octopi, for example], and Balius is Greek, so it's just the standard 'es' plural)

Quote from: Natasha Kerensky on 10 June 2019, 08:17:17

I might vary the Balius and Notos configs more. Between the Balius P and the Notos C, you have a full electronics suite (ECM, Probe, TAG) in each point in those novas. Maybe you want that given the number of BA and protos to support in each point. But if not, it’s a lot of tonnage spent on duplicative capabilities for each nova.

Point well taken, I will give that due consideration. My main thought with the Notos combo was to load up the Bs with semi-guided rounds and use the Cs to TAG for them, but perhaps a bit more variety would make the force more well-rounded overall, especially since the remaining ranged punch is really just coming from the Garudas and the LPLs on the Enyos, and those are arguably the most vulnerable part of the Trinary.

Quote from: Natasha Kerensky on 10 June 2019, 08:17:17

I like the idea of Badgers and unarmored infantry for Gamma. You’d have every kind of nova (proto, BA, infantry) in one supernova trinary, which is cool. Without knowing how this fits into a cluster, I’d go with the Badgers and infantry if you dropped the VTOLs.

Like I said, it is verrrry tempting. It's very much a question of pure utility (on the VTOL side of the scale) versus the sheer pleasure of variety (which is certainly not without its own merits).

Quote from: Natasha Kerensky on 10 June 2019, 08:17:17

I especially like Alpha’s mixing of Procyon Qs on the ground with another proto design riding mounted in the same point. I’ll almost certainly borrow that.

Yeah, I was very pleased with myself when I hit upon that. Borrow away, by all means.

Natasha Kerensky · « **Reply #264 on:** 10 June 2019, 14:24:48 »

Quote from: Kojak on 10 June 2019, 13:58:14

Oh man, you're missing out! The Balius is actually secretly a great 'Mech...

Oh, I know the Balius was designed to take advantage of the quad squat in Clan trials and all. Not a bad idea.

But conceptually I can’t get past the laser anus that appears on multiple configurations, nor the awkward/decidedly non-military/fantastical ProtoMech-ish artwork.

A “Balius II” with some different design choices and better art would be great for me. But that’s just me.

I will say that, given its handcrafted and totemic nature, five Baliuses in a single star seems unlikely. But I know that’s not necessarily what you’re going for in Tau.

Quote

Yes; they're nine tons each and the Balius being an Omni subtracts three from their carrying weight, and if the carried units are less than 25% of the carrier's weight, there's no MP loss.

Good. Awesome. Then I’m definitely stealing this.

Edit: The Minotaur P2/Procyon Q combo could mechanize on a lot of classic Horse OmniMechs like the Nova, Stormcrow and Hellbringer (although the latter might be more about augmenting mech armor than deploying protos).

I also noticed that, in theory, the Horses could get hold of the Ravens’ Gorgon 5, which is advertised with Streaks (SRM or LRM is unclear) and Magclamps in TRO3150. I don’t think the RS ever came out for that, so the design specifics are probably uncertain. But the Gorgon 5 may be a better option than the Minotaur P2.

There’s also a Raven Cecerops with Magclamps, but I don’t really see the point given the Cecerops inherent speed. And also whatever Hobgoblins the Horses got from the Homeworlds (meh).

Would also be interesting to run this nova with different mobile protomechs on the ground, like Rocs at 5/8 or Satyrs at 7/11.

Quote

Point well taken, I will give that due consideration. My main thought with the Notos combo was to load up the Bs with semi-guided rounds and use the Cs to TAG for them, but perhaps a bit more variety would make the force more well-rounded overall, especially since the remaining ranged punch is really just coming from the Garudas and the LPLs on the Enyos, and those are arguably the most vulnerable part of the Trinary.

I forgot to say that I also liked how you mixed five long-range configurations of the Notos for fire support and five short-ranged Notos configurations for BA transport in Beta. It’s almost a self-contained trinary. Good stuff.

Maelwys · « **Reply #265 on:** 10 June 2019, 22:21:20 »

Looks like a pretty brutal Supernova.

I'm kind of curious as to how the Garuda performs, though I suspect once your force manages to close with the enemy, they're going to have something to think about other than shooting at VTOLs hanging out further away. I do wonder if its really all that much better than the Donar.

Kojak · « **Reply #266 on:** 14 June 2019, 14:25:17 »

Well, I haven't had the chance to use them yet myself, but it seems like the chin turret would make it a lot easier to stay at max range while keeping the TMMs up.

Kojak · « **Reply #267 on:** 21 June 2019, 05:31:26 »

Lately I've been toying with the idea of scaling the Nova concept up to the Cluster scale -- which is to say, creating a Cluster in which every single Star is a Nova of some kind. I've got some notions around how I'd like to structure it -- essentially, it would consist of four Trinaries that have one Nova each based off of 'Mechs, QuadVees and tanks, along with various pairings of battlesuits, ProtoMechs and conventional infantry as suits the unit, rounded out with a Binary or Trinary of ASFs paired with BA -- but I'm still at a bit of a loss for what to call it. The best I've come up with is Mechanized Nova Cluster, but that sounds kinda redundant.

Foxx Ital · « **Reply #268 on:** 21 June 2019, 06:16:53 »

Quote from: Kojak on 21 June 2019, 05:31:26

Lately I've been toying with the idea of scaling the Nova concept up to the Cluster scale -- which is to say, creating a Cluster in which every single Star is a Nova of some kind. I've got some notions around how I'd like to structure it -- essentially, it would consist of four Trinaries that have one Nova each based off of 'Mechs, QuadVees and tanks, along with various pairings of battlesuits, ProtoMechs and conventional infantry as suits the unit, rounded out with a Binary or Trinary of ASFs paired with BA -- but I'm still at a bit of a loss for what to call it. The best I've come up with is Mechanized Nova Cluster, but that sounds kinda redundant.

Cluster Nova or Nova Cluster, Keep it simple.

Natasha Kerensky · « **Reply #269 on:** 21 June 2019, 08:13:18 »

Quote from: Kojak on 21 June 2019, 05:31:26

Lately I've been toying with the idea of scaling the Nova concept up to the Cluster scale -- which is to say, creating a Cluster in which every single Star is a Nova of some kind.

Going off Sarna’s take on Crusader Clans, every ground star in most/all Horse clusters is a nova, either mech/BA or vehicle/infantry.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Hell%27s_Horses_Touman

Quote

I've got some notions around how I'd like to structure it -- essentially, it would consist of four Trinaries that have one Nova each based off of 'Mechs, QuadVees and tanks, along with various pairings of battlesuits, ProtoMechs and conventional infantry as suits the unit, rounded out with a Binary or Trinary of ASFs paired with BA

That sounds like the Goliath Scorpion Mixed Services Trinaries in the 4th Striker Cluster from the old Clan Wolf SB. But instead of a star each of mechs, BA, and fighters, you have a nova each of mechs/BA, quadvees/protos, and vehicles/infantry.

Toughest part is that there are only a couple canon omni-quadvees and only a few magclamped protos available to the Horses. Could get repetitive across four nova trinaries.

Quote

but I'm still at a bit of a loss for what to call it. The best I've come up with is Mechanized Nova Cluster, but that sounds kinda redundant.

I’d use that word “Mixed”. Mixed Cavalry Cluster or Mixed Mechanized Cluster. To the latter, you could add weight descriptors, like Mixed Mechanized Striker Cluster or Mixed Mechanized Assault Cluster.