Author Topic: What new technology for 3150  (Read 80275 times)

Fallen_Raven

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #150 on: 10 August 2011, 20:13:55 »
...No, RL laser-guided artillery.  My understanding is that american battleships use a helo to spot over the horizon for them - but it was Tom Clancy or something.  Do they even exist?

They exist, but why bother when you can use GPS or inertial guided rounds. For the most part laser guided munitions are becoming outdated.

And why use the main guns on a battleship when you can fire a cruise missile from a sub, or launch bombers from a carrier? Anything in modern warfare doesn't translate well because Battletech is about feild warfare rather than assemetric attacks or "police actions. Different tools for different jobs and such.
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Nebfer

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #151 on: 10 August 2011, 23:49:23 »
...No, RL laser-guided artillery SHELLS.  My understanding is that american battleships use a helo to spot over the horizon for their main guns - but it was Tom Clancy or something.  Do they even exist?

Yes they do in fact the B-tech is named after the real life one, being the M712 Copperhead.

rlbell

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #152 on: 11 August 2011, 02:06:17 »
...No, RL laser-guided artillery SHELLS.  My understanding is that american battleships use a helo to spot over the horizon for their main guns - but it was Tom Clancy or something.  Do they even exist?

They would have been based on the M172 Copperhead guided explosive round, for the 155mm howitzer.  The battleship version would have been a saboted eight inch round fired from the 16 inch guns.  As keeping the battleships in commission was beginning to fallout of favor, the 8" version never got past the design study stage. 

The Copperhead was fired 90 times in Desert Storm, and a few times in the invasion of Iraq.  It has a minimum range of 3km and a maximum range of 16km (7 to 30 mapboards).
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #153 on: 11 August 2011, 10:44:15 »
For Autocannons, it could be a simple reordering of them into more sensible lines.
Long Caliber, Medium Caliber, and Short caliber this affects the range and the tonnage of the weapons. (replacing Light and HV cannons with an easier to understand system for new players) LBX should be merged wtih the other specialty ammos available to ACs, and RAC and UAC should be merged into a multicannon system with various multiple fire being available for spending more tonnage.

So for instance a 4 barrel Long Caliber autoCannon 10 coudl fire up to 4 rounds in a turn, and would have the longest range available to the AC-10s. If firing singly it coudl fire specialty rounds. A single barrel Short caliber AC-10 coudl fire a single round only, and would have the shortest range available for an AC-10

Various equipment would boost the performance, for example a recoil stabilizer would give better cluster performance to guns firing multiple rounds.

I totally agree that SOMEthing needs to be done with autocannons. While the fluff around these 'underdog'systems is neat, they're just not favored anymore. I love the idea of making LBX just a munition. One of the benifts of having AC is the variation of ammuniton. The weapon can adapt to different scenarios at the cost of dependence of logistics. Combining the UAC and RAC should happen as well. Just make the number shots varey for each weapon. RAC2, 8shots. RAC5,6shots. RAC10. 3-4 shots, RAC20,2-3 shots. As for the range difference Just give Stanard AC longer range than RAC.

I wish they implemented some thing like the AC's though to energy weapons.

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It just makes it harder to implent new weapons with "large", or "Heavy". Better to have Laser300, Laser500, Laser800, or LaserER500. (numbers are dmg with 00,FYI) When MICRO lasers came about i crapped a CAR! Are we going to get Nanolasers, or Picolasers next?

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  (lol, low yield tactical nukes to make you REALLY appreicate AMS, AAMS.)

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #154 on: 11 August 2011, 12:05:48 »
A brand new series of AC might be interesting... Herb has stated he wants to make new tech that's strictly better than what's currently available (at least I think I read that).

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rlbell

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #155 on: 11 August 2011, 12:20:25 »
A brand new series of AC might be interesting... Herb has stated he wants to make new tech that's strictly better than what's currently available (at least I think I read that).

There is electro-thermal chemical propulsion.  The chemical reaction of the propellant is controlled by an electric current, so the barrel can be kept at optimum pressure to maximise muzzle velocity.  the other advantage is that the propellant is very insensitive and may not explode without the current.  So we get AC's that approach gauss velocities with non-explosive ammo and non-explosive guns.  HVAC ranges from standard AC's
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Moonsword

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #156 on: 11 August 2011, 12:29:07 »
And energy weapon heat loads for things that need ammo.

Carbon Elasmobranch

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #157 on: 11 August 2011, 12:30:39 »
There is electro-thermal chemical propulsion.  The chemical reaction of the propellant is controlled by an electric current, so the barrel can be kept at optimum pressure to maximise muzzle velocity.  the other advantage is that the propellant is very insensitive and may not explode without the current.  So we get AC's that approach gauss velocities with non-explosive ammo and non-explosive guns.  HVAC ranges from standard AC's

There's nothing to suggest that autocannons don't already work like that.  Given the descriptions of the naval autocannons, it's quite probably that they already do, and that the explosions are a byproduct of getting a projectile up to a sufficient speed that it can reasonably strike a fast target dozens of kilometers away.

Khymerion

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #158 on: 11 August 2011, 12:59:25 »
And energy weapon heat loads for things that need ammo.

I wouldn't mind that honestly in light of the extended range of things these days.   Doubling or even tripling the head of the existing low end (2s and 5s) to get something better wouldn't be killer honestly...  or at least say the HV ACs get refined over a few decades to a degree that finally gets rid of the explodes on a 2.  Keep the smoke, that's fun!  We already have now broken rapid fire, shot guns, and lights...  a reliable 'ER' autocannon would be nice.  Let the stock and lights labor on as the specialty ammo carriers, just having a reliable vehicle answer to ER energy weapon ranges without turning to one of the monster gauss rifles isn't too much to ask.
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BirdofPrey

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #159 on: 11 August 2011, 13:53:52 »
I'd like to see improved reactive and reflective ammo that doesn't suffer as much against other types of damage.

Something else that might be interesting would be energy weapons that fire multiple times like UACs and RACs, or missile launchers that can fire at multiple targets.

Red Pins

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #160 on: 11 August 2011, 19:51:23 »
They exist, but why bother when you can use GPS or inertial guided rounds. For the most part laser guided munitions are becoming outdated.

BECAUSE!  We have the Sniper, Thumper, and Long Tom!  And even better, they are TAG-guided, LIKE ARROW IV's.  Better yet, I expect their rounds to be cheaper than the artillery missiles, AND they outrange Arrow IVs to boot!

I totally agree that SOMEthing needs to be done with autocannons. While the fluff around these 'underdog'systems is neat, they're just not favored anymore.

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Moonsword

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #161 on: 11 August 2011, 22:54:03 »
BECAUSE!  We have the Sniper, Thumper, and Long Tom!  And even better, they are TAG-guided, LIKE ARROW IV's.  Better yet, I expect their rounds to be cheaper than the artillery missiles, AND they outrange Arrow IVs to boot!

And all of them are both less powerful and currently significantly harder to come by than homing Arrow IVs.  Yes, including the Long Tom, which is every bit as expensive as the Arrow IV round.

Red Pins

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #162 on: 12 August 2011, 00:41:13 »
And all of them are both less powerful and currently significantly harder to come by than homing Arrow IVs.  Yes, including the Long Tom, which is every bit as expensive as the Arrow IV round.

...Oh, damn.  I haven't been able to check that. Actually, it occured to me later that the effort to make artillery tubes would be much more than the rockets.
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Khymerion

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #163 on: 12 August 2011, 02:49:10 »
And all of them are both less powerful and currently significantly harder to come by than homing Arrow IVs.  Yes, including the Long Tom, which is every bit as expensive as the Arrow IV round.

How about a 'cruise missile' with a target-able Arrow-esque warhead instead of just a dead reckoning launch that moves about as fast as an elderly old man (ensuring even a speed 1/2 unit won't be anywhere in the same area code of the target hex) and thus only useful for explaining why we don't see a bunch of castle brians everywhere?
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Moonsword

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #164 on: 12 August 2011, 10:07:33 »
How about a 'cruise missile' with a target-able Arrow-esque warhead instead of just a dead reckoning launch that moves about as fast as an elderly old man (ensuring even a speed 1/2 unit won't be anywhere in the same area code of the target hex) and thus only useful for explaining why we don't see a bunch of castle brians everywhere?

The fundamental problem there isn't the accuracy, it's the flight speed, but they're useful for hitting just about any sort of temporary emplacement.  Suddenly having a couple of CM/50s slam into someone's base is going to be a massive disruption, especially if you aim at the barracks/tent area or manage to nail someone's ammo dump.  The cruise missiles obviously aren't intended for being fired into an ongoing tactical engagement.

As for Castles Brian, they're not erected everywhere because most factions have neither the technology nor the resources.  Not much of a point to it in a lot of cases, either.  Cruise missiles had nothing to do with that - by the time they came along, the heyday of the Castle Brian was nearly three centuries gone.

Onisuzume

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #165 on: 12 August 2011, 11:24:38 »
Quote
"Wow, thats big, what about the Small laser?
"Thats about 500lbs."
Yes, very nice.
Except that BT uses the Metric System, so that'd be 500kg.
About twice as heavy as what you say.
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It just makes it harder to implent new weapons with "large", or "Heavy". Better to have Laser300, Laser500, Laser800, or LaserER500. (numbers are dmg with 00,FYI) When MICRO lasers came about i crapped a CAR! Are we going to get Nanolasers, or Picolasers next?
There's Intermediate Lasers in fanon.
Its a step between medium and large lasers. http://www.solaris7.com/Fiction/FictionInfo.asp?ID=796
IS-tech only, though.

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KILZIG

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #166 on: 17 August 2011, 00:06:39 »
Yes, very nice.
Except that BT uses the Metric System, so that'd be 500kg.
About twice as heavy as what you say.There's Intermediate Lasers in fanon.
Its a step between medium and large lasers. http://www.solaris7.com/Fiction/FictionInfo.asp?ID=796
IS-tech only, though.

Yeah i really never knew until i had to think about it. Wasn't sure is a ton was a  'ton' or a 'tonne'. Thanks for clearing that up. Im actually aware of this Fanon. (I also like the idea of AC/15.) I was just making the suggestion of renaming the lasers so it makes it more sensable and easier for catalst to make what ever energy weapon they want instead of "smaller than large, but  bigger than intermediate" lasers, or "Extra Extra Large Laser".


Onisuzume

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #167 on: 17 August 2011, 11:54:31 »
Its common sense, really, when Battle Armour and such all use Kilograms for the weight of things.

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Previn

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #168 on: 17 August 2011, 13:44:38 »
Honestly IS tech needs to catching up to Clan stuff.

The clans have had their advanced lasers, missiles and PPCs since at least 2854 (reference the Coyotl). Since the Exodus happened in 2784, and then a second exodus in 2801, that means that the clans seem to have pocket wizards and the IS are intellectual morons.

In the span of roughly 70 years, or 53 years, the clans created laser weapons and missiles that were more than twice as effective as their IS counter parts. The IS, even ignoring everything up to the Helm core, still gives from 3037 to 3150 or roughly 113 years, including have examples of clan laser tech from 3050 onward (i.e. 100 years), to have played catch up to the clan laser tech which has basically stalled since 2801.

Sid

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #169 on: 17 August 2011, 15:21:42 »
Honestly IS tech needs to catching up to Clan stuff.

The clans have had their advanced lasers, missiles and PPCs since at least 2854 (reference the Coyotl). Since the Exodus happened in 2784, and then a second exodus in 2801, that means that the clans seem to have pocket wizards and the IS are intellectual morons.

In the span of roughly 70 years, or 53 years, the clans created laser weapons and missiles that were more than twice as effective as their IS counter parts. The IS, even ignoring everything up to the Helm core, still gives from 3037 to 3150 or roughly 113 years, including have examples of clan laser tech from 3050 onward (i.e. 100 years), to have played catch up to the clan laser tech which has basically stalled since 2801.

By 3050, the I.S- on it's own, was able to reproduce most of the lost Battlemech technologies of the Star League that they had lost to the succession wars. (XL Engines, Ferro-Fibrous armour, double heatsinks, ER Large Lasers, LB-X 10s, UAC 5s, etc.)
 
By 3055, the I.S was producing its own Battle Armour, ER and Pulse Small and Medium lasers, SSRM 4s and 6 racks, the Lbx 2,5, and 20, the Ultra 2,10 and 20, and all technology that the Star League never quite achieved.

By 3060, they could produce Clan technology (See Maximum Tech) and had working prototypes of X-Pulse Lasers, Hyper Velocity Autocannons, Light Autocannons, Angel ECM, Light Engines CASE II etc.  -all technologies that significantly surpassed the Star League era.  In additional, they had developed entirely new weapons such as Light and Heavy Gauss Rifles, C3, Stealth Armour (that is arguably better than Null-Sig), stealth armour for BA (that was the basis for the void-sig) that puts the Chameleon light shield to shame, as well as things such as Blue Shield, XXL engines, Reflective armour, Tandem Charge SRMs and LRMs, and Extended Range LRMs.  Most of which was completely innovative and puts the Clans to shame in that field (The Clans are typically limited to making improvements of existing technologies).  Don't forget the Direct Neural Interface from the NAIS...

By 3067 we've got technologies that arguably surpass their Clan counterparts (MMLs and Plasma Rifles) as well as gear the Star League never even dreamed of- C3i, Heavy PPCs, Light PPCs, etc.

By 3075, the I.S are producing Clan grade Prototypes (XTROs)

Hell, the Clans showed up in 3050- the I.S took less than a decade to begin churning out their very own Omnimechs (Draconis Combine comes to mind.  By 3058, they had Omnimechs in full production and on the front lines.  This means no later than '54 or '55 they had working prototypes).

It's not just knowledge.  You don't take a Clan ER PPC, open it up and say 'Gee, well that's how it's done...wow, we're stupid'.

If you go back in time to Apollo 11's moon landing- where all of NASA's equipment could be summed up by today's pocket calculator, and gave them an Intel i7 Processor...do you really think they could replicate it within a couple of years?  They didn't have the knowledge back then to even conceive a microprocessor, let alone the facilities to create one from the 1970s.  We're seeing the same thing here.  There's far more than just the technology of the weapon- there's the materials that go into it, the refinement, the infrastructure (The Clans brought their own facilities to the I.S, and have to convert I.S factories up to Clan grade before they can produce Clan 'mechs, remember?)

 To use the CPU example, modern day (Clans) introduced a modern microprocessor to the 1950s (I.S).  Within 5 years, they were producing the equivalent to the 1970s processors (basic Star League) and within 10 years they were producing early 1990s (advanced beyond the Star League).  They could also produce modern CPUs (Clan tech) but only by hand and at great cost.  Within approximately 15 years, the I.S has narrowed the gap so much, I'd say they were mass producing the equivalent  of early 2000s CPUs. 

If the vitriol about the Dark Age Era is to be believed, and based on the XTROs, the I.S will likely be producing Clantech by 3100.
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Chris24601

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #170 on: 17 August 2011, 16:47:29 »
If the vitriol about the Dark Age Era is to be believed, and based on the XTROs, the I.S will likely be producing Clantech by 3100.
At which point it should probably cease to be called Clantech and instead just be general equipment in any sort of 3150 TRO. The less efficient 3050-era Inner Sphere versions could then be relabeled as "Primative" models (i.e. Primative XL Engines, Primative Ferro-Fibrous, et cetera).

Actually, I think the thing I'd most want to see in the form of new tech for 3150 are a new set of standard basic energy and ballistic weapons that are superior to the original 3025 baseline models without any tradeoffs (ex. the Clan ER medium laser is generally superior, but has a worse damage-to-heat ratio than the standard medium laser).

For me those new baselines might be...

Small Laser: 1 heat, 4 damage, 0/1/3/4, 0.5 tons, 1 crit
Medium Laser: 3 heat, 6 damage, 0/4/8/12, 1 ton, 1 crit
Large Laser: 8 heat, 10 damage, 0/7/14/20, 4 tons, 1 crit
PPC: 10 heat, 12 damage, 0/6/12/18, 5 tons, 2 crits

AC/2: 1 heat, 2 damage, 4/8/16/24, 40 shots per ton, 3 tons, 1 crit
AC/5: 1 heat, 5 damage, 3/6/12/18, 20 shots per ton, 4 tons, 2 crits
AC/10: 3 heat, 10 damage, 0/5/10/15, 10 shots per ton, 6 tons, 3 crits
AC/20: 7 heat, 20 damage, 0/3/6/9, 5 shots per ton, 7 tons, 4 crits

SRM/LRM/MG/Flamer: Use current Clan versions (already superior to baseline versions in every way).
« Last Edit: 17 August 2011, 16:49:50 by Chris24601 »

Onisuzume

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #171 on: 17 August 2011, 17:31:53 »
I posted my own version of the lasers here.
Not as good as full clantech, but somewhat better than standard IS tech.

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Khymerion

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #172 on: 17 August 2011, 20:39:47 »
At which point it should probably cease to be called Clantech and instead just be general equipment in any sort of 3150 TRO. The less efficient 3050-era Inner Sphere versions could then be relabeled as "Primative" models (i.e. Primative XL Engines, Primative Ferro-Fibrous, et cetera).

Actually, I think the thing I'd most want to see in the form of new tech for 3150 are a new set of standard basic energy and ballistic weapons that are superior to the original 3025 baseline models without any tradeoffs (ex. the Clan ER medium laser is generally superior, but has a worse damage-to-heat ratio than the standard medium laser).

For me those new baselines might be...

Small Laser: 1 heat, 4 damage, 0/1/3/4, 0.5 tons, 1 crit
Medium Laser: 3 heat, 6 damage, 0/4/8/12, 1 ton, 1 crit
Large Laser: 8 heat, 10 damage, 0/7/14/20, 4 tons, 1 crit
PPC: 10 heat, 12 damage, 0/6/12/18, 5 tons, 2 crits

AC/2: 1 heat, 2 damage, 4/8/16/24, 40 shots per ton, 3 tons, 1 crit
AC/5: 1 heat, 5 damage, 3/6/12/18, 20 shots per ton, 4 tons, 2 crits
AC/10: 3 heat, 10 damage, 0/5/10/15, 10 shots per ton, 6 tons, 3 crits
AC/20: 7 heat, 20 damage, 0/3/6/9, 5 shots per ton, 7 tons, 4 crits

SRM/LRM/MG/Flamer: Use current Clan versions (already superior to baseline versions in every way).

Wouldn't mind seeing a new base line like that...  though that would have to push the old 'primitive' level into what could be considered 'archaic'.
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #173 on: 18 August 2011, 00:35:56 »
there is no gap between Clan or IS in 3150, IS used clan tech while Clan uses IS tech, found it really difficult to understand some battles in the Dark Age novells. When I take a look to CBT - DarkAge conversations there is almost clan tech in use. (Tundra Wolf, Jupiter, HellStar, Hellion, BehemothII, SM1...)

However with X-tech it is always a pleasure to counter clan tech, blue shield and reflect armor vs. Warhawk or Hellstar is always great fun

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #174 on: 18 August 2011, 00:56:34 »
The Raptor OmniMech was actually in production by May of 3052. Helluva feat in reverse-engineering. Of course, it was a first-gen Omni, probably only able to accept DCMS standard equipment but still.

Clan-tech should be the "Level 2" of the 3150 era. Expensive, but not out of reach, and common to the well supplied. A century has passed, which is plenty enough time to establish the industries necessary for Clan-grade engineering.

Then, the Homeworld Clans invade again with better gear...

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #175 on: 18 August 2011, 01:01:57 »
Then, the Homeworld Clans invade again with better gear...

Or worse gear since they apparently just executed everyone with any ability or initiative in their scientist castes.
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #176 on: 18 August 2011, 01:06:22 »
I don't want clantech produced by IS factions.  If I wanted Clantech in the IS, I'd run Ghost Bear, Wolf, etc.  If the successor states want to develop new tech that goes in new directions, cool.  Just don't give me a table full of lasers from 1990.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #177 on: 18 August 2011, 01:11:59 »
Or worse gear since they apparently just executed everyone with any ability or initiative in their scientist castes.

Yeah but those that remained are probably not trying to hold back the Clans technologically. It'll take a few generations, but by 3150 I assume they've managed to do a few new things. Like applying ProtoMech armour to BattleMechs...

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #178 on: 18 August 2011, 01:15:35 »
Yeah but those that remained are probably not trying to hold back the Clans technologically. It'll take a few generations, but by 3150 I assume they've managed to do a few new things. Like applying ProtoMech armour to BattleMechs...

I don't know, historically purges have had pretty long lasting negative effects. I can see a reasonable au where the purge of the scientists results in the clan homeworlds sinking back to 3025 levels and eventually getting invaded by the IS clans.
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #179 on: 18 August 2011, 01:23:13 »
Potential Wars of Reaving spoilers:

However, the Scientist purge was more or less done by the end of the Wars of Reaving, and the summaries afterwards show growth for all the Clans involved.

Clan Stone Lion even began acquiring new Bloodnames after they were declared clean, meaning there were still some Scientist around who were more or less competent. And their industries are still intact.

These Clans didn't declare, well, Jihad, on their Scientists like the Jade Falcons did. I don't think a reversion to L1 tech is in the offing for the Clans. At worst, they keep their Jihad-WoR era tech.

WoR ends on 3085 I think. 65 years is a lot of generations of scientists, combined with the Spirits' former colony worlds rich in resources and I think they may just surprise us with their tech.

Oh yes, time to see the dawn of the Extra Extended Range Pulse PPC on a quadruple sinked 'Mech.

 

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