Author Topic: Jihad sourcebook  (Read 2995 times)

parpdelayed

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Jihad sourcebook
« on: 12 June 2024, 05:29:49 »
Can you give me a list of necessary sources to follow developments and activities during the jihad period?

Orwell84

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #1 on: 12 June 2024, 06:38:35 »
The main sourcebooks, in rough chronological order:
  • Blake Ascending (3067-3070)
  • Jihad Hot Spots: 3072 (3071-3072)
  • Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents (3073-3074)
  • Jihad Hot Spots: 3076 (3075-3076)
  • Masters and Minions: The StarCorps Dossiers
  • Jihad Hot Spots: Terra (3077-3078)
  • Jihad: Final Reckoning (3079-3081)
  • Field Manual: 3085 - gives a short overview of the whole Jihad and the immediate post-Jihad years
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Wrangler

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #2 on: 12 June 2024, 08:00:19 »
Side note, Jihad: Final Reckoning has timeline of the entire era of events by date/year Jihad in Review if you want get snap shot of events as they happened.

Spoiler Alert  Remember the Jihad books (especially earlier sourcebooks) are intended as for players/rpgers going to follow a long without known what about to happen.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #3 on: 12 June 2024, 11:25:17 »
honestly a more in depth "historical: Jihad" book IMHO is proably not a bad thing to be developed now that we're past the story being "current"
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ColBosch

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #4 on: 12 June 2024, 12:23:22 »
honestly a more in depth "historical: Jihad" book IMHO is proably not a bad thing to be developed now that we're past the story being "current"

Yeah, it's been over a decade since Final Reckoning. In fact, it's been longer since Dawn of the Jihad came out (18 years) than the entire time that FASA published BattleTech (16 years).
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #5 on: 12 June 2024, 16:20:25 »
Wasn’t one of the books a combined copy of two of them? I can’t remember if that was a thing but I swore it was?

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #6 on: 12 June 2024, 16:53:27 »
Yeah, Blake Ascending is a combination of Dawn of the Jihad and Jihad Hotspots: 3070.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #7 on: 12 June 2024, 20:40:19 »
Yeah, it's been over a decade since Final Reckoning. In fact, it's been longer since Dawn of the Jihad came out (18 years) than the entire time that FASA published BattleTech (16 years).

and there's STILL a lot of confusion about the Jihad
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Minemech

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #8 on: 12 June 2024, 21:19:16 »
and there's STILL a lot of confusion about the Jihad
I prefer to think of it as wiggle room.

Frabby

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #9 on: 13 June 2024, 04:10:54 »
I don't think there is much left to be confused about. Herb Beas, who was LD throughout the Jihad era, did a great job of explaining things in this thread (it's 21 pages and takes a little time until it gets into the nitty gritty details - but it's probably a big eye opener so a Spoiler Alert is in order):

WOB Jihad - The Plan?
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Orwell84

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #10 on: 13 June 2024, 06:50:06 »
I don't think there is much left to be confused about. Herb Beas, who was LD throughout the Jihad era, did a great job of explaining things in this thread (it's 21 pages and takes a little time until it gets into the nitty gritty details - but it's probably a big eye opener so a Spoiler Alert is in order):

WOB Jihad - The Plan?

Seconded. A lot of comments which made me thoughtful, such as Herb Beas pointing out how Wolf's Dragoons (designated heroes in many stories) tried to have their Clan cake and eat it in the Sphere. Plus most Blakists not being genodical fanatics but moderates either truly believing in Blake's teachings or just trying to end the incessant House-to-House wars.
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Wrangler

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #11 on: 13 June 2024, 07:51:01 »
It really depends what point of view you're trying use.

You want the Player's point of view, the in-character's point of view?

The majority of the Jihad Hot Spot books were done in style of in-universe reports, that players were trying sort out.  The scenarios included them had GM notes, stating what was actually happening to a certain extent. I suspect keep the player base busy, talking about the game than getting static.

While Jihad: Final Reckoning and likely Field Manual: 3085 made official (in universe) statements on what happening during the chaotic period era, multiple wars, miscommunications leading to combat, False Flag operations triggering conflicts.  Enemy nation divided,  Protectorate was set to fall while elite Manei Domini were head of the spear of trying ensure hate to drive the Inner Sphere & Clans together fight defeat the WoB Protectorate.  That done, they fill out the plan of the Master attempt teach humanity a lesson, "War is Bad, stop trying keep doing it."  This based on inflections of (real) Thomas Marik, but only his head voice knew this.    The Protectorate was a bullseye for the Inner Sphere focus on, since it's straight forward.  WoB Militia Divisions were not effective in their way keeping the Protectorate safe, just keeping the Inner Sphere not focus on it.

In a way, Dark Age era (Late Republic era) was essentially similar and less violent / destructive era of the Jihad.  Chaos Wars time period, with the HPGs being restored, ilClan era is setting up something completely new.  Stabilization of various nations, knowing what actually going on and get economies stabilize in time.   We'll see bit more clear picture what going on, perhaps actual Field Manual after last intelligence report book (whatever these books are called, Splatbook?) comes out. 
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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #12 on: 14 June 2024, 11:59:36 »
The Jihad is going to continue to get a bad rep, unit Herb writes a summery article of the conflict or era for Sarna.

Once that happens maybe Text will do a series.

SteelRaven

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #13 on: 14 June 2024, 12:37:52 »
The attitude has already been changing for the better but it wasn't the later books when the story became more cohesive. The first few books, the in universe Fog of War narrative led to some confusion and some frustration I still see today.         
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HABeas2

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #14 on: 14 June 2024, 14:11:23 »
The Jihad is going to continue to get a bad rep, unit Herb writes a summery article of the conflict or era for Sarna.

Once that happens maybe Text will do a series.

*snrk!*

Yup. THAT'll happen!  :tongue:

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Pat Payne

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #15 on: 14 June 2024, 19:19:13 »
The attitude has already been changing for the better but it wasn't the later books when the story became more cohesive. The first few books, the in universe Fog of War narrative led to some confusion and some frustration I still see today.       

Yeah, the whole "canon rumor" thing, while it looked interesting as a concept, really became a frustrating mess for those who wanted to follow the flow of the story. I get that most sourcebooks are written "in-universe" with all the biases and limitations of information of the in-universe author and that the novels are the definitive "this is how it happened", but even they have a logical flow and the reader has some assurance that the books aren't flat-out lying to them about what happened. I hope they don't revisit that.   

idea weenie

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #16 on: 14 June 2024, 22:57:11 »
The main sourcebooks, in rough chronological order:
  • Blake Ascending (3067-3070)
  • Jihad Hot Spots: 3072 (3071-3072)
  • Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents (3073-3074)
  • Jihad Hot Spots: 3076 (3075-3076)
  • Masters and Minions: The StarCorps Dossiers
  • Jihad Hot Spots: Terra (3077-3078)
  • Jihad: Final Reckoning (3079-3081)
  • Field Manual: 3085 - gives a short overview of the whole Jihad and the immediate post-Jihad years

Note to self, this is the WoB Jihad book list.  'Blake Ascending' contains both 'Dawn of the Jihad' and 'Jihad Hotspots: 3070'.

Jihad: Final Reckoning has timeline of the entire era of events by date/year
Jihad in Review if you want get snap shot of events as they happened.


I don't think there is much left to be confused about. Herb Beas, who was LD throughout the Jihad era, did a great job of explaining things in this thread (it's 21 pages and takes a little time until it gets into the nitty gritty details - but it's probably a big eye opener so a Spoiler Alert is in order):

WOB Jihad - The Plan?

And here is 'The Plan', also for my notes.

HABeas2

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #17 on: 14 June 2024, 23:16:40 »
Note to self, this is the WoB Jihad book list.  'Blake Ascending' contains both 'Dawn of the Jihad' and 'Jihad Hotspots: 3070'.

Jihad: Final Reckoning has timeline of the entire era of events by date/year
Jihad in Review if you want get snap shot of events as they happened.


And here is 'The Plan', also for my notes.

Perhaps one extra bit: Total Chaos - That book ran a campaign straight through the years of the Jihad, dropping details about the war throughout that might be of interest.

- Herb

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #18 on: 14 June 2024, 23:26:44 »
The attitude has already been changing for the better but it wasn't the later books when the story became more cohesive. The first few books, the in universe Fog of War narrative led to some confusion and some frustration I still see today.       

We lacked access to novels, so we tried something new that was meant to show why some of the things that had to happen could be plausible.

Too often, the degree of information that the players have is borderline perfect, which would make it trivial for them to realize that even with the changes/buffs that WOB got, the conflict should've lasted a fraction of the time it did. That level of fog/confusion in the initial books? That's how the people in-universe experienced things. And with novels, there was no way to convey that, and have it carry enough weight to make it believable that the WOB was able to create such massive problems, get as far as they did, and become as hated as they did.

I'm not sure those goals could've been pursued in any other way, with the limitations that existed. Instead of the complaint being "Boy it was hard to follow initially", it'd be "Boy they really forced those stupid pills down the throats of every Successor Lord and Khan, didn't they?"

The solution is just ignore Paul.

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #19 on: 14 June 2024, 23:34:06 »
Put another way, a challenge.

Go to page 99 of FM:Updates.
Using what's on that 1 page, you must provide a plausible story that has the jihad start, last as long as it does, and cause *exactly* as much damage as it does. Because those are largely fixed points in time: not negotiable.
You cannot use novels.
You must use 'old' style sourcebooks to convey the story.

Bonus points if you can figure out a way to do it without the Five Hidden, without Shadow Divisions, without extra WarShips, and without any outside events causing the main factions to look elsewhere. WOB is their only priority.

The solution is just ignore Paul.

HABeas2

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #20 on: 15 June 2024, 07:43:09 »
Bonus points if you can figure out a way to do it without the Five Hidden, without Shadow Divisions, without extra WarShips, and without any outside events causing the main factions to look elsewhere. WOB is their only priority.

Can I still use nukes?

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #21 on: 15 June 2024, 08:06:20 »
Can I still use nukes?

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #22 on: 15 June 2024, 09:47:51 »
I'm not saying that I am by any means a better writer by any means nor in any way mitigating the challenges of the time. I simply noticed allot more hostility during those years for the era and it always seemed to be from general misinformation about certain events still in circulation in the community. When the narrative became more clear, allot more people seem to enjoy the era.
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HABeas2

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #23 on: 15 June 2024, 10:54:45 »
I'm not saying that I am by any means a better writer by any means nor in any way mitigating the challenges of the time. I simply noticed allot more hostility during those years for the era and it always seemed to be from general misinformation about certain events still in circulation in the community. When the narrative became more clear, allot more people seem to enjoy the era.

Good! That means we did it right!

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #24 on: 15 June 2024, 10:59:49 »
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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #25 on: 16 June 2024, 03:41:55 »
We lacked access to novels, so we tried something new that was meant to show why some of the things that had to happen could be plausible.

Too often, the degree of information that the players have is borderline perfect, which would make it trivial for them to realize that even with the changes/buffs that WOB got, the conflict should've lasted a fraction of the time it did. That level of fog/confusion in the initial books? That's how the people in-universe experienced things. And with novels, there was no way to convey that, and have it carry enough weight to make it believable that the WOB was able to create such massive problems, get as far as they did, and become as hated as they did.

I'm not sure those goals could've been pursued in any other way, with the limitations that existed. Instead of the complaint being "Boy it was hard to follow initially", it'd be "Boy they really forced those stupid pills down the throats of every Successor Lord and Khan, didn't they?"


to be fair Paul when people complain about "stupid pills" it was mostly things like handing the throne of a star empire to a woman who had actively betrayed it, Garrisioning Tikonov with a warrior house etc. No one, for example was complaining about the FWL swallowing stupid pills for having WoB crewed HPGs on their ships (ok to be fair maybe we would have seen it if the FWL fanbase wasn't so small they could hold meetings in a phone. booth) I seem to recall that at the time the general consensus was "this is going to backfire HORRIABLY, but given what the FWL knows this proably seemed a good idea"

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #26 on: 16 June 2024, 11:42:46 »
If wob comes back, a faction book detailing them in depth would be something a few of us wouod be down for.  Not to mention some mysteries of what and whyncould be fleshed out.  One thag many might not catch is st jamias firing on the davions and taking the masters words to far.  "maake them see the light" or something another.  The master didnt like what jamias did.
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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #27 on: 16 June 2024, 12:52:11 »
I would very much like to see a stand-alone Word of Blake sourcebook, one that explores their history (including the Jihad), internal politics (messy, to say the least), full military assets (public, concealed, and suborned), and so on. It'd also be a good place to reveal the location of the final Hidden World and its fate, since it's increasingly clear that the Word pulled a Kerensky and left the Inner Sphere.
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HABeas2

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #28 on: 16 June 2024, 13:14:38 »
I would very much like to see a stand-alone Word of Blake sourcebook, one that explores their history (including the Jihad), internal politics (messy, to say the least), full military assets (public, concealed, and suborned), and so on. It'd also be a good place to reveal the location of the final Hidden World and its fate, since it's increasingly clear that the Word pulled a Kerensky and left the Inner Sphere.

Again, I say... *snrk!*

- Herb

ColBosch

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Re: Jihad sourcebook
« Reply #29 on: 16 June 2024, 13:32:02 »
Again, I say... *snrk!*

Don't *snrk* at me, sir! I know what I'm asking here.
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