Author Topic: DropZone Battalion formation  (Read 2080 times)

Colt Ward

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DropZone Battalion formation
« on: 14 June 2023, 12:21:55 »
Re-reading some 'Ian Douglas' Marine series got me thinking about BattleTech's frequent 'beach'/landing/drop zone insertions for raids and with the coming of the Clans, actual invasions to seize a world.  Since the 4SW, the Inner Sphere seems to have re-discovered a lot of 'ancient' technology regarding military practice/doctrine, such as the 3 vs 1 ratio for attackers.

One of the the doctrines that were established was getting troops and supplies ashore and understanding some of the difficulties involved as well as gathering equipment and specialists in the practice.  Be it landing boats, amphibious crawlers, or VTOL delivery to the beach, militaries created practices and in many cases formed specific units to expedite the funneling of troopers, equipment and material ashore as well as protecting that 'beach head' from counterattacks.

In my opinion, such a subordinate command would fall under a RCT at the least, perhaps a paper 'brigade' formation (Sword of Light regiments or say FWL Legionnaire regiments), or maybe even a theater asset like Dieron Prefecture or Capellan March.

But IF you were going to form such a specialist unit and try to pack it in a single large dropship to go in with the first wave of a invasion (or maybe a complicated raid), what would you want/include in that single dropship?  What sort of troops, specialists, equipment, and supplies would you want?
Colt Ward
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AlphaMirage

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #1 on: 14 June 2023, 13:40:16 »
I'd want this vessel because it serves as a sort of Expeditionary Transfer Dock.

Shuttles are the 'helicopter' units in battletech, Dropships are your 'landing craft' thus by using its fleet of shuttles the Ajax or similar orbiter (like say an SLDF Warship) can support a large planetary campaign. It is also available for docking with other ships in order to transfer large cargos and restore their own stores. The shuttles can provide specialized reinforcements as long as they can fit in the shuttle.

The types of equipment I would want are
1: Lots of ammo and spares for everything
2: Satellites of every conceivable type
3: Specialist vehicles that can fit in a shuttle such as engineering equipment for weird terrain that you can't just hop over, recovery vehicles, trucks to keep up the right amount of cargo to the front as the front moves further from the dropship, artillery to pulverize fortifications, etc...
4: Extra Technical Personnel to aid in recover and repair operations as needed.

Hellraiser

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #2 on: 14 June 2023, 14:37:56 »
But IF you were going to form such a specialist unit and try to pack it in a single large dropship to go in with the first wave of a invasion (or maybe a complicated raid), what would you want/include in that single dropship?  What sort of troops, specialists, equipment, and supplies would you want?

Step-1.
Overlord in orbit drops 1 battalion of mechs to secure an LZ

Step-2.
That Overlord, along w/ any Unions, & a selection of Fortress/Seeker/Excalibur class Dropship(s) land in the LZ.
Added Mech Companies & Vehicle/Infantry units debark to fully fortify the LZ & send out recon/pickets to advise if the enemy is approaching.

Step-3.
Set up a Field HQ & Call down the Mules & start offloading the bulk of the invasion force.


As for kinds of troops.
Both Engineers & Scouts are going to be a must on those first troop carriers.
Fill in the rest w/ generic line platoons to help secure the LZ.
Also a full tech platoon/company to handle initial repairs & such.
Supplies for the 1st wave of DS is mostly food-water, hostile environment gear, ammo & armor.
Stuff that you'll need in the first 12-24 hours.

Field Base type stuff (tents) can be in the Mule wave.
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Generalripphook

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #3 on: 14 June 2023, 17:46:28 »
How often do we see landings that are contested on the ground itself? Aren't most landings just contested by Aerospace? 

Alan Grant

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #4 on: 14 June 2023, 17:54:32 »
How often do we see landings that are contested on the ground itself? Aren't most landings just contested by Aerospace?

It really depends, but contested landings do happen. It's not uncommon for a raid to land close to the target, or for an invasion to target a suitable dropship port or airfield as an initial assault point. Someplace that's useful as a base or to land aerodyne dropships that need runways, but that also happens to be occupied by enemy forces. Manage the risk versus advantages of immediately grabbing some particularly useful real estate immediately.

Most of the time (but there are some notable exceptions) the invaders don't land right on the heart of the enemy's most concentrated strength. Such a landing would be very dangerous, but it does happen. More often they chose a spot that suits their needs, where they believe the defenders will be of manageable strength.

But once the defenders observe the incoming dropships, they can sometimes figure out where the landing will occur and then race to the site to contest the landing immediately. We've seen that before.

And yes that may be contested by aerospace as well. It just depends on the circumstances, the strength and deployment of the enemy versus your forces, and the defenders chosen strategy. Sometimes they'll find it advantageous to intercept the invaders/raiders in space or in the air, and other times they may not have the strength to overcome the invading force's own aerospace screen, and opt instead to hold back and use a different strategy. It just depends.
« Last Edit: 14 June 2023, 18:01:44 by Alan Grant »

AlphaMirage

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #5 on: 14 June 2023, 18:12:22 »
My MO in fiction and gaming is that combat drops in proximity to targets should be more common. You have until the orbiting dropship returns to complete your mission or the dropship will deploy to a pre-designated rendezvous point on 'the other side' which serves as an end point but if spotted could be attacked by fast moving air or hovercraft. Any aerospace fighters you've brought with you only have enough fuel for that orbit anyway so they'd make a quick run on fixed targets and be available for strike missions in support of the attackers just like in the Marine Aviation Wings.

Battlemechs are the 'Marines' of an Inner Sphere army, special commando style forces that use their greater mobility and heavy firepower to best effect but lack endurance and are vulnerable to being bogged down and surrounded. If you need to slog it out or defend a world that's the job of armor, artillery, and infantry don't send expensive mechs and they're rare and difficult to train pilots into a melee if you can help it.

Combat Drops are ruleswise aren't difficult and give medium mechs which are frequently slightly faster and possess jump jets a distinct advantage over their heavier non-jumping counterparts that would make them the default for expeditionary work. This also makes fan favorites like the Catapult, Grasshopper, and Guillotine better because these are some of the heavier mechs possessing jump jets in most eras. It also gives light mechs (and bigger light mechs like the Cicada and Assassin) something to do as they can find, delay, and harass incoming Mediums long enough for other ground forces to respond.

nerd

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #6 on: 14 June 2023, 19:40:11 »
I'd be building a Mech Battalion Landing Team around a Fortress, an Intruder and Two Unions.

Unions provide BattleMech companies and a fighter lance, for a primary assault force. Spreads out the Mechs some.

Intruder rounds out the fighter squadron, and carries a company of infantry. It can also serve as a secondary HQ.

The Fortress rounds out the Mech Battalion, provides on the ground fire support, and brings in vehicles, and more infantry. This could include first in engineers filling roles similar to an Amphibious Construction Battalion.
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Colt Ward

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #7 on: 15 June 2023, 10:59:07 »
I'd be building a Mech Battalion Landing Team around a Fortress, an Intruder and Two Unions.

Unions provide BattleMech companies and a fighter lance, for a primary assault force. Spreads out the Mechs some.

Intruder rounds out the fighter squadron, and carries a company of infantry. It can also serve as a secondary HQ.

The Fortress rounds out the Mech Battalion, provides on the ground fire support, and brings in vehicles, and more infantry. This could include first in engineers filling roles similar to an Amphibious Construction Battalion.

Sort of what I was thinking, but with docking collars being the most valuable commodity I was trying to cram it into a single hull.


To further what Alan Grant said, we also have times in fiction & sourcebooks where raids are made against DZs to destroy supplies, wreck rear area equipment such as repair vehicles, and kill techs/supply personnel.  All made to disrupt operations in the rear which would slow the attack/advance.  So a designed DZ battalion would be tasked with keeping the DZ secure letting the RCT or collection of regiments concentrate on pushing their offensive out from that secured beach head- especially since what matters in such a landing an attack on a hostile 'shore (planet)' is how many troops you can push through the DZ and into the field.  The other part is you have experienced troops & staff taking the bare DZ and upgrading it as quickly as possible to improve landing operations as well as cycling the troops & supplies for the troops through the DZ.  I know it is something that we as board-gamers might overlook, but putting people experienced in taking the loadplans for the cargo on dropships and getting it out to the units that need the ammo, parts, and fuel is vital to a offensive.  Honestly, this would have been one of the big things the Galahad exercises did- get staffs experience in combat loading large amounts of supplies for assaults and DZ staff in managing the chaos of constantly landing cargo DS being unloaded, sorted, and supplies pushed forward from the 'beach head.'
Colt Ward
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nerd

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #8 on: 15 June 2023, 11:24:28 »
The problem is there are no good Dropships for that role. Maybe a Colossus, but then what do you do with the 72 vehicle bays?
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Hellraiser

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #9 on: 15 June 2023, 11:32:22 »
The problem is there are no good Dropships for that role. Maybe a Colossus, but then what do you do with the 72 vehicle bays?

Where to start.

Artillery Battery to support the mechs from range.
Recon Units to scout
Combat Vees to defend the LZ
Support Vees galore.. (Engineering, Fuel, Ammo, MASH, MHQ, Repairs, Cargo)

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Colt Ward

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #10 on: 15 June 2023, 11:43:03 »
The problem is there are no good Dropships for that role. Maybe a Colossus, but then what do you do with the 72 vehicle bays?

I have no problem re-arranging the bays BUT . . .

Yeah, a lance of Partisans for AA and with their tracks they can tow trailers around for positioning as needed.  Some bulldozers to push earth to make Aero landing strips and embankments to re-channel spheriod's blastzones so each time a spheriod lands work does not have to stop due to the blast of wind & heat.  A mobile HQ or two- one for the unloading/supply operations and one for the DZ security . . . maybe another as a forward ATC?

But then you also have trailers that could be assigned to a DZ Battalion- artillery that can do both fire support & AA duty.  Prepared perimeter hard points with heavy weapons such as the UAC version.

Heavy BattleMech Recovery Vehicles, Mobile Field Bases, and various other support vehicles for the DZ and initial operations.  Especially the cargo transports with lift hoists.

Then convert the bays . . . CargoMechs and exoskeletons to increase the unloading ability of the troops you placed on the DZ.  Forestry & Construction indimechs to start building a road to follow the maneuver elements as well as clearing more space for spheriod landing pads along with cleared fire zones for the perimeter.
« Last Edit: 15 June 2023, 11:45:58 by Colt Ward »
Colt Ward
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #11 on: 15 June 2023, 11:56:21 »
Trutzbergs, Polaris’s, and Fortress classes for days. Vehicles being heavy tanks and arty, mechs being JJ equipped heavies and mediums (mostly), battle armor scouts mostly with a couple heavy weapon squads.

Land a heavy battalion to secure the zone, follow up with lighter units for later, bring down the regiment last.

thesilverback

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #12 on: 19 June 2023, 20:47:06 »
Don't forget to gain air superiority by the use Leopard CVs. 
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #13 on: 05 July 2023, 19:25:22 »

The canon dropships for this role never made much sense.  Ground assault designs like the Fortress are more heavily armored than comparable transports like the Overlord, which is good.  But they carry combined arms teams, two-thirds of which are unit types (vehicles, infantry) that aren’t the best choice for combat drops and are relatively fragile if they make it to the ground.

I think the ideal ground assault dropship would be faster and more heavily armored than the traditional transports, only carry mechs and fighters (if they don’t assume fighter escorts), and provide some fire support once grounded.  Deploy the fighters to screen on the way in, drop the mechs to secure the zone, land the dropship and lend fire support to the mechs, and only then bring in the more fragile vehicles and infantry on separate dropships that land and unload once the zone is reasonably secure, instead of undertaking dangerous combat drops with units that aren’t ideal for it.  Later in the timeline, units that don’t suffer combat drop penalties like battle armor, protos, quadvees, and WiGEs could be added to a ground assault dropship’s complement, but even then, the higher general survivability of mechs argue to me that they (and fighters) take up all the bays.

Honestly, if I was being realistic about a planetary assaultand not just trying to play an interesting game, I wouldn’t even bring in vehicles and infantry for days/weeks until the operation was ready for urban sweeps and garrisoning.  Or maybe in very specific supplemental roles (riverine terrain, recon cause don’t have enough light mechs, artillery support, etc.).  Logic says use the survivability advantages of mechs to kill off the enemy garrison and militia.  Don’t bring friendly garrison and militia units to kill other garrison and militia units.

All other things being equal, of course.  If the necessary mech force is too expensive or unavailable, then make do.
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Colt Ward

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #14 on: 06 July 2023, 10:16:35 »
Honestly, if I was being realistic about a planetary assaultand not just trying to play an interesting game, I wouldn’t even bring in vehicles and infantry for days/weeks until the operation was ready for urban sweeps and garrisoning.  Or maybe in very specific supplemental roles (riverine terrain, recon cause don’t have enough light mechs, artillery support, etc.).  Logic says use the survivability advantages of mechs to kill off the enemy garrison and militia.  Don’t bring friendly garrison and militia units to kill other garrison and militia units.

All other things being equal, of course.  If the necessary mech force is too expensive or unavailable, then make do.

You would still want/need infantry to protect your re-arm, DZ, and laager points and vehicles are better guarding your support echelons.

But this ask was not about assaulting a DZ, it was about organizing a beach-head force.  A command designed to hold the choke point of your supply/support lines, have the right gear, personnel, experience & a established doctrine to establish that DZ, and make it the most efficient site possible not under the direct command of the assault commander.  IIRC experience in amphib operations in WWII created such units that controlled the beachhead to get ashore as many men & material as possible in a orderly manner.
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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #15 on: 06 July 2023, 11:36:57 »
I think the ideal ground assault dropship would be faster and more heavily armored than the traditional transports, only carry mechs and fighters (if they don’t assume fighter escorts), and provide some fire support once grounded. 

So the SLDF Lee class pretty much.

Definitely a good "first wave" ship among the ground landers.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #16 on: 06 July 2023, 13:01:44 »
You would still want/need infantry to protect your re-arm, DZ, and laager points and vehicles are better guarding your support echelons.

But this ask was not about assaulting a DZ, it was about organizing a beach-head force.  A command designed to hold the choke point of your supply/support lines, have the right gear, personnel, experience & a established doctrine to establish that DZ

I think there’s no difference.  If you have to “establish that DZ” or “beach-head”, then you have to assault it (or be prepared to) in the initial wave(s)

My point is about phasing — the initial wave(s) is/are fundamentally different from follow-on waves.  Assaulting or establishing the initial dropzone or beachhead involves different operations and unit types than maintaining or expanding it.  That initial assault will likely be the highest intensity combat and riskiest operation of the campaign.  It is best undertaken by mechs (and probably the heavier ones).  The rules favor mechs for this both in terms of sheer survivability and in terms of combat drops.  Only land the more fragile and less drop-friendly vehicles and infantry in later waves.  There’s no point bringing in units suited for maintaining “supply chokepoints”, “support echelons”, and stuff like security/patrols/garrisons until the initial DZ has been established.

My other point was that, as usual in BT, the design of the units don’t reflect the kind of operations that the rules actually dictate.  Ground assault dropships like the Fortress don’t focus on the units necessary to establish a DZ.  They just transport a little of everything and the kitchen sink.

Honestly, even for stuff like DZ security and patrols, you’re probably better off under the rules with a network of remote sensors run from the dropship C&C’s and a force of light/medium mechs that can rapidly respond to incursions and/or quickly sweep an area with their sensors than gobs of infantry and their transports.  In an ideal assault, even later waves would probably still be all mech.

Because of their inherent fragility, lack of mobility across terrain types (vehicles), and lack of speed and weapons range (infantry) under the rules, infantry and vehicles are only superior to mechs in very narrow roles like carrying big artillery pieces, clearing buildings, and moving over riverine or really broken terrain.  With interstellar/interplanetary transport capability limited or at a premium, I would fill it with mechs and mechwarriors before vehicles and infantry, which would be very small force multipliers or for handling really specific circumstances.

Again, all other things being equal.  BV, C-Bill, or other constraints may dictate otherwise.  Expeditionary RCTs/LCTs don’t make much sense under the rules, but if you have more transport capability than mechs, then RCTs/LCTs come into their own.

And of course this doesn’t mean that infantry or vehicles can’t outnumber and take down mechs, which is what you expect the defending garrisons and militia to do.  But on-world defenders don’t suffer the limitations of an assault force’s dropship/jumpship capacities, which the assault commander naturally wants to stuff with quality and that means mechs.

So the SLDF Lee class pretty much.

Definitely a good "first wave" ship among the ground landers.

Yeah, agreed.  It should be put back into production somewhere(s)for later eras.  But given that the game favors small unit actions, I’d also like to see a smaller version of the Lee in the canon for deploying a reinforced company of mechs in the initial assaults on smaller/lower priority/less defended DZs.  Or for putting fewer eggs for the assault wave all in the same basket.
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Hellraiser

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #17 on: 06 July 2023, 19:25:48 »
But this ask was not about assaulting a DZ, it was about organizing a beach-head force.  A command designed to hold the choke point of your supply/support lines, have the right gear, personnel, experience & a established doctrine to establish that DZ, and make it the most efficient site possible not under the direct command of the assault commander.  IIRC experience in amphib operations in WWII created such units that controlled the beachhead to get ashore as many men & material as possible in a orderly manner.

Sooo,  "Securing" the DZ v/s "Assaulting" it.

As I mentioned above, I assault from orbit using mechs only, typically from my Overlord the biggest carrier we have.

Now, "Securing" the DZ would be the troops in my very first wave of landed dropships.

Ideally that would be a Fortress class DS that landed w/ the Overlord & another DS, like a Union to get down some added mechs but also the Vees & Infantry you'd want early access to.

In my old campaign days we didn't have a Fortress
So, either the Seeker for light units.
Overlord-2 for the Heavy Vee company it has.
Or the Excalibur for massed landing of a lot of my initial infantry/tank forces.

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Hellraiser

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #18 on: 06 July 2023, 19:37:43 »
I think there’s no difference.  If you have to “establish that DZ” or “beach-head”, then you have to assault it (or be prepared to) in the initial wave(s)

My point is about phasing — the initial wave(s) is/are fundamentally different from follow-on waves. 


Yeah, agreed.  It should be put back into production somewhere(s)for later eras.  But given that the game favors small unit actions, I’d also like to see a smaller version of the Lee in the canon for deploying a reinforced company of mechs in the initial assaults on smaller/lower priority/less defended DZs.  Or for putting fewer eggs for the assault wave all in the same basket.

Ideally you wouldn't "need" to assault the DZ because you pick one well away from the Enemy.
That said, my first wave of the "ground assault" is orbital drop of mechs for a reason.
I don't land even a Fortress till I have eyes on the ground doing a "Recon in Force" to make sure my DZ is as empty as intel suggested.

I don't see a problem in having infantry/tanks come down in the first DS wave, provided they are in a Combat DS (Not a Mule), that can deploy them quickly out into the DZ & the DS isn't too vulnerable (Looking at you Excalibur).

Heck, ideally, I've already done flyovers & have at the LEAST the ASF attached directly to my mech transports flying air cover during the Drop.
 (So a Squadron for Overlords, a Flight for Unions, etc etc)
Air Superiority should already be contested/achieved by Fleet Wings that come in on Leo-CVs or Vengeance DS.


As for the Lee, I was just happy we got the Colossus retconned back into production by the Suns in the Jihad.
In the meantime, a smaller substitute to consider is the Union-X, its not the Brick the Lee is but still a solid option for an assault force w/ the double flight of ASF & BA platoon.
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truetanker

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Re: DropZone Battalion formation
« Reply #19 on: 15 September 2023, 14:22:35 »
First, how many collars are there?

Assuming a Merchant or Invader, your best bet is two available, the third Invader collar is open...

So that means, you only get something with combined - arms dropShip and something with Aero.

Of course, this isn't a raid.... So double or triple your fleet.

Two Merchant and an Invader, six collars.

Overlord-Two
Union
Union Combined-Arms
Intruder
Seeker
Danais / Trojan for supplies and support/salvage operations.

Given the need, I'd run this...

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