Author Topic: Superheavy Company?  (Read 4148 times)

thesilverback

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Superheavy Company?
« on: 04 August 2023, 11:39:57 »
Ok, In a Superheavy Battlemech Company, is a Superheavy just substituted for a regular battlemech because 4 superheavy in a lance seems like overkill and/or it would create a severely weak unit. A mixed lance of a superheavy battlemech, supported by 3 medium or heavy units would be a much better choice.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #1 on: 04 August 2023, 11:46:05 »
I want to say I saw somewhere what the Duat carries is considered a 'company' of the superheavies- basically the DS is the equivalent of the Union.  Which means 6 superheavies forms a company.  Now the initial tactical doctrine in ilClan/HotW had light forces screening the superheavies- hoverbikes (awesome!) and hovercraft.  They would try to keep the massive mechs from being isolated/surrounded by faster normal mechs.
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Church14

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #2 on: 04 August 2023, 12:27:35 »
Duat appears to carry:
6 mechs
6 BA squads
6 Superheavies
A platoon of infantry (for security onsite?)
So half a level III

If anyone else made it, I’d say you are in to something, but at a glance (I don’t have the relevant TRO in front of me) ComStar was deploying superheavies like a typical level II

We also have the FWL manufactured ares in Empire Alone, which are deployed in full lances of 4.

Ok, In a Superheavy Battlemech Company, is a Superheavy just substituted for a regular battlemech because 4 superheavy in a lance seems like overkill and/or it would create a severely weak unit. A mixed lance of a superheavy battlemech, supported by 3 medium or heavy units would be a much better choice.

I don’t think anyone who brings superheavies to bear was looking for anything less than overkill



EDIT: rechecked. EA doesn’t call out a specific number, but just refers to them as typical lances/companies without anything saying they come in half numbers.
« Last Edit: 04 August 2023, 12:31:20 by Church14 »

Colt Ward

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #3 on: 04 August 2023, 12:50:31 »
The Republic repurposed the never before seen design for raiding outside the Fortress after they squished ComStar.  The Superheavy accomodations was a refit- perhaps stripped out another pair of Level IIs?
Colt Ward
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thesilverback

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #4 on: 04 August 2023, 13:02:47 »
I agreed if you are bringing superheavies you are definitely looking for overkill but the weakness of a superheavy only company is terrible, too.  Was looking to see what had been put out for a company size element.  Also thanks you all for the information on the Ducat and what it carried that make a lot more sense about a superheavy company is. Because I mainly play heavy medium and light heavy units this makes a lot more sense.
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Church14

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #5 on: 04 August 2023, 13:05:56 »
That’s what I get for not having the TRO.

Hm. 6 220 ton bays would match the sort of “max weight +50%” of a mech bay but for superheavies. That’s about 9 lost mech bays to create those. Convert some to vehicle bays…

without adjusting cargo by too much, the original might’ve been:
2 level II mechs
1 level II tanks
3 level II BA/infantry?

Dunno.

When I can, I’ll try to read the original TRO and see what it says.

If it said deploying a company, then it might be treating the 6 mechs and 6 superheavies as the company. With BA support that’s a nice hammer

thesilverback

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #6 on: 04 August 2023, 13:13:39 »
A unit of 6 superheavies and 6 mechs would make a nice force, matched 1 and 1. The superheavy to destroy the target and the other mech as a backup to protect the rear.  Sounds good.  And if BA was allowed, to either finish off the superheavy target or to assist the mech to chase off annoying those annoying back strike mechs.  I really like this.
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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #7 on: 05 August 2023, 17:45:15 »
Superheavy mechs are honestly terribly at offensive operations.  They lack speed- only the Poseidon is able to move 3/5, and none of them really have enough long-range power to offset it.  As such, it tends to be easy for an enemy force to avoid them and focus on the lighter units while pummeling the SHs with artillery fire.
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Ghaz

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #8 on: 05 August 2023, 18:50:12 »
Superheavy mechs are honestly terribly at offensive operations.  They lack speed- only the Poseidon is able to move 3/5, and none of them really have enough long-range power to offset it.  As such, it tends to be easy for an enemy force to avoid them and focus on the lighter units while pummeling the SHs with artillery fire.

That reminds me that I still need to get the minis that I need to put together a Tactical Response Star (IlClan sourcebook, pg. 42)  :evil:

Church14

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #9 on: 05 August 2023, 19:18:04 »
Superheavy mechs are honestly terribly at offensive operations.  They lack speed- only the Poseidon is able to move 3/5, and none of them really have enough long-range power to offset it.  As such, it tends to be easy for an enemy force to avoid them and focus on the lighter units while pummeling the SHs with artillery fire.

What makes you assume there aren’t artillery, ASF, and lighter elements with a superheavy unit? They were never deployed by themselves in canon.

Wolf’s zeta battalion, for example, would be a unit where superheavies make sense as well. It’s a brick brought in against the targets nothing else has the meat to crack, and works in canon.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #10 on: 05 August 2023, 20:00:02 »
What makes you assume there aren’t artillery, ASF, and lighter elements with a superheavy unit? They were never deployed by themselves in canon.

Wolf’s zeta battalion, for example, would be a unit where superheavies make sense as well. It’s a brick brought in against the targets nothing else has the meat to crack, and works in canon.

What are the superheavies bringing to the table that isn't available from lighter mechs?  That's the problem with them, they themselves don't actually offer any major advantage that you can't get if you'd brought normal assault mechs.  Mechs that move 2/3 and don't have a huge amount of firepower beyond 20 hexes (which is sadly true for most superheavies besides the original Omega) are just too easy to either avoid or snipe.

They work a lot better when you can put them somewhere that the enemy wants to be and let the enemy come to them rather than trying to get them to go to the enemy.
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Retry

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #11 on: 05 August 2023, 20:36:37 »
There's one very specific advantage for lighter-end Superheavies: They make good Long Tom platforms.  Conventional 'mechs simply don't have enough crits to mount them.  They're feasible enough to get to 3/5 without breaking the bank and if that's not fast enough, well, you're not going to find too many Long Tom platforms that are faster anyways.

I think there might also be some minor mobility advantages associated with superheavies associated with crossing light forest hexes or something else?  Most of my rulebooks have disappeared into the void, so I'm going exclusively off of memory here.

idea weenie

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #12 on: 05 August 2023, 20:57:04 »
What makes you assume there aren’t artillery, ASF, and lighter elements with a superheavy unit? They were never deployed by themselves in canon.

Wolf’s zeta battalion, for example, would be a unit where superheavies make sense as well. It’s a brick brought in against the targets nothing else has the meat to crack, and works in canon.

If a target is slow enough to need the firepower from a Superheavy and can be caught by something moving 2/3, that is what artillery is for.  One unit fires a C3 Remote Sensor, and if the target is spotted the data is passed back to the artillery unit.  (Can't remember what the artillery-delivered version is called).  If the target is not spotted then the Remote Sensor is shut down or destroyed, and the Expendable Recon unit keeps searching.

(I also figure a couple guys on a cargo truck use a Lift Hoist to pick up and carry the expended 250-kg Remote sensor, so it can be refit for future use.  Each one is ~25,000 C-Bills, so it would be worthwhile to recover them.  I'm sure there's some sort of canon cargo truck that has a cargo bay and a Lift Hoist that can do this job.  Since whatever they are chasing can be caught by a 2/3 Superheavy, this truck doesn't have to be all that fast.)

At least, as long as your force is willing to use artillery.  Mech-carried artillery would be able to go nearly anywhere a SH 'Mech can go.

The other option is a bunch of light and fast VTOLs whose only purpose is to probe closer to the target's expected location, using their high TMM to avoid getting hit.  Once they spot the target they call in artillery and back off.  If the target is mobile, then they will watch to see which direction it goes so the artillery can adjust.  If it is not mobile, their job is to try and spot any hidden exits from the base.


The main problem with SH Mechs for me is that as soon as you go from 100 tons to 105, the Internal Structure goes from 10% to 20% of the Mech's mass.  Assuming standard Internal Structure this increase means the Internal Structure mass goes from 10 tons to 21 tons.  You actually lose capability with a the lighter SH 'Mechs, and the only use I can think of is being able to put enough armor on it to survive a single ortillery shot or a nuclear warhead.

There's one very specific advantage for lighter-end Superheavies: They make good Long Tom platforms.  Conventional 'mechs simply don't have enough crits to mount them.  They're feasible enough to get to 3/5 without breaking the bank and if that's not fast enough, well, you're not going to find too many Long Tom platforms that are faster anyways.

Good point, you'd have a 3/5 all-terrain Long Tom platform.  I completely missed that use, good catch.

I think there might also be some minor mobility advantages associated with superheavies associated with crossing light forest hexes or something else?  Most of my rulebooks have disappeared into the void, so I'm going exclusively off of memory here.

IIRC, SH pay 1 less MP for crossing a hex, minimum of 1.  So Rough terrain that needs 2 MP to cross for a normal Mech would only need 1 MP for a SH.  So if you expect a lot of Rough and Light Woods terrain, then your regular 4/6/0 Mechs will be slowed to 2/3, while your 2/3 SH Mechs won't be affected (ditto for 6/9/0 Mechs and 3/5 SH).

RifleMech

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #13 on: 06 August 2023, 04:16:33 »
Do we have Superheavy Mech Bays now? If so, what book are they in?

Church14

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #14 on: 06 August 2023, 09:58:25 »
Do we have Superheavy Mech Bays now? If so, what book are they in?

AFAIK they are deployed from cargo. The duat just has cargo bays that happen to be about the right size for a hypothetical ares mech bay.

Colt Ward

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #15 on: 06 August 2023, 14:45:39 »
Yeah, if I recall they were also set up as 6 cargo bays on that deck, each 220 tons.
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Wrangler

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #16 on: 06 August 2023, 15:19:40 »
Largest formation of Superheavies has been a Lance (4) machines.  Couple have sprinkled in the Free Worlds League by the Dragoons and Clans have made use of them during the Battle for Terra, but honestly. I don't think their going amount more than couple if less than a lance at time at max.

Production would need resume by interested party, frankly better deployment would be needed.  Assault units sure, but it needs escorts keep small guys off their back.  IF it gets back in production.

I like having them around, but I'm not seeing that in the cards honestly.
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #17 on: 06 August 2023, 18:16:00 »
The Republic deployed their superheavies in massed formations at one point during the battle for Terra, during a counter attack in... I think... central asia.

This was a problem for one chapter before being outmaneuvered and beaten back in the next.

When it comes down to it, if a superheavy isn't just carrying as much artillery as possible and staying way back from the front lines, they're mostly best used as bullet sponges. They're the doom turtles of the Battletech Universe. Either they park somewhere the enemy has to go through, or they walk slowly towards a fixed objective and soak up fire.

Honestly, their slow speed doesn't bother me near as much (especially for tripods who don't spend mp on turns and are much less likely to get knocked down) as their lack of a center torso cockpit option. The more hits you soak, the more likely those hits will find the head.
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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #18 on: 06 August 2023, 18:39:34 »
Ah yes, the head hit issue.  It's already a big problem that slightly reduces the utility of Assault-class 'Mechs as they'll die to an AC/20 or Gauss Rifle headshot no matter what (well, except for some weird armor builds).  Adding 3 extra points of armor ain't doing much to address the issue.

RifleMech

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #19 on: 06 August 2023, 19:20:40 »
AFAIK they are deployed from cargo. The duat just has cargo bays that happen to be about the right size for a hypothetical ares mech bay.

That's what I though. I'm glad I didn't miss anything. Thanks :)
 

Church14

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #20 on: 07 August 2023, 07:42:49 »
The Republic deployed their superheavies in massed formations at one point during the battle for Terra, during a counter attack in... I think... central asia.

This was a problem for one chapter before being outmaneuvered and beaten back in the next.

That was also Hour of the Wolf, literally nothing the RAF had worked in that trash fire. I wouldn’t use it as representative of… anything.

They do appear in another battle in ilclan (Redoubt Volga) with a full company and smashes a cluster before getting swarmed down by another galaxy arriving to the fight.

thesilverback

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #21 on: 11 August 2023, 21:34:58 »
Not really a assault or super heavy player so thanks for all the insight.  i the the cost/ benefit ratio on the superheavies just don't make them worth the use.

Thanks all.
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CJC070

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #22 on: 11 August 2023, 22:05:04 »
Considering that an assault lance only contains 2 or 3 assault mechs it stands to reason that the same logic could apply to a superheavy company.  In my head canon beyond 3150 a superheavy company would have 3-4 superheavy mechs, 3-4 assault mechs, and the rest heavy and medium mechs to act as flankers or scouts.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #23 on: 12 August 2023, 06:17:22 »
In a sense you would probably use Super Heavies like Awesomes or Salamanders: stand in the back and drown the opponent with massive long range fire from whatever weapon you carry. And then use Heavies or Mediums as flanking protection. Plus some Battle armor should anyone come really close. Though would a SuperHeavy be good as a waddling artillery platform? Like a Helepolis but with two artillery guns? I am not sure if that would be even possible to construct

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #24 on: 12 August 2023, 08:44:32 »
You know, it would be interesting to see a Battle Armor supporting Superheavy.  Armed with perhaps couple Artillery Cannons, half dozen machine gun arrays and SRM launchers.

I'm not great mech designer...but...This could be okay Battle Armor / Infantry Support Machine.  It doesn't need be super speedy, just bring hurt to troops held up in buildings.

Code: [Select]
UrbanBrawler UBR-001X
Base Tech Level: Experimental Mixed (Base IS) Level
Era Experimental - Advanced 3145+   Standard
-
Tech Rating: E/X-X-X-F 
Weight: 130 tons
BV: 1,784
Cost: 13,658,857 C-bills 
Movement: 2/3
Engine: 260 Fusion
Double Heat Sinks: 21 [42]
Cockpit: Superheavy Tripod Cockpit
Gyro: Superheavy Gyro 
Internal: 220 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 248/443


                      Internal   Armor
Head                     4    12
Center Torso          39  33
Center Torso (rear) 10
Right Torso            27  24
Right Torso (rear)   7
Left Torso              27  24
Left Torso (rear)     7
Right Arm              21  22
Left Arm                21  22
Right Leg               27  29
Left Leg                 27 29
Center Leg             27 29
 
Weapons                           Loc   Heat
Sniper Cannon                    RA   10
Sniper Cannon                    LA   10
Vehicular Grenade Launcher  RT   1
Vehicular Grenade Launcher  LT   1
Medium Pulse Laser              CT  4
Medium Pulse Laser             CT   4
SRM 4                               RA   3
SRM 4                               LA    3
Plasma Rifle                       CT    10
 
Ammo                       Loc  Shots
Sniper Cannon Ammo RT    10
Sniper Cannon Ammo RT    10
SRM 4 Inferno Ammo  RT    25
SRM 4 Ammo             RT    25
Plasma Rifle Ammo      RT   10
Plasma Rifle Ammo      RT   10

 
Equipment               Loc

CASE II                    RT
ECM Suite (Guardian) CT
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truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #25 on: 22 September 2023, 00:39:26 »
My evil mind says something...

Most of you pay attention, some of you might want or need diapers.

RotS era...

Duat
1 Ares Aphrodite C3M-2nd Aphrodite
  2 Ares Hephaestus C3Slave
1 Ares Aphrodites C3M -1st Aphrodite
  2 Ares Hephaestus C3Slave

2 Archer-9R C3Slave -1st Aphrodite
1 Warhammer -8D - C3Slave -1st Aphrodite

1 Maruader-7C C3Slave -2nd Aphrodite
1 Malice-YZ C3Slave -2nd Aphrodite
1 King Crab-08B C3Slave -2nd Aphrodite

6 Squads of Level I BA

Assault Triumph (3082)
2 Schrack Prime
2 Schrack A
2 Schrack B

12 Mechs

12 Heavy Tanks
8 Light Tanks

16 Squads of Level I BA

Dragau II Interceptor

Pile all of these into a Tramp jumpship

But yeah... 6 SH leading Two separate C3commsnds, 1st and 2nd  Aphrodite are connected to each other and their respective rides. The other units are whatever you're willing to support them.

See you in your nightmares soon,
Truetanker  :evil:

PS: lights don't help either...  :cool:
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #26 on: 22 September 2023, 01:07:31 »
RotS doesn't organize in groups of six.
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truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #27 on: 22 September 2023, 01:33:25 »
Which is why I left openings...

Never said direct connections only listed Masters and Slaves one Master connect two Aphrodite, and  then Master 2 connect Slaves...

Each Aphrodite can connect to 5 other units if need be... And there's two of 'em!

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
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Hellraiser

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #28 on: 22 September 2023, 09:28:42 »
The Superheavy accomodations was a refit- perhaps stripped out another pair of Level IIs?

IIRC it was from a larger cargo bay. 
The "OG/CS" model had more cargo to support the rest of the force in other DS
The Republic model converted the 1 big bay into 7 bays by designating 220 for each SH Bay out of the larger total.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #29 on: 22 September 2023, 09:37:49 »
RotS doesn't organize in groups of six.

My guess is C* planned on using the Duat to support the rest of a L-III or larger taskforce.
It brings in 2 L-2's & had the cargo to support a larger force at nearly 2K tons & the Artillery as well.
Add a Union, Assault Triumph, Condor, Leo-CV and you've got a couple mixed L-IIIs there.


The RotS meanwhile would likely deploy 2 Heavy/Assault lances & a Light Lance using 6 SH + 2 H/A Mechs + a typical 1-2 Med/3-4Light lance.
Basically spotters for the Artillery & the big boys.  That baby Drone Mech would be a solid option as part of the company & to spot.

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Dayton3

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #30 on: 22 September 2023, 19:28:16 »
Maybe this is sacrilegious but after  30 years in BT I'm still wondering why a "lance" consists of four mechs

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #31 on: 23 September 2023, 02:09:32 »
Because a NATO-style tank platoon consists of four tanks, and a flight of fighter jets is four aircraft.  The reasoning is that it can divide into two pairs, each with an overwatch element and a maneuver element, trading off in an advance.
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truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #32 on: 23 September 2023, 12:20:24 »
Gorky voice: In Russia, three is crowd, four is mob. We like crowd, mob equals riot. Russian riots bad.

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
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Hellraiser

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #33 on: 23 September 2023, 14:08:26 »
Only in Russia is 4 a riot.

Everybody else knows "4 is a Fire Team".

Or a night out of couples swinging...   1 or the other.

I guess it all depends on location.
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3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

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Stormlion1

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #34 on: 24 September 2023, 13:36:50 »
We're all missing the Obvious. Tripods should be fielded in groups of three. Because War of the World's
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Hellraiser

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #35 on: 24 September 2023, 14:01:23 »
Technically I think TT & I did that above.

His "Company" is 4 groups of 3.

My 2 "big" lances are 3 Tripods & a Heavy/Assault mech escort.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #36 on: 24 September 2023, 14:39:38 »
Aphrodite CM1 slaved to 2 Hephaestus and Aphrodite CM4
Aphrodite CM2 slaved to 2 Archer and Warhammer

Aphrodite CM3 slaved to Marauder, Malice and King Crab
Aphrodite CM4 slaved to 2 Hephaestus and Aphrodite CM1

If that's better...

Overall, a very scary force. 2 Triple SH leading another Triple of Support each while a another full unit supporting that.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Stormlion1

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #37 on: 24 September 2023, 20:21:13 »
The one Tripod force I have built so far is one Ares with a pair of Triskelion's and a Fulcrum for scouting and harassing. Add Battle Armor to cling to the Ares and you have a very effective force to hold or seize a objective.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #38 on: 25 September 2023, 09:22:57 »
Aphrodite CM1 slaved to 2 Hephaestus and Aphrodite CM4
Aphrodite CM2 slaved to 2 Archer and Warhammer

Aphrodite CM3 slaved to Marauder, Malice and King Crab
Aphrodite CM4 slaved to 2 Hephaestus and Aphrodite CM1

If that's better...

Overall, a very scary force. 2 Triple SH leading another Triple of Support each while a another full unit supporting that.

TT

Doesn't using 2 Aphrodites invalidate C3 network rule of a single mech being part of 2 networks?
I think you can only use it for the Company Commander but you can't make an Aphrodite act as a "double lance" commander w/o being the CO.

Which then brings up the issue that there needs to be an Ares model w/ just a single C3M.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #39 on: 25 September 2023, 10:54:39 »
Not if designated as CO, with the other as subordinate.

Now having said that, the unit in question is just a ride.

Can you provide criteria?

My rule books are packed, I was understanding that it was allowed.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Generalripphook

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #40 on: 25 September 2023, 11:53:17 »
Superheavies are pretty fun to field on the table. They are attention magnets.

Definitely not biased but I have 16

truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #41 on: 25 September 2023, 15:43:29 »
Would love to see more cannon Tripod designs in the other weights.

SLDF, Successor Wars, even a Clan IIC variant.

Something to give us more units to play off...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
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Hellraiser

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #42 on: 25 September 2023, 15:48:27 »
My rule books are packed, I was understanding that it was allowed.

Mine too, but I swore the rule was you can't be apart of 2 lance networks unless you are also the CO unit.

So a 2 C3M unit has to be a lance CM & the Company CM.

You can't have 2 C3M & be the commander of lance B & C both.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #43 on: 25 September 2023, 15:55:33 »
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/C3_command_unit#Game_Rules

I can control a master but not its slaves.

Which is why my 2 Slaves and Master Control 1 Master over that work out, the other controller is for the Slaved Non-Tripod.

Allowing me to use the second unit to assault the corridor while providing it's own Support via the second units C3M. That units 2nd control the support.

I understand it is confusing...

Why I highlight everything in color, blue, green , red and orange per CM.

TT
« Last Edit: 25 September 2023, 16:02:10 by truetanker »
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Metallgewitter

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #44 on: 26 September 2023, 05:41:53 »
While we ar etalking about C3 would a Tripod unit with C3I make more sense? You don't need a Master as every unit is it's own "master" and the network is less susceptible to the destruction of the "master" unit (downside it has no TAg and weigs more which is trivial for a Tripod imho)

truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #45 on: 26 September 2023, 13:17:29 »
Or a Nova CEWS for that matter...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Stormlion1

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #46 on: 26 September 2023, 15:23:16 »
Or a Nova CEWS for that matter...

TT

Might be a good addition to future Clan Wolf Tripod designs. Of course there dishonorable but the Inner Sphere Surats can take the dishonor.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #47 on: 26 September 2023, 16:34:06 »
I don't believe that any Clans in the Inner Sphere ever encountered the Nova CEWS or any other Society tech.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #48 on: 26 September 2023, 18:50:12 »
Not yet...

Who knows what the future holds... TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Stormlion1

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #49 on: 26 September 2023, 19:07:05 »
I don't believe that any Clans in the Inner Sphere ever encountered the Nova CEWS or any other Society tech.

Jade Falcon's fought the Society under Etienne in the Periphery. He would have been using that tech.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #50 on: 27 September 2023, 01:02:20 »
Jade Falcon's fought the Society under Etienne in the Periphery. He would have been using that tech.

Etienne was split from his Clan associates when he was banned from the Clan Homeworlds. So I assume that the tech the Homeworld society created never made it to Etienne's sanctuary. Of course it COULD have propagated to other Clans but so far it hasn't appeared. And I wonder if any IS power can actually manufacture C3I at the moment. The Republic should have the schematics for it unless the Blakists wiped everything from their databases. And maybe we get the next step then: boosted C3I technology

Stormlion1

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #51 on: 27 September 2023, 07:06:59 »
Etienne was split from his Clan associates when he was banned from the Clan Homeworlds. So I assume that the tech the Homeworld society created never made it to Etienne's sanctuary. Of course it COULD have propagated to other Clans but so far it hasn't appeared. And I wonder if any IS power can actually manufacture C3I at the moment. The Republic should have the schematics for it unless the Blakists wiped everything from their databases. And maybe we get the next step then: boosted C3I technology

Split yes, but he was a leader of the Society and from his threats he still had access to the Clan Homeworlds and trade with other Society cells. It's even noted he received reinforcements from the Clan Homeworlds even after he relocated into the Periphery. So it's a very good chance mechs with Nova CEWs or the systems themselves also made it out there.

It's more of a question if the Falcons recovered it rather than leaving everything to rot.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #52 on: 27 September 2023, 09:23:56 »
Split yes, but he was a leader of the Society and from his threats he still had access to the Clan Homeworlds and trade with other Society cells. It's even noted he received reinforcements from the Clan Homeworlds even after he relocated into the Periphery. So it's a very good chance mechs with Nova CEWs or the systems themselves also made it out there.

It's more of a question if the Falcons recovered it rather than leaving everything to rot.

If he had any they probably were destroyed when the Falcons bombarded his planet to dust. I somehow suspected that the Horses might have access to it as they also gained access to Ultraheavy Proto's which were an invention of the society but so far we haven't seen it.

truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #53 on: 27 September 2023, 12:19:16 »
Well before the IS Taint showed up, CHH had pushed their own OZ Corridor. Zeta Galaxy ( Clan Stone Lion after the WoR ) held the Clan's Homeworld of Niles as well as their defensive outlying Enclaves.

Officially, Horses, and maybe Lions, would have the Nova CEWS for their vehicles, but so far that's a dirty end. No current Homie love, barely any forward motion in universe, more about IlClan than anything else.

TT
« Last Edit: 27 September 2023, 12:21:19 by truetanker »
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Stormlion1

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #54 on: 28 September 2023, 09:19:00 »
I'd bet the tech was in the Inner Sphere but just hadn't been given much research into it because it is Society Tech. It's just gear in a warehouse, unresearched and gathering dust.
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truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #55 on: 28 September 2023, 13:42:00 »
Well let's look at history, pre-ilClan.

Falcons killed over 60% or more of their Scientist Caste, 35% Labour and Merchant associated with the Society.

Wolf not nearly as much, probably in the lower 8%, again associated with Society.

Bear not so much, more refitting their realm either from or preparing for conflicts, say 1% of any.

Assuming the Society got transferred at all.

Diamond Shark/Sea Fox is unknown... Mostly the "middleman" here.

But what falls off a transport "accidentally", we'll never know...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #56 on: 28 September 2023, 16:47:16 »
IIRC, the Society failed to make inroads into the Shark or Bear lower castes.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Metallgewitter

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #57 on: 29 September 2023, 01:41:14 »
The same goes for the Vipers and Spirirts. The Bears had the benefit of removing themselves way ahead of any "corruption" while the Sharks focus on economy made it hard for any Shark scientist to garner much weight for the society.
The Vipers and Spirits on the other hand are so rigid that the society could not get a foothold or rather considered them "useless". The example I rememebr is that Viper scientists were notoroius for debating any new idea throwing trials around just to proove they are right.

Stormlion1

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #58 on: 29 September 2023, 12:06:39 »
The Blood Spirits hated every other Clan with a passion. Talking to them is like slamming your head into a brick wall. I am Blood Spirit. All others are Surats.
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.

truetanker

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Re: Superheavy Company?
« Reply #59 on: 29 September 2023, 12:44:02 »
I'll assume at least the Society got a toe grip in every Clan, some rooted, Falcons, some withered, Shark/Fox, but others are isolated cells, quietly alone and not making waves.

What's stopping a new cell from completing the ultimate Society goal(s)?

And assumes they're a dead end, never to be seen again?

Several factions have been redeemed and resurrected before.

Niops, Mica, RWR (Escape from Castle Wulfensteiner) and the hints dropped in the various ISP books.

I know Wulfensteiner is Non-Canon, but the idea of a "dead" faction's lost outpost is still a valid idea.

Every once in a while, CGL drops subtle hints, like bread crumbs, not obvious enough, cryptic almost, but they're there.

Still missing : two "Hidden" worlds, not yet discovered. Several major WoB units disappeared completely en masse. And a few other oddities, here and there..

TT
« Last Edit: 29 September 2023, 12:49:37 by truetanker »
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

 

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