R variants of IS omnis

[Kerfuffin(925)]

So I was looking at the first-gen IS omnis on Sarna and saw again their R (bulldog and serpent) variants.

Do you all think these became more and more common over time as clan tech became more common in IS designs? Or were these kinda operational knowledge variants only that never really saw service again outside of the Taskforces? The MUL lists them as sticking around but I don’t think there is any precedent for removing a Omni variant that isn’t unique over time.

I’d wager with all the mixed tech IS production and the a Foxes running around by more modern times they are basically just another variant.

[Minemech]

Omni variants do go out like the pariah W Perseus, but there is generally an impetus behind it. Clan tech as you noted is far more common among Inner Sphere forces so the R versions are simply other choices. Field upgrades can become standard designs, perhaps a good example is the HER-5Sr Hermes II.

[truetanker]

It's not just IS, Clans get tossed into using them as well.

Freebirth use...

TT

[Church14]

I imagine if the IS Omnis got a RecGuide style treatment, we’d get four or so variants each of various mixed tech weapons as the houses start building their own.

[Colt Ward]

I imagine if the IS Omnis got a RecGuide style treatment, we’d get four or so variants each of various mixed tech weapons as the houses start building their own.

I would agree with this . . . especially since based on comments we will eventually get a re-issue of them with new art.  I think the Gen 1s would get issued all at once, but the Gen 2s being faction specific it would work for them to end up in the FM link 3150 box . . maybe with the TRO3145 faction Omni too, FREX the Cappies get a box with a Men Shen & Vandal.

What would be interesting, IMO, is the Gen1s getting a 'T' version of the Prime and being 90% Clan weapons.  So like the Black Hawk KU would carry 6 cERMLs & 4 cMPL instead of the IS versions along with either cERSL or Micro Pulse and the kicker being 2 Clan DHS instead of IS versions.  I mean, who would not want to run something like that?

[Hellraiser]

and the kicker being 2 Clan DHS instead of IS versions. ?

Can you actually do that?
For some reason I thought you had to pick a HS Type and stick w/ it, no mixing HS even in "mixed tech".
The only exception was the Proto-DHS from 3039 (or Age of War)

[Colt Ward]

Only thing I recall is 'DHS or SHS' but I am not sure . . .

Other thing that might be interesting for a Black Hawk KU to control it's heat a bit more- since Clan energy weapons are cooler- use a pair of Chem Lasers instead of cERML, so 4 cERML, 4 cMPL, 2 Chem MLs, 2 cERSL . . . but you would have to drop one of those DHS for the ChemML ammo.

[Church14]

I would agree with this . . . especially since based on comments we will eventually get a re-issue of them with new art.  I think the Gen 1s would get issued all at once, but the Gen 2s being faction specific it would work for them to end up in the FM link 3150 box . . maybe with the TRO3145 faction Omni too, FREX the Cappies get a box with a Men Shen & Vandal.

What would be interesting, IMO, is the Gen1s getting a 'T' version of the Prime and being 90% Clan weapons.  So like the Black Hawk KU would carry 6 cERMLs & 4 cMPL instead of the IS versions along with either cERSL or Micro Pulse and the kicker being 2 Clan DHS instead of IS versions.  I mean, who would not want to run something like that?

Some WYSIWYG “T” variants of the classic IS Omnis would be good stuff. I refuse to believe there would be some new variants in DA/ilClan.

[Colt Ward]

Some WYSIWYG “T” variants of the classic IS Omnis would be good stuff. I refuse to believe there would be some new variants in DA/ilClan.

Huh?  you seem to be contradicting yourself.

[Church14]

Huh?  you seem to be contradicting yourself.

Oops. Typo.

I refuse to believe there would not be new variants.

[Colt Ward]

Oops. Typo.

I refuse to believe there would not be new variants.

Ok!  THAT I can buy . . . Plasma Rifles, TSEMP, iNARC, Clan weapons, all sorts of things could be available.  Lots of fun stuff possible.

You know what would also be interesting, the old prototype 'freezers' being put on the Striders & Owens.

[Hellraiser]

Other thing that might be interesting for a Black Hawk KU to control it's heat a bit more- since Clan energy weapons are cooler- use a pair of Chem Lasers instead of cERML, so 4 cERML, 4 cMPL, 2 Chem MLs, 2 cERSL 

Or, go "S" style with it.
6 MPLc, 4 ERSLc, 2 SPLc, for the weapon ports w/ option of DHS/C3S/TAG for the last ton.

[Colt Ward]

Or, go "S" style with it.
6 MPLc, 4 ERSLc, 2 SPLc, for the weapon ports w/ option of DHS/C3S/TAG for the last ton.

The Ts were using the Prime and the BHK's Prime was to mimic the Nova, IMO it would be more interesting to do that than the S.  No TAG b/c you do not have a gun port, unless you drop one of the Smalls to be TAG- which is fine too IMO.

[Hellraiser]

The S-style above is designed to mimic the Prime but w/ lower heat weapons.

[Colt Ward]

I understand, my personal preference would be that it more closely mimics the Nova Prime b/c the BHK Prime could not due to heat sinks.  The BHK Prime is more like the Nova S anyways.

Edit-
Just realized the way designations work with IS Omnis, it would be -OT . . . new challenge to TPTB, each must somehow play on Over Time!

[truetanker]

S designation is for Scout.

Criteria needs jumpjets for urban movement and weapons that negates jump to-hits, also some type of AP mount(s).

TT

[Kerfuffin(925)]

S designation is for Scout.

Criteria needs jumpjets for urban movement and weapons that negates jump to-hits, also some type of AP mount(s).

TT

That’s not true?

S was the clan invasions City fighters.
There aren’t any IS first rounders with a S variant.
Most clan mechs past the OG 16 don’t have them.


I am looking forward to seeing what happens with the IS omnis and hope they follow up the R variants with some other good stuff.

[Arkansas Warrior]

S designation is for Scout.

Criteria needs jumpjets for urban movement and weapons that negates jump to-hits, also some type of AP mount(s).

TT

I thought S was for "short-ranged".  All of those configs are focused on short-ranged weapons (and mobility).

[Hellraiser]

I don't know if it was ever stated to be a specific "term" for the S.

But yes, all of them were fairly Short Ranged w/ the LPL being the "long gun" for several.

They started out as City-Tech 2nd Edition variants IIRC for the 4 mechs included w/ CT2E.

SRMs, Pulse, & MGs were all fairly common as were JJ's.

And I think a couple new ones showed up in the Tukayid Book?  Or Rec Guides so that now we have like 6-7 of them instead of the OG 4.

[Church14]

I thought S was for "short-ranged".  All of those configs are focused on short-ranged weapons (and mobility).

Nah. S is for Sity Fighting.

No, I’m not taking that back

[tassa_kay]

I don't know if it was ever stated to be a specific "term" for the S.

To add to the pile, most recently the Ravens have been using the S for their space-ops Omni configs.

[truetanker]

I've always been under the impression it was S for Scouting, Urban combat and as it is the only ones built with jumpjets, Space.

Most Omnis of the '50s and '60s we're not designed with those until Jihad era.

Pod-mounted was a thing... Officially, one could mount them only if assigned, you couldn't remove something for them. RS and all...

So, yeah...

OTIH, there's : 9 Dire Wolf variants in 3049...

TT

[Hellraiser]

OTIH, there's : 9 Dire Wolf variants in 3049...

You say that like its a bad thing?   
50.5 tons is a LOT of pod space.
Gotta try out all the different ideas, lol

[truetanker]

You say that like its a bad thing?   

I am, there's no Arrow variant, no Space Adaption, well the S could but no fuel tank for extended operations. Also, while I'm on it, why couldn't some of them be redesigned as an Armed Cargo carrier?

Couple of Energy weapons, and half podspace in cargo.

Just an idea,
TT
(I have those for my table, it saves me headaches later.)

[Metallgewitter]

I am, there's no Arrow variant, no Space Adaption, well the S could but no fuel tank for extended operations. Also, while I'm on it, why couldn't some of them be redesigned as an Armed Cargo carrier?

Just wait until some bright head decides to mount a Long Tom on a Dire Wolf and calls it the Boomstick configuration

[truetanker]

I have, haven't you yet?

TT

[Metallgewitter]

Now I am trying to shoehorn 2 Sniper Guns onto a Dire Wolf. would that even work?

[Ruger]

Now I am trying to shoehorn 2 Sniper Guns onto a Dire Wolf. would that even work?

Sniper Artillery Pieces? Yes by mass, no by critical spaces.

Sniper Artillery Cannons? Yes to both.

Ruger

[Shin_Fenris]

Sniper Artillery Pieces? Yes by mass, no by critical spaces.

Sniper Artillery Cannons? Yes to both.

Ruger

That's a special kind of sick that I like to see.

[Metallgewitter]

So coming back to a dual Sniper armed Dire Wolf.

If I have this right it would only be possible to build it if you strip the arms of it's actuators. Would that be possible? I mean it IS an Omni Mech and it would have 10 tons left for other equipment but I am not so well versed in the construction rules.

[Hellraiser]

Tube arti doesn't seem to be a clan thing really.

I'd be fine with a double Arrow configuration w/ plenty of ammo & some supporting guns to keep back stabbers honest.

[Metallgewitter]

There could always be the odd Dragoon who decides to copy Thor's Hammers

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Tube arti doesn't seem to be a clan thing really.

IIRC they still have access to it.  And even if it's not Clantech, mixed tech configurations are both legal and common by the Dark Age.

So coming back to a dual Sniper armed Dire Wolf.

If I have this right it would only be possible to build it if you strip the arms of it's actuators. Would that be possible? I mean it IS an Omni Mech and it would have 10 tons left for other equipment but I am not so well versed in the construction rules.

Yes, hand and lower arm actuators can be removed from an omni configuration with no issues unless the variant mounts fixed equipment that requires them to be present (such as a hatchet).  Though I know of no canon omnimechs that mount fixed equipment like that.  In fact, it's very common for omnimechs to swap out arm actuators between configurations: PPCs, autocannons of all types, and Gauss Rifles that are arm-mounted in an omnimech require that the hand and lower arm actuators be removed from that arm.

[Hellraiser]

IIRC they still have access to it.   

Oh they do, its more, we just don't see them use it. 
Arrow is already rare but at least we see options to use that.
I think the only Tube we see is the rare SLDF Thor/Marksman on the garrison Vehicle RATs.

[MarauderD]

Was thinking about this thread.  I don't know what the fate will be of the 1st Generation Omni's with all the mechs that have received new stats these days.  They certainly are still in production around the Inner Sphere, and probably represent in numbers the largest portion of OmniMechs in use by the Great Houses.

If, and that is a huge If, they got released in plastic, I think they would need new stats to make them relevant, just like the classics received.  (Case II on the Sunder, I'm looking at you....) New R versions, or just an RR/R2 designation with a couple modern touches could bring them into the 32nd Century.  I don't know what we'd do with the single heat sink Owens and Strider, but continuing to use a blend of low power energy and Missile Weapons could work on those platforms.  Not exactly sure.

[Hellraiser]

With all the built in Electronics on the Owens, I don't see the SHS as a "huge" problem, more an oversight.

The limited pod space can pretty easily be filled w/ more Electronics & some low heat weapon options.

The Strider is, IMO, destined for some MML/ATM configurations to give it some variable ranges while still being low heat.

They could release "Block-II" models since Luthien was wiped out anyway, stuff put into production in the Republic era to fix things like the DHS & all the Fixed CASE & JJs

[MarauderD]

With all the built in Electronics on the Owens, I don't see the SHS as a "huge" problem, more an oversight.

The limited pod space can pretty easily be filled w/ more Electronics & some low heat weapon options.

The Strider is, IMO, destined for some MML/ATM configurations to give it some variable ranges while still being low heat.

They could release "Block-II" models since Luthien was wiped out anyway, stuff put into production in the Republic era to fix things like the DHS & all the Fixed CASE & JJs

I get confused on the CASE/CASE II rules.  They can't be pod mounted?  Even Clan CASE II?  If they have to be fixed equipment, I can see that being sticky.

[Hellraiser]

CASE & CASE-II are both able to be added/removed as part of Pods.

That rule wasn't clarified when TRO3058/60 were introduced so you see Fixed CASE on some of the early omnis & the Hauptman as well off the top of my head.

Later IS Omnis tend to not have fixed CASE since it had been clarified that they can pod it as needed.

[ThePW]

OTIH, there's : 9 Dire Wolf variants in 3049...

TT

You are counting the NAMED Ones with the list. If you placed yourself in the shoes of a Technician (Dragoon or Warden-isk Wolf in 3049) You are only counting the 4 known in 1991 as approved versions to configure your assets. The stats on the named ones (like Widowmaker, Kurita, Victor) would eventually become known as word eventually spreads via the many means but other than that caveat, the Direwolf has 4 common and several more uncommon/rare Individual configurations.

[Hellraiser]

Now I'm curious....

TRO:  Prime, A, B

RetCon Adds:  S, W

Uniques:  Natasha, Victor, Hohiro.

I count 8 just going by memory, but I know there are supposed to be 2 more for Natasha/Phelan trials but not sure if there are stats/RS for those or not.

I'm sure there is something I'm missing.

[truetanker]

Now I'm curious....

TRO:  Prime, A, B

RetCon Adds:  S, W

Uniques:  Natasha, Victor, Hohiro.

I count 8 just going by memory, but I know there are supposed to be 2 more for Natasha/Phelan trials but not sure if there are stats/RS for those or not.

I'm sure there is something I'm missing.

There's two Natasha...

TT

[Arkansas Warrior]

Sarna lists 12, not counting named customs: Prime, A, B, C, D, E, H, S, T, U, W, and X.

[truetanker]

Heavy laser, ATMs don't count until Dark Ages/Jihad.

Talking late 40s to mud 50s.

TT

[Arkansas Warrior]

Missed that.  Carry on.