AU/What if: Very Early Clan tech weapons begin production in the IS pre invasion

[Izzy193]

Point of Divergence here is 3029-3052, What if companies either on purpose or by accident develop tech that is considered very early clan tech. such as the weapons listed below. which house(s) would introduce what from the listed below first and how?


Improved LRMs
Improved SRMs
Improved Gauss Rifle
Improved Standard Autocannons
Clan Machine Guns
Improved PPCs
Enhanced ERPPCs
Improved Large laser
Improved Large Pulse Laser

How long would it take for this tech to become common in this what if, assuming ComStar Allows it? Also how would the crusader clans respond to such a revelation when encountered? how much mileage would the houses and mercs get out of this very early clan tech development before and during the clan invasion?

Note I am limiting the list to just what is above. this scenario also assumed ComStar Allows this to happen(with caveats to maintain status quo amongst the houses and mercs/pirates). I know this is a unlikely scenario, but I want to hear you guys and girls thoughts taking the assumptions taking caveats into account. I'm giving you free reign to sort these into intro years(in the context of the scenario). Anyone Inner sphere, merc/pirate ,periphery or Clan Player alike can answer these question.

[AlphaMirage]

I started with the Improved Large Laser in the late 3030s  as it is the option with the highest ROI IMO, then moved onto the iPPC/iLPL in the early 3040s, followed by the Enhanced ERPPC in my Golden Lion AU for the mid 3040s. For the most part (sans the Dragoons and friends) the Inner Sphere haven't gotten to Improved missile launchers but I'd go for the SRMs first, followed by the ballistics, and finishing with LRMs (the most dramatically improved).

COMSTAR has copied this tech as it is certainly within their capabilities but it got out of control and couldn't be SHROUDed away.
The Clans in my AU, and probably any, have treated these technological improvement as the dire threat they are. They have attempted to accelerate their conquests in order to nip this technological renaissance in the bud before it could pose a threat they couldn't manage (alongside the Annihilation of the traitorous Dragoons).

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'd expect the LRMs to be done considerably faster than the Gauss Rifle, ERPPC, or Large Pulse Laser, since they're all lostech and the Inner Sphere was still working on getting them up to Star League spec during and after the War of 39.

[AlphaMirage]

I'd expect the LRMs to be done considerably faster than the Gauss Rifle, ERPPC, or Large Pulse Laser, since they're all lostech and the Inner Sphere was still working on getting them up to Star League spec during and after the War of 39.

Maybe but Dead-Fire LRM missiles exist and I'd suspect something like NLRMs to show up first to limit the minimum range penalty (without to much of a mass penalty). Those do exist in Golden Lion, as do ELRMs, but they are uncommon. In my AU (and Canon) Endo-Steel is still pretty uncommon, start up costs are high and production is limited and mostly reserved for Mech Chassis as it would be a bigger draw on the limited zero-g foundry infrastructure.

Think of it like this, if an cLRM-5 uses 1 ton of ES for the launcher body, that's a Locust's skeleton. Which would you rather have?
I suspect the Clans being space based and inheriting the orbital foundries necessary have no trouble making enough ES to satisfy the omnipod and mech chassis' demand for the material.

[Metallgewitter]

Would Comstar allow this? Good question though I would be inclined to say yes. They tried to stop the propagation of the Helm memory core and it failed. Plus they didn't even try to hinder the slow renaissance of new Mech introductions (Merlin, Hatchetman, Wolfhound). From that point they seemed to have decided to manipulate the Houses against each other without trying to starve them of their tech base. Remmeber even the covert strike on the NAIS failed and that was the only chance to destroy the FedCom's copy of the Helm memory core.

But here is another question: how sucessful would have been the intial Clan invasion if the IS had early Clan tech weaponry in huge quantities available? I would assume it would have taken way longer or it might have even failed as the IS always had the numerical advantage and they wouldn't even think of using Zellbriggen against the Clans. The one true advantage the Clans had were their Warships at the start of the invasion. Their A/F corps was, according to the lore, weaker then that of the IS (despite the technological advantages) and if the IS had better Battlemechs at the start the fights would have been more drawn out, something the Invasion Clans were not used to.

[ThePW]

You give all the nice shiney weapons to your Periphery Marches and Military Districts all you want (YOU GET A ERPPC! YOU GET A ERPPC!) but if your forces still end up needing 11s and 12s to hit, it doesn't matter, WHAT You give (maybe pulse lasers, TCs and C3?)

this is a topic that you can talk for days about but you still have to explain IN DETAIL those improvements (and how you BV2 them) because savy or experienced players can still beat the clans at their own game...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Weapons that have boosted range do much better for getting TNs down that IS pulse lasers do.

[Von Jankmon]

There were canon improved weaponry prior to the Helm core recovery.  Primitive double heat sinks and Listen-Kill missiles come to mind.  The Inner Sphere had turned the corner on technological stagnation and was starting to recover.
Had the clans tarried then the IS would have slowly begun to catch up technologically, even if the Helm core was not found.  That just made it the recovery far faster.

Now if technological proliferation had occurred pre invasion would it have made a difference.

The answer is no.  When all is said and done the clans biggest advantage other than surprise was the concentration of assets in one portion of known space.  The clans could drop as many mechs as it wanted in the invasion corridor, they had the logistics for it. Habitually they brought more assets to the battlezone than they actually deployed.  Had the IS the capability to put up more of a fight due to a slightly closed technological gap then successful bids would be proportionally higher and the clans would use more assets than they otherwise did.

[RifleMech]

Are we going by the early books where recovered SL Tech was rare at best or current rule books were all recovered SL Tech was common by 3040? The Clans got as far as they did in part because of the tech gap between them and the IS. With SL Tech the Clan Invasion would have stalled sooner. With Improved Tech, it would have stalled even sooner than that.

Yes, the Clans had troops they didn't use but they didn't need them because their tech advantage allowed them to overwhelm IS forces who were shocked by what they could do. The surprise at Clan Tech wouldn't have been nearly as great if the IS had SL Tech, and even less so with Improved Tech. Add in IS units being more effective with advanced tech and the Clans would have had to use those extra forces much sooner.  Even if additional Clans had joined the invasion I don't think they'd of gotten as far. They would have had to fight each other for worlds, not just for their own supply lines but for the right to attack worlds as the invasion corridor narrows. That helps the IS.

Also it only took 5-10 years for recovered SL Tech to become common. It took even less time for the IS to reverse engineer Clan Tech and expand their own weapon classes. If Improved Tech were prototyped by the IS in the 3040s it'd be common before or during the Clan Invasion. If the IS can produce Improved Tech they'd be able to produce Clan Tech once they obtain it. That means they'd be producing Clan Tech during the 3050s and 3060s. Between producing Clan Tech and their numbers the IS would be able to push the Clans back. Maybe even expel them if Comstar joined the fight.

With the Clans not invading as far, and possibly getting kicked out, the FedCom wouldn't have collapsed as Katherine wouldn't have had as much to work with. It's possible Hanse may not even had died as he wasn't under as much stress.

I think it's possible there still would have been a second Star League. I do think it'd be different though. I don't think the CC would have joined but they wouldn't have been forced to with most of the new SLDF's attention towards the Clans. The Hegemony may have been reformed in part with Victor and Omi as the First Lord and Lady. Neither would inherit their home realms to help keep the peace between DC and FC. I think WoB still would have broken off but they'd be a lot smaller. They'd still help the FWL which I think would have joined. Katherine would still scheme but she wouldn't be as ruthless as she'd know she'd be first in line for the FC. She'd prefer to be First Lord but Kurita wouldn't accept that.  If the 2nd SL learns the Clan's location, they'll launch their refusal trial. If not, they'll be building up the SLDF, and rebuilding their House forces for when the Clans return or they find the Clans.

The biggest change would be with the Clans. Whether or not they say in the IS, the invading Clans would be bloodied. That opens the door to other Clans to try to settle some scores. The Society may even been able to get their tech accepted, maybe even some reforms if the IS invades.

I'm not sure if any Clans will join the 2nd SL. I do think they'll be offered a seat to keep a second invasion from happening.