Author Topic: A newbies attempt to answer his own questions. And comes up with more..  (Read 12537 times)

AnejoDave

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My questions in Quotes, answers from searching forums in Regular text.  Unanswered bits in Red.  Comments Requested on everything.  Blue is for Quotes from others

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How the hell do I even get started with this whole 'painting minis' thing?  I tried back in the day, but was barely more advanced than 'Paint on Primer, apply paint(poorly), Base."  and I want to do better this time around.  I saw how awesome mini's could look at GenCon and want to attempt to get close to that.  I know I've got a long way to go though.

Uh, dude, you gotta get more specific than that

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Okay then, lets start from the beginning.  I just bought this totally awesome 25th Anniversary Boxed set.  Its got plastic minis in it.  They're not the most detailed things in the world, but thats why I bought an Akuma (Kurita FTW!) from IWM too.  Some of these plastic Mini's (Zeus, Grasshopper?, Awesome) have indentations(holes) that look like they were part of the mold to help secure the mini.  How do I hide those?

AnejoDave needs an answer on this one, though he suspects it involves modeling clay or something similar


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Okay, then there's extra plastic bits of plastic from the molding process that are on the model, whats the best tool for getting rid of that?

Try some of these.
http://www.testors.com/product/136936/8941/_/Needle_Files_%2810%29
http://www.testors.com/product/136936/8940/_/Sprue_Cutter
http://www.testors.com/product/136936/8943/_/Pin_Vice_with_5_Drills
Can be bought at Hobby Lobby and other locations models are sold. 
What about Army Painter stuff?

Just go slow, be careful and you'll be fine.


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Now that I've filed and cut and done other things to the mini's, there's gunk on them.  And probably gunk from the factory.  Whats the best way to wash them?

Wash in soap and water.  Dish soap is fine.  Consider a hair dryer on low, and at range.  Let dry overnight. 


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Okay, then we're on to priming.  I used to use this paint on primer.  But then when I went back at a failed attempt a few years ago to paint all these mini's I had lying around, I used the GW white primer and it was AWSOME.  But its like $10/can or something stupid.  Is there a cheaper option?

Mastergunz of CSO says Krylon Flat Black/White or Colorplace: Flat Equipment Grey from Wal-mart.  Use two Coats. 
Quote from: MasterGunz

Don't get me wrong, brush on works just as well but I don't like how time consuming it is. I would rather just spray, let dry, spray, let dry overnight. Viola! a bunch of mini's ready for paint

AnejoDave asks how long you let the first coat dry for?  few hours? 


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So I live in an apartment.  Whats the best way to setup an in Apartment option for spray-priming.  Can I use something like a Paper box in my bathroom with the vent fan running?
Whose got an answer on this?


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Okay, so now I'm ready to move on to my Akuma.  What Glue am I using?

Zap-A-Gap Green seems to be the popular option around these parts, but others will give you other options as well.
Krazy Glue Gel

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What about Paints?  Some of them seem expensive.  As a Guy just starting, I dont have the $234 for the Valejio Game Color Starter kit. 

So I've seem GW, Valeijo, Model Masters, and Reaper.  I know others use stuff from Jo-Ann's and other cheaper stuff.  I'm seriously considering Model Masters to start with as its in expensive. 

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Brushes are more important, where do I start?  I swear I saw a tutorial the other day around here about them, but can't find it

I think that about sums it up.

As you guys answer questions and I start the Journey into painting the box set mini's, I'll be posting pictures.  Thank you!



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Hey Catalyst, I know it must have been expensive, but why can't the rest of the mini's be of the same level of quality as the Loki and Thor in the 25th Anv Box set?
« Last Edit: 14 August 2011, 14:36:08 by AnejoDave »
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phlop

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Try some of these.
http://www.testors.com/product/136936/8941/_/Needle_Files_%2810%29
http://www.testors.com/product/136936/8940/_/Sprue_Cutter
http://www.testors.com/product/136936/8943/_/Pin_Vice_with_5_Drills
Can be bought at Hobby Lobby and other locations models are sold. 
What about Army Painter stuff?

Just go slow, be careful and you'll be fine.

I will answer this one first, as this gets you started to cleaning up your minis. Use a new exacto blade that you can get at any hobby store. (Michaels, Hobby Lobby, or a model train store.) Cut the excess plastic away, smoothing out the mold lines. You can also use it on the circle indentations that come from the mold. If there are small slivers that don't seem to want to come off, you can use a lit candle and melt the slivers. Just be careful to not melt the mini.
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AnejoDave

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I'm confused, how exactly would I use a knife to fill in a hole made by the casting process?

And lets be clear, i'm not talking about just the Plastic stuff.  I'm also quite concerned with how these techniques apply to the RP/IWM models
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Psycho

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Uh, dude, you gotta get more specific than that

Practice. Don't be fooled into thinking that if you get some tips, read some articles, and watch some videos that you'll magically know what you're doing. Painting styles are as individual as painters, and it will take time to develop both your skills and your style. Tutorials and the like will help, but nothing replaces the time spent with brush in hand. The specifics will come as you grow and encounter problems that you can tackle one at a time.

AnejoDave needs an answer on this one, though he suspects it involves modeling clay or something similar

An epoxy putty like greenstuff (kneadatite) is good to get to know. There are numerous variations and re-packagings to choose from, and for jobs like that, the differences will be minimal.

Priming: like paint brands, everybody will have their own preferences. I use Tamiya, white and grey,  spray-on. It dries very quickly and very smooth. I too live in an apartment. If you've got a balcony, it's gold. I have a box dedicated to spraying minis in. It's nothing special, just a cardboard box that I lay on it's side and then put the minis in. It prevents getting paint all over, and isn't too likely to blow away. In our old apartment we had a storage room off the kitchen that I'd spray in during the colder months. Go in, spray fast, get out and close the door.... In our new place we don't have that, and I'm considering using the bathroom as well. Just be sure to put down some extra protection from paint settling onto unintended surfaces. If you've got easy access to a parking garage, that may help too with moderating the temperature and cutting the wind factor.

So I've seem GW, Valeijo, Model Masters, and Reaper.  I know others use stuff from Jo-Ann's and other cheaper stuff.  I'm seriously considering Model Masters to start with as its in expensive. 

Yeah, don't knock yourself out on paints when you're just starting. 90% of how the mini turns out is in the skills and techniques of the painter. Expensive paint won't make you better - it won't hurt either, but chances are you won't be able to tell the difference between paint that cost $1 or $4. I still use mostly Delta Ceramcoat. If you look to craft paints, be very wary of any that are marked as being translucent or semi-opaque. They won't cover well, and will require many coats for even coverage, often obscuring detail in the process. Anything in the yellow to red range will often be more translucent regardless of brand, even the expensive ones.

Brushes: again, I wouldn't drop a bundle right away. It's human nature to need to figure things out for yourself, so you'll probably destroy more than a few brushes along the way before it sinks in that you do need to watch out for them and give them some care (let alone how to do that). I did. What you'll need will depend on your techniques. These days I can typically get by with a larger brush for base coats and if I'm doing an all-over wash, a 1 for most panel work, and a 5/0 or similar for details. You may have other needs.

Now what's really important in all of this: enjoy painting. You won't be a master overnight, so celebrate when you learn something new or complete a piece you're proud of. Keep the fun in it.

AnejoDave

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Okay, as I manged to cut myself not a minute into trimming my first mini, what do you guys do/use to prevent cuts?
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CranstonSnord

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For plastics, the most important thing is to cut away from your body and hands. When trimming plastic flash with a hobby knife, I find it works best to move the blade back and forth as you cut. I.e., don't scrape it along, but cut it like a piece of meat. Try to take a little off at a time, until the line is gone.

phlop

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Yes, taking small cuts of plastic where the mold line is better than trying to get all in one swipe.

If you have a hole, then green stuff or epoxy putty will fill the hole. Then sand or file to smooth out the filled area.
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Okay, as I manged to cut myself not a minute into trimming my first mini, what do you guys do/use to prevent cuts?


chainmail gloves.  yeah...just kidding. sorry to say this, but cuts, scrapes, and stab wounds are part of the hobby. hell, you may even have to visit an ER for stitches- yep, i know from experience. the only thing you can do is be as careful as possible. knives are NOT multi-tools. they are not meant for prying or drilling, etc, etc. they are meant for cutting. the best way to remove mold lines is to get a set of mini files. they are not too expensive and you will wonder how you ever got along without them once you start using them.

you know....might as well add Band-aids and peroxide to your equipment list, too.
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AnejoDave

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This was a bit of extra plastic(like a peice of a plastic tube used to secure the plastic in the mold, or something) coming out of a shoulder.  Looks like it was trimmed at the corner by plyers, but not too closely.  I made it right :p  and cut myself.
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cavingjan

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Applebarrel is a decent cheap paint that is available at Michaels and Walmarts.

Get decent brushes but not overly expensive ones. Finer tipped ones should be the better ones since your larger brushes will probably end up being used for drybrushing.

Brush care is important. See the CSO tutorial on brushcare.

Brush care is important. (Yes that important.) Take care of your brushes.


AnejoDave

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Pine Sol and SimpleGreen for stripping.  Do you use it straight, or dilute it?
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phlop

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I use them straight up, just like my whiskey.  :D
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When washing anything, make sure to have a strainer over the drain.

Dr Lucky

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This was a bit of extra plastic(like a peice of a plastic tube used to secure the plastic in the mold, or something) coming out of a shoulder.  Looks like it was trimmed at the corner by plyers, but not too closely.  I made it right :p  and cut myself.

For big chuncks of stuff, don't try to cut them off with an x-acto blade.  For thick pieces, the easiest thing to do is use a sprue cutter.  You ususally have to clean up the cut afterwards with your knife, but it is easier and safer than trying to force the knife through a lot of material.

Eldragon

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Just going to toss in my $0.02:

Dull Coat (or Gloss Coat) is your friend. It smooths out imperfections and can make even a crappy paintjob look good.

I don't spray paint or spray prime any mini, ever. The paint can build up in the cracks and ruin the fine detail.

If you are worried about waiting for things to dry, work on two or three minis at once. By the time the second mini is done, the first mini is dry. Almost every paint scheme I do is in pairs for that very reason.

Going to reiterate that brush care is important. Try as I might, I've never been able to keep a brush in perfect condition forever. Eventually the tip just wears out.  Unless I'm priming, I actually only use one brush, but I have 10 of them, each in various states of wear. The finer detail the work, the newer the brush for the job.

I use Testors enamel (I think its also called Model Masters). Its $1.30 for each color at Hobby Lobby. I swear by it. as Psycho said, its not the paint, but the painter.

If you are not ready to spring for "Green Stuff" to plug holes, wood putty also works.


AnejoDave

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What is this 'Green Stuff' people talk about so much?
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greatsarcasmo

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Two part epoxy putty. Also sold by Milliput.
Spray primering is fine, as long as you do it in thin coats.

What is this 'Green Stuff' people talk about so much?
Maker of big things.

AnejoDave

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So If I have an arm that fell off, and there's hardend glue in the socket of the Torso, whats the best way to clean that off?


If I want to undo an (old) glue job, so I can start totally from scratch, whats the best way to do that?  Acetone?
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phlop

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Acetone, or finger nail polish remover will loosen the glue and aid in the removal.

GW makes 2 part epoxy, also. It comes wrapped in plastic, one side yellow and one side blue. Cut off a small piece, across the yellow and blue so that you have equal quantities of the 2 colors. Between your fingers mix the 2 until it turns green. Ready for use.
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Dr Lucky

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So If I have an arm that fell off, and there's hardend glue in the socket of the Torso, whats the best way to clean that off?


If I want to undo an (old) glue job, so I can start totally from scratch, whats the best way to do that?  Acetone?

If it is just a little hardened glue, I usually do alright picking at it with a dentist's pick.  If you want to get all the glue off a multi-part model, soak in acetone or Pine Sol for a while, and then use the pick.

AnejoDave

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I also need to find a better way to spray prime mini's. 

After last nights bit-o-fun, I came upon this method.

Carboard square/circle/whatever.  Model on that.   Spray paint directly at it, from all 4 sides, but slightly above.  Spray paint directly at it, from all 4 sides, but slightly below.  Tip on back, spray bottom up.  Tip on front, spray bottom up. 


Surely there's a better way.  I also realized that I could come up with some way of taking a Dowel rod and attaching a small top to it, and use angled washers to hold the base of the mini onto this.  This creates a fully moveable object with very little to block spraying angles from the bottom.  Now, the sides/Bottom of the Base may not get primed very well like this, but thats easily fixed with a little bit of brush-on primer. 

I think i'm going to rename this thread
"A nubs Adventures in learning to paint minis"

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Dr Lucky

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Remember that the primer doesn't need to get into absolutely every nook and cranny of the miniature.  Don't spray it so much that there are enough coats of paint that you are losing detail.

The primer is just there to provide a consistent base color and to help paint adhesion to the miniature.  Paint adhesion is important in the places where the figure might get touched, but in the crevices, under the arms, behind gun barrels, etc will never get scratched or touched, etc.  Prime lightly so that all of your major surfaces and places that might get contacted have a good coat, but don't keep spraying until you absolutely cannot see metal on any surface.  Then just fill in the gaps with regular paint of a matching color (or brush on primer if you really feel like you must).

Also, you mention spraying directly at the model.  Generally, it is a better idea to start spraying near the model and then draw the spray of paint across it.  Sometimes a spray can "spits" a little when you start spraying, which can result in globs of paint on the model, so you usually don't want to start the spray with the can pointing directly at the miniature.

Dr Lucky

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Also, it is worth mentioning that a lot of this stuff is easier than you would think if someone showed you in person.  I don't know if you have other BattleTech players around, but there are almost certainly other people painting miniatures in your area.  I'm sure you can find someone who does 40K or Flames of War or historicals (or anything else really) to teach you the basics.

AnejoDave

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Thats a Good call!

There are a few battletech players in the area, and at least one shop on the West side that does its primary business in Magic and Miniature games. 
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When we get together at Saltire I can let you pick my brain if you want. Also ask some questions of the guys tomorrow as we occasionally get together just to paint.

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It's worth mentioning that most GW stores run beginner weekends (or days), admittedly it's not battletech but if you can feign an interest in learning 40k (or the others) then part of the beginner day or weekend includes how to paint a model. Which teaches you the basics, you also get to keep said model and you will find that having a model that you don't use in game can be a great boon for using as a testbed for new techniques.

You do have to pay a bit for these days/weekends but personally the knowledge outweighs the cost... Even if you have learned to play a system you might never pick up. Failing that speak to one of the guys in a GW store and ask if would mind running a beginner painting session if you buy a figure/s (either try buying one of the plastic multi-parts or one of the metal two packs, that way you have something for the GW employee to paint).

Again failing that ask around in any gaming store and find out what people play, if it involves mini's with armour of some kind and the store sells it then you could try the same method of buying from a thing you never play to learn the basics of painting. On the plus side if you do, do this route then bear in mind it might help if you buy a basic troop (aka a cheap one) of the army/force that the person teaching you fields. Then you could give them either some or all of the extras and keep one/a few back for practicing on.


EDIT: Also the GW magazine White Dwarf usually has articles in it on painting, likewise they have some books solely on painting minis and terrain respectively. So consider picking some up or just leafing through them, the knowledge they have to offer can be used universally regardless of minis. Although it goes without saying that looking to 40k painting articles/books is your best bet. Also if memory serves the old edition unit codex's are fairly cheap now due to the new edition and some of those contain a basic primer for painting that specific force.
« Last Edit: 20 August 2011, 09:12:58 by Battleclad »

clansittingducks

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Dont use Acetone or Pinesol on a plastic mini, Ive lost about 100 dollars worth of GW stuff due to that brain fart moment.

Use a large glass jar for your simple green wash

You also want to get a small pin drill and copper rods for pinning your minis, but thats for after you have got a feel for how to assemble your figures
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Shijima_3085

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Get the pin vise/drill even if you don't pin - it also works well for reaming existing holes since they don't always cast properly.  Not sure if copper rod is overkill for pinning.  I started with a handful of paper clips and still haven't gone through them.

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I am going to give a big piece of what I believe is new painter advice every new painter
should adhere to:

Do not be afraid to experiment!
Do not be afraid to have something not look right!
Just because something failed the first time you tried it, does
not mean that when you try it again later, it will fail.
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

"Greetings, Mechwarrior! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against---Oops, wrong universe" - Unknown SLDF Recruiter

Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

Leonard Kerensky

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important thing about  your X-acto knife, hobby knife, or anything with a sharp edge to it.


if you really feel you might slip and cut yourself, either by intention or stupid accident. please. use a brand new, sharp blade. sharp blades cut cleanly, and heal all the faster. a dull blade wants to push until til it is forced to cut, and will tear more often than not.  >:(

i speak from personal experice, and as a machinist and knifesmith.
Overkill is only overkill when you cannot find the pieces.