Author Topic: Mech of the week: Gunslinger  (Read 17505 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #30 on: 22 November 2019, 22:26:39 »
The Orochi is not a good replacement for the Gunslinger.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #31 on: 22 November 2019, 22:36:47 »
Do the Dracs really have anything to replace the Gunslinger?
On a one for one basis, no.  They lost the Independence Weaponry plant that was making the design.  There is reference to a New Samarkand faculty, but no details on when or if they picked up regular production (all I could find was a small reference to refits).  The Orochi was built in part to replace various assault mech lines that were lost, so it would make some fluff sense that this is one of the designs it replaced.  Otherwise the Dracs could have bought Warhammer IICs and/or Mad Cat Mk IIs to replace the losses *shrug*.

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #32 on: 22 November 2019, 22:38:53 »
You know, for a 1-off game it might be fun to do a grinder style of dual gauss designs- call it the 'Steiner Stomp' so . . .
....
I am sure there are more . . .
Sun Cobra, a couple of Galahads, at least one Marauder II, and a nasty version of the Xanthos all come to mind.

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #33 on: 22 November 2019, 23:26:03 »
I guess they've got Orochis, but those might have the solid punch the Dracs could be looking for.

Other options would be the Tai-Sho, maybe custom Sunder configs?
There's the new Tenshi from 3145.  No canon configs with multiple headcappers, but it wouldn't be hard to work one up.  Also, the AWS-10KM.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #34 on: 23 November 2019, 01:14:25 »
I hadn't considered HPPCs for some odd reason. I guess that does give them more options, though slightly less range.

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #35 on: 23 November 2019, 05:29:51 »
The Orochi is not a good replacement for the Gunslinger.
I never said it was.

I hadn't considered HPPCs for some odd reason. I guess that does give them more options, though slightly less range.
Yeah, they have quite a few HPPC heavy and assaults.
« Last Edit: 23 November 2019, 05:31:29 by Caedis Animus »

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #36 on: 23 November 2019, 13:38:15 »
Ah the Gunslinger, it compromises so much for silly reasons. but it doesn't compromise firepower, so it's still an alright 'mech (and it had the Cerebus to be compared to, which helped)

Looks wise, this thing is straight out of the 1950s sci-fi markets. Broad, flat plating, a squat box for a head with a tiny visor and no thought whatsoever given to streamlining. I can see why some people might not like it, but the refusal to follow the design trends alone lets it stand out for its peers and "faceless robot covered in guns" is a good look for a battlemech. Shame the Gunslinger model has been skipping arm day, but it doesn't have hands i guess....
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #37 on: 24 November 2019, 18:17:17 »
No way the Orochi could sub for Gunslinger.  One reason is that Silver Gauss Rifle variant doesn't have same oof power as Gunslinger. 
Then again, stand and delivery firepower may been transferred to the tanks, such as the Narukami with variant has twin Gauss Rifles, boosted C3 slave and with harden armor.

Though it could team up with surviving Gunslingers that were refitted with Boosted C3 Master, which would be interesting combination.


I included picture, because i think article needs picture of thing. I wish a new mini of it would be made, that could be posable.
« Last Edit: 24 November 2019, 18:19:52 by Wrangler »
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #38 on: 24 November 2019, 18:25:03 »
I wasn't aware that there were any variants of the Orochi, much less a Silver Bullet Gauss config.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #39 on: 25 November 2019, 00:41:49 »
It is from the old is new part of the tro3150. No sheet yet sadly.  I really want to see that and the Penetrator get proper sheets.

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #40 on: 25 November 2019, 01:06:21 »
Love the Gunslinger, favorite assault from TRO3055.

Then the Civil War Era gave us one of the finest refits ever in the 2ERD,  I hardly ever use the 1ERD anymore & just put Gunslingers in charge of C3-Fire Support Lances.


That said, I still recall a fight in 3055 held at HEXACON-6, where a pair of 1ERD's saved my medium lance's butt when they came across a T-Wolf & Summoner in a forest cut off from the rest of the unit.

By the time I got out of that forest the lance was in tatters & I'd barely been able to touch the clanners.

But then reinforcements arrived from around a hill & opened up on the Omni's with Quad-Quass love that allowed me to pull things back together.



I really want to see that and the Penetrator get proper sheets.

Don't have access to that atm,  what did they do to the Penetrator?
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslnger
« Reply #41 on: 25 November 2019, 02:07:14 »
judging from sarna, endo steel, reflective armor, snubbies in the arms and AES.

If my math is right it has to loose something else, but I don't know what.

I view the gunslinger as a tier two design. Still really good and capable of going toe to toe with a tier one with a bit of luck, but it needs that luck.  It reminds me of the Nightstar - endo the structure and lose a couple things of debatable worth, and you can also lose the XL engine. Then move around a few points of armor and you've got a tier one.

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #42 on: 20 February 2023, 09:41:10 »
OK, new gunslinger in RG27, the -3ERD. Somebody looked at the previous gunslingers and said to screw the electronics, make it tough.

They succeeded. Armor is the same – just in Ballistic Reinforced.  Case II on the gauss rifles means that after one goes off the atacker still has to tear through any remaining arm internal structure. A clan-tech XL engine massively increases the average lifespan by itself. The loss of the ECM means that it is fractionally more vulnerable to a couple things and an XL gyro increases the chance of bad luck being really bad... but I’d expect an IlClan era Gunslinger to be active turns after an invasion era one would have fallen.

Speaking of Clantech, you remember the medium or ER medium lasers on the old versions? They’re now clantech ER mediums, a massive increase in both range and damage. The old smol laser on the -1ERDs head becomes a small X-pulse, for eXtreme infantry clearing, and the rear leg lasers become a pair of same; mooning an infantry platoon is a reasonably practical tactic, especially as SRM infantry are going to have a nigh-impossible time getting through the armor.

You lose a ton of gauss ammo (going down to 16 turns of fire,) run hot with only 10 DHS, there are no electronics, and BV goes up by hundreds of points. I still think I’d take the upgrade version.
« Last Edit: 17 March 2023, 22:57:31 by Greatclub »

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #43 on: 20 February 2023, 10:28:47 »
My only complaint about the new Gunslinger is that it's stuck with two jump jets, and 3/5/2 is such an awkward movement rate.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #44 on: 20 February 2023, 10:40:07 »
Wait, it is now 20 down to 16 rounds of fire?

But honestly, I do not mind a XL Gyro on long range fire support and fast light mechs- the equipment is ideal for them.  A long range sniper should not be in a position to be taking a ton of fire to generate TACs- like MLs & SRMs or heavier LBX cannons- and speedsters will not survive many hits anyway, so increasing the tonnage for other purposes sacrificing some crits works.  Light mechs rarely use up all their crits anyway.

The Ball-R armor really does work with a fire support design, especially with Dracs against the Feds- return fire is going to be lighter sized autocannons, LRMs, ERPPCs, ATMs, Gauss, and ERLL.  This thing is going to be laughing getting in fire support duels with Jagermechs and FS Crusaders.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #45 on: 20 February 2023, 11:03:35 »
My only complaint about the new Gunslinger is that it's stuck with two jump jets, and 3/5/2 is such an awkward movement rate.

Yes when I was looking to mess with it I was thinking how easy it would be to give it a third JJ by dropping the rear stuff, then I saw the XL gyro filling up the CT. 2 jump is difficult to see the use case, I would have been willing to stretch WYSIWYG to avoid that
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #46 on: 20 February 2023, 11:12:58 »
Yeah, if I was in a campaign that allowed mods and I salvaged a Gunslinger either it gets a 3rd JJ or strip them out completely- having a talk like Obediah did in the Chaos Irregulars story about his Thanatos' C3 slave.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #47 on: 20 February 2023, 11:13:10 »
Wait, it is now 20 down to 16 rounds of fire?

Yes

Quote
But honestly, I do not mind a XL Gyro on long range fire support and fast light mechs- the equipment is ideal for them.  A long range sniper should not be in a position to be taking a ton of fire to generate TACs- like MLs & SRMs or heavier LBX cannons- and speedsters will not survive many hits anyway, so increasing the tonnage for other purposes sacrificing some crits works.  Light mechs rarely use up all their crits anyway.

The Ball-R armor really does work with a fire support design, especially with Dracs against the Feds- return fire is going to be lighter sized autocannons, LRMs, ERPPCs, ATMs, Gauss, and ERLL.  This thing is going to be laughing getting in fire support duels with Jagermechs and FS Crusaders.

Yeah, plus the medium lasers being upgraded to Clan ER Mediums means that it's far more dangerous if anything tries to close the gap.  I don't mind the XL Gyro too much.  It's not great, but I've found in practice it's not really that bad if the design uses the extra tonnage smartly, which this mech does.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #48 on: 20 February 2023, 11:19:42 »
Yeah, tell me you stuck it on a upgrade of a 3025 Grasshopper or a TBolt and it is questionable.  It does not need to be on a brawler.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #49 on: 20 February 2023, 12:04:32 »
The new 'slinger can still do a very fine brawler imitation.

It's run by Kurita (like you didn't guess from the armor) the LC, Mercs (probably bought from the LC) and the Kells.

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #50 on: 20 February 2023, 12:49:23 »
Maybe it can, but ideally it should not . . . get within 9 hexes of a opponent and a lot more fire is going to head it's way.  More shots equal a higher chance of a TAC let alone the armor loss that leads to crits.  Point remains, the XL Gyro is better on the Gunslinger than something designed to live within 9 hexes of targets.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #51 on: 20 February 2023, 13:48:13 »
There's typically nothing in a Center Torso that you want to take a crit to, the different between an XL Gyro and a standard Gyro is that if you take two Gyro hits you still have crit padding for the engine.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #52 on: 20 February 2023, 13:58:47 »
Two gyro heats is gyro destroyed though, that is pretty bad. And even standard gyro is 4 slots, so there's some padding for the engine.

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #53 on: 20 February 2023, 14:02:40 »
There's typically nothing in a Center Torso that you want to take a crit to, the different between an XL Gyro and a standard Gyro is that if you take two Gyro hits you still have crit padding for the engine.

I view it the other way around, in the DHS era the engine is padding for the gyro.

I remember something you wrote about pilot hits being one of the most common disablers of assault mechs, and TACs being a prime cause of said hits?

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #54 on: 20 February 2023, 14:43:49 »
By relative frequency, perhaps, but the real-terms likelihood of the difference between a standard gyro and an XL gyro being a problem is factions of a %.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #55 on: 20 February 2023, 14:57:54 »
By relative frequency, perhaps, but the real-terms likelihood of the difference between a standard gyro and an XL gyro being a problem is factions of a %.

This.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #56 on: 20 February 2023, 15:40:07 »
By relative frequency, perhaps, but the real-terms likelihood of the difference between a standard gyro and an XL gyro being a problem is factions of a %.

Well, it is not on a bell curve so . . . 50% (upper/lower) of the time it is a 33% (2 extra gyro crits) greater chance the XL Gyro gets hit.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #57 on: 20 February 2023, 16:35:01 »
Well, it is not on a bell curve so . . . 50% (upper/lower) of the time it is a 33% (2 extra gyro crits) greater chance the XL Gyro gets hit.

And this is applied to a 41.8% chance of confirming a crit following a 2.76% chance that happens after a hit probability that is almost certainly lower than 100% and is very likely to be under 50%.

It's a tiny fraction of a percent difference.
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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #58 on: 20 February 2023, 16:46:44 »
And this is applied to a 41.8% chance of confirming a crit following a 2.76% chance that happens after a hit probability that is almost certainly lower than 100% and is very likely to be under 50%.

It's a tiny fraction of a percent difference.
Gyro TACs have been my bane for a couple years now, whatever the 'real' odds.

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Re: Mech of the week: Gunslinger
« Reply #59 on: 20 February 2023, 17:08:42 »
And I was not just mentioning it for TACs as you referenced, but also to brawlers not using XL Gyros because the increased vulnerability as they have armor stripped away.

Colt Ward
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