Gun safes.. E-lock or manual dial?

[Cannonshop]

Till you get to actual safe doors taken from old banks that you concrete into a structural safe they're all more a suggestion to keep out than anything else.  It's why the really valuable things in my home aren't in a safe, they're in an ordinary container in a closet I can grab and run with quick in an emergency.  Let any idiot robbers try to steal my office safe and carry it off, has nothing but old paperwork in it.  The gun safe on the other hand, best security is just to electrify the outer case with house current.  Anybody who doesn't know to turn off the hidden switch first is gonna smell the bacon.

The problem with lethal traps is liability in the event of fire or legitimate actions by state actors.  There are laws in some areas forbidding that sort of booby-trap, and electrifying at below-fatal levels doesn't work well as a deterrent except against curious children.

Your homeowner's insurance will definitely not pay out in such a situation, and you could find yourself facing felony charges and through that, losing your right to bear arms.

IOW before you start rigging your house with killer traps, you might want to float the idea to your lawyer and make sure there aren't legal precedents or laws in your area that make that a seriously bad idea.

[SteelRaven]

The gun safe on the other hand, best security is just to electrify the outer case with house current.  Anybody who doesn't know to turn off the hidden switch first is gonna smell the bacon.

... This is when I'll ask the OP to start asking else where for advise on the subject.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm pretty sure running a current that strong through your safe is also a major fire hazard.

[ImperialistDog]

... This is when I'll ask the OP to start asking else where for advise on the subject.

It's certainly not legal everywhere, it is legal where I live because it falls under the same rules as taser based car security systems.  Basically while it has the potential to be lethal, you would have to intentionally continue holding onto the safe for it to be lethal.  Otherwise it is a very painful deterrent that will leave you with some harsh electrical burns. 

As to the fire hazard aspects, that varies from safe to safe.  My safe is an old antique rolling bank safe I got years ago.  Thing is an iron shell, then four inches of refractory ceramic, then another iron shell.  The ceramic inner fire protection layer acts as very good eletrical insulation and I had a bit more work done to isolate the inner and outer shells electrically, so that while the outer shell and door are electrified the inner lining is not.

Still I would absolutely tell anybody considering any such system to check with a lawyer regarding the legality in your State and have a professional electrician familiar with electrical security systems or electrical anti-bear deterrents to do the work.  High amperage electricity is not something to mess around with for the untrained and inexperienced.

[ActionButler]

**MOD NOTICE**

The electrified safe conversation stops now.

OP asked an excellent question and, as a fellow gun owner, I have personally enjoyed following the replies since I only have experience with old schools safes. This will not, however, become a conversation about the legality and logistics of booby trapping your own home.

The thread is staying unlocked and no posts are being pulled for now since most everyone is appropriately engaging in the spirit of the thing. That is not a guarantee that posts won’t be pulled in the future after the mods have time to discuss.

[Cannonshop]

Till you get to actual safe doors taken from old banks that you concrete into a structural safe they're all more a suggestion to keep out than anything else.  It's why the really valuable things in my home aren't in a safe, they're in an ordinary container in a closet I can grab and run with quick in an emergency.  Let any idiot robbers try to steal my office safe and carry it off, has nothing but old paperwork in it.  The gun safe on the other hand, best security is just to electrify the outer case with house current.  Anybody who doesn't know to turn off the hidden switch first is gonna smell the bacon.

kind of my point; it's not going to stop a professional, dedicated criminal, even the concrete/bank safe door isn't, if it's a criminal who thinks he can get a reward equal to the effort.  (also, that shit is Ehx-PENNN-sive.)

Generally speaking, the 'suggestion' to stay out is a good suggestion for a number of opportunistic reasons, including homes with young people in them, or where young people are likely to visit, as well as because sometimes with an insurer (and you SHOULD be insuring at least some of your guns, if they're valuable-ish or your holding them to resell as investments) you can get either a discount on your premiums, or you can get coverage in your state for having a secure lockup.

A locking cabinet (let's face it, most affordable 'gun safes' are just locking cabinets) also provides for a nice way to keep them stored and keep them nice when you're not knocking about with them in the outside.  (this is because you can do things to improve climate control, like using those bags of silica to reduce humidity inside the safe...)

Depending on how much you want to spend, you can get some decent (but not in any way foolproof, sorry...) security using relatively cheap, simple, locking cabinet type "Gun Safes" if they're secured properly and you bother to maintain them.  (*everything like this has some maintenance involved, even if it's just adding a drop of 3 in 1 oil to the lock and hinges.)

whatever it is you end up buying, it's advisable to RTFM.  (Read the Frikking Manual) and note the 'advised' portions as 'you really ought to do this'.

The biggest security move you can make, is knowing you need to make a security move, then making it.  It doesn't matter if it's electronic, combination, or Key based, as long as you DO IT.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The thing about stealing gun safes is that yes, it technically can be done, but if you've got a big, heavy safe that weighs 100 pounds empty, is the average burglar going to carry it off instead of stealing your TV and some jewelry?

[Cannonshop]

The thing about stealing gun safes is that yes, it technically can be done, but if you've got a big, heavy safe that weighs 100 pounds empty, is the average burglar going to carry it off instead of stealing your TV and some jewelry?

which kinda works to my point-if it's inconvenient, they'll leave it, so making it inconvenient as possible (within your budget) is generally a good idea.

Most "Pros" aren't going to be looking at hitting small residential anyway-they're going to go after someone with lots of stuff they can make money from, most things like gun-safes are more for deterring opportunists and amatuers.

a guy who's got glass crawlies in his veins and wants another hit is going to go for opportunity scores, not heavy labor, so if you make it require skill and/or strength to make off with your valuables? he's going to take less than if it's convenient or low effort.

[garhkal]

The thing about stealing gun safes is that yes, it technically can be done, but if you've got a big, heavy safe that weighs 100 pounds empty, is the average burglar going to carry it off instead of stealing your TV and some jewelry?

Let alone do they have the tools to even try to GET it out.

[Prospernia]

Let alone do they have the tools to even try to GET it out.

You'd need a Refer-dolly to get it out; not many thieves carry one of those when they break into a house.

[Cannonshop]

You'd need a Refer-dolly to get it out; not many thieves carry one of those when they break into a house.

which is what makes "Has one at all" very useful.  The next step up being "less easy to break into than to move".  again, the safe isn't going to stop a dedicated professional with the right tools and ample time, but it's going to stop Junkie Jim or Tweaker Todd, whom are both far more likely to make the attempt on you unless you're Bill Gates.

after that, it's almost a matter of your personal level of paranoia, relative fame and value of your collection, and perimeter security to keep unwanted people OUT of your house.  The safe's the last step behind locked doors and windows, not the only security you've got (one should hope).

[garhkal]

after that, it's almost a matter of your personal level of paranoia, relative fame and value of your collection, and perimeter security to keep unwanted people OUT of your house.  The safe's the last step behind locked doors and windows, not the only security you've got (one should hope).

Very true.  Most crooks will look for the Easiest house to break into..  Unless they're career criminals with a specific score in mind.

[guardiandashi]

its not directly a gun safe thing but my step father worked as a full service driver for a soda company, stocking vending machines.

there were incidents with the vending machines that indicated there were 4 different groups/gangs robbing them.
1 you drive up and the machine is visibly damaged (pried open with crow bars or equivalent)
2 you drive up and the machine is saying its out of product, the driver unlocks it, and there is no product OR money in the machine.
3 you drive up and there is no machine present.
4 you are going around your route and around 1-5 ish stops before you head back to the facility, the truck gets broken into and the contents of the "drop safe" are taken

one thing to consider for safe placement is its going to depend heavily on your homes construction. one question is do you have any "dead spaces" in the building.
for instance, I have a spot where there is a cupboard built into a wall in a hallway. in the bedroom adjacent to the hallway, there is a closet.  there is a "dead space" on top of the cupboard and below the roof, that I had considered putting a camouflaged access and putting a small safe inside.

another one would be like in the harry potter movies, where Harry's room was in the "dead space" under the staircase. something like that might not be a horrible place to put a safe.
the point is to use a combination of obscurity, and security when possible, without going all Mr. and Mrs smith movie.

[Prospernia]

As for the OP, E-lock or manual, why not a retinal-scanner?  What could go wrong?