Questions, Naggings, Sharing of Ideas

[fever_Dream.)]

I'll open up with the fact that I was a playtester.  I sat down and made 100 characters when I got my hands on the book.  None of which I made seemed to be as powerful as some players are making theirs.

So, I'm curious.  How often do you find players who don't use Clan backgrounds (and even those that do) end up with +6 - +8 in mech gunnery and piloting?  I mean, translating it to Battletech, doesn't that make them around 0/0, -1/-1 MechWarriors?

I haven't had a chance to outright run a game for over a decade, and now that I am, I seem to have a "that guy" who wants to be the biggest badass MechWarrior.  I explained that most of my game is probably not going to take place on a battlefield.

I dunno.  Probably just looking for a reason to tell a guy that his 25 year old has been doing nothing but training in simulators most of his life that he has ignored the rest of life outdoors.  I'm putting my foot down, but I also want to explain why without going "GM fiat".

[Daryk]

I don't see that problem when using the life module system, even with the +100 XP per year over 21.

[fever_Dream.)]

Yeah, but +4 seems slightly more explainable than +8.

Do you take Bloodmark +3 and Enemy +3 to get to that point?  I asked both of these players if they would mind talking it over with their fellow players to see if everyone was okay that there'd be conflicts that could affect the company as a whole.

Eh, again, I guess I wanted some characters that were more than just a MechWarrior (yes, I know, the name of the game is MechWarrior).  Who are they outside the cockpit?  One was "I could be the face!"  When another player is playing a sleazy exiled noble from the Combine who found his way to Astrokaszy to possibly find a "presentable" mercenary company to grift people with.

[massey]

If most of the game is not going to take place on a battlefield, then what's the problem?  Let him waste his points on things that won't matter.

The thing about Battletech is that even ace pilots still get hit the same.  It doesn't matter if he's a 0/0, he still only gets normal target movement modifiers when people shoot at him.

[Maelwys]

Its not really that hard to minmax a character using the life path system (or point buy for that matter). +8 is only 456 XP, less than what you can buy for the character using the "buying additional XP" rules. It is going to leave them deficient in other areas of course. I'm kind of curious as to what the rest of the character looks like, especially in terms of attributes.

So yeah. If you really wanted to focus on something, potentially to the breaking point, its not that hard to do, but it will leave you deficient in other areas, IMO.

As for the player themselves, you've explained your problem with the character and how it fits into the campaign, and the player decided not to change with it. You can either roll with it and deal with all the potential problems later on ("My character can't do anything!") or you can set your foot down as the GM ("Yeah, this isn't going work, this need to be changed.") and deal with all the potential problems now ("This is what I want to do!").

I mean you're the GM. You're the one that has final say over all this. Its his character sure, but its your campaign, and you're the one that has to make sure that EVERYONE has a part and having fun.

[fever_Dream.)]

I think I ultimately know what's bothering me, and it's me being spoiled.  For instance in my game:

"So, tell me about your character?"

Player 1:  "Well, I'm a noble from the Draconis Combine.  Second cousin even married into the Kurita house, but completely "forgot" about her side of the family.  Regardless, total huckster, uses his nobility to bilk people.  Bilked the wrong people, offended his sister's husband.  Had to get out.  Astrokaszy seemed like a good place to hide from the family.  Oh, and there are many hapless wannabe mercenaries that can maybe help me make some money..."

Player 2:  Lyran-born doctor.  Humanitarian.  Got his pilot's license to fly evacuation helicopters to hospitals.  Studied to be a surgeon.  Was damn good at it.  Wrote a paper on neurobiology that was not well-taken by some of the established professors.  Past was dug up, license revoked.  Never could practice in Lyran space again.  Still a humanitarian at heart, found his way to Astrokaszy to set up a clinic where he doesn't exactly need a license to practice."

Player 3:  Lyran noble.  Her family fought in just about every Succession War.  Wanted to do her patriotic duty, but... didn't quite cut it.  Last in her class.  One day found family talking to some guys in white robes.  Seems they were interested in some... strategic information.  Wasn't aware that the family knew a lot more about Lyran secrets.  Sent an anonymous tip, stole family's 'Mech, high tailed it to Astrokaszy to hide out from weirdo cultists.

Player 4:  Federated scientist publishing papers on myomers.  Fascinated by the history of the myomer trap pulled on the Capellans.  Likes to reverse engineer and test out potential new forms of TSM.  GO ONE FURTHER FOR QSM!  But without funding, a home, and only this junk Cataphract poorly bargained for, ended up on Astrokaszy to do unpublishable research and maybe fix up some peoples' mechs.  Maybe one day he'll learn to pilot that thing.  Dad used to let him park a Hatchetman in the barn.  How hard could a Cataphract be?

Player 5:  I'm a badass Mechwarrior.

The problem is me.  And you guys are right.  One shot outside the 'Mech and that player's done for.  Don't wish to target him because of that because... well, I could be accused of targeting him just for that.

Thanks for the input.

[massey]

Don't kill the character.  Just let him be free to suck.  He embarrasses himself at a party with all the right people because he doesn't have any appropriate skills.  He gets swindled out of some money in a bar because he fell for a cheap con.  He signs on for a really crappy assignment (for low pay) because he doesn't know how to read a contract.

Don't go out of your way to screw him over, but after a session or two it should be clear that he's not quite up to snuff in certain areas.  Then give him the opportunity for a rebuild.  I'd suggest letting other characters use those same skills to get past some easy obstacles, that way it doesn't look like you're picking on him.

[Maingunnery]

I would ask him who paid for his characters training  ;)

[massey]

I would ask him who paid for his characters training  ;)

He paid for his own training.  That's why he doesn't have any money anymore. :)

[CoreWatch]

An interesting thread!

And one that can commonly happen in real life as well if one were to not apply common sense and logic to the job skills and life choices as they progress throughout life. The life module system does do a decent job at character creation to truly mimic what we would probably go thru if presented with those paths in life and it's clear to see that there are only so many points that one can distribute by the character creations end.

I always let characters choose their own fate, even if that fate is as skewed as the hopped-up fighting type that has no other warranted skills. Because they then see the error of their ways as they play the game and realize that they may be good at that one thing but ultimately suck at all other things and consequently will have to rely on teammates or will have to spend the bulk of their eventual earned experience playing catch up to become minimally playable at what the game considers some of the most used core skills needed to survive.

Ultimately though, it's still you as a GM's decision to decide if you'll accept the character as presented. I personally would like to have that character give me a justifiable story as to why he/she is so combat heavy, chances are as well they have enemies, scars, wounds, and some traumas to go with those elite level pilot/gunnery skills though.

Anyway, hope it works out for you!

Cheers!
-CW

[dgorsman]

A somewhat more subtle method of pulling off a switch, if you need it: it's the same person, he's just been lying out of a bodily orifice about what a bad ass he is.  Google "What color is the boat house at Hereford? " for the setup.  Gives both of you an out.

[Maelwys]

Short descriptions like that may be a sign of unfamiliarity with the system as well. You may wish to find one of the various "20 questions" out there (I can't remember if ATOW has its own version off hand) that helps to flesh out characters and have the person work on it with you.

[Daryk]

The life module system usually takes care of the 20 questions aspect.

Have the other players said anything to player 5?  Peer pressure might help you out here...

[fever_Dream.)]

Update:  Yes, the other players did help.  And it turns out to be a compelling character now.

Player 5:  Canopian.  Typical high school jock.  Smug footballer who has tried to charm every cheerleader from Vixen to Canopus.  Riding on that popularity, tried to get into the academy.  But in Canopus, popularity alone doesn't get you into the Canopian Institute of War.  Managed to convince a family to train him personally... if he married their daughter.  Agreed, turns out he was damn good at what he does.  Was about to have his way paid into the Canopian Highlanders when he welched on the marriage.  Soon he discovers that Hell hath no fury than a Canopian Woman scorned...  And it's led to him having a kind of paranoia about women in general.  Especially well-dressed women.

I actually really like that character.  And I get to put him in a run down Stinger owned by a landowner to pay off all his debts.  I'm not dissing Stingers.  Love the buggers.

Again, thanks for the advice and conversation, folks.

The problem is mostly me, and I realize why.  I like my players' characters to at least have character flaws.  Nothing crippling, just something that makes them stick out.

[Maelwys]

The life module system usually takes care of the 20 questions aspect.

For the most part, but the Life Modules can be pretty generic. "White Collar" can be a starting point, and can be expanded with the 20 questions into something like "Raised by a single father who spent most of his time focused on his work which was working on a Lyran brokerage firm."

They're helpful for fleshing things out for people that might not be inherently familiar with the system and can spurn other ideas.

The problem is mostly me, and I realize why.  I like my players' characters to at least have character flaws.  Nothing crippling, just something that makes them stick out.

That's...not a problem. That's perfectly fine. Characters SHOULD have quirks and flaws. They don't have to be crippling, but it should be something that makes them...you know, characters.

[fever_Dream.)]

I ran my game, it went great according to my players, and they were interested in having friends play a game on another day.  So I thought I'd try my hand at perhaps some IS Clan stuff, where the players would be forced to get their hands dirty with... eww... politics.  Then let them go hog wild as gladiators for Zellbringen Stables on Solaris later on.

Rather than start a new thread, this one seems watched enough.

So my focus would just be on making something "canonically correct".  To give people the option to play whatever they want, just that the eventually become part of, say, Clan Jade Falcon.

So during the Life Stages, they would choose any affiliation, go through the training, then maybe make them "repeat" a module.  So if a player was some Capellan, but fought a Trial of Position, they could begin:  CC ->  IS Stage 2 ->  IS Stage 3 (Academy or whatever) -> Stage 4 IS Tour of Duty, but then maybe have them take Freeborn Sibko, or Tour of Duty as an additional module?

Would you use the "dual affiliation" rule?

I think easier for those who want to be a member of another Clan, just make a character as normal, then say they were taken as a Bondsman and moved to the Inner Sphere.  Or something.

I admit, I never liked the Clans, so my ideas on them are fuzzy.  And I get confused going through the Clan Chatterweb threads.  :)

[Daryk]

I wouldn't allow an IS veteran to take a Freeborn Sibko module.  A second Tour of Duty would probably do it, maybe after a Civilian Job module to represent time as a bondsman.

[fever_Dream.)]

So my last session was interesting.  Having the players planning a heist.  The players are going to stop at the Mica Majority space station to get the negotiated transportation before sneaking into Fed territory.

A situation came up after I had one NPC mention "You're gonna meet a lot of people at the station.  Weird people.  You could even run into one of those 'Clan Sharks' people.  Best to avoid those guys."

Well, one player plays his character and is like "What are Clans?"  Another player then, in character, proceeds to give the entire breakdown of the Clans, "The Great Refusal", and all the Trials.  As his Discord was acting up, I was going, "Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, back up there.  Looking at your character sheet, I see no skills related to Interest / The Clans.  Or Clan Remembrance."  He apparently didn't hear me and continued on.

When he restarted, I told him that everything he thinks his character said, didn't.

Now, I'm not one to pull the "Interest / Ass from Hole in the Ground" shtick, but it did get me thinking about what level of metaknowledge is fine.  Especially in a group where two have read every novel, sourcebook, and TRO cover to cover three or four times.

What level of metaknowledge to you allow?  I'm sure that there are a lot of players who don't like to be "dumbed down" as a character, but hey.  I imagine one could dump the idea if everyone in the group knew Clan society out of character.

Edited:  It's one thing to say "That's an Atlas", as it's among the most iconic things in all societies...

[Elmoth]

Depends. By 3070 I guess hat most clans will be known across the inner sphere by every single grunt with access to a holovid. Plenty of WW2-like movies based on the clan invasion and other holivid series will havw been produced, so a general knowlege of the clans and their inner sphere history will be known.

If not, plan B will be to allow that post, but those ar epoints in knowledges that need to come from somehwre, so you can edit his character aheet removing a few points from a few skills (or them all) to have him have a good knowedge of recent history and major political factions and families in the inner sphere.

[Robroy]

I start by asking myself a couple questions. What would make the news/ be common knowledge? Would the military I am a member of know this? Would the military I am a member of brief me on this? Do I know someone that would know this,  and tell me?

After that, as it gets into more detail/ history. Then you might want to look at the Interest skill.

[fever_Dream.)]

Depends. By 3070 I guess hat most clans will be known across the inner sphere by every single grunt with access to a holovid. Plenty of WW2-like movies based on the clan invasion and other holivid series will havw been produced, so a general knowlege of the clans and their inner sphere history will be known.

If not, plan B will be to allow that post, but those ar epoints in knowledges that need to come from somehwre, so you can edit his character aheet removing a few points from a few skills (or them all) to have him have a good knowedge of recent history and major political factions and families in the inner sphere.

Oh, this is live.  Roll20 + Discord.  Discord's just been acting up.

Now, we have a player joining who has Interest / Clans and so on.  Her Lyran character grew up on those holovids, and she started fangirling on Natasha Kerensky, even though the character's player despises Natasha in real-life.

I'm also thinking about this topic because of that.  Do I let this guy, a blue collar dude from Marik space, ramble about every intricacy of Clan society, and allow the lyran to spend her skill points in something other than Interest / Clans?  The game is 3067.

I am just reminiscing about the ancient days of Vampire games where people would know everything about Werewolf society in some kind of all supernaturals know how all other supernaturals are organized.

[massey]

Everybody on Earth knows who Hitler was.  You don't need Interest: WWII to know that.

For just a general info dump, you shouldn't need Interest: Clans.  I'd just say that you're under no obligation to follow the exact details in the canon of your game world.  In other words, if the guy who doesn't have the skill starts talking about specific details of the novels, or exactly how Clan Bloodname trials work, or something like that, that doesn't mean he's right (even if the player is actually right).

Basically, if you don't have the skill, your character doesn't know enough to differentiate between what is actual knowledge and what is the Hollywood version.  In real life, Hitler was mildly interested in the occult.  But Hollywood Hitler had teams of men hunting for the Ark of the Covenant and other mystical objects.  Even if the player has memorized the novels and knows it backwards and forwards, his character doesn't know all the relevant details.  Therefore, anything the player relies on beyond what his character knows, is subject to change without notice.  The player is almost guaranteed to know the story of Aidan Pryde.  The character almost certainly does not.  So if he starts going on and on about Aidan's life?  Then maybe that was just the Hollywood version, not what really happened.

[fever_Dream.)]

Everybody on Earth knows who Hitler was.  You don't need Interest: WWII to know that.

For just a general info dump, you shouldn't need Interest: Clans.  I'd just say that you're under no obligation to follow the exact details in the canon of your game world.  In other words, if the guy who doesn't have the skill starts talking about specific details of the novels, or exactly how Clan Bloodname trials work, or something like that, that doesn't mean he's right (even if the player is actually right).

Basically, if you don't have the skill, your character doesn't know enough to differentiate between what is actual knowledge and what is the Hollywood version.  In real life, Hitler was mildly interested in the occult.  But Hollywood Hitler had teams of men hunting for the Ark of the Covenant and other mystical objects.  Even if the player has memorized the novels and knows it backwards and forwards, his character doesn't know all the relevant details.  Therefore, anything the player relies on beyond what his character knows, is subject to change without notice.  The player is almost guaranteed to know the story of Aidan Pryde.  The character almost certainly does not.  So if he starts going on and on about Aidan's life?  Then maybe that was just the Hollywood version, not what really happened.

Thank you for this perspective.  I never thought about it, and I am totally going to be using that as a lesson in perspective when they get to the Mica Majority station.  It could be great to deal with both that one player's metaknowledge and the other player's wish to play an utter holovid fangirl of the idealized Natasha Kerensky.

Love it.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

Everybody on Earth knows who Hitler was.  You don't need Interest: WWII to know that.

  You'd be amazed at the number of people who don't. Some schools in Japan don't teach anything about WW2 at all. Other countries in Asia are similar; WW2 Europe is not relevant.

  When I was stationed in Germany, I lived in a small town that had a large number of WW2 veterans and I enjoyed listening to their war stories. One of the guys I worked with served in North Africa and displayed his uniform and medals in his home. All of the veterans agreed on one thing: They wished Germany had won the war. To them, it had nothing to do with politics or evil or crap like that, they were simply serving their country.

  The above being said, as a GM my players mastered the art of min/maxing characters and on the battlefield, were like gods but were inept when out of their 'mechs, which prompted me to run a merc company based on the Archer series, which was insane hilarious, due to them being very inventive with all the rope I gave them... They were hired to put down a rebellion and the the insurgents captured a Lyran base. The unit welcomed hundreds of escaping Lyran soldiers but allowed dozens of insurgents to infiltrate the unit. These insurgents made off with several vehicles, sabotaged other vehicles, and captured one of the players, who was paraded through the streets of a large, enemy city, through jeering crowds.  The players would get into fist fights over disagreements and those brawls would soon be posted on the BT equivalent of YouTube.  Good times...

[monbvol]

To further expand just because the battletech version of google almost certainly exists doesn't mean the character used or had access to it.  Some worlds are backwards like that.

Which is pretty much the start of my tolerance of metaknowledge.  I don't mind it too much if the setting has something like google/wikipedia.  But these are places to start and the information may not be fully accurate or in depth.  So throwing curveballs to reward investing in interest/knowledge skills is a fairly common goto for me.  Also partially to keep things interesting for me as a GM too.

[fever_Dream.)]

Hello again.  Using this thread to ask my inane questions.

So I started a new game.  It's a Clan Homeworld campaign where players would play members of the Laborer, Tech, and Merchant castes.  I was always curious about things from the point of view of the average Laborer Schmoe in a universe of trillions.  I posted an advertisement and explained that it was a game where it would not be combat-heavy, and especially not Mech-heavy.  It would take place at the beginning of the Wars of Reaving, and the idea is them surviving in what would eventually become a post-apocalyptic world.  I actually didn't think it would attract the attention of BattleTech fans.

I was wrong.  In a few hours, I got several applicants.  I was pretty stunned.

The rules were fairly simple.  Everyone's a Mandrill, everyone's either born into the castes, or were Warriors so awful, they were kicked down into the Laborer caste (thus Washout stage 4).

The question is more me rationalizing two who expressed interest in playing Elemental washouts.  Like, gentle giants or oafish types.  Awesome.  Love it.  But then I get to thinking how they would need to move about in society.  Say they get orders to  a construction site.  Their strength is a boon.  I started feeling that this would just be goofy overall.  Do they have buses with Elemental-sized seats?  Do Elementals have cars, and do the roads accommodate them?  One expressed that he wanted an SUV with the roof cut off, and I felt that is too damn goofy.  I suggested that his Vehicle trait represents a vehicle that he himself custom built in a junkyard, since the guy had mechanical skills.

I can't say much on the concepts because during what I called "A Hundred Characters" that I generated during the beta test, I played with the numbers with a concept of an Elemental that washed out and turned out to be a fairly average-to-good doctor.  It worked that way, but conceptually?  Eh.

Edit:  Feel like I should add that one of my players was born and raised in the Soviet-era Eastern Europe and liked the idea of a kind of repressive society game, even if the Clans do have quite a bit of creature comforts.

[Daryk]

Vehicle-wise, soft top jeeps or straight convertibles are absolutely reasonable.  As far as public transportation, being that Elementals are the largest population in the Warrior caste, it only makes sense that buses and trains can accommodate them.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

The thing about Battletech is that even ace pilots still get hit the same.  It doesn't matter if he's a 0/0, he still only gets normal target movement modifiers when people shoot at him.

  I've GMed power gamers who have the rules down. Take Special Pilot Ability "Jumping Jack" that reduces the jumping penalty to -1, add ECM Ghost Targets, and suddenly, half the enemy units in play can't hit them, especially when several ECM bubbles overlap. Add darkness and fog, and these elites cannot be touched, which is why I limit all starting players to 3/3 and make the roleplay aspect grueling and as deadly out of the cockpit as any battlefield, especially when my players make a point to offend as many people as possible.

  As a GM I also let the players know, it they are fielding elites, so will the enemy. So they face enemy pilots with Special Abilities, customized 'Mechs with ECM, and the battles are no longer cake walks...
 

[Daryk]

Jumping Jack (as powerful as it is) really only affects the PC's ability to shoot, though I see how it might increase some people's tendency to jump rather than walk or run.  Ghost Targets, darkness, fog and the rest work both ways, and I can only imagine any OPFOR run by you will take full advantage of them.  The answer to those PCs going this route are Area of Effect weapons: Artillery Cannons, proper Artillery, bombs, mine fields, etc.  I may only have a 3 or 4 Gunner, but I only need to hit the hex...

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

Jumping Jack (as powerful as it is) really only affects the PC's ability to shoot, though I see how it might increase some people's tendency to jump rather than walk or run.  Ghost Targets, darkness, fog and the rest work both ways, and I can only imagine any OPFOR run by you will take full advantage of them. 

  A 5/8/5 jumping into heavy woods make a huge difference in the linear 2d6 system, add Clan LPLs and Weapon Specialist (Lasers) and tilt the playing field even further. That being said, I only allowed one player to have Natural Aptitude/Gunner, because he was so bad at the game. He was such a "D&D" player and always surprised his opponent didn't drop on the first shot. He was also one of two players in our group incapable of handling more than one mech on the table... "Want to make him happy? Give him an Atlas... Want to screw him up? Give him a lance of Atlases..."
 

[Daryk]

Paul has been throwing clan pilots at us lately, and generally, jumping 5 into Heavy Woods hasn't been enough.  Range rules all so far...

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

Paul has been throwing clan pilots at us lately, and generally, jumping 5 into Heavy Woods hasn't been enough.  Range rules all so far...

  I had to boost Clan pilots and omnis to use against my players -They'd eat anything out of the scenario books alive. They were bad playing IS and far worse as Clan pilots in a hysterical Burrock campaign I ran. It was Archer...set in the Clans.

[Daryk]

I should have been more specific... He's been throwing Veteran clan pilots at us.  He's just had absolutely ATROCIOUS dice...

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

I should have been more specific... He's been throwing Veteran clan pilots at us.  He's just had absolutely ATROCIOUS dice...

  Exactly. When players become gods on the battlefield, I have to throw gods at them...they know the rules well enough to build units that would crush canon forces.

[Daryk]

We're not really gods on the battlefield... he generally gives us a mix of 2 and 3 gunners.

[fever_Dream.)]

We're not really gods on the battlefield... he generally gives us a mix of 2 and 3 gunners.

  Exactly. When players become gods on the battlefield, I have to throw gods at them...they know the rules well enough to build units that would crush canon forces.

My question about this, though, is how much of a personality beyond being a mech god were these players?  How big of an enemy/bloodmark or whatever did they have that helped boost them more?

I prefer players that have a wide range of skills and incorporate those as part of how their characters think.  You spend your childhood years learning most of your skills, right?  It should be harder to learn new ones (not just languages).  Otherwise I imagine these characters having sad, pathetic lives where their skill means nothing if they can't ingratiate themselves to a few people.

...huh...  Pardon me while I start generating Clan characters simply as thought experiments.  Well, during the beta I did make one joke Elemental washout that ended up as a medical doctor.  I've since deleted that character ever since Avengers:  Endgame.

[Daryk]

AToW gets after that by requiring you to buy a skill at level 0 for 20 XP, while level 1 in that skill will only cost an additional 10 XP.

[fever_Dream.)]

AToW gets after that by requiring you to buy a skill at level 0 for 20 XP, while level 1 in that skill will only cost an additional 10 XP.

Well, I'm more saying that they spent all their time becoming gods that learning to train Rover or pick a lock simply by going that route is a little... off to me.  I mean, yes, there's plenty of downtime during the games, though for me it's usually in the form of long-distance jumpship travel.  Watching the Dog Whisperer on repeat might give them some insight, or picking the lock on a locker to prank someone could be a way to learn during the voyages.  I'm more arguing to my players that it's best that they spread out skills to reflect their characters and remain green.  It's easier to excuse spending extra simulator time to go from Zero to Hero and be more fleshed out.

But enough about my thoughts and feelings.

I don't want to start a new thread, but my awesome players want to do a long RP session.  They've seen the rise of the battle armor, and one character, the glass-jawed noble who might possibly die to a sunburn, is a technical wizard, and wants to design battle armor.  He is essentially Anemic Tony Stark.  All the players want to do this, rather than go the Mechwarrior route, and I think it's awesome.  Once they get around to raiding the backwaters of the Lyran Alliance and hopefully return successfully to The Rack, they want to put that plan into motion.  I figured I'd throw them hijacking the plans for the Rottweiler battle armor, deconstructing it, and building their own design.

They have some access to Star League technology thanks to Morrison's Extractors, and breathe a little easier now that the Rim Collection has cleared out Pain.  But I've ruled that the access they have are to computers and stuff to help with processing information.

How would you suggest the sessions go (all through "downtime")?  Deconstruction phase, reverse engineering phase, redesign phase, prototype phase, then production phase.  At each step of the way, how would you suggest rolls go for each step?  Operation:  Painkiller may take forever to get to, though, with how my players love just roleplaying wandering around the planet Winter in the Lyran Alliance.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

My question about this, though, is how much of a personality beyond being a mech god were these players? 

  Personality has nothing to do with skills. That being said, my players took on hilarious quirks and drawbacks in order to gain more points to boost their skills, such as debilitating addictions, one player had split personality that manifested through hypnotic suggestion -Meckjock on campaign, but when he was on Galatea, he'd get a phone call and disappear for a week...and come back exhausted and unable to recall anything...eventually he has the rest of the players track him to see what was happening...they found out that he was appearing in extreme porn vids...the porn ring disappeared, but the character suffered emotional scarring for life. Another character played a failed Elemental turned Mechwarrior...he hated the Jags do badly that he would always alpha strike and risk all the consequences involved...and then there were the practical jokes, like the CSJ posted attached to the door inside a restroom stall...he got time in the brig for ripping the toilet from the floor and tossing it through a third story barracks window, causing injuries...  Or the Trinary Commander who had an evil twin, who scarred him so badly while in the Sibko, the character couldn't stand being in his twin's presence, with reactions from stuttering, all the way to high-pitched hysterical screaming, and eventually uncontrollable crying...My players payed for their godhood; some were captured by their hated enemies, paraded through city streets, jeered at but crowds and pelted with offal...others committed crimes then lost their lands and titles.
 
  The really fun part was, I always give my players plenty of rope...then they fight each other over who gets to jump from the tallest chair after the nooses are prepared.

[Daryk]

All of those phases are going to months (if not years) long.  I'd probably take a page from Pathfinder, and set ridiculously high thresholds that require an accumulation of successes on a weekly or monthly basis (i.e., accumulating Measures of Success over time).  Say the Deconstruction Phase requires Technician/Myomer 20 AND Technician/Electronic 15 AND Technician/Mechanical 15 to complete.  Week one, they throw enough manpower at it to accumulate 4 MoS for the first, 3 for the second and 1 for the last.  You can then throw in wild cards that consume their time, result in actual setbacks (subtracting MoF), or potentially provide a morale boost (or penalty) to the weekly rolls.

[Robroy]

Also between redesign and prototype you need design tooling and building tooling.

[fever_Dream.)]

All of those phases are going to months (if not years) long.  I'd probably take a page from Pathfinder, and set ridiculously high thresholds that require an accumulation of successes on a weekly or monthly basis (i.e., accumulating Measures of Success over time).  Say the Deconstruction Phase requires Technician/Myomer 20 AND Technician/Electronic 15 AND Technician/Mechanical 15 to complete.  Week one, they throw enough manpower at it to accumulate 4 MoS for the first, 3 for the second and 1 for the last.  You can then throw in wild cards that consume their time, result in actual setbacks (subtracting MoF), or potentially provide a morale boost (or penalty) to the weekly rolls.

With the way things are going, with one player constantly trying to hack, eventually LOKI will notice, so... there's one wildcard!

[Daryk]

A morale boosting wildcard could be somebody throwing a party.  A set back wildcard could be somebody finding out they're going down the wrong path.  A morale penalty one could be as simple as someone's dog getting run over... the possibilities are endless!  :D

[fever_Dream.)]

Well, so far we're still on what I would call "Chapter 1".  I'm letting them get away with more, but I'm starting to do visible, but unidentified contested rolls.  Just to start sending signals.  It's roll20, and I don't want to bother rolling dice at my desk.  By definition, if there's a label for the party, it's "Pirates" from The Rack.  Suave pirates who can blend into high society, but still pirates hiding out on The Rack.  They're on an objective raid to hijack medical equipment, and possibly a ceremonial mech from a tiny noble house as an insult.  I'm thinking they either get the plans for the Rottweiler while they're there, or they are gifted a couple by a mysterious benefactor.

Downtime is expected to begin the deconstruction phase.

I'd like your thoughts on my next chapter, if that's cool.

Chapter 2 would be the beginning of a CO type phase.  With the chaos caused by Able's Aces on Pain, a pirate queen has been filling the power vacuum and moving her forces to take over where Hopper left off, the players would start forming a company, knowing full well that this nameless queen will want to consolidate her power on the planet.  The players would be "heroes" in a sense, learning to mobilize riff-raff natives and refugees from the FedCom Civil War.  It's a bit complex of an idea, but considering how they're handling an objective raid to hijack equipment, I'd love to see how they address a power struggle in a bandit kingdom.  A junkyard salvage company versus a Pirate Queen with Clan Mechs.

Too much?

(As we brought up Pathfinder, I am running this game kind of like a Kingmaker style with CO rules.  Eventually might have them scout out former RWR worlds lost to the annals of time as part of any and all expansion projects.)

[Daryk]

I don't know your players, but from what you've said about them it sounds like they'll handle it just fine, and have a blast while they're at it...

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

How would you suggest the sessions go (all through "downtime")?  Deconstruction phase, reverse engineering phase, redesign phase, prototype phase, then production phase.  At each step of the way, how would you suggest rolls go for each step?  Operation:  Painkiller may take forever to get to, though, with how my players love just roleplaying wandering around the planet Winter in the Lyran Alliance.

  How involved are the players in each step of the process? Are they the experts, or is it beyond their understanding? When my players found Star League items, they approached several companies and not all of them were interested in, or capable of duplicating the items. One of the players failed his negotiations roll and was ripped off entirely. Again, these "gods on the battlefield" were not businessmen, the nobles with landholds left their properties in the hands of executors who skimmed a tidy percentage of the profits and the players were clueless, as long as they received their allowance. The further the players are away from monitoring the process, the higher the chance of a weak link, no matter who they may hire to do the work in their place.

  One of the things I value more than tech toys is data. Players able to use good data can move a campaign in interesting directions:

Pirates of Carver V Campaign:
  Okay, this was a small group of players, 3 mech pilots, 1 infantryman, 1 ASF pilot; The NPC Commander was based on Sterling Archer, so you already know he was just there to party and sign the paychecks:

“That’s enough!” Helga Rheinhardt rolled her eyes; unit briefings always degenerated like this. She paused a moment until she was certain that she regained their attention. “The Corporal’s personal life isn’t an issue here. According to his report he found a vast underground warehouse filled with crates.” She pressed the button on her remote and the image of rifle appeared, “Unfortunately, this one nonfunctional, pulse-laser infantry weapon was all he was able to smuggle out of the facility and off planet.”

 “Are you sure we have the correct information?” von Wiener held his notepad up and looked at the map on its display.
 “Our intelligence analysts have narrowed the search area to a five by five kilometer location.”
 Dover spoke, “By ‘intelligence analysts’ you mean Doctor Mengele and his wife, don’t you?”
 Rheinhardt crossed her arms, “Do you have a problem with that?”
 “Does anybody else have a problem with a guy who made a living doing biological warfare experiments on prisoners?”
 “I don’t,” commented von Wiener, “Who else would you use?”
 “Prisoners?”
 “Meaning the losers,” added the Baron, “Who believes that surrendering should be rewarded? Other than somebody from the FedSuns, who’d whine for a medal?”
 “Me from FedSuns,” declared Corporal Dong. “We not coward!”
 “Which FedSuns? The effeminate, tea-drinking FedSuns or the effeminate, wine-drinking FedSuns?” replied von Wiener with a dismissive gesture.

 “Ahem.” The Grafin frowned.
 “What if you were taken prisoner?” asked Dover.
 “Unlike the common rabble, I’d be ransomed,” replied the Baron.
 “Ahem.”
 “Well maybe some of the common rabble don’t have a wealthy mommy to bail them out.”
 “How is that my fault?”
 “Ahem!”
 “What?!” von Wiener raised his voice; he was obviously annoyed at the interruption.
 “This briefing isn’t over,” said the Grafin.

 “So we have a simple dig, grab and run, why do I have to go? Send the menials.”
 Rheinhardt continued, “Although no fighting is expected, Carver V is still border world with possible hostile elements present so the operation has to be discrete.”
 A handful of the attendees chuckled.
 “If you don’t want us to be noticed then make sure you don’t send the Baron,” said the shapely female ASF pilot, Seven E. Leven.
 “That’s right,” added Baron Helmuth. “As one of the best mercenary commanders in the universe, I’d be immediately recognized –So I’m not going.”
 There was more chuckling.

 “The plan requires some bureaucratic maneuvering and that requires your presence, Helmuth,” explained the Grafin. “Please reconsider.” She pressed a button on the remote and the image of a posh resort hotel appeared on the screen. “Over the years
since Corporal Dong’s discovery of the site, there have been numerous commercial improvements and development of the area. This hotel and gambling casino are located at the Northeast corner of the site and shopping mall is located at the Southwest corner.”
 
“And with all that renovation nobody found the cache?”
 “There is no record of anything like it being found,” replied the Grafin. “If everything goes as planned, the operation will take place during the Fasching celebration.”
 “That does it, I’m definitely not going,” announced the Baron. “It’s bad enough to be digging around for buried crap but why would I do it while surrounded by Catholics holding some drunken, farmer orgy?”
 “We going to orgy?” asked Dong, he looked somewhat hopeful.
 “Shut up,” snapped Rheinhardt. She used the remote to advance the image to one of a voluptuous blonde woman wearing an expensive gown, furs and jeweled tiara. “This is the Markgrafin Maria von Schleicher, the current owner of a major part of the site as well as the owner of the hotel and casino.”
 “Which means my presence there is essential to the success of the mission,” announced von Wiener, his interest suddenly piqued, “I suddenly see the possibilities of all manners of discreet insertion.”
 There was a sudden chorus of exasperated exclamations.
 “This is just like you,” scolded Leven. “Show you a large pair of boobs and you’re suddenly focused.”
 “You should know,” replied the Baron. “I’m ready to spearhead the undercover portion of this mission.”
 There were more exasperated moans.
 “Is that all?” asked Rheinhardt.
 “Just a moment,” he paused to take a breath. “Penetration,” the Baron said. “Okay, I’m
done.”

  The party decided to travel to Carver V under the guise of a holovid production company and obtained permission to film in various areas, including the hotel and shopping mall, under which the cache was hidden. What the party didn't know, there was a Maskirova team hunting for the same cache... Events all collided when the party, Maskirova team, and Fasching (German version of Mardi Gras) celebration attendees, all met at the mall, broke into opposite ends of the chamber containing the cache, and ending in a mall-wide shootout, with everybody dressed in pirate costumes...

[fever_Dream.)]

  How involved are the players in each step of the process? Are they the experts, or is it beyond their understanding? When my players found Star League items, they approached several companies and not all of them were interested in, or capable of duplicating the items. One of the players failed his negotiations roll and was ripped off entirely. Again, these "gods on the battlefield" were not businessmen, the nobles with landholds left their properties in the hands of executors who skimmed a tidy percentage of the profits and the players were clueless, as long as they received their allowance. The further the players are away from monitoring the process, the higher the chance of a weak link, no matter who they may hire to do the work in their place.

I talked with them last night and said that yeah, all this is going to be a series of rolls over downtime, provided they had successful missions.  I'm going to be using everyone's suggestions, coupled with a "work track" sort of like the one from Star Trek Adventures from Modiphius, sans breakthrough rolls.  It's going to be a long track for each step.

As the canon goes, Hopper found a Star League cache, so I fudged it that it got spread around his two planets.  The salvage company managed to yank the computers away, and now and then offers to repair Mechs, but with the new pirate queen, she's starting to get suspicious of this company's motives.  And hence why in my Chapter 2, it's going to focus more on the battle between the salvagers versus the Pirate Queen and her Star League/Clan tech.  I thought about them redesigning the Vampyrs and Carbines the company has Dark Age style.

  One of the things I value more than tech toys is data. Players able to use good data can move a campaign in interesting directions:

Pirates of Carver V Campaign:
  Okay, this was a small group of players, 3 mech pilots, 1 infantryman, 1 ASF pilot; The NPC Commander was based on Sterling Archer, so you already know he was just there to party and sign the paychecks:
  The party decided to travel to Carver V under the guise of a holovid production company and obtained permission to film in various areas, including the hotel and shopping mall, under which the cache was hidden. What the party didn't know, there was a Maskirova team hunting for the same cache... Events all collided when the party, Maskirova team, and Fasching (German version of Mardi Gras) celebration attendees, all met at the mall, broke into opposite ends of the chamber containing the cache, and ending in a mall-wide shootout, with everybody dressed in pirate costumes...

Damn, now you're going to force me to novelize my current adventures.  Revenge of the Nerds MMMLXVII:  Pirate Trouble on Winter.  And that's after the 61 reboots over eight centuries.

Let's see.  I have asthmatic Lyran Noble who is Tony Stark obsessed with creating an AI and power armor (I'm kind of railroading him into quad armor to be funny).  A Lyran noble's kid who did the family service in the military, then after the FedCom Civil War, hooked up with the "salvage" company the players work for.  He runs the industrial mechs and is happy to live low key, even if he is flaunting his nobility on Winter, which I'm thinking of having it hurt him.  A street thug from the Rim Collection who is essentially Black Widow who is badass at melee and shooting, but knows to run from Mechs and heavily armed infantry.  Enforcer for the salvagers.  A spacer who know is the dropship pilot that is good at doing tricky landings and take offs for getaways to the jumpship in orbit. Skull tattoos everywhere, so it's been fun with the nobles trying to go all "My Fair Lady" with her.  A Belter doctor who made her way to the periphery because her neuropharmacological experiments didn't exactly have IRB approval.  So, she's Timothy Leary who brings her Belter augment knowledge with her.  She runs a clinic on The Rack, but sometimes people get a little more to their prescriptions.

I absolutely adore this group.

I'm tempted to make a second game, one which does focus on the Mechwarriors that work with the "salvage" company that is, in fact, headed by a Malory Archer with Ukiyo-e tattoos.  Former Circinian pit fighter slave who doesn't want people to suffer, hence why she's been using her company to help refugees, but there's still that cutthroat dark side PTSD that comes out.  I don't have the players interact with her much except when she's in Malory mode, because they want a lighthearted game.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

Damn, now you're going to force me to novelize my current adventures. 

  Pretty much all of my fiction is based on my campaigns, the PG-rated ones, at least. My R-rated adventures are posted on FB but I spend most of the year banned 30 days at a time for "violating community standards" through some algorithm that kicks me out the moment I post a comment contrary to the FB narrative, with no possible appeal...go figure.

  BTW, help yourself to any and all of the campaigns I've posted; Take the plots and run with them. For NPCs, I cast known actors or characters, from Archer to Woody Allen, to Slim Pickens. One campaign featured a famous Japanese legendary character from the Japanese language television channel (growing up in Hawaii, we had regular Japanese and Filipino programming on TV. Toyama no Kinsan was a Tokugawa-era chief of police that often patrolled the Edo (Tokyo) underworld for criminal gangs and famous for his sakura (cherry blossom tattoo) covering his shoulder, that he would display to the bad guys before subduing them and the players acted as deputies/bounty hunters that would burst in to make the arrests and drag the villains into custody. In order to take the baddies prisoner, the players all had a skill that allowed them to aim low without the usual penalties, which meant their targets would be legged and prefer to surrender, believing the only witness was a tattooed thug named Kinsan, and not the Chief of Police/Judicial Magistrate.
Toyama no Kinsan: (I watched his show every Saturday night). After he caught the villains in the act, his dramatic line was: "My sakura have witnessed your evil deeds; Scatter them if you can!" His PHX 1-b was painted with cherry blossoms, just like his tattoo.)

  Kinsan had a team of Ninja-type infiltrators and spies who would dig up leads and he'd sneak up on the villains to catch them in the act, with the players close by to back him up and make the arrests.
  Running a Kinsan campaign allows players to be mech police, infiltrators, spies, detectives, etc., so go ahead and have fun battling gangs, smugglers, pirates and human traffickers, all without having to leave town.

[fever_Dream.)]

  Pretty much all of my fiction is based on my campaigns, the PG-rated ones, at least. My R-rated adventures are posted on FB but I spend most of the year banned 30 days at a time for "violating community standards" through some algorithm that kicks me out the moment I post a comment contrary to the FB narrative, with no possible appeal...go figure.

  BTW, help yourself to any and all of the campaigns I've posted; Take the plots and run with them. For NPCs, I cast known actors or characters, from Archer to Woody Allen, to Slim Pickens. One campaign featured a famous Japanese legendary character from the Japanese language television channel (growing up in Hawaii, we had regular Japanese and Filipino programming on TV. Toyama no Kinsan was a Tokugawa-era chief of police that often patrolled the Edo (Tokyo) underworld for criminal gangs and famous for his sakura (cherry blossom tattoo) covering his shoulder, that he would display to the bad guys before subduing them and the players acted as deputies/bounty hunters that would burst in to make the arrests and drag the villains into custody. In order to take the baddies prisoner, the players all had a skill that allowed them to aim low without the usual penalties, which meant their targets would be legged and prefer to surrender, believing the only witness was a tattooed thug named Kinsan, and not the Chief of Police/Judicial Magistrate.
Toyama no Kinsan: (I watched his show every Saturday night). After he caught the villains in the act, his dramatic line was: "My sakura have witnessed your evil deeds; Scatter them if you can!" His PHX 1-b was painted with cherry blossoms, just like his tattoo.)

  Kinsan had a team of Ninja-type infiltrators and spies who would dig up leads and he'd sneak up on the villains to catch them in the act, with the players close by to back him up and make the arrests.
  Running a Kinsan campaign allows players to be mech police, infiltrators, spies, detectives, etc., so go ahead and have fun battling gangs, smugglers, pirates and human traffickers, all without having to leave town.

I'm pretty shameless in appropriating other GM's ideas.  I have been digging around the forums for ideas, though I try not to write too much.  No plan survives contact with the enemy and all that.

I just secretly hope that I come up with things that people feel are worthy enough to put into their games.  Heh.

I feel like writing up a Touring the Stars kind of thing for The Rack, or any of the Dark Age Rim Territories planets.

[fever_Dream.)]

Renamed the thread to more reflect me just making a FAQ, sharing stories, and whatever.

Big question:  So, one of my armies I made for BattleTech was McIntyre's House Guard.  As much, his family, before all his domain got glassed, seemed to be the only "noble" family, but is that the situation?  Is there a case that there's highly influential families there?  Something akin to nobility?  Would they have their own minor noble houses that pledge to House McIntyre?  I'm asking because I'm rolling up contracts for the players when Chapter 2 of my game starts.

[skiltao]

The presidential family and the leadership of the Black Warriors were the only families I remember being mentioned. The other worlds are relatively newly settled and I think the political establishment is described as disorganized, so I doubt there's any particularly well-established families on the civilian side.

Membership in the Black Warriors may be hereditary. I believe their "rightful" leader was displaced in the 3050s, and I don't recall how that played out in the 3060s and 3070s, or how much power the various lieutenants might have (especially once Circinus allies with WoB).

[fever_Dream.)]

The presidential family and the leadership of the Black Warriors were the only families I remember being mentioned. The other worlds are relatively newly settled and I think the political establishment is described as disorganized, so I doubt there's any particularly well-established families on the civilian side.

Membership in the Black Warriors may be hereditary. I believe their "rightful" leader was displaced in the 3050s, and I don't recall how that played out in the 3060s and 3070s, or how much power the various lieutenants might have (especially once Circinus allies with WoB).

Yeah, it was a difficult read (as in, me puzzling the idea of nobility) from Handbook Major Periphery States.  So I think I'll just have the NPC be from one of the Successor states.  Or I could go Astrokaszy.

[Daryk]

Astrokaszy is always a good time...  ^-^

[fever_Dream.)]

Astrokaszy is always a good time...  ^-^

I quite agree.

Now onto something speculative.  I'm seeing i have possible time to run a second campaign.  I'd run it as a kind of "What if?" scene.  The idea I'm toying with is "What if the United Hindu Collective agitated and seceded from the Federated Suns?"  Like, when int he timeline would that make for an okay campaign.  If that would make for a good campaign, or whatever.

What if the Malagrotta Cooperative survived, but went legit thanks to the actions of the players?
What if Clan scientists had quickly gone to work making Jade Wolf gene lines, only to find out it was a sham?  What if some took off with the frozen embryos and went somewhere, like a former RWR planet?

I don't know.  Anyone do any "What ifs?"

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

I don't know.  Anyone do any "What ifs?"

  Every campaign is a "What if?" Since few of my players liked to lead, they usually worked under an employer who set the stage for the players to have fun. The only campaign where the players actually led the unit was a hilarious Clan Burrock campaign, where the player who won the first Trial of Position was so inept at administration that he was removed from his job as Trinary commander and replaced by a player who had all the needed skills.

[Daryk]

As far as the UHC, what if it never joined the Federated Suns to begin with?  8)

[Draven0019]

I don't know if there are still people watching this or not, I've started GM for the first time with a couple of friends who have almost no knowledge of the setting, spent about 1-2 hours with each of them building a character with only one rule, the year is 2865, no clan stuff.
Ended up with:
a one armed Mechanic who was raised in the belts of Sol, born in FWL
a Lian Deserter who was in an expedition unit, Lone survivor after team triggered a SLDF Trap.
and a former Scout, kicked out of the army for being to much trouble at the end of the 2SW.

all found their way to Davion space to work as Salvage operators and day labors helping with rebuilding a shattered world.

[Daryk]

That sounds very cool!  :thumbsup:

[Renard]

Update:  Yes, the other players did help.  And it turns out to be a compelling character now.

Player 5:  Canopian.  Typical high school jock.  Smug footballer who has tried to charm every cheerleader from Vixen to Canopus.  Riding on that popularity, tried to get into the academy.  But in Canopus, popularity alone doesn't get you into the Canopian Institute of War.  Managed to convince a family to train him personally... if he married their daughter.  Agreed, turns out he was damn good at what he does.  Was about to have his way paid into the Canopian Highlanders when he welched on the marriage.  Soon he discovers that Hell hath no fury than a Canopian Woman scorned...  And it's led to him having a kind of paranoia about women in general.  Especially well-dressed women.

I actually really like that character.  And I get to put him in a run down Stinger owned by a landowner to pay off all his debts.  I'm not dissing Stingers.  Love the buggers.

Again, thanks for the advice and conversation, folks.

The problem is mostly me, and I realize why.  I like my players' characters to at least have character flaws.  Nothing crippling, just something that makes them stick out.

You're a good dude. I am proud of you.