'mechs which turned out to be far more useful than they were designed to be.

[Dayton3]

By this I mean 'mech designs that greatly exceeded their designed for roles.   Or were far more adaptable that initially predicted to be.

I have a couple in mine.   

First the Firestarter.   Initially conceived as a dedicated incendiary 'mech (as obvious by the name).,  the Firestarter had a wide range of uses and even proved to be the basis for an early omnimech.

Second the Blackjack.  While much of the Blackjacks problems were bad press,   over the long haul it proved to be a highly capable machine.   Much more than many in the Inner Sphere militaries expected.   And like the Firestarter it proved to be the basis of an early omnimech.

[DevianID]

The Rifleman.  Started out as an anti air unit, but turned out to be a fantastic direct fire support mech.

The whitworth.  A simple missile mech that hits a ton of great break points, and slots into almost any lance despite being only 40 tons.

[Hammerhead]

Seconded on the Blackjack and Whitworth. These two have made me occasionally feel out a unit composed entirely of Mechs with bad in-universe reputations.

From a strictly game-play perspective, I’ll nominate the Crusader-3R. Like many, I saw it as a grenade waiting to go, so tried to play it as fire-support with not nearly enough ammo. Once I learned it’s tricks and started playing it as more of a single-engagement closer, it really became one of my more favoured heavies.

[Daryk]

It's odd those first four all lack hands...

[Ruger]

I’d nominate the Dervish-6M and Shadow Hawk-2H. Not much on their own, but as lancemates, they truly shine. They can contribute to virtually any unit to which they are assigned, having weapons that can add to both long and short-range combats, and are pretty mobile.

Ruger

[Dayton3]

What about the Hatchetman?    In many ways it was designed as almost solely an urban combat, guerrilla fighter,  but with the AC10 or especially the later LB-10X it has a major role to play in things like air defense.

[Saint]

I'll throw in the Rakshasa. It's not a Mad Cat, but it's a good IS calvary harasser. It also makes for a sold bodyguard for a Fire support lance.

I'll also second the Dervish and Shadow Hawk.

[Wolf72]

It's odd those first four all lack hands...

no hands for the Crusader? New art has some, not sure on RS (new KS RS has them at least) ssssbbbttttttt -to you Daryk!

[Daryk]

The Crusader was #5...  :)

[Dapper Apples]

I feel like the cicada got a bit of a glow up after XL engines.  After that it could leverage its medium-ness into being a fast, heavy weapon carrier.

[Charistoph]

I feel like the cicada got a bit of a glow up after XL engines.  After that it could leverage its medium-ness into being a fast, heavy weapon carrier.

We have a CDA-3C in our campaign right now, and its player loves it.  It's annoying enough that it often becomes a target and gets hammered.  True, an XL Engine would make it even nastier in getting its PPC in to position, but a 7/11 PPC is not anything to sneeze at.

[Scotty]

It seems telling to me that all of the designs mentioned so far have initial/primary variants that are absolutely terrible, and aside from the Rakshasa all of them are not-particularly-good Introductory designs on top of that.

My vote goes to the Uziel, by dint of the one that was originally designed including an IS LPL and an LB-2X, before we got the sublime 2S and the excellent 8S.

[five_corparty]

Agree with everything so far (Rakashasha really are hidden gems, especially)

I have had AMAZING luck/results with the two elemental killers, Snake and ESPECIALLY the Komodo.  As parts of lances, they're GREAT, and especially if you can have them fight lighter things / vehicles?  They truly go above and beyond.

You're all going to laugh, but I get SOOO much mileage out of the humble Zeus 6Y!  yes, the ONE WITH THE BLAZER. :-)  it's a very traditional Zeus, it can soak up a LOT of hits, it's dirt cheap, and has a headcapper!  People WANT to ignore it and then realize after a couple of close calls, that now they have to sink some time in taking it down giving the rest of the lance time to play!

It's a great fire support mech, and because it's cheap enough for GOOD gunners, it's also AMAZING as sniping legs / whole torsos off of lights that wander too close.

Just, overall, it's a solid little addition to a force to serve as a headcapping initiative sink the enemy can't ignore... :-)

[Daryk]

Blazer Cannons represent!  :D

[Fat Guy]

TRO 2750 says the MON-66 Mongoose was originally designed for deep reconnaissance, but commanders began to adapt it to front-line duty.

[Starfury]

1. The Guillotine, in any version.  It's a great jump capable, competitive low cost heavy raider and brawler that works well in any heavy lance.  Even the 3025 downgrade is well done. Low heat, excellent heat sink capacity, and it really only has 2 bad variants the WB 2 and 3 (not enough heat sinks or LRM-15 ammo.)  People never remember it when they're picking out designs, but the 3N, 5M and 8Ds are staples of any Comstar, Marik or Davion unit I use.

2. The Ostroc-This is the bread and butter of low cost 5/8 heavy brawler lance. You get two larges, two medos, and an SRM 4 rack, all torso mounted, while the arms act as damage absorbers.  The Ostroc moves fast enough to be a command unit for the 55 ton trio, works well in groups, and looks great as well.

The 2D is a simple DHS/ER LL upgrade which is great for mercs, Periphery powers, or any medium tier House unit.  Later variants add more guns, jump jets, ferro-fibrous armor, and so on, but it and the Ostol are both Marik staples.  Death eggs unite!

3. The Crab. The Crab is another lower BV cost energy brawler that is a great trooper. The Royal variant is another easily made swap for Jihad era Crabs, by simply adding DHS and IS ER LL. I still don't know why the resource poor Clans, like Blood Spirit or Fire Mandrill, didn't upgrade the Royal Crab and add it as their main second line mech. You have to blow it apart in order to kill it.

4. The Chameleon 7Z- This is another surprise unit everyone overlooks once it's out in 3058. For 1527 BV you get a 50 tonner that moves 6/9/6, 300 XL, Endo Steel, 12 DHS, max armor, 1 ER Large and 2 regular IS Large Lasers.  Add this to any heavy scout or skirmisher lance, and you have a mobile energy battery for your needs. By the Early Republic, everyone has access to it, and I can see it working especially well for the Magistracy as a lancemate for Agroteras and Shadow Hawks.

5. The Yeoman.  Yes, it looks like a 1980s Gobot. Yes it has no secondary guns, except for the Jihad era variant which swaps out the LRM-15s for 4 MML 5s, jump jets, an XL gyro, and more armor. But it does its job, which is to provide LRM support.  A lance of Yeomen is a deadly sight when you have Narc or TAG equipped spotters for semi-guided LRMs.  Add in proper screening forces, and the Yeoman will usually come back home.

[Daryk]

In the Raiding role, the Guillotine is missing the most important factor: HANDS.  ^-^

[Colt Ward]

I'll throw in the Rakshasa. It's not a Mad Cat, but it's a good IS calvary harasser. It also makes for a sold bodyguard for a Fire support lance.

A lot of the Rak's problems got solved by the -1Ar.

[Charistoph]

First the Firestarter.   Initially conceived as a dedicated incendiary 'mech (as obvious by the name).,  the Firestarter had a wide range of uses and even proved to be the basis for an early omnimech.

For our campaign, I upgraded my stinger pilot to an FS9-A.  It has earned it's cost on several occasions.  Normally, I'm not a fan of that Bic, in general, but I knew we would be facing Infantry sooner or later.

First time was when our Force Commander Jumped in to the middle of some buildings in his Phoenix Hawk, then got knocked out by the Infantry in said buildings.  I was late, so another player was using it, and since another of my pilots were there, I let him keep using it.  He started going in a cycle of Jumping in, flaming all the Infantry, then Jumping out to cool.  Being able to put a Flamer in every single Firing Arc is just nasty when dealing with grouped up Infantry.

Latest was an Alpha Strike mission where my "lance" was up against a lance of Hovercraft and a lance of recon 'Mechs.  I stupidly mentioned what the HT rule would due to Vehicles, and they started targeting it exclusively.  It ended up so damaged it was taken down in the last turn as it was trying to secure an objective (Engine hit and one Structure left gave it little else to do).  The rest of the Lance only got hit by strafing Aerospace (and Artillery finished the rest).

[Saint]

A lot of the Rak's problems got solved by the -1Ar.

I've had better luck with the 1B, but the 1Ar is a great update.

[OatsAndHall]

The Rifleman.  Started out as an anti air unit, but turned out to be a fantastic direct fire support mech.

The whitworth.  A simple missile mech that hits a ton of great break points, and slots into almost any lance despite being only 40 tons.

I second the Rifleman; great as a cheap sniper/direct fire support. It's low base BV allows you to put a quality pilot in it and pick at people from range.

[Dayton3]

I second the Rifleman; great as a cheap sniper/direct fire support. It's low base BV allows you to put a quality pilot in it and pick at people from range.

I like the Rifleman because I think the ability to flip over the arms and fire at opponents behind you is a vastly underappreciated capability.

[ckosacranoid]

The urban mech...from very overlooked to becoming the new Battletech mascot...not sure why though?

[Dayton3]

The urban mech...from very overlooked to becoming the new Battletech mascot...not sure why though?

Could be because it's so slow infantry doesn't have to worry about it running over them.

[OatsAndHall]

I like the Rifleman because I think the ability to flip over the arms and fire at opponents behind you is a vastly underappreciated capability.

Agreed; the ability to bear full force to the rear is underrated. The one serious downside to the Rifleman is his lack of armor. But, that can be accounted for through smart play. I like to throw a 1/5 or 2/5 pilot in that mech and pester people at range. The mech won't be overly expensive and can land some nice shots at range. When I run him, I like to put him up on hill where he has multiple LOS and then play conservatively until I see how the opposition responds. Sometimes the Rifleman becomes fire support, sometimes he sets up a nice trap for an opposing force that focuses on him too much.

[Sir Chaos]

I like the Rifleman because I think the ability to flip over the arms and fire at opponents behind you is a vastly underappreciated capability.

It is somewhat undermined by the laughably thin rear armor of the Rifleman... but hey, being able to blast the backstabber once is still better than not being able to do it at all.

[House Davie Merc]

I like the Rifleman because I think the ability to flip over the arms and fire at opponents behind you is a vastly underappreciated capability.

The flipping arms on the Rifleman would  probably be a more appreciated ability if it's rear armor wasn't made from wet newspaper .

[Dayton3]

It would probably be a more appreciated ability if the rear armor on the Rifleman wasn't made from wet newspaper .

Are there any Rifleman variants with upgraded rear armor?

[Dapper Apples]

The urban mech...from very overlooked to becoming the new Battletech mascot...not sure why though?

Overal goofy appearance, comically slow speed, but also really big gun.  Gives it "little mech that could" vibes.

Helps that its actually quite decent in an urban fight.

[House Davie Merc]

Are there any Rifleman variants with upgraded rear armor?

There are multiple variants with better rear armor post 3050 .

In the 3025 era only the 3C variant with the twin AC/10s has more rear armor-but it still only has 4
in each rear side torso .
Rear flipping is a great option to have and I've surprised a number of opponents that forget
that the Rifleman can do that-but in earlier eras it's rear armor is so thin it's
a one shot deal .  If they are behind you and hit you in the rear armor with a medium
laser or more it's internal . The Jagermech is the same way .


As for the subject of the OP- I say the Phoenix Hawk .

Originally just supposed to be a beefed up Stinger it became SO much more .
It's the Swiss Army Knife of mechs .

[Starfury]

I'll add the Hermes II and the Clint to this list. They're both 6/9 40 tonners that pack varying medium to high damage long range guns, and rely either on jump jets or armor to carry then through a fight. The later era variants end up with ER PPCs, Ultra ACs, Large Pulse Lasers or even Heavy PPCs, and make great light iS mech hunters (Clan lights, not quite as much, but the Hermes II with the Heavy PPC or the Ultra AC/5 Large Pulse combo are a good start in the right direction.)

Team either one or both up along with other 40 ton units like the  ER PPC equipped 8/12/8 Cicada or the  Chimera, and you have a nasty skirmisher unit. And another 40 tonner just occured to me: The Daimyo. It's a simple, medium tech, inexpensive trooper you could use in any unit, and it even has C3 slave and master cariants. I think I've only ever seen one DC player use it.

[Mechman08]

I’ve gotten a surprising amount of mileage out of the Banshee BNC-3E back when I was playing on a 3025 MekWars server.  It was a common but unpopular factory pull, it’s excessive armor to firepower ratio tending to divert enemy fire into squishier lance mates.  Due to this, they could be picked up in a trade for next to nothing, as faction teammates wanted to free up mechbays for better units.

Now, one BNC-3E in a 6k BV Lance will likely be a bad case of All My Friends Are Dead syndrome, as more dangerous mechs get focused down.  Four BNC-3E’s in a 6k BV Lance is a (relatively) fast wall of armor that can hold its own at range and physically dog pile lighter machines (particularly the weak legged Whammies and Marauders) that get too close or fall.

I won more Lance to Lance fights with this kind of setup than I lost.  Relatively easy replacement also meant they could be treated as expendable.  A couple matches I won in part because my pain point for campaign losses was higher; I didn’t have a favorite mech I wanted to preserve for later games.  I don’t think my Mechwarriors appreciated this policy, but the generals were happy  ;D

[pokefan548]

I won more Lance to Lance fights with this kind of setup than I lost.  Relatively easy replacement also meant they could be treated as expendable.  A couple matches I won in part because my pain point for campaign losses was higher; I didn’t have a favorite mech I wanted to preserve for later games.  I don’t think my Mechwarriors appreciated this policy, but the generals were happy  ;D

Ah, the Charger method.
Speaking of, if we're allowing Variants the Charger gets a nice glow-up once the Kuritans start toying with the design.

[Daryk]

I think Banshees would beat Chargers at their own game...  ^-^

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Malice.

Sure, four LB-5X ACs and four ER Medium lasers are pop guns on a 100 tonner, but it's also a 100 ton mech that moves 4/6 and has max armor with a  BV of a mere 1,852.

[five_corparty]

The Malice.

Sure, four LB-5X ACs and four ER Medium lasers are pop guns on a 100 tonner, but it's also a 100 ton mech that moves 4/6 and has max armor with a  BV of a mere 1,852.

... I may have to try that out!  My group plays with a lot of Vees and elementals, and that seems like something that could maul them at range while the rest of the lance is mixing it up!

[Colt Ward]

Vehs for sure . . . LBX is just going to make Elementals angry.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Actually, you hit an Elemental point with a few bursts of cluster rounds to soften them up, then switch over to slugs and lasers and you can pop them pretty quickly.

[Daryk]

That sounds like a totally workable strategy...  ^-^

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Battle Armor are actually the one unit type where it's mathmatically advantageous to hit them with the smallest damage clusters first in the hopes of spreading those around before hitting them with the bigger cluster, provide the bigger cluster can't one-hit kill the BA.

[five_corparty]

Vehs for sure . . . LBX is just going to make Elementals angry.

Nah, mate, you just roll a 2 to crit them or 12 to cap them in the head or -holds earpiece- oh, I'm sorry, I'm hearing from the booth I have no idea what I'm talking about and we here at Fifth Corps regret the error... ;-) hahahaha

(I mostly meant the Vees, against the elementals, was more thinking spreading some love and then someone coming behind and picking up the spare) :-)

[Colt Ward]

Actually, you hit an Elemental point with a few bursts of cluster rounds to soften them up, then switch over to slugs and lasers and you can pop them pretty quickly.

4 LB-5X . . . so, let's see at range.  One turn plinking with cluster, 50% of clusters hit, spread across all the Elementals in a point- so 2 damage to each suit.  Switch to slugs!  All of them hit! . . . 4 troopers now have 7 damage and one has 2.  Next turn, slugs again and all of them hit!  Best result, you kill 4 Elementals on the 3rd turn . . . other option with 'ideal' dispersion is you kill 3 and now have the 2 remaining troopers with 7 damage.  Turn 4!, slugs manage to pummel those last two standing down.  You have no used your assault mech to take 4 turns to kill a point of Elementals- tactical victory, whoever is fielding the Elementals.

Odds of the Elementals letting you keep LOS for that time?
What else is happening among the rest of the forces in the battle?

Pass- the Malice is better on AA or Anti-Veh duty with the ERMLs dealing with whatever gets close.

[Demon55]

The Crab.  I have used a couple and never regretted it.

[five_corparty]

The Crab.  I have used a couple and never regretted it.

The new one in the Rec Guides is AMAZING...!

[Fortyone]

The Longbow, and it's many variants, become a lot more useful when you start playing with alternate ammo types. Most have enough ammo bins that you can take several and there's even a variant with autocannons or Arrow IV if that's your thing.

[Caedis Animus]

The Gun, specifically the HPPC configuration.

A single Gun, in a random pick up game of four lances (8v8), managed to hold down a firing corridor far more effectively than the Cougar C it was paired with-continuing to fire downrange even after getting legged by a Venom, even taking down another mech in that timeframe with a headcap and legging the Venom in return after it had retreated for 'less dangerous' targets at an 11 to hit. In fact, it survived four more turns than the Cougar it was paired with, only finally dying when an enemy Fireball managed to finally get close and finish it off.

Ever since that match, I have a serious love for 'cheap big gun' lights.

[Jellico]

Ursus. ECM in an era where C3 exploded and countermeasures were rare on Clan Mechs, and the Ursus is very well heat sinked making its low power weapons far better at grinding out a win than they look.