Kampfgruppe Steiner Operation: Götterdämmerung or how we survived the Dark Age.

[Flieger]

Sure, I don't think there can be any controversy about the Combine's intentions. It is one of the reasons why Free Skye fighters had no problems riding to war with the Lyrans, contrary to the ISA's false predictions before the 4th SW which apparently overstated the hostility of Skye towards the Lyrans.

[Flieger]

Let us talk about the Royal Guards Brigade.

If I understand it correctly, the Royal Guards were not deployed against the Clans. Why? Especially the Third Royal Guards had a reputation of being the offensive arm of the Brigade, the trouble-shooter unit that goes whereever the LCAF need them to be. Certainly the Clan Invasion was a crisis which justified using at least the Third.

[JadedFalcon]

Maybe it falls under being too important to be disposable? The 3rd was used in Bulldog, but that was arguably a more important statement than just tossing them into the Clan front. That's what mercs and Skye Rangers were for. Why the 3rd Royals were garrisoning Northwind on '57 instead of something more prestigious is also pretty strange.

[Flieger]

I am sorry, I should have specified I meant during the original Clan Invasion. As you said, the Third fought the Clans (and I agree that was probably more a symbolic gesture, since the hard work was done by the 11th Lyran Guards).

The 3rd Royal Guards on Northwind is a strange story, indeed. Especially the chronology is weird, since the Lyran Alliance was already declared and Lyran units were called back. The 3rd Royals still answered Victor, which is strange - to put it mildly. Funny enough, my German version of the novel Highlander Gambit calls the unit: "3. Royal Davion Guards RKG". Iit seems the translator of this novel was under the impression the 3rd Royal Guards were a Davion unit! I wonder what the English original says...

[JadedFalcon]

Purely conjecture, but the Royals might have been held back in case things got even worse than they already were in the early invasion years. The FedCom was much more comfortable throwing mercs at the Clans, which is understandable when entire RCTs like the 8th Arcturan and the 12th Donegal were getting eaten.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Maybe it falls under being too important to be disposable? The 3rd was used in Bulldog, but that was arguably a more important statement than just tossing them into the Clan front. That's what mercs and Skye Rangers were for. Why the 3rd Royals were garrisoning Northwind on '57 instead of something more prestigious is also pretty strange.

IIRC, Blane Pardoe said that when he was writing Highlander Gambit he originally used a Davion unit for that role, but then that unit got used in another novel (Operation Excalibur, maybe), so it got switched to the 3rd Royal Guard at the last minute.

[Flieger]

Purely conjecture, but the Royals might have been held back in case things got even worse than they already were in the early invasion years. The FedCom was much more comfortable throwing mercs at the Clans, which is understandable when entire RCTs like the 8th Arcturan and the 12th Donegal were getting eaten.

Possible. The negative moral effect of a Royal Guards regiment cut to pieces by the Clans would be considerable. On the other hand though, I cannot imagine the soldiers were all too happy seeing the flower of the LCAF sitting on Tharkad while they were butchered. And I doubt the Royals themselves were comfortable with their backseat.
In a way, this experience may explain their overzealous eagerness to fight on Northwind.

IIRC, Blane Pardoe said that when he was writing Highlander Gambit he originally used a Davion unit for that role, but then that unit got used in another novel (Operation Excalibur, maybe), so it got switched to the 3rd Royal Guard at the last minute.

It would make sense; in the book (at least in my translation) there are many direct and indirect references to Bradford and his unit being Davion, and everything falls into place thinking of the unit as FedSuns unit. I wonder why a Steiner unit took its place, though.

[Col.Hengist]

It could be that they were holding them in reserve if the clans managed to try to take Tharkad.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It would make sense; in the book (at least in my translation) there are many direct and indirect references to Bradford and his unit being Davion, and everything falls into place thinking of the unit as FedSuns unit. I wonder why a Steiner unit took its place, though.

I think it was a hasty, last minute switch and they didn't have much time to double-check things.

[JadedFalcon]

I think it was a hasty, last minute switch and they didn't have much time to double-check things.

Also interesting that it wasn't changed to a different FedSuns unit. Curious if there was a directive to "villainize" Lyrans in the build-up to the FCCW. I remember the Lyrans being painted as aggressors in one of the Capellan civil war novels.

But from late Clan Invasion on, it looks like the 3rd Royal has some exciting times.

[Flieger]

The 3rd had some tough nuts to crack before the Clans, too. On Hesperus II they were central to battlegroup which repulsed Wolf's Dragoons, making them one of the few units to the defeat the pre-Invasion Dragoons; later they went toe to toe with the 2nd Sword of Light, a unit of at least equal prestige, skill, and fanaticism.
While it could be argued that the 1st and 2nd Royals were deployed in extreme emergency only, like the 1st on Dromini VI following Frederick's 10th, the 3rd Royals were always in the thick of the LCAF's struggle. 

It would have made sense to keep the 1st and 2nd in reserve, even if there was no threat to Tharkad, but I do not see any reason for the 3rd not to be deployed. To me, the situation just screams for it.

Also interesting that it wasn't changed to a different FedSuns unit. Curious if there was a directive to "villainize" Lyrans in the build-up to the FCCW. I remember the Lyrans being painted as aggressors in one of the Capellan civil war novels.

Possible, but I suspect there was another reason: the 3rd Davion Guards were destroyed on Hesperus II by the GDL, and the events on Northwind happened at exactly the same time. Using another Davion Guards regiment on Northwind would have meant to destroy two of them in the same year, both defeated by mercs.

Ironically, I think the 3rd Davion Guards also are not the best choice, and perhaps both stories would have worked better had they switched roles with the 3rd Royal Guards.

[JadedFalcon]

Possible, but I suspect there was another reason: the 3rd Davion Guards were destroyed on Hesperus II by the GDL, and the events on Northwind happened at exactly the same time. Using another Davion Guards regiment on Northwind would have meant to destroy two of them in the same year, both defeated by mercs.

Ironically, I think the 3rd Davion Guards also are not the best choice, and perhaps both stories would have worked better had they switched roles with the 3rd Royal Guards.

Ah! Now things start to make more sense, from a larger story perspective. The 3rd Davion Guards gets trashed on a Lyran world and the 3rd Royal Guards are wrecked on the FedSuns doorstep, far from the Clan front. Sounds like the kind of thing that fierce nationalists get riled up about during the build-up to the FCCW.

[Flieger]

Intriguing idea! From this point of view, the "strange" unit choices make perfect sense, indeed. Or it was the most ingenious couple of mistakes ever... In universe, I can truly imagine nationalists being angry about the destruction of some of their greatest units at the hands of mercs in battles which should not have been fought in the first place. Yes, that makes some sense.

PS: now you have done it. I began to like the 3rd Royals! I never liked the brigade, but now...

[Flieger]

Question: did the LCAF ever clash with the CCAF on a larger scale? I know there is Operation Guerrero, but the combat usually did not last long because of the Alliance's secession. Are there any other battles?

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Going off memory:

I seem to remember the AT1 rulebook mentioned a Steiner vs Liao raid.

I also want to say one of the Battles of Hesperus II was Liao raiding it.

[Nahuris]

I tend to go with Lyran Regulars, as well ... usually the 10th, but as I play all the way through the Jihad, any of them work, as they were all Green and Tans.
As for mechs, I tend towards the Commandos, Razorbacks, and other fast units, to include a Blade purchased from the Republic. If you need support and recon, I have Locusts, and Jenners taken from their former owners, and put to a more honorable purpose. And I can back them with Bushwackers, and maybe a Griffin, or two. And of course, my Darts and Fireballs...

Nahuris

[JadedFalcon]

Question: did the LCAF ever clash with the CCAF on a larger scale? I know there is Operation Guerrero, but the combat usually did not last long because of the Alliance's secession. Are there any other battles?

The 23rd Arcturan Guards got wrecked on Tikinov by Dai Da Chi in '67, but this wasn't really a major offensive either. Maybe in the 4th SW? Prior to the FedCom treaty, the Lyrans sold military hardware to the Capellans, so I don't think they interacted much.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Going off memory:

I seem to remember the AT1 rulebook mentioned a Steiner vs Liao raid.

I also want to say one of the Battles of Hesperus II was Liao raiding it.

The Liao vs Steiner raid in AT1 is the "Close but no cigar" scenario... but no system is specified.

And it was McCarron's Big Mac that raided Hesperus II... so it wasn't technically the CCAF.

[Flieger]

The 23rd Arcturan Guards got wrecked on Tikinov by Dai Da Chi in '67, but this wasn't really a major offensive either.

... especially since the bulk of the 23rd had already left the planet.

However, the Civil War is a good hint nonetheless, since it left some Lyran regiments stranded in the FedSuns. The 4th and 8th Donegal Guards found themselves on the receiving end of Operation Thunderstrike. The 8th was almost wiped out by three attacking CCAF regiments on Kathil, and the 4th was destroyed on New Syrtis (quite an irony, as they had been fighting Hasek's troops in the Civil War).
But these actions are just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, although the 4th did have a history of raiding the CapCon.

Too bad, I think a CCAF vs LCAF is a scenario which has a certain appeal to me, although I cannot explain what the appeal actually is...

[Col.Hengist]

I tend to go with Lyran Regulars, as well ... usually the 10th, but as I play all the way through the Jihad, any of them work, as they were all Green and Tans.
As for mechs, I tend towards the Commandos, Razorbacks, and other fast units, to include a Blade purchased from the Republic. If you need support and recon, I have Locusts, and Jenners taken from their former owners, and put to a more honorable purpose. And I can back them with Bushwackers, and maybe a Griffin, or two. And of course, my Darts and Fireballs...

Nahuris

 Dude, you just decided to make a Steiner unit a few weeks ago...

[Nahuris]

Dude, you just decided to make a Steiner unit a few weeks ago...

I've played them before - finally decided to paint up the minis --- there is a reason I have 4 Commandos, a Razorback, 2 Fireballs, a Dart, and others in my collection....LOL

Nahuris

[worktroll]

Guten tag, gentlefolk! Need some Steiner-oriented wisdom for one of my mini builds. I've got an incoming shipment which will round off a number of my combined armour battalion builds, so time to start planning the next few months' shopping list.

So I've got what I think is a nice Clan Invasion-era Lyran 'Mech company going, consisting of:

Recon/Light Striker/Pursuit lance:
Hermes II HER-5S, Wolfhound WLF-1, Wolfhound WLF-2, Commando COM-5S

Command/Medium Battle/Striker lance:
Hatchetman HCT-5S, Bushwhacker BSW-S2, Axeman 2N, Hollander BZK-G1

Fire/Direct Fire/Heavy Battle lance:
Zeus ZEU-9S2, Nightstar NSR-9J, Thunder Hawk TDK-7Y, Jagermech JM6-DG

Yes, I did go a little cliched in the third lance. The ZEU-9S2 is a hidden gem, while the JagerMech deserves a target roundel on its barrel-chest ;)

So ... armour. Looking for advice on what armour to deploy with this unit. Rules:
- Must be Lyran or Inner Sphere General, Clan Invasion availability on MUL (not a huge limit)
- Each platoon must be four of the same chassis, but can be pairs of different variants if it makes sense (or they'd look cool)
- Ideally the armour company should complement & work with the 'Mech company, and with the infantry/BA company that'll come along eventually
- Cool is probably more interesting than ultimate combat efficiency
- Minis that come in 2-packs are more cost-effective to me than those that come in one-packs, unless there's a compelling argument.

So, suggestions? Do I "go big or go extinct", or embrace a more graceful approach?

W.

[Natasha Kerensky]

So, suggestions? Do I "go big or go extinct", or embrace a more graceful approach?

The mech company is dominated ranged hole-punchers.  To best complement them, I'd try to add a lance of LRM fire support (Brutus LRM or Sturmfeur), a lance of close-range hole-punchers (Rommels), and a lance of fast attack SRM spam (Drillson SRM).

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

What about using Manticore (LB-X)s instead of Rommels for the close-range fighting?  Gives you better crit-seeking capability.

[MightyBolamite]

Is this the thread for the Lyran lovers? Because this seems to be the most prominent one in two pages so...
I have question! What titles could a planetary governor hold in the 3025 era (other than governor)? It's pretty easy to find a military ranking chart but not a political one.
Thanks for any help.

[jklantern]

Is this the thread for the Lyran lovers? Because this seems to be the most prominent one in two pages so...
I have question! What titles could a planetary governor hold in the 3025 era (other than governor)? It's pretty easy to find a military ranking chart but not a political one.
Thanks for any help.

If you're looking for a noble title, Duke is a pretty solid one for planetary ruler.  Although Lyran Noble titles can be slightly squishier than the others, due to the fact that you can also be granted a noble title for being a successful businessman.

Actually, for pretty much every Great House, you can use Duke for the title of a Planetary Ruler and have it work (although Kurita TECHNICALLY uses other titles, they have been known to use the term "Duke").

[Kit deSummersville]

Depends on how important the planet is, too.

[Flieger]

Is this the thread for the Lyran lovers? Because this seems to be the most prominent one in two pages so...

It is. This thread is the successor to a thread that became to long. Steiner fans are some of the more active on this board.

I have question! What titles could a planetary governor hold in the 3025 era (other than governor)? It's pretty easy to find a military ranking chart but not a political one.
Thanks for any help.

As far as ranks of the nobility are concerned, planetary rulers are usually hold the rank of Duke but he may not be the actual administrator of the world. The Graf, technically a subordinate of the Duke, is a either an important land owner or factory owner on this world and may be appointed by the Archon to counterbalance the Duke, or to serve as liason, doing the actual governance. Another possibility to bybass the Duke is the Margrave which is a military governor over a theatre and has authority to overrule Dukes as such.

If the Duke is dead and for some reason no successor is available, the Archon can appoint a Governor acting as, well, governor until a successor is found.

Lastly, the JAG can appoint a Military Governor to an unruly world.


There are a few more oddities, like the Duke of New Kyoto being called Daimyo rather than Duke, or the title of Grand Duke which can be awarded by the Archon to certain Dukes.

[False Son]

It is. This thread is the successor to a thread that became to long. Steiner fans are some of the more active on this board.

We can go back to pontificating about Skye, if that's what is currently missing.

There are a few more oddities, like the Duke of New Kyoto being called Daimyo rather than Duke, or the title of Grand Duke which can be awarded by the Archon to certain Dukes.

Baron of Glengarry.

[Flieger]

Skye is by far the most exciting part of the Commonwealth, and due to Hesperus II alone also extremely important. That it is or was home to some of the LCAF's best combat formations which inflicted heavy damage on the Archon's enemies is only the icing on the cake.  :)

However when it comes to provinces, I am wondering about another thing recently: as of 3145 Skye is mostly gone, and the Tamar Pact is more of a memory than a real political entity. So did the Royal Guards change their recruiting policies? I mean it is not easy for the 2nd Royal Guards to get soldiers from Skye even if technically possible (and we know the 4th Royal Guards forwarded applicants from Skye to the 2nd, supporting "the Pride of Skye"), but the 3rd Royal Guards is not a viable formation if it insists on soldiers from Tamar. This was known since the Jihad, probably earlier, when they were reinforced by soldiers from the Qanatir MTM.
It would make sense for the Dark Age to end the region-based recruiting of the Royal Guards, especially with all the changes the Commonwealth's territory is going through.