Tell me about... the Stalker II

[Scotty]

Its a very poor mech. Having that kind of money on what is a very niche mech is very wasteful. Remember, you can't enter buildings with that PSR so it'll be a sitting duck in cities too.

Why on whatever planet of your choosing are you trying to enter a building in a 'Mech anyway?  That's just plain asking for the environment to kill you before the enemy does.

[YingJanshi]

How much would this 'Mech benefit from using the TO Hull Down rules (p. 21)?
Specifically going down on one knee?

[Scotty]

It would certainly make it less likely to damage itself on the way up, but doing so would slow it down even more than it is already.  More useful when fighting defensively in general, or finding a good TurretTech.  Personally, I'd rather keep moving to get that laser array of pain +1.  It's a bubble o' doom that significantly outclasses the Hunchback, and a fantastic mobile anvil.  Fantastic anvil, not the mobile part.

[JadeHellbringer]

Why on whatever planet of your choosing are you trying to enter a building in a 'Mech anyway?  That's just plain asking for the environment to kill you before the enemy does.

If you've never seen a Trebuchet fall and slide into a light building, only to come walking back out covered in assorted womens' undergarments, I just don't think you're playing the game right.

(This actually happened in a game)

But yeah, I agree, if you're walking a Mech through a building, you'd better have a really good emergency-level reason to be doing it, because otherwise you're taking a beating for no reason. They cave in, there are basements sometimes... it's best to go around, or level it first and walk over the ruins. If you have hardened armor, all the more reason to be cautious rather than stupid.

That said, I wouldn't want to use this in a city either, but we don't always get to pick our battlefields- cities tend to attract attention in warfare, and your Stalker II might have to forget all its' troubles, forget all its' cares, and go down-town. If that ends up being the case, keep it on major streets- that will give it the ability to lob LRMs down-range at least. The eight lasers allow it to act as a Hunchback-style area denial weapon- park it somewhere good, and the enemy can't go into that area without taking a kick in the teeth from those lasers. And since this thing isn't exactly fleet of foot, keep it defended against flanking attacks, particularly from infantry- some battle armor make for a great defense, and a decent tank like a Zhukov or Ontos is a good way to make an enemy stay further back as well- even if your enemy gets a decent attack off, it's looking at taking a beating in return from the Stalker AND a nasty bit of armor to join in.

...Now that I write that, I just realized... Slow, tough, eight medium lasers backed by some LRMs... and built by the ex-FWL.

Stalker II = walking Ontos. Mind is blown.

[Scotty]

Yeah, if you absolutely need to go through a building, level it with medium lasers first.  That's 40 guaranteed damage, and unless you're trying to move rapidly through a bunker complex or Castle Brian, that's enough to move fairly quickly for cities.

[SteelRaven]

Has anyone tried replacing the armor in HMP or SSW?

[Scotty]

Doing so nets you a total of 13.5 tons (with standard armor, any other leaves too few crit spaces to take advantage of the tonnage) with the same total of armor points.  Doing the immediate obvious and maxing it out leaves 10.5 tons and 10 crit spaces to play with.

That said, doing so reduces your effective protection from 432 points to 263 points, which is a whopping 39% less armor than you had before.

My first reflex to spend the ten tons is to up the XLRMs to -15s and add a ton more ammunition each to keep the duration the same while making throw weight 50% larger.  That eats up ten full tons, and the last half ton is pretty much up to you to use.  On something that the TarComp doesn't affect, because it grows by a ton if you add anything at all.

[JadeHellbringer]

Doing so nets you a total of 13.5 tons (with standard armor, any other leaves too few crit spaces to take advantage of the tonnage) with the same total of armor points.  Doing the immediate obvious and maxing it out leaves 10.5 tons and 10 crit spaces to play with.

That said, doing so reduces your effective protection from 432 points to 263 points, which is a whopping 39% less armor than you had before.

My first reflex to spend the ten tons is to up the XLRMs to -15s and add a ton more ammunition each to keep the duration the same while making throw weight 50% larger.  That eats up ten full tons, and the last half ton is pretty much up to you to use.  On something that the TarComp doesn't affect, because it grows by a ton if you add anything at all.

That actually sounds pretty good... perhaps bumping the LRMs like that, but using that half ton and the ton you used on extra ammo for an anti-missile system? Doesn't affect the computer, and keeps the Mech a little bit safer from missiles.

Actually, I'd be okay with losing the computer, for that matter, but that's just personal taste.

[Scotty]

I actually added two tons of ammunition to keep duration the same (three tons per launcher at 6 rounds per ton, rather than 2 and 9, respectively).  The TC you could potentially drop, but at that point I feel like you might as well drop a couple medium lasers instead.

I actually prefer it with hardened, for the record, because then it does something that very little else does: not die period, for any reason.

In fact, my ideal refit would be to swap the massed medium laser battery for paired Clan ER Larges (FWL woo), keep the TC, and then swap the XLRMs for a pair of MML-9s (w/A-IV) and the ammunition tonnage to get Weirdo up in here.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Since hardened armor really feels like one of the major points of this 'Mech, how much would switching back to a standard cockpit reduce survivability?

[Prince of Darkness]

Since hardened armor really feels like one of the major points of this 'Mech, how much would switching back to a standard cockpit reduce survivability?

I think it would improve it, myself.  Less chance of getting knocked over and no fears of overheating hurting your warrior.

Perhaps the Stalker II should have been more like the original Stalker, but using the freed weight from DHS and endo to go towards the Hardened armor.  Hmmm...

[Scotty]

The Stalker is one of the 'Mechs that has visually always had a torso-mounted cockpit.  If anything, I'd lose the compact gyro for AMS.  It's a ton and a half, and then all you have to do is reallocate the medium lasers to another location (arms).

[Weirdo]

If you've never seen a Trebuchet fall and slide into a light building, only to come walking back out covered in assorted womens' undergarments, I just don't think you're playing the game right.

(This actually happened in a game)

You have GOT to show me the buildings table that has lingerie on it...

That said, I wouldn't want to use this in a city either, but we don't always get to pick our battlefields- cities tend to attract attention in warfare, and your Stalker II might have to forget all its' troubles, forget all its' cares, and go down-town. If that ends up being the case, keep it on major streets- that will give it the ability to lob LRMs down-range at least. The eight lasers allow it to act as a Hunchback-style area denial weapon- park it somewhere good, and the enemy can't go into that area without taking a kick in the teeth from those lasers.

I think you're looking at the Stalker the wrong way. Sure, that laser battery is powerful, but what a Stalker II truly has is REACH. You park it in any defensible point, and it can likely cover the ENTIRE battle area with indirect fire. My ideal usage in a large urban battle would be to park the Stalker and a pair of Apollo-4Ms, with some kind of Beagle-equipped bodyguard rounding out the lance in some out-of-the-way corner of the city. From that point I've got an LRM battery that can support any part of the battle, with almost no fear of retribution. If something does come ofter my missile battery and the bodyguard sees it coming, I'll move the Stalker into the street approach to block further advance. Between that armored wall of lasers and the bodyguard, I can easily make short work of most attackers trying to silence my missiles. But until someone actually comes after me, the lasers and armor are merely the sideshow.

Stalker II = walking Ontos. Mind is blown.

Makes you wonder how well it might fare when paired with an LGR Ontos or two...

[JadeHellbringer]

You have GOT to show me the buildings table that has lingerie on it...

It was a city we had for a scenario- the players had to use their Mechs' sensors to scan buildings to find a hidden nuclear device. The buildings were 3D fold-and-glue style warehouses and such, and on the inside of each one I had written down what the scan would reveal. To scan, a Mech had to be in an adjacent hex to a building hex, and could then scan the entire building no matter how large it was. One was a fruit warehouse, another was a bakery, a couple of bars, the kind of stuff you'd expect to find in a small town really... but one small medium building was a lingerie shop, because won't that be funny for the players to find?

Imagine how amused I was, along with everyone else, when a Trebuchet (the SRM version) failed a PSR for running and turning on pavement, slid two hexes, and crashed into the side of the building. There wasn't a basement (that would have brought on a whole mess of jokes, no doubt), but since he ended up IN the building I let that count as being able to scan it. Everyone laughed, and we all agreed that the next turn the Mech came walking out of what was left of the building (bringing it down completely as he did), it would have been covered in assorted undergarments and such- bras hanging from laser barrels, etc.

In doing so, what was supposed to be a throwaway gag became a legendary moment for my old gaming group for years.

[jklantern]

It was a city we had for a scenario- the players had to use their Mechs' sensors to scan buildings to find a hidden nuclear device. The buildings were 3D fold-and-glue style warehouses and such, and on the inside of each one I had written down what the scan would reveal. To scan, a Mech had to be in an adjacent hex to a building hex, and could then scan the entire building no matter how large it was. One was a fruit warehouse, another was a bakery, a couple of bars, the kind of stuff you'd expect to find in a small town really... but one small medium building was a lingerie shop, because won't that be funny for the players to find?

Imagine how amused I was, along with everyone else, when a Trebuchet (the SRM version) failed a PSR for running and turning on pavement, slid two hexes, and crashed into the side of the building. There wasn't a basement (that would have brought on a whole mess of jokes, no doubt), but since he ended up IN the building I let that count as being able to scan it. Everyone laughed, and we all agreed that the next turn the Mech came walking out of what was left of the building (bringing it down completely as he did), it would have been covered in assorted undergarments and such- bras hanging from laser barrels, etc.

In doing so, what was supposed to be a throwaway gag became a legendary moment for my old gaming group for years.

Hellbie, has there ever been a moment in one of your games that HASN'T become the stuff of Battletech Legend?

[Weirdo]

Very nice! Reminds me of the buildings in Mechwarrior 2, that often would have random crap in them when you IDed them. O0

[Kotetsu]

Why on whatever planet of your choosing are you trying to enter a building in a 'Mech anyway?  That's just plain asking for the environment to kill you before the enemy does.

I've seen times when one of our 'Mechs decided to walk through the building because, a) it absorbed some of the incoming damage, and b) it got them out of the line of fire of the infantry on the roof. (And then there was the nutcase who decided to walk through the building to cause it to collapse around the six sticks of infantry on the top three floors...)

[Weirdo]

Yeah, I actually saw a guy save the life of his Thunder Hawk by walking into the building right next to him. The end result was that several enemies lost LOS due to adjacent building hexes(among them a Longinus squad on the roof), and the remainder had mostly cluster weapons, whose damage was greatly reduced by the building. The building was barely standing after those shots, but the Thunder Hawk got time to cool down, while a lot of enemies heated up trying to bring the building down on him.

[Liam's Ghost]

The first time my players faced the Manei Domini, it had gone very badly for me due to rotten luck (the Manei CO's Legacy got face smashed by a gauss gun the first time it stepped into sight, that sort of thing). I was down to a lone Archer in an urban environment, and the nature of the scenario precluded basements (the terrain the city was built on wasn't suited to it). As such, the Archer started running through buildings to avoid massed fire, occasionally emerging to violently murder one of his pursuers (with or without an I-Beam). The vast amount of collateral damage he inflicted was only slightly surpassed by the damage he did to his enemies. A big part of that was the ability to break contact by going through the walls and take down lone opponents who got separated trying to chase him down.

On the Stalker II, anybody wonder if maybe incorporating turrets into the design might be a decent upgrade? The low mobility and the large amount of torso mounted weapons seems a dangerous idea.

[Alexander Knight]

On buildings and basements, a Crab in one of my fights skidded 6 hexes into a building, only to find a level 5 basement.  We all commiserated with the controlling player...but nobody could resist laughing when the next turn the Crab stood up only to find a 3 level sub-basement.

[StCptMara]

Why on whatever planet of your choosing are you trying to enter a building in a 'Mech anyway?  That's just plain asking for the environment to kill you before the enemy does.

*shifty eyes* Because, sometimes, the best way to get into position is to go THROUGH a building?
Generally, you can take the damage even if you fail the roll, too.

That said: the Stalker II, I have not had the chance to use it, yet. But I forsee it being very interesting when
it ends up in the hands of a randomly rolled pilot.(My group random rolls the pilots, then random rolls the
'mechs, then puts the pilots into the 'mech we think they will do best in)

[Sabelkatten]

On buildings and basements, a Crab in one of my fights skidded 6 hexes into a building, only to find a level 5 basement.  We all commiserated with the controlling player...but nobody could resist laughing when the next turn the Crab stood up only to find a 3 level sub-basement.

48 meters of basements? :o What did you find, the local NSA HQ?!?

[Alexander Knight]

48 meters of basements? :o What did you find, the local NSA HQ?!?

Somebody obviously decided to live in a converted missile silo.   :)

[Moonsword]

48 meters of basements? :o What did you find, the local NSA HQ?!?

Well, sometimes you need space for your gaming books...

[Mastergunz]

Back to the topic at hand. As has been said, when used correctly they can be an absolute beast. I find they pair very well with the new FWL Bulwark tank as a body guard. Sure your sinking a lot of BV into the pair but anything that may threaten them is going to be taking fire while advancing in under some pretty heavy hitting guns.

Between the ELRM's and the IHG ranged damage is dangerous to say the least. If you try to close range it only gets worse as all the range brackets are covered at that point.

Best bet is to advance slow if you have to but park it when you get where you want to be. The turret on the Bulwark can protect your flank if necessary and anything that is crazy enough to close for an attempted killing shot has a heck of a lot of firepower to get through...never mind the insane amount of armor the 2 carry.

-Gunz

[JadeHellbringer]

Very nice! Reminds me of the buildings in Mechwarrior 2, that often would have random crap in them when you IDed them. O0

Good eye- that was the inspiration for the event.  O0