Author Topic: Updates to MUL  (Read 37360 times)

Von Ether

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #60 on: 19 August 2014, 09:36:25 »
Wahoo! Great work, guys.

Thank yous very much!
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Von Ether

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #61 on: 19 August 2014, 09:38:24 »
It certainly appears so for ground units. The AS7-D is no longer one of the best buys in AS and has rear firing weapons on its card  :)

I'm going to revamp my army lists...

Yeah. In making up my AS event, the AS7-D was strangely absent. We had Atlases, just not that one.
"New players, regardless of age, need to know two things about a wargame. How to blow stuff up and what faction is painted in his favorite color. All the rest can come later when they are hooked." -- A.G.
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Adrian Gideon

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #62 on: 19 August 2014, 10:14:55 »
Excellent work, great timing. Thanks so much guys!
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Klat

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #63 on: 19 August 2014, 11:34:39 »
Just be aware the battle armor cards are showing the stats for four man squads ... for now.

Are there plans to have cards for alternative squad sizes? Perhaps a card for 4 man Clan Medium Battle Armor and 5 man. I would assume inner sphere operators use 4 man squads when using clan battle armor.
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Pa Weasley

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #64 on: 19 August 2014, 11:39:09 »
Yep, as nckestrel has mentioned elsewhere, the plan is to be able to select for 4, 5, and 6 man squads and have the AS cards reflect that selection and well as the battle value.

Klat

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #65 on: 19 August 2014, 11:42:16 »
Yep, as nckestrel has mentioned elsewhere, the plan is to be able to select for 4, 5, and 6 man squads and have the AS cards reflect that selection and well as the battle value.
*happy dance*

Thank you.
Light Assault Group - An Orwellian appelation applied by the Draconis Combine to troops haphazardly equipped with whatever expendable equipment was lying around the maintenance yard, for the purpose of throwing their lives away for the greater glory of the Dragon, see also Human Bombs.

iamfanboy

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #66 on: 19 August 2014, 12:53:35 »
And I'm already neck-deep in downloading the updated cards for my units. Thank you!

So far I've bumped across one or two non-existent cards; do you want us to make a separate thread to bring them to your attention when we find them? So far it's just been the ARC-2Rb and the ARC-2R (Morgan).

But... I'm... just... EXCITED!!!


nckestrel

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #67 on: 19 August 2014, 13:30:52 »
And I'm already neck-deep in downloading the updated cards for my units. Thank you!

So far I've bumped across one or two non-existent cards; do you want us to make a separate thread to bring them to your attention when we find them? So far it's just been the ARC-2Rb and the ARC-2R (Morgan).

But... I'm... just... EXCITED!!!

No, I've already got that list.
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Von Ether

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #68 on: 19 August 2014, 14:06:46 »
But... I'm... just... EXCITED!!!

And I  just can't hide it!

And I know
I know
I know
I know
I know
I know to download!
Download!

« Last Edit: 19 August 2014, 14:58:16 by Von Ether »
"New players, regardless of age, need to know two things about a wargame. How to blow stuff up and what faction is painted in his favorite color. All the rest can come later when they are hooked." -- A.G.
"But the problem is that it seems to have been made by someone who equates complication with complexity, and that just ain't so." -- iamfanboy

Weirdo

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #69 on: 19 August 2014, 14:44:34 »
Yep, as nckestrel has mentioned elsewhere, the plan is to be able to select for 4, 5, and 6 man squads and have the AS cards reflect that selection and well as the battle value.

Is it possible for this to be done with Protomechs as well, so that we might be able to field Society Uns?
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nckestrel

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #70 on: 19 August 2014, 14:50:38 »
Is it possible for this to be done with Protomechs as well, so that we might be able to field Society Uns?

Since Alpha Strike Companion, protomechs are now single units.  The stat card is for a single ProtoMech.
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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #71 on: 19 August 2014, 14:58:20 »
Just goes to show that I really need to read that thing in detail instead of just skimming for what looked cool.

On a similar note, I just tried to look up a unit to see what 0* damage would look like. The THE-N Thorn has a long range value of 0, but a special of IF0*. Should the normal damage also be 0*, or do I need to read the conversion and rounding rules more closely?
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nckestrel

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #72 on: 19 August 2014, 15:11:06 »
Just goes to show that I really need to read that thing in detail instead of just skimming for what looked cool.

On a similar note, I just tried to look up a unit to see what 0* damage would look like. The THE-N Thorn has a long range value of 0, but a special of IF0*. Should the normal damage also be 0*, or do I need to read the conversion and rounding rules more closely?

Looks like the import dropped all the *'s in the 0*s for S, M or L..
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Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #73 on: 19 August 2014, 15:12:51 »
Oh, good. I understand that Thorns aren't the be-all-end-all of warfare like they once were, but I was hoping they'd keep some long-range punch. ;)
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iamfanboy

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #74 on: 19 August 2014, 15:19:33 »
Okay, um.

You know that I wouldn't be amfanboy if I didn't question something...

Why even have 4 suit squads, aside from fluff reasons? It would simplify things immensely if it just... disappeared.

For IS BA, settling into a 5-suit standard makes all kinds of sense in AS; it moves a lot of the BA from A/S 1/2 to A/S 2/2 (something they needed to make them usable!) but having any of them stay at 4 doesn't seem to do anything - it doesn't even seem to lower the damage of any units that I've done the math for, and thus doesn't lower its PV.

And as far as 6-man squads go... it can make a difference (the Tengu has A/S 3/2), so a simplification might be to only have a 5/6 squad difference for BA that's deployed by multiple factions, like the Purifier?

(as an aside, it never made sense to me for fluff reasons either!)

Anyway... thanks for all your hard work, and back I go to downloading the cards for my units... lalala...

Alexander Knight

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #75 on: 19 August 2014, 15:27:19 »
How many 5-man squads can fit into a unit with IT4?

Trick question.  ;)

nckestrel

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #76 on: 19 August 2014, 15:55:51 »
Okay, um.

You know that I wouldn't be amfanboy if I didn't question something...

Why even have 4 suit squads, aside from fluff reasons? It would simplify things immensely if it just... disappeared.

For IS BA, settling into a 5-suit standard makes all kinds of sense in AS; it moves a lot of the BA from A/S 1/2 to A/S 2/2 (something they needed to make them usable!) but having any of them stay at 4 doesn't seem to do anything - it doesn't even seem to lower the damage of any units that I've done the math for, and thus doesn't lower its PV.
We're talking about battle armor.  Somebody yell when we're talking about something important, like 'Mechs :).

(note, sarcasm).
1) Fluff
2) armor values that change
3) PVs that change if armor values change
4) transport costs

If you don't care about any of those, you are welcome to pick whichever battle armor squad size you want. 
 
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dwinter

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #77 on: 19 August 2014, 17:17:40 »
Well, I`ve downloaded my army lists mechs and vehicles.  I think I`ll take a break now and pick up the aerospace later in the week and the battlearmour when its fixed.

Cheers guys, now I just have the fun of recalculating all of my TO&E`s.  Thank god for Excel.
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Papabees

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #78 on: 19 August 2014, 17:22:36 »
Much thanks to you all!!

NeonKnight

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #79 on: 19 August 2014, 17:43:35 »
Yup. Only thing really stopping me from painting rest of my minis was waiting for MUL to be updated so I can build my battalions and lances properly.
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Dropkick

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #80 on: 19 August 2014, 19:52:36 »
The roles are just suggested right?  Not set in stone per say? 

Papabees

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #81 on: 19 August 2014, 20:23:36 »
Not sure if this is supposed to happen or not but if i change the pilot skill the point value does not change. Just an FYI.

Alexander Knight

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #82 on: 19 August 2014, 21:05:17 »
The roles are just suggested right?  Not set in stone per say?

Correct

Adrian Gideon

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #83 on: 19 August 2014, 22:02:33 »
The roles are just suggested right?  Not set in stone per say?
If you use roles for the optional force-building rules, then yes, they are set in stone as-is. Otherwise they're worthless.

If you need to fulfill "X" role in order to build a lance, and you can change roles to whatever you wish, then the requirement is moot and there isn't anything to fulfill.

As of right now, there is no other mechanic that uses roles, so it shouldn't interfere with any kind of play thus far, it's the introduction of something new for the sake of army building.
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Dropkick

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #84 on: 19 August 2014, 23:10:04 »
So then the unit card on the MUL takes precedence over the AS Companion book?

added:
Does "none" mean that the unit doesn't have a role or that one hasn't been assigned to it yet?
« Last Edit: 19 August 2014, 23:26:49 by Dropkick »

cavingjan

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #85 on: 20 August 2014, 05:17:47 »
Hasn't been assigned one yet.

nckestrel

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #86 on: 20 August 2014, 07:41:28 »
The roles are just suggested right?  Not set in stone per say?

I feel like we are missing some concern you have here.  Why are you asking?

No, we have no ninjas to send to your house if you insist on using the Atlas AS7-D as a Sniper instead of a Juggernaut.  We wouldn't send them even if we had them.

Can you put four Atlas AS7-D in a Fire Lance and say you are following the Alpha Strike Companion Force Building rules?  No.  The AS7-D is a Juggernaut and you need at least 3 of the 4 members in the Lance to be Snipers and/or Missile Boats.  You can have one Atlas AS7-D in a Fire Lance, you have one freebie (only 3 of the 4 have to be Snipers and/or Missile Boats, the last one has no restrictions at all).

Are you required to use Alpha Strike Force Building rules?  It's your game, it's up to you.  Unless it's somebody else's game, then it's up to them.  Again, no ninjas.

So then the unit card on the MUL takes precedence over the AS Companion book?

Not sure what your question is here. The AS Companion does not assign unit roles to individual units.   Even p134 "unit role classification" says "This classification can be extremely subjective," and "Keep in mind that, ultimately, the unit’s stats do not always
define its role, so much as how the unit is intended to be used. The role definitions provided in this chapter are merely a guide for players working from raw stats..".
The stats for the RFL-3N do not say Sniper.  The fluff of the BattleTech universe has always described it as a Fire Support 'mech.  So regardless of any stats, rules, number crunching, we assigned it to Sniper (it's definitely not a Missile Boat).  Would another twin AC-5, twin large laser 'mech also be assigned to Sniper?  (It's armor certainly helps "doom" it to Sniper.)  That's what we mean by the role be "extremely subjective".  The p134 section is to help guide a player for where there is no history/MUL assignment already done.  But even those are not "rules", they are guides.  There is no wrong answer, except you can only assign one.  :)
 
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Dropkick

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #87 on: 20 August 2014, 08:27:44 »
PM sent.

nckestrel

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #88 on: 20 August 2014, 09:05:54 »
If you don't like having rules for force buildling, then don't use them. The Alpha Strike Companion is, excepted where noted otherwise, a book of options.
There are plenty of players that would like force building rules, where there are some limits on what a player may field beyond just tonnage or Cbills or Battle Value.  Some may like playing around with buildling a force, similar to those that enjoy unit construction.  Some may be new and overwhelmed by the sheer number of choices and want a guide. Some want meaning to the terms often used for describing BattleTech forces. Some are more used to an "army book" when playing.  Or just, I don't know.  People have all sorts of reasons.
If you are not looking for any of that, you've been playing just fine and feel free to continue on.  People have been playing BattleTech for 30+ years without force building rules. 

"But now Player X is going to make me play with Y in my army because you wrote these rules."  Apparently Player X has either 1) been playing by your rules of force building (or lack thereof) for some time now or 2) refused to play BattleTech because of the lack of these rules.  Perhaps some sort of alternating systems (one session using force building rules, next session without) or hybridization (player A doesnt' have to use force building rules but gets a 5% PV increase for not getting the special abilities) or house ruling (you can have that lance of ZEU-10WBs as a Fire Lance).  I don't think demanding that Player X play the way you want to play while ignoring how Player X wants to play is the answer.
"I like the force building rules, I just don't like what you labeled Mech W as." The Lance types generally allow a degree of flexbility.  The Fire Lance allows one 'mech with no requirements at all. The Battle Lance and Striker Lance have variations to allow different weight classes.  Support Lances have no requirements, and can "mimic" any other Lance Type (that is in your force).   But having meaningful choices means that those choices must have some sort of consequence. Saying any 'mech can go in any Lance is no longer a meaningful choice.  BTW, feel free to start a role assignment thread.  We do pay attention to player feedback.  Sometimes there are concerns other than just player feedback (I'd rather not errata an in-print card unless something is really wrong.  We may have plans that we can't announce yet that lead us to a different answer, etc.  But the MUL team had to go through a ton of units very quickly.  And as stated, the answers are extremely subjective.  I'm sure I forgot something important about 'mech X that a player that loves that 'mech might remind me of.  If there's a thread that appears to show a player consensus of something we missed, and I haven't seen it already, I'm sure somebody will point it out to me :).  (Don't put it in the one MUL Errata thread, you'd want room to discuss and I don't want everything else getting lost in a large discussion thread.)

Anyway, sorry for the rambling.  My apologies if we labeled somebody's favorite 'mech as an Ambusher or something. 
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

Dropkick

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Re: Updates to MUL
« Reply #89 on: 20 August 2014, 10:33:00 »
okay thanks