Author Topic: Infantry  (Read 5216 times)

Falcon108

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Infantry
« on: 18 January 2020, 17:37:55 »
How do you all deal with playing against infantry?

Valkerie

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #1 on: 18 January 2020, 19:22:44 »
How do you mean?  Are you talking strategy or just combat?

They take damage like any other unit.  While they can still pull off shenanigans (especially battle armor), I find them a bit easier to deal with in Alpha Strike than in Classic Battletech.
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Falcon108

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #2 on: 18 January 2020, 19:45:06 »
I usually make a standard lance.  4 units at 200pts.  My opponent was playing 4 heat units +2 battlearmors with heat, for a total of 6 units for 200pts.  I was stomped 2 games easy. So I can try and focus on a 18 PV battlearmor wasting my 50 PV mechs turn, or focus on the omnimech carrying it, thus leaving me open to little heat producing battlearmors.  Need some strategy.
« Last Edit: 18 January 2020, 19:47:04 by Falcon108 »

Cache

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #3 on: 18 January 2020, 20:40:26 »
Pick them off at range, or use artillery. Arty works wonders on low-armor units.

nckestrel

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #4 on: 18 January 2020, 20:54:08 »
Heat is usually limited in range.

Water will vent 1 heat for you for free every turn.
Heat does not affect jumping movement, or physical attacks.
Screen your longer range 'mechs with your own infantry.
Somebody has already mentioned it, but artillery..

Play on an ice planet.

And in case yall have missed it, heat from the heat special ability is limited to 2 to each unit per turn.  Doesn't matter how many units attack and apply heat, a single unit can only be given 2 heat per turn from Heat attacks.   Six units with Heat can attack a single 'Mech, and the 'Mech gets capped at receiving 2 Heat.
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wolfspider

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #5 on: 12 February 2020, 22:31:22 »
Can infantry SRM units carry infernos?
I may have a low amount of posts but I have a PHD in Battletech and mechs older then most people on this board!

nckestrel

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #6 on: 12 February 2020, 22:54:13 »
Can infantry SRM units carry infernos?

Conventional infantry cannot get the SRM special, so they can’t use infernos.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #7 on: 14 February 2020, 08:40:19 »
Conventional infantry cannot get the SRM special, so they can’t use infernos.

Just curious, is there a reason?

I also notice the LRM Infantry do not get the LRM Special abilitiy as well.
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nckestrel

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #8 on: 14 February 2020, 09:48:05 »
Because infantry can't fire smoke rounds, frag missiles, etc, they don't get the special abilities that allow them to use alternate munitions. 
We never added an exception to allow them to fire infernos.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #9 on: 14 February 2020, 09:56:42 »
Because infantry can't fire smoke rounds, frag missiles, etc, they don't get the special abilities that allow them to use alternate munitions. 
We never added an exception to allow them to fire infernos.

Ah, thanx for the answer.

If one wanted to build said infantry (inferno firing SRM infantry), does the old Construction rules from AS Companion still apply?
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nckestrel

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #10 on: 14 February 2020, 10:06:13 »
Ah, thanx for the answer.

If one wanted to build said infantry (inferno firing SRM infantry), does the old Construction rules from AS Companion still apply?

The AS Companion is still the only conversion rules.   
But you don't really need conversion/construction rules. A 30 trooper SRM platoon does a maximum of 15 damage.  But you have to check cluster hit table, 7 roll, to find it's AS conversion value.  15 column, 7 roll, is only 9 damage.  You need 10 to qualify for a weapon special ability like SRM.  No conventional infantry with SRM can qualify.  (The AS Companion actually words it slightly differently, saying a 30 troop platoon should use a troop factor of 18.  That still gives 9 damage).
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NeonKnight

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #11 on: 14 February 2020, 10:55:12 »
The AS Companion is still the only conversion rules.   
But you don't really need conversion/construction rules. A 30 trooper SRM platoon does a maximum of 15 damage.  But you have to check cluster hit table, 7 roll, to find it's AS conversion value.  15 column, 7 roll, is only 9 damage.  You need 10 to qualify for a weapon special ability like SRM.  No conventional infantry with SRM can qualify.  (The AS Companion actually words it slightly differently, saying a 30 troop platoon should use a troop factor of 18.  That still gives 9 damage).

Ah, OK, I understand the reasoning for the SRM special ability, but for a troop that one does not want to give the special ability of SRM to, but simply (say for a one-of scenario) to grant a troop of infantry the Infernos it is possible then to use the AS Companion rules to build the one-of unit.
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Re: Infantry
« Reply #12 on: 14 February 2020, 11:22:39 »
The LRM restriction makes sense. Even in TW-scale, infantry are banned from using any alternate LRM munitions.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #13 on: 14 February 2020, 11:27:57 »
The LRM restriction makes sense. Even in TW-scale, infantry are banned from using any alternate LRM munitions.

True, but I wonder why LRM Infantry cannot do IF?

Must double Check TW Rules and see if they can do so under those rules.
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nckestrel

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #14 on: 14 February 2020, 11:29:27 »
True, but I wonder why LRM Infantry cannot do IF?

Must double Check TW Rules and see if they can do so under those rules.

LRM infantry only have like 8 range?  They are really quite different things.
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nckestrel

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #15 on: 14 February 2020, 11:34:56 »
Ah, OK, I understand the reasoning for the SRM special ability, but for a troop that one does not want to give the special ability of SRM to, but simply (say for a one-of scenario) to grant a troop of infantry the Infernos it is possible then to use the AS Companion rules to build the one-of unit.

No.  Even if you ignore the restriction on infantry having SRM, you'd end up with no infantry getting SRM because they're are too weak.  The largest possible infantry platoon is incapable of doing enough damage to qualify for SRM.  It wouldn't even get SRM1/1.
You'd have to ignore the conversion rules for SRM (not just the infantry restriction) in order to give conventional infantry the SRM special ability.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #16 on: 14 February 2020, 11:36:10 »
LRM infantry only have like 8 range?  They are really quite different things.

yeah, that was what I remembering for LRM infantry...makes the LRM more of regular SRM really.
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Re: Infantry
« Reply #17 on: 14 February 2020, 11:36:17 »
They can IDF, but as has been said, they have a MUCH shorter range than true LRMs. Not the same kind of missile at all.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #18 on: 14 February 2020, 11:40:00 »
No.  Even if you ignore the restriction on infantry having SRM, you'd end up with no infantry getting SRM because they're are too weak.  The largest possible infantry platoon is incapable of doing enough damage to qualify for SRM.  It wouldn't even get SRM1/1.
You'd have to ignore the conversion rules for SRM (not just the infantry restriction) in order to give conventional infantry the SRM special ability.

Not looking to actually give them the SRM Ability. Just looking to give them the equivalent of the FLAMER INFANTRY:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1143/foot-platoon-flamer

but to a range Medium without the SRM Special Ability:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1148/foot-platoon-srm
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NeonKnight

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #19 on: 14 February 2020, 11:41:21 »
They can IDF, but as has been said, they have a MUCH shorter range than true LRMs. Not the same kind of missile at all.

Not in AS they can't ;)

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1145/foot-platoon-lrm
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nckestrel

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #20 on: 14 February 2020, 11:48:20 »
Not looking to actually give them the SRM Ability. Just looking to give them the equivalent of the FLAMER INFANTRY:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1143/foot-platoon-flamer

but to a range Medium without the SRM Special Ability:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1148/foot-platoon-srm

Same answer.  No, you can't do that with the AS Companion.
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nckestrel

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #21 on: 14 February 2020, 11:49:23 »
True, but I wonder why LRM Infantry cannot do IF?

Must double Check TW Rules and see if they can do so under those rules.

They can IDF, but as has been said, they have a MUCH shorter range than true LRMs. Not the same kind of missile at all.
He wasn't answering for AS.

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #22 on: 14 February 2020, 11:53:30 »
True, I was referring to Total War.
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Thunder

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #23 on: 15 February 2020, 05:59:04 »
For TW,  Where does it say LRM infantry can Indirect fire?  Last time I went looking for that rule all I found was mortar infantry being able to use IF.

NeonKnight

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #24 on: 15 February 2020, 10:38:37 »
For TW,  Where does it say LRM infantry can Indirect fire?  Last time I went looking for that rule all I found was mortar infantry being able to use IF.

Closest I can find is Page 111 (newest Printing):

Quote
LRM Indirect Fire
Units armed with LRM-type weapons may fire those missiles indirectly.

Therefore it falls down to simple If/Then Logic.

Does LRM Infantry carry LRM-type Weapon?  YES (page 213 shows the basic types of Infantry)
Therefore LRM Infantry can do IF attacks as per Indirect Fire Rules.

But, that is for TW - Would be interesting to read why they cannot do so for AS, or was this an oversight? I.E. - LRM Infantry AS (from MUL):

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1145/foot-platoon-lrm

Plenty of other units in the Game with IF special ability but lack the LRM ability:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1267/grasshopper-ghr-5h

Further checking of the rules on Page 78 of the AS ComEd, seems to infer IF and LRM does not both need to present, only that if a unit has IF# and LRM#/#/# it can IF with Special Munitions:

Quote
Units with the IF# and LRM #/#/# specials may make use of all
alternate munitions (see p. 143) and Special Pilot Abilities (see pp.
92-101) available to the LRM#/#/# special when making indirect fire
attacks, but are limited to using the LRM special ability’s long range
value if it is lower than the IF special ability value.
« Last Edit: 15 February 2020, 10:43:48 by NeonKnight »
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nckestrel

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #25 on: 15 February 2020, 11:39:03 »
AS didn’t make a separate rule for infantry to be able to IF, but only 16”. But I did not want to allow infantry to IF out to 42” like other IF units. So I choose to leave them unable to indirect fire over those two options (a specific rule for infantry and IF, or allow infantry to IF out to 42”).
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NeonKnight

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #26 on: 15 February 2020, 12:25:33 »
AS didn’t make a separate rule for infantry to be able to IF, but only 16”. But I did not want to allow infantry to IF out to 42” like other IF units. So I choose to leave them unable to indirect fire over those two options (a specific rule for infantry and IF, or allow infantry to IF out to 42”).

But, there is nothing under the rules for IF stating it can make an attack to any specific range (unless there has been errata to say otherwise), simply YES it can make an attack, or NO it cannot.

Further, the Rules on PAGE 41, the only mention of 42" is for the spotter, not the attacker.:

Quote
Indirect Fire: If a unit has the Indirect Fire (IF) special ability, it
may still attack targets within its range (and firing arc) even without
a direct LOS. To use indirect fire, there must be a unit friendly to the
attacker that has a valid LOS and is within 42” of the target (if using
advanced environmental conditions, see the Visual Spotting Range
Table, p. 157). This friendly unit is the spotter
.


Indirect fire attacks use the range and movement modifier of
the attacking unit, the movement modifiers of the target, and terrain
and movement modifiers based on the spotter’s LOS. An additional
+1 Target Number modifier applies to the attack itself. Another +1
applies if the spotter makes an attack of its own in the same turn.

Units with the IF# and LRM#/#/# specials may use all alternate
munitions, Special Pilot Abilities available to the LRM#/#/# special
when making indirect fire attacks, but are limited to using the LRM
special ability’s long range value if it is lower than the IF special
ability value. (For details on Special Pilot Abilities, see p. 92).

A unit used as a spotter for an indirect fire attack may be used
to spot for more than one IF attack in a turn, but cannot choose
more than one target to spot in that same turn. Note that aerospace
units can spot for indirect fire while they are in the Central Zone,
provided they have the Recon (RCN) special ability.

The way the highlighted rule reads, the spotter must have LoS and be within 42", not the attack. The rest of the rules makes no mention of the actual range of IF.

In fact, going based on the History of HEAT attacks, IF could simply be changed from:

IF# to IF#/#/#

Alternately, make a note under the IF Special ability that IF can only deal damage as the highest Range Bracket that can deal damage.

For example, the Grasshoper 5H has an IF of IF0*, and subsequently also has a Long Range Damage value of 0*.

A quick perusal of units with IF has yet to reveal to me any unit that does 0 damage at Long Range that also has an IF ability.
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nckestrel

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #27 on: 15 February 2020, 18:01:26 »
This seems to have moved from "why did you do X" to "you should do Y".  We're not making changes to AS right now. You're welcome to discuss that, and when it comes time to make changes I'll try to remember this, but I'm going to bow out now. 
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NeonKnight

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #28 on: 15 February 2020, 19:30:59 »
This seems to have moved from "why did you do X" to "you should do Y".  We're not making changes to AS right now. You're welcome to discuss that, and when it comes time to make changes I'll try to remember this, but I'm going to bow out now.

Sorry, the "You could..." is not meant to imply that it must be done this moment, but as one of the key authors, your input as the the thoughts & processes behind the scene is valuable.
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Fear Factory

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Re: Infantry
« Reply #29 on: 16 February 2020, 16:17:07 »
Removed because I made an unforgivable no no.
« Last Edit: 17 February 2020, 23:58:03 by Fear Factory »
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