Mechanized vs Motorized Infantry

[Fear Factory]

Am I missing something here?

Comparing rifle motorized and mechanized infantry, how do mechanized units have only one armor? You're talking APC's vs personal vehicles. There isn't really an advantage. In standard BattleTech, Mechanized infantry is supposed to be resistant to attacks from weapons that normally demolish infantry, and even resistant against attacks from infantry. Why is it seemingly the opposite in Alpha Strike?

[Alexander Knight]

Because mechanized units take increased damage from anti-'mech/vehicle weapons, and have a lower troop count.

[Fear Factory]

Because mechanized units take increased damage from anti-'mech/vehicle weapons, and have a lower troop count.

It's double the damage INFANTRY suffer from those weapons. So a Gauss Rifle causes 4 damage. They also resist damage from burst-fire and from infantry attacks.

I'm not seeing how this "increased damage" should result in them getting tanked in the conversion process as if they take 30 damage from a gauss rifle.

[Fear Factory]

Just as an example. If you have a Hollander vs a Wheeled Mechanized Platoon (Rifle). They're not going to win, but Alpha Strike has it where that Gauss is causing 30 damage to the unit. In reality, it's 8, so they should be able to survive at least a turn of weapons fire from it. If it was conversion with a damage divisor of 1, it would reflect this, giving them an armor value of 2 (24/15=1.6 round up to 2).

If you compare this conversion to a Motorized Platoon, they're still weaker, but they have the advantage of having a higher movement rating.

[Alexander Knight]

Armor conversion rules:

Divide 15 by the armor divisor.  Mechanized infantry only get 1/2 their armor divisor (because mech weapons do double damage).

Divide troops in platoon by the result, round normally.

So, basic infantry:  28 / 15 = 1.8 something, rounds to 2
Basic mech infantry:  24 / 30 = less than one, rounds to 1

[Fear Factory]

Armor conversion rules:

Divide 15 by the armor divisor.  Mechanized infantry only get 1/2 their armor divisor (because mech weapons do double damage).

Divide troops in platoon by the result, round normally.

So, basic infantry:  28 / 15 = 1.8 something, rounds to 2
Basic mech infantry:  24 / 30 = less than one, rounds to 1

I know that. I did the exact same math. What I'm saying is giving mechanized 1/2 their armor divisor makes no sense. Mech weapons do double infantry damage. A gauss does 15 damage, which is 2 damage to infantry (15/10=1.5 round up), which would be 4 damage against Mechanized infantry (my math was wrong for that up top).

So, .5 as the divisor makes no sense.

This is on the TW chart (in regards to "number of troopers hit"):

+This equals the number of conventional infantry troopers hit and eliminated, regardless of armor protection. Attacks by non-infantry weapons against mechanized infantry double the number of troopers eliminated; round all fractions up

This is how it is explained in Errata 6.0:

Successful non-conventional infantry attacks against conventional mechanized infantry double the number of troopers eliminated unless they are made with burst-fire weapons.

Against successful conventional infantry and burst-fire weapon attacks, double the damage each mechanized infantry trooper can sustain before being eliminated. If such a trooper is not eliminated, that unit’s record sheet always retains at least one box of armor (which requires 2 points of infantry damage to eliminate) until the trooper is crippled or killed.

So they are effectively still taking reduced damage, following the "non-conventional infantry attacks against conventional infantry" rules. They just double that, not the actual weapon damage for firing at anything else (you're not doubling the weapon damage, your doubling the number of troops lost after following the table [Gauss does 2 against infantry, so 4 against mechanized units).

As it stands, Alpha Strike does not account for this at all. If anything, it's WAY off with the damage divisor. If anything, it should be 1 or higher. If the divisor was 1.25 or 1.5, it would be more in line. So the basic mechanized infantry platoon would have 2 or 3 armor. Not even game breaking.

[Alexander Knight]

uh

0.5 for the divisor *is* twice 1.  4 / 1 = 4.  4 / 0.5 = 8, which is twice what 4 is.

[Fear Factory]

uh

0.5 for the divisor *is* twice 1.  4 / 1 = 4.  4 / 0.5 = 8, which is twice what 4 is.

I know that...

For some reason, I was thinking in conversion it was saying that they take full weapon attack damage instead of the reduction on the charts. So I'm wrong. EDIT: Sorry about that, man. I was deep in converting units and got lost in all the numbers.

However, does Alpha Strike actually consider that mechanized infantry take less damage from infantry and burst-fire weapons?

[Alexander Knight]

No, because it doesn't make standard infantry take more.  MG does 0.2 damage to an infantry platoon and PPC does 1.0

[Fear Factory]

I think something like this is much more fair (.75 as the divisor):

Infantry:  28 / 15 = 1.8, rounds to 2
Mech. Infantry:  24 / 20 (15/.75)  = 1.2, rounds to 2

If you're considering this at Mech scale, as in weapons causing full damage (like a gauss doing 15 points), I can see .5 as the divisor. The thing is, yes they take double damage for mech vs infantry attacks, but the mech-scale damage is still greatly reduced (they're taking 4 damage from a Gauss hit, not 30). If the divisor is .75, it accounts for the mech-scale reduction in damage along with the reduction from burst-fire weapons.

[Alexander Knight]

Infantry do not benefit from a damage reduction vs 'mech scale weapons in Alpha Strike.  An Awesome will vaporize an infantry platoon in one shot in Alpha Strike.

[Fear Factory]

Infantry do not benefit from a damage reduction vs 'mech scale weapons in Alpha Strike.  An Awesome will vaporize an infantry platoon in one shot in Alpha Strike.

Which still happens if the factor is .75.

[Alexander Knight]

Which still happens if the factor is .75.

No.  it vaporizes a foot infantry platoon.  If that Awesome shot the foot platoon in TW play it would kill, what, 3 men?  Mechanized platoons take more damage from anti-'mech weapons than standard platoons.  Standard platoons receive no damage reduction from anti-'mech weapons in AS play.

[Fear Factory]

No.  it vaporizes a foot infantry platoon.  If that Awesome shot the foot platoon in TW play it would kill, what, 3 men?  Mechanized platoons take more damage from anti-'mech weapons than standard platoons.  Standard platoons receive no damage reduction from anti-'mech weapons in AS play.

Damage / 10 for standard infantry, (Damage / 10) * 2 for mechanized.

3 damage to foot platoons.
6 damage to mechanized.

Foot platoons with burst-fire or standard attack do 1/2 damage against Mechanized units.

It's way too abstract. Standard foot infantry and standard mechanized infantry would still be one-shot in Alpha Strike if the factor was .75 for mechanized units. The only difference is the Mechanized unit would take 3 damage, instead of 2. This means that both standard and mechanized platoons would be vaporized by the awesome, but now the mechanized platoon can actually take hits against standard infantry.

It is what it is at this point. It just makes no sense that a group of infantry in APC's are substantially weaker than foot infantry. It's the opposite in TW.

[Alexander Knight]

Give them heavy body armor.  It's not like they're going to lose anything by having Encumbering armor and it ups their damage divisor.

[Fear Factory]

Give them heavy body armor.  It's not like they're going to lose anything by having Encumbering armor and it ups their damage divisor.

Yeah, I'll just do that.

What book would have the best info on that? Tacops?