Confused with Artillery (TO vs BMM)

[plutonick]

Really confused with artillery rules..

Tactical Operations says it's a hit if you roll equal or higher than [crew skill]+7
BattleMech Manual says it's a hit if you roll 8 or hight.

Why is there a difference?

[victor_shaw]

I asked a similar question about why quirks were different between SO and BMM.
The answer was that all rules in the BMM are the most resent rules and take precedent over previous editions.

"The Battlemech Manual supercedes older versions of quirks in all cases.

There's a quirks update document in the errata forums that brings people without that book up to speed." Xotl

[Robroy]

I asked a similar question about why quirks were different between SO and BMM.
The answer was that all rules in the BMM are the most resent rules and take precedent over previous editions.

"The Battlemech Manual supercedes older versions of quirks in all cases.

There's a quirks update document in the errata forums that brings people without that book up to speed." Xotl

I can not find the quirks list. Probably looking in the wrong place. Can you link it please?

[dgorsman]

Really confused with artillery rules..

Tactical Operations says it's a hit if you roll equal or higher than [crew skill]+7
BattleMech Manual says it's a hit if you roll 8 or hight.

Why is there a difference?

How detailed are the BMM rules?

[plutonick]

Pretty detailed for my needs. A couple of things are streamlined compared to TO (no mention of off map placement), only front or rear hit for same hex strike, there is no Rolling Maps section, and no direct fire for artillery, no airborne targeting, no bore sighting etc. But it's still pretty detailed.

[victor_shaw]

How detailed are the BMM rules?

It is basically the TW rule minus anything not having to do with Battlemechs (Aerospace, tanks, infantry, etc.)

I can not find the quirks list. Probably looking in the wrong place. Can you link it please?

Pg. 82-95 it also includes a list of quirks for all mechs before they started printing them in TROs.

[Sartris]

BMM artillery support is abstracted. It’s basically like what you get in MechCommander - click to boom. There are no actual units involved

TO artillery requires you to use units equipped with the appropriate guns

Battlefield support in BMM is for convenience. TO is for depth

[Ursus Maior]

This.

And BMM rules do not supersede rules found in TW or TO (cf. p. 5 of BMM "35 Year Edition"). Any exceptions to that are spcifically mentioned.

[victor_shaw]

This.

And BMM rules do not superseed rules found in TW or TO (cf. p. 5 of BMM "35 Year Edition"). Any exceptions to that are spcifically mentioned.

Just to be clear this quote is no where to be found on pg. 5 of BMM.

[nckestrel]

Just to be clear this quote is no where to be found on pg. 5 of BMM.

He didn't quote anything.
p5 say "alternate presentation", which is not "supersede".  There is one ruleset, it's presented in two alternate ways, Total Warfare and BattleMech Manual.

[plutonick]

If it's the same ruleset, then my original question still stands.

Tactical Operations says it's a hit if you roll equal or higher than [crew skill]+7
BattleMech Manual says it's a hit if you roll 8 or hight.

Why are there two different to-hit-calculation?  Only explanation I can come up with is that BMM considers crew artillery (gunnery?) skill, to be 1?

[nckestrel]

TW: You have an artillery unit with armor, movement, piloting/gunnery skill, etc.
BMM: You have no artillery unit, you just have a single artillery strike that you pay for.  It has pre-defined target numbers to simplify the gameplay.  Just roll the attack and be done with it.

Do you want artillery vehicles that can fire multiple times and be shot at?  Use TW.
Do you just want some artillery fire without bothering with actual artillery units? Use BMM.

They're not doing the same thing, so one doesn't replace the other. 

[plutonick]

This answers covers my question. Thanks you!

[Colt Ward]

Artillery is also not in TW, its TacOps . . . one of the few disagreeable changes from BMR.

But yeah, TacOps is for more complicated artillery operations- for instance it has direct fire rules as well.

Not having BMM, does it offer guided and alternate rounds or is it just for HE?

[mbear]

Artillery is also not in TW, its TacOps . . . one of the few disagreeable changes from BMR.

But yeah, TacOps is for more complicated artillery operations- for instance it has direct fire rules as well.

Not having BMM, does it offer guided and alternate rounds or is it just for HE?

page 77-79 discusses unguided (HE), Copperhead, and smoke/illumination rounds.

[Colt Ward]

Ah, I was just wondering since it was simplified/more abstracted it included options.

[nckestrel]

Artillery is also not in TW, its TacOps . . .

Ha!  You are correct!  I’m too used to debating differences between Alpha Strike and BattleTech Total Warfare and using TW to refer to everything “classic” BattleTech.  Thanks for fixing that.

[Daryk]

Re: the rolling map boards issue: If BMM is silent, then the previous TW/TO rules apply, right?  ???

[nckestrel]

Re: the rolling map boards issue: If BMM is silent, then the previous TW/TO rules apply, right?  ???

Yes, the BattleMech Manual doesn't mean tanks, infantry, aerospace don't exist any more.  It just wasnt' included in the BMM.  No more than artillery doesn't exist, warships, etc. Same with rolling map boards or any other rule.  The universe is not limited to the BMM. 

[Daryk]

Cool, thanks!