ASFs and Satellites

[Weirdo]

I'm stealing that!

Go right ahead! :D

[idea weenie]

One fun idea for manned penal satellites is tossing in a Steerage Quarter and a ton of Supply (food/O2 recyclers, etc) for a single person.  You give them a list of maintenance instructions so they stay alive, and leave them there.

That manned satellite now has 200 days of endurance.  Send up a shuttle twice a year to provide the satellite with resupply and see if the lone person in the punishment satellite has cracked from isolation yet.

Even better, make sure there is 2 or more tons of cargo capacity.  That tells the prisoner that things could get much worse (i.e. 400 days of Supplies and they wait a year between seeing another person)

A little constellation of prison pods, where the person on board has to perform maintenance every day to stay alive, hoping they make it to the end of the year with their sanity intact.

Once the isolation sentence is over, you put them in the indoctrination courses, so the only people for the prisoner to interact with are loyal to the state.  If they want to talk to anyone, they have to pretend to be loyal and eventually crowd conditioning makes them truly loyal.

This is only for those that might have useful skills worth putting in the 1-2 tons of Supply for them.

[RifleMech]

It can do that later, after it moved out of the firing arc of the NL.

The Satellite could have weapons in multiple arcs.

If it ain't dead and can still maneuver, it can reenter.

ECM in space doesn't work that way. It's a probe or nothing.

Yes but damage does make re-entry more difficult.

Not seeing that it doesn't but if true then the satellite's ECM is tuned to ECCM and the com equipment keeps on transmitting.

One fun idea for manned penal satellites is tossing in a Steerage Quarter and a ton of Supply (food/O2 recyclers, etc) for a single person.  You give them a list of maintenance instructions so they stay alive, and leave them there.

That manned satellite now has 200 days of endurance.  Send up a shuttle twice a year to provide the satellite with resupply and see if the lone person in the punishment satellite has cracked from isolation yet.

Even better, make sure there is 2 or more tons of cargo capacity.  That tells the prisoner that things could get much worse (i.e. 400 days of Supplies and they wait a year between seeing another person)

A little constellation of prison pods, where the person on board has to perform maintenance every day to stay alive, hoping they make it to the end of the year with their sanity intact.

Once the isolation sentence is over, you put them in the indoctrination courses, so the only people for the prisoner to interact with are loyal to the state.  If they want to talk to anyone, they have to pretend to be loyal and eventually crowd conditioning makes them truly loyal.

This is only for those that might have useful skills worth putting in the 1-2 tons of Supply for them.

 :) :thumbsup:

[Weirdo]

The Satellite could have weapons in multiple arcs.

Then it's not a BattleSat. You were talking about ASF vs BattleSat.

Yes but damage does make re-entry more difficult.

Thrust-related crits, control-related crits, bomb crits, and door crits. Nothing else. Armor and SI damage has zero effect on the reentry roll.

Not seeing that it doesn't but if true then the satellite's ECM is tuned to ECCM and the com equipment keeps on transmitting.

Rules for ECM in space are in StratOps, page 110. Comm gear has no effect ever. Units larger than fighters get their ECM for free, and putting an actual ECM suite on them does exactly nothing. They also get ECCM for free. Neither ECM or ECCM functions in the way it does on the ground.

[Maingunnery]

What about a Large satellite with a single ASF bay, and adding some asteroid debris as camouflage?

[Daryk]

Still not a BattleSat, but that would probably have the best odds against another ASF...

[Paul]

The Satellite could have weapons in multiple arcs.

Time to stop calling it a satellite, and start calling it a space station.

Yes but damage does make re-entry more difficult.

Not seeing that it doesn't but if true then the satellite's ECM is tuned to ECCM and the com equipment keeps on transmitting.

You argue pretty vehemently in favor of your position, while you so clearly haven't consulted the rules that govern this.
This isn't about what you wish was true. We're telling you what *is* true.

Your space station is:
A. Easy to kill, and cheap. Invaders can wreck em without too much trouble, but it's kind of like shooting a bucket on their way to burn down your house. You can get another bucket.
B. Very difficult to kill, but expensive. Now your nation's resources are mismanaged badly, because there's literally no way in BT to make space station that planetary invaders have to worry about. So you still lose that planet, but now you paid extra for that privilege.
C. Both useful and affordable. This space unicorn cannot exist in BT, no matter how much you wish it so.

OP's question was specifically bout option A, your approach towards B is thread drift.

[RifleMech]

Then it's not a BattleSat. You were talking about ASF vs BattleSat.

Thrust-related crits, control-related crits, bomb crits, and door crits. Nothing else. Armor and SI damage has zero effect on the reentry roll.

Rules for ECM in space are in StratOps, page 110. Comm gear has no effect ever. Units larger than fighters get their ECM for free, and putting an actual ECM suite on them does exactly nothing. They also get ECCM for free. Neither ECM or ECCM functions in the way it does on the ground.

 ??? I never said anything about the BattleSat.

True but there's many ways of causing critical hits to ASFs.

It says Fighters and Small Craft. I'll have to ask in the Rules section. Small Craft top out at 200 tons so that could include some Satellites. That would allow their ECM to function as ECCM. I'll post the answer when I get one.

Time to stop calling it a satellite, and start calling it a space station.

Legally, they're satellites. Satellites are 300 tons or less. Space Stations start at 2,000 tons.

You argue pretty vehemently in favor of your position, while you so clearly haven't consulted the rules that govern this.
This isn't about what you wish was true. We're telling you what *is* true.

And there's 4 ways a hit can cause a critical resulting in damage making re-entry more dangerous. I did read the rules. TM pages 238-239.

Your space station is:
A. Easy to kill, and cheap. Invaders can wreck em without too much trouble, but it's kind of like shooting a bucket on their way to burn down your house. You can get another bucket.
B. Very difficult to kill, but expensive. Now your nation's resources are mismanaged badly, because there's literally no way in BT to make space station that planetary invaders have to worry about. So you still lose that planet, but now you paid extra for that privilege.
C. Both useful and affordable. This space unicorn cannot exist in BT, no matter how much you wish it so.

OP's question was specifically bout option A, your approach towards B is thread drift.

I believe I've said from the beginning that they would be cheap and easy to kill.

I never said anything about a 2,000 plus ton satellite.

I never said anything about unicorns either. I am not causing thread drift. I have been discussing Satellites. Not Space Stations. They are two separate types of units.

[Daryk]

Retry brought up BattleSats, not RifleMech...

[Retry]

Then it's not a BattleSat. You were talking about ASF vs BattleSat.

??? I never said anything about the BattleSat.

Retry brought up BattleSats, not RifleMech...

...Err... Sorry?

[Daryk]

Much of the confusion seemed to have been driven by some (including me for a day or two) conflating your posts with RifleMech's… I hope this sorts it out...

[Paul]

It says Fighters and Small Craft. I'll have to ask in the Rules section. Small Craft top out at 200 tons so that could include some Satellites. That would allow their ECM to function as ECCM. I'll post the answer when I get one.

By definition, a small craft and a satellite are 2 different entities.

Legally, they're satellites. Satellites are 300 tons or less. Space Stations start at 2,000 tons.

I challenge you to make a 300 ton one that's somehow meaningful to this concept of yours.

And there's 4 ways a hit can cause a critical resulting in damage making re-entry more dangerous.

You seem to overestimate how likely critical hits are. And you seem to think re-entry is major obstacle. By dint of being invaders, they brought vehicles (DropShips, likely) that have aerospace fighter bays.

I believe I've said from the beginning that they would be cheap and easy to kill.

Your 300 ton object that's meant to be a threat to an aerospace fighter is not cheap anymore.

I never said anything about unicorns either. I am not causing thread drift. I have been discussing Satellites. Not Space Stations. They are two separate types of units.

For purposes of how rules interact with them, perhaps.
Speaking about the in-universe theory about how you defend planets, the distinction is much less relevant.

But hey, you haven't listened to a single thing I've posted about this, so perhaps I should go do something else.

[RifleMech]

Retry brought up BattleSats, not RifleMech...

Thank you.

...Err... Sorry?

Weiro's reply was to my post about weapons in the satellites rear arc. I believe he,mixed your post up with mine.

By definition, a small craft and a satellite are 2 different entities.

True. However Strategic Operations seems to have forgotten about Satelites so I've been going by tonnage. Its also why I asked for clarification in the rules section. To have an official answer.

I challenge you to make a 300 ton one that's somehow meaningful to this concept of yours

.

I might do that for kicks, but why should I have to prove that a weapon on a satellite can cause possibly cause enough damage to another aerospace unit to make reentry more challenging?

You seem to overestimate how likely critical hits are. And you seem to think re-entry is major obstacle. By dint of being invaders, they brought vehicles (DropShips, likely) that have aerospace fighter bays.

Possibly but a chance of a critical hit is still a chance?  And so? We've already established that said satellights would be facing ASF.

Your 300 ton object that's meant to be a threat to an aerospace fighter is not cheap anymore

.

I never said it has to be 300 tons. Even if it was, itd still be cheaper than a 2000 ton space station. And all the satellite has to do is be able to possibly cause one of those crit rolls. Not outright destroy the ASF. Although that would be the best outcome.

For purposes of how rules interact with them, perhaps.
Speaking about the in-universe theory about how you defend planets, the distinction is much less relevant.

But hey, you haven't listened to a single thing I've posted about this, so perhaps I should go do something else.

There might not be much distinction between them in practical terms. One is just a much smaller version of the other. However, they are constructed and operate under different sets of rules. That makes them distinct unit types. Calling both units space stations would even cause more confusion than there is now.

To clear up any further misunderstandings. I am and have been talking about Satellites which have a max tonnage of 300 tons.

[Weirdo]

Retry brought up BattleSats, not RifleMech...

My mistake. Apologies.

[RifleMech]

No worries :)