Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus.

[jimdigris]

Considering the howling going on in Parliament over the Rim Territories invading a sovereign nation- the Marian Hegemony, I think it most unlikely that the FWL will turn a significant amount of firepower toward the MoC.  They'll go after Andurien first, considering that it was formerly an integral part of the League.

[Decoy]

Andurien isn't griefing as much as MoC is these days. Heck, make a deal to Ari Humphreys that he marries a Marik woman who is actually of childbearing age and promise him that the Anduriens will have the prominence they were used to and he may be placated.

[jimdigris]

How is the MoC "griefing"?

[TwinkieMonkieIIC]

Seems like Ari Humpherys is the one with the diabolical plans for the FWL considering whatever the MOC and Anduriens have in mind, Humpherys is the one credited with masterminding it.

[Minemech]

 Did you ever consider that Daoshen may have better control of the situation than Ilsa understands? Daoshen will do whatever he believes best obtains the interests of the Capellan state, even if that means doing what Ilsa desires. That does not mean that he is unwilling to intentionally overextend his military to humble Ilsa. The Magistracy is not an equal throne in the traditional sense, but one that serves the will of heaven by serving the interests of the Confederation--The Magistracy obtains its equality by serving the interests of the Confederation. That is the logic behind the relationship, from the Capellan side.

[jimdigris]

There is perception, and there is reality.  Beyond that, I cannot say much.  Daoshen believes that he can dominate the MoC, but his people may end up not being allowed to speak with contractions.  Or, when he dies, wild parties may become compulsory for all Capellan citizens. >:D

[Minemech]

 A Clan conquest of the Capellan Confederation would be a plot twist, and an absolute frustration to those states who would have to border it. The greater questions would be who in the end will have conquered who. There would be a mad grab by Rimward powers of key Capellan worlds. There could be a new Capellan dynasty that would rule the more rimward portions of the former Confederation. The irony would be such a state would be propped up by neighboring Successor States to keep conquering Clan and neighboring periphery powers from rising too much. It would be more interesting if it was ruled by a Sian-Marik.
 

 

[jimdigris]

We have good reason to believe that an IlClan will be declared at some point in the near future.  At that point, things could get ugly for all the major Houses.

[tassa_kay]

Don’t hold your breath on that. Danai is destined to rule a future Capellan/Canopian/Andurien superstate, and the FWL and Clan mongrels better get with the program. ;-)

[MarauderD]

We have good reason to believe that an IlClan will be declared at some point in the near future.  At that point, things could get ugly for all the major Houses.

Things are already pretty ugly for us.  I welcome our new clan overlords.  May they punch the Dragon in the teeth for us.   :thumbsup:

[jimdigris]

I'm hoping that when the IlClan comes, the physical distance from Terra will make the MoC a low enough priority that it can maintain a degree of independence from the new order.  I suspect the remnants of Capellan leadership will be camped in Canopian territory.

Things are already pretty ugly for us.  I welcome our new clan overlords.  May they punch the Dragon in the teeth for us.   :thumbsup:

It hasn't been that ugly yet.  We've only had one or two regiments in the Capellan fighting; The rest were fighting the Marians.  Danai shows up in several battles, but as head of the 2nd Macarron's Armored Cav.

[MarauderD]

When I say 'ugly for us' I'm of course referring to the nation in my sig.  The FWL is sitting pretty well right now, all things considered.  Especially with Regulus brought to heel.

[TwinkieMonkieIIC]

When I say 'ugly for us' I'm of course referring to the nation in my sig.  The FWL is sitting pretty well right now, all things considered.  Especially with Regulus brought to heel.

Not as ugly as before.  New Syrtis and Robinson back in Davion hands and there's no way the Combine can hold New Avalon with Julian at the helm.

[jimdigris]

I think things are looking better for the Federated Suns now that they've gotten two of three capitals back.  As for the FWL, their position is a little better, but they're reluctant to even go after the Marians for invading their border worlds.  I suspect that they believe themselves to be stretched militarily.  And having Wolves sitting on their border isn't helping anyone's insomnia.

[Minemech]

 With Clan Wolf wholeheartedly focused on Terra, and the Falcons, I feel a bit less defensive--a bit that is. The League really should back up its memberstate.

[TwinkieMonkieIIC]

With Clan Wolf wholeheartedly focused on Terra, and the Falcons, I feel a bit less defensive--a bit that is. The League really should back up its memberstate.

It would certainly lend more legitimacy for her consolidating power "for the duration of the emergency" than just settling scores with Regulus for killing her mom while Tamarind is flapping in the wind.

[R.Tempest]

 Regarding potential rulers for the Confederation. Are there any descendants in the Allard-Liao line? Candace was the heir before the events of the Succession war. I'm sure Romano had her and all her line cut out of the succession but still, if it's a choice between one of them and a Canopian that wouldn't be an insurmountable political problem.
 Please feel free to educate me on this.

[tassa_kay]

Regarding potential rulers for the Confederation. Are there any descendants in the Allard-Liao line? Candace was the heir before the events of the Succession war. I'm sure Romano had her and all her line cut out of the succession but still, if it's a choice between one of them and a Canopian that wouldn't be an insurmountable political problem.
 Please feel free to educate me on this.

We already have a proper Capellan heir: Danai. That she is also Canopian is only of benefit to the Celestial Throne. No Allard-Liao mongrels need apply. ;)

[TwinkieMonkieIIC]

We already have a proper Capellan heir: Danai. That she is also Canopian is only of benefit to the Celestial Throne. No Allard-Liao mongrels need apply. ;)

Any Allard-Liao would be fairly problematic.

I don't believe any of Kai's kids are still among the living.  Melissa died on Liao and David Lear passed as well.  I dont recall if they had heirs.

Kuan-Yin Allard-Liao was the last Duchess of St. Ives but it seems like her pull was mostly with Sun Tzu and even then mostly on domestic social issues.  Any of her heirs may be best placed for a shot at the celestial throne as they carry political clout in the CC or at least the very least St. Ives.

Cassandra Allard-Liao is apparently doing the mercenary commander thing and had at least one child with Tamas Rubinsky but demonstrates zero interest in the CC.

I recall refernce to a Quintus Allard-Liao in the Capellan Solution novels but no real details aside from that he was more involved with the FedCom than St. Ives.

Of Candace's kids, the only ones with an outside shot or even really interest in ruling the CC might, and that's a long might, be any of Kuan-Yin's heirs.

Aside from a total lack of legitimacy outside of St. Ives, none of the hypothetical Allard-Liaos can match Danai in terms of her claim.  Not only do they have to overcome familial associations with individuals notorious for betraying and deserting the Confederation, unlike most of the Allard-Liaos, Danai has a history of loyalty and competent, if not always successful military and diplomatic efforts on behalf of the Confederation.

Danai probably also came closer to killing the First Prince of the Federated Suns than any Capellan in history, and in fact literally crippled him, which is a nice feather in her cap.

[TwinkieMonkieIIC]

Also considering that Canopians are regarded as trusted allies and the Federated Suns as "The Enemy" by some Capellans in their thoughts, it seems any Centrella-Liao would face fewer issues than someone with Allard in their name.

[R.Tempest]

 Okay, Thank you all for explaining the realities here. This is what happens when you've been out of the loop for 10 years.
Personally I have no problem with the idea of a Periphery nation taking over a Successor State. Especially if it's done through a method other than military conquest.
 Of course the merging of both governments will be …. entertaining, to say the least.

[snakespinner]

The servitor class in the CC would have to learn the Karma Sutra for citizenship. :D

[TwinkieMonkieIIC]

Service Guarantees Citizenship.  Would You Like To Know More?

[glitterboy2098]

Okay, Thank you all for explaining the realities here. This is what happens when you've been out of the loop for 10 years.
Personally I have no problem with the idea of a Periphery nation taking over a Successor State. Especially if it's done through a method other than military conquest.
 Of course the merging of both governments will be …. entertaining, to say the least.

given they've been building up to it gradually, it works storywise. if it had just happened suddenly it would be harder to swallow. especialyl when we don't have novels to take up the slack for it, the way the creation of the fedcom did.

[Elmoth]

The FedCom is not exactly what I would call a success story anyway.

[Minemech]

I am curious as to if the Duchy of Andurien would allow the wife of the Duke to succeed him, or if she simply has the status of a consort. Consorts were frequently not part of the line of succession, but allowed to wear the crown while their spouse reigned. Danai may also not qualify as a successor.

 (Edit: Something that I thought was a rule was reread and found to be optional. Therefore, I removed the 2nd paragraph)

[TwinkieMonkieIIC]

Any claim that Danai would have on the Anduriens would be tenuous.  Publically she is the sister of Ari Humphrey's consort.  Not sure that gives her any legitimate claim to his position.  Even if they publically announce that she is Ilsa's kid and that somehow Ari was enough of a cuck to be ok with it, you're probably looking at a lot of revulsion among Anduriens and open mutiny among the more anti-capellan ADF regiments.

If they do try a three way merger would be much more in keeping with the Andurien national character and history to revolt and try to resist or even try to get back into the FWL since a Marik overlord is probably more palatable to your average Andurien than a Liao overlord.

Hopefully, if and when Ilsa announces that Danai is her daughter, she'll leave out the part where Dao Shen was the dad.

[Sharpnel]

Hopefully, if and when Ilsa announces that Danai is her daughter, she'll leave out the part where Dao Shen was the dad.

It would be hard to keep the Dao Shen info secret as Danai grew up on Sian and is his only legitimate heir.

[TwinkieMonkieIIC]

It would be hard to keep the Dao Shen info secret as Danai grew up on Sian and is his only legitimate heir.

I believe she grew up on Canopus raised by Erde Centrella and is publically known to be the third child of Sun Tzu Liao and Naomi Centrella.

She didnt even know until Daoshen and Ilsa broke the news to her when she was an adult.

[jimdigris]

I suspect that when Danai does claim the throne, she will do so as Sun Tzu's daughter, and not Daoshen.  There are things that even the Capellans would not tolerate from the divine house of Liao.