Author Topic: Could BattleTanks be for those who like neither 'mech-based-TW nor AS?  (Read 5131 times)

BiggRigg42

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 375
I noticed there is a group of people who think that Total Warfare (TW) is too complicated or long, but Alpha Strike (AS) is too simple, and--apparently--all the advanced AS rules don't fix this problem. [Note: I do not fall into this group of people.]

For such people, I have a thought: "Why not play BattleTanks?". By, "BattleTanks" I mean, "Instead of playing TW with 'mechs, play TW with tanks." Tanks are a bit simpler and get destroyed a lot faster than 'mechs do.

What do you guys think; would this solution help people in with their aforementioned problem?

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
I'm here to play BattleTech with 'Mechs. Vehicles can be an interesting addition to a BT game, but not why i'm interested in BattleTech or playing it.
So, no, not a solution.

ActionButler

  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5844
I see what you mean, but tanks dying faster doesn’t actually make the rules any simpler.  You are still calculating to-hit modifiers based on a chart that now fills an entire page, still rolling for cluster damage, still consulting one of several location charts if you don’t have them memorized (which, yes, is unreasonable to expect from new players), still dealing with so many weapons that just listing them takes multiple pages now.   
Experimental Technical Readout: The School
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56420.0

BiggRigg42

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 375
I see what you mean, but tanks dying faster doesn’t actually make the rules any simpler.  You are still calculating to-hit modifiers based on a chart that now fills an entire page, still rolling for cluster damage, still consulting one of several location charts if you don’t have them memorized (which, yes, is unreasonable to expect from new players), still dealing with so many weapons that just listing them takes multiple pages now.


True--but tanks do not fall down, tanks don't track heat, and I don't think you have to do consciousness checks for tanks. In that way, tanks are a bit simpler.

Daemion

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5856
  • The Future of BattleTech
    • Never Tales and Other Daydreams
I'm with Empyrus. Tanks are not the draw for me. Mechs are.

If I want true tank warfare, there are tons of better games to choose from, even for futuristic sci-fi.  Ogre/GEV comes to mind. Heavy Gear has some good rules. Even CAV.

So, no.  I don't mind mixing in tanks on BTs terms, although I do wish there was some extra tech disparity between 'locally produced' militia vehicles and 'Frontline' flag-bearing regimental combat tanks.

It's your world. You can do anything you want in it. - Bob Ross

Every thought and device conceived by Satan and man must be explored and found wanting. - Donald Grey Barnhouse on the purpose of history and time.

I helped make a game! ^_^  - Forge Of War: Tactics

ActionButler

  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5844

True--but tanks do not fall down, tanks don't track heat, and I don't think you have to do consciousness checks for tanks. In that way, tanks are a bit simpler.

Oh that ia certainly true, but the difference in the quantity of rules that you’re talking about is still a proverbial drop in the bucket.
Experimental Technical Readout: The School
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56420.0

William J. Pennington

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1081
I noticed there is a group of people who think that Total Warfare (TW) is too complicated or long, but Alpha Strike (AS) is too simple, and--apparently--all the advanced AS rules don't fix this problem. [Note: I do not fall into this group of people.]

For such people, I have a thought: "Why not play BattleTanks?". By, "BattleTanks" I mean, "Instead of playing TW with 'mechs, play TW with tanks." Tanks are a bit simpler and get destroyed a lot faster than 'mechs do.

What do you guys think; would this solution help people in with their aforementioned problem?

no, for the very specific group you are mentioning, I'll just say attempting to make happy those who are determined to be unhappy is a futile endeavor.

But, as pointed out, no one gets this game to play exclusively tanks. The hook for the game is Mechs, and without them, you wont have players.

Drewbacca

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3441
  • What could have been...
I have been thinking lateky the time has come to creatr a new version. Current Battletech can add the Classic to rhe name again and "Battletech" can be used by a simplified, streamlined, basically a video-game-on-a-table version of the game.

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19854
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
TW with AS maboard movement and firing rules speed things up quite a bit

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

ActionButler

  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5844
I have been thinking lateky the time has come to creatr a new version. Current Battletech can add the Classic to rhe name again and "Battletech" can be used by a simplified, streamlined, basically a video-game-on-a-table version of the game.

That should have been done AGES ago, IMO, but the pushback to any changes to the existing formula seem to have well and truly sunk that ship.
Experimental Technical Readout: The School
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56420.0

Drewbacca

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3441
  • What could have been...
It sounds to me like some people want to play the Mechwarrior Clicktech game-

ActionButler

  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5844
I think there is a wide spectrum between simpler Battletech and Clickytech, maybe something like the X-wing game but with hit locations, but you know, with the fullness of time, I feel like Clickytech was actually a very good game that as fatally hindered by several layers of bad decisions.

I mean, the Heroclix system must be a solid game, otherwise the minis wouldn’t be available in every game store, toy store, comic store, and book store that you walk into.  Throwing Battletech fans into buying blind bags was always going to be a problem, but blind bags with units we had never seen before, in an era we had never heard of before, fighting for factions that we had never heard of before was just too much.  That same blind bag Heroclix system, but with traditional 3025 designs, though?  I’d buy into that today.   
Experimental Technical Readout: The School
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56420.0

Iron Grenadier

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 785
Years ago I downloaded the quick start rules for my boys who were interested in learning about the game. Didn't track heat or critical hits and just made things easier even though it had vehicles and infantry. My friends and I will still play pick up games using them as well as we can get it done quickly.

I've never played Alpha Strike, Mechwarrior ClickTech so I don't know how those compare, but I always thought taking the quick start rules and add a map or two with some cut outs would make a great box set to attract new players. Not sure if this is what was done with the new box coming out?

Drewbacca

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3441
  • What could have been...
I have to be honest, I am still having trouble understanding what the problem with Battletech as it is is. What I am taking from the discussion is that it is too long and too complicated.

As to too complicated, I still don't see that. You roll dice, consult a table and mark you sheet. It may not be as easy as some games but it never goes beyond a bit of basic math. I have taught people if all ages including my nine year old and I have never had a problem with anyone complaining about the complexity.

Ad for too long, as someone who rarely gets a chance to play these days I enjoy that aspect. I am playing to socialize and have fun. Battletech is perfect for that because there is a lot of discussion built into the game. Also the dwindling armor and internal structure is part of the excitement. I would rather spend the time I habe enjoying the game rather than trying to rush through it. I have also neven played a game of battletech where I knew I had lost in the first turn. That has happened in other "faster" games.

Just because Battletech is old does not mean it is bad. It does not mean it is good either. But changing the game to make it faster does not mean it will be better either. A new version is not certain to be a success.

ActionButler

  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5844
Taken by itself, I don't think there is anything wrong with Battletech.  I think Battletech is very successful at providing an enjoyable, slow-playing, high-detail, squad-based skirmish simulation using big stompy robots.  In a vacuum, Battletech is a wonderful game that I have gotten many hours of enjoyment from.

But... I think that we, as a community of long-time players, frequently glance over exactly how much accounting this game requires compared to many of its would-be peers.  Let's be honest,
Quote
You roll dice, consult a table and mark you sheet
, is massive simplification of the game.  In reality, you move your pieces, consult a table (to-hit target), roll some dice (weapon #1 to-hit), roll some more dice (weapon #1 hit location), consult a different table (weapon #1 hit location), mark a records sheet, roll some more dice (weapon #2 to-hit), roll some more dice (weapon #2 hit location), consult the second table again (weapon #2 hit location), mark the record sheet, and continue doing that for however many of our several dozen different weapons you happen to be equipped with.  I know that a lot of us have all of those tables and weapons memorized, which speeds up the game considerably, but in an environment where the most successful games have all of the necessary information printed in big huge font on the mini or the mini's identification card, or whatever, Battletech is a lot of work.  For some people (us), that isn't a problem.  Heck, it is part of the APPEAL for some of us.  But is that what the larger gaming community wants?  Because I don't see a lot of evidence for that and my concern is that if CGL continues to pin all of its hopes on the success of Classic Battletech, it will only survive as long as this group of us is able to support it.
Experimental Technical Readout: The School
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56420.0

RABIDFOX50

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 463
  • 1507 Strike RCT
My gaming group is old. We have been playing Battletech for almost 22 years and we have seen and done everything. Combined arms is a large part of our AS and CBT menu. There are many times we just use Mechs however. About half of us have vast collections of miniatures and rules sets so it’s really a group choice for us. Some like Vees, others don’t. Bottom line, compromise and have fun.
Battletech collector/player since 1987
Toss a coin to your Witcher, oh valley of plenty!
Listen! Do you smell that?

Nicoli

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 313
As to too complicated, I still don't see that. You roll dice, consult a table and mark you sheet. It may not be as easy as some games but it never goes beyond a bit of basic math. I have taught people if all ages including my nine year old and I have never had a problem with anyone complaining about the complexity.
Complicated is the wrong word. It's too complex. The game itself is very simple, it just has way too much going on that you have to deal with laid out really poorly so that it takes way too long for what you have. I think the easiest way to put it is that what would take upwards of 1-2 hours to play out on the boardgame can be done on the new computer game in about 15min. That means you have about 45-105min of time dedicated to just resolving your actions.

Because of that I think Battletech needs a serious set of looking at everything and trying to figure out whether or not a lot of stuff needs to be represented in as much depth as it currently. Do we really need to have what 8 melee attacks? Resolve each individual pellet on an LB-X? In a lot of these things there is probably either a bunch of stuff that is heavily edge case and could be removed or there is just better ways of handling it. There is a saying that you can get 90% of the mastery of a skill with 10% of the effort and the remaining 10% of the mastery takes 90% of the effort. So I would like to see a version updated to remove a lot of the complexity to reduce the amount of work to get the results. I'd say the goal should be that two new players without any help should be able to get a lance on lance battle done in around an hour. Something that you can't get without a lot of tips and tricks from vets.

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
I can get done in hours, what it would take weeks to play, using MegaMek.

If anything, I pine for a more complex version of Battletech. The game could use a lot more technological differentiation and customization options.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Nicoli

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 313
misread the post to mean the opposite ignore my stupidity :)
« Last Edit: 16 July 2018, 22:09:41 by Nicoli »

Retry

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1450
I can almost guarantee you are not playing Battletech at that point you are playing with a lot of house rules.
A good-sized Double-Blind match can potentially take weeks, depending how much time the other participants have and when they can all meet up.  No need for more house rules.

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
I can almost guarantee you are not playing Battletech at that point you are playing with a lot of house rules. That said I wasn't referring to MegaMek. As much as I like what it tries to do, the fact that it is as clunky as it is a direct result of how much clunk is in the ruleset.  I was referring to the new Battletech game by HBS.

Though I am no stranger to house rules on the tabletop, I am thinking more in terms of scale-of-engagement. I've done weekend-consuming battalion scale games in my heyday. And that's as big as I ever convinced my friends to go.  I dare not even try and touch double blind on the table. Extrapolating from that, with unrealistic levels of attention and commitment a proper regimental scale battle is likely to take something on the order of 6 to 9 days IRL.

MegaMek, with batch movement on, I can knock out a battalion game in a couple of hours. Regiments in a matter of days.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Nicoli

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 313
A good-sized Double-Blind match can potentially take weeks, depending how much time the other participants have and when they can all meet up.  No need for more house rules.
Derp, lol. I read it wrong. I though you said "I can get done in hours, what it would take weeks to play using MegaMek" Missing that one comma caused the mix-up.

Yeah, MegaMek is great for making the game actually playable in a lot of cases.

BiggRigg42

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 375
Here is what makes the game appear too complicated: in order to get into BattleTech, one have to learn it all from Total Warfare--possibly by one's self. Learning how to play BattleTech from Total Warfare by one's self is not easy; I know this because I did it (with the help of this forum). Total Warfare being my first table top war game did not make things go easier for me. So, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with BattleTech. BattleTech is just really hard to learn by one's self. Once the game is learned, however, everything is fine.

The Battlemech Manual is a great step in the right direction. I wish it was published when I first got into this game. That said, Total Warfare is great at defining everything, and it is well written. I love reading Total Warfare; it is just really difficult to learn from as a noob.   

ActionButler

  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5844
I can get done in hours, what it would take weeks to play, using MegaMek.

If anything, I pine for a more complex version of Battletech. The game could use a lot more technological differentiation and customization options.

I'm not sure how either of these things addresses the issue at-hand.

I agree that MegaMek is great and that it is a massive time saver, but nothing about that helps generate revenue for CGL.  Likewise, I'm not sure if I've seen anyone else ask for a MORE complex version of the game.  I think the case could be made that, if there were fewer weapons and pieces of equipment, then the game would have room to add differentiation (different stats for different manufacturers) but, as it is, we already have more medium lasers than the Emperor has space marines.  Heck, at this point, you could just headcannon that the different types of weapons ARE the different manufacturer variants.
Experimental Technical Readout: The School
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56420.0

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
I'm not sure how either of these things addresses the issue at-hand.

Dissent from the notion that was expressed here:

Complicated is the wrong word. It's too complex.

which I vehemently disagree with

I agree that MegaMek is great and that it is a massive time saver, but nothing about that helps generate revenue for CGL.

Presumably people who play more often, and find playing easier, will be more likely to invest in sourcebooks.

Likewise, I'm not sure if I've seen anyone else ask for a MORE complex version of the game.

Me. I want a more complex version of the game. If someone offered a version of Battletech that let you build custom versions of weapons the way you build custom versions of mechs, swapping out laser lenses and ppc focusing coils, and power converters, I'd be there, making RACs with an increased jam chance in return for an extra tick on the firing rate. If the game added six more types of units, with cheap mechs that take crits like tanks, and space mechs that put LAMs to shame, and a high-end tank that takes damage more like a battlemech, I'm the guy who's diving on that product. I'm the guy who pines for it in the dark of the night.

I think the case could be made that, if there were fewer weapons and pieces of equipment, then the game would have room to add differentiation (different stats for different manufacturers) but, as it is, we already have more medium lasers than the Emperor has space marines.  Heck, at this point, you could just headcannon that the different types of weapons ARE the different manufacturer variants.

But we haven't got a Clan ER Light PPC. We haven't got Heavy Pulse Lasers. Different ballistic weapons could be introduced, with the inverse of the standard autocannon's range/damage paradigm. We've got a paltry number of armor options compared to damage-dealing options. ECM could get so much more detailed. changes in construction could make Ultralights and Superheavies more worthwhile to use.  There's plenty of room to expand into complexity.

It's not really as if you have to memorize X unique weapons, even under the current paradigm. You just know the keywords, of which there are far fewer. Pulse? Okay, easier to hit. ER? hits further away. Heavy? more damage. Streak? only fires if it'll hit. Everything else is laid out in the weapon's name or statblock. You only have to know about 20 weapons, and a handful of modifiers.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

HMS_Swiftsure

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 276
I can get done in hours, what it would take weeks to play, using MegaMek.

If anything, I pine for a more complex version of Battletech. The game could use a lot more technological differentiation and customization options.

Yeah, I agree.  I like the fact that the same rules apply to every unit, but without some backend complexity to those rules, it starts to feel like units are hard to differentiate from each other.  A Battlemaster and Stalker may look wildly different and support wildly different armaments, but in practice they play similarly.  I think quirks might have been an attempt to differentiate units of similar speed and tonnage while respecting the record sheets and construction rules, and with those limitations, quirks does a decent job.  I think it would have been preferable to rework those core rules.

ActionButler

  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5844
Presumably people who play more often, and find playing easier, will be more likely to invest in sourcebooks.

That's an interesting notion.  I'd be interested to know if A) there is anything to confirm it, and B) if there is any indication to how many (if any) players come TO Battletech FROM MegaMek.   

Me. I want a more complex version of the game. If someone offered a version of Battletech that let you build custom versions of weapons the way you build custom versions of mechs, swapping out laser lenses and ppc focusing coils, and power converters, I'd be there, making RACs with an increased jam chance in return for an extra tick on the firing rate. If the game added six more types of units, with cheap mechs that take crits like tanks, and space mechs that put LAMs to shame, and a high-end tank that takes damage more like a battlemech, I'm the guy who's diving on that product. I'm the guy who pines for it in the dark of the night.

But we haven't got a Clan ER Light PPC. We haven't got Heavy Pulse Lasers. Different ballistic weapons could be introduced, with the inverse of the standard autocannon's range/damage paradigm. We've got a paltry number of armor options compared to damage-dealing options. ECM could get so much more detailed. changes in construction could make Ultralights and Superheavies more worthwhile to use.  There's plenty of room to expand into complexity.

To what end, though?  Say that we do end up with Clan ER Light PPCs and Heavy Pulse Lasers and Heavy ER Pulse Lasers and Ultra LB-X Autocannons and Rotary LRMs and Gauss Rifle Arrays and Streak Pulse Rifles and every other possible permutation of weapon prefix.  What meaningful improvement does that actually ADD to the game other than slight shifting of numbers and dozens of pages to the next rulebook?  Complexity is fine, when it is merited and results in an improvement to the game, but complexity for the sake of complexity is just going to drown the core concepts of the game with clutter.
Experimental Technical Readout: The School
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56420.0

Retry

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1450
To what end, though?  Say that we do end up with Clan ER Light PPCs and Heavy Pulse Lasers and Heavy ER Pulse Lasers and Ultra LB-X Autocannons and Rotary LRMs and Gauss Rifle Arrays and Streak Pulse Rifles and every other possible permutation of weapon prefix.  What meaningful improvement does that actually ADD to the game other than slight shifting of numbers and dozens of pages to the next rulebook?  Complexity is fine, when it is merited and results in an improvement to the game, but complexity for the sake of complexity is just going to drown the core concepts of the game with clutter.

Not sure about the Heavy ER Pulse laser, but with the cER LPPC, it'd theoretically be light enough and "cool" enough to fit on a Superheavy Protomech, which would be a fascinating main gun.  Light and ultralight clan vehicles get a new armament option and there's more potential for additional interesting variants among 'Mechs and Vehicles as well.

Not sure about your rotary LRMs or streak pulse rifles as they don't seem reasonable, but I've developed stats for an "Ultra LB-X" AC, albeit with the intent of replacing the LB-X, Ultra AC, & regular AC entirely as opposed to just cluttering the ACs.

There's plenty of poorly covered niches in the game that can be patched with additional equipment, especially with respect to artillery systems and underwater combat.  Making either of those areas more interesting would be worthy ends, IMO.

Nicoli

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 313
Part of the issue with Battletech is that there is core is so complex and work heavy that trying to add things starts to drastically increase the amount of time to play the game. I'd love an increased EWar aspect but not on top of current game. If we could get a streamlined rule set then you could add some design space into the game to allow adding stuff with out just bolting it on.

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
That's an interesting notion.  I'd be interested to know if A) there is anything to confirm it, and B) if there is any indication to how many (if any) players come TO Battletech FROM MegaMek.   

On the IRC network I call home, I've lured in players who'd never heard of battletech and taught them to play. I've introduced people I RP with IRL to BT via MegaMek too. Heck, I've even given megamek demos at a local Linux User Group.  I would imagine it stands to reason that most people who purchase the products sold under the battletech label are players of one of battletech's flavors. Particularly the rulebooks, I have a difficult time imagining what use battletech rulebooks are to someone who does not at least intend or desire to play. With the plot sourcebooks, I suppose it is possible that there are people who purchase them to follow the storyline, but given that we're well into our sixth year of plot stagnation if that is their sole link to the franchise, and they have not given into despair then I must commend their willpower.

I think it is also likely that the more frequently you play, the more of the game you will have covered. I would have never touched most of the pre-generated scenario products from the FASA era if it wasn't for their inclusion in megamek, for example. Is it that difficult to believe that someone who spends a significant fraction of their free time playing Battletech, is likely to desire more material to feed their obsession, and will desire additional product? It certainly seems to me that the enthusiastic, frequent player is going to be more eager to purchase than the other extreme.

To what end, though?  Say that we do end up with Clan ER Light PPCs and Heavy Pulse Lasers and Heavy ER Pulse Lasers and Ultra LB-X Autocannons and Rotary LRMs and Gauss Rifle Arrays and Streak Pulse Rifles and every other possible permutation of weapon prefix.  What meaningful improvement does that actually ADD to the game other than slight shifting of numbers and dozens of pages to the next rulebook?  Complexity is fine, when it is merited and results in an improvement to the game, but complexity for the sake of complexity is just going to drown the core concepts of the game with clutter.

Variety.

Customization is a big part of the game. I have a player right now who literally cannot touch a mech without trying to make at the very least some minor change to it. Seems to itch him uncontrollably to leave the mech stock. We have a whole forum for design. It's a major facet of what makes battletech battletech. And Eventually, you explore all the combinations of parts that are satisfying to you as a player. Sometimes you get ideas that you wish you could explore, but the extant equipment doesn't have room for.

Not every combination of prefixes is going to be meaningful, which narrows the scope of what prefixes are relevant to what devices. Pulse doesn't apply to a missile. Streak would be meaningless on an Autocannon. But I'd enjoy having a Streak Thunderbolt launcher. Heavy and Light work for both Gauss and PPC. It's also rather rare for double prefixes to be applied to something. We have LBX autocannons, and we have Rotary Autocannons, but we don't currently have Rotary LBX autocannons. Whether or not allowing them, would be a point of debate under this sort of expansion.

the nature of the weapons available greatly influences the way things play out post-customization as well. I play a mech with a Streak SRM rack differently than I play a similar mech with a Standard SRM Rack. a HAG looks on the surface, very similar to a LRM launcher, but the cases in which I would prefer one or the other varies dramatically. More equipment options means more play options.

To take an out-of-battletech example, Pokemon is a franchise atleast partially oriented towards a rather young audience (though it certainly has its grown adherents as well). As near as I can tell, there's currently 807 of them.  Players do not have to memorize the type and movesets of each and every one of them, primarily they only need to know the far more manageable list of types of pokemon, which only numbers 18 types. I haven't paid attention to the games since maybe their second or third generation, but I could hop right back in today and fight effectively against modern opponents simply by knowing the rock-paper-scissors relation of the types involved. I might not be the MOST effective player, but I wouldn't be entirely obsolete either.  I'd argue the keyword abilities in Magic The Gathering are of a similar nature. I don't have to memorize that both the Force of Nature  and the Lord of the Pit deal the remainder of their damage above a blocker's defense stat, I just have to know that "Trample" means that, and from then on, any creature I see with Trample, I know instantly what it does. I also know what Rampage does. and First Strike. And I could jump back into the game after not having played for half a decade, and rapidly learn what the new keyword abilities mean.

One man's "clutter" is precisely what draws someone to the game.

To take another example, I've been playing a lot of Bolt Action, a World War II tabletop wargame of late. But I find it deeply unsatisfying sometimes. All of the tank cannons are condensed into three different classes of weapon. What were in the real world very distinct weapons platforms all wind up feeling very generic. Flaws and failings get masked or buffed out, while advantages and unique character get washed out. The same thing happens at the infantry level. One SMG is more or less treated like another, despite some of them being very flawed weapons, and others being superb. It doesn't prevent me from playing, but it doesn't engage me on quite as deep a level as battletech does.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

 

Register