The Sohei: O5P Warrior Monks

[Takiro]

I agree with you Kidd but the Sohei are undergoing a fundamental change from their old established canon selves in this version.

Here they are being publicly acknowledged for the first time by the Coordinator while simultaneously starting to compete with the Clans one on one aka dueling.

So for the units being discussed here funding is being expanded as well as their pool of available equipment.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I agree with you Kidd but the Sohei are undergoing a fundamental change from their old established canon selves in this version.

Here they are being publicly acknowledged for the first time by the Coordinator while simultaneously starting to compete with the Clans one on one aka dueling.

So for the units being discussed here funding is being expanded as well as their pool of available equipment.

I'm curious about something else, related to being a "Clanbuster" unit.

ComGuard's Invader Galaxy used Clan mechs and a familiarity with (the vulnerabilities) of Clan military doctrine.
Shadow Divisions used Cybernetics.  And had the Jihad gone as WoB planned, they probably *would have* succeeded in exterminating the Clans.

Sohei will use.. I'm guessing metaphysical prowess to offset superior hardware and pilot training?  The "Phantom Mech Ability" is controversial but in your game it can be whatever you want.  A "super sentai" made up of pilots with that or similar abilities, if that's what your angle is, might be a neat new way to theme some ClanBusters.

[Takiro]

Essentially, yes Tai Dai Cultist. We are doubling down on everything old school BattleTech would have to fight the Clans genetic superiority. There were three key contributors to gaining the Phantom Mech Ability - genetics, training and philosophy. Now the Combine has proven MechWarrior families and solid training but when you add in philosophy that is where the Sohei shines. They can draw on ancient martial arts honed and refined by O5P for centuries. The Sohei are after all devoted Kurita MechWarrior Monks who kind of harken back to the original soul of the Draconis Combine (circa 3025 when the game was launched). That is what I am trying to capture here.

[glitterboy2098]

doesn't have to be Phantom Mech though. could just be intensive training, study, and meditation. which would result in just high piloting/gunner skills. or edge, or other such more conventional results.

[Takiro]

Exactly in much the same way that Battletech has done. I can see folks who don't like the PMA using other means such as Sixth Sense, Natural Ability  (Mech/Gunnery or Piloting), etc to explain why the Sohei are so gifted.

[Archangel]

Who said anything about a low profile!

Neither the ISF nor the DCMS would be happy with the O5P meddling in their area of responsibility (the ISF especially given their long-standing rivalry).  The ISF would engage in a campaign to see the O5P forced to disband the unit and might even go so far as to quietly support mercenary/raider/pirate attacks against the unit (could actually be a plot hook in the campaign) like they did against Uncle Chandy.

Exactly in much the same way that Battletech has done. I can see folks who don't like the PMA using other means such as Sixth Sense, Natural Ability  (Mech/Gunnery or Piloting), etc to explain why the Sohei are so gifted.

Or it might simply be the 'Hand of Kannon' guiding them.   ;D

[Takiro]

Hopefully we will have some Fist of Kannon stuff (fluff and perhaps something else) for you soon Archangel. Hopefully it will meet with your approval. ;)

Oh yeah that is certainly a plot hook to come my friend.

[Archangel]

I was actually putting a play on the leaders of House Kamata repeatedly saying that "the will of Kamata" guided them in key moments in battle.  It seemed appropriate given the similarities between House Kamata and the O5P.   ;)

[Tai Dai Cultist]

ClanBusters have two dimensions to address: inferior tech and inferior skill.

Investing in TSM & Melee Weapon variants of mechs could be a fun angle for the tech side of the Clan-Superiority Sandwich.  What's doubly nice about that is it's already within the grasp of the Combine in your timeframe.

Clans don't like getting into melee, and if your Sohei have abilities that let them do in mechs what martial arts experts can do unaugmented (how about snapping a mech in half like a master breaks a rock?)... that might catch up on the other half of the equation.

[Daryk]

Interesting... when you put it that way, it sounds like Protoss vs. Terran in StarCraft II...

[Takiro]

Well we are still working on the Hand of Kannon stuff I spoke about earlier Archangel. I like the name a lot. Not sure you saw but I've decided to make them the Vehicle Contingent of the Sohei. They will have VTOLs, Infantry Fighting Vehicles, fast attack Hovertanks, and heavy artillery. Thinking of making them the largest unit within the Sohei at least to begin with possibly regimental size. As they are a secondary (conventional) force almost utilized as back up or support for the Mech unit I was picture a lot less Warrior Monk from them and possibly more soldier. Not to say that they are not O5P but I think they would be more of volunteers drawn from planetary militias and the DCMS. Hence not products of O5P directly in most cases. What are your thoughts??

Triple Strength Myomer and the Hatchet actually play into the first Sohei BattleMech which I have in mind. Named the Ono (Japanese Hatchet) it is basically a 3050 version of the HKZ-1F Hitotsume Kozo. Also don't forget about the C3 Network which was under utilized by the DCMS in my opinion. Could provide a vital edge to the Sohei.

[Archangel]

IMHO I would keep all the supporting elements small.  Otherwise you are just turning the unit into a standard DCMS unit with fancy names.  No more than a fighter wing and a reinforced battalion of armor and infantry each.  Should a mission require additional support, then their superiors would pull them from other assignments (guarding O5P facilities, jumpships, safehouses, etc) across the district (or even the Combine).  For example, most of the O5P's aerospace fighters are assigned to merchant escort duty in contingents numbering no more than a squadron each.  Infantry are likewise spread across dozens, if not hundreds of different assignments, ranging from guarding O5P facilities to marine contingents aboard their merchant fleet to bodyguard duty and like their aerospace brethren are usually in smaller detachments no more than a company.

For example, a DCMS regiment usually has no more than a regiment of armor and a regiment of infantry assigned to it on a semi-permanent basis.  If ordered to invade a planet, they would frequently be assigned additional conventional forces on a temporary basis.  Once the invasion was complete, the surviving forces would return to their previous assignments or be given a new assignment on the newly acquired planet.  The only supporting elements to be permanently assigned to the DCMS would be those requested by its commander and whose transfer was approved by his/her superiors or the DCMS High Command.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

IMHO I would keep all the supporting elements small.  Otherwise you are just turning the unit into a standard DCMS unit with fancy names.  No more than a fighter wing and a reinforced battalion of armor and infantry each.  Should a mission require additional support, then their superiors would pull them from other assignments (guarding O5P facilities, jumpships, safehouses, etc) across the district (or even the Combine).  For example, most of the O5P's aerospace fighters are assigned to merchant escort duty in contingents numbering no more than a squadron each.  Infantry are likewise spread across dozens, if not hundreds of different assignments, ranging from guarding O5P facilities to marine contingents aboard their merchant fleet to bodyguard duty and like their aerospace brethren are usually in smaller detachments no more than a company.

I'm for no organic support whatsoever.  Not even transport... the O5P has an entire navy of spacecraft as is.  Any one of their jumpships or dropships can be assigned to transport the Sohei for whatever mission they're on... and the allegedly civilian transports are a great way for the Sohei to show up by surprise virtually anywhere.

For example, a DCMS regiment usually has no more than a regiment of armor and a regiment of infantry assigned to it on a semi-permanent basis.  If ordered to invade a planet, they would frequently be assigned additional conventional forces on a temporary basis.  Once the invasion was complete, the surviving forces would return to their previous assignments or be given a new assignment on the newly acquired planet.  The only supporting elements to be permanently assigned to the DCMS would be those requested by its commander and whose transfer was approved by his/her superiors or the DCMS High Command.

See Forward ARC, the Combine's alternate approach to FedCom RCTs.
I think the Sohei would work better as a Death Commando style unit rather than a crack/frontline formation.  I'm talking 3rd/4th SW style Death Commandoes, before they became just another elite Mech outfit.  The kinds of guys who do their killing outside the cockpit even more often than inside.

[Archangel]

I'm for no organic support whatsoever.  Not even transport... the O5P has an entire navy of spacecraft as is.  Any one of their jumpships or dropships can be assigned to transport the Sohei for whatever mission they're on... and the allegedly civilian transports are a great way for the Sohei to show up by surprise virtually anywhere.

I disagree.

No transports means waiting for sufficient transports to reach them potentially adding weeks/months to the trip.  If you want to have them sneak on-planet in civilian transports they can meet the transports enroute rather than wait.  Dedicated transports would provide significant advantages over transports thrown together on short notice including dedicated facilities (repair, medical, C3, etc), faster loading/unloading (vital if conducting such operations while under fire) and crews that are more experienced in conducting military operations, such as boarding hijacked DropShips/Jumpships, and other risky maneuvers such as using pirate points.

Marine infantry is better suited/trained to regaining control of hijacked/captured spacecraft/station or seizing control of enemy vessels.  Scouts can land on-planet weeks ahead of the main force, meet with local assets, perform reconnaissance of the target area and have the information ready for when the main force arrives.  A MechWarrior battalion would be hard-pressed to secure a captured DropShip, rescue its crew from the holding facility (including any crew that were injured when their vessel was captured) AND fight off any enemies that try to intervene.

I think the Sohei would work better as a Death Commando style unit rather than a crack/frontline formation.  I'm talking 3rd/4th SW style Death Commandoes, before they became just another elite Mech outfit.  The kinds of guys who do their killing outside the cockpit even more often than inside.

The problem there is that the Death Commandos can draw their recruits from any unit within the CCAF, the O5P or more specifically the Sohei have a much smaller pool to draw from.  Replacing each lost MechWarrior would be more difficult unless one lowered the qualification necessary to join the unit.  Replacing groundpounders is far easier.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I disagree...

I wasn't saying no transports.  I was saying no transports that are "on the books" as the Sohei's permanent rides.  The O5P possesses an entire navy of jumpships and dropships.  An O5P paramilitary force could just use the O5P's existing fleet, and blend in with the commercial traffic to hide their movements.  If a frontal military style assault is called for, the DCA can provide transportation just like they do for the DCMS.  But O5P's merchant space fleets allow for much more discreet maneuver when a frontal banzai charge isn't called for.  The O5P has been moving spies across the inner sphere at their whim for centuries; a small(ish) mech force seems like a plausible extension of this power.

But the smaller the force, the more plausible it is.  That's part of why I don't like the idea of armies of conventional support forces permanently attached.  12 individuals and 12 mechs?  those can be smuggled just about anywhere in a merchant tramp.  Not so much an entire army.

The problem there is that the Death Commandos can draw their recruits from any unit within the CCAF, the O5P or more specifically the Sohei have a much smaller pool to draw from.  Replacing each lost MechWarrior would be more difficult unless one lowered the qualification necessary to join the unit.  Replacing groundpounders is far easier.

Well, I was actually referring to the Death Commandos prior to when they accepted CCAF recruits.  The O5P is an entity that spans not just the entire Combine, but most (if not all) of the Inner Sphere itself.  They'll have a pool of personnel in their organization larger than real-life countries' entire population.  if we're talking 12, even 36 exceptional individuals to be Sohei, that's still less than a drop in the bucket of the O5P's manpower, to say nothing of an entire Successor State's.

[DOC_Agren]

Now how big is the Sohei going to be?
And will they every fight as 1 total unit, or will they normally fight as small units.  Units that can hid as Merc or Corporate Troops.  If so I can see them having "company" transports assigned to them.

As for assets, limited amount of Aerospace Assets, Ground Forces (once again limited amounts) if you need more vehicles or areospace assets borrow them, on the otherhand I can see them having access to Elite level Inf and BA for to provide for Spec Ops missions as well as security for the unit.

[Takiro]

Hey folks, I have been following Archangel and Tai Dai Cultist discussion as well as working on some things I can now share with you all concerning the Sohei.

Good question Doc Argen. I’ve decided to make the Hand of Kannon a battalion of (36) Vehicles (VTOLs, Fast Attack Hovertanks, and Large Artillery Tanks) which follows the Forward ARC principle that Tai Dai Cultist pointed out. I suppose this gives the Sohei more vehicle support then the standard Mech unit which is a regiment opposed to the battalion (40 Mechs) the Warrior Monks begin with. Please also remember that every Sohei receives martial arts training so in and out of their equipment they are pretty bad ass.

Before I comment on the rest of the Sohei’s strength I have made a decision on a name for their supporting naval arm. Ice Hellion’s suggestion for the Shuinsen (Red-Seal Ships) really won me over so I decided to go with it. I figure these armed merchantmen from history would work well specially permitted parts of the O5P fleet now militarized for the Sohei’s use. I have not determined their exact size as of yet but I figure they may just be the largest part of the Sohei. I figure the Shuinsen will include Jumpships, Dropships, Small Craft, Marines, and maybe even wet navy vehicles used for training.

Of course, the Shuinsen’s numbers will be determined by the number of transports needed by the Sohei. With 40 BattleMechs, 12 Aerospace Fighters (Tennyo), 252 Infantry (Oniwaka battalion is mostly conventional due to the limited amount of Battlearmor available), and 36 Vehicles (Hand of Kannon has 24 Light and 12 Heavy Vehicles) it gives us a number of possible dropships to consider. They would go along with a few Assault Dropships like the Achilles. I’d love to hear what you guys think.

So, on January 25th I messaged Flieger here on the forums being a fan of his art work which can be seen in the link below. I was interested in creating logos for the Sohei which I explained to him and thankfully grabbed his attention. Got to say it was a real pleasure working with Flieger who listened to all my nonsense and real ran with it nicely. Hopefully we can collaborate on more intriguing concepts soon.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=47591.0

Starting with the most basic color palette (ivory white, red, and gold) we quickly moved to the core symbol for the Sohei, the Five Rings. Based on imagery drawn from the Book of the Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi these iconic interlocking circles are simple and elegant. Using this base pictorial representation for the Warrior Monks of 05P seemed to be a lock for me and hence my new avatar.

From there we went to the unit insignia for the Sohei which like the rest of the DCMS is the overall name for the unit and Mech formation. Offsetting the Five Rings against a gray Kurita Dragon bought out the best in all aspects of the images not only visually but historically. The gray speaks volumes to the Sohei's past which is shrouded in mystery and probably always will be. Existing in the shadows doing O5P’s bidding these warriors in the dark have a gray logo that works perfectly IMO.

The other four supporting subunits also got their own insignias too which keep that signature grey background as well as the core Five Ring symbol. The Tennyo have angelic wings surrounding their five rings denoting their aerospace role and illuminating their Japanese name.

The massive Oniwaka infantry are representing by crossed Kanabo war clubs which Flieger thought was part of an underrepresented motif (maces and clubs) for BattleTech insignias. He later added demon horns and a tiger stripe background to fill in their gray backdrop as well as eluding to the Oni’s traditional depictions.

[Takiro]

The Hand of Kannon symbol is fairly easy to imagine with its five hands and palm set eyes surrounding the Five Sohei Rings per the Japanese deity which this conventional vehicle force is named in honor of.

Finally, the Shuinsen naval arm is based on the IJN flag with the rising sun replaced with the Five Rings along with waves added below to reflect its role within the Sohei.

I hope you guys like these symbols as much as Flieger and I do. I had a bunch of fun creating them and really can’t be happier to share them all with you. Thanks again Flieger, great work!!

[Kidd]

Kwannon.

[Ice Hellion]

And here is someone for the Onikawa

Born on Rasalhague, Olgr Gangleri was an oddity in the ‘Mech oriented DCMS as an expert infantry leader, able to stubbornly defend any position in spite of overwhelming odds or to launch and take fortified positions and stay there until reinforcements came.
He proved it time after time during the War of 3039 and the early battles of the Clan Invasion, leading whole platoons and earning for himself the nickname of Fudō for the protective deity in Buddhism, the Immovable One.

In spite of being born on what became the capital of the Free Rasalhague Republic, Shujin Gangleri decided to stay with the Draconis Combine seeing this as “his duty” and never displayed any lack of motivation to perform it.
However because of his noticeable Scandinavian origins (Olgr Gangleri is a blonde giant more akin to a Viking warrior of old than to a Samurai) and of an obscure reference written in his personal file about “the Arteson’s mark”, he was sent on some Periphery worlds facing only bandits and pirates, until he came across Kenji Minamoto that brought Fudō with him in the Oniwaka unit.

[Takiro]

Kidd it appears that there are several different spellings for Kannon. This one which does appear to be valid was suggested by Archangel so I think I am going to stick with it.

Very nice Ice, that is the seventh (7) character bio we have thus far for the Sohei. I have at least three more planned myself and would love to add more. I did three of the Sohei's high officers, the commander of the Tennyo, and the commander of the Oniwaka. O5P_Ghost has completed one MechaSenshi (MechWarrior) and has listed three more (members of the same lance). Ice has did a Tennyo pilot and a Oniwaka giant, so a good mix so far. No Hand of Kannon or Shuinsen characters yet. Love to get more!

[DOC_Agren]

Might I offer up a member
Makiko Itagaki
callsign: Mu-onna (無女 lit."nothing woman"?)

Makiko Itagaki, is the most forgetable bland woman, you will ever meet, 10 mins later you will struggle to remember anything about her, even if shown photos most time you will pick out the wrong women.  She was former adept in the O5P serving along the periphery of the in the Draconis Combine, trained as both an intelligence operative as well in many other skills.  When the Clan overran the planet her family was on, she lost everyone.  She survived and preyed on her enemies with her family owned PHX-HK1, until she was able to be extracted.

She has never been the greatest Aerospace Pilot, consider green, yet in a Mech she is consider at Vet pilot.  She wants to stop the Clans for taking other parents children, and will do rash things when kids are threatened.

[Takiro]

Fantastic Doc! Still looking for more potential members. ;)

[Kidd]

Kidd it appears that there are several different spellings for Kannon. This one which does appear to be valid was suggested by Archangel so I think I am going to stick with it.

indeed. but Kwannon is the romanised spelling used in Battletech.

[Takiro]

I was not aware Kwannon was used in the BattleTech universe. Be happy to adopt it if that is the case. ;)

Flieger has posted the Sohei insignias over on his art thread on these forums for anyone looking for a better look at them. I did have one person tell me that he couldn't see the attachments I posted to this thread.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=47591.msg1294861#msg1294861

Once again special thanks to Flieger for great work on these images.

[Sharpnel]

Which of the five sub-units is the infantry arm?

Nevermind, found it.

Character Submission for Onikawa

Shizuko Lofgren

Shizuko is of Rasalhagian stock, with her grandfather maintaining his loyalty to the Dragon following the creation of the Free Rasalhague Republic. Her grandfather was a former Battalion in a Rasalhague Regulars regiment, but would later command a Battalion in one of the Alshain Regular before retiring in his early 50s due to cancer. Her maternal grandmother was a member of the O5P, as well as an aunt, several distant cousins and her mother. Shizuko is a large woman at just under two meters in height and weighing in at about 120kg. She initially began her training as a MechWarrior, but washed out of the prior to graduation due to an inner ear infection that through off her center of balance. The Order still saw a use for her and trained her as an infantry warrior and later as a battle armor trooper, where the side effects of her infection were less of a concern. Over the years, she has become quite proficient in all the battle suits available to the DCMS and O5P, though she has a hatred for the Kage as it is a bit too confining for her height and mass. She is also quite competent in unarmed combat (Karate and Krav Maga) as well as armed combat.

Height: 1.96m (6' 5")

Weight: 120kg (265lbs)

[Takiro]

Very nice Sharpnel. That is the tenth (10th) completed character bio I have and let me further breakdown the total numbers for what we need to fill in the unit.

36 Sohei Mechwarriors
4 Sohei LAM Pilots
12 Tennyo Aerospace Pilots
252 Oniwaka Infantry (mostly conventional due to the limited amount of Battlearmor available)
36 Hand of Kannon Vehicle crews (24 Light and 12 Heavy Vehicles)

Haven't broken down the exact number of Shuinsen personnel yet but I figure here is a rough look at what that unit has.

Monolith class Jumpship (modified)
Overlord class Dropship
Seeker class Dropship
2 Achilles class Dropships

[Flieger]

Shizuko is of Rasalhagian stock, with her grandfather maintaining his loyalty to the Dragon following the creation of the Free Rasalhague Republic. Her grandfather was a former Battalion in a Rasalhague Regulars regiment [...]

... just some blue sky thinking: what if the deep roots of the O5P Sohei would be found in the Ronin?

I mean the Ronin are professional and highly dedicated troops, who believe adhering to their honour and serving the Dragon. Recruiting those people after the Ronin War has several advantages: you professionals with no love for the DCMS, and their defeat opens their mind for new ideas (defeats tend to have this effect; see post WW1&2 Germany). They get a second chance by meditating over their failing in the monastry under the auspicies of the O5P, and then by serving the Dragon in their own ways - and in rivalry to the DCMS. When the Clans enter, they'd feel vindicated by the need of non-DCMS troops with other ideals to combat the Clans.

Of course, only few Ronin would consider serving the O5P in the 3030ies, but you don't need many. You only need a few who begin their rehabilitation in an O5P monastry. Those few 'open minded' officers can then lay the military-logistics ground work of the Sohei as a military unit.


Again, just some brain storming by someone who is not totally familiar with the DraCom. But you know, military units don't come out of nowhere. Some pre-Clan Invasion seeds are needed, imo. If not the Ronin, the O5P may recruit from other sources (Yakuza? Some warrior cults?). Also the O5P may well unite different groups.


PS: Shrapnel, I am honoured that you chose the Oniwaka badge as a your avatar.   :)

[Takiro]

Thanks again Flieger for the great artwork!

The second incarnation of the Ronin would be a tough sell to me. Loyalty is a big deal to the Sohei perhaps surpassing all other concerns. That being said I suppose there might be a way to fit such a character in (an undercover agent who was Ronin only to betray them yet may still be distrusted by even his brothers). Be an interesting idea I suppose.

The yakuza would be a tough sell as well as I see them more traditional mind. Women maybe the vast majority of Sohei as O5P is composed of many females in this male dominated society. You'll notice that so far most of the high officers are male however, thought that would be proper given the Combine.

[Sir Chaos]

Thanks again Flieger for the great artwork!

The second incarnation of the Ronin would be a tough sell to me. Loyalty is a big deal to the Sohei perhaps surpassing all other concerns. That being said I suppose there might be a way to fit such a character in (an undercover agent who was Ronin only to betray them yet may still be distrusted by even his brothers). Be an interesting idea I suppose.

How about members of units that went Ronin who deserted or otherwise did not take part in active rebellion, but were swept up when those units were struck from the DCMS roster?