Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business

[Inkvine]

Since I need to take a bit of a break from Combatmath and AccountantTech (which I kinda like, don't get me wrong, but I got spreadsheet PTSD from EvE Online), I'd want to seek advice on a number of topics regarding the logical expansion of our company.

Desert Harriers [3045 Mercenary Unit]

While not everything has been added yet, it's a pretty lengthy entry already, so I'll try to give a more concise description here:

The year is 3045. The Desert Harriers are a Steiner/Rasalhague-flavored combined arms reinforced batallion in service since the Ronin Wars, slowly and steadily evolving towards an RCT. Currently staging from Holmsbu, after a couple setbacks during 3039 they have not only recovered, but significantly expanded their assets and have spent a couple years consolidating and reforming the unit into its current state. As it stands, not only is the unit in the process of breaking the mold that is the already bursting reinforced batallion, but their transport capacity is starting to become insufficient aswell.

1. Force Organization

The next logical step would be to expand to either a second batallion or an understrength regiment. My main question is how the upscaling and expanding process is usually done. Go up to the next biggest force org and field understrength units, filling the minimum positions? Open up a second batallion with a semi-independent command, connected by a HQ lance? Procure a bunch of reservists and excess equipment until the minimums can be filled? And finally, are there any canon examples for such a process?

Since we are trying to expand into an RCT, the golden ratio seems to be as follows (listed as Batallion size units):
1 Mech - 3 Vehicle - 5 Infantry - 1 Support - 1 Artillery + 2 Aero Wings

My approach would be to shoot for a regiment consisting of three (reinforced?) batallions, the first being a mixed weight 'Mech batallion, the second a heavy armor batallion, the third reserved for light combat assets such as VTOLs, hovers, etc. while the fourth one would house support and scouting elements, with the odd air lance tacked on here and there.

2. Dropships

Our current dropships are a (likely to be modified, trading 'Mech for vehicle bays) Overlord, a modified Triumph (to take more light vehicles) and a token Leopard which we kept around for tactical flexibility and missions where we need a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer.

These have been sufficient until now, yet if we don't suffer heavy losses in the next (admittedly dangerous) campaign, we'd need ships to expand if we don't want to indefinitely rely on external transportation. While there might be possibilities to hijack dropships, that is OOC knowledge, so I'm not inclined to take that into account just yet.

As I already noted in the changelog, our first impulse would be to try and sell off the Triumph and barter for an Excalibur, assuming we are able to find one on the market. When it comes to dropships, the bigger the more efficient seems to be the case. For example, Unions, while readily avaliable, don't seem to be worth it for the cost compared to Overlords, for larger units such as ours at least. Which dropships should I take a look at to facilitate the transition process in your opinion? The Seeker seems to be a decent investment, for example.

3. Infantry and light vehicles

I'm overall facing the conundrum of justifying expansion of the combined arms elements of the batallion at the moment because of how prohibitively expensive dropships are, and because the space requirements are so harsh. Even with me as a GM allowing to split a heavy vehicle bay into two light ones, a Darter or Swiftwind seems to take the same single light bay as a Drillson or a Condor. Infantry is another matter entirely, being of low throw weight but invaluable in urban situations, especially since I'm planning to start the campaign off on the defense, in urban areas, with civilians and their safety/evacuation/humanitary concerns being a major consideration. I'd love to have significant infantry/mobile infantry assets, yet the financial aspect seems a little daunting.

4. Aerospace

I love fighters, but they are not only expensive, but also likely unsalvageable when they crash. We're currently thinking of using Mechbusters to fill our aero bays as training machines and a fast strike element, yet I'm not sure if they need an airfield to work, unable to launch from a dropship. Any alternatives that come to mind (which can be represented with models on the tabletop)?

[AlphaMirage]

You have to answer a few really big questions first since you are Mercs.

Can you make money as an RCT? Is there demand for a hirable RCT in the 3040s?

RCTs are really expensive to build, maintain, and operate. They need bases, are hard to command, transport, and much to large for most Merc missions while needing a continuous stream of new hires and gear. This adds a huge amount of overhead into a really tight niche market in the IS particularly pre-REVIVAL.

Ultimately you will be basically either made House troops or split apart in more marketable sub-commands.

Now if your Commander happens to be a noble (at least a Count) or interested in such a thing you could do this. That would actually be a fun campaign but not a Merc campaign you'd basically be House troops with limited supplies due to transport restrictions rather than cash.

Secondly, Do you need everything Combat Ready Day 1 of Operations?

RCTs are huge organizations and most planetary militias are heavily dispersed. You don't need every unit ready to deploy immediately because the defenders cannot mass against you immediately. If you carry units as Cargo you use a breaching force (The Mechs typically) to secure a Starport.

At this Starport you land a freighter filled with tanks and infantry. Some of these particularly the infantry just need to step off the ramp and they are good to go. If your Mechs can hold long enough you ready the tanks and conventional aircraft. This will transition you to a more conventional (in the 21st century sense) attack force that would match most planetary defenders which are principally armor and infantry as well.

Mechs become Spec Ops and hostile environment troops. You send them where tanks cannot go and support them with Air or Hovercraft.

This would dramatically reduce your dropship overhead as you can definitely load a Regiment (or several) of Tanks on a Mule with plenty of room to spare for logistical support in both Cargo and Personnel. It will just take them several days to be fully deployed (and reloaded if the tides turn against you).

[Colt Ward]

Organization-

IMO it depends on what you want it to do . . . FREX, after my mercs ended up being the heavyweights for a rebellion in the Chaos March and having to fight in a city, I learned my infantry assets were woefully inadequate for providing even visual observation through a city let alone having combat strength on the spot.  Further, offensive forces seem to use a odd number of sub-units while garrison/defensive units seem to use a defensive number of sub-units.  A maneuver offensive usually has a 2 up & 1 back for movement to contact which gives you options . . . the 2 make contact and fix the enemy formation . . . if they can split the enemy line, great, the 3rd splits up the middle and then turns left or right to roll up that side.  Or if they cannot split, the 3rd goes left or right to flank.  Or . . . well, there are a lot of options.

For garrison/defense, being able to break a area up into quadrants seems to work better for responsiveness to outbreaks.  You are going to have better times to most places in the area of responsibility for a square shaped space than a triangle shaped space.  I also like my infantry platoons to be 44 men, so they are stronger than regular IS ones though typically broken up into 10 man squads with a 4 man command element.  If not broken into squads, they become 22-man table top rules 'platoons' that work together.

Since you are mercs, you do not have to abide the typical Inner Sphere strictures- especially when you get paid by what you can field, not necessarily by a IS designated force size.  Since you already expressed a fondness for spreadsheets . . . I tend to list out everything for a force I am creating, to include stuff not usually shown by FMs- I WANT to include the support, supply and admin structures since I will creatively use them from time to time.  FREX, administratively my supply & ammo sections are listed as green 'foot platoons' with 13 or 14 trucks going with the ideal of a driver & assistant driver . . . which does not always work out, or sometimes if there is a surge to transport supplies it could be a single driver for a short duration.  A raid on a ammo or armor factory, the truck drivers go into the target zone riding in a pair of APCs or VTOL . . . and then take out as many trucks as possible, loaded up with whatever is on site.  Race back to the DZ to load them on the dropship, and dust off.

But there is no reason you cannot have 4 lance companies or 5 company battalions (3 maneuver, a weapons/fire support company, and a HQ company of a command lance & 2 recon lances).  In fact, a 5 company mech battalion can be expanded into a regimental combined arms force easier than splitting off multiple BNs IMO.  Basically each company becomes cadre for a expansion in this manner . . .

Phase 1- Each company is actually 2 lances, you have 5 'companies which is 40 mechs.  Technically you are a bit over 'normal' battalion strength.  Hope for good salvage numbers.

Phase 2- Each company becomes 3 lances, with the MVP for each light company becoming the 3rd lance commander.  This brings you up to 60 mechs, which is a bit short of 2 normal battalions.

Phase 3-  Each company except HQ again expands, becoming 4 lances.  This is now 76 mechs, which is over 2 BNs of strength.  If you have integrated infantry, armor, artillery and either VTOL or CF support by this point you really should be able to accept contracts for pure mech regiments because your combat power will be equivalent.

Phase 4-  Each company now becomes light battalions, with at least 4 lances broken down into 2 companies of 2 lances plus armor & infantry support with artillery/VTOL/CF support a regimental level asset.  Roughly each light maneuver battalion has 2 mech companies of 2 lances, a reinforced armor company of 2 tank lances & a mechanized infantry 'lance' (2 ISV/ISF & 2 infantry platoon).  The weapons company becomes IMO either a fire support or assault (role) battalion, either you stuff it with your Longbows, Archers, Jagermechs, LRM Carriers, Sturmfeur, etc or you put stuff in it you want to break heavily defended positions.  The HQ company splits off your mixed recon company, one or two mech lances and similar vehicle lances with some infantry mixed in to be dismounts.

Phase 4 has you making up the mech strength with more conventional assets, but still competing at that level.  I think the way the BTU setting is, you can recruit in Dispossessed as back up pilots who get stick time doing things like routine patrols- think boomer's Blue & Gold crews- who also pilot your support element's IndiMechs, like LoaderMechs for the supply elements or ConstructionMech & ForestryMechs for any engineer force you field.  My mercs had a armed LoaderMech & ConstructionMech as part of the reinforced engineer platoon, piloted by apprentice (wannabe) mechwarriors.  Gives me two ready replacements who are at least competent pilots even if they are not up to the gunnery skill of my veteran pilots.

Dropships-
I think you need to put the Overlord back to being a mostly mech carrier . . . vehicles can be brought along as cargo and you can modify a cargo carrier (Jumbo is the go to choice here) to have some vehicle bays and infantry bays for vehicle crews whose vehicle is moving as cargo along with your infantry.  Your vehicle bays should IMO go to VTOLs, artillery, and recon assets.  Maybe some AA vehicles to cover the DZ.  I would definitely look to exchange the aerodynes for a spheriods, just so you can operate them together easier.

Keep in mind, we get lots of fluff about Overlords, Unions, and the other common dropships to be modified over the decades to fit various types of combined arms forces.  Odds are you will not be able to find one exactly like you want, but you might be able to get close.

Aerofighters-

Easiest way to prevent your force from taking the field is to greet them with ASF if you have none.  Sort of comes down to, have you played any aero?  If yes, then you know what maybe needed.  If not, or no interest to actually track all of the aero on table top complications, you can use the battlefield support abstract rules and IMO, use the strategic combat game as a option to run your aero battles to break into orbit/land.

[dgorsman]

Finding an Excalibur on the open market isn't very likely.  Given the blow-up of force sizes in the era, any current and projected production would be spoken for by state forces for the foreseeable future.  The best way for a mercenary force to get their hands on one (and maybe just one) would be to work for one of the major state governments, such as the leader of the Capellan March or Donegal Province, and include delivery of such as one of the contract terms.

Infantry carriers are hampered by being spec'd for foot platoons; if you have anything heavier, such as mechanized infantry, they carry far fewer units.  As mentioned up-thread consider packing equipment as cargo (especially when transitioning to a garrison assignment).  Fly the infantry in as foot platoons using a mix of conventional carriers and passenger ships such as the Monarch.  Having a few Intruders is useful for marines/'kick in the door' infantry.

One point about 'super sizing' - the force will usually end up operating as multiple independent groups rather than a single coherent force.  Consider existing forces of that size, such as Wolf's Dragoons and 12th Vegan Rangers - they almost never operate together.  Instead they are split up into regiment-sized sized packages for garrison jobs and smaller for offensive work outside of planetary assaults.  That means a few large DropShips and lots of medium-sized ones to support the multiple smaller deployments, with the garrison jobs having a lower share as they don't require as much mobility.

[Doc Swift]

Before adding new units, I'd buy extra supplies. Seriously, buy all the armor you can. I would clear out Outreach before taking contracts with the Hilltoppers. All the cargo space on my DropShips was stuffed with spare armor.

[CVB]

One point about 'super sizing' - the force will usually end up operating as multiple independent groups rather than a single coherent force.  Consider existing forces of that size, such as Wolf's Dragoons and 12th Vegan Rangers - they almost never operate together.  Instead they are split up into regiment-sized sized packages for garrison jobs and smaller for offensive work outside of planetary assaults.

This will actually be beneficial, as most merc units don't have the possibilities of a state or planetary government to raise money and recruits via taxes and the draft and so have to be much more risk aware about losses. It is very easy for a merc unit to enter a death spiral of losses -> diminished capabilities -> riskier or less lucrative contracts ->more losses or less income -> even more diminished capabilities.
Splitting up the unit over several contracts will help manage risks and stabilize cashflow.

Smaller subunits will also be easier to play shell games with, to bill necessary tasks on an(other) employer twice. For example, a company trains in preparation for a planned commando raid while at the same time fulfilling a contract training another employer's militia (for extra deviousness, use the militia as OPFOR under the pretext of teaching them how to defend against a raid  8) ), drawing pay from the garrison planet AND the client who hired them for the upcoming raid as necessary training expenses. If you feel extra lucky, bill the original raid client a third time for having provided a taylor-mode OPFOR.
Later exchange the instruction personnel  by two other companies that just returned from an assault mission with 50% losses, showing the two least damaged half companies to the client, still in pay, while at the same time rebuilding and integrating the most damaged lances.
Or piggyback a subunit going in the same direction on an employer-provided jumpship and bill transportation costs for the secondary unit's employer.

[Colt Ward]

One other thing to think about . . . your average limeslime can also be cross training to become a tanker.

I had a whole merc regiment that was a backdrop filler going back to the 3SW, they were all trained mechwarriors who were Dispossessed who instead drove tanks.  Part of their contracts was where members of the mercs would get 'credit' for participating in the kill of a mech.  Eventually a warrior who established enough credit could claim one of the mechs the mercs salvaged as his new personal mech and would finish out their contract with the unit as part of their supporting mech force- most of the fighting was done by armor.  They were fluffed as the newly re-established mechwarriors generally filling out their contract and moving on, either back to try to reclaim their former familial status since they again have a mech or moving on to a real mech merc unit.  They had a few other great story bits taken from history and fiction.

[CVB]

That's a great idea, much more believable as a motivation than the hordes of rebellious noble brats with their personal mechs who populate so many merc companies. I guess I have to steal pay hommage to that idea!  :)

[idea weenie]

For me if you are going for an RCT, then you should be dropping the Leopard and replacing it with something a bit larger.  If you are running an RCT, then Lance-level work should be a minor detail.  Maybe change it to a Leopard CV, so it carries 6 ASF instead of 2 ASF and 4 Mechs?

Some other options to replace the Leopard:
Intruder - Spheroid Dropship, but has the same 4/6 accel of the Leopard, carries 2 ASF, 4 platoons of infantry, and 1100 tons of cargo (of which you can repurpose 1050 tons of it to 7 Mech Bays).

Drost IIA - Aerodyne, 5/8 accel, one cargo bay has 1000 tons cargo capacity plus 5 platoons of infantry, the other can be modified for 8 Battlemechs and still carry another 5 platoons of infantry.  Sacrifice some cargo capacity in the first bay for some ASF capacity?  Its BV is about the same as a Leopard, so it might not be as heavily armored.

If you really want to have ASF superiority and it is possible, go for a Vengeance to carry 40 ASF.  You might be able to pull out a few of the ASF bays and replace them with Mech Bays if you really wanted to.


To me, Mercs should specialize in capabilities.  A unit that uses Leopards for commando-type operations would tend to have a smaller force where it could only perform 4 commando-type operations max.  This would be roughly 16 Mechs total.  An RCT would be used for medium-scale defense and offense operations, where an attached Commando unit would be part of the overall RCT, rather than an independent command (at that point you might as well spin off the commandos to their own unit).

Aerofighters-

Easiest way to prevent your force from taking the field is to greet them with ASF if you have none.  Sort of comes down to, have you played any aero?  If yes, then you know what maybe needed.  If not, or no interest to actually track all of the aero on table top complications, you can use the battlefield support abstract rules and IMO, use the strategic combat game as a option to run your aero battles to break into orbit/land.

Instead of keeping track of aerospace fighter engagements, how about just loading up a bunch of ASF in Bays, totaling their BV (including the pilot P/G modifiers), and subtracting that from the local planet's Aerospace BV?  This would represent the RCT's ASF force engaging the opponent's ASF, and the better force steadily winning.  No need to keep track of the Aerospace duel itself, just compare the numbers and let the GM determine the results to see if your forces triumph over the opponent, or if the opponent is able to hold off or even defeat your ASF.

[Colt Ward]

DroST also has 2 small craft bays.

[guardiandashi]

with the dispossessed mechwarriors running as tank crew, and the tank crew/truck driver thiefs on a raid concept I think I was reading a novel where that was the general idea.  the multi billing IE getting paid 2-3 times for the same job...

as far as dropships unless you have the aerospace to run a vengeance (I would put the cutoff as ~1/2 full after your other fighter bays are full) I wouldn't bother as I don't think they can actually land.

if I remember right there were at least 3? dropships that were really intended as infantry/vehicle carriers.

someone was pointing out that an overlord is really intended as a mech carrier.

what I would do is setup your dropships as a couple "assault" carriers like a leopard, union or overlord that come in and secure the LZ.  then you have some cargo carriers where some units (typically a lance or company sized force) in in bays ready for immediate deployment/ fighting withdrawal if needed, but at least 50-75 percent of the load is "cargo" and takes some time to load/unload.

[Arkansas Warrior]

It looks like you've already got a very overstrength battalion.  I'd reorganize into two battalions, as follows:


1st Battalion (Mechs)
HQ Company
Condor's Nest Lance
Hallur's Heavy Battle Lance


Scorpion Company
Haynaba's Heavy Fire Lance
Keane's Assault Battle Lance
Heer's Fire Lance


Jackal Company
Norwood's Heavy Battle Lance
Evans Medium Striker Lance
Kelly's Recon Lance


Air Squadron
Condor's Nest Air Lance
Twin Pincer Air Lance
DropShip Group




2nd Battalion (Conventional)
HQ
Moroder's Artillery Platoon


Fire Company
Barnhill's Heavy Fire Platoon
Schwinn's Fire Support platoon
135th Fire Platoon


Scarab Company
132nd Heavy Battle Platoon
133rd Battle Platoon
134th Battle Platoon
125th Heavy Battle Platoon


Cobra Company
142nd Support Platoon
143rd Medium Fire Platoon
144th Light Battle Platoon


146th Mechanized Infantry Company
1461st Jump Infantry Platoon
1462nd Mechanized Infantry Platoon
1463rd Mechanized Infantry Platoon
145th Light Scout Platoon


Cavalry Company
114th Medium Hover Cavalry Platoon
115th Medium Hover Cavalry Platoon
124th Light VTOL Lance


That already gives you 5 companies in the conventional battalion, you might even move one of them (the infantry, maybe?) to 1st battalion.  But anyway, you're set up nicely to split the conventional battalion into two, maybe splitting off the Infantry and cavalry?  Medium-term, I'd be trying to build out my infantry if you want to build toward an RCT.  You're really short on that end.  Rearrange individual platoons as you like, not sure who you'd actually want to put in charge of you 2nd battalion, or which mech lance you'd want in HQ with the command lance, I just picked up the one that wouldn't break up an existing company to make my job easier.

[RifleMech]

I don't think you mentioned the unit's dependents. Could the units that won't fit for deployment stay behind to protect the dependents and travel as cargo, only when the entire unit, including dependents, moves from base to base?  Not only would your dependents have protection but the next generation and new recruits would have units to train on. It would also allow you to rotate some units back for R&R while bringing units up to get experience.

If you're dependents travel with the unit from base to base, how do they get there? You might want a dropship that can handle military and civilian transport rather than a pure military transport. It would move the dependents safely, could be used to bring the "Home Guard" up as reinforcements, and could be rented out for extra income.
 

[Jayof9s]

One of my favorite units to GM a campaign for was setup as basically a Light RCT (growing from a single lance initially). A command lance + company of mechs (heavy/assault lance for command / fire support, two striker lances that were fast mediums/heavies, and a recon lance of fast lights/mediums). They were backed by a battalion of armor (heavy/assault company, indirect fire support company, and fast strike VTOL company), a squadron of fighters, and another 2-3 battalions of infantry.

The mechs did most of the heavy lifting, with the armor usually acting in defensive actions to hold a landing zone after the mechs had secured it (excluding the VTOLs, which deployed in support of the mechs - usually for long range sniping/fire support). Infantry were either for SpecOps type missions or just general garrison and close-in defense, with some field gunners to give them a punch when they did need to help the armor battalion with securing an objective.

It was nice to be able to grow the unit in a way that didn't necessitate running every mission with a full battalion+ on the field but gave so many options for ways to deploy and fights that could come up.

[Fortyone]

If you really want to have ASF superiority and it is possible, go for a Vengeance to carry 40 ASF.  You might be able to pull out a few of the ASF bays and replace them with Mech Bays if you really wanted to.

The Vengeance can't operate in atmosphere so unless you're gonna send those mechs up against dropships in space, you'd probably be better served going with small craft bays and berths for some marine boarding parties. But that would probably be a short lived experience without also investing in some pocket warships since someone is likely to roll up with more aerospace than you and commandeer that ship.

To the main topic, a segment I call Foryone's Fun with Force Organization.

Now it seems like you have a reasonable, traditional setup, but I like irrational and untraditional so I'm going to propose a restructure. We're scrapping your entire ground organizational scheme and rebuilding with Augmented Lances and Augmented Armor Lances. Oh and were going with 5 lance companies so you're basically a company and a half now. So show that Capellan pride.

By the time you get to a 5 company battalion, you're as big as most regiments and when you get to regiment strength you're about 50% of Task Force Serpent.

In seriousness, I second the expansion of infantry elements as well as ASF. Those would be my priority, as well as scooping up another artillery lance. Maybe get this jump infantry some transport vtols but your options are kinda limited in 3045.

[2ndAcr]

 Closer to 30% of Task Force Serpent. IIRC, TF Serpent had over 1,000 Battlemechs alone spread over 8 or 9 Regiments and several Battalion sized units.

 Just saying.

[Fortyone]

Closer to 30% of Task Force Serpent. IIRC, TF Serpent had over 1,000 Battlemechs alone spread over 8 or 9 Regiments and several Battalion sized units.

 Just saying.

Depends on how many battalions you have in a regiment. Considering your "battalion" would be just shy of a traditional regiment, a 5 battalion regiment could be ~500 and 100 vees without counting support detachments.

Max out your support and you would be closer to 650 mechs and 400 vees. That's one single regiment using the max values in Campaign Operations.

[Inkvine]

Wow, that's a lot of material to read and reply to. Talk about a lively discussion, holy macaroni.

First, I fixed the link in the opening post - I also added the thread I'm referring to to my signature now. Sorry about the mess.

To answer some questions/provide more clarification:

I'm shooting for a regiment/reinforced regiment as the intended maximum, the RCT approach I detailed was mostly referring to an example for unit composition and expansion priorities.

That being said, I've been talking to someone in my circle with a lot of military experience, and the consensus to focus on expanding infantry and ASF assets seems to be very sound. ASF are instrumental in ensuring that dropships actually land, and one can't always count on employer's help, while infantry is able to operate discreetly and efficiently, especially in urban areas. Fitting, as for the next few years, our main theatre of (defensive) operations is going to be within the boundaries of the FRR. Our personnel roster has received a lot of influx from the FRR, we even have a few ex 1st Tyr members in here, so it is fair to  the deployment and contract go way beyond business protocol as our personal ties to the region are particularly strong. That being said, we're very much an ex-house unit, hailing from the Third Donegal Guards. We started out as a fake merc company, and have only recently really cut the umbilical cord to the LCAF. While we had some setbacks, it is only now that we'll see whether we can weather the storms which loom on the horizon and stand the test of time as a merc company that can stay afloat, or survive even, as the second campaign is very likely going to go against the Clans...yikes.

When it comes to negotiations and contract shenanigans, I'd rather not describe McKenna as particularly shrewd or ruthless. His game works because he's well connected and has good reputation with a clean track record to boot, landing him more favorable deals by default. This is backed by RPG stats, I just didn't bother in adding those at the moment. Overall, it's a comfortable way to work, and it makes some sense while being deployed here due to the clout and established connections. It should be noted however that the FRR isn't just Månsdottir and his ex-Tyr acquaintances, on the contrary. I fully expect bureaucracy and arbitrary regulations bogging the company down even when there is an immediate call for action, as mercs are described as having a hard time in these parts.

Now on to some of the big questions!

Can you make money from being a hireable RCT in the 40s? I think the question is not of such immediate urgency. The unit has just completed a phase of expansion and training, consolidated its assets etc. Action will follow, testing if concepts are fireproof and solid enough - if things keep going smoothly (which I don't really expect as the opposition will be fierce and unusual) I can see them making the leap just before the hammer drops around 3049-50 when the northern border gets lit up. During the invasion? Honestly, I find it very likely to find more than enough work, though considerably more hazardous due to the Clans being incredibly scary. That being said, the size of an RCT seems daunting to command, even to GM. I'd prefer to keep the unit in style of an RCT, without the bulk associated with it - perhaps working with a single regiment representing the 'glory days' of the unit, if they don't implode beforehand or become absorbed into Clan/House units due to unfortunate series of events. In short I can only reiterate, I'm looking more for a pattern to use for expansion, not neccessarily the actual size of an RCT.

Does everything need to be deployed day 1 / in a hotdrop? No, I don't think so. Do I think using 'Mechs as the breaching force is a sound idea? Absolutely. Do I think they should get combined arms backup? Yes.

Now keep in mind that I'm neither a military person nor an avid reader of military fiction. I'm just a budding artist who likes to paint little 'Mechs and tanks and sometimes write about stuff. Getting into the mindset of in-character military personnel does not come naturally to me, as I'm not even neccessarily familiar with the basics of modern military doctrine, let alone due procedure in BT. Now that the layman's disclaimer is out of the way, I'll give it a go. Following things seem prudent to me:

- Try to have your own dropships.
- Your dropships are fragile (they mostly are, since the beefier assault ones are in high demand), protect them with ASF support.
- Once they land, use 'Mechs to secure the landing zone and mop up immediate resistance.
- Use foot/mechanized/motorized infantry to fan out and establish a net of intel/control zones quickly so you have time to get a heads up once significant enemy reinforcements show up. Deploy limited armor assets which are ready to go to give some punch to the grunts just in case. (VTOLs seem very good for supporting or clearing infantry, providing intel etc - it's just a huge shame how incredibly limited the range is early on, as almost all of them are post-invasion designs)
- Deploy artillery to take out defensive positions or enemy batteries (if aero can't take care of it properly or safely secure air superiority)
- Slow-deploy armor assets as needed as backup for 'Mechs and infantry.

So the notion of using cargo space for the bulk of the heavier assets seems to be a good one - I will keep it in mind and look for a way to execute it. It also reinforces the notion of keeping the Overlord as it is, as a carrier for 'Mech assets, even for the future regiment. The idea behind modifying it was merely to have the entire HQ unit deploy from one ship after the upscaling has been done, artillery + heavy tank lance and all. But Arkansas Warrior's suggestion seems to be a better way to go about it, reorganizing the command chain and also not putting all eggs in one basket. Luckily enough, the way the unit has evolved, it was always built with flexibility of lances and command chains in mind - ex-Steiner elites and veterans who have fought together for a decade have been dispersed across the unit to ensure that elements can always work together, in various deployment patterns.

The Dispossessed -> Tankers -> possibly Mechwarriors idea has occurred to me before, and I find it definitely worth entertaining. It's funny to see it resurface again from a different perspective.

When it comes to infantry, I can see making overstrength platoons be worthwhile, although I have no experience of playing them on the tabletop as of yet since we only started to get into vehicles. Seeing how invaluable they are, I'll definitely go down the rabbit hole in this regard. For now I need to wrap my head around the possibilities they entail, what transportation they can get, what tactical usage they can have, or what kind of shift in support or transportation they neccessitate.

I'll definitely take a closer look at the dropships again. The concern of not being able to find a particular one is well warranted, even with the commander being well-connected, having decent negotiation skills and having good reputation. It's not neccessarily just about finding it either, there might simply be none for sale or the demand so high that we don't have the cash to outbid a large defense contractor or lordship for example. Some suggestions that have been made (with percentages to find them on a single roll):

Drost - not listed, I'll assume it's similar to the Intruder (42%)
Excalibur - 28%
Intruder - 42%
Jumbo - not listed, Mule is the more up to date version
Monarch - 58%
Mule - 72%
Vengeance - 17% (ouch)

One of the dedicated infantry (and mechanized infantry) carriers seem to be the Condor, which seems ubiquitous and easy to find. (72%) The Seeker (42%) carries 40 light vehicles + 4 infantry platoons. The good old Union (58%) has a lot of variants and is easy to retool and resupply.

That being said, the reason I intend to keep the Leopard around is because it is one of the only dropships that can sit on the tabletop in 'Mech scale. An alternative would be the MW:Dark Age Aurora, which is just flat out gorgeous (and fairly modular). Having such a small craft around might not neccessarily be an economically sound decision, but having the option of fielding such a centerpiece is still something I can't disregard completely. That being said, some very general framework could be:

+Spearhead+
- Overlord -> (36 'Mechs)<6 ASF>
- Union CV -> <12 ASF>
- Seeker -> (40 Light Vehicles)[4 Infantry Platoons]
- 2-3x Intruder -> <4-6 ASF> [8-12 Infantry Platoons]

+Safe+
- Mule(s) {packed heavy assets + chillin' infantry}

These dropships are all fairly easy to get, all spheroid aswell. I can try and plug in an Excalibur if I'm feeling lucky, although deploying 90 Heavy Vehicles seems to be an overkill for the size of the unit I'm going for. I'll need to fiddle around with unit compositions and possible configurations in a spreadsheet to see what is reasonable, with an alternative aerodyne configuration aswell.

Final note: I haven't played AeroTech, and I'm not yet sure if I want to. I own 2 Chippewas, 2 Slayers and 2 Shilones though, and 4 of these are registered in the roster. The Shilone pilots are even scheduled to receive a character spotlight in the future!

Sorry if I missed something, lots of answers here to keep track of. I could go into more depth when it comes to the splitting and reorganizing part of course - I'll have to revisit my sheets first though.

[AlphaMirage]

Those are all sound decisions. Check out my 31st century guide to conventional warfare in the fan fic section for your vehicles. There is also the Second Star League guide to Warships (link below) that has a bunch of useful material for Aerospace and transporting troops to the ground

[Colt Ward]

The Jumbo and DroST are from later books than FM Mercs(R), FM Mercs Sups, and FM Mercs Update.  Both are OLD classes . . . the Drost has clones and was in production for a long time.  It should be pretty available, except the gunship version.  Knowing the holes and lack of detail in dropship availability TPTB added more classes for the history of the Inner Sphere . . . we got Jumbos (Mule competitor), DroST IIa (Intruder? precursor), Dictator (Overlord precursor), Black Eagle (Union precursor, pre-boom even), Danais (2720s de-mil'd Union design for cargo), and a cooled liquid carrier in the Aquaduct that are all still present in your time frame.  The Black Eagle would be extremely rare/oddity, but not outright non-existant like the Colossus (spheriod RCT support- 1 BN mechs, 2 BN heavy armor, & infantry) which the Excalibur replaced, only one your PCs might have heard of is the one Snord's Irregulars salvaged Star League materials from in the Lyran Commonwealth in 3024 . . . Lyrans then went and scavenged from the ship.  Never spelled out, you also have the Clippership V which is probably a 6400t spheriod and similar to the Czar which was a armor battalion carrier by the Succession Wars when not de-mil'd as a civie cargo carrier.  Last mention would be the original mech carrier, the Manatee which is still be produced on at least one world by your timeframe.  A spheriod that carries a single lance though lacks armor & defense weaponry of more modern designs, on the plus size it has reall cargo space to support the mechs- 396 tons- which is more than the classic designs.  Personally, my headcanon takes MW4's Hrothgar spheriod dropship as a clone/knockoff of the Manatee like we get descriptions of the DroST IIa . . . just a specialized update, which is why it has more/better weapons and probably armor than the Manatee.  Since some of the Hrothgars in MW4 also carry vehicles, it should be noted that you can squeeze it into being a light armor/mechanized company carrier- 12 light vehicle bays and 1 or 2 infantry platoons easily fit while still letting you have most of that cargo space.

Jumbo is better than the Mule- hands down- when it comes to the things that track in BT.  More cargo space, thicker armor shell, and 2 Small Craft bays (aka, they can carry a pair of fighters) but fewer guns- which is why it has SC/ASF.  Considering you do not want your cargo transports shooting, I am willing to accept the disadvantage in adding one to my fleet.  Honestly, basic rule of thumb for DS available to mercs- you have the spectrum from assault/PWS/large mech transport is going to be hard to get . . . to pure cargo carriers which are not as in demand, thus easier to find on the market.

One final note about dropships . . . the most valuable commodity in BTU- especially pre-Clan Invasion- is the droppship collar.  The dropship collar is the single thing limiting interstellar travel when most JS outside of military hands have 3 collars or less.  Keep that in mind when you are planning your transport plans . . . you are not going to be able to whistle up a Monolith, Leviathan (8 collars, nearly extinct), Libertys (also nearly extinct), or even the more common Star Lords.  You are going to have to pay for Invaders, Merchants, Tramps and the other smaller carriers of 3, 2 or 1 collars.  Even the AFFC ships most of the RCTs as cargo . . . the mech regiment, a armor regiment, and some infantry being what is able to go right out the door . . . with their ASF loaded in carriers to escort the whole formation in.  The remaining 2-4 armor regiments, heavier infantry components, and all of their support elements are loaded in Mammoths, Jumbos, and other large cargo carriers to optimize their dropship collar use.

[CVB]

Last mention would be the original mech carrier, the Manatee which is still be produced on at least one world by your timeframe.

Can you tell more, who, where, source? Thank you!

[Colt Ward]

Sarna cites Objectives: Periphery, p31

As of 3080, Bordello Military Goods Inc on/in (?) Antwerp.

Honestly, it makes a good ship to be kicking around out in the Periphery pre-Invasion with six triple Large Laser mounts and a dual Med Laser mount on each 'angle'- which I take to be fore and aft sides.  It would be enough to keep pirate boarding craft at bay with decent cargo space and a crew of 5.  It should be noted the mech bays were designed in before the mech drop pod was invented.

As I said, given the limited weapons, being a Spheriod, and carrying just a lance of mechs it sort of matches up with MW4's Hrothgar.  With the DroST IIa's fluff of manufacturers making licensed copies under their own name or just plain knock offs which were still in production until the fall of the Star League IIRC, the Manatee having a updated clone would not be a stretch.  Especially since the Hrothgar had large lasers as part of it's weapons load . . .

[CVB]

Thanks. Now I know why I disregarded it - located in the Deep Periphery and not sure if it was a in production in the SW and Clan Invasion eras.

[Colt Ward]

I would say it probably was, and as things from the IS drift out to the Umayyd/Castilleans, things from there drift in.  Like I said, it is a good ship to kick around the Periphery or even into the IS in as a independent trader.

[Inkvine]

After some spreadsheeting and fiddling around this is the expansion draft I came up with for an ideal expansion scenario (with some wiggling room, names are subject to change obviously):

HQ
Overlord Command Variant - (32 'Mechs, 6 ASF)

Harrier High Guard

McKenna's Augmented Command Company
McKenna's Command Lance - Assault
Jansen's Assault Battle Lance - Assault
Hallúr's Heavy Battle Lance - Heavy
Luttinen's Fire Support Lance - Heavy
Kerry's Artillery Lance - Heavy

Condor's Nest Air Wing - Heavy
      2x Chippewa
      2x Slayer
      2x Shilone

MECH BATTALION
Overlord - (36 'Mechs, 6 ASF)

Scorpion Company
Haynaba's Augmented Fire Lance
      2x Shilone
Alvarez' Heavy Fire Support Lance - Heavy
Heer's Medium Fire Lance - Medium

Sphinx Company
Keane's Augmented Assault Battle Lance - Assault
      2x Slayer
Mauss' Assault Battle Lance - Assault
Neva's Heavy Battle Lance - Heavy

Jackal Company
Norwood's Augmented Heavy Battle Lance - Heavy
      2x Slayer
Evans' Medium Striker Lance - Medium
Kelly's Light Recon Lance - Light


HEAVY ARMOR BATTALION [Slow Deployment]
Jumbo (Cargo)

Scarab Reinforced Company
Barnhill's Fire Platoon - Heavy
Schwinn's Fire Platoon - Assault
Fire Platoon - Assault
      4x Schrek/Alacorn VI
AA Fire Platoon - Assault
      4x Partisan

Rhino Reinforced Company
Battle Platoon - Heavy
      4x MBT (range)
Battle Platoon - Heavy
      4x MBT (range)
Battle Platoon - Heavy
      4x MBT (range)
Battle Platoon - Heavy
      4x MBT (range)
Battle Platoon - Heavy
      4x MBT (range)

Cobra Company
Artillery Platoon - Assault
      4x Mobile Long Tom
Artillery Platoon - Heavy
      4x Ballista
Artillery Platoon - Heavy
      4x Ballista/Arrow IV

Gator Company
Fire Platoon - Heavy
      4x LRM Carrier
Fire Platoon - Heavy
      4x LRM Carrier
Fire Platoon - Heavy
      4x Partisan (?)

Support Platoon
Support Platoon
Support Platoon

Elephant Reinforced Company
Battle Platoon - Assault
      4x Behemoth/Ontos
Battle Platoon - Assault
      4x Demolisher/Demolisher II
Battle Platoon - Assault
      4x Challenger X
Battle Platoon - Heavy
      4x Manticore (?)
Fire Platoon - Heavy
      4x SRM Carrier

LIGHT CAVALRY BATALLION
Seeker

Reinforced Cavalry Company
Hover Cavalry Platoon - Medium
      4x Condor
Hover Cavalry Platoon - Light
      4x Pegasus
Hover Cavalry Platoon - Light
      4x Pegasus
Hover Cavalry Platoon - Light
      4x Saladin
Hover Cavalry Platoon - Light
      4x Harasser
Hover Cavalry Platoon - Light
      4x Harasser

Reinforced Recon Company
VTOL Recon Platoon - Light
      4x Warrior H-7(?)
VTOL Recon Platoon - Light
      4x Warrior H-7(?)
VTOL Recon Platoon - Light
      4x Warrior H-7(?)
Scout Platoon - Light
      4x Darter

Motorized Infantry Company
Motorized Infantry Platoon
      4x Motorized Infantry Squad
Motorized Infantry Platoon
      4x Motorized Infantry Squad
Motorized Infantry Platoon
      4x Motorized Infantry Squad
Motorized Infantry Platoon
      4x Motorized Infantry Squad

Salvage Lance
Combat Engineer Lance
MASH Units

MECHANIZED INFANTRY BATALLION
Intruder (4 Infantry 2 ASF)

Air Superiority Lance
      2x Slayer

Mechanized Infantry Company
Mechanized Infantry Platoon (APC Tracked)
Mechanized Infantry Platoon  (APC Tracked)
Mechanized Infantry Platoon  (APC Tracked)
Mechanized Infantry Platoon (APC Wheeled)


AUGMENTED INFANTRY BATALLION
Intruder (4 Infantry 2 ASF)

Air Superiority Lance
      2x Slayer

Augmented Infantry Company
Jump Infantry Platoon
      4x Transport VTOL (?)
Jump Infantry Platoon
      4x Transport VTOL (?)
Jump Infantry Platoon
      4x Transport VTOL (?)
Battle Armor/Commando Platoon

Saving some space for supplies and spare parts, this configuration leaves 800t of free space on the Jumbo and 1000t on the Seeker.

My thoughts:

- I still feel short on infantry, but perhaps it is it possible to add another "sleeping" infantry battalion if possible with the leftover space.
- Use some of the leftover space for crew quarters to facilitate rotating personnel
- Luttinen's Fire Support Lance: missile boats (Longbow, Viking, Archer, Catapult etc.)
- Kerry's Artillery Lance should likely be Helepolis 'Mechs to provide early artillery support after disembarking (I love those models too)
- 'Mechs overall: gravitate towards heavy/assault, use combined arms for scouting and lighter combat
- VTOL considerations: Donar / Hawk Moth are the ones that immediately come to mind, not sure about the transport
- ASF: I went for strong, sturdy ASF - the Chippewas are old and should be upgraded ASAP
- MBT: I see multiple choices, perhaps a mix would be the best - Axel (cheap, sturdy firepower), SB Patton, Gauss Rommel, Manticore?
- Heavy Tanks: I'm not a huge fan of these (besides the Demolisher, which I love), the main idea is them being walking urban fortresses providing massive firepower to ambushes or just being a strong semi-mobile bunker for holding important chokepoints
- Infantry: I'm not sure if my choices make sense, as I have no experience with infantry - the composition of the individual MI platoons should likely be 3-1 with the last squad being troopers of some sort who can provide anti-vehicle / 'Mech capabilities.

[Colt Ward]

So here is the curve ball . . . the wind up . . . and pitch . . .

 . . . where are the techs going to be?  your supply vehicles, like tankers, and their drivers?

VTOLs-  Neither the Donar (Clan) or Hawk Moth will be available to you in the 3040s.  One is not deployed in the IS at that time, and the other has not been created.  For the 3040s VTOLs you are looking at Warriors, Pintos, Peregrines, Cavalrys, Ferrets, and a few others.  For vehicles the Alacorn, Challenger X, Darter, Silver Bullet Patton, and Gauss Rommel will be in the same boat.

For your infantry . . . this gets into a organization issue- they created abstract platoons that are dominated by their type of movement though you do not track their vehicles, the hover, motorized (wheeled), and tracked infantry platoons.  They carry heavier weapons and have some options for armor and are faster than the 'old' style infantry platoons.  Old infantry came in 2 flavors- foot & jump infantry . . . though I feel like I am missing another, but I never used it.  A foot infantry platoon had 28 men moved 1 while the jump infantry had 24 IIRC moving 3 and both were armed with rifle, infantry SRM, infantry LRM, MGs, Flamers.  Both of these could load up in the vehicles starting off with the heavy tracked/hover/wheeled APC . . . heavy b/c it could load the whole platoon which was the deployment size for standard battletech.  The 'regular' APCs were squad size, which was a advanced rule.

[CVB]

Some small additions: The missing infantry type is motorized (28 men platoons, 3MP). Jump Inf is 3*7 men. And infantry LRM are only available 3057 and later.

[Inkvine]

Woops.

In addition to the free cargo space I specified, I accidentally left off 3 "support" lances worth of equipment (that I'd love suggestions for), such as industrial 'Mechs, trucks etc. Little error on my part.

Advanced equipment such as Gauss-equipped units are considerations for later, should the unit survive the Clan Invasion. E.g.:
- Current MBT: Patton
- SoonTM MBT: Axel (local production)
- MBT Evolved: SB Patton/Gauss Rommel

The Darter seems to be a 1st SW scout vehicle (the only one I could find aside from the Swiftwind). I needed some light scout vehicle to represent the Fennek, and it seemed to be the closest fit in role and design.

When it comes to techs, I was under the impression that the dropships had enough capacity to house them - but now that you mention it, while this might be true for the Overlords, the Jumbo is a freighter and would likely need crew quarters installed in some way. There's a lot of space, but I haven't tried my hands at using a fixed system at DS modification - any suggestions on that front?

For the motorized infantry, I made a clown-car error when I put them in Darters. They should either be on trucks (which likely require bays of their own), jeeps, buggies, perhaps quads (bikes?) instead. The idea was to give the initial wave of foot infantry added mobility to deploy and establish control zones as the rest of them disembark.

I wasn't aware that mechanized infantry had to be assigned an APC in an extra slot unless it was a heavier, combat-capable version - I'm using light tracked/wheeled, since my minis are M113 and Fuchs APCs - the aforementioned units would fit the bill I thought. I haven't checked any numbers, but to continue the analogy, afair the M113 can carry 10-15 passengers (reinforced squad) while the Fuchs caps at 10. But maybe I misunderstand the question.

Overall I'm down to completely rework infantry down to the bone, since I have no experience with that topic whatsoever. I'd really like to add some sort of IFV that could be represented by Bradleys/Pumas on the tabletop (UAC/2 Vedette?).

[Colt Ward]

Not quite the point on the infantry . . .

You have two types- the more recent abstracted infantry that does not track their vehicles as separate items.  They get bikes, dune buggies, light trucks, etc for the mobility and to move/use heavier weapons.  It is abstract so you do not care what vehicles they use.

Then you have older style infantry- this is my using a Maxim hovercraft that loads and unloads a foot infantry (rifle) platoon as needed but can provide LRM support fire as needed.  Or my Karnov flies overhead and the Jump Infantry bail out to land in a hex as the Karnov retreats out of LOS.

The M113 would be considered a 'tracked APC' which is 10t vehicle IIRC and carry a squad along the paradigm listed above.  But squad rules, which takes advantage of hover/tracked/wheeled APCs, a Goblin, Ferret VTOL, and one other VTOL that just have a ton of cargo space.  A squad uses a ton cargo/infantry bay, a platoon uses 3 or 4 depending on type.  The abstracted infantry platoon is using things like the Spec Forces dune buggy or the old motorcycle w/sidecar you see from the Wermacht in WWII movies.

[Doc Swift]

I'm curious: are you using FM:Mercs (R) for this command? If so, what are your monthly expenses? The support costs (food, pay) for all those troopers makes me wince.

[Inkvine]

I'm curious: are you using FM:Mercs (R) for this command? If so, what are your monthly expenses? The support costs (food, pay) for all those troopers makes me wince.

Indeed I am. If I didn't goof up (which is very unlikely), the current reinforced Batallion is at around 800k/month I think, as for this one, I didn't dare to look yet... :D

As for the infantry, if I understand correctly, I do not need to specify the extra vehicle if I follow the abstract squad type unless it is something like a Maxim or a Blizzard. So say, 10 guys in dune buggies would be listed as "Motorized Infantry Squad (Wheeled)" However in the case of the Jump infantry, say I want to make them use Karnov UR VTOL to deploy with 4-6 Squads per VTOL, could I also simply note them as "Jump Infantry Platoon (VTOL)" ?

[Doc Swift]

That's kinda what I was thinking. That's... A LOT of cash!  ;D

[2ndAcr]

 I would use 4x Foot infantry platoons and mount them on 2x heavy APC with the other 2x vehicles for the platoon being Goblin for direct support. Or if hover, something else suitable to keep up but provide direct support fire etc. Or mount each platoon in Maxim Hover tanks. Czar Dropship is actually carrier an Infantry Regiment not an armor carrier. Carrier 36 platoons and 3600 tons supply. But not in current production. But some soldiered on well into the late 3060-70, so possible. Could also carry all your regiment support staff.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Czar

 Personal choice, but I streamline brutally, if possible, to cut down on maintenance, ammo, parts etc. By the Battalion if at all possible, when I am doing large commands.

[dgorsman]

A couple of minor naming notations.  Artillery is typically named 'batteries' (battery, single), while cavalry likes to use historical terms such as 'troop' (company level) and 'squadron' (battalion level).  See the 13th Stalking Horse and the Wild Geese entries in Mercs Supplemental II if you have it.

[Colt Ward]

FM Mercs (R) had the problem for contract pay out based on salaries rather than equipment involved.  It was early sourcebook nonsense that was never practical but kept alive until . . . Campaign Ops? corrected payment to realize employers are also hiring your TOOLS.

[RifleMech]

Indeed I am. If I didn't goof up (which is very unlikely), the current reinforced Batallion is at around 800k/month I think, as for this one, I didn't dare to look yet... :D

As for the infantry, if I understand correctly, I do not need to specify the extra vehicle if I follow the abstract squad type unless it is something like a Maxim or a Blizzard. So say, 10 guys in dune buggies would be listed as "Motorized Infantry Squad (Wheeled)" However in the case of the Jump infantry, say I want to make them use Karnov UR VTOL to deploy with 4-6 Squads per VTOL, could I also simply note them as "Jump Infantry Platoon (VTOL)" ?

I would note the Karnov or other transport. Mechanized and Motorized Infantry do abstract their vehicles but the larger transports, such as the Karnov, are still separate entities. They're not integral to the platoon as the platoon and vehicle can still move and fight separate from each other. So they should be noted.
 

[guardiandashi]

depending on what you are intending your infantry's role to be you might want to note what they are armed with
IE rifle, SRM, laser, etc.

obviously srm infantry is going to be more expensive to field/maintain than rifle ones
and laser costs more to setup but "ammunition" is a lot cheaper

[Inkvine]

I want to primarily employ conventional infantry (motorized/mechanized for better deployment speed) in a way that makes use of their in-setting flexibility. I don't see them as troops that take the brunt of the enemy's assault - that's what tanks and 'Mechs are for. Sweeping/defensive roles mostly, sometimes used as non-invasive light elements on the offense - provide correct intel, detect and neutralize ambushes and other threats (mines, planted explosives) to keep heavier elements safe, capturing objectives which need to be kept intact, capturing enemy personnel and equipment, establishing control zones, coordinate evacuation efforts, etc. On top of that, I'm thinking about generally outfitting them with one-shot weapons such as grenades, and have at least a number of troopers per platoon with them with decent anti-'Mech/Vehicle weapons like SRM launchers for opportunistic flanking attacks. I'd give them standard assault rifles per standard to keep initial costs low (ammo seems to be cheap).

Standard firearm: TK Assault Rifle
OS: Grenades (normal/inferno?)
Support: 2-shot SRM

From the description I see jump infantry as veteran troops meant primarily for deep strikes, outflanking, operating behind enemy lines and sometimes providing a hard to hit, hard to engage threat to heavy enemy elements, other infantry, anti-'Mech BA, etc. They circumvent bad terrain, they can get into position easily, they can use a Karnov to deploy from air - I assume they can plink away at 'Mech legs aswell.

Standard firearm: Laser Rifle (Blazer)

BA come in after the Clan Invasion. Their deployment capabilities should be similar to jump infantry (able to airdrop), I imagine they are elite troops used to swarm enemy 'Mechs and armor to try and tear them apart, or engage other BA for that matter, though I don't know too much about them outside the GDL context.

Suit: IS Standard/Gray Death Standard (no JJ, more firepower)
Weapon: Variable

How's this for a setup?

Other considerations:
- I'll note the Karnov as it should be. Thanks for the heads up.
- Isn't an artillery battery 8 or more pieces? Also, is 'Mech mounted/self-propelled artillery still noted as lances/platoons?
- I like the Czar, and will consider it for a future upscaling I think, though it asks the question: can you have too much infantry? ^^ As for the stronger transports, interestingly enough I own a Maxim and two Goblins, and think they are really solid choices for situations when added punch is neccessary.
- Yes, the contract system in FM: Mercs (revised) seems to work solely based on the salaries, which doesn't make sense at all to me. Any suggestions on how to incorporate the value of fielded assets in a streamlined fashion in lieu of Campaign Ops? (there must be a thread somewhere discussing this, I really can't wrap my head around it)

[Colt Ward]

Artillery Batteries depend on the strength of a weapon system . . . a Long Tom battery could be 3 guns, a platoon of gunners centered on each one.  A SP artillery battery could be 12 TAV (SW), which you can buy at this point, as those are Thumpers and integrated.

IF you guys decide to allow for squad rules, IMO that is where you infantry becomes useful . . . since you could define a 'squad' down to a 4 man LP/OP team that observes an area and if the mech fight rolls into that sector . . . well, now they can sweep in (using those abstracted infantry rules) on motorbikes to rescue your mechwarriors.

BA . . . the IS Standard uses JJ- and has more firepower than the GDL.  The GLD standard has more sensor support than the IS Standard . . . and the IS Standard has a greater source of parts b/c of commonality with Raiden and Cavaliers.  Unfortunately those two got dumbed down to just be brand named IS Standards instead of slight variations.

Contracts terms & payment . . .

Original Merc campaign material- before FM Merc (R) and going back who knows how far- based payment on salaries.  Which has never been the norm for any sort of contractor with real property involved in the business.  If you do not have it, I would highly recommend Campaign Ops PDF- or sourcebooks by PDF period, I take my Kindle to games and have literal book boxes worth of sourcebooks on it.  Total Warfare, TacOps, TechManual, Camp Ops, Interstellar Ops, Objectives FWL, the RecGuides I bought, ER3145, FM3145, Era Digest Dark Ages, Era Report 3052, lots of Turning Points, a few Spotlight Ons, lots of Touring the Stars, old WCSB, old scenario books, and more.  And SOME of that is PDF only releases.

But going back, Campaign Ops has things that will allow you to add depth to your PC's campaign . . . give units special abilities (hey these guys spent a year slugging it out in the abandoned ruins of a Star League megapolis- they get a urban combat specialty) along with pilots.  A PC accumulates a lot of experience?  Instead of making that veteran pilot get a elite piloting skill, they can get a SPA like terrain master or bonuses when cluster weapons (LBX & Missile) hit a target.

For your contract reasoning, I would have to look at it again but it finally shifted the paradigm to getting paid on the value of your assets.  So a foot infantry regiment (with no vehicles or dropship assets) will not get paid more than a mech regiment just because it has over 756 infantry officers & enlisted compared to 108 mechwarriors.  It actually values that besides that individual, you are bringing in assets that cost millions of c-bills each.

[RifleMech]

I want to primarily employ conventional infantry (motorized/mechanized for better deployment speed) in a way that makes use of their in-setting flexibility. I don't see them as troops that take the brunt of the enemy's assault - that's what tanks and 'Mechs are for. Sweeping/defensive roles mostly, sometimes used as non-invasive light elements on the offense - provide correct intel, detect and neutralize ambushes and other threats (mines, planted explosives) to keep heavier elements safe, capturing objectives which need to be kept intact, capturing enemy personnel and equipment, establishing control zones, coordinate evacuation efforts, etc. On top of that, I'm thinking about generally outfitting them with one-shot weapons such as grenades, and have at least a number of troopers per platoon with them with decent anti-'Mech/Vehicle weapons like SRM launchers for opportunistic flanking attacks. I'd give them standard assault rifles per standard to keep initial costs low (ammo seems to be cheap).
(snip)

With the Motorized Infantry you might want to list what type they are like you did with Mechanized Infantry. Although (APC Wheeled) is a little confusing. I'm guessing you mean that they ride around in abstracted Wheeled APCs, not that they're Mechanized Infantry with an attached Wheeled APC.

If your unit has the money you might mix the Motorized/Mechanized vehicles a bit. Hover for speed and water crossing. They'd be the scouts. Wheeled for roads and cities. They're your main forces. Tracked to go where the other two can't and carry heavier weapons.

Out of curiosity, I was wondering if you'd thought about using any of the other infantry types; Armored, Field Gun/Field Artillery, Beast Mounted, VTOL Infantry, K-9, Specialized and Xenoplanetary? They do add cost and weight but their advantages can be worth it.

For BA, personally, initially I'd go with Sloths, and maybe Infiltrators. They're not perfect but they're better than nothing and would give your troops experience using BA. With everyone wanting the newer BA they could be easier to obtain and may also cost less as they're less desired and/or used. Otherwise, I'd go with IS Standard as they'd be more available. Any other types would either be captured, salvaged or negotiated for with the Employer as part of their payment.

[DOC_Agren]

ASF:  I would like to throw out a few more options:
Sabre (Interceptor/Recon Birds) made everywhere [basicly the AK of Aerospace fighters. so you can pick up replacement parts anywhere]
Stingray or Eagle (Interceptors)
Thunderbird (Kill other people Dropships)

Slayers if you can get them get the R model, you have the fuel for days compared to everyone else
and if can't get the R swap the AC and ammo for PPC and heat sinks for ammo independance

[Inkvine]

For your contract reasoning, I would have to look at it again but it finally shifted the paradigm to getting paid on the value of your assets.  So a foot infantry regiment (with no vehicles or dropship assets) will not get paid more than a mech regiment just because it has over 756 infantry officers & enlisted compared to 108 mechwarriors.  It actually values that besides that individual, you are bringing in assets that cost millions of c-bills each.

If that's the case then I'll likely take a look at Campaign Ops after all, although I'll go for the PDF I think, since it seems like more of a 'prep' resource.

With the Motorized Infantry you might want to list what type they are like you did with Mechanized Infantry. Although (APC Wheeled) is a little confusing. I'm guessing you mean that they ride around in abstracted Wheeled APCs, not that they're Mechanized Infantry with an attached Wheeled APC.

If your unit has the money you might mix the Motorized/Mechanized vehicles a bit. Hover for speed and water crossing. They'd be the scouts. Wheeled for roads and cities. They're your main forces. Tracked to go where the other two can't and carry heavier weapons.

Out of curiosity, I was wondering if you'd thought about using any of the other infantry types; Armored, Field Gun/Field Artillery, Beast Mounted, VTOL Infantry, K-9, Specialized and Xenoplanetary? They do add cost and weight but their advantages can be worth it.

For BA, personally, initially I'd go with Sloths, and maybe Infiltrators. They're not perfect but they're better than nothing and would give your troops experience using BA. With everyone wanting the newer BA they could be easier to obtain and may also cost less as they're less desired and/or used. Otherwise, I'd go with IS Standard as they'd be more available. Any other types would either be captured, salvaged or negotiated for with the Employer as part of their payment.

1. Yes, that's the case, as in they are abstracted - didn't really look into the ruling yet. I'm not a big fan of the canon apc models so I'm using contemporary M113-s for tracked and Fuchs' for wheeled. I want to add hover at some point aswell, although as Blizzards (when they become avaliable), since I like the look of those a lot.

2. The above is merely a rough draft. I'll likely integrate field gun/field artillery such as mortars, when it comes to exotic things I'm a bit hesitant at the moment - it also comes down to whether the models are avaliable to be represented or not.

3. I've taken a look at the Sloth, though a Lyran design it is not my cup of tea really, although it is possible that I'd use them in a capacity that you described, as a transition and training platform essentially. The Infiltrator on the other hand seems quite interesting, thanks for the heads up.

ASF:  I would like to throw out a few more options:
Sabre (Interceptor/Recon Birds) made everywhere [basicly the AK of Aerospace fighters. so you can pick up replacement parts anywhere]
Stingray or Eagle (Interceptors)
Thunderbird (Kill other people Dropships)

Slayers if you can get them get the R model, you have the fuel for days compared to everyone else
and if can't get the R swap the AC and ammo for PPC and heat sinks for ammo independance

From what you have listed I had the Slayer R on my christmas wishlist already, as if it were up to me, I'd strap an LB-10X AC on everything, haha. Other than that, the Sabre sounds like a good light fighter and training vessel, since its armament is similar to the Slayer's close range loadout. Further diversifying the ASF compliment would likely make sense too, as (if I understood correctly) the Slayer is more of a "brawler" than an interceptor when compared to lighter, faster designs. Sturdiness and survivability is the name of the game for me, which is why I'm considering either upgrading the Chippewas or swapping them to Rievers.

[RifleMech]

1. Yes, that's the case, as in they are abstracted - didn't really look into the ruling yet. I'm not a big fan of the canon apc models so I'm using contemporary M113-s for tracked and Fuchs' for wheeled. I want to add hover at some point aswell, although as Blizzards (when they become avaliable), since I like the look of those a lot.

That's cool.  You might flip the words around a little bit to be more clear. Something like Mechanized Infantry - Tracked (M113 APC) or Motorized Wheeled Infantry (Motorcycles).

2. The above is merely a rough draft. I'll likely integrate field gun/field artillery such as mortars, when it comes to exotic things I'm a bit hesitant at the moment - it also comes down to whether the models are avaliable to be represented or not.

That's cool. Unfortunately it isn't legal to use mortars as field gun/field artillery. :( I'd be okay with it but it is a House Rule thing. Of course you could just call it a mortar if you wanted even though it's actually something else. As for the other types, no worries. You can always add what you want later when you feel comfortable. It's the best way to do it really.  :thumbsup: I don't know if they'd have models for various infantry types though. You might have to rely on different paint jobs to differentiate them. That or see if there's other infantry models that would work the way you're using the M113.

3. I've taken a look at the Sloth, though a Lyran design it is not my cup of tea really, although it is possible that I'd use them in a capacity that you described, as a transition and training platform essentially. The Infiltrator on the other hand seems quite interesting, thanks for the heads up.

You're welcome.  :)   Sounds good. :thumbsup:

[Colt Ward]

Forgot about this thread but . . .

Honestly, Blizzards should not have a 3050s intro date.  Like the Brutus that came out in the same book, none of the base model tech restricts it from being a Succession Wars design . . . in fact as a small producer, it is easy to say they flew below ComStar's radar.  One other thing to consider would be the Knox Armored Car . . . IF you are using squad rules, since it's cargo is 1.5t . . . or remove the MG, ammo, and probably the fire control & turret to get the 3t for a platoon.

While the intro BA kind of stinks, the Great Retcon had powered exoskeletons available after Helm.  Some of those got armed and were available to mercenaries . . .the question really is, could it do what you need it to without too many downsides?

[Daryk]

Only after Helm?  I could have sworn all the necessary systems for exoskeletons never went extinct.  It was only armor that kept BA (or PA(L)) from being a thing.

[Colt Ward]

*shrugs*  Not sure, I know it was at least after Helm but if it is earlier so be it.

[Hellraiser]

Minor point of order.

A "Command" Overlord is likely quite a bit more rare than an Excalibur, IIRC.

Maybe swap it out along w/ 1 of the intruders for something more common, even the Excalibur.
Condor, Mule, Leo-CV

[Colt Ward]

Except we have that bit of people adjusting/modifying Overlords & Unions over the centuries since the Star League.

[Sir Chaos]

Only after Helm?  I could have sworn all the necessary systems for exoskeletons never went extinct.  It was only armor that kept BA (or PA(L)) from being a thing.

One of the MechWarrior scenarios in the old Kell Hounds sourcebook, set in 3012, mentions an "industrial exeskeleton" in passing. No details or stats are provided, probably because it´s described as "shattered", but it´s there.

Of course, that same scenario also contains two autonomous armed guard robots that have turned against the human garrison of the depot, so I´m not sure how canonical the whole thing is.

[Daryk]

Industrial exoskeletons date back to the OG TRO 3026.

[RifleMech]

IO gives Exoskeletons an introdate of ~2100.

[Daryk]

My point exactly!  8)

[Sir Chaos]

IO gives Exoskeletons an introdate of ~2100.

And how much longer would it have taken for somebody to improvise a machine gun or recoilless rifle mount on one, as the two-legged counterpart to technicals?

[Colt Ward]

And how much longer would it have taken for somebody to improvise a machine gun or recoilless rifle mount on one, as the two-legged counterpart to technicals?

2100 1/356th . . . I knew they had been detailed and retcon'd to be more serious, but I did not know the intro date off the top of my head.  I just think some of the armed Exos would be better than the Sloth- better training & transition to real BA later . . . and not a death trap.

[Daryk]

Armored Gloves are the "technical" enabling tech... any weapon (support or otherwise) with a crew of 1E or less can be carried by them.

[RifleMech]

My point exactly!  8)

 :thumbsup:

And how much longer would it have taken for somebody to improvise a machine gun or recoilless rifle mount on one, as the two-legged counterpart to technicals?

Excellent question.

2100 1/356th . . . I knew they had been detailed and retcon'd to be more serious, but I did not know the intro date off the top of my head.  I just think some of the armed Exos would be better than the Sloth- better training & transition to real BA later . . . and not a death trap.

I can see better training and more experience. I like the Sloth though. It's not great but as a prototype it's good.

[Hellraiser]

Except we have that bit of people adjusting/modifying Overlords & Unions over the centuries since the Star League.

Huh?  People modify dropships that take a shipyard to do?
I think variants are much more a case of factory production runs, not individual modifications by ship captains.
The Command variants are supposed to be rare w/ lots of high tech comms gear & holo tanks & fancy toys.
Not something your typical merc battalion has access to.
Like how Wolf Dragoons had 5 SLDF era Mobile HQs was notable when most units had nothing or made due with an ICE powered Command Van.

[Colt Ward]

Modifying a Overlord is not too hard as given by the only canon example we have . . . biggest stumbling block is money.  And for the 'Command' or other types mercs & militaries make, they would not be altering the hull/structural integrity of a dropship but rather the cargo & accommodations inside the ship.  Further, the Union & IIRC Overlord entries talk about how there are all sorts of 'non-standard' of those two ships floating about since military forces have had to modify ships to suit needs rather than during the tech decline just create a brand new type of dropship that fits their needs.

[Daryk]

Converting cargo cubicles to just about anything else is as hard as stacking conex boxes, really.  I've seen the real world military use the "building in a building" trick more than once (to duck the onerous MILCON rules).

[Failure16]

So, how hard would it be to convert ASF bays to 'Mech bays? By the rules on one hand, and "realistically" on the other?

[Hellraiser]

So, how hard would it be to convert ASF bays to 'Mech bays? By the rules on one hand, and "realistically" on the other?

Pretty sure that per the rules ANY modification to a Dropship requires a shipyard, & per the fluff most shipyard time is booked for Military & Merchant maintenance work.

If the Dictator is an example the variant was produced on a limited factory run basis.  That was swapping 12 mechs for 18 heavy vees.

Given the above, I see no reason why the Overlord-1/2/Vee/CV/HQ would not be factory versions of the base model given what we know.

I'm not saying ad-hoc conversions can't happen, just that they should be rare, and the command model itself is supposed to be one of the most rare variants.

[Failure16]

Well, let's just say that, if you lose the ASF bays, Unions and Overlords make great company- and battalion-level transpo assets for those of us who prefer company-headquarters sections for our mercenary outfits (and thereby leave our line-lances and -platoons to do line-lance/platoon stuff).

[Colt Ward]

I'm not saying ad-hoc conversions can't happen, just that they should be rare, and the command model itself is supposed to be one of the most rare variants.

Except that is not what the fluff says (unfortunately I cannot get HMA to work) because it talks about a myriad of unofficial variants that people produced over time, and I was not suggesting it would be a official command variant, but someone's attempt to emulate it shuffling internal space.  The only times we see the internal spaces of dropships getting re-worked they are not at a shipyard- Tyrannus Rex and maybe one or two others.  What the Steel Wolves did to their Okinawa CC was also not likely at a shipyard since the reversion was not recorded and Tigress only produces a VTOL.

[Hellraiser]

Well, let's just say that, if you lose the ASF bays, Unions and Overlords make great company- and battalion-level transpo assets for those of us who prefer company-headquarters sections for our mercenary outfits (and thereby leave our line-lances and -platoons to do line-lance/platoon stuff).

The Union has a variant fluffed as losing the ASF for an Infantry Company.

As for Battalion HQ lances on the Overlord, I just tend to move a line/scout lance out to a Leopard in those cases or bring a line unit in on a Mule with the 2nd wave.

Personally I'd be more inclined to bring MORE fighters for my DS, not less, LOL.  But that's me.

[Hellraiser]

myriad of unofficial variants that people produced over time,

It talks about many variants, it doesn't say that every Tom Dick & Harry ship captain is doing them.
Like I said, many variants are factory produced.

But lets look at it another way......
Given the fluff of the "Command" unit being a major asset & being able to provide a lot for the battlefield Command/Control, and, if its so easy to create from from a base model overlord, then, don't you think they wouldn't actually be noted as "Rare" & that Everyone would have them?

[Failure16]

Well, the original Strategic Operations (CGL, 2nd Printing, 2011) did say this on p. 189: "DropShips, JumpShips, WarShips and Space Stations can only be customized with the assistance of a functioning shipyard."

Now, the question is: how hard is it? In my head it is not very, given how things are routinely changed, modified, improved, or retrofitted in the BTU. And my mercenary outfit is going to keep operating like they have been for the last 25 years (not continuously, since I rarely play anymore, but...). But I'd be interested in knowing where to look for the official answer.

[Colt Ward]

It goes against BTU sense . . . which matters more, the extra lance or having a C&C center?  Especially when a commander will be out in their mech leading the charge?  This gets into the BTU conceit that regimental and army commanders lead from their cockpit while engaging in fighting.

Besides, it also covers folks who took a Union or Overlord and ripped out mech bays to put in a light vehicle lance.  Or a heavy vehicle lance to get a artillery firing platoon.

And if 1 custom refit is done a year, that means since the end of the Star League there could be over 200 custom Unions . . . and odds are more than 1 is done a year, though you offset with the numbers being attrit and sometimes the same ship getting reworked.

Failure, Hellraiser is giving you the book answer, which would be Tac or Strat Ops IIRC . . . but as I said, it goes against canon examples for minor interior changes- not I am not talking about increasing structural integrity, changing armor type, adding armor, installing totally new weapons systems or changing engines.  What we are talking about are some internal bulkheads and electronics suites.

[Daryk]

I think changing from one launch and recovery system to another (e.g., ASF to 'Mech bay) would certainly require a shipyard, but stuffing infantry into an existing bay would be the stacking conex boxes trick (even including the additional life support equipment).

[Failure16]

Again, I'm not saying it's easy, CW and Daryk (but thanks for responding). Given the ability of things to be modified in the BTU I have no problem doing it and saying it's been done. But where would I find such an answer in a book?

For the record, I'm not saying the ships should retain their ASF doors to be able to drop additional 'Mechs. Simply that instead of carrying twelve BattleMechs, a suitably modified Union would then carry fourteen with its normal four doors/dropchutes. And an Overlord 42 'Mechs vice 36/6 with standard 6 doors.

On an orbital/deepspace gameboard, I'm taking a loss. In a ground campaign, well, I'm running 14x'Mech line companies (when at establishment, which my units never are, so I'm still running 11-12 'Mech companies in practice. Sigh.). So, this modification isn't all it's banged up to be, but it better suits my regimental doctrine.

[RifleMech]

I would think it would depend on how extensive the changes are. Sure you could stuff a mech in the bay an ASF used to be in but without substantial work getting the mech in and out would be difficult do to the height differences between the two. You would have to raise the Bay's ceiling or lower the floor, or both to accommodate the mech, and then redo the doors. That's a huge change. On the other hand, replacing the ASF Bay with two floors of C&C and quarters would be a lot easier. The former I would think would require a shipyard do to the structural changes. The latter I think a shipyard would be better but it could be done without. 

As for carrying 14 mechs in 12 bays, there is the compact mech quirk. No customization required. And there's always the cargo bay.
 

[Daryk]

Stuffing the other two mechs in as cargo is certainly doable.  If you want them deployable on landing... that's certainly a shipyard job.

[Colt Ward]

Stuffing the other two mechs in as cargo is certainly doable.  If you want them deployable on landing... that's certainly a shipyard job.

He is referring to the compact mech quirk, which lets you put two mechs in a cubicle and be able to use them both with little problem.  This quirk usually applies to light mechs . . . only one I can think of is the Nyx, which was pretty much why the quirk was made due to a story.  Considering the dimension differences between a Great Turtle's width & depth and the tallest mech having to be accounted for in the dimensions of a mech cubicle, the quirk w/ light mechs is not really a stretch.

[Daryk]

OK, certainly a shipyard job OR a design Quirk...  ;)

[Hellraiser]

Well, the original Strategic Operations (CGL, 2nd Printing, 2011) did say this on p. 189: "DropShips, JumpShips, WarShips and Space Stations can only be customized with the assistance of a functioning shipyard."

This is what I was talking about.

There is another quote somewhere in the fluff that most shipyards are backlogged w/ orders for annual maintenance for Military & Merchant ships of the IS.

This is backed up by as far back as DS/JS the fluff stated that many DS were in constant disrepair & had bad air filtration systems & smells in them.

Which is why I say having an Overlord-HQ model is going to be RARE for your typical merc battalion.

Overlords are already the rarest of the 3 mech carriers & with the HQ variant not being available to every mech regiment.

But do whatever works for your home campaign.