BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: MarauderD on 23 June 2020, 10:17:46
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I thought it might be nice to have a place for us to discuss both the already released volume 1 and all of the upcoming volumes of the guide over the next year.
Both of the new Griffin variants grabbed me. First, I like the 3N because it reminds me of the old SHD-5D in that it uses Endo and Ferro as weight savings with a standard engine. The Case II means it is nice and durable, and the weapons mix lets it sit at range and plink away.
The Griffin C has dethroned the 6S and 6S2 as the best Griffin variant, IMO. 6/9/9 movement makes it a cavalry mech, and the clan ER PPC and Streak-10 bring weapons up to date. I might have preferred a LRM-15, but that is the charm of the C. It isn't perfect--it is good, but not flawless. The IS XL engine is a vulnerability, and I like that it is there. First, it is consistent with the C being an update of an IS mech--the 3M. Second, a perfectly designed mech is boring. I don't need Jagermech levels of flaws in my mechs, but absolutely perfectly designed mechs are less appealing to me, for some reason I can't put my finger on.
Cheers
What do you all think of the the new variants you're seeing?
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While the C is a update to the captured -3M & -1DS, its not a straight update to the -3M. The -3M & -1DS both have a larger LRM rack and -3M has a back up laser but the important thing with both are the internals . . . both have IS XLs and CASE to build on. I can honestly deal with the C using the Streak with the OOC explanation of 'we want the gun ports to match all of our released plastic minis' than the 'new toy syndrome' . . . granted the are using new-ish toys to make the design function, but its a better reason to me and can easily get behind it.
I am looking forward to what they release going forward to meet the 'gun ports' paradigm- especially if it gives us a rework of the old Twycross C mechs, just more SHS please!
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The Griffin C is a refit of a refit. The older -3M and -3DS models were converted to the -4R variant, which then served as the base for the C.
As a refit of the -4R, I'm unsure how much I like it. The ERPPC gives it a headcap, sure, and it has decent range...but I really like the weapon mix of the -4R which makes it a really versatile mid-ranged skirmisher. Losing the 9-hex short range of the Snub and the two tons of ammo for the MML-5 kind of sucks, overall damage output isn't increased, and you end up with something more than 700 (!!) BV more expensive for your trouble.
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Right, but those iJJs can routinely give you a +4 defensive mod. I personally believe that the headcap ability + extra damage from the streak LRMs + the iJJs are totally worth an extra 700 BV. Also no minimum on the Streak LRMs really improve it's ability to snipe and keep consistent hits and damage into the short range brackets. Finally, not firing the LRMs unless they hit mean your ammo is going to go further.
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Right, but those iJJs can routinely give you a +4 defensive mod. I personally believe that the headcap ability + extra damage from the streak LRMs + the iJJs are totally worth an extra 700 BV. Also no minimum on the Streak LRMs really improve it's ability to snipe and keep consistent hits and damage into the short range brackets. Finally, not firing the LRMs unless they hit mean your ammo is going to go further.
The -4R already had the iJJs for the 6/9/9 speed.
Max damage output is nearly the same between both variants as well, although the C obviously has longer range for its damage output. But I was never left wishing for more range on the -4R due to its massive jump range, and like I said, losing the 9-hex short range of the Snubbie hurts. With the swap for a cERPPC, you either have to contend with more accurate ERPPC, ERLL, Gauss Rifle, etc. return fire, or else you have to hang back at medium range yourself and have less accurate firepower.
It's certainly not a bad design, I'm just definitely unconvinced that it's worth the extra 700 BV.
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The Griffin C is a refit of a refit. The older -3M and -3DS models were converted to the -4R variant, which then served as the base for the C.
As a refit of the -4R, I'm unsure how much I like it. The ERPPC gives it a headcap, sure, and it has decent range...but I really like the weapon mix of the -4R which makes it a really versatile mid-ranged skirmisher. Losing the 9-hex short range of the Snub and the two tons of ammo for the MML-5 kind of sucks, overall damage output isn't increased, and you end up with something more than 700 (!!) BV more expensive for your trouble.
Its not a refit of the -4R . . . it straight says the Wolves were converting -3M & -1DS they were capturing to the C standard. The -3M and -1DS can still be found on the battlefield of 3150 and 'large numbers of both varians would be converted by Clan forces to their Griffin C standard.' Last sentence of the 1st paragraph of the variant section.
I do want to know if Tristan Ximander was the guy asking to help make his KS character a war criminal.
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Its not a refit of the -4R . . . it straight says the Wolves were converting -3M & -1DS they were capturing to the C standard. The -3M and -1DS can still be found on the battlefield of 3150 and 'large numbers of both varians would be converted by Clan forces to their Griffin C standard.' Last sentence of the 1st paragraph of the variant section.
I don't agree. Firstly, there's the quote "The model most commonly fielded by the Wolf Empire, simply known as the Griffin C, is unusual in being a refit of a refit. Built upon a common refit of older Griffins..."
With the common refit probably being the -4R, since both the -4R and the C share the same speed, engine, armor, heat sinks, and internal structure. then there's the quote you said, but you left out a word, being:
"Large numbers of both variants would eventually be converted"
Meaning the base model (the -3M or -1DS) could have been refitted into the -4R, then refitted again.
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I've seen discussion on Vol 1 in no fewer than six different threads, but I've seen absolutely no one talking about the most interesting thing in the entire book.
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The -4R already had the iJJs for the 6/9/9 speed.
Max damage output is nearly the same between both variants as well, although the C obviously has longer range for its damage output. But I was never left wishing for more range on the -4R due to its massive jump range, and like I said, losing the 9-hex short range of the Snubbie hurts. With the swap for a cERPPC, you either have to contend with more accurate ERPPC, ERLL, Gauss Rifle, etc. return fire, or else you have to hang back at medium range yourself and have less accurate firepower.
It's certainly not a bad design, I'm just definitely unconvinced that it's worth the extra 700 BV.
Hrm. I don't know how I missed the iJJs being there. Derp. The weird short range of the snubbie is definitely a helper. Improving the overall range by another 8 hexes, though, I feel makes the 4N, which looks like a great brawler on paper, into a great stand-off mobile sniper, even counting the other weapon systems it has to contend with. I dunno that's worth the ~700 BV, but I think it's marginal improvement.
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I've seen discussion on Vol 1 in no fewer than six different threads, but I've seen absolutely no one talking about the most interesting thing in the entire book.
And which part would that be, Scotty?
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And which part would that be, Scotty?
It's mentioned in two places: one of the Griffin notable pilots, and the Dominator notable pilot.
It is not a piece of equipment.
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It's mentioned in two places: one of the Griffin notable pilots, and the Dominator notable pilot.
It is not a piece of equipment.
The only common thing I'm seeing between the two is that both note an aging Clan Warrior. 100% chance I'm missing something stupid.
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The only common thing I'm seeing between the two is that both note an aging Clan Warrior. 100% chance I'm missing something stupid.
I'm fairly sure that willingly testing down into support castes at the end of an old Warrior's career has not been mentioned, or at the very least had not been mentioned anywhere in a major publication that I recognize off the top of my head. Otherwise the existence of Solahma in general would be a spectacular waste of the kind the Clans are supposed to abhor.
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Maybe solahma is for those who refuse to test down with dignity?
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Maybe solahma is for those who refuse to test down with dignity?
That would be a reasonable interpretation. But the big implication here is that Solahma isn't the only option for old Warriors, and that's something that I've seen anywhere else. It represents a fairly big paradigm shift for Clan society if it's a recent development.
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I'm fairly sure that willingly testing down into support castes at the end of an old Warrior's career has not been mentioned, or at the very least had not been mentioned anywhere in a major publication that I recognize off the top of my head. Otherwise the existence of Solahma in general would be a spectacular waste of the kind the Clans are supposed to abhor.
The Sharks did have warriors that 'retired' . . . Angus Labov became a merchant before being recalled. But the Griffin C pilot just wants to avoid joining the solahma, it does not say anything about testing out of the warrior ranks even- just reduction.
I don't agree. Firstly, there's the quote "The model most commonly fielded by the Wolf Empire, simply known as the Griffin C, is unusual in being a refit of a refit. Built upon a common refit of older Griffins..."
With the common refit probably being the -4R, since both the -4R and the C share the same speed, engine, armor, heat sinks, and internal structure. then there's the quote you said, but you left out a word, being:
"Large numbers of both variants would eventually be converted"
Meaning the base model (the -3M or -1DS) could have been refitted into the -4R, then refitted again.
Sorry, I was flipping screens and did not mean to leave out a word.
The -3M and -1DS were both factory builds and refits of the -1N and/or -1S, just like the C is a build (Keystone) and refit of the -3Ms & -1DS. 'Large numbers of both' refers to the -3M & -1DS . . . eventually just means that over time the Foxes, Crusader Wolves and maybe the Bears & Ravens, with the comments about the Dracs use of the -1DS, converted their captured -3M & -1DS in garrison clusters to the Clans' standards. We do not have a introduction date, so 'eventually' is easily explained as 'over the 5 years' from the last TRO.
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I'm fairly sure that willingly testing down into support castes at the end of an old Warrior's career has not been mentioned, or at the very least had not been mentioned anywhere in a major publication that I recognize off the top of my head. Otherwise the existence of Solahma in general would be a spectacular waste of the kind the Clans are supposed to abhor.
Didn't Diamond Sharks do something akin to this? Many merchants were former warriors that also were allowed to keep testing to maintain a reservist status?
Edit: Yeah, Colt has it above.
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The Sharks did have warriors that 'retired' . . . Angus Labov became a merchant before being recalled. But the Griffin C pilot just wants to avoid joining the solahma, it does not say anything about testing out of the warrior ranks even- just reduction.
The Griffin pilot specifically tests back down to Technician because that's what he enjoys. There are no Warrior Technicians in the Clans, that is literally literally what a caste system like the Clans is for.
I wasn't aware of the Sharks. But the Griffin pilot is a Jade Falcon MechWarrior, and such a willing test down is (literally) unheard of for Falcons as far as I know.
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Well obviously he is tainted! Probably feels getting shot at for a career was not as exciting as everyone put it. Clans have been exposed to the IS long enough that some may want to not have to look to enjoying their last beer every week.
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The Griffin pilot specifically tests back down to Technician because that's what he enjoys. There are no Warrior Technicians in the Clans, that is literally literally what a caste system like the Clans is for.
I wasn't aware of the Sharks. But the Griffin pilot is a Jade Falcon MechWarrior, and such a willing test down is (literally) unheard of for Falcons as far as I know.
Then you are not talking about the Griffin C- instead you are talking about the Griffin 2N pilot of the Invasion era. He was a IS freebirth who tested into a mech cockpit (Coventry?) and fought from whenever 'years' as a tech ended until the end of the Jihad. It does not say he enjoyed being a tech, but that he just dropped in status after the Jihad. I originally thought he was a Stoned RIF for the Falcons.
If you were the saKhan in charge of maintaining the touman, would you rather keep trueborns or freeborns when you have to shrink your mechwarrior rosters?
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The Griffin pilot specifically tests back down to Technician because that's what he enjoys. There are no Warrior Technicians in the Clans, that is literally literally what a caste system like the Clans is for.
I wasn't aware of the Sharks. But the Griffin pilot is a Jade Falcon MechWarrior, and such a willing test down is (literally) unheard of for Falcons as far as I know.
Joanna from the Jade Falcon novels was reassigned as a canister nanny at a sibko. They also seem to pick members of the Watch from older warriors. Solahma seemed to just be a way for warriors to die in combat, if they could not do so during their careers. And assuming they still wanted to.
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Could be the caste system is becoming more flexible instead of breaking down.
I like the grasshopper. It isn't the best mech, but it's a brick. I wouldn't hesitate to hand it to somebody's character in an rpg. The LRM is near-useless for fighting mechs, but there's always alternate ammo. I'm reminded of the baby mortar on the Merkava; utility, not dakka.
"OK, your ammo bin is empty. Lay out your minefield tokens."
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Could be the caste system is becoming more flexible instead of breaking down.
This is what it suggests to me, and why I'm baffled at everyone immediately trying to find any way to explain it other than this.
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Because its post-Jihad and all the IS Clans downsized their military to go along with Stone. What do you do with folks you no longer want to be warriors because you have RIF'd them? You test to see what caste they are assigned, just like when they fail out of sibkos or are crippled.
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The Dominator test pilot has absolutely nothing to do with post-Jihad downsizing.
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The Ghost Bears have a retest into another warrior caste I can't remember if it works to lower castes
What i found interesting was that the Wolves are trying to ingratiate themselves to the population. Upgrading factories, creating jobs, rebooting classic home designs, hunting down pirates, freeing slaves, trying to attract welcome back the Exiles into the fold and allowing native freeborn to join the Clan warrior caste
Its almost like they are acting more and more like a state instead of invaders that are better than
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I suspect the option has always been there, the difference might be the willingness of IS-born to take that option.
That’s what we saw with CDS.
And with the notable pilot entry.
See the formation of the Clans, and SLDF “warriors” being assigned to other castes as needed.
We see solahma as “the worst”. Clan warriors see it as maintaining their honor. See how Johanna sees being “demoted” to trainer. She would rather fight as an old warrior than not fight even with staying as a warrior. If you can only gain honor in battle, solahma is a better option than not being a warrior.
It’s not the option that is new, it’s the attitude towards that option.
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Clan Warrior society collectively rediscovering the concept of social mobility is incredibly interesting and important on the eve of the book called ilClan. That was why I brought it up in the first place.
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Good stuff. Good stuff.
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Clan Warrior society collectively rediscovering the concept of social mobility is incredibly interesting and important on the eve of the book called ilClan. That was why I brought it up in the first place.
not only that social mobility exists, but signs of a fundamental shift in what constitutes "good" social mobility throughout various levels of the pyramid. before the only acceptable ambition was up. the inner sphere surats are taking their toll ;D
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100% love this TRO(lite.. thing, whatever. :-)
Took the commando, the IS griffen, the mixed Loki and grasshopper into a brawl with the boys this weekend. LOVE them! The griffen did the best- it's like the 3025 griffen but PERFECT: for just skirmishing with a couple of hatamotos, it did great, just popping up and down a ridge line. The commando was doing well- love the weapon mix- but it caught a gauss into the LT and that was the end of him.
The Hopper took an OBSCENE amount of damage, but its throw weight was light. It was a BAD battle for it, I think in other situations it'll be a MONSTER.
The Mixed Loki, the uvber Glass cannon, had a rough night. I was rolling cold, but when I connected? My son gasped- "HOW MUCH DAMAGE?"
"16. okay, now take 22 to the CT."
OHMYGOD DAD, THIS BANSHEE HAD NO DAMAGE!
Well, he's gonna learn tonight! ;) ;D
Overall, I personally think it's a great book, love what I'm seeing.
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Clan Warrior society collectively rediscovering the concept of social mobility is incredibly interesting and important on the eve of the book called ilClan. That was why I brought it up in the first place.
Also interesting is that both examples are Wolf Empire. Transitioning from a Clan to an Empire and doing things in a "new way".
Nice find and good read.
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The Wolves have always been on the permissive/flexible/well-treated side as pertains to the Non-Warrior castes. All the way back to our beef with the Widowmakers boiling over, based on their treatment of Lower Caste workers.
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Something that I personally found interesting was that the Goliath C entry seems to suggest that it was Corean engineers who designed the 'Mech, giving them a certain liberty in operating that I don't think has been seen beyond the Rasalhague Dominion before now. Of course, this could be because of a severe lack of non-military Wolves, but still.
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Any word on when the mechs in the new Recognition Guides will be added to the Master Unit List? I would love to give them a go in Alpha Strike.
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Clan Warrior society collectively rediscovering the concept of social mobility is incredibly interesting and important on the eve of the book called ilClan. That was why I brought it up in the first place.
It sounds very similar to ideals and practices adopted by the Not Named quiaff? :D that'd be a twist Kerensky's own Clan following their practices...
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I'm fairly sure that willingly testing down into support castes at the end of an old Warrior's career has not been mentioned, or at the very least had not been mentioned anywhere in a major publication that I recognize off the top of my head. Otherwise the existence of Solahma in general would be a spectacular waste of the kind the Clans are supposed to abhor.
Little late here. I noticed that, but not being very well read on Clan society, I had no idea if it was thing or not prior to this. It makes far more sense for a society based on not wasting things to do this, rather than just throw people out with the proverbial garbage.
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The Clans don’t see battle itself, or a warrior dying in it as a waste. A waste is a warrior not going in to battle.
Solahma units are not a waste. It’s cutting costs. Think of a sports team. You want to clear off aging past their players. You need to clear cap space and/or payroll costs in order to have space/playing time for the young, new stars. But you don’t mind getting one more championship out of them.
Solahma units are that veteran team that might have one more championship in them before you dismantle them for good. And they would rather go down trying than retire quietly.
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Clan society is to change. Supposedly the Clans we know it will be changed in hundred years. We will see.
RG is beginning of it.
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Not having read the book...
What is a "support caste"?
Warriors have been retiring to training roles for years. Sea Fox merchant factors spring to mind. Military service is a requirement for a civilian politician in the Rasalhauge Republic.
The main odd thing here is "willingly". If you can win a Trial by combat you have inherently proven your fitness for combat. To willingly test down basically means throwing the Trial.
That implies a warrior willing to give up a combat position while still being the most qualified to fill that position.
There is a disturbing amount of free will being shown here. It is one thing to retire (rather than death by glory) when you are no longer qualified. It is another when you are still combat capable.
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Testing down into a non-warrior caste does indeed put a huge question mark behind the entire concept of solahma. Testing back up into warrior status was previously unheard of. Social mobility was named as a main reason for why the Wolverines drew Nicholas' wrath and got killed with fire.
The really interesting question is what happens to your bloodname if you have one and then voluntarily retire in this way?
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Not having read the book...
What is a "support caste"?
In the case of the Clans in question, anything other than Warrior. Diamond Shark/Sea Fox there's a reasonable claim to be made that there is no practicable difference between Merchant and Warrior after a certain rank.
Warriors have been retiring to training roles for years. Sea Fox merchant factors spring to mind. Military service is a requirement for a civilian politician in the Rasalhauge Republic.
Training roles are still technically Warrior caste. Rasalhague is absolutely a special case by virtue of having civilian politicians at all, and arguably they're not a part of the Clan caste system as practiced by the rest of the Clans in the first place.
The main odd thing here is "willingly". If you can win a Trial by combat you have inherently proven your fitness for combat. To willingly test down basically means throwing the Trial.
That implies a warrior willing to give up a combat position while still being the most qualified to fill that position.
Or it demonstrates that Warriors are trusted to make decisions on where their best service to the Clans can be performed. This is a radical concept for the Clans and is entirely why I think that it's the most interesting thing in the entire Recognition Guide, bar none.
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Testing down into a non-warrior caste does indeed put a huge question mark behind the entire concept of solahma. Testing back up into warrior status was previously unheard of. Social mobility was named as a main reason for why the Wolverines drew Nicholas' wrath and got killed with fire.
The really interesting question is what happens to your bloodname if you have one and then voluntarily retire in this way?
No, it happened quite a bit- Vlad tested washouts to be replacements, the merchants mentioned, the Cobra's reserve roster, and more
. . . 'testing down' would just be you are getting kicked out of the warriors, what are you good at?
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So I got the book and I read it, but quite honestly I wish that any other name besides "Dominator" had been chosen for that mech.
It just sounds too much like a villain form an 80s cartoon who raided Rob Halford's closet for his costume.
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The discussions about the route map to the Griffin C made me think that a 'family tree' of sorts for the chasses with the most variants might be an interesting project. The Marauder may be a bit complicted, but maybe something like the Wasp would be a good starting point.
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Or it demonstrates that Warriors are trusted to make decisions on where their best service to the Clans can be performed. This is a radical concept for the Clans and is entirely why I think that it's the most interesting thing in the entire Recognition Guide, bar none.
The Wolves showed Smoke Jaguar levels of foresight and planning with their Empire excursion. They are now a shockingly tiny minority over a nominally hostile population. They have already sold their souls, opening the Touman to anyone with a pulse, to get the numbers to survive. This is an extension of that logic.
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The Wolves showed Smoke Jaguar levels of foresight and planning with their Empire excursion. They are now a shockingly tiny minority over a nominally hostile population. They have already sold their souls, opening the Touman to anyone with a pulse, to get the numbers to survive. This is an extension of that logic.
To pull on the type of quasi-historical inspiration Battletech does a bit, the Wolves might even be a good case to do a Sparta vs Rome like imperial drama over the extension of warrior caste membership (Sparta refused to expand its citizenship and so was overwhelmed by its imperial achievements, versus Rome who was much better at integrating local elites into its body of citizens, as the old textbook lessons went).
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The Wolves showed Smoke Jaguar levels of foresight and planning with their Empire excursion. They are now a shockingly tiny minority over a nominally hostile population. They have already sold their souls, opening the Touman to anyone with a pulse, to get the numbers to survive. This is an extension of that logic.
I suspect Alaric Ward (-Steiner-Davion) being as outside-the-norms of a Clan Warrior as you can get having a big impact on the way the Wolves operate.
Everyone loves a winner, and as long as Alaric Ward keeps winning, the Wolves will let him keep doing what he's doing.
If the Touman actually remains this open to outsiders once the Sibko graduates start increasing is another matter.
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The Wolves showed Smoke Jaguar levels of foresight and planning with their Empire excursion.
Not really. It was a calculated move that removed the Wolves from a situation where they were surrounded by three strong Clan militaries and had little domestic military production of their own to one where they faced one or two weak and divided Spheroid militaries and access to multiple military factories.
And they’ve parlayed that position into a shot at the ilClan/Terra.
They are now a shockingly tiny minority over a nominally hostile population. They have already sold their souls, opening the Touman to anyone with a pulse, to get the numbers to survive. This is an extension of that logic.
Clans have always readily incorporated foreign elements into their societies and toumans. That’s the whole point of trials of possession, trials of absorption, bondsmen, etc. The Wolves are not “selling their souls”. They’re just doing what Clans do.
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So I got the book and I read it, but quite honestly I wish that any other name besides "Dominator" had been chosen for that mech.
It just sounds too much like a villain form an 80s cartoon who raided Rob Halford's closet for his costume.
Sounds very Clanlike, then. :)
Look at it this way: They could have named it the Wolf Dominator or the DominateHawk...
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Battletech is the future of the eighties, after all, & the Clans were villains in the cartoon, so.....
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Now we just need one painted all in black with plenty of silver spikes...
...maybe some denim blue around the join of torso and hips?
>:D
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Now we just need one painted all in black with plenty of silver spikes...
...maybe some denim blue around the join of torso and hips?
>:D
I might steal this scheme. I've got an older Executioner mini I've been considering doing as a Solaris fighter since I'll be replacing it in my Falcon lineup with the Kickstarter beaut. Now you've inspired me to paint it as a cheesy villain, and fluff the pilot as always playing the heel both in and out of the arenas. >:D
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I might steal this scheme. I've got an older Executioner mini I've been considering doing as a Solaris fighter since I'll be replacing it in my Falcon lineup with the Kickstarter beaut. Now you've inspired me to paint it as a cheesy villain, and fluff the pilot as always playing the heel both in and out of the arenas. >:D
I'm down for that, make a Sasquatch with a gaudy "hero" design with the shield bearing some faction logo like it's Captain Ameria sent there to take them down.
Think of the ticket sales for the arenas! :rockon:
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That's right folks, the match you've been waiting for! Will evil's rule over the Class 4 Circuit be complete, or will the forces of light be triumphant? Find out this weekend, as Leftenant Liberty tries to end the five-match streak of... Tooth and Khansequences! Sunday, Sunday, Sunday!!!
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Because its post-Jihad and all the IS Clans downsized their military to go along with Stone. What do you do with folks you no longer want to be warriors because you have RIF'd them? You test to see what caste they are assigned, just like when they fail out of sibkos or are crippled.
Where is this actually written? I don't doubt it, but I don't think I have ever read it, only heard it.
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Where is this actually written? I don't doubt it, but I don't think I have ever read it, only heard it.
I agree its confusing re: the Clans. Take Clan Jade Falcon and Wolf. They both invaded with what, 5 galaxies of front line troops? What are they even at now? 20+ galaxies? How do you reconcile a willingness to reduce forces for Stone and yet both have been able to create new forces at such a rate? I'm a little baffled at that, but realize some handwavium may be at work here.
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Sounds very Clanlike, then. :)
Look at it this way: They could have named it the Wolf Dominator or the DominateHawk...
Battletech is the future of the eighties, after all, & the Clans were villains in the cartoon, so.....
I certainly cannot dispute either of these statements. :thumbsup:
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I agree its confusing re: the Clans. Take Clan Jade Falcon and Wolf. They both invaded with what, 5 galaxies of front line troops? What are they even at now? 20+ galaxies? How do you reconcile a willingness to reduce forces for Stone and yet both have been able to create new forces at such a rate? I'm a little baffled at that, but realize some handwavium may be at work here.
FM3145 lists 14 galaxies for Wolf?
5 galaxies in 3050 with a 1% growth rate each year gives you 14 galaxies in the 3150s
A 2% growth rate hits 14 in 3100.
I don’t think those kinds of rates require handwavium.
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Also to note, the invading forces were not the whole of the clan.
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I agree its confusing re: the Clans. Take Clan Jade Falcon and Wolf. They both invaded with what, 5 galaxies of front line troops? What are they even at now? 20+ galaxies? How do you reconcile a willingness to reduce forces for Stone and yet both have been able to create new forces at such a rate? I'm a little baffled at that, but realize some handwavium may be at work here.
What you're inferring ignores how both Clans also had additional troops that they brought into the Inner Sphere after the initial invasion. But since the important starting point for this is after the end of the Jihad, they were at 11 galaxies for the Falcons in 3085, and 5 for the Wolves.
By 3145 the Falcons are at 11 galaxies, and the Wolves at 14. This is after the Falcons pillaged their lower castes and took on failed warriors, and after the Wolves started enlisting hoards of locals for their Garrison Clusters. Both of their militaries are now bloated with previously highly undesirable soldiers, and it reflects in the piss-poor quality of a decent chunk of their troops.
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Sorry, but which books contained the agreement between the Clans and Stone to disarm? My head cannon has been that it was the local Nobility and privately armed individuals that were disarmed (along with general peacetime reduction of active troops).
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Sorry, but which books contained the agreement between the Clans and Stone to disarm? My head cannon has been that it was the local Nobility and privately armed individuals that were disarmed (along with general peacetime reduction of active troops).
you are correct.
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you are correct.
Citiation Needed :)
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Military Materiel Redemption Program, pg 163 FM: 3085. they also mothballed some factories like on Irian. i can't remember where the general disarmament was mentioned, though the number of new mechs and variants between say 3080-3130 is at the lowest point since the collapse of star league tech capabilities in the late 2800 - early 2900s. you get hints of the general proscriptions on military expansion from TRO entries like the Yao Lien.
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What you're inferring ignores how both Clans also had additional troops that they brought into the Inner Sphere after the initial invasion. But since the important starting point for this is after the end of the Jihad, they were at 11 galaxies for the Falcons in 3085, and 5 for the Wolves.
By 3145 the Falcons are at 11 galaxies, and the Wolves at 14. This is after the Falcons pillaged their lower castes and took on failed warriors, and after the Wolves started enlisting hoards of locals for their Garrison Clusters. Both of their militaries are now bloated with previously highly undesirable soldiers, and it reflects in the piss-poor quality of a decent chunk of their troops.
I did notice the quality of the troops for both clan forces had greatly suffered when compared to invasion forces 95 years previous.
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Sorry, but which books contained the agreement between the Clans and Stone to disarm? My head cannon has been that it was the local Nobility and privately armed individuals that were disarmed (along with general peacetime reduction of active troops).
There's a lot of inference in the early novels that most states followed the conditions of the disarmament program, but to the best of my knowledge, there's little in actual sourcebook material that really confirms it (at least, so far).
From what we've been told in sourcebooks or TROs, the Republic of the Sphere and Fed Suns were the two states to really follow the program in force. The Dracs, on paper, did as well, but did a lot of fudging to hide top-quality 'Mechs in militias and the like. The CapCon didn't openly expand their forces (and certainly didn't reduce them), but didn't slow 'Mech production and instead set up massive stockpiles of military hardware to supply to hidden units being formed. For the FWL states it seems to have been on a state by state basis depending on the faction; those with closer ties to the Republic, such as the Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey, seem to have followed the disarmament principles more closely (if the Diomede D-M3D-M fluff is any indicator).
The Clans...well, it's hard to say. The Bears had the greatest incentive to follow the disarmament, and based on the fluff, seem to have reduced 'Mech production substantially in their nation during the Dark Age interim. The Falcons and Horses were left with barely any production during that interim, with the Horses losing New Oslo at some point and the Falcons, Pandora. The Wolves definitely weren't in a stronger position themselves, and the Ravens didn't have enough infrastructure to handle expanding their military. Combine that with the "Great Reavings", which probably did a lot to reduce Warrior numbers across every Clan, and you end up with a bunch of Clans that basically stagnated for the better part of 40+ years.
Someone can correct the inaccuracies in what I said, but it's the best I've been able to come up based off of the random clues in the fluff. It'd certainly be nice to have a pre-blackout product that goes into the military and societal statuses of each faction before things started to ramp up again.
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Quick question, how much "lighter" than a standard TRO is this guide?
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How do you mean?
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you are correct.
Nope . . . the Clans went along with Stone's proposals, and he couched it in terms of 'improving' their elite nature. It is why they started propagating Trials of Reaving for Bloodname counts among the IS Clans.
INN's Narrow Bloodlines: A Look at the Great Reavings, Then and Now
26Jan3134
Discusses the 'Great Reavings' post Jihad of the bloodhouses which was said to occur into the 3090s. The comments section gets into a bit more detail, saying the toumans are still smaller than they were 60 years ago (circa 3074) which is after the Jihad- they did not rebuild to pre-Jihad troop strength levels. Heck, they did not restore the quality of their forces even with downsizing.
12% into Flight of the Falcon, Bec Malthus mentions the agreement between Devlin Stone, with the agreement nicknamed 'Devil's bargain' as a play on worlds for Devil in Stone.
And in the Zetas' attack on Porrima, 14% "Combat Dropships, like other military assets, had been reduced in number throughout the Inner Sphere through the intercession of Devlin Stone." 32% into the book, detailing the conquering of the Chaffee clearly sites the economic & political pressures of the MMRP mandated a change in the touman and was reflected in the desant's force mix. When the Falcons sought to make up their lost strength- Turkina Keshik, Turkina Galaxy's First Cluster- a trinary of VTOLs & another trinary of mostly vehicles were added to bring it back up to pre-MMRP strength. The Turkina Keshik was also given two trinaries of mechanized infantry for the desant to boost it's strength.
Which are the quick references I can find.
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How do you mean?
I've seen mention that it's not a full length TRO, plus it being only $3 for the PDF and that they will be compiled into one book after they are all released?
How much less is in this than say a regular TRO?
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INN's Narrow Bloodlines: A Look at the Great Reavings, Then and Now
26Jan3134
Discusses the 'Great Reavings' post Jihad of the bloodhouses which was said to occur into the 3090s. The comments section gets into a bit more detail, saying the toumans are still smaller than they were 60 years ago (circa 3074) which is after the Jihad- they did not rebuild to pre-Jihad troop strength levels. Heck, they did not restore the quality of their forces even with downsizing.
That was some really interesting reading. I never did read more than a few of those articles when they were fresh, I had no idea so many of them had been written.
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Nope . . . the Clans went along with Stone's proposals, and he couched it in terms of 'improving' their elite nature. It is why they started propagating Trials of Reaving for Bloodname counts among the IS Clans.
INN's Narrow Bloodlines: A Look at the Great Reavings, Then and Now
26Jan3134
Argh...INN. That's the source I forgot to check.
Gotta go read up on that now.
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I've seen mention that it's not a full length TRO, plus it being only $3 for the PDF and that they will be compiled into one book after they are all released?
How much less is in this than say a regular TRO?
seven mechs, ~15 variants, most of them new.
Compared to a print TRO it's tiny. It's even a bit smaller than an XTRO PDF from a decade ago. But that's why it's cheaper than an XTRO.
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the three compilation TROs released over the past couple years each have 93 mechs in them. if the average of seven ray mentioned holds true, the full series will clock in at somewhere between 135-150 mechs, which is closer to a "full" tro like 3145 that normally includes some combination of mechs, battle armor, vees, and aerospace.
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Sounds very Clanlike, then. :)
Look at it this way: They could have named it the Wolf Dominator or the DominateHawk...
Before long were just going to end up with clan names like the Falcon Puncher and WolfHawkBird
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there are at least hundreds of languages with several words for different kinds of falcons. we have until at least the heat death of the universe to get through them all :))
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*still wants the Budgie, a Falcon update to the UrbanMech*
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*still wants the Budgie, a Falcon update to the UrbanMech*
Reminds me of the April Fools Corgi they released for MWO one year. They joked it was going to be a Urbanmech Scale Doggo Mech, did a whole "mech release" page for it, and all it really was, was a cockpit item you could get. Mine's in my Urbie.
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Just a lore question...when a Hermes -4K (the 3058 DC export version) got a line in Tongatapu? The only mention that i can find to a mech line in that planet is from the XTRO: Marik set in 3080 with the Awesome -11M and clan-spec double heat sinks produced there by Technicron Manufacturing. Also is interesting thet the recognition guide named it "Technicron Manufacturing/IBMU". As far i know, Irian BattleMech unlimited was the only producer of the Hermes...in Irian. Probably they moved the line after IBMU factory got damaged during the Jihad, and after Irian was handed over to the RotS.
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That's right folks, the match you've been waiting for! Will evil's rule over the Class 4 Circuit be complete, or will the forces of light be triumphant? Find out this weekend, as Leftenant Liberty tries to end the five-match streak of... Tooth and Khansequences! Sunday, Sunday, Sunday!!!
I'd buy that for a dollar!
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Just a lore question...when a Hermes -4K (the 3058 DC export version) got a line in Tongatapu? The only mention that i can find to a mech line in that planet is from the XTRO: Marik set in 3080 with the Awesome -11M and clan-spec double heat sinks produced there by Technicron Manufacturing. Also is interesting thet the recognition guide named it "Technicron Manufacturing/IBMU". As far i know, Irian BattleMech unlimited was the only producer of the Hermes...in Irian. Probably they moved the line after IBMU factory got damaged during the Jihad, and after Irian was handed over to the RotS.
That's a good question, actually.
So it looks like Technicron might have moved production over to Tongatapu after Savannah got smashed during the Jihad.
After Irian got shut down by the Republic, it's possible that they entered discussions with Technicron to put Irian designs into production elsewhere, which lead to the development of the AWS-11R and *maybe* the manufacture of the Hermes.
Then once the wall went up and the FWL officially claimed Irian, the Technicron/IBMU joint project, merger, or whatever it is was officially declared.
That's my best guesswork.
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Not really. It was a calculated move that removed the Wolves from a situation where they were surrounded by three strong Clan militaries and had little domestic military production of their own to one where they faced one or two weak and divided Spheroid militaries and access to multiple military factories.
And they’ve parlayed that position into a shot at the ilClan/Terra.
Clans have always readily incorporated foreign elements into their societies and toumans. That’s the whole point of trials of possession, trials of absorption, bondsmen, etc. The Wolves are not “selling their souls”. They’re just doing what Clans do.
Well yes the leadership recognized their poor strategic situation.
The solution was to pack all the warriors in their stunted DA Touman, and any civilians that might fit and Leroy Jenkined first into the RoS where they bounced, then finally into a soft spot on the FWL/LC border with all the combat losses that entails.
In the 10 year gap that follows they need to get their numbers up to 14 reduced, mostly low quality Galaxies seen in TRO3045. That 10 year gap is the only saving grace they have.
As for readily incorporating foreign elements, did you miss the 30 years of real life discussions about the sheeple of the Inner Sphere? The last time a Clan tried this was The Invasion. And they could ship in a civilian bureaucracy to run the place. They have had to pay off the locals some how, hire the Sea Foxes to do the factory refits. Heck at least 3 Galaxies are pure IS without 20 years of reeducation. This whole scenario makes the Nova Cats retreat from the Homeworlds a triumph of forethought.
Look. I have come to accept it. Mainly thanks to that 10 years. But in order to maintain the continual offensive Alaric demands the Wolves are like a warrior bubble floating on a sea of people they have paid off one way or another. The only way it works is that it seems to pay off with IlClan. Otherwise it is Jaguar level crazy.
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Or maybe its crazy like The Fox. #geneticfiat
Cheers,
LCC
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Going back to "Why did the Clans shrink their toumans when the Republic did the MRP?" What do Clans and the Clan way of life abhor? Waste. That's why they have the Trial system and bidding, each side trying to win with the fewest forces possible. First the RAF cuts its forces, then the Combine makes at least a show of doing the same. If all the Clans neighbors ate deciding to make do with less, why are the Clans, who abhor waste, going to keep rolling with these larger than necessary toumans? The answer is they won't.
Just as in bidding, when one side cuts its forces down, the true Clan Warrior will cut his down even more having confidence in the ability of his forces to win even at an apparent disadvantage. So no, they didn't make an agreement with Stone to reduce their forces, but following their own philosophy required the Clans to reduce their forces.
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It has also been pointed out several times when I have complained about the silliness of the clans disarming just because stone encouraged it, that the Jihad left most toumans relatively ravaged, and it was not so much "getting rid of mechs" as "setting rebuilding targets lower." It's not something I'm entirely satisified with, but the devs hands are tied, there's no retconning out the stupider aspects of the Dark Ages, so eh, whatever.
The part I can't let slide nearly so easily, is why they rebuilt with so many non-omni desings. You would think that a shift to smaller toumans having to defend the same area they've always had to defend, that you would want to make your forces as elite as possible, equip them with the best and most prestigious gear you could. If I was going to have fewer clusters around, I know I would want the ones I did have, to be able to configure themselves to suit all of the jobs I would be asking of them, and that means omnimechs. Sure, probably hard to do in 3090. But by 3130, if you still have not managed to bring enough Omnimech production back, in forty years of trying, that's pretty sad. At a certain point, it is time to put the Blood Reaper and the Tundra Wolf in the Brian Cache, and start putting butts back in Timber Wolves, Warwolves, Gargoyles and so on.
Or at the least, stuff some caches with them so that when your opponent thinks he has you, you aren't in nearly so dire straights as they thought, and now you are coming at them with your best.
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I don’t like the disarmament at all either. It seems like the best way to recover would be go max production on everything; mechs, consumer items, vehicles, funny hats with the propellers on top. Similar to how USA jumpstarted spending to recover from the Great Depression.
I especially envisioned something like that going on with the ghost bears, given they have civilians, rather than subjects or fools who happen to be on the same planet that the Clan is on. The massive cut down on military spending (which as far as I can tell is the majority of spending in universe) hurts people and combined it’s the collapse of the economy (c-bills) its very bothersome.
The lack of omnis is silly too, even given clicky-techs influence.
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Going back to "Why did the Clans shrink their toumans when the Republic did the MRP?" What do Clans and the Clan way of life abhor? Waste. That's why they have the Trial system and bidding, each side trying to win with the fewest forces possible. First the RAF cuts its forces, then the Combine makes at least a show of doing the same. If all the Clans neighbors ate deciding to make do with less, why are the Clans, who abhor waste, going to keep rolling with these larger than necessary toumans? The answer is they won't.
Just as in bidding, when one side cuts its forces down, the true Clan Warrior will cut his down even more having confidence in the ability of his forces to win even at an apparent disadvantage. So no, they didn't make an agreement with Stone to reduce their forces, but following their own philosophy required the Clans to reduce their forces.
Emphasis mine . . . but yes, it explicitly says that they did in Flight of the Falcons as quoted in my earlier post. What you say is true, he manipulated them using their own trial system (like that was a first) but they still made an agreement.
Steve . . . the Royal Navy, largest of the time and the 'winner' of WWI agreed to the Washington Treaty limiting their own rebuilding and that is not the only time in history that sort of thing has happened. So the MRRP is not a stretch for human nature- think of all the times you have heard the phrase 'peace dividend' for one- even in the BTU since Cameron convinced the Houses to downsize their militaries as part of forming the Star League.
Night Wolves, Tundra Wolves, Blood Reapers and Sun Cobras filling the touman? Well, I agree considering the IS side tended to improve their force tech levels by de-commissioning the un-upgraded 3025 designs, 3050s designs and the stop-gap Primitives from the Jihad. You can question how much of their infrastructure they had to replace being cut off from the Home Worlds, but Vlad had limited production in the OZ and what existed got nuked while the other Clans had been building Omnis in the IS.
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It has also been pointed out several times when I have complained about the silliness of the clans disarming just because stone encouraged it, that the Jihad left most toumans relatively ravaged, and it was not so much "getting rid of mechs" as "setting rebuilding targets lower." It's not something I'm entirely satisified with, but the devs hands are tied, there's no retconning out the stupider aspects of the Dark Ages, so eh, whatever.
The part I can't let slide nearly so easily, is why they rebuilt with so many non-omni desings. You would think that a shift to smaller toumans having to defend the same area they've always had to defend, that you would want to make your forces as elite as possible, equip them with the best and most prestigious gear you could. If I was going to have fewer clusters around, I know I would want the ones I did have, to be able to configure themselves to suit all of the jobs I would be asking of them, and that means omnimechs. Sure, probably hard to do in 3090. But by 3130, if you still have not managed to bring enough Omnimech production back, in forty years of trying, that's pretty sad. At a certain point, it is time to put the Blood Reaper and the Tundra Wolf in the Brian Cache, and start putting butts back in Timber Wolves, Warwolves, Gargoyles and so on.
Or at the least, stuff some caches with them so that when your opponent thinks he has you, you aren't in nearly so dire straights as they thought, and now you are coming at them with your best.
Do we have an idea of how much manufacturing infrastructure the Clans actually brought forward from the Homeworlds to the Inner Sphere post 3050?
I wonder if the lack of what we consider Frontline Omnimechs is due to decades of attrition and being unable to produce replacements locally in the Inner Sphere. Its one thing have the schematics for design, and quite another having the necessary manufacturing templates and molds.
I can see the situation worsened by being cut-off from the Homeworlds post-WoR, and having to rely even further on what is available in the Inner Sphere.
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Bears moved everything they could, SharkFoxes and Horses moved quite a bit, Falcons moved some and spent a lot of effort updating factories they captured, the Ravens moved some infrastructure in, Warden Wolves brought a huge space station & captured a Leviathan load of factory set up, and the Wolves set up & kept the least- Tamar's Gargs nuked, Satalice's Locust IIC upgrade captured by the Bears along with another facility or two IIRC.
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Bears moved everything they could, SharkFoxes and Horses moved quite a bit, Falcons moved some and spent a lot of effort updating factories they captured, the Ravens moved some infrastructure in, Warden Wolves brought a huge space station & captured a Leviathan load of factory set up, and the Wolves set up & kept the least- Tamar's Gargs nuked, Satalice's Locust IIC upgrade captured by the Bears along with another facility or two IIRC.
Yikes, I can start to understand now why the Wolves had to bootstrap their weapons production with the Blood Reaper and Tundra Wolf. Also now it makes more sense that Timber Wolf fell out of use amongst Vlad's Wolves. They just couldn't build more.
How widespread was The Society's machinations in the Inner Sphere? Could they have damaged industrial bases and knowledge repositories?
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How widespread was The Society's machinations in the Inner Sphere? Could they have damaged industrial bases and knowledge repositories?
Basically zilch; the only Society shenanigans that saw any impact in the Sphere happened in the Falcon OZ with Étienne's uprising, and they didn't really target any industrial sites. He was more motivated by taking control of the Clan from the Warrior Caste, not demolishing it.
Re: Omnis, there is mention in the Karhu's TRO entry that the Dominion's 'Mech manufacturers made more money by producing customized BattleMechs than producing OmniMechs, and that they were lobbying accordingly. Maybe something similar happened in certain other Clans like the Falcons, but I imagine that other Clans like the Wolves just decided to produce whatever was cheapest to pump out in large numbers.
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and Leroy Jenkined first into the RoS where they bounced, then finally into a soft spot on the FWL/LC border with all the combat losses that entails.
Not quite. The Wolf move against the RoS was a diversionary attack to draw attention away from their primary assault on Marik worlds. It was part of the same plan stemming from Melissa Steiner’s invitation to the Wolves to travel through Lyran space and coordinate with Operation Hammerfall.
up to 14 reduced, mostly low quality Galaxies seen in TRO3045
It’s 7 frontline and 7 garrison galaxies in FM3145. Given the large and expanding Empire, it’s arguably best to raise a larger number of lower quality units to defend those holdings so that the higher quality units are freed up for offensive actions.
There’s no going back to the all-omni, mostly elite TO&E in the Wolf Clan SB. War degrades militaries. The only way to preserve pristine Clan toumans was to forgo Operation Revival, which of course defeats the purpose of introducing the Clans and of the BT setting in general.
As for readily incorporating foreign elements, did you miss the 30 years of real life discussions about the sheeple of the Inner Sphere?
All BT populations, Spheroid and Clan, are sheeple unless the plot demands otherwise. And with the exception of minor colorful sideshows like the Motstand in the Dominion, there’s been no major resistance to Clan rule in the OZs and other holdings. Honestly, the Cappies put up more resistance on their former worlds after the 4th Succession War than what we’ve seen on Clan occupied worlds.
Unless the Wolves are set for a reversal or downfall like the FedCom was, the realities of tiny foreign militaries occupying huge populations will be ignored like they’ve always been in the BT setting.
But in order to maintain the continual offensive Alaric demands the Wolves are like a warrior bubble floating on a sea of people they have paid off one way or another. The only way it works is that it seems to pay off with IlClan. Otherwise it is Jaguar level crazy.
The Wolves didn’t plan a crazy continual offensive. Rather, different Wolf leaders have been presented with a series of opportunities, and they’ve made calculated bets to take advantage of each one.
The Elsies offered the Wolves an opportunity to relocate to greener pastures. The Elsies then gave the Wolves a pretext to take some of their worlds. The Falcons gave the Wolves an opportunity to show up their old enemies. The Republic seems weak giving the Wolves a path to the ilClanship. Should the Wolves have ignored or foregone these opportunities? I don’t think so.
YMMV...
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Re: Omnis, there is mention in the Karhu's TRO entry that the Dominion's 'Mech manufacturers made more money by producing customized BattleMechs than producing OmniMechs, and that they were lobbying accordingly. Maybe something similar happened in certain other Clans like the Falcons, but I imagine that other Clans like the Wolves just decided to produce whatever was cheapest to pump out in large numbers.
Sounds like a bit of fluff accommodating MWDA's abundance of customs- particularly Tassa Kay's Ryoken II- in the canon.
As far as the Crusader Wolves' move- a sort of march of the 10,000 . . . they were taking key segments of their population to the new lands. The description of what Epsilon Galaxy did- striking back through Lyran space and hitting their supply lines would also coincidentally recover their civilian castes which were trapped along those trade routes. Afaik, we have never gotten any sort of information detailing the Lyrans putting the civilians in any camps or anything else which supposes those civilians were not a problem for the Lyran state.
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Like I said, it's understandable in 3090, to be poor in Omnimech production. I just think things should have progressed a lot more swiftly towards them, or even a strong salvage reclamation program, to resurrect Jihad Casualties into functional machines once more. It would have been a top priority were I khan. Cycle jihad-era statics into Brian Caches, and refit my limited touman in elite omnimechs and Elemental grade Battle Armor.
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I'm excited for a warhammer. I just love that some family could have fought the reunification war through present with constant refits to the Warhammer, but the last one was the 11t in 3084.
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I'm excited for a warhammer. I just love that some family could have fought the reunification war through present with constant refits to the Warhammer, but the last one was the 11t in 3084.
Then they missed their best upgrade opportunity since the Sharks were selling Warhammer IIC 4s in the late 3060s. (I know)
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Then they missed their best upgrade opportunity since the Sharks were selling Warhammer IIC 4s in the late 3060s. (I know)
Let's just say the warhammer's name is Theseus.
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I'm excited for a warhammer. I just love that some family could have fought the reunification war through present with constant refits to the Warhammer, but the last one was the 11t in 3084.
Same here. My big 4 "curiosity" points are a new Warhammer, Rifleman, Crusader, and Marauder. Since we are looking at 22 volumes over 44 weeks, it could be well into next year when we find out.
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Then they missed their best upgrade opportunity since the Sharks were selling Warhammer IIC 4s in the late 3060s. (I know)
There's an 8D2 in the back of 3145. It's a boosted C3 variant though.
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Speaking of the 'hammer, I'm curious if we will get the new image of the Warhammer IIC 10 (Rifleman style arms with 2 ER Large Lasers per arm) or 11/12 models since their DA models.
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Speaking of the 'hammer, I'm curious if we will get the new image of the Warhammer IIC 10 (Rifleman style arms with 2 ER Large Lasers per arm) or 11/12 models since their DA models.
We will get ones that match the original Warhammer IIC since we will be getting the new classic art?
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Speaking of the 'hammer, I'm curious if we will get the new image of the Warhammer IIC 10 (Rifleman style arms with 2 ER Large Lasers per arm) or 11/12 models since their DA models.
We know the intent is for these to match the Kickstarter mini as often as possible, so you can just go look at the previews that have been shown in the KS updates or Shimmering Sword's Patreon - odds are very good that's what it will look like.
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Curious if anyone knows the ETA for new artwork from the Recognition guides to hit the MUL. For instance, the new Grasshopper art was in RG:i Volume 1. When will all the older Grasshopper art on the MUL be replaced with the new awesome art?
I know the MUL team is busy, but this is a simple cut and paste exchange.
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I wouldn't assume that it is indeed that simple unless a MUL team member explicitly says so.
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The clan omnis were all updated in fairly short order so I imagine time is a factor. I’d expect maybe at least the first six to drop so they can be done in batches
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Ha, it’s so simple anybody can do it!
*waits for anybody else to do it*
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Ha, it’s so simple anybody can do it!
*waits for anybody else to do it*
I mean from the MUL’s inception the implied don’t call us we’ll call you vibe has been pretty strong
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I know I'd certainly help with grunt work if there was the need...but yeah, I figured that as well.
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Just from doing some adjacent personal projects I get the picture on how specialized your universe knowledge has but it also strikes me as the only all volunteer outfit I’ve come across that doesn’t ask for volunteers :))
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Yes. That’s part of what makes it not so simple.
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Ha, it’s so simple anybody can do it!
*waits for anybody else to do it*
No intent to insult or denigrate was meant on my part. In some cases, like the Grasshopper in question, I'm fairly (not 100%) sure that this is an across the board replacement, like it was for the Timber Wolf, for example.
I volunteer to help, as limited as my abilities might be!
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Yes. That’s part of what makes it not so simple.
heavy is the head that wears the (stipend-free) crown
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Note that the MUL has been asked to abide by a moratorium on new products for Recognition Guide: ilClan. So right now, for this current issue, it's not a question of volunteers needed. My response is to the general idea that it is simple to update the MUL, as yall have pointed out (correctly), the first major hurdle is that it is practically impossible to join the MUL team and has been for too long.
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time to develop the MULSAT
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Note that the MUL has been asked to abide by a moratorium on new products for Recognition Guide: ilClan. So right now, for this current issue, it's not a question of volunteers needed. My response is to the general idea that it is simple to update the MUL, as yall have pointed out (correctly), the first major hurdle is that it is practically impossible to join the MUL team and has been for too long.
Tell me where to send my application! I mean, I work full time, about to add a third kid, etc, but I'm happy to work on a hobby that I've been reading since the late 80's.
Cheers,
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I wonder if we see some Imperio Escorpion designs. Or even some of the Home Clans.
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Tell me where to send my application! I mean, I work full time, about to add a third kid, etc, but I'm happy to work on a hobby that I've been reading since the late 80's.
Cheers,
much like luther's conception of grace for the elected, randall's beard trimmings must sprinkle on you to attain the wisdom necessary for the task
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I wonder if we see some Imperio Escorpion designs. Or even some of the Home Clans.
Foxes have no acknowledged/known contact with the Homies . . . no sneaking in the backdoor for you.
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These aren't the Clan homeworlds. They're easier to sneak into.
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Tell me where to send my application! I mean, I work full time, about to add a third kid, etc, but I'm happy to work on a hobby that I've been reading since the late 80's.
Cheers,
Same here.
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Foxes have no acknowledged/known contact with the Homies . . . no sneaking in the backdoor for you.
As far as we know.
However, maybe the Home Clans return with the Imperio Escorpion`s invasion of the Hanseatic League.
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As far as we know.
However, maybe the Home Clans return with the Imperio Escorpion`s invasion of the Hanseatic League.
Something had to have gone badly wrong for them not to have nuked the Imperio in the 70 intervening years.
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Maybe we'll get a sidebar about some seeker wandering around the ruins of the homeworlds.
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As far as we know.
However, maybe the Home Clans return with the Imperio Escorpion`s invasion of the Hanseatic League.
I thought the date on that was 3142, so still not likely.
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Just a lore question...when a Hermes -4K (the 3058 DC export version) got a line in Tongatapu? The only mention that i can find to a mech line in that planet is from the XTRO: Marik set in 3080 with the Awesome -11M and clan-spec double heat sinks produced there by Technicron Manufacturing. Also is interesting thet the recognition guide named it "Technicron Manufacturing/IBMU". As far i know, Irian BattleMech unlimited was the only producer of the Hermes...in Irian. Probably they moved the line after IBMU factory got damaged during the Jihad, and after Irian was handed over to the RotS.
Bumping this question since I just stumbled across the answer, completely by mistake.
Objectives:FWL had some pretty major errata that I've never seen up until now, and Tongatapu is listed as having an Irian plant on the planet producing both Awesome and Hermes 'Mechs.
So the answer to that question is in 3077.
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Bumping this question since I just stumbled across the answer, completely by mistake.
Objectives:FWL had some pretty major errata that I've never seen up until now, and Tongatapu is listed as having an Irian plant on the planet producing both Awesome and Hermes 'Mechs.
So the answer to that question is in 3077.
How much Awesome does the FWL need, anyway? ;)
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How much Awesome does the FWL need, anyway? ;)
The answer is of course 'Yes.'
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How much Awesome does the FWL need, anyway? ;)
All of it!
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The FWL desperately needs all the Awesome it can get.
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The FWL desperately needs all the Awesome it can get.
Yep. Good Job too, hope it hurts...
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Getting pumped for Volume II tomorrow!
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I know first thing I'll be doing after getting home from work.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3oKIPa2TdahY8LAAxy/source.gif)
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Well, second thing for me. Gotta pour the beer first. :beer:
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Me RN checking the time and the store
(https://i.imgur.com/nFaARds.gif)
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BTW do we have a serie model Wolfhound made with Clantech so far?
(I know there was Phelan Kell`s Wolfhound IIC, but IIRC this was a unique Mech).
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Not even one that dabbles in mixed tech
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/26BRuo6sLetdllPAQ/giphy.gif)
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If last time was any indication, we have about four hours to go
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If last time was any indication, we have about four hours to go
:'(
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:'(
(https://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/owl-in-box-soon-meme.jpg)
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And it is here.
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And it is here.
Where?
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And it is here.
Dear god, were you spamming F5 lol? It was live less than a minute before I saw your post!
Catalyst Game Labs web store: https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-2 (https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-2)
DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/319042/BattleTech-Recognition-Guide-ilClan-Vol-2 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/319042/BattleTech-Recognition-Guide-ilClan-Vol-2)
(https://i.ibb.co/D9ZhDJm/Recog-Guide-Vol-02-display-cover.png) (https://ibb.co/Ycxm7CJ)
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Dear god, were you spamming F5 lol? It was live less than a minute before I saw your post!
Catalyst Game Labs web store: https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-2 (https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-2)
DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/319042/BattleTech-Recognition-Guide-ilClan-Vol-2 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/319042/BattleTech-Recognition-Guide-ilClan-Vol-2)
(https://i.ibb.co/D9ZhDJm/Recog-Guide-Vol-02-display-cover.png) (https://ibb.co/Ycxm7CJ)
No I happened to load Drive Thru and saw it pop up I was F5ing here looking for the announcement.
Love this book, looks great.
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Another great guide guys while i wish we could get all of these at once. I like how your doing it it kinda feels like I got a subscription to Janes Defense Weekly.
The Behemoth- Is as sexy as ever.
The Ostscout- I've never liked it but I like the 2 versions in the guide.
The Sojourner- Is neat, not flashy not the most bang for the buck but it's kinda like a Thunderbolt it shows up, gets the job done and has a good chance of going home in decent shape.
Grendel Omnimech- I like the new Grendel configurations and how you guys are using the flexibility of the omnimechs to keep them up to date.
Urbanmech- Trashcan of death with sleeker trashcanny look
Bushwacker-I like the art work and the weapon config looks solid but I've never been a fan of it.
Zeus-11S-I don't think you can squeeze anymore awesome out of the chassis at this point I'm gonna call it
The Zeus-11S is the best version of the Zeus ever change my mind.
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The mixed tech ostscout is objectively hilarious.
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I want a record sheet for the down graded Wolfs Dragoon version! >:D
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That was declared to be something that wasn't supposed to have been in the book in the Errata thread.
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That was declared to be something that wasn't supposed to have been in the book in the Errata thread.
I wonder why. Wolf's Dragoons got away with stranger things than that and I thought it was a nice nod to what appeared to be a SNAFU in the old Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook that lists the pilot and the machine.
Edit: Typo
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That is not errata.
Jaime wolf trolling the IS while on an op that would define his life and that of thousands—that is errata.
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I want a record sheet for the down graded Wolfs Dragoon version! >:D
Yes me too!
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I want a record sheet for the down graded Wolfs Dragoon version! >:D
…it was supposed to be in there.
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…it was supposed to be in there.
:o :o :o
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That is not errata.
Jaime wolf trolling the IS while on an op that would define his life and that of thousands—that is errata.
Ok. It's just Jaime's motivation behind it and not the presence of the Behemoth as such among the Dragoons that's errata'ed. That, I kinda agree with.
Though, playing devil's advocate, a case could be made for the Dragoon Compromise being a lukewarm excuse for not launching a Clan Invasion and Clan Wolf trying to derail it anyways. The entire outfit reeks if a dumping ground for nutcases, freeborns, and other misfits. Would explain sooo much about the Dragoons...
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It sounded like it was a prank that someone didn't want included.
Which is too bad because I'd love to see an Inner Sphere version of the mech.
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No sign of it. Curious what would be labelled. Only Rhinos missing is 2 & 3
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2 and 3 are Phoenix designs
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The Dragoon Compromise was an attempt to stall and detail and ultimately (as per Khan Ward in 3020) STOP an impending invasion. However the members who volunteered for the mission took it seriously. It was not a dumping ground, it was an opportunity for those people to prove themselves.
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The OTT-12R Ostscout looks to be one of those 'Mechs that will annoy many people at many tables. >:D
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The mixed tech ostscout is objectively hilarious.
How so? It seems to be a Protectorate machine?
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Just an 8/12/8 machine with stealth armor and a Clan ER Large Laser.
And I've got to say, the Sojourner looks great. I hope we get a mini for it soon.
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Well, it could have gone with a Clan ECM and gained a half ton of armor . . . not sure where 2 more DHS could have come from, but I can think of a few work arounds.
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So it seems they Horses also put the original Stone Rhino back into production during to 3100's if I'm reading this correctly?
I like that one of the notable pilots is the mech from the 3055 cover.
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The Grendel is super interesting for one reason: it's a super-rare glimpse of what Clan Sea Fox is doing in the Chainelanes.
I think it's the first confirmed 'Mech to be built there, and one of the first times we've gotten any sort of confirmation that the Foxes are still active there at all.
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How so? It seems to be a Protectorate machine?
+6 TMM at range and it controls the terms of engagement. The only thing it’s missing is a TC
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Well, it could have gone with a Clan ECM and gained a half ton of armor . . . not sure where 2 more DHS could have come from, but I can think of a few work arounds.
It literally does not matter when you're dancing at long range, jumping into heavy woods, and making your opponent try to hit you on Skill + AMM + 12.
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It literally does not matter when you're dancing at long range, jumping into heavy woods, and making your opponent try to hit you on Skill + AMM + 12.
So the STL armor is more for an emergency getaway?
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Also depends on what’s shooting at you. Aes + Er-x-double-cheeseburger pulse I’m probably keeping it on
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So the STL armor is more for an emergency getaway?
The STL armor is so that your 'Mech is struck by enemy fire if and only if you, personally, have ****** up in maneuvering or positioning, regardless of the enemy or their skill level. :P
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Also depends on what’s shooting at you. Aes + Er-x-double-cheeseburger pulse I’m probably keeping it on
For a regular unit with a -3 to hit weapon to hit you on 9s, you would have to have the following items happen
You somehow end up with a combination of terrain and tmm that only adds up to 4
You end in a position where they can walk into medium range
Which very much seems like operator error on the ostscouts part to me
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Not absolutely familiar with Endo-Composite but I am not sure it matters since its not supposed to get hit really. I think the real design choice is XL vs LFE though that makes it a upgrade off the -9S.
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For a regular unit with a -3 to hit weapon to hit you on 9s, you would have to have the following items happen
You somehow end up with a combination of terrain and tmm that only adds up to 4
You end in a position where they can walk into medium range
Which very much seems like operator error on the ostscouts part to me
I am excellent at producing operator error. A savant if you will
Not absolutely familiar with Endo-Composite but I am not sure it matters since its not supposed to get hit really. I think the real design choice is XL vs LFE though that makes it a upgrade off the -9S.
Endo composite is the light engine of structure. Clan crits for 25% weight reduction
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Endo-Composite structure is basically like Light Ferro-Fibrous armor- it's an intermediate between a standard structure and Endo Steel that takes up slightly fewer critical slots.
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If players are afraid of the Ostscout getting hit, then doing a 1-0-1 pattern, always jumping but turning the Stealth off when cooling off can also work.
Having a Ostscout -12R come up against a Wulfen C must be an exercises in frustration for all parties involved.
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:'( :'( :'(
Those Ostscout’s are close to what they should be, but still fall so short.
:'( :'( :'(
Ruger
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A neigh unhittable scout that can bite at range?
It’s exactly what an ostscout should be
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A neigh unhittable scout that can bite at range?
It’s exactly what an ostscout should be
Well it has hands so it should be able to cook some giant eggs while on a +10 overheat.
It isn't crippling but merely limiting, balanced really.
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:'( :'( :'(
Those Ostscout’s are close to what they should be, but still fall so short.
:'( :'( :'(
Ruger
Personally speaking, I love the Kuritan/Fed Sun version, though I would have gladly given up the X-Pulse for TAG along with something else.
But I just love TAG.
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A neigh unhittable scout that can bite at range?
It’s exactly what an ostscout should be
As Greekfire says, it’s missing TAG, and a scout should not be getting into battle. It should be scouting.
Ruger
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As Greekfire says, it’s missing TAG, and a scout should not be getting into battle. It should be scouting.
Ruger
I would be pretty steamed at having a four page spread dedicated to a 'Mech with no guns and no place in combat, so I think this sense of what makes a 'real' Ostscout takes second place to things people actually want to use.
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The combination of Clan Large Pulse Lasers and AES is lovely.
Given the dual requirements of a) being entirely intro-tech and b) miniature re-use, I'd imagine the intro-tech Behemoth is armed with AC/10s and Large Lasers. Of course, I'm also probably completely wrong
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the recordsheet for the baseline behemoth is missing the head mounted SPL
I want a record sheet for the down graded Wolfs Dragoon version! >:D
if it matches the old battledroid mini, it would be similar to the 5 but with IS introtech.. quad AC5's and sextuple Medium Lasers. likely with the JJ's sacrificed for SHS and keeping the 3/5 movement.
if it matches the new art, i'd guess LL's in the arms and AC10's in the torsos, and sacrificing the JJ's to fit extra SHS.
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As Greekfire says, it’s missing TAG, and a scout should not be getting into battle. It should be scouting.
Ruger
If I only get one gun in this this WYAIWYG ilclan world I’ll take a cERLL over TAG
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the recordsheet for the baseline behemoth is missing the head mounted SPL
Yeah, I reported that over on the Errata board.
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I would be pretty steamed at having a four page spread dedicated to a 'Mech with no guns and no place in combat, so I think this sense of what makes a 'real' Ostscout takes second place to things people actually want to use.
I mean, I would like for that "something else" to be a gun, but there are no fewer than four distinct Ostscouts that already have TAG so if this one doesn't have it it's really not the end of the world.
And it's a good jumpy scout with a Bloodhound, something that's been severely lacking from IS forces.
I honestly think the -8J is my favorite 'Mech in Rec2, even in its simplicity.
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What's a Hedgehog? ???
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What's a Hedgehog? ???
An old Tripod Mech.
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hedgehog
was an old tripod design from a early fan publication, made retroactively "broad strokes" canon a few years ago.
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I don't know whether it's been said before, but I love that one of the Stone Rhino notable units is literally the one from the front cover of original TRO 3055.
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That new UrbanMech may have the silliest movement curve ever. I love it.
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I would be pretty steamed at having a four page spread dedicated to a 'Mech with no guns and no place in combat, so I think this sense of what makes a 'real' Ostscout takes second place to things people actually want to use.
If I only get one gun in this this WYAIWYG ilclan world I’ll take a cERLL over TAG
Y’all do realize it’s entirely possible to give it both a TAG and a Clan-tech ER large laser, along with an Angel ECM and a Bloodhound active probe and stealth armor and even a pair of remote sensor dispensers, correct? And even upgrade the armor from what this version had?
Ruger
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It gets one “gun” port so it can’t have both tag and the erll, no. And it seems not very much is getting slapped on these that isn’t in the BMM so remote sensors are out.
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It gets one “gun” port so it can’t have both tag and the erll, no. And it seems not very much is getting slapped on these that isn’t in the BMM so remote sensors are out.
Since when does TAG need to be a gun?
But very well, use a recon camera instead and use the other half ton for something else (like more armor).
Ruger
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Btw, to the powers that be? Thanks for putting the 'Space Allocation' part in- I did not notice it in Rec Guide 1, but if I did not have the sheets I would be able to build a sheet for it from that information.
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I'm also amused by the name-drop of the Hedgehog. Here's hoping that we one day get a record sheet
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Since when does TAG need to be a gun?
But very well, use a recon camera instead and use the other half ton for something else (like more armor).
Ruger
Since two weeks ago when they established this precedent. Which is one until it isn’t. Also are recon cameras in BMM?
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An old Tripod Mech.
What he said, it actually appears in one of the source books as quick mention. Technology section of tripods in Interstellar Operations (rule book) where it's noted as the first Tripod BattleMech appearing in 2585
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I still think the Griffin C is the all star of the guides thus far. We’ll see if it can be dethroned in Volume 3!
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Since two weeks ago when they established this precedent. Which is one until it isn’t. Also are recon cameras in BMM?
No, they're not: they had the magic combo of super-niche employment and giant wall of text rules block that guaranteed an item's exclusion there.
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Ok that’s fine but what we get to base our assumption on is printed in the guides that started two weeks ago. Obviously there were guidelines in the creation but internal memos are irrelevant to us since they’re internal
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I have no idea what you're referring to, sorry: I'm just answering your question about recon cameras.
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It’s not your fault
I’m only borderline literate
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Sartis has speculated that the RecGuides are-
Match KS art gun ports
Follow rules in BMM
I think his assumptions are pretty valid.
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It’s held up for two of twenty-two so stay tuned
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Excellent stuff, and yeah whilst i'd like there to be more fluff about other Mechs rather than the huge speel about the Ostscout its still darn good and there was two name drops. This 'Hedgehog' and a 'dreaded' Jade Phoenix which i'm assuming will pop up at some point in the future!
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Hope so, or the Hedgehog could end up being in Golden Century, which would make a lot sense given this was last known operations of the Mech (canon wise).
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I finally got the first one and it's good. I cannot wait to see what the others will bring.
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No need to wait! #2 just came out!
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I've always preferred the Grendel over the shadowcat for the presence of MPL in some configs. Now that there is one with a LPL, there's no comparison.
AES / cLPL is not going to encourage light mech use. it does make the Sojourner stand out from the pack though.
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The Sojourner's 'gun arm' is a interesting twist on the Omni design . . . and a good application with the for 2 big guns on the arm- ERPPC &UAC10, 2 ERLPL, Large Pulse & RAC/2 . . . even the single guns are interesting, Gauss is that way b/c of crits- though the Plasma Cannon or ERLL could have gone there- and Heavy Large compensates for the -1TH from being a Heavy without explosive bits.
The Horse's Stone Rhino exists to kill the Falcon's Eyries, anything but Gyrfalcon w/reflec, and a lot of their other new stuff. It is a murder machine.
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No need to wait! #2 just came out!
This is a surprise for me then. I will check it out later then.
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Nice to see the Bushie and Gauntlet were actually linked.
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Nice to see the Bushie and Gauntlet were actually linked.
I was just about to comment that I liked that info as well
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Yes, I also feel there's an unusual amount of "historical" references and canon cleanup going on in these Recognition Guides. And I love CGL and the authors for it! :thumbsup:
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The Ostscout fluff text is amazing.
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I'm liking the Sojourner a lot. Maybe more than I should like a 60-tonner, but its the type of commonsense, well-thought out design that we don't see a lot from the Clanners, and its a nice change.
The update to the Bushwhacker is awesome, and I can't help but enjoy the confirmation that the Gauntlet and Bushwhacker are linked.
CGL is making it very very difficult to not want to buy one of every Lance, Star and Level II so far...
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Was there compromise with the Sojourner? I was surprised to see that it had a inferior standard Heavy Large Lasers verses the Improved version. Resources needy?
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Took the Sojourner out for a few test runs, ran it against similarly-BV'd Clan 'Mechs.
The Prime is pretty decent, though as with a lot of designs I wish it had a second ton of Plasma ammo.
The A, against all expectations, was pretty fun. Very accurate with its firepower, probably good at taking out lighter or more maneuverable 'Mechs. Cheap in BV so easier to field, don't really case about the Micros 'cause it's just a ton and they're good back-up crit-seekers if the RAC/2 jams. Just wish a third ton of PAC ammo had been scrounged up.
I can see the B having a small niche, but it got absolutely mauled by the Guillotine IIC it went up against. Not a config I'm a fan of, pretty pricey in BV for the damage it can put out.
The C is a nice fire support variant. Like the deep bins and it has enough sinks to bring the HLL into play in more of a direct combat role. Works well.
The D is a variant I really want to like, but it kept getting its right arm torn off before anything else, leaving it mostly neutered.
All in all, pretty interesting 'Mech. Bit fragile for a "tough" 'Mech; the 20 points of armor on the torsos or arms really gets stripped fast in Clan warfare, and the Sojourner ain't fast enough to keep the TMMs high to avoid that. Its probably a 'Mech that works best at bullying lighter or more fragile 'Mechs. I like it, though, it's interesting and I'm willing to forgive most of its faults because of that.
Was there compromise with the Sojourner? I was surprised to see that it had a inferior standard Heavy Large Lasers verses the Improved version. Resources needy?
Nothing said in the fluff about it. It does shave roughly 90 points off of its BV, and reduces the number of possible explosions on an already pretty explodish variant. I don't think it's a bad choice for what remains mostly a fire-support 'Mech.
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It's gonna be really hard to leave my Behemoth mini as it is, and not turn it into a 4 model, especially since it's a Jaguar Invasion-era machine, making it plausible for IS capture. :smitten:
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Was there compromise with the Sojourner? I was surprised to see that it had a inferior standard Heavy Large Lasers verses the Improved version. Resources needy?
Improved goes Boom . . . Sojourner is all about surviving, so reduction of things that can go boom in the chassis or their effect. The +1 is offset by the AES so it works out. I expect Sojourners are going to circle to an opponent's left to kind of shelter that right side and keep the gun arm in place.
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It's gonna be really hard to leave my Behemoth mini as it is, and not turn it into a 4 model, especially since it's a Jaguar Invasion-era machine, making it plausible for IS capture. :smitten:
I think that's the first time I've ever seen someone say that they want to field the Behemoth 4. I'm impressed.
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also, the Stone Rhino entry confirms it is named for a real animal in the Clan Homeworlds...
I realize most people probably never thought twice about it, but it has never actually been mentioned in canon before (AFAIK)
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I think that's the first time I've ever seen someone say that they want to field the Behemoth 4. I'm impressed.
If only it didn't have single heatsinks.
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Instead of Clan Stone Lion, maybe they should have gone with Clan Stone Rhino.
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Instead of Clan Stone Lion, maybe they should have gone with Clan Stone Rhino.
I always felt it was weird that they named the Stone Lions so close to an already existing name that also had Clan origins...but that's just my opinion
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I'm imagining a modern rhino, but with Precambrian-style bone plates around the head and forward torso.
Also, that it is much more nimble than it looks, occupying a niche similar to a mountain goat.
Also, skulls. Because.
Wait, wrong setting.
If only it didn't have single heatsinks.
I did not notice the heat sinks.
...meh. If I can handle a Fire Scorpion 2, I can handle this. Real warriors attempt shutdown rolls! Also, cheaper BV, so huzzah!
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My only wish right now is that the MUL was updated alongside these releases. It sounds like many of these are on the open market.
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Has there ever been an explanation (in-universe or real world) for the Behemoth 4's single heat sinks?
When I first saw it in RS:3055U I assumed it was a mistake, but now it's repeated here. ???
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I'm guessing that blueprints for an AS7-K fell into a black hole, resulting in them being sent back in time. They were then discovered by a Clan scientist who looked at them and said "switching to an XL engine and single heatsinks? Brilliant!"
Focusing on other mechs for a minute, I love the new Zeus. Never liked the Zeus X, so it's great to see the original getting some love in the 32nd century.
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also, the Stone Rhino entry confirms it is named for a real animal in the Clan Homeworlds...
I realize most people probably never thought twice about it, but it has never actually been mentioned in canon before (AFAIK)
The stone rhino (animal) is pictured in "A Time of War" p. 239.
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Has there ever been an explanation (in-universe or real world) for the Behemoth 4's single heat sinks?
When I first saw it in RS:3055U I assumed it was a mistake, but now it's repeated here. ???
If you look at the record sheet, there’s not enough consecutive critical slots for the fifth double heat sink outside the engine (counting the slots for the five heat sinks themselves, there are four open criticals in each arm, and one each in the head, CT and each leg). Each arm could take two double heat sinks with the rest of the equipment, but you’d have a double heat sink left over which could not be distributed in the remaining open space.
Edit: BTW, I’m simply amazed at the amount of machine gun ammo on that model. Really seems geared toward using rapid fire rules.
Ruger
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If you look at the record sheet, there’s not enough consecutive critical slots for the fifth double heat sink outside the engine (counting the slots for the five heat sinks themselves, there are four open criticals in each arm, and one each in the head, CT and each leg). Each arm could take two double heat sinks with the rest of the equipment, but you’d have a double heat sink left over which could not be distributed in the remaining open space.
But that can't be the main reason for it, 'cause then you could just go for 16 doubles and use the remaining ton on pretty much anything else.
In the Behemoth's MotW article they talk about it being from MechWarrior 2: Ghost Bear's Legacy....but I never played the game, and google didn't help me when I tried to find its stats.
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Since when does TAG need to be a gun?
But very well, use a recon camera instead and use the other half ton for something else (like more armor).
Ruger
The TAG is basically a laser that shoots a beam that missiles can home in on. We have that tech in real life.
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Frankly that Ostscout 12R feels like the ultimate scout killer. It can keep up with damn near any scouting unit, is stealthed, and has one of the longest-range guns in the game - which means its short and medium ranges are equally outmatching other scouts. Between a +4 jumping TMM and medium range stealth, that's going to make you nigh-unhittable for typical scout mechs trying to shoot back, and they can't escape your mobility. Use it as a screener and never look back.
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What gets me about Sojourner C is not that it's using a Heavy Large Laser when it could be using an improved model, but that an ER one would have been better overall. Not only would it be a better match for the LRMs in terms of range, but it could use both them and the laser without overheating
On the other hand, I have no idea what A is trying to do
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The TAG is basically a laser that shoots a beam that missiles can home in on. We have that tech in real life.
*ahem* I know that it is basically a glorified one ton laser pointer. My point is that it doesn’t necessarily need to be a gun barrel. It could be fully contained in the torso with only a minor opening (like a slit) for the laser to project through.
But whatever you think it should be should work for your games.
Ruger
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Frankly that Ostscout 12R feels like the ultimate scout killer. It can keep up with damn near any scouting unit, is stealthed, and has one of the longest-range guns in the game - which means its short and medium ranges are equally outmatching other scouts. Between a +4 jumping TMM and medium range stealth, that's going to make you nigh-unhittable for typical scout mechs trying to shoot back, and they can't escape your mobility. Use it as a screener and never look back.
Nahh, not accurate enough to be a scout-killer. Makes for a great harasser or raider, though.
Now if you want a light scout-killer, the Venom -9KC is your man. Shorter ranged, but tough and can reliably hit quick scouts.
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Having an 8-hex short range is de-facto accuracy though.
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On the other hand, I have no idea what [Sojourner] A is trying to do
With the AES on the LPL and precision ammo for the PAC, it should be pretty good at hitting fast things. Of course, the PAC/8 has all the range of an AC/20. It looks like it's designed to fight against Hell's Horses Mongol tactics.
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Having an 8-hex short range is de-facto accuracy though.
Yeah, and I totally get that, but I find that my scout-hunters are generally able to close the range pretty reliably; if they can't, it's because my opponent is choosing to stay back with them, which still still works in terms of preventing them from closing with their objectives. So in most cases I tend to prefer the short-ranged accuracy of pulse lasers.
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With the AES on the LPL and precision ammo for the PAC, it should be pretty good at hitting fast things. Of course, the PAC/8 has all the range of an AC/20. It looks like it's designed to fight against Hell's Horses Mongol tactics.
It's the variant I'm toying around with the most, mostly because it's cheap.
I've been loading a ton of Precision for the fast stuff and a ton of Armored-Piercing for the slow stuff.
If the RAC jams, run in with the ER Micros and go ham.
It's not threatening so doesn't get focused much, but can deal surprising amounts of damage just because of how often it hits with its weapons. I like it. It's quirky, but useful.
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If I can zap away at short range (8) and not even be IN range of medium pulse lasers, then I don't need to worry much. And like I said, 8/12/8 is fast enough to keep range open against nearly any scout machine, or pursue them - and easily outrun the typical 6/9/6 scout-hunter.
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The PAC-8 can get to 10 hexes! take that AC-20 fan club!
Wait, they have designs out that use alt ammo for PACs now? suh-weet. Imma need to look over my summer budget again. It's hard to read these posts and only dream about what y'all are looking at.
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The PAC-8 can get to 10 hexes! take that AC-20 fan club!
Wait, they have designs out that use alt ammo for PACs now? suh-weet. Imma need to look over my summer budget again. It's hard to read these posts and only dream about what y'all are looking at.
PACs have been able to use alternate ammo since they first appeared, but the Sojourner is the first design I've seen that looks like it was designed to use alternate ammo types rather than using the PAC for cheap firepower.
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but the Sojourner is the first design I've seen that looks like it was designed to use alternate ammo types rather than using the PAC for cheap firepower.
Yes, that is what I meant. Thanks!
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The example discussed in the Sojourner entry- 5 Sojourner Prime vs a Shrike w/other mechs and Falcon hovercraft. Getting a Shrike with another four mechs and 6-10 hovers in a lava field would be interesting. Gauss and ERLL for the mechs, plasma for mechs or hovers when its a good shot.
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The PAC-8 can get to 10 hexes! take that AC-20 fan club!
Wait, they have designs out that use alt ammo for PACs now? suh-weet. Imma need to look over my summer budget again. It's hard to read these posts and only dream about what y'all are looking at.
Yes, but their alternatives are fewer than ACs.
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So I glanced over the variant list and the record sheets for the new behemoth and was stuck trying to figure out which one was the one designed for space operations. Turns out I was stumbling over an art and lore gag. I knew one of them was modeled after the look of "Amaris' Folly" and had assumed it was the 7, because that matches the weapon placement on the Matar found in boondoggles.
But then I couldn't figure out which one was the space adapted one, so I went back and actually read it and realized the 7 was the space adapted one, and the one modeled after "Amaris' Folly" was the 5.
Because it's loosely modeled after the look of the battledroids behemoth, rather than the Matar we ultimately got in boondoggles, which itself was modeled after the Stone Rhino it was supposed to become specifically to divorce it from the Unseen.
It's like two art gags passing each other in the night, never quite touching, and here I am just wanting to know when we'll get stats for an Amaris' Folly that looks like the Stone Rhino 5. :D
Also the 7 is great and is wasted on space operations.
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The PAC-8 can get to 10 hexes! take that AC-20 fan club!
Wait, they have designs out that use alt ammo for PACs now? suh-weet. Imma need to look over my summer budget again. It's hard to read these posts and only dream about what y'all are looking at.
Alternate ammo types for PACs is in the TacOps errata.
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The Sojourner's 'gun arm' is a interesting twist on the Omni design . . .
I wish they had thought of or had the room to do that to the Warwolf & Wulfen
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I wish they had thought of or had the room to do that to the Warwolf & Wulfen
The Warwolf in particular seems well suited to it. I cannot recall though, can you pod AES? if you cannot, then it is hard to hit the same 27.5t pod out as the Timber Wolf, while mounting AES
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If you look at the record sheet, there’s not enough consecutive critical slots for the fifth double heat sink outside the engine (counting the slots for the five heat sinks themselves, there are four open criticals in each arm, and one each in the head, CT and each leg). Each arm could take two double heat sinks with the rest of the equipment, but you’d have a double heat sink left over which could not be distributed in the remaining open space.
Edit: BTW, I’m simply amazed at the amount of machine gun ammo on that model. Really seems geared toward using rapid fire rules.
Ruger
All the variants of the Stone Rhino in this are under sinked to some level. Some more so then others.
The 4 is fluffed as being the Jaguar test platform for this mech so that might be the justification for the single heat sinks. It must not have been meant for significant deployment. Maybe they had a lot of single heat sinks laying around and not being used...
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The stone rhino (animal) is pictured in "A Time of War" p. 239.
well how about that, I never noticed that before, and there doesn't appear to be anything that links to that picture either (ie. Sarna)
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The Warwolf in particular seems well suited to it. I cannot recall though, can you pod AES? if you cannot, then it is hard to hit the same 27.5t pod out as the Timber Wolf, while mounting AES
I don't think you can. The only two Omnis to so far use AES are the Doloire and Sojorner, and both have it as fixed equipment
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I don't have my copy of TacOps handy, but I'm pretty sure that the AES is not something that can be pod mounted.
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Also the 7 is great and is wasted on space operations.
This is more true than you think. The Behemoth 7 actually sucks at space ops, and when ALL mechs in space make their attacks at the same range bracket, only the reduced thrusters (jump jets) of the 6 prevents it from being infinitely superior as a space combatant.
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I'll admit I love a good 4/6 Clan heavy. Give me a Nova Cat, Night Gyr or Tundra Wolf any day (and twice on Sunday!). I should be all in on the Sojourner, but I just ain't feeling it. Mostly because while most of the good 4/6 Clan heavies trade speed for firepower, the Sojourner trades it for survivability. As a result most configurations seem under-gunned. They could all use an additional heat sink or two as well.
I definitely need to take them out for a test drive. Maybe they'll exceed my expectations, but right now I'm on the fence.
I think I'm just going to start calling the Grendel G the Wraith IIC, because that's exactly how I'm going to use it. Jump dirrectly behind someone, alpha strike, then jump away to cool. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
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I wish we'd seen a Sojourner config that doubled down on survivability and the AES in the right arm by mounting a shield on the left arm. I love the way that it looks like a Phantom that let itself go an put on 20 tons.
Cheers,
LCC
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I don't think you can. The only two Omnis to so far use AES are the Doloire and Sojorner, and both have it as fixed equipment
Then that's my bet, that they were aiming for the same 27.5t Podspace as its predecessor, that this was more important to the designer than mounting AES.
as for the Wulfen, well, there's scant little space available to do things like that with it.
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I'm a little surprised no one is talking about that new Bushwacker -- I really dug that one.
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Edit, Nevermind, I clearly cannot read.
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I'm a little surprised no one is talking about that new Bushwacker -- I really dug that one.
It looks pretty similar to a custom I used to run on occasion. It should play well
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I'm a little surprised no one is talking about that new Bushwacker -- I really dug that one.
The part of me that loves fire really digs it.
The part of me that loves dakka dakka really loathes it.
Ruger
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I'm a little surprised no one is talking about that new Bushwacker -- I really dug that one.
I don't have much experience with plasma rifles, but I dig it, although I do prefer the big AC most of the variants usually carry
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I think that's the first time I've ever seen someone say that they want to field the Behemoth 4. I'm impressed.
It's a decent design, let down only by the single heat sinks and the excessive MG ammo. But it's a test design so one can easily see DHS being added to production models and the mass saved used for extra stuff. There isn't room for Artemis in the torsos, but an extra pair of MGs in each arm, an ECM suite and 3 extra ERMLs would be feasible.
But I still like it as it is...good, but flawed. The way good designs should be
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*ahem* I know that it is basically a glorified one ton laser pointer. My point is that it doesn’t necessarily need to be a gun barrel. It could be fully contained in the torso with only a minor opening (like a slit) for the laser to project through.
But whatever you think it should be should work for your games.
Ruger
If I had to offer an explanation, I would tie this into the LRF spoofing system mentioned in one of the era report book..
Basically, the TAG is more than a glorified laser pointer...it's a very glorified laser pointer. I would suggest TAG systems use multiple beams with a sophisticated encryption/coding system design to stay ahead of a Mechs ability to spoof the system. A missile or weapon designed to use TAG would thus be able to select the correct signal to lock onto. All this requires extra mass, shielding, etc and so a simple slit isn't necessarily going to be the best option.
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Then that's my bet, that they were aiming for the same 27.5t Podspace as its predecessor, that this was more important to the designer than mounting AES.
as for the Wulfen, well, there's scant little space available to do things like that with it.
I thought it was a Pouncer that let itself go....but Phantom works better, since that one was Phelan's baby
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I don't have my copy of TacOps handy, but I'm pretty sure that the AES is not something that can be pod mounted.
Just checked you are correct
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I thought it was a Pouncer that let itself go....but Phantom works better, since that one was Phelan's baby
IMO it looks like a cross between a Ice Ferret and a Pouncer- the head definitely marks it as Pouncer.
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I'm going to start calling the Zeus 11S the "King Zeus" because ****** it blows every other Zeus variant out of the water and I don't think it's very close.
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I'm going to start calling the Zeus 11S the "King Zeus" because ****** it blows every other Zeus variant out of the water and I don't think it's very close.
Okay, I'm just gonna throw this out there.What if it is Zeus? The actual God Zeus, all pissed off that nobody cares about Zeus anymore? (https://youtu.be/VbKIH4E8hac?t=66)
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I'm going to start calling the Zeus 11S the "King Zeus" because ****** it blows every other Zeus variant out of the water and I don't think it's very close.
I love how this variant of the Zeus is now a 'scout' with the inclusion of the active probe.
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I'm going to start calling the Zeus 11S the "King Zeus" because ****** it blows every other Zeus variant out of the water and I don't think it's very close.
I agree, it does, but...
Clantech. It doesn't do it with style.
I love how this variant of the Zeus is now a 'scout' with the inclusion of the active probe.
mine says Role: Sniper
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At this point? There's little difference. I'm surprised the Gauss Rifle is not a HAG or a Clan tech Gauss.
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mine says
Lyran forces replace all roles with Scout.
It’s the only way they get any recon done.
CO: we need recon over that hill.
XO: 1st Battalion, scout over that hill. ASAP.
CO: Isn’t 1st Battalion our Assault Battalion?
XO: They all are, sir.
CO: Oh. Right, I knew that. They will be awhile then. Which medals do I wear to an informal dinner?
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At this point? There's little difference. I'm surprised the Gauss Rifle is not a HAG or a Clan tech Gauss.
All the other weapons are clan, why not the gauss?
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The new Grendel configurations appear to be "a death by a thousand cuts" configurations lots of little hits from them
Nice Spirit Cat/Clan Protectorate mention with the Ostscout
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All the other weapons are clan, why not the gauss?
Why politically influenced procurement decisions, of course! Somebody's trying to improve their government salary with private sector networking! ;D
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At this point? There's little difference. I'm surprised the Gauss Rifle is not a HAG or a Clan tech Gauss.
Many of the mixed tech ‘mechs are limited to only having clan tech that the faction is already shown to be producing (in the XTR series, 3145 or 3150 TRs for example). So if the Lyrams don’t haven clan guards rifles or HAGs, they can’t put one on a Zeus.
I don’t work on the Zeus, so I’m not sure that’s exactly what happened there. But you can’t just flip a switch to mixed tech and put whatever clan tech you want on an IS mech. You had to support your choices, where did that clan tech come from?
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Excellent series so far. The premise of updating the classic mechs that have featured so prominently in media over the recent years and will be coming in the clan invasion boxed set into the modern era is absolutely brilliant.
The Notable Mechwarrior writeup for Captain Deller Langdon really brought a smile to my face, and brought back fond memories of flipping back and forth between Ost pages in TRO 3025 so many years ago.
I am sold on the series now, hearty congrats to the writers and CGL!
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I did like bit of the Ostscout being dressed up as one of it's heavier cousins. I thought that was brilliant twist in the fluff!
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I did like bit of the Ostscout being dressed up as one of it's heavier cousins. I thought that was brilliant twist in the fluff!
I liked it too. But the moment a mechwarrior saw the suspected "Ostsol" jump 240 meters, I would hope they'd wake up pretty quickly to what the target might actually be!
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I'm not the most astute lore guy, but has the term Bloodhouse been used instead of Bloodname before?
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Bloodhouse is basically the political bloc of all the warriors that share a bloodname in a Clan, IIRC.
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I got a hold of vol.2 and really like the Sojourner a lot.
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Bloodhouse is basically the political bloc of all the warriors that share a bloodname in a Clan, IIRC.
Yes, they're extremely important within Warrior Caste politics. They're sort of the closest thing the Clans have both to political parties and noble houses, and they have some of the qualities of both. There's a great section in the old Warriors of Kerensky sourcebook that goes into detail on exactly why they're so important and powerful within the Clans.
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Blood Legacy show's how important Bloodhouse politics can be with Cyrilla Ward's machinations to make Phelan a Bloodnamed Warrior showing how the politics worked and the influence the head of a Bloodhouse could wield.
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It seem all that happened in those early novels were wiped out when the Clan separated into two Clan Wolves.
You now have the scrappy and desperate Clan in Exile with i guess mobile arks or something like the Sea Foxes cutting deal with Lyrans make Mechs like Lineholders and new Sojourner
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I liked it too. But the moment a mechwarrior saw the suspected "Ostsol" jump 240 meters, I would hope they'd wake up pretty quickly to what the target might actually be!
And for the unaware, it's also a direct reference to the original TRO:3025, which had the art between those two 'Mechs mixed up in their TRO entries. Great nod to the past, kind of like with the Behemoth reference for TRO:3055. I wonder if there are others I've missed.
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There's the line in the Ostscout entry about how Ostmechs never die they just change shape, which could be a nod to how the art for the Ostmechs has changed over the years. Going from Robotech Regult Battlepods to the TRO3025 art to the Project Phoenix art to the new Ostcscout art.
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There's the line in the Ostscout entry about how Ostmechs never die they just change shape, which could be a nod to how the art for the Ostmechs has changed over the years. Going from Robotech Regult Battlepods to the TRO3025 art to the Project Phoenix art to the new Ostcscout art.
Haha! I thought the same thing when I read this line.
It’s funny looking at TRO: 3085 and then the original art for the O-Mechs. Some radical changes!
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Did Recognition Guide II get an update with the new Errata yet?
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Did Recognition Guide II get an update with the new Errata yet?
Not yet.
I'm looking forward to that Introtech Behemoth myself. :thumbsup:
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You think they'll wait until entire series is done before updating errants found?
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Is there one out today or next week?
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Is there one out today or next week?
next week
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You think they'll wait until entire series is done before updating errants found?
No
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In the errata thread Ray posted "Will post corrected text and upload a new PDF when able."
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Have to admit to a bit of surprise noone has even mentioned the new Jade Phoenix omni or offered any speculation
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It's been mentioned (don't remember if it was in this thread), and I don't think we have enough info on it for any real speculation.
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In the errata thread Ray posted "Will post corrected text and upload a new PDF when able."
Yes I do believe I said (somewhere) that we’d have it out last weekend. What if didn’t see coming was how both the book developer and myself would be dragged down by our respective day Jobs over the weekend and throughout this week. I believe that everything is in/approved, I just need to take one last look and upload final files if that’s the case. Should be able to do so this weekend.
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our respective day Jobs
no eat. just battletech.
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That’s fine with me. But right now I’ve got four other dependents. Until I can monetize them or decide to cannibalize them, I need to sustain them. Sleep is what I’ve been giving up, and it’s killing me slowly.
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Have to admit to a bit of surprise noone has even mentioned the new Jade Phoenix omni or offered any speculation
It's been mentioned (don't remember if it was in this thread), and I don't think we have enough info on it for any real speculation.
Its been discussed as mentioned . . . we know its an assault, we know its a Omni, and the Prime has a HAG/30. Had to dig up what I had gleaned from the MM posts, which was pg 19 of Releases 16.
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That’s fine with me. But right now I’ve got four other dependents. Until I can monetize them or decide to cannibalize them, I need to sustain them. Sleep is what I’ve been giving up, and it’s killing me slowly.
Don't go cannibalize route, they scream and whine when you even pretend to eat their toes! ... Somehow going full yoga and chewing their own is ok (she's x>5 for a bit longer).
What is this sleep you speak of? I believe there is a conspiracy: SO puts tv on all night, kids get me up at daybreak.
As for BT? I can waaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiitttttttt for GC, I mean I can wait for KS, right?
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:thumbsup:
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Sleep is what I’ve been giving up, and it’s killing me slowly.
there was a study i saw a few years ago that said if you regularly got less than six hours a night, it was the cognitive equivalent to being legally intoxicated.
i have therefore been drunk since about 1997
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Sounds about right.
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Yes I do believe I said (somewhere) that we’d have it out last weekend. What if didn’t see coming was how both the book developer and myself would be dragged down by our respective day Jobs over the weekend and throughout this week. I believe that everything is in/approved, I just need to take one last look and upload final files if that’s the case. Should be able to do so this weekend.
Thanks! :)
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That’s fine with me. But right now I’ve got four other dependents. Until I can monetize them or decide to cannibalize them, I need to sustain them. Sleep is what I’ve been giving up, and it’s killing me slowly.
He's more coffee, than man now. Twisted and jittery.
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The Jade Phoenix is exclusive to mechwarriors of the Pryde bloodname.
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The Jade Phoenix is exclusive to mechwarriors of the Pryde bloodname.
And is the primary weapon an ER small laser of DOOM! ??
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And is the primary weapon an ER small laser of DOOM! ??
It's a permanent component on all of the configurations
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He's more coffee, than man now. Twisted and jittery.
(coffee lover’s) Mentat Mantra:
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java the thoughts acquire speed,
The hands acquire shaking,
The shaking becomes a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
;D
Ruger
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(coffee lover’s) Mentat Mantra:
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java the thoughts acquire speed,
The hands acquire shaking,
The shaking becomes a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
;D
Ruger
Can I get that on a T-Shirt? :D
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I would be surprised if there wasn't already one out there. Probably via teespring.
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Can I get that on a T-Shirt? :D
I have seen it on T-shirts, and of course, coffee mugs.
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Until I can monetize them or decide to cannibalize them, I need to sustain them.
Wife: "It's so cute you call our kids 'nuggets.'"
Me:
(https://i.ibb.co/hcQHJtL/dd0.png) (https://ibb.co/f96tzPq)
Sleep is what I’ve been giving up, and it’s killing me slowly.
Fast, for me! On topic: back to editing Rec Guide 3 through a migraine!
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On topic: back to editing Rec Guide 3 through a migraine!
So that's why the new Wolf omni is called the Scheolewr32$ W((((we ...
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So that's why the new Wolf omni is called the Scheolewr32$ W((((we ...
The funny thing is that is the correct spelling, but it's pronounced 'Steve'
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Hoping there is a secondary edit process, working through a migraine might mean it ends up in all CAPS and makes us feel like we're being shouted at!
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Hoping there is a secondary edit process, working through a migraine might mean it ends up in all CAPS and makes us feel like we're being shouted at!
Perhaps it’ll result in a return to form from the first printing of TRO:3058, which attributed “derastative repower” to the Alacorn. (Which is a direct quote from its crew after they finished readjusting the track with a freshly opened pyramid beer can for the 237th time that day.)
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So who's ready for a 3151 variant of the BattleMaster this Friday?
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Oh hell yes.
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Ha! Reminds me I need to try out in HMP the one I proposed.
A new Battlemaster is going to offer so many options . . . RE Lasers, Clan ERs on a FS machine (hey, Julian has recovered a few factories . . or Republic issue), Boosted C3, Angel ECM or perhaps even a Watchdog CEWS, MMLs instead of SRM Launchers, Small Pulse instead of MGs, and engine options.
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I think I'm looking forward to most everything. The only thing I can say I haven't cared for is the Wolf Heavy in the first one.
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I think I'm looking forward to most everything. The only thing I can say I haven't cared for is the Wolf Heavy in the first one.
The Dominator? Even Wolf views on the mech were mixed when it came out in the novella.
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As I start painting the plastic minis from the new box sets, I'm also reminded that the BattleMaster and Wolverine Minis are quite good. I'm currently painting the Beemer in Lyran Guard colors, so I'm particularly excited to see new variants with current tech for that one!
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The dominator is a heavy cavalry unit. They aren't that common in the clans (even though clan mechs are faster). It really plays to use position to its advantage, not all about withering firepower
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Timberwolf Prime, C, A, E are cav units . . . the Linebacker is . . . several mediums match its firepower level with a better movement curve.
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Can't wait for friday!
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The more I look at it the less I hate the bushwacker.
I mean, it isn't good, it's still a 5/8 XL medium, but it's got reasonable brackets and a broad toolkit to work with.
I've got a prejudice against 'wackers and I know it. Have since I saw the mess in '58.
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Never been a fan of the 1L, I take it?
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So who's ready for a 3151 variant of the BattleMaster this Friday?
pointedly says nothing
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pointedly says nothing
"Ah! He who speaks, does not know. He who knows, does not speak. Surely, you're masterful."
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"Ah! He who speaks, does not know. He who knows, does not speak. Surely, you're masterful."
(https://i.imgur.com/ISwAHy1.gif)
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Timberwolf Prime, C, A, E are cav units . . . the Linebacker is . . . several mediums match its firepower level with a better movement curve.
Don't forget the Gargoyle! Well, you can forget the Gargoyle Prime, and the B
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Don't forget the Gargoyle! Well, you can forget the Gargoyle Prime, and the B
I am a Invasion Wolf! My go to heavy cavalry mech is a Gargoyle! Unlike Lyrans, I believe 'assault' is a role and not a weight class.
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So you enjoy sending an 80 tonner to badly do a 60 tonner's job?
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So you enjoy sending an 80 tonner to badly do a 60 tonner's job?
I would expect a Wolf to stare back at you quizzically, and say "was that a question?"
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So you enjoy sending an 80 tonner to badly do a 60 tonner's job?
. . . the Mad Dog is not going to last as long as the Gargoyle? the Gargoyle does not cover up half its weapons to carry Elementals?
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. . . the Mad Dog is not going to last as long as the Gargoyle?
Except when it does by virtue of killing its opponents faster.
the Gargoyle does not cover up half its weapons to carry Elementals?
And neither one should be in playing Uber driver: leave that to the light and medium mechs that are faster.
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Except when it does by virtue of killing its opponents faster.
The Garg has better throw weight in most configs and the one that the Mad Dog has that can match it (C) is explosive and can run out of ammo. It typically has less things to go boom, which is a big deal since the Mad Dog has thinner armor which just makes the explosion problem worse.
And neither one should be in playing Uber driver: leave that to the light and medium mechs that are faster.
While a Bear might prefer a Fire Moth dropping off Elementals, the Wolves are fine with Gargoyles, Timber Wolves, Ice Ferrets and Adders. We are going to blow through and leave the Elementals there to harass you as the mech deliver fire support. Storm Crows, Kit Foxes, Novas and Mist Lynx are not too much faster . . . and lack the firepower to drive enemies off the Elementals' DZ.
To put this where it really belongs-
Okay . . . BOOOO . . . BOOOO . . . ugh
-6G has . . .
HPPC, 4 LPPC, 2 Small XP, SSRM6, 2 ER Smalls . . . ugh
Now the Heirofalcon Prime . . . seems like a med, has a HAG/20 in the RA with CASE . . . seems to confirm its a Falcon Clan design.
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And neither one should be in playing Uber driver: leave that to the light and medium mechs that are faster.
All omnis should be playing Uber driver, IMO.
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The Garg has better throw weight in most configs and the one that the Mad Dog has that can match it (C) is explosive and can run out of ammo. It typically has less things to go boom, which is a big deal since the Mad Dog has thinner armor which just makes the explosion problem worse.
The Man O War is heavily ammo dependent in every configuration but the A. And on the only configurations that really outgun most Vulture configurations it's also stuck with little to no long-range weaponry.
[/quote]While a Bear might prefer a Fire Moth dropping off Elementals, the Wolves are fine with Gargoyles, Timber Wolves, Ice Ferrets and Adders. We are going to blow through and leave the Elementals there to harass you as the mech deliver fire support. Storm Crows, Kit Foxes, Novas and Mist Lynx are not too much faster . . . and lack the firepower to drive enemies off the Elementals' DZ.[/quote]
A Puma has enough firepower and speed to blow through... but a Ryoken doesn't? I think I've figured out the problem: your TROs are apparently from an alternate universe.
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All omnis should be playing Uber driver, IMO.
"Your uber driver, Brad, will arrive in 38 minutes driving a turquoise Savage Coyote"
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The Man O War is heavily ammo dependent in every configuration but the A. And on the only configurations that really outgun most Vulture configurations it's also stuck with little to no long-range weaponry.
A Puma has enough firepower and speed to blow through... but a Ryoken doesn't? I think I've figured out the problem: your TROs are apparently from an alternate universe.
Huh? Besides the A, you also have the Garg D- 2 ERLLCs & 3 MPLs w/TC IIRC, 'Conal' 2 ERPPCs, C & T have 6 ERMLs which if all is used takes up most of their heat sink ability. The E has 4 HML (which is close to the C, 42 vs 40), the G's 4 ERML, the H has a HLL & 2 ERML,
As far as blow through . . . compared to a Fire Moth? Yes, but you also ignored the other 3 Wolf standards that were listed.
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Come now, the Gargoyle need not be discussed in this thread before issue #10!
A Puma has enough firepower and speed to blow through...
The Adder, otoh? ...seems about right 8)
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I’m interested to see if they can make a good WYSIWYG Shadow Hawk.
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Correct me if i'm wrong but it's book 3 this week right?
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Correct me if i'm wrong but it's book 3 this week right?
Yup, vol. 3. Almost through edit, heading to layout later this morning. On target for Friday afternoon, afaik.
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Yup, vol. 3. Almost through edit, heading to layout later this morning. On target for Friday afternoon, afaik.
Huzzah! And I assume Golden Century is still waiting on POD right?
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I’m interested to see if they can make a good WYSIWYG Shadow Hawk.
Seen the Royal?
But with the opens now and the weight saving? Either 5/8/5 or go like the Griffin and be faster 6/9/6, but you could have a FREX Plasma Rifle, TBolt 5, SRM2, and MVSPL or MREL which will be something with quite a bit of punch. Heck, a mobile brawler that is your survivable Boosted C3 spotter would be a different role too.
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I'm curious if BattleMaster BLR-6G will be included in the this release (Vol 3). The sneak preview of the all-ppc machine is nasty.
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Come now, the Gargoyle need not be discussed in this thread before issue #10!
The Adder, otoh? ...seems about right 8)
Speaking of a WYSIWYG Gargoyle--wouldn't an Twin ERPPC with underslung Twin ATM 6 work for the Prime? It would finally make use of the heat sinks....
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you can but you get all of two tons for ATM ammo
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I'm curious if BattleMaster BLR-6G will be included in the this release (Vol 3). The sneak preview of the all-ppc machine is nasty.
. . . a Battlemaster is on the cover of RCIII. The reason I dug up the -6G and found out its PPC-load is discussing what might come out.
Twin ERPPC? We already have two versions of that floating around (A & Conal) . . . maybe 2 ER Large Pulse & ATM6s instead.
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you can but you get all of two tons for ATM ammo
True--but when have the clans been concerned with battlefield longevity it terms of ammo loads? ;D
Myself, I would think Peeps over Streak 6's would be a great mixed WYSIWYG loadout, because you can do it while hauling a point of your elementals AND fire your weapons at range while closing. Win/win?
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I'm curious if BattleMaster BLR-6G will be included in the this release (Vol 3). The sneak preview of the all-ppc machine is nasty.
Color me uninformed. What sneak preview? What "all-ppc machine?" :drool: :drool: :drool:
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Seen the Royal?
The Royal has an extra laser and only four missile tubes instead of seven. Don't get me wrong it's better in every way, but it very much doesn't match the 2H.
I'm going to guess... Gauss, MML-5, iOS SRM-2, and... iHML, for giggles.
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The Royal has an extra laser and only four missile tubes instead of seven. Don't get me wrong it's better in every way, but it very much doesn't match the 2H.
I'm going to guess... Gauss, MML-5, iOS SRM-2, and... iHML, for giggles.
That would give it nice punch, for sure. Which has always been the Shad's achilles heel in most early configurations.
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Color me uninformed. What sneak preview? What "all-ppc machine?" :drool: :drool: :drool:
Look back a few pages but . . . HPPC, 4 LPPC, 2 Small XP, SSRM6 & 2 ERSL rear is what we have seen for the -6G.
But to Scotty . . . Yeah, the Royal is not gun port matching, but he did ask for a good Hawk. Lol, not sure its fair for you to guess- you played with some! So you might either know and tell or know & mislead . . . like a mini-Kit.
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I have seen absolutely nothing of new Shadow Hawk variants.
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Huzzah! And I assume Golden Century is still waiting on POD right?
Yes. Close-ish there, I think? Like I said in the Upcoming Releases thread just now, waiting on POD proofs to get to Ray for approval.
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I looked at the previews on drive thru. I'm waiting to purchase one until the Warhammer issue.
Does it include production year for these variants? I didn't see it in the file and wondering if I will have to wait for the MUL.
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I did not see any, but you can pick up some time frame info from the DA blurb. FREX, the Sojourner's introduction is linked the retreat from Arc Royal and the Ostscout 12R is at least after the Clan Protectorate and the 1st Protectorate Guardians in particular, and at least 3149 specifically.
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could fall anywhere between 3086 (beginning of the Republic / Dark Age eras - the icon on the sheets) to november of 3150 (date in the intro). clues in the text seem to indicate many are fewer than ten years old
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I did not see any, but you can pick up some time frame info from the DA blurb. FREX, the Sojourner's introduction is linked the retreat from Arc Royal and the Ostscout 12R is at least after the Clan Protectorate and the 1st Protectorate Guardians in particular, and at least 3149 specifically.
Colt, it is soooo hard to teach myself to say/think "For Example" when I see FREX, but I am trying. It's 1 million % better than someone using "prolly" or combining 'a lot' to "alot" (ok, that one is an easier typo/mistake) ... I am trying, and it at least makes sense, but the 21st century lingo is hurtin' me!
Back to ilCan, ya'll!
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Speaking of a WYSIWYG Gargoyle--wouldn't an Twin ERPPC with underslung Twin ATM 6 work for the Prime? It would finally make use of the heat sinks....
>:( Don't get me started on a WYSIWYG Gargoyle.
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>:( Don't get me started on a WYSIWYG Gargoyle.
Imp HLL, ERLL, 2 ATM6 w/2t ammo, Light Tag and Supercharger +1 DHS . . . w/o the Supercharger you can do 3t more stuff, but exploiting the Garg's already above average speed is a must. Running really cool until 15 hexes (realistically 10?) and then you just get into slamming damage on Falcon mechs- 16+10+36 possible from missiles . . . oh yeah, and TAG so friends can send the love.
I like that, have to set it up as a custom character ride- I thought about dual HLL, but the heat load with ATMs was a bit high . . . then again, if you drop the Supercharger and use RHS, then 2 iHLL and 2 ATM6 is workable.
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Guys, we're straying into custom layout territory here, might be better to move that side of the discussion to the Custom BattleMechs forum?
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Color me uninformed. What sneak preview? What "all-ppc machine?" :drool: :drool: :drool:
Here, Hammers apparently is using Crazy Hits Threat as way to sneak peep them in action.
Here here the post. (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=246.msg1630746#msg1630746)
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Woot! Game day for the new Recognition Guide! Excited for the new Beemers.
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Soon.
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But....how soon? :drool:
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Insufficiently soon for my own selfish desires.
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Now Available – Recognition Guide: ilClan vol. 3
(https://i.ibb.co/gzFDJ5c/Recog-Guide-Vol-03-display-cover.png) (https://ibb.co/vZvJk7M)
BattleMech Recognition Guide: ilClan, vol. 3
The march of technology across BattleTech’s eras is relentless—but some BattleMech designs never die. Each installment of this PDF-only series not only includes a brand new BattleMech or OmniMech, but also details Classic ‘Mech designs from both the Inner Sphere and the Clans, now fully rebuilt with Dark Age technology (3085 and beyond).
Allowing beloved units redesigned for the BattleTech: Clan Invasion Kickstarter to be competitive on “modern” battlefields, this series also includes in-universe development notes, battle histories, notable pilots, and record sheets for each ‘Mech.
Catalyst Game Labs web store: https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/copy-of-battletech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-3 (https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/copy-of-battletech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-3)
DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/320803/BattleTech-Recognition-Guide-ilClan-Vol-3 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/320803/BattleTech-Recognition-Guide-ilClan-Vol-3)
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Now Available – Recognition Guide: ilClan vol. 3
(https://i.ibb.co/gzFDJ5c/Recog-Guide-Vol-03-display-cover.png) (https://ibb.co/vZvJk7M)
BattleMech Recognition Guide: ilClan, vol. 3
Amazing :D
Hierofalcon is such a qt, loved it!
Now, with Shadow Cat III, the only missing mech sculpture from MWDA is Cyclops, right?
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Has someone somewhere decided to mock movement profiles this year? With the 2/2/3 last time and now a 6/9/10, I'm beginning to have serious concerns. I mean it looks more like a date than a movement profile.
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Has someone somewhere decided to mock movement profiles this year? With the 2/2/3 last time and now a 6/9/10, I'm beginning to have serious concerns. I mean it looks more like a date than a movement profile.
Improved Jump Jets and/or partial wings will do that.
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Good homage to Jim Holloway. Class. :thumbsup:
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Has someone somewhere decided to mock movement profiles this year? With the 2/2/3 last time and now a 6/9/10, I'm beginning to have serious concerns. I mean it looks more like a date than a movement profile.
We the Khan says "jump", the wise Falcon scientist says "how high?"
Cheers,
LCC
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The Puma illustration in the rulebook from the Solaris 7 map pack is now a canon configuration!
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Heirofalcon B: We can do missile spam too!
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Wait, someone finally remembered the Puma Solaris?
WOOHOO!!
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Someone also remembered the cover of Rolling THunder. :D
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I assume the Puma Solaris is the one with all the MGs (which is now the highest number on a canon 'Mech)?
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I assume the Puma Solaris is the one with all the MGs (which is now the highest number on a canon 'Mech)?
Tis a walking warcrime, and if you got it close enough, you could really caramalise a Mech!
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Not sure if this is errata, so I'll ask here. On past record sheets for 'Mechs with partial wings, the extra dissipation is noted in the heat data block. For example, with 10 double heat sinks the dissipation would be listed as 10 (23). The Heirofalcon's sheets don't add the extra 3 to the dissipation. Does this qualify as errata?
Also, I'm surprised it doesn't use laser heat sinks like the rest of the totem 'Mechs.
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I assume the Puma Solaris is the one with all the MGs (which is now the highest number on a canon 'Mech)?
16 ties it with the Juggernaut JG-R9T1 for the most
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Besides the Battlemaster, Shadow Cat III, and Heirofalcon what else shows in that book?
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Puma and Thor.
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Agree on the Holloway tribute.
Also, the BattleMaster entry on the SLDF facility on Ictus and the drone BattleMasters and Cyclopes has me wanting to know more.
Besides the Battlemaster, Shadow Cat III, and Heirofalcon what else shows in that book?
Adder and Summoner.
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There's also that Snow Raven bunch being wiped out by a jet black marauder which makes me think its that one with the teeth!
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Puma and Thor.
Adder! Summoner! Barbarian!
But thanks for letting me know.
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There's also that Snow Raven bunch being wiped out by a jet black marauder which makes me think its that one with the teeth!
They deserve it for the 3rd Crucis Lancers. Not that I'm mad, or anything. ::)
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Adder! Summoner! Barbarian!
But thanks for letting me know.
Eh, I've been Combine basically since Heir to the Dragon was released, so they'll remain with their IS reporting names for me.
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Eh, I've been Combine basically since Heir to the Dragon was released, so they'll remain with their IS reporting names for me.
I generally just use their tro 3050 names out of spite
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Some IS names are better :D Fenris, Uller, Black Hawk etc, all good names!
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Some IS names are better :D Fenris, Uller, Black Hawk etc, all good names!
Behemoth.
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The second Notable Warrior for the Summoner weirds me out. They've got Horse's name, and Horse's 'Mech, but Horse was in the Homeworlds. And they have a Bloodname.
Maybe it's his dad?
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The Nicolai Mathus notable pilot was great. ;D
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Did Horse stay in the Home Worlds?
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Did Horse stay in the Home Worlds?
Yeah, there's a short story in 25 Years of Art and Fiction that has him on Marshall in 3069.
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pretty sure he was at Tukayyid?
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The second Notable Warrior for the Summoner weirds me out. They've got Horse's name, and Horse's 'Mech, but Horse was in the Homeworlds. And they have a Bloodname.
Maybe it's his dad?
Welcome to kickstarter characters, enjoy your stay.
https://characters.battletech.com/canon-characters/tyle-malthus
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The Hierofalcon looks to be a nasty little beast, like a Shadow Cat but more so. I like the use of Partial Wings without fixed Jump Jets there. Though I am kind of surprised there's no config with Talons
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Welcome to kickstarter characters, enjoy your stay.
https://characters.battletech.com/canon-characters/tyle-malthus
Ahhhh, gotcha.
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The Battlemaster 6G seems like a side grade to the Warlord 2D, which must be about 60 years older. I see the Beemer has better crit seeking, at the cost of anemic point blank firepower. Thoughts?
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Looking at greekfire’s errata report for the BattleMaster C 3, I’m guessing two of the ERMLs are supposed to be rear-facing to make it WYSIWYG-compliant with the mini
Also if you’re worried about WYSIWYG taking over BattleTech, note that one of the variants for the puma wants you to imagine one of the erppcs as a RAC/2. Mental gymnasts: go! ;D
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Positives of this volume: More Battlemaster.
Negatives of this volume: Not enough Battlemaster.
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Thank you to whomever designed the Hierofalcon. It's the 6/9 medium Omni my Falcon's have been missing.
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Agree on the Holloway tribute.
Also, the BattleMaster entry on the SLDF facility on Ictus and the drone BattleMasters and Cyclopes has me wanting to know more.
Adder and Summoner.
Wait... what drone BattleMasters? Cool
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Doesn't some art for er PPCs have a sort of triple emitter?
Looking at greekfire’s errata report for the BattleMaster C 3, I’m guessing two of the ERMLs are supposed to be rear-facing to make it WYSIWYG-compliant with the mini
Also if you’re worried about WYSIWYG taking over BattleTech, note that one of the variants for the puma wants you to imagine one of the erppcs as a RAC/2. Mental gymnasts: go! ;D
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The lasers are all torso mounted
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Positives of this volume: More Battlemaster.
Negatives of this volume: Not enough Battlemaster.
Added bonus: Robot BattleMaster!
Negative bonus: No official stats for Robot BattleMaster
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The puma T is not what I expected. But it works, and even gets use out of the second ppc in a volley pattern.
Is the pic for the shadowcat flipped? because I see lasers in the right and a gauss in the left, while the sheet has it the other way.
Hierofalcon A. Well, I was wondering when that movement profile would be combined with one or more LPL. Wanna bet it'll be banned from a few tables?
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The puma is not what I expected. But it works, and even gets use out of the second ppc in a volley pattern.
Is the pic for the shadowcat flipped? because I see lasers in the right and a gauss in the left, while she sheet has it the other way.
This puma sounds interesting like a Piranha on steroids im looking forward to Monday when I buy this edition
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One moment of personal joy: the Thor AA is a thing of beauty -- it fixed the ammunition issues of the A and added a fun toy. Praise be!
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The Puma T strikes me as a fantastic way to cook yourself
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Or it is a 35 ton Mech than can fire a 20 point weapon every turn.
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The Puma T strikes me as a fantastic way to cook yourself
It strikes me as the opposite. Sure, you can't use both PPC at the same time, but
fire one regular as the other charges,
fire a 20 pointer
fire a regular as the first charges.
That's a heat neutral pattern.
you can even fire a 20 pointer for a few tuns in a row before facing to-hit penalties. And if heat does get out of control there is the coolant pod to fix it. Or use the pod on a turn where you fire both PPC and you're still in the game next turn.
I was expecting one of the PPC to be replaced with an ER pulse. This is better.
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pretty sure he was at Tukayyid?
He was, but he returned the Homeworlds during the Twilight of the Clans series and apparently never left them again.
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The Adder's notable confuses me. If he's of the first sibko to graduate using Phelan's DNA, where do the other Wolf Kells come from?
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Which era is the pilot in? Phelan kept his DNA out waiting on Ranna . . . but they should have mixed their genes in the Iron Wombs in 59 or 60, so late Jihad the Warden's breeding program starts churning out warriors. BUT . . . I guess some Kell sibko members could have 'graduated' when Blakists landed on Arc Royal?
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Is the pic for the shadowcat flipped? because I see lasers in the right and a gauss in the left, while the sheet has it the other way.
art, write up and record sheet all show 2xMPL in the RA, Gauss in the LA...
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TBH, it says he's spoken out against reunification between the Wolves and the Abjured, but not when. The tense is present though.
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Positives of this volume: More Battlemaster.
Negatives of this volume: Not enough Battlemaster.
Not enough? By my count, there are now more official record sheets for BattleMasters than any other 'Mech: I make it 25 generic versions and 4 unique ones. The Marauder has 23 generic but only 2 unique and while the Atlas dose have 5 unique, there's 'only' 20 generic versions.
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The Puma T strikes me as a fantastic way to cook yourself
The Adder T is the Clan warrior caste equivalent of stand-up comedy.
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Not enough? By my count, there are now more official record sheets for BattleMasters than any other 'Mech: I make it 25 generic versions and 4 unique ones. The Marauder has 23 generic but only 2 unique and while the Atlas dose have 5 unique, there's 'only' 20 generic versions.
Still not enough.
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The Adder T is the Clan warrior caste equivalent of stand-up comedy.
Its got only slightly less heat woes than the Puma Prime which you can't even really bracket fire unless you just use one of the ER PPC's at which point the other is useless dead weight.
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Was that a reference... to Langstrom's 'Black Marauder' in the Thor/Summoner entry?
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Who is Langstrom?
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Who is Langstrom?
Believe it's the Black Marauder Battlecorp story.
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Who is Langstrom?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Black_Marauder
Starring in a trio of BattleCorps stories, the Black Marauder has the reputation of possessing the soul of its pilot and feeding on human blood.
Or maybe Langstrom just went nuts.
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Who is Langstrom?
Kevin Langstrom, pilot of a MAD-3R acquired under strange circumstances and known in-universe as the Black Marauder.
Basically, a series of BattleTech horror stories of sorts told by unreliable narrators about a possibly jinxed or outright demonically possessed sentient BattleMech, with just enough wiggle room explanations that the reader is left with enough potential doubt to consider the possibility that someone is lying or the pilot is just horrifically demented, cruel and insane.
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Interesting Langstrom reappeared in later age. Which is cool, i always like having slight element of beyond explaining in the universe. As long as it's doesn't dominate the game. Mystism isn't bad.
Anyways, HieroFalcon is going be big surprise for people when it get up in someone's behind. :D
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Interesting Langstrom reappeared in later age. Which is cool, i always like having slight element of beyond explaining in the universe. As long as it's doesn't dominate the game. Mystism isn't bad.
Anyways, HieroFalcon is going be big surprise for people when it get up in someone's behind. :D
Might not be Langstrom at the helm. It might not even be the Black Marauder. All we know is that a Clan Star went and got themselves killed under exceedingly mysterious conditions, records are being covered up and that a black Marauder operating out of smoke was supposedly involved in their destruction.
I wouldn't object if it WAS the OG Black Kevin given that the TRO entry is written with all the hallmarks of the Black Marauder stories, but as with the original fiction, the data is dubious enough to cast doubt if one were to look at it another way.
As to the Hierofalcon, glad to see I'm not the only one who looked at it and went 'Angry Proctology Bird'.
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Black_Marauder
Starring in a trio of BattleCorps stories, the Black Marauder has the reputation of possessing the soul of its pilot and feeding on human blood.
Or maybe Langstrom just went nuts.
I wasnt aware of the story quite interesting
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He was, but he returned the Homeworlds during the Twilight of the Clans series and apparently never left them again.
Oh I see, he didn’t come back to the IS. I read it as “never came in the first place”
Champion level reading comprehension wins again
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Having looked through Volume 3 again, I think the Adder is the big winner here, at least for me. The only configuration I don't like is the K, and that's only because the ammo for the RAC is a bit light.
I like the Hierofalcon and the Shadow Cat III, but not as much as the Adder configs.
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Are we being told something about the Star Adders in the Adder entry?
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Black_Marauder
Starring in a trio of BattleCorps stories, the Black Marauder has the reputation of possessing the soul of its pilot and feeding on human blood.
Or maybe Langstrom just went nuts.
The Black Marauder was simply a Clan Wolverine back ops. ;)
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Are we being told something about the Star Adders in the Adder entry?
I think the bit about the Adder being a Star Adder creation is new (but not particularly surprising), but I don't see any hints toward what the Adders might be up to in the 3150s.
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The Black Marauder was simply a Clan Wolverine back ops. ;)
Or a CthuluTech crossover
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I wasnt aware of the story quite interesting
So a black Marauder operating somewhere near the Raven Alliance, wiping out entire clan Stars, perhaps single handedly? I love it. The duplicitous Snow Ravens deserve a little terror!
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Also if you’re worried about WYSIWYG taking over BattleTech, note that one of the variants for the puma wants you to imagine one of the erppcs as a RAC/2. Mental gymnasts: go! ;D
As far as I understand it, only one new configuration, the T it seems, is sticking to the WYSIWYG, there's no such restraint on the rest.
Are we being told something about the Star Adders in the Adder entry?
Nope, Adder production in the IS is being run by the Exiled Wolves.
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I think the bit about the Adder being a Star Adder creation is new (but not particularly surprising)...
That's from TRO: 3050 Upgrade.
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As far as I understand it, only one new configuration, the T it seems, is sticking to the WYSIWYG, there's no such restraint on the rest.
Nope, Adder production in the IS is being run by the Exiled Wolves.
And Lyran Commonwealth on Donegal.
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If what we've seen in the first 3 volumes continues to be the norm, only each volume's unseen 'Mech will get 2 WYSIWYG variants. The rest of the Kickstarter 'Mechs will only get one.
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Looking at the Heirofalcon, the center torso looks almost like the Arbalest Mech.
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To me it strongly resembles the MWO Black Lanner.
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If what we've seen in the first 3 volumes continues to be the norm, only each volume's unseen 'Mech will get 2 WYSIWYG variants. The rest of the Kickstarter 'Mechs will only get one.
after consulting with the list i made, i concur ;D
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Haven't seen anyone mention the Thor T yet. Seems like a bit of an oddball.
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underwhelming. as a long-range skirmisher, it only hits for 15 + 5 + 5 + 5. the PAC/8 doesn't give you a whole lot of incentive to close
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I don't think there was much they could have done to it and remain WYSIWYG.
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they weren't going for a ton of options so there doesn't really need to be
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I don't think there was much they could have done to it and remain WYSIWYG.
Same, they'd have to have changed the PPC out to something else. And there really isn't any other options for the missile pod besides something like 5 ATM-3s or 3 MML-5s. But why would you do that?
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Or a CthuluTech crossover
Perhaps both. :o xp
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It kills me that the Beemer 3M dropped an MG for CASE instead of half a ton of the MG ammo ??? When did that design originate? The only sane reason would be that it predates the half ton ammo rule.
Cheers,
LCC
PS I know expecting sanity is folly when it comes to canon designs.
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underwhelming. as a long-range skirmisher, it only hits for 15 + 5 + 5 + 5. the PAC/8 doesn't give you a whole lot of incentive to close
I think the point is that it's NOT a long-range skirmisher. 8-points is not a big smashing gun, but it's still a solid chunk of damage you've got no reason to not use. The multiple bins means you can play with ammo shenanigans, or try to rapid-for the gun without worrying about losing a very big chunk of firepower if it jams.
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The PAC-8 doesn't fit how the Prime fought. It's range sucks and can't do what the Prime could with the LB-10-X. If I wanted a jumper with an ER PPC, I'd find a medium mech. The Prime brings a full fight to the battle. The T isn't as good as the Prime at doing that. It didn't do for the Prime what the AA did for the A variant. The A variant was always underwhelming because of the ammo nonsense. Now it's a beast!
But, can the PAC carry specialty ammo and what would be available to the clans?
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PACs can use specialty ammo. Rules are in the Tac Ops errata and latest version of Tac Ops.
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The PAC-8 doesn't fit how the Prime fought.
So? Nobody said the T configs were going to fight like the Primes, only to look like them. If you're looking for something that fights like a Thor Prime, the solution is to just use a Thor Prime.
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The PAC-8 doesn't fit how the Prime fought. It's range sucks and can't do what the Prime could with the LB-10-X. If I wanted a jumper with an ER PPC, I'd find a medium mech. The Prime brings a full fight to the battle. The T isn't as good as the Prime at doing that. It didn't do for the Prime what the AA did for the A variant. The A variant was always underwhelming because of the ammo nonsense. Now it's a beast!
It doesn't have to fight how the prime fought. Because it doesn't replace the Prime.
Seriously, it's an omnimech. It can be lots of things.
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It doesn't have to fight how the prime fought. Because it doesn't replace the Prime.
Seriously, it's an omnimech. It can be lots of things.
This.
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The PAC-8 doesn't fit how the Prime fought. It's range sucks and can't do what the Prime could with the LB-10-X. If I wanted a jumper with an ER PPC, I'd find a medium mech. The Prime brings a full fight to the battle. The T isn't as good as the Prime at doing that. It didn't do for the Prime what the AA did for the A variant. The A variant was always underwhelming because of the ammo nonsense. Now it's a beast!
But, can the PAC carry specialty ammo and what would be available to the clans?
Personally, I rather like what I did with the Model T down in the Recognition Guide fan design thread.
But I’m admittedly biased with that.
Ruger
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It kills me that the Beemer 3M dropped an MG for CASE instead of half a ton of the MG ammo ??? When did that design originate? The only sane reason would be that it predates the half ton ammo rule.
The -3M is positively *ancient* and was the featured variant in 1990's TRO:3050.
As for why...it was TRO:3050. That should be enough to explain things.
The PAC-8 doesn't fit how the Prime fought. It's range sucks and can't do what the Prime could with the LB-10-X. If I wanted a jumper with an ER PPC, I'd find a medium mech. The Prime brings a full fight to the battle. The T isn't as good as the Prime at doing that.
On the flip side, the T deals, on average, the same damage as the Prime could at better ranges—albeit yes, with fewer clusters. If you choose slug rounds, then the T loses 4 damage at range, but with the same number of clusters as the Prime. The T still has much better ammo endurance in either scenario, though.
Since damage output is so similar, that does mean that the PAC-8 has the luxury of being used as a tertiary gun on the T. You can use it to deliver a combination of Flechette and Armor-Piercing rounds as needed. Worst comes to worst, use standard rounds, and you'll outdamage the Prime at short ranges.
But yes, the PAC is pretty awful as a weapon system.
I'm curious, though—why did the letter T get chosen for these designs?
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The Puma T has promptly been christened the 'Clan Combat Sauna (and weight loss regime)' by the local group.
It's a hilarious design and I so look forward to slapping people with long range AC20s.
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I don't really get the "Sniper" tag on this thing. It's an Ambush unit, through-and-through. Sit still, charge the capacitors, fire for 40 damage, and hide until heat dissipates. I can't see any other way for it to operate. Certainly it won't be sitting at 23 hexes, plinking away for a cycle of 2-1-2-1 with ER PPCs while it stands still.
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I think it is supposed to be 20 point shot followed the next turn by another 20 point shot and the other capacitor charges rinse and repeat.
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I don't really get the "Sniper" tag on this thing. It's an Ambush unit, through-and-through. Sit still, charge the capacitors, fire for 40 damage, and hide until heat dissipates. I can't see any other way for it to operate. Certainly it won't be sitting at 23 hexes, plinking away for a cycle of 2-1-2-1 with ER PPCs while it stands still.
Taking its shot and then relocating is still pretty snipery.
I think it is supposed to be 20 point shot followed the next turn by another 20 point shot and the other capacitor charges rinse and repeat.
Rinse and overheat you mean? A charging or charged capacitor still generates heat, and that firing pattern is still exceeding what the mech can dissipate. It's not something he can keep up for very long before losing too much accuracy to be effective and too much speed to evade whoever comes after him.
Nah, the T sounds like a Trial mech. Fighting against a similarly sized mech, you stay conservative in your tactics until the right moment, then give him both guns to hopefully end it quickly with a good artistic flourish to get the viewers talking.
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I don't really get the "Sniper" tag on this thing. It's an Ambush unit, through-and-through. Sit still, charge the capacitors, fire for 40 damage, and hide until heat dissipates. I can't see any other way for it to operate. Certainly it won't be sitting at 23 hexes, plinking away for a cycle of 2-1-2-1 with ER PPCs while it stands still.
the adder prime is a sniper as well.
it's how snipers are classified (generally - since there aren't hard and fast rules and exceptions are intentionally made, you can only track tendencies... see the solitaire).
it's not a scout
it's not a striker (there are some 6/9 light strikers but not many clan ones. also it hits way too hard)
it's not a skirmisher (none under 40 tons)
it's not a brawler (no short-range weapons)
it's not a juggernaut (too fast, too fragile)
it's not a missile boat (doesn't have ~20 LRM tubes)
ambushers aren't really a thing. it's almost a wasted label.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=112&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=
so that leaves one thing. snipers are more "things that hit hard from a real long way away" rather than "turrettech")
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I don't really get the "Sniper" tag on this thing. It's an Ambush unit, through-and-through. Sit still, charge the capacitors, fire for 40 damage, and hide until heat dissipates. I can't see any other way for it to operate. Certainly it won't be sitting at 23 hexes, plinking away for a cycle of 2-1-2-1 with ER PPCs while it stands still.
The definition of Ambusher is "Ambushers are typically slow, lightly armored, and prefer short-range engagements." (CO p57)
The definition of Sniper is "Snipers prefer to find a good “sniper’s nest,” sit still and fire at long range. Some Snipers rely on range, stealth or cover for defense, while others rely on armor." (CO p58).
Sniping and then taking cover is still a sniper.
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Fire a PPC with capacitor one round, fire the other PPC while charging the capacitor the next. Use the coolant pod if you ever have to fire both guns.
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Fire a PPC with capacitor one round, fire the other PPC while charging the capacitor the next. Use the coolant pod if you ever have to fire both guns.
Edit: Math was wrong :)
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To fire an ER PPC + Capacity + Charge = 35 heat. So next turn you are at +13. Then +0 if you just fire the ER PPC + Capacitor charge. That's not going to work under any BattleTech scenario. That "sniper" would be worthless in its role.
Charged PPC firing costs 15+5 heat.
Charging the other PPC only costs 5 heat.
25 heat. +3 heat.
Adder Prime firing both PPCs. 30 heat. +8.
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Charged PPC firing costs 15+5 heat.
Charging the other PPC only costs 5 heat.
25 heat. +3 heat.
Adder Prime firing both PPCs. 30 heat. +8.
Ah, Ok. You're correct. That can work then. Not very good, but it can work.
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Not very good, but it can work.
Agree completely here.
EDIT: Does anybody let a capacitor start the game charged? How many people would use the Adder T as charge both first turn, fire both second turn and coolant pod, then start alternating? Versus fire 1 first turn and change 2, then alternate each turn and coolant pod when the heat gets to be too much for you?
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...I think a better question is why is anyone starting a game where ER PPCs are in range for non-throwaway shots on the first turn? Postage stamps are for mail not for BattleMechs!
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EDIT: Does anybody let a capacitor start the game charged? How many people would use the Adder T as charge both first turn, fire both second turn and coolant pod, then start alternating? Versus fire 1 first turn and change 2, then alternate each turn and coolant pod when the heat gets to be too much for you?
Works well in an ambush situation. Start hidden or move up behind a hill/cover. Once a good target gets under 7 hexes, let loose.
It’s also a commander or sniper’s weapon — allows a unit in open terrain with a low gunnery skill to really make difference without risking themselves in close combat.
We need some cannon designs that intelligently combine capped Clan ER PPCs with TC/AES and/or RHS!
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And Lyran Commonwealth on Donegal.
Actually, its Warden Wolf factories on Donegal . . . which may or may not be present in 3150.
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Agree completely here.
EDIT: Does anybody let a capacitor start the game charged? How many people would use the Adder T as charge both first turn, fire both second turn and coolant pod, then start alternating? Versus fire 1 first turn and change 2, then alternate each turn and coolant pod when the heat gets to be too much for you?
It's only got one coolant pod. And while I wouldn't let it start the game with the capacitors charged, I don't think it matters much since it's pretty rare for a mech to have LOS and range to an opponent's mech on the first round.
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EDIT: Does anybody let a capacitor start the game charged? How many people would use the Adder T as charge both first turn, fire both second turn and coolant pod, then start alternating? Versus fire 1 first turn and change 2, then alternate each turn and coolant pod when the heat gets to be too much for you?
Gonna try alternating, myself. That should give me an end result of maybe four to six turns of 20-point hits before the heat forces me to back off. Pointed at the right target, that should be good enough.
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...I think a better question is why is anyone starting a game where ER PPCs are in range for non-throwaway shots on the first turn? Postage stamps are for mail not for BattleMechs!
I think we can comfortably assume that when folks say 'first turn' in this context, they're talking about the first combat turn, regardless of how many no firing maneuver turns took place before that.
Regarding the coolant pod, I think I'd probably try to save it for good shots at closer range, where both guns are more likely to hit.
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Agree completely here.
EDIT: Does anybody let a capacitor start the game charged? How many people would use the Adder T as charge both first turn, fire both second turn and coolant pod, then start alternating? Versus fire 1 first turn and change 2, then alternate each turn and coolant pod when the heat gets to be too much for you?
In most games I play, it doesn't matter as you have time to charge it before entering combat.
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We need some cannon designs that intelligently combine capped Clan ER PPCs with TC/AES and/or RHS!
The Sojourner might be a good place to start, with the Exiled Wolves likely having earlier access to advanced IS tech through the Lyran MIC.
Cheers
LCC
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I think we can comfortably assume that when folks say 'first turn' in this context, they're talking about the first combat turn, regardless of how many no firing maneuver turns took place before that.
Regarding the coolant pod, I think I'd probably try to save it for good shots at closer range, where both guns are more likely to hit.
Normally, yes, but what you quoted was a response to someone asking whether anyone let 'Mechs start with PPC Capacitors charged. Something that's only relevant if it's the actual first turn of the game.
To answer _that_ question, IIRC the capacitor is energise at WS-II, but you need to be at WS-III to start the scenario with it fully charged.
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...WS-II...WS-III...
Did I miss an acronym? ???
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Did I miss an acronym? ???
It was meant to be a Star Fleet Battles joke. Weapon Status tells you how much preparation the starships have had to the start of the scenario, ranging from 0 (been ambushed) to III (expecting combat iminently)
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Ah.
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Same, they'd have to have changed the PPC out to something else. And there really isn't any other options for the missile pod besides something like 5 ATM-3s or 3 MML-5s. But why would you do that?
Neither combo fits thanks to 2 fixed Ferro crits. The ATMs need 10 slots, MMLs need 9 slots. Clan XL and 2 Ferro crits leave only 8 slots.
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Phew, the Shadow Cat III's C config really is something. Simple and brutal. A config is also good.
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Neither combo fits thanks to 2 fixed Ferro crits. The ATMs need 10 slots, MMLs need 9 slots. Clan XL and 2 Ferro crits leave only 8 slots.
So yeah, not an real variety options for the missile pod.
Phew, the Shadow Cat III's C config really is something. Simple and brutal. A config is also good.
I like all the Shadow Cat III's configurations.
BTY, is it the first mech to receive a mini and record sheets before getting a TRO entry?
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The targe? Blade? Ghost? A few of the DA designs had minis and RS before tro 3085
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Oh, right.
I've tried to forget that most of those exist because they stink.
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Lots of OmniMechs in this one pretty cool
Nice to get more Nova Cat stuff even if its sad
Not entirely sold on the Shadow Cat III the original seems superior which might be the point given why it was built
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What are the real differences? I never looked too closely at the IWM released sheets.
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Lots of OmniMechs in this one pretty cool
Nice to get more Nova Cat stuff even if its sad
Not entirely sold on the Shadow Cat III the original seems superior which might be the point given why it was built
Are the truly gone or just severely weakened?
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What are the real differences? I never looked too closely at the IWM released sheets.
The III doesn't have hard-mounted jump jets or MASC, but has better armor and more overall pod space.
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Are the truly gone or just severely weakened?
Clan Nova Cat is kaput. Some potential survivors left with Mystic Kisho, but have yet to resurface. Other than that, the Spirit Cats over in the FWL.
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The III doesn't have hard-mounted jump jets or MASC, but has better armor and more overall pod space.
Fixed JJs on a Omni are always a bad choice . . . no MASC gets interesting with Superchargers being pod-able in the current era.
I want to say folks have pointed to parts of . . FM3145? to say Kishio and those who followed him are dead- Bears killed them (or most of them if you think some jumped out).
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What are the real differences? I never looked too closely at the IWM released sheets.
No integral jump jets on III instead turned over to pod space but somehow doesn't seem to fully translate to better configurations (a couple are nice) and it does allow for the use of improved jets on at least one configuration but I'm not sure they are needed on the Mech
Are the truly gone or just severely weakened?
The Mech was introduced following the Second Dominion Combine War. I cant actually remember if full details of that conflict have ever been released but during it the Dominion and then Combine caused a lot of damage to the Cats
The Clan didn't really recover from the Jihad when a good portion of them moved into the Republic and the Combine seized on that weakness
The Shadow Cat III was intended on face lifting the old Mech and revitalising the Touman when they needed it unfortunately appears to be more of a plaster when a bandage was needed
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The Mech was introduced following the Second Dominion Combine War. I cant actually remember if full details of that conflict have ever been released but during it the Dominion and then Combine caused a lot of damage to the Cats
It was featured in Historicals: Wars of the Republic Era.
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Are the truly gone or just severely weakened?
Gone . . . all the warriors were killed- and with the old school bushido in play, the sibkos were all probably wiped out down to the Iron Wombs. The civilians were, IIRC, sterilized and spread among the Drac worlds as the lowest caste . . . to the point, the Combine spent money & effort to scatter them to the wind so that none of the culture would remain. Or at least that is what happened to those who did not enter extermination camps? Sort of hard to keep the memories of the Nova Cats alive- or even form a secret society- if you are the only Nova Cat in the mid-sized city, were just a technician who worked on ground transports, you do not speak Japanese very well, and you are pretty sure the local ISF informer is keeping a eye on you . . . because he introduced himself as the local ISF rep!
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The Spirit Cats are the last cultural remnant that remains. IIRC they were last in the Free Worlds League?
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part of the clan protectorate, yes
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What happened to the Nova Cats in the Republic?
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What happened to the Nova Cats in the Republic?
A bunch who were trapped outside the Fortress packed up ship and retreated to the Clan Protectorate. They formed the Nova Cat Provisionals.
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Are the truly gone or just severely weakened?
As an entitiy, they have vanished.
There are known survivors who have gone "somewhere", and the Spirit Cats who could be argued to be Nova Cats, and of course the possibility of various Nova Cat enclaves in the RotS but for the now, the Clan is as good as dead.
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I would expect any Nova Cat enclaves found on Republic worlds the Dracs took to get wiped out . . . not that they were going to be too nice to the other Republic citizens.
The Cappies? Oh they were absolutely going to screw over anyone who could not prove ethnic Capellan roots per Shattered Fortress as the most recent source, other MWDA books as other sources. Specifically look at p68 of Shattered Fortress, Kapteyn Revisited, and especially pg 65 (Meet the New Boss) . . . the last 3 paragraphs really spell it out. Honestly, it sounds like MadCap wrote those pieces inspired by press releases from certain places/times.
The Crusader Wolves would be the most welcoming to any of the Clan enclaves (HH, GB, NC, Wolf- not sure if SharkFox or Ravens did the same), integrating them as abathka possibly.
I expect Malvina wiped out the Wolf enclaves on Skye and other worlds she took as part of the desant.
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The "capital" enclave in the Republic i believe was Shitara which was taken by the Combine unfortunately
Anyway back on topic the Shadow Cat III was shared with Nova Cat Republic enclaves and has spread to other Clan forces barring the Falcons who shun NC equipment
Also ontop I liked the Battlemaster face lift
The new Adder configurations are murderous
Not so sure about the Heirofalcon seems like almost other Mechs death by a thousand cuts
Summoner a sold Mech now produced by someone new
But this is what I meant earlier Vol. 3 is the OmniMech volume so far
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I just had a thought. Are the recognition guides exclusively Mechs?
They have been so far just not sure if they all will be?
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I just had a thought. Are the recognition guides exclusively Mechs?
They have been so far just not sure if they all will be?
As Adrian has said . . . 'Mechs, Mechs, and Mechs'
The ONLY thing we MIGHT see is the Elemental, because it got new art from the KS- and I doubt that, giving a 25% chance.
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Magic 8 ball says all signs point to yes
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As Adrian has said . . . 'Mechs, Mechs, and Mechs'
The ONLY thing we MIGHT see is the Elemental, because it got new art from the KS- and I doubt that, giving a 25% chance.
Cool so ilClan basically embraces the original power points of the Clans better Mechs and terrifying infantry
Shame there's not new aerospace units though
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Cool so ilClan basically embraces the original power points of the Clans better Mechs and terrifying infantry
Shame there's not new aerospace units though
No, that is not what I said at all. What I said was that Adrian has said the emphasis is going to be mechs, mechs, and mechs- a return to the mech-based roots for new unit releases because that is the core of the game and why people play BT.
Since the Rec Guides are about matching up new KS art with 3150 options, the ONLY thing outside mechs you MIGHT see would be Elementals because they also got new art. But that is extremely unlikely based on what has been said about product emphasis going forward.
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. . . no MASC gets interesting with Superchargers being pod-able in the current era.
Yes but then you can't have a configuration mounting both of them.
I want to say folks have pointed to parts of . . FM3145? to say Kishio and those who followed him are dead- Bears killed them (or most of them if you think some jumped out).
I think the final word was that Kisho and his merry band had gone Somewhere TM but I could easily be wrong.
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Yes but then you can't have a configuration mounting both of them.
I think the final word was that Kisho and his merry band had gone Somewhere TM but I could easily be wrong.
And MASC is not pod-able? So, sort of like fixed JJs, MASC is not a great choice . . . but its been used.
Kishio is left out as a plothook, he is literally Schrodinger's Nova Cat.
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And MASC is not pod-able? So, sort of like fixed JJs, MASC is not a great choice . . . but its been used.
Kishio is left out as a plothook, he is literally Schrodinger's Nova Cat.
umm...MASC is indeed not pod-able, so to get supercharger plus MASC, the base chassis would need MASC...no?
so its not really like fixed jump jets since jj's are pod-able
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Fixed JJ's and MASC were fine when there weren't other options in use. It gave some character to omnis. Think of the Thor versus the other 3050 heavies. The original Shadow Cat dates back at least to TRO3058; I'd have to check when iJJ's and Superchargers were first published, but I don't think they were used in a TRO for at least a decade real-time after that.
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Yes but then you can't have a configuration mounting both of them.
Actually you can, there is a fearsome config of the Executioner that would be brutal for kicks on lighter machines- the ability of an assault to have 12 MP is nuts.
umm...MASC is indeed not pod-able, so to get supercharger plus MASC, the base chassis would need MASC...no?
so its not really like fixed jump jets since jj's are pod-able
My point was that after Superchargers come on the scene, it would be better to just use SuperChargers- but after they are, its as bad a design choice as fixed JJ ever were when we were introduced to Omnis.
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Fixed JJ's and MASC were fine when there weren't other options in use. It gave some character to omnis. Think of the Thor versus the other 3050 heavies. The original Shadow Cat dates back at least to TRO3058; I'd have to check when iJJ's and Superchargers were first published, but I don't think they were used in a TRO for at least a decade real-time after that.
superchargers appeared on the some of the solaris mechs in 3055U (2005). outside of that i think i was the xtro series where they started showing up. it was about 2008 for IJJs. some of the celestial configs have them.
edit: there were a number of superchargers in wolf and blake (2008). TRO 3075 also mentions the Keller custom variant of the Gladiator. the xtro series would also have a number of them starting with the wolfhound in mercs (2009).
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Actually you can, there is a fearsome config of the Executioner that would be brutal for kicks on lighter machines- the ability of an assault to have 12 MP is nuts.
I think what Pa meant was without the MASC (in the Shadow Cat III), you can't have a config that mounts both (such as the Executioner configs you brought up)
and thus, fixed MASC being used still somewhat makes sense, because it can be combined with a supercharger
but yes, fixed jump jets make no sense on any design since they are pod-able
IMO jump jets make no sense being pod-able and should only be allowed as fixed equipment
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But FASA made the decision that they could be pod mounted all the way back when Omnimechs were brand new when they gave us the Mad Cat Pryde and the S variants of the Uller, Mad Cat, and Daishi.
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But FASA made the decision that they could be pod mounted all the way back when Omnimechs were brand new when they gave us the Mad Cat Pryde and the S variants of the Uller, Mad Cat, and Daishi.
Yeah - but they should really only be available as fixed equipment.
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But FASA made the decision that they could be pod mounted all the way back when Omnimechs were brand new when they gave us the Mad Cat Pryde and the S variants of the Uller, Mad Cat, and Daishi.
indeed, but think about how jump jets are described as working...superheated exhaust almost directly from the fusion engine is blasted out of the jump jets in order to achieve lift (or at least that's how I understand them to work from what I've read)...
so OmniMechs have what, exhaust channels running throughout their skeleton to every available spot on the 'Mechs back and legs to accommodate any number of potential jump jet attachments?
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IMO jump jets make no sense being pod-able and should only be allowed as fixed equipment
Well that would make some hard design choices, thinking that would have been a good idea.
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so OmniMechs have what, exhaust channels running throughout their skeleton to every available spot on the 'Mechs back and legs to accommodate any number of potential jump jet attachments?
Consider people have no problem with mechs that can transform into aerospace fighters, why not.
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Consider people have no problem with mechs that can transform into aerospace fighters, why not.
basically the way I see it, the jump jets should be integral in the frame, just as the transformation tech in a LAM is integral...
pod mounted jets are (to me) like if you could pod-mount a LAM conversion pack into an OmniMech...ok, not as extreme, but same idea
at the very least, pod-mounted JJs should weigh more and/or take up more crit space than integral JJs
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since it's likely never going to be changed, best move it to fan rules if we're going in this direction
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the Heirofalcon D...do you guys think sacrificing the jump jets is the best decision here? isn't the partial wing basically pointless without JJs?
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Who says we are sacrificing? Its a config where a decision is made that something else is worthwhile- more guns, more ammo, electronics . . . whatever. BUT since they are not fixed, I could decide I want IJJ instead of JJ . . . the partial wing, even without JJ, still gives a cooling bonus IIRC.
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I agree with what's been said about pod-able jump jets - but Sartris really nailed it:
since it's likely never going to be changed, best move it to fan rules if we're going in this direction
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i've generally assumed that JJ's were much like Flamers, which also get fluffed as venting plasma from the mech's engine.
a misrepresentation of what is actually going on, which is something much more plausible but a lot less awesome sounding.
(specifically, i think that both are generating their own plasmas, using air or some other material as reaction mass, via either indirect cycle heat or pure electrical excitation. but since you need a fusion powerplant's level of energy output to pull that off, it is easy for people to assume the fusion plant is somehow involved directly.)
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the Heirofalcon D...do you guys think sacrificing the jump jets is the best decision here? isn't the partial wing basically pointless without JJs?
It is still 3 heat sinks on a Mech with well over 20 heat.
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I feel like having a Partial Wing should automatically allow a 'Mech to jump down an elevation of greater than two level changes as if it had jump jets. Count it as a very specific instance of the Minimum Movement rule that only Partial Wings can do, treat it as jumping, give it the +1 TMM (for a total TMM of +1 since one hexes Doesn't Get There).
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Yup a glide ability would be nice
Then again if you mount a partial wing as standard equipment why would you not at least put 1 jump jet on every configuration?
It doesn't have to be central to every configuration but keep it usable
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I can already hear the complaining about having "only" three Jump MP on a 'Mech that's faster than 3/5 and honestly I prefer the ??? about a config that's 6/9/0* than the griping about a config that's 6/9/3 or 6/9/4.
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I feel like having a Partial Wing should automatically allow a 'Mech to jump down an elevation of greater than two level changes as if it had jump jets. Count it as a very specific instance of the Minimum Movement rule that only Partial Wings can do, treat it as jumping, give it the +1 TMM (for a total TMM of +1 since one hexes Doesn't Get There).
So... you're suggesting Partial Wings should grant DFA capability when hurtling down on an adjacent enemy from two or more levels higher?
(Why would the Jade Falcons need a Partial Wing for that, it sounds like something they would do anyways in the Dark Age given the opportunity.)
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So... you're suggesting Partial Wings should grant DFA capability when hurtling down on an adjacent enemy from two or more levels higher?
(Why would the Jade Falcons need a Partial Wing for that, it sounds like something they would do anyways in the Dark Age given the opportunity.)
I'm almost certain that this is already possible at significantly greater risk with the Leaping (TacOps) and Intentional Falls From Above (Total Warfare) rules, so it's really less "allowing" it and more "making this Partial Wing more useful than Single Heat Sinks".
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indeed, but think about how jump jets are described as working...superheated exhaust almost directly from the fusion engine is blasted out of the jump jets in order to achieve lift (or at least that's how I understand them to work from what I've read)...
Like the similar fluff for mech flamers, that's been long since retconned into being the idea of someone who wasn't a mech engineer. A mech's fusion reactor has a near-vacuum inside, it does not have anything close to the required surplus mass to be used as jump jet and flamer fuel. Instead, they suck in air and run massive amounts of electricity through it (which is generated by the reactor) to energize it into a plasma state, then blow that out the business end. A jump jet is more or less self-contained aside from needing a power source and air (or reaction mass if used in a vacuum).
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the Heirofalcon D...do you guys think sacrificing the jump jets is the best decision here? isn't the partial wing basically pointless without JJs?
No, it still dissipates 3 heat points.
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Like the similar fluff for mech flamers, that's been long since retconned into being the idea of someone who wasn't a mech engineer. A mech's fusion reactor has a near-vacuum inside, it does not have anything close to the required surplus mass to be used as jump jet and flamer fuel. Instead, they suck in air and run massive amounts of electricity through it (which is generated by the reactor) to energize it into a plasma state, then blow that out the business end. A jump jet is more or less self-contained aside from needing a power source and air (or reaction mass if used in a vacuum).
Regardless, I still feel they should be fixed equipment only, but I digress, as others have pointed out, it's unlikely ever to change, so no point complaining
Back on topic...
No, it still dissipates 3 heat points.
But do you feel that giving up all the other qualities of the partial wing to be an oversized heat sink is worth the extras added to the D (ie. More firepower or the supercharger)
Just to point out, I'm not really of the opinion one way or other on the D, just wanted to see what everyone thought about the lack of JJs on a partial wing design (yes, it's just one config, I know)
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But do you feel that giving up all the other qualities of the partial wing to be an oversized heat sink is worth the extras added to the D (ie. More firepower or the supercharger)
Just to point out, I'm not really of the opinion one way or other on the D, just wanted to see what everyone thought about the lack of JJs on a partial wing design (yes, it's just one config, I know)
Personally, I am fine with it as its fixed equipment but by not having fixed jump jets still gives the greatest flexibility as expected in a Omni design. The very ability to leave off the JJs to carry a larger war load would be needed in some circumstances and being able to adjust to those circumstances is the strategic value of a Omni. FREX, going into the tunnels of the Cave on New Syrtis had the Shrike & Jade Hawk jumpjets rendered useless- the Heirofalcon could have the configuration adjusted to remove the JJ for that mission. Later as part of the campaign, the design could have been reconfigured to include.
Also . . . while WE typically only use canon configs, in universe they would be tweaking them based on supply chains or immediate mission needs. You could have a D 1-off version that removes a weapon or two to give the Omni some extra JJ to exploit the Partial Wing without going full JJ load.
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I hadn't realized that the entire wing itself could be used without engaging the jump jets as a heatsink. Essentially a external heatsink "fin" Nice.
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270 million year old tech
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Dimetrodon_NT2_small.jpg)
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I agree it's awfully tempting to remove one ER medium laser (or downgrade them both to smalls if you hate assymetry) from the D so you can put in a couple of jump jets. It's 4 jumping MP at the cost of 1 ton.
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I agree it's awfully tempting to remove one ER medium laser (or downgrade them both to smalls if you hate assymetry) from the D so you can put in a couple of jump jets. It's 4 jumping MP at the cost of 1 ton.
Id do same
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I think the final word was that Kisho and his merry band had gone Somewhere TM but I could easily be wrong.
The fleet that jumps into Terra at the end of 3150?
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The fleet that jumps into Terra at the end of 3150?
Well . . . missing for 6+ years . . . and a single escaping JS is not the same as the implied size of the fleet.
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they made friends
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The fleet that jumps into Terra at the end of 3150?
Now that would be funny
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they made friends
Obviously they teamed up with the Minnesota Tribe along the way.
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Time to speculate about the Thresher II. Enlarging the art, we have what looks to be a PPC on the left arm (it has that spike in the muzzle Plog likes to put on PPCs). On the left torso we have a 4 pack missile launcher and some type of laser (a lens is visible in the barrel). The right torso has a 15 pack missile launcher, and the right arm looks to have a flamer. Just below the left arm there looks to be an exhaust vent from a jump jet on the back.
The original Thresher always reminded me of an overweight medium, or the Clantech spawn of a Quickdraw and a Grand Dragon. So aside from the weapon loadout, what else do we think changed? Improved jump jets? A supercharger replacing MASC (or maybe both)? The original was all about mobility.
Let the wild-ass guessing begin!
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the ilclan really is the friends we made along the way
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I agree it's awfully tempting to remove one ER medium laser (or downgrade them both to smalls if you hate assymetry) from the D so you can put in a couple of jump jets. It's 4 jumping MP at the cost of 1 ton.
Probably the best option would be to make the ER Pulses plain ER mediums and use the freed up tonnage and crits for a couple JJs.
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Time to speculate about the Thresher II. Enlarging the art, we have what looks to be a PPC on the left arm (it has that spike in the muzzle Plog likes to put on PPCs). On the left torso we have a 4 pack missile launcher and some type of laser (a lens is visible in the barrel). The right torso has a 15 pack missile launcher, and the right arm looks to have a flamer. Just below the left arm there looks to be an exhaust vent from a jump jet on the back.
The original Thresher always reminded me of an overweight medium, or the Clantech spawn of a Quickdraw and a Grand Dragon. So aside from the weapon loadout, what else do we think changed? Improved jump jets? A supercharger replacing MASC (or maybe both)? The original was all about mobility.
Let the wild-ass guessing begin!
Well . . . Thresher 1 & 2 are-
Thresher 1- UAC/10, 2 SRM6, 2 MPL, ERML 5/8/5 w/MASC, 9.5 tons FF, 13 DHS
Thresher 2- LB-5X, 2 ERLL, ERML, 2 SRM6
Since I would expect it to be Fox designed . . . Ferro-Lam, since the original is mobility SC & MASC . . . or maybe SC & TSM. Due to the weapons load as it appears, I would not expect TSM- heat would be too hard to regulate. But a 5/8(10[15])/5 moving mech with a 12 point kick would still be pretty brutal to chase down IS lights and mediums, specially if the weapons support the speed. I mean, 15 MPs should get a mech from long range into short range of any target in a turn. I would like to see the UAC/10 . . . or maybe a PAC/8? It appears 2 smaller lens on above the LA big gun, and a wrist flamer? on the RA. Torso I think has to be a large laser, I do not see any sort of laser with the 4 missile system. Both missile systems could be Streaks- Streak LRM15, and Streak SRM4- personally I would prefer standards across the board for alternate munitions.
Have to play with it on HMP when I get home.
So guess qualification
Armor- Ferro Lam
Engine- XL
Torso Laser- ER Large Pulse
RA- flamer
LA- 2 small energy weapons . . . afraid you might be right about PPC
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Obviously they teamed up with the Minnesota Tribe along the way.
Then they found the Knights of St. Cameron who joined their party... :D
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I do not see any sort of laser with the 4 missile system.
It's just south of the cockpit on the torso.
And the two holes above the PPC may just be just that: holes. I can't make out any lenses.
Of course, they could also be MGs or AP gauss rifles.
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Speaking of AP Gauss, do we have any examples of that being produced by an Inner Sphere power or appearing on an Mixed Tech Inner Sphere based machine?
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no
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no
Too bad. Thought about it with the Stinger IIC. Gives a light mech nice anti infantry ability from a range where a platoon won't mug you.
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Guys, we should open a thread in Battlemech Designs if we're gonna talk about what we think loadouts are. It's already been mentioned not to talk about custom designs by the mods, so let's split that off to the proper board.
As for the book, where did you guys find a Thresher II artwork? I missed something.
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Guys, we should open a thread in Battlemech Designs if we're gonna talk about what we think loadouts are. It's already been mentioned not to talk about custom designs by the mods, so let's split that off to the proper board.
As for the book, where did you guys find a Thresher II artwork? I missed something.
The Coming Releases page has the covers for the first 4 Rec Guides https://bg.battletech.com/books/upcoming-releases/
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Too bad. Thought about it with the Stinger IIC. Gives a light mech nice anti infantry ability from a range where a platoon won't mug you.
there are clanTECH inner sphere designs - the Axel IIC, for example, is a bear creation from the 3070s
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Guys, we should open a thread in Battlemech Designs if we're gonna talk about what we think loadouts are. It's already been mentioned not to talk about custom designs by the mods, so let's split that off to the proper board.
As for the book, where did you guys find a Thresher II artwork? I missed something.
No one is posting a design.
It's just south of the cockpit on the torso.
And the two holes above the PPC may just be just that: holes. I can't make out any lenses.
Yeah, saw that which is why I said large . . . but the way you phrased it I looked for a laser in the SRM rack rather than on the torso. A laser aperture on that SRM4 rack, before I looked closer, would have had me thinking SRM4 +ArtIV . . . or maybe Art V.
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To bad we can't mix JJ/UMU. obviously each only functions in specific environs, but both options would be nice. Still caught up on if JJ were only fixed equipment, still like it.
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Well . . . Thresher 1 & 2 are-
Thresher 1- UAC/10, 2 SRM6, 2 MPL, ERML 5/8/5 w/MASC, 9.5 tons FF, 13 DHS
Thresher 2- LB-5X, 2 ERLL, ERML, 2 SRM6
Since I would expect it to be Fox designed . . .
The Thresher II is mentioned in the Notable Pilots section for the Dominator in Rec Guide 1. Star Captain Racine, who helped with the design of the Dominator also provided major input on the Thresher II. So it seems likely that the Thresher II is a Clan Wolf design.
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The Coming Releases page has the covers for the first 4 Rec Guides https://bg.battletech.com/books/upcoming-releases/
Can a mod change my handle on the board to Derppopotamus?
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The Thresher II is mentioned in the Notable Pilots section for the Dominator in Rec Guide 1. Star Captain Racine, who helped with the design of the Dominator also provided major input on the Thresher II. So it seems likely that the Thresher II is a Clan Wolf design.
Maybe? or its confirmation that the Crusader Wolves and Foxes (or whatever Khanate/Aimag) are working very closely.
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That's not what the word "confirmation" means.
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The Coming Releases page has the covers for the first 4 Rec Guides https://bg.battletech.com/books/upcoming-releases/
Is that a thresher? To me it looks more like a Kodiak or Thunderbolt variant.
And on a different note, I'm loving the BLR-6C. I think I'll call it the "Riflemaster."
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Is that a thresher? To me it looks more like a Kodiak or Thunderbolt variant.
And on a different note, I'm loving the BLR-6C. I think I'll call it the "Riflemaster."
I'd wager it's a Thunderbolt of some kind. It has the side placed cockpit, full arm on the right side (It looks like a PPC in place of the left arm/hand), big honking missile launcher (15 tubes on it) on one side torso. Maybe a SRM-4 like launcher on the other shoulder. Could be a machine gun or flamer on the left arm. Then again stats don't necessary match the machine image.
(https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Recog-Guide-Vol-04-display-cover-1.png)
Looks like it could have JumpJets on the back like the old 5SE models but it's new-new-newish update.
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I'd wager it's a Thunderbolt of some kind. It has the side placed cockpit, full arm on the right side (It looks like a PPC in place of the left arm/hand), big honking missile launcher (15 tubes on it) on one side torso. Maybe a SRM-4 like launcher on the other shoulder. Could be a machine gun or flamer on the left arm. Then again stats don't necessary match the machine image.
(https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Recog-Guide-Vol-04-display-cover-1.png)
Looks like it could have JumpJets on the back like the old 5SE models but it's new-new-newish update.
I think Wrangler has the right of it. There's also the Hel and Grand Summoner from the TRO3145/3150 launch, Thunderbolt IIC that was in TRO Prototypes, and, historically, a Thunderbolt C. Didn't the Anzu draw a lineage to the Thunderbolt/Warhammer as well?
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Is that a thresher? To me it looks more like a Kodiak or Thunderbolt variant.
And on a different note, I'm loving the BLR-6C. I think I'll call it the "Riflemaster."
Ray explicitly said it was the Thresher II
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69619.msg1618603#msg1618603
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Ray explicitly said it was the Thresher II
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69619.msg1618603#msg1618603
I stand corrected.
Wow. The Thresher got super-swole when it got the II treatment, then.
I wonder, will we get new art for the Thresher that will help draw the line between them?
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That's not what the word "confirmation" means.
Really? The intro to the Rec Guides talk about supplying a drive to be ilClan. Divided has some Foxes moving Alaric's emissary along with moving the Dragoons to Terra after they agree. Khanates seem to becoming more bound to normal powers- Spina Khanate is a part of the Clan Protectorate, Antoinnette Labov's Gamma Aimag of the Tiburon Khanate (she could be running Tiburon by 3150, we do not know) got close to the Remnant and probably a good chunk of their supply before transporting Julian . . . where like Petr Kalasa they went from transport to active combatants. The author of the Rec Guide is in the Skate Khanate, which could be the one working with the Crusader Wolves- I do not think Divided gets more specific.
And how is a Thresher II entry that makes it Fox built but with that Crusader Wolf mechwarrior input not confirmation that at least a Khanate (say like Skate) are working closely with the Crusader Wolves?
Thunderbolt-Thresher discussion
The art on the old Thresher was always eh . . . BUT with the Falcons basing their Omni off the captured Threshers, it had to be similar to the 3050 Summoner line drawings. This Thresher II looks more like a Summoner derivative so the wheel is turning again.
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Is that a thresher? To me it looks more like a Kodiak or Thunderbolt variant.
Now that you say that, it looks like a light Kodiak to me.
Always thought the Thresher had some relation to the Thunderbolt anyway.
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Considering the Thresher was the precursor the the Summoner, which is always compared to the Thud, makes sense.
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Thresher was more like a Orion VA and Quickdraw had a baby . . . UAC/10 & pair of SRM launchers from Orion daddy, MLs and mobility along with size from Quickdraw mommy.
When a Star League Orion and Quickdraw love each other very much . . .
. . . you get a Thresher.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/3/34/Thresher.jpg?timestamp=20080107011234)
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I'm not sure that "love" is how I'd put it.
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Yeah, I see more Warhammer than Quickdraw or Orion but I'm a Warhammer fan.
The Summoner lineage is in the fluff text, I guess they just didn't want it to look too much like a Summoner.
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Orion VA . . .
AC/10 in the chest- check
ML in each arm instead of a hand- check
dual SRM launchers- check
head in chest/shoulders- check
Quickdraw . . .
60t- check
5/8/5- check
MLs & SRMs- check
As for the Summoner- offset the head more while making torso more blocky, replace the UAC mount with a LRM 'barrel' . . . no hands with gun mounts . . . 5/8/5
I mean, I guess you could say the Sharks upscaled the Thresher as the basis for their Warhammer IIC 4 . . .
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Really?
Yes, really. Speculating about unpublished origins of a character is not in anyway "confirmed" anything. Confirmation means that it is proven as fact. Nothing of the sort has happened here, at all.
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I was not speculating on the character, but the conjecture was that because a Crusader Wolf contributed to the development of the Thresher II, it was a Wolf design. The Thresher II being a Wolf design is unlikely- it would have been named something different IMO. I countered saying that all it confirmed was that the Crusader Wolves and at least a Khanate were working closely as supported by Alaric's deal to augment his transport abilities with Fox shipping.
We will see Friday, but I expect it was more of a joint project where the Foxes supplied the majority of the technical ability while the Crusader Wolves may have turned over a captured production line and set up most of the supply chain to support construction of the new mech.
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Ray explicitly said it was the Thresher II
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69619.msg1618603#msg1618603
Ah ha! I'm wrong again! My streak of failure continues! ;)
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Thresher II looks like it was made out of Thunderbolt spare parts then. Really too much like the T-Bolt.
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I was not speculating on the character, but the conjecture was that because a Crusader Wolf contributed to the development of the Thresher II, it was a Wolf design. The Thresher II being a Wolf design is unlikely- it would have been named something different IMO. I countered saying that all it confirmed was that the Crusader Wolves and at least a Khanate were working closely as supported by Alaric's deal to augment his transport abilities with Fox shipping.
We will see Friday, but I expect it was more of a joint project where the Foxes supplied the majority of the technical ability while the Crusader Wolves may have turned over a captured production line and set up most of the supply chain to support construction of the new mech.
Psst. Recognition Guides are released every other week. Recognition Guide 4 will release next week, per Cubby, possibly Ray, and definitely https://bg.battletech.com/books/upcoming-releases/
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I was not speculating on the character, but the conjecture was that because a Crusader Wolf contributed to the development of the Thresher II, it was a Wolf design. The Thresher II being a Wolf design is unlikely- it would have been named something different IMO. I countered saying that all it confirmed was that the Crusader Wolves and at least a Khanate were working closely as supported by Alaric's deal to augment his transport abilities with Fox shipping.
We will see Friday, but I expect it was more of a joint project where the Foxes supplied the majority of the technical ability while the Crusader Wolves may have turned over a captured production line and set up most of the supply chain to support construction of the new mech.
I can see where you are coming from now you've explained your idea, you seemed to be suggesting a closer cooperation was confirmed.
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Thresher II looks like it was made out of Thunderbolt spare parts then. Really too much like the T-Bolt.
Now that you mention it, maybe the Thresher II is being built on a retooled Thunderbolt chassis like the Wolves did with the Pack Hunter and the Hermes factory in Rec Guide 1. Oh wait, the Thunderbolt and original Thresher are different tonnages
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But this isn't the original Thresher, it's the Thresher II.
It could very well be heavier.
We'll find out in 8 days.
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i would not have guessed thresher II
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Psst. Recognition Guides are released every other week. Recognition Guide 4 will release next week, per Cubby, possibly Ray, and definitely https://bg.battletech.com/books/upcoming-releases/
Eh, this week has felt like 3 which is why i was thinking this Friday . . .
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Eh, this week has felt like 3 which is why i was thinking this Friday . . .
Null sheen. I've been treading water running IT at my company for the last three-four months, feels more like six to a year because of all the ignored issues with updates and upgrades.
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I wonder how Clan Wolf-in-Exile could crash-start a new Omnimech (Sojourner) after they get almost annihilated by the Falcons.
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It was probably something that was mostly completed before the Falcons hit them.
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I wonder how Clan Wolf-in-Exile could crash-start a new Omnimech (Sojourner) after they get almost annihilated by the Falcons.
The design itself is decades old. It was just never produced before.
As Khan Shaw was able to give orders to AssaultTech, it seems likely that the production facility is owned or managed by CWiE. It is also possible the Clan managed to save at least one of their mobile production facilities
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The design itself is decades old. It was just never produced before.
As Khan Shaw was able to give orders to AssaultTech, it seems likely that the production facility is owned or managed by CWiE. It is also possible the Clan managed to save at least one of their mobile production facilities
Assault Tech Industries is a joint venture between CWiE and the Lyrans begun in the 3120s and intended for the Clan to compete with the Sea Foxes in BattleMech sales.
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I wonder how Clan Wolf-in-Exile could crash-start a new Omnimech (Sojourner) after they get almost annihilated by the Falcons.
Because at some point between the Jihad and fall of Arc Royal they built Omni production (or relocated some from Arc Royal when it ended up on the frontlines) to start producing Linebackers, Adders, and IIRC 1 other Omni on Donegal with some Lyran help. They fell back to Donegal and the Sojourner plans were dusted off for production, because it was simpler to build rather than trying to expand adding a more complicated Omni design.
Shattered Fortress had the 1st Wolf Legion wiped out on Arc Royal, and I think the other two 'clusters' were the Golden Keshik and Wolf Spider. Donegal had a garrison at the time, and at least one other Lyran world had some sort of garrison. The Bronze Keshik and 1st Wolf Strike Grenadiers were somewhere else when Arc Royal fell. FM3145 says a height of roughly 15 clusters (which would not be FMWC- means sometime in the Jihad!) and by 3145 had fallen below half that . . . but expect them to graduate sibkos at 16 rather than 18- which 3148 would see happening as they grew beyond 3 galaxies. No mention of the 4th & 13th Wolf Guards, 6th Dragoons, 2nd Legion/Strike Grenadiers, or Guardian clusters.
The 1st Wolf Strike Grenadiers in early 3148 used the Sojourner production to replace a full star for their attack on the Falcons. Rec Guide says sibkos are stepping up earlier and retired warriors are fighting Trials after the barbarism of Arc Royal to replace in the touman.
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Did they at least have luck with their 'chicken-bone' defense strategy?
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Did they at least have luck with their 'chicken-bone' defense strategy?
Well . . . that was against the Falcons 3060 and a rush. So after Op Bulldog if the Falcons had tried to end the Warden Wolves, the roughly 13 clusters could reliably be expected to take out 26 clusters . . . or at least 26 clusters worth of strength from whatever got past the warship fleet. On Arc Royal that would have also included needing to defeat the Kell Hounds and whatever mercs were present. Problem is they were being ground down over more than a decade which means the logistics matters more- the Falcons could replace warriors faster than the Warden Wolves (which apparently could come close on material).
The problem with the Warden Wolf position gets into FASAnomics as part of their logistics. They were also played dumb after 3060- won the battles but losing the war. Because they were a minor faction . . . but still better off than the Nova Cats.
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Did they at least have luck with their 'chicken-bone' defense strategy?
I mean, they still exist... so, yes?
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I mean, they still exist... so, yes?
Did it choke up the Falcon's at all?
iirc the idea was to be able to create enough of a speed bump that the attacker would stop and say: "You know what? I think after that last road incident, we are going to take some time and the undercarriage and alignment fully checked out. Don't want to have this beauty die on us half-way home"
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Like I said, Malvina nibbled for over 10 years before trying to take the capital . . . if she had tried to destroy the Wardens for her first act as Falcon Khan, she would have lost half her touman if not more. She relied on the truism that a small power cannot win a war of attrition against a large power over a long war.
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After 10 years if no one is paying attention (or doing anything about it), they get what they prepared for. Thanks for the catch-up.
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Well, the massively expanded the sibkos . . . and nearly hung on long enough to get them as warriors. It still sort of comes down to small power vs large power and a battle of attrition never works out for the small.
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What books out today? Another recognition guide or something else?
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TTS Kaumberg and SO Thermo Police, barring shenanigans
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What books out today? Another recognition guide or something else?
Recognition Guide is next week I believe always seems to land when I'm on nightshift
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TTS Kaumberg and SO Thermo Police, barring shenanigans
No shenanigans, they're out now.
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What I'm confused about is the artwork of the Hierofalcon. It just looks so much more basic and crude (check the cockpit section, the partial wing and feet) compared to the earlier Shrike, Gyrfalcon and Eyrie (the quality of their artworks is surely debatable too) or the other two JF totem mechs whose name I can't remember right now, which look much more refined as totem mechs, which doesn't make a lot of sense, since the Hierofalcon is a later design. To me, it barely looks like a bird style mech at all. It reminds me more of a bee or bumble-bee.
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I think that they deliberately went with a less totemic appearance for it.
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If the Bear's struggles with making an Omni totem mech, which resulted in the Kodiak and Executioner being split into 2 different designs, are anything to go by... it seems like the requirements for Omnitechnology fittings and modules make it difficult to create the same distinctive features as those found on totem Battlemechs. The Jade Hawk has difficulty making sure all its weapons can fire around all the totemic bits, imagine the issues if you have to factor for all the possible alternate weapon configurations an Omnimech can support.
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If the Bear's struggles with making an Omni totem mech, which resulted in the Kodiak and Executioner being split into 2 different designs, are anything to go by... it seems like the requirements for Omnitechnology fittings and modules make it difficult to create the same distinctive features as those found on totem Battlemechs. The Jade Hawk has difficulty making sure all its weapons can fire around all the totemic bits, imagine the issues if you have to factor for all the possible alternate weapon configurations an Omnimech can support.
where does it say the Jade Hawk has trouble firing around it's "totemic bits"?
and, to be clear, the Kodiak and Executioner were split because the designs were too different from each other to get to work on a single 'Mech, not necessarily because they couldn't make an Omni totem 'Mech
the Balius shows that there can be totem OmniMechs...why it is the only one, I don't believe it's ever been really touched on
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Because when the Balius was made, totem mechs had largely fallen out of favor. It wasn't until the Dark Ages when the Falcons decided to resurrect the idea.
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sure, but that doesn't address why it is the only totem OmniMech, every Clan has had OmniMech technology since 2873
no sources (AFAIK) specifically say anything about totem 'Mechs being difficult to make into OmniMechs
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the Balius shows that there can be totem OmniMechs...why it is the only one, I don't believe it's ever been really touched on
Warwolf and Wulfen would like a word with you. ;)
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Warwolf and Wulfen would like a word with you. ;)
forgot about those, but doesn't that contribute to showing that Omni-totems are not a hard thing to do? just for some reason, the first batch of totems were designed as non-Omnis
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Because when the Balius was made, totem mechs had largely fallen out of favor. It wasn't until the Dark Ages when the Falcons decided to resurrect the idea.
Their power armour was more like a Totem and then QuadVees sort of began to take that place
I wonder if there will be any new QuadVees in recoignition guides
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Rec Guides are pretty much new variants for Kickstarter mechs + new Ilclan era mechs.
Since we didn't get quadvees in the kickstarter, really unlikely. Since quadvees require IntOps rules to use, especially unlikely; everything we've seen to this point is BMM compatible.
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Their power armour was more like a Totem and then QuadVees sort of began to take that place
I wonder if there will be any new QuadVees in recoignition guides
I had hoped that the new Scorpion and Goliath would come as QuadVees.... but this sadly isn't the case...
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Well just have them stomp on a car per foot actuator. Then becomes a quadvee.
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Well just have them stomp on a car per foot actuator. Then becomes a quadvee.
Aaa yes the mysterious XTRO Periphery II - Return to Xanadu
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forgot about those, but doesn't that contribute to showing that Omni-totems are not a hard thing to do? just for some reason, the first batch of totems were designed as non-Omnis
You'd have to double-check dates, but I think most of the totems came before omnis were widespread. For any that came later I would have made the totem a non-omni as a morale boost for second-line forces. Kind of like how Orion IICs were considered a status symbol for second-line Wolf warriors.
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The Kodiak was the first totem mech built after the invention of the omnimech. All the totem mechs from TRO 3060 were developed before omnis were invented.
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You'd have to double-check dates, but I think most of the totems came before omnis were widespread. For any that came later I would have made the totem a non-omni as a morale boost for second-line forces. Kind of like how Orion IICs were considered a status symbol for second-line Wolf warriors.
Orion IIC would also be assigned to frontline forces- actually it was more likely to be assigned to frontline forces, and the Wolves would gladly trade in their Omnis.
Thing is, IF MWDA had actually started off with Omnis as a possibility likely the Shrike, Gyrfalcon and Eyrie would have been Falcon Omni totems.
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A little under 6 hours if they follow the usual schedule. :excited:
Too bad I'll be away from my PC until several hours later. :(
At least there will be the bonus of Golden Century as well. :beer:
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Recognition Guide Friday has become a really fun day at work for me. I try to power out as much as I can by 11 AM pacific time and then sit at my desk salivating and hitting F5.
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Have they updated the IlClan Recognition Guide 2 yet?
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Not to my knowledge.
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Working on it. Just got all the notes from 1-3 and hour ago.
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So since #4 dropped . . .
Wasp C is going to be interesting . . . and the Crusader Wolf abathka who killed 3 Lyran lights after barely making warrior status, would be nuts. It must have died running into something as fast with a 10 pt hit.
The Wasp 5A is neat, like to see the speed get to that point.
Reading the rest.
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No surprise, the Thresher II is built by the Foxes, still 60t . . . still 5/8 . . but now with SuperCharger to go with the MASC! WOO SPEED! PPC guess was right, the laser in the chest is a Large Pulse rather than ER, launchers are standard- with the encouragement to use alternate loads of munitions, mine on the flamer in the arm. CASE II for longevity.
Bad news . . . Reflec armor . . . so you use that speed to avoid melee.
BV is . . . 3364 . . . more than Clan assaults.
Also says the Foxes were still producing the regular Threshers (not 2s) on a planet somewhere- the re-design is b/c Alaric bought a run of Threshers but wanted them adjusted.
This also has . . .
Warhammer IIC
Ice Ferret
Blackjack
Trebuchet
Awesome
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Working on it. Just got all the notes from 1-3 and hour ago.
Thanks! :)
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That Warhammer IIC :o
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The Wolves' use of the Thresher II is super weird to me because it seems like it occupies the same exact niche as the Dominator. Well, except for the physical attacks, what with the reflective armor, but the Dominator isn't really especially special for physical attacks anyway.
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Do you think when we see the thunderbolt could finally get a record sheet for Maeve Wolf T-bolt? Also is there a plan to update the MUL with the new machines?
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The Wolves' use of the Thresher II is super weird to me because it seems like it occupies the same exact niche as the Dominator. Well, except for the physical attacks, what with the reflective armor, but the Dominator isn't really especially special for physical attacks anyway.
Its the way it spec'd out . . . BUT I also think some of this could be related to the lines in Rock of the Republic where Stone says the Clans have studied Tukayyid just like the Inner Sphere . . . so we are seeing Wolf purposed designs that are energy heavy, allow for use of force multiplying munitons (look at the use of Inferno from Thresher II on vehicles) or conserve expendables (Streak LRMs on Griffin C, iOS-SSRM2 on Wasp C). Be interesting to see if the Ice Ferret F or K turned out to be Crusader Wolf configs.
For all those who were involved in the Small Laser discussion . . . hey! The Ice Ferret J makes the Phantom H the ERSL crowd was wanting.
Edit- on quick reflection, the actual answer to your question is not one or the other but both. Alaric is arming as many warriors has he can- putting Clan weapons IS chassis, building what he can as quickly/cheaply as possible, and buying mechs from other folks like the Foxes. The Thresher II was a meeting of needs.
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Warhammer 13C, do you want the 1C or 2C configuration answer yes all the guns.
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It's crazy optimized as well - cap off all four of your long range systems and run for zero heat, then once you're up close fire one ERPPC and all your short-range guns and run for -1 heat. I want entire companies of these things. And it's got enough long range ammo to really make it mean something.
gib moar
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Anyone else curious if ol Deke found a way to beat EI madness?
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Do you think when we see the thunderbolt could finally get a record sheet for Maeve Wolf T-bolt?
I'm pretty sure it's just a Thunderbolt C. Available in RS:3085 Project Phoenix.
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I'm pretty sure it's just a Thunderbolt C. Available in RS:3085 Project Phoenix.
The one thing we know about Maeve's Thunderbolt is that it has a Clan tech missile launcher. The Thunderbolt C has no missile launcher at all.
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The one thing we know about Maeve's Thunderbolt is that it has a Clan tech missile launcher. The Thunderbolt C has no missile launcher at all.
And jump jets. Maeve's thunderbolt has jump jets.
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And jump jets. Maeve's thunderbolt has jump jets.
Yay, I learned something today :).
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Could the designer of the Ice Ferret K chime in and say whether it was supposed to be a WYSIWYG variant?
I don't know if the lower arm actuator/hand on the left arm should be errata or not.
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Its the way it spec'd out . . . BUT I also think some of this could be related to the lines in Rock of the Republic where Stone says the Clans have studied Tukayyid just like the Inner Sphere . . . so we are seeing Wolf purposed designs that are energy heavy, allow for use of force multiplying munitons (look at the use of Inferno from Thresher II on vehicles) or conserve expendables (Streak LRMs on Griffin C, iOS-SSRM2 on Wasp C). Be interesting to see if the Ice Ferret F or K turned out to be Crusader Wolf configs.
For all those who were involved in the Small Laser discussion . . . hey! The Ice Ferret J makes the Phantom H the ERSL crowd was wanting.
Edit- on quick reflection, the actual answer to your question is not one or the other but both. Alaric is arming as many warriors has he can- putting Clan weapons IS chassis, building what he can as quickly/cheaply as possible, and buying mechs from other folks like the Foxes. The Thresher II was a meeting of needs.
I need to read Rock of the Republic.
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The one thing we know about Maeve's Thunderbolt is that it has a Clan tech missile launcher. The Thunderbolt C has no missile launcher at all.
My bad. :-[
Last time I read Wolf Pack was in the twentieth century. :wheelchair:
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Loving the Fenris J! Phantom C on steroids!
Damned if I didn't predict most of the Thresher II by just looking at the previously released cover!
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Could the designer of the Ice Ferret K chime in and say whether it was supposed to be a WYSIWYG variant?
I don't know if the lower arm actuator/hand on the left arm should be errata or not.
Only the T variants for old omnis need be.
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Only the T variants for old omnis need be.
A'ight, was wondering since it seemed pretty close to the art.
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Only the T variants for old omnis need be.
Interesting, the implications of that.
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Interesting, the implications of that.
In some cases it will be easy to make new configurations, others will be a bit trickier to work out.
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Anyone else curious if ol Deke found a way to beat EI madness?
Have we met Deke before?
Also:
- OMG, the Wasp C :o
- It was nice finding out what happened to Marge Sippers
- Pour one out for Micah Enlin
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Such great news. #4 out....how many will there be??
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Such great news. #4 out....how many will there be??
22. They're going to go through the end of August (Vol. 6) and then take a break until "early Fall."
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I think I'd pick a 1 or 2 whammie IIC over the 13 - lighter armor and more ammo over an XL (clan or not) do not give me the warm fuzzies.
I'm seriously ambivalent about the awesome too. Same problem as the 9Q - the range bands work if you're fighting inner sphere, but have no business butting heads with clan. At least the new guy gets head-caps though.
The thresher is a jumping heavy that doesn't have to worry about the LPL. Too bad about the heat issues. Super-Quickdraw?
The blackjack following the same pattern as the new grasshopper makes sense, but isn't what I wanted or expected.
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The Thresher II can move 13 hexes and fire its ERPPC & LPL to only overheat by 1 . . . really that 5 jump is for when you need to get away from someone who wants play tickle. When it closes in, drop the ERPPC for the LPL, LRM15- mines, ARAD, whatever- and SRM4 which should keep you pretty cool . . . this mech can go from someone's mid range to being a hex away, or easily keep RAF mechs at long range where it can chip away with ERPPC, LPL or LRM15 as the case determines.
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My bad. :-[
Last time I read Wolf Pack was in the twentieth century. :wheelchair:
My MUL notes even list it as possibly being a Thunderbolt C, alongside the quote from the novel that mentions clan tech missiles. Fortunately I checked the RS to make sure the C had misssiles and...time to change the note :).
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Wow, RecGuide4 was a winner. I love Matt Plog's art for the Thresher II. I have to admit that it so similar to Thunderbolt, it's crazy. I hate see what happens when it's design quirks kick in. It sounds like its going fall apart.
That Wasp C is RUDE AWAKENING when someone runs into it. I think it's worse than running into a Stinger IIC from TRO:ProtoTypes.
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When I was reading the Thresher II I was like "Oh this is a pretty normal Clan Mech." Then I noticed the MASC and Supercharger and was like "whaaaaaaaaaaat!?" when I saw the ground speed!
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Not 100% sure on how I feel about the Thresher II's Reflective armour. Upside is half damage from energy weapons. Downsides are all the penalties for Reflective and the fact that there's not much of it.
Still, that ground speed is a tad bananas.
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Superchargers are pod mountable, correct? Where's that Black Lanner?
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Not 100% sure on how I feel about the Thresher II's Reflective armour. Upside is half damage from energy weapons. Downsides are all the penalties for Reflective and the fact that there's not much of it.
Having a heavy mech with reflec makes for a nice pairing with the Warwolf and it's reactive armor, is how I'm looking at this.
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RE-lasers looking better and better, eh?
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RE-lasers looking better and better, eh?
The -1 to-hit really helps. ;)
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RE-lasers looking better and better, eh?
Sure . . . you can shoot out to 15 hexes being carried by that 4/6 or 5/8 design. I can hit at 23, 21 & 20 hexes . . . with the ability to keep the range open even if you run. Let's see how that works out with the REL.
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the range and weight are big issues for me. i mostly appreciate them as a can opener for hardened armor
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RE-lasers looking better and better, eh?
I was actually thinking that those PAC configs are looking better and better.
Still not the best weapon, but when you know you'll be facing a bunch of reflect...those armor-piercing rounds will be handy.
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Sure . . . you can shoot out to 15 hexes being carried by that 4/6 or 5/8 design. I can hit at 23, 21 & 20 hexes . . . with the ability to keep the range open even if you run. Let's see how that works out with the REL.
The Prey Seeker thinks your attempts to keep the range open are rather quaint.
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the prey seeker closing on a thresher ii reminds me of the adage "what happens when the dog finally catches the car?"
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The Prey Seeker thinks your attempts to keep the range open are rather quaint.
And a single Clan LPL hit will wreck the Prey Seeker while the Thresher takes what, two 5 point hits?
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The blackjack following the same pattern as the new grasshopper makes sense, but isn't what I wanted or expected.
I like that Grasshopper and I like this Blackjack. I never thought I'd be a fan of the light PPC, but here we are.
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And a single Clan LPL hit will wreck the Prey Seeker while the Thresher takes what, two 5 point hits?
Nah, he's just there to herd the Thresher. After all, 5 point hits add up when they're in the rear arc all the time.
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Thanks to TRO:GC, you could now field a very specific lance:
Woodsman
UCU-F4 Scarecrow
Cave Lion
Mad Dog
"Follow the Exodus Road!"
"Follow the Exodus Road!"
"Follow, follow, follow, follow, follow the Exodus Road!"
(Sung by a Cluster of Elementals with their speaker systems pitched way too high.)
OpFor: Mandrill LAMs
Commence Operation RUBY SLIPPERS
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Thanks to TRO:GC, you could now field a very specific lance:
Woodsman
UCU-F4 Scarecrow
Cave Lion
Mad Dog
"Follow the Exodus Road!"
"Follow the Exodus Road!"
"Follow, follow, follow, follow, follow the Exodus Road!"
(Sung by a Cluster of Elementals with their speaker systems pitched way too high.)
OpFor: Mandrill LAMs
Commence Operation RUBY SLIPPERS
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/62006375/i-mean-its-not-wrong-its-just-not-right.jpg)
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Thanks to TRO:GC, you could now field a very specific lance:
Woodsman
UCU-F4 Scarecrow
Cave Lion
Mad Dog
"Follow the Exodus Road!"
"Follow the Exodus Road!"
"Follow, follow, follow, follow, follow the Exodus Road!"
(Sung by a Cluster of Elementals with their speaker systems pitched way too high.)
OpFor: Mandrill LAMs
Commence Operation RUBY SLIPPERS
What about the Agrotera to represent Dorothy?
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What about the Agrotera to represent Dorothy?
As an avatar for a Kansas farmgirl, a CattleMaster speaks more strongly to me.
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Subbing the Cattlemaster for the Mad Dog, that's a Lance I would paint up. ;D I'm surprised I never thought of it!
What about the Agrotera to represent Dorothy?
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Subbing the Cattlemaster for the Mad Dog, that's a Lance I would paint up. ;D I'm surprised I never thought of it!
The Mad Dog is to be Toto . . . but since it would be a ilClan force going to revisit the Home Worlds . . . you need that 5th mech for Dorothy. A Highlander might suit, after all she did a Burial on that wicked witch.
-
Thanks to TRO:GC, you could now field a very specific lance:
Woodsman
UCU-F4 Scarecrow
Cave Lion
Mad Dog
"Follow the Exodus Road!"
"Follow the Exodus Road!"
"Follow, follow, follow, follow, follow the Exodus Road!"
(Sung by a Cluster of Elementals with their speaker systems pitched way too high.)
OpFor: Mandrill LAMs
Commence Operation RUBY SLIPPERS
Where's Dorothy? If you have Toto, you have to a Dorothy.
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Doloire is closer to Dorothy
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Where's Dorothy? If you have Toto, you have to a Dorothy.
CattleMaster (or Harvester Ant) for the farmgirl.
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For looks, Toto would be a Snow Fox, at least for me.
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And the Wizard of Oz being a Quasit?
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The wizard is a Merlin, obviously
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Given *this* wizard, I'd say the Quasit is more appropriate. :)
-
Thanks to TRO:GC, you could now field a very specific lance:
Woodsman
UCU-F4 Scarecrow
Cave Lion
Mad Dog
"Follow the Exodus Road!"
"Follow the Exodus Road!"
"Follow, follow, follow, follow, follow the Exodus Road!"
(Sung by a Cluster of Elementals with their speaker systems pitched way too high.)
OpFor: Mandrill LAMs
Commence Operation RUBY SLIPPERS
I think this scenario right here is more than enough justification to create a Clan LAM program
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I think this scenario right here is more than enough justification to create a Clan LAM program
Hierofafcon A isn't close enough to a LAM for you?
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Hierofafcon A isn't close enough to a LAM for you?
Is it a flying monke......a Mandrill class LAM?
Is it?
IS IT?
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no, and we continue to be worse for it
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Why not use WiGE protomechs? ... lots of them!
Would be nice to get them above tree top though ...
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WiGE
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/ADr35Z4TvATIc/200.gif)
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Why not use WiGE protomechs? ... lots of them!
Well, the Hippogriff . . . does sort of give that image.
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I have nursing serious doubts Clans will want resurrect LAMs. I like them after fashion. They were serious nerfed by the rules revision. The Clan that hated them is essentially dead.
That all said, Glider ProtoMechs are closed active units in the game that mecha-like that flies at the moment. However RecGuide series will surprise me greatly if one shows up since for bizarre reason it's not believe 1 person can drive singleton LAM way past history was written.
Only people who MAY have technology is the Republic, but the've been sticking with the try and true at moment.
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TRO Golden Century is out?
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TRO Golden Century is out?
In PDF and paperback.
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TRO Golden Century is out?
Yeah;
https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-technical-readout-golden-century
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/318818/BattleTech-Technical-Readout-Golden-Century
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Is that print-on-demand or can I expect to see it in the local store?
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It's only available POD, but so is the Era Digest.
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After thinking about it some more, the new Warhammer IIC reminds me a lot of the Hellbringer. Lots of guns, not as much armor as most 'Mechs its weight. Of course, the Warhammer's armor is "only" the normal amount for a 'Mech about ten tons lighter, not twenty-five.
If someone other than Clans has access to it, I would use it to guard fire support units.
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Like a Helios IIC?
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Pretty much, yeah, now that you mention it. I hadn't thought of the Helios, but the Warhammer IIC would work in the same role--able to contribute at long range with the LRMs and PPCs, but it's really there to hit anything that gets close with a bunch of MPLs.
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I think that my favorite new 'Mech in RecGuide Volume 4 is that snazzy new Trebuchet, although the Awesome is a close second. Between those two and that new Lupus factory on Marik, the Free Worlds League really made out like bandits on Friday.
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Is that print-on-demand or can I expect to see it in the local store?
It’s print on demand, so it will not be released through FLGS.
Good thing too, as my local flgs is me all the new BTech books as they come out, so I currently have copies of the new releases of Destiny, Alpha Strike and at least two other rules books waiting on me. This way, I don’t have to worry about a new TRO and sourcebook on top of them (at least not these two).
Ruger
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I like that Grasshopper and I like this Blackjack. I never thought I'd be a fan of the light PPC, but here we are.
I was expecting a LB2/x on the BJ, and would be quite willing to face a downgrade to er mediums for it. Some things it's a matter of just hitting.
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Im sorry if I missed it somewhere, but was it said somewhere if the collected recognition guide TRO will have all of the models in the guide line, or only a selection? Would like to end up with a single PDF file product if possible.
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There are plans to have a compilation print on demand volume at the end but it isn’t known how many will be included
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I'd imagine the series will need at least two compilations, unless a lot of stuff is omitted. Which would be disappointing.
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many ’Mechs featured in this series will be collected as a single print volume upon its completion.
Based on that wording on the coming releases page, it’s currently leaning toward some rather than all
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Ahh, damn, guess i'll need to get the entire digital series then.
A pity there's not pre-buy collection option...
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I’m guessing few firm decisions have been made so lobbying for what you want may not be as futile as something further into development
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Based on that wording on the coming releases page, it’s currently leaning toward some rather than all
As Sartris says, no firm decisions yet on what the eventual print collection will look like. It'd be a beefy print product, even if the record sheets were separated from the regular text.
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Mark me down as someone that wants all of the things, not just some of the things, in one volume. I'm specifically not buying the individual RecGuides because I want One Book.
In fact, if it's too much for one book, I'd happily buy a beefy Compilation RecGuide AND its Compiled Record Sheets in two volumes.
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Mark me down as someone that wants all of the things, not just some of the things, in one volume. I'm specifically not buying the individual RecGuides because I want One Book.
In fact, if it's too much for one book, I'd happily buy a beefy Compilation RecGuide AND its Compiled Record Sheets in two volumes.
Let me kill this idea now: it's going to be FAR too much to have both the RecGuide text and the sheets in a single volume. At about 32 pages per BMRG volume, times 22 volumes, you're talking about a 704-page book. Largest single book ever produced for BT, by hundreds of pages. Not a chance in hell.
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I'd assume even if we'd ignore record sheets and assume only half is content (and remove few pages of repeated stuff like intro pages, we'd be looking at something like 300 pages, i think? Probably too much.
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each of the four released RecGuides have 10 pages of TRO content - 13 total, but 1 is the cover and 2-3 are repeated in every volume with a few changes to the writing and fact-checking credits (the RS section always starts on pg 14)
that's 220 if the pattern holds... so we'll say 230-240 including credits, table of contents, IC and OOC background, section separators (if any), etc. without the RS component, it's certainly less daunting.
the three current era TROs weigh in at 194 (93 mechs each). dunno if that's a magic production number or anything.
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220? I'd imagine that is doable, especially since there's probably some minor stuff (some pilots, maybe some older variants) that could be omitted to compress stuff to under 200 pages.
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As it stands, there only 22 brand new Mechs coming out when RecGuide series is done. Unless there going to some more surprises. Were getting alot variants with new art.
I like the new books have record sheets. It feels weird its just mechs.
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As it stands, there only 22 brand new Mechs coming out when RecGuide series is done. Unless there going to some more surprises. Were getting alot variants with new art.
I like the new books have record sheets. It feels weird its just mechs.
Vol 3 has technically two new 'Mechs (Hierofalcon and Shadow Cat III), while others have 1 so far. Assuming at least one per volume, we're looking at least 23.
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Vol 3 has technically two new 'Mechs (Hierofalcon and Shadow Cat III), while others have 1 so far. Assuming at least one per volume, we're looking at least 23.
Hmm, i hadn't thought of the Shadow Cat III as being all-new version. I guess it is, i thought it was another MW Dark Age refugee.
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Hmm, i hadn't thought of the Shadow Cat III as being all-new version. I guess it is, i thought it was another MW Dark Age refugee.
It was . . . never in a TRO, you got the RS from IWM. It was a weird release.
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The combination of TRO and RS is brilliant and definitely driving the way I purchase these.
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220? I'd imagine that is doable, especially since there's probably some minor stuff (some pilots, maybe some older variants) that could be omitted to compress stuff to under 200 pages.
No decisions have been made at this time. Speculation here will not influence them.
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not even for a scooby snack?
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not even for a scooby snack?
Not even for a KLONDIKE bar.
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Hmm, i hadn't thought of the Shadow Cat III as being all-new version. I guess it is, i thought it was another MW Dark Age refugee.
It was . . . never in a TRO, you got the RS from IWM. It was a weird release.
Someone asked about the Shadow Cat III on ask devs/writers, and Ray's answer was basically that the RS from IWM were official but the unit wouldn't be canon per se before it would appear in a product.
So, a new unit.
No decisions have been made at this time. Speculation here will not influence them.
Wasn't the intent, just pondering.
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Not even for a KLONDIKE bar.
I see what you did there, and I only have a facepalm to offer you.
Meanwhile, I'd like to see TPTB not combine them all. I've bought all the releases so far, plan to buy the rest, and just like with the faction minis way back when, I would feel rather resentful that I spent $88 dollars on a $30-40 supplement I could have waited for. I mean, granted, I'm a completionist and bought the 3145 and 3150 releases for the (minor) changes, but it's the principle of the thing.
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I'm seriously ambivalent about the awesome too. Same problem as the 9Q - the range bands work if you're fighting inner sphere, but have no business butting heads with clan. At least the new guy gets head-caps though.
Well, it makes sense as a defensive unit for the FWL. Granted the Wolves have better equipment, but three 15 point hits is nothing to sneeze at. And don't forget you can always shame the Clan warrior into a close range combat. "What the High-And-Mighty Wolf Warrior, Heir to the Great Kerensky is afraid of my little Spheroid BattleMech? You have to fight from range? How quaint."
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I see what you did there, and I only have a facepalm to offer you.
Meanwhile, I'd like to see TPTB not combine them all. I've bought all the releases so far, plan to buy the rest, and just like with the faction minis way back when, I would feel rather resentful that I spent $88 dollars on a $30-40 supplement I could have waited for. I mean, granted, I'm a completionist and bought the 3145 and 3150 releases for the (minor) changes, but it's the principle of the thing.
CGL have already committed to a compiled version.
"Released as a series of 22 PDF-only documents through the end of 2020 and early 2021, many ’Mechs featured in this series will be collected as a single print volume upon its completion."
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CGL have already committed to a compiled version.
"Released as a series of 22 PDF-only documents through the end of 2020 and early 2021, many ’Mechs featured in this series will be collected as a single print volume upon its completion."
What I'm seeing in this thread is a desire for all of them. What I emphasized in your quote is what was originally pitched, an incomplete compilation. If Ray Et al. go for a complete compilation but break it up into two ilClan Recognition Books, I'd be okay with that. Especially if that cuts the record sheets out, and are then sold in a similar manner. Then fans who bought all the guides will be satisfied, and the ones who waited will get their compilations.
But, this is not a perfect world, and business needs come first. My disappointment is personal, and I would prefer Catalyst has increased profitability to allow more projects to go forward.
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Well, it makes sense as a defensive unit for the FWL. Granted the Wolves have better equipment, but three 15 point hits is nothing to sneeze at. And don't forget you can always shame the Clan warrior into a close range combat. "What the High-And-Mighty Wolf Warrior, Heir to the Great Kerensky is afraid of my little Spheroid BattleMech? You have to fight from range? How quaint."
Which may work on the Jaguars or even more recent Falcons . . . Wolves would just laugh and continue to lob ER ATMs and ERLL blasts.
During the Jihad, a HPPC as a development and stop-gap measure like the primitives makes some sense- you are trying to increase the damage potential during a period of disrupted supply lines. For a new build mech with Clan ERPPCs for sale on the open market . . . its a more questionable IC choice.
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'Clan PPCs being for sale' and 'Clan PPCs being available in the quantity and cost needed to supply another full mech production line' are two very different things. Even if they jack up the prices as high as their black hearts could possibly desire, I'd still be amazed if the Foxes and other manufacturers could actually produce enough of those guns to meet the Sphere-wide demand.
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What I'm seeing in this thread is a desire for all of them. What I emphasized in your quote is what was originally pitched, an incomplete compilation. If Ray Et al. go for a complete compilation but break it up into two ilClan Recognition Books, I'd be okay with that. Especially if that cuts the record sheets out, and are then sold in a similar manner. Then fans who bought all the guides will be satisfied, and the ones who waited will get their compilations.
But, this is not a perfect world, and business needs come first. My disappointment is personal, and I would prefer Catalyst has increased profitability to allow more projects to go forward.
There are only going to be 22 Recognition Guides.
That is between 22 and 50 new Mechs, or at least units that have never appeared in a TRO before.
The rest of the 220 pages are filled with snippets and small paragraphs that do little but update existing designs.
I don't see much likelihood of two volumes, but it is too early to say
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'Clan PPCs being for sale' and 'Clan PPCs being available in the quantity and cost needed to supply another full mech production line' are two very different things. Even if they jack up the prices as high as their black hearts could possibly desire, I'd still be amazed if the Foxes and other manufacturers could actually produce enough of those guns to meet the Sphere-wide demand.
Yes, prioritization matters . . . but its a 3/5 assault. No matter how heavy the hammer you can swing, it does not matter if no one is in reach. The Blitzkreig with a HPPC is one thing- because it can bring that weapon to bear, no matter that using it is 'wasteful,' but a 3/5 assault with what would be considered for the most part medium range weapons with a minimum is a poor IC choice. It also cannot be played off like some 3050 designs, where it is designed to face just IS foes and never deploy to the Clan zones . . . the Clan spec tech is being produced all over the place- to include the producer of this design. Whoever ends up buying the mech, IC, is going to be placing the pilot using it at a disadvantage in most situations even against IS weapons where the Awesome will have to be wading into at least 1 turn of free fire from IS ERPPCs, Gauss Rifles, and sometimes LRMs.
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as most people don't play games where engagements stay at 20+ hexes, i don't see it as a practical concern for actual usage
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Whoever ends up buying the mech, IC, is going to be placing the pilot using it at a disadvantage in most situations even against IS weapons where the Awesome will have to be wading into at least 1 turn of free fire from IS ERPPCs, Gauss Rifles, and sometimes LRMs.
Ah yes, and now we venture into the famed "salt flat" argument territory, where cover and intervening terrain never exist and the 'Mech being debated over is forced into an offensive role against entrenched opponents that always use optimal counter-weaponry.
But beyond that, I like HPPCs over cERPPCs on this for one simple reason: it keeps BV reasonable. 2000 BV I can fit into a lance. But going up to 2400 or 2500 from mounting cERPPCs? Then it starts to venture into the territory of being a unit I'll never play in stand-up games.
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Ah yes, and now we venture into the famed "salt flat" argument territory, where cover and intervening terrain never exist and the 'Mech being debated over is forced into an offensive role against entrenched opponents that always use optimal counter-weaponry.
But beyond that, I like HPPCs over cERPPCs on this for one simple reason: it keeps BV reasonable. 2000 BV I can fit into a lance. But going up to 2400 or 2500 from mounting cERPPCs? Then it starts to venture into the territory of being a unit I'll never play in stand-up games.
Not talking salt flats- because the range brackets also shift going down. Have it face a old 3050s Falconer at 10-20 hexes, the Falconer is going to be able to hit 2 hexes where the Awesome cannot respond. It will have 2-3 hexes depending on weapon system where it is at med range while the Awesome is at long, and if the Falconer wants to rush forward, it can get under the minimum range. It also has the mobility to dictate position and range- and if you do not put it on relatively flat uncluttered maps its going to have even more problems getting into effective ranges.
But I also suggested it would be better off with IS ERPPCs- because when you are that slow you do not want another handicap getting into the fight.
Finally, our maps- like BV- are artificial constructs for the game. Last time I took a terrain map to convert to a BT map for MM, it did not look like your typical BT map- same for Fulda Gap. Maps are designed to be 'neutral' (yeah, check Clanner opinion on that one) to provide variety and keep 'I win' buttons from being mashed just because you pick a specific side of the map to start. Historically battlefields end up in relatively open & flat spaces because that is where the value is and where you maneuvered a force- I would love to see (and never thought about it before) a MM map series for places like Marathon, Flanders (WWI), Cannae, Tours, and other historical battlefields. I have looked at Kursk and the Fulda Gap briefly. Convert a battlefield from a meeting engagement to a BT map, then talk to me about the 'salt flat' stuff.
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CGL have already committed to a compiled version.
"Released as a series of 22 PDF-only documents through the end of 2020 and early 2021, many ’Mechs featured in this series will be collected as a single print volume upon its completion."
My personal hope is for a TRO with 100-150 of the most relevant 'Mechs (common, stay in production, frontline).
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Not talking salt flats- because the range brackets also shift going down. Have it face a old 3050s Falconer at 10-20 hexes, the Falconer is going to be able to hit 2 hexes where the Awesome cannot respond. It will have 2-3 hexes depending on weapon system where it is at med range while the Awesome is at long, and if the Falconer wants to rush forward, it can get under the minimum range. It also has the mobility to dictate position and range- and if you do not put it on relatively flat uncluttered maps its going to have even more problems getting into effective ranges.
But I also suggested it would be better off with IS ERPPCs- because when you are that slow you do not want another handicap getting into the fight.
Finally, our maps- like BV- are artificial constructs for the game. Last time I took a terrain map to convert to a BT map for MM, it did not look like your typical BT map- same for Fulda Gap. Maps are designed to be 'neutral' (yeah, check Clanner opinion on that one) to provide variety and keep 'I win' buttons from being mashed just because you pick a specific side of the map to start. Historically battlefields end up in relatively open & flat spaces because that is where the value is and where you maneuvered a force- I would love to see (and never thought about it before) a MM map series for places like Marathon, Flanders (WWI), Cannae, Tours, and other historical battlefields. I have looked at Kursk and the Fulda Gap briefly. Convert a battlefield from a meeting engagement to a BT map, then talk to me about the 'salt flat' stuff.
the "artificial" game is the most tangible, real part of battletech - including the maps, which have likely hosted a majority of combat. the imagining of the "real" universe is the true construct. i'm not playing in that imagined space. is capping out at 18 ideal? no. is that lumbering slab of armor going to be denied medium range shots in the majority of games it participates? also no.
it's a playing piece in a game - one that is not optimal, but functional.
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Not talking salt flats- because the range brackets also shift going down. Have it face a old 3050s Falconer at 10-20 hexes, the Falconer is going to be able to hit 2 hexes where the Awesome cannot respond. It will have 2-3 hexes depending on weapon system where it is at med range while the Awesome is at long, and if the Falconer wants to rush forward, it can get under the minimum range. It also has the mobility to dictate position and range- and if you do not put it on relatively flat uncluttered maps its going to have even more problems getting into effective ranges.
And then I can say "have the old 3050s Falconer face the new Ostscout -11J". This time, it's the Ostscout that can hit 2 hexes where the Falconer can't respond. It has an extra hex of short range that it can exploit, and it has the mobility to dictate position and range.
Or alternatively, the Tomahawk II. Following this line of thought, the Tomahawk II is badly designed, because it has no guns to respond to something like the Orion 3-M and its 24 rounds of fire for its ELRMs. It's just gonna get kited all day.
I guess I should say that my point is that nothing ever happens in a void. The Awesome (and the Falconer, and the Tomahawk II, and any other unit) will always be working as part of a larger whole, usually covering each other's weaknesses. So while a FWL formation might have an Orion to cover the longer ranged side of things, the Wolves could have a Night Wolf to act as more of a brawler. These other 'Mechs will cover the weaknesses of the aforementioned units; the FWL has plenty of units that can fight at long and extreme ranges, and plenty that can bruise up close. Having the Awesome be a midfield specialist complements that nicely.
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I've bought all the releases so far, plan to buy the rest, and just like with the faction minis way back when, I would feel rather resentful that I spent $88 dollars on a $30-40 supplement I could have waited for. I mean, granted, I'm a completionist and bought the 3145 and 3150 releases for the (minor) changes, but it's the principle of the thing.
So here's the thing. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket about an eventual compilation. I'm sure it'll happen in some form which we don't have specifics for at this time.
But more to the point: we don't want people to wait for the eventual compilation. These products are being released in the way that they are in the hopes that customers will see the value in the individual $3.99 price points and pick them up as consistent, "bite-size" installments of BattleTech content. They're something of an experiment, to see whether there's appetite for frequent, smaller BT releases; and to see whether we can deliver those releases consistently. (From an editing perspective, this is one reason I've been a bit militant behind the scenes about getting RecGuide manuscripts in and turning them around. Other dates may and have slipped, but we're really trying like hell to make sure the RecGuides don't.)
Of course, anyone can do the math, and realize that $88 is likely somewhat more than the eventual collection(s) will be. But maybe not a lot more - TRO 3145 and TRO 3150 were $40 each, remember. (Though I hesitate to use those two volumes as any kind of example of what we might do with a RecGuide collection.) There will always be some customers who choose to wait and get whatever collections may come out. That's fine. But I don't want to encourage that sentiment by making any guarantees about what those collections will look like.
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Of course, anyone can do the math, and realize that $88 is likely somewhat more than the eventual collection(s) will be. But maybe not a lot more - TRO 3145 and TRO 3150 were $40 each, remember. (Though I hesitate to use those two volumes as any kind of example of what we might do with a RecGuide collection.) There will always be some customers who choose to wait and get whatever collections may come out. That's fine. But I don't want to encourage that sentiment by making any guarantees about what those collections will look like.
Do not forget the $?? for the RS book of all the designs that did not get sheets.
Personally, I have bought 2 of the RecGuides that interested me- which is also part of the reason I am quick to ask for the table of contents . . . this last one, with the Thresher II, Ice Ferret, Warhammer IIC and even Wasp C appealed to me.
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I've been enjoying the Rec Guides so far, and I'll probably wind up getting the lot. I liked the old Xtro series too, even if I've never fielded any of them on the table.
For the PDFs at that price point, I look at it as throwing a couple bills CGL's way. Voting with my wallet that I like what they do and think they should be paid for it.
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Some thoughts on new 'Mechs:
Vol1:
The Dominator looks sleek but jump jet/speed boost combo is worrying, so expensive. Especially when the 'Mech's firepower isn't that great to begin with (for a Clan 'Mech of this weight class). Still, it should be quite usable. The variant does do some nice changes though, a bit more to my liking. Just hope it gets a miniature.
The Griffin 3N is nice as something that matches the new looks exactly. A pity it had to cram ammo into otherwise empty side torso but at least it does have CASE II. Enhanced LRMs are stupid but it does work OK here. There are better Griffin variants around though. Don't care for the Griffin C due to IJJs, very disappointed about it having those.
If the Goliath C gets a miniature, i'd be interested. First time i say this about the Goliath.
Vol2:
The Sojourner as a cool name but otherwise the 'Mech leaves me a bit cold. It does look utilitarian, that and its lack of XLFE fits the Wolf-in-exile at the moment. But it is slow for its weight class, and has weird configurations. Not the worst thing around to be sure, but not something i'd really take, though then again i'm not a WiE player.
The new Zeus is great, good art and it is pretty good. The biggest issue is that it is starting to feel like a pure Clan 'Mech rather than a technological hybrid, but i suppose there's no really way around that.
The Stone Rhino's new art is great. The new variant gets points for its absurd simplicity.
The Grendel T is pretty nice, think i'd prefer it to the Prime. The sole issue as i see it is using an iHSL rather than another Clan ERSL but it is not a big deal.
The Bushwacker X4 fluff does tie nicely to the Gauntlet and explains the Gauntlet's looks nicely, first time we actually get acknowledgement it looks like an Omni-Bushwacker. The new Bushwacker itself is... well, it is OK, though i'm disappointed at lack of an autocannon as the main gun, and MMLs always leave me a bit miffed, as they erase differences between SRMs and LRMs too much.
The new Urbie is one of the few 'Mechs where i don't mind IJJs. Tough bastard.
Vol3:
The Hierofalcon looks very very interesting. Art is nice, though i wish it had more elaborate partial wing, like its standard predecessors Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Jade Hawk, and Shrike have. Can't wait to see the Jade Phoenix. I do wish this had used either reflective armor or laser heat sinks for maximum high tech feel but that is a minor complaint. Wish it had more Prime-like configs, one big gun and a couple of smaller ones, though it does have interesting selection of configuration as it is. Hope it gets nice miniature variants.
The Shadow Cat III is OK upgrade but not terribly interesting. Looks good.
The Summoner T config is weird. It does fix the ammo issues in a funny way, but not sure it is that good. Points for little used weapons though.
The Adder T config on the other hand is great. The heat sinks work out very nicely for "charge one, fire one" firing pattern while the coolant pod allows for one time double-shot. I probably would've used two coolant pods rather than an extra heat sink but whatever, it works.
Vol4:
The new Awesome is pretty nice. Feels like a good hybrid tech combination, where the Zeus felt a lot like it was just Clan-spec Zeus. My second favorite Awesome certainly, though it doesn't take the AWS-9M's place.
The new Blackjack looks good, interesting armament too. Too little ammo to make use of special munitions though.
The Thresher II is cool. Unfortunately it is really expensive, thanks to JJ/speed boost combo and use of reflective armor. I do play Dark Age with increased BV limit, but still it feels expensive. Still, it is interesting, if a bit eclectic.
Very interesting so far. Can't wait for more.
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Just gave the Coming Releases (https://bg.battletech.com/books/upcoming-releases/) page a little clean up, and uploaded these two covers for your enjoyment:
(https://i.ibb.co/GPp8Gfz/Recog-Guide-Cover-05.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2KhCR0G)
(https://i.ibb.co/KhkXNKW/Recog-Guide-Cover-06.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wgXRJc4)
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Oh, nice, gonna be interesting to see what kind of "match the looks" variants the Timber Wolf and Marauder are gonna get.
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I'm putting five bucks on a Marauder that gets the Battlemaster 6C treatment. Over/under LAC/5s and LAC/2s on the arms with an LB-10X in the torso. :D
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I'm putting five bucks on a Marauder that gets the Battlemaster 6C treatment. Over/under LAC/5s and LAC/2s on the arms with an LB-10X in the torso. :D
Doesn't seem too likely. Kinda interesting to be sure but... Pretty sure the 6C is actually based on one art where the Beemer ejects casings from its back while firing not-lasers on its torso. Does the Marauder have any similar weird art?
EDIT Found the "source art" for the 6C:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rolling_Thunder_(scenario_pack)
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I'm putting five bucks on a Marauder that gets the Battlemaster 6C treatment. Over/under LAC/5s and LAC/2s on the arms with an LB-10X in the torso. :D
A Dakkarauder? :)
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Vol2:
The Sojourner as a cool name but otherwise the 'Mech leaves me a bit cold. It does look utilitarian, that and its lack of XLFE fits the Wolf-in-exile at the moment. But it is slow for its weight class, and has weird configurations. Not the worst thing around to be sure, but not something i'd really take, though then again i'm not a WiE player.
If you did not noticed, the right arm of the Sojourner has AES- which is why its built with the configs it has. It is a design that, like the original Panther, WANTS a BF Gun arm . . . and for the most part delivers it.
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If you did not noticed, the right arm of the Sojourner has AES- which is why its built with the configs it has. It is a design that, like the original Panther, WANTS a BF Gun arm . . . and for the most part delivers it.
I noticed all right. It is just that it still has weird configs. Quad micro lasers in left arm? Weird AC mixes? Missile config that doesn't take advantage of AES? Standard heavy laser rather than improved heavy laser (though i suppose this can be explained with supply issues)? Why fixed supercharger?
Leaves me pretty cold all in all.
EDIT Points for actually having a missile support config, too many OmniMechs have only variations of a theme instead of having configs for various different roles. Too bad most others are mixed and/or eclectic.
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A Dakkarauder? :)
A JagerMarauder. Perhaps even a JagerMeister.
Or perhaps something else: an Annihilittle.
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"The ultimate Davion Marauder! Five autocannons!"
"And they're all LAC-2s ..."
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I'll admit now that I'm kind of hoping that the Mad Cat is not just "and then the Wolf Empire put it back into production again" and has some sort of interesting twist
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I'll admit now that I'm kind of hoping that the Mad Cat is not just "and then the Wolf Empire put it back into production again" and has some sort of interesting twist
I'm of two minds about it. It would make the Dominator pretty redundant, but the Wolves don't seem to mind redundancy in their designs.
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I'd imagine the Mad Cat only gets new configs, to keep the chassis relevant. The Hellbringer and Summoner are in production by the Jade Falcons and Hell's Horses, respectively (amusingly each produces advanced version of the other's product) but that's presumably because those factories got built long ago.
There is little sense putting the Mad Cat back to production considering the amount of others that are very similar to it: The Grand Summoner, Warwolf, Vulture III and IV, Savage Wolf (this one especially!), probably something i forgot. (Mad Cat Mk2 and Mk3 don't quite count due to their different classes.) Sure, the Mad Cat is good and has good reputation, but otherwise it doesn't offer anything special.
The Woodsman uses SFE so it does work as a budget Omni.
EDIT uh, looks like the Exiled Wolves have been producing the Timber Wolf for a while? They had like two factories for it. I suppose those are no longer operation, due to the Falcon's attack on Ark Royal, but there should plenty of Timbys around still.
EDIT2 OK, looks like even Wolves are building Angry Kitties? Per Objectives: The Clans.
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The Stone Rhino's new art is great. The new variant gets points for its absurd simplicity.
I'd have to say the Stone Rhino is my favourite entry so far.
Maybe because the art is such an improvement over the Project Phoenix version.
Variant 5 also gives us a version of the MAC Monster.
Variant 4 is flawed with the SHS, but the swapping out of the weapons for one centred on LRMs is very Jaguar-esque and in keeping with other Jaguar designs. They did the same thing with the Peregrine/Horned Owl and Warhammer IIC, where they paired a triple of the prime variant with a duo of the LRM version. Imagine an assault Star doing the same...three prime Stone Rhinos, with a a pair of the LRM variant. Even better if the "production model" was to have DHS.
About the only thing missing is the 3025 variant used by the Dragoons. I would assume a downgrade of Variant 5, slower moving but with additional heat sinks and possibly ammunition.
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I'll admit now that I'm kind of hoping that the Mad Cat is not just "and then the Wolf Empire put it back into production again" and has some sort of interesting twist
Why should the Timber Wolf be alone in getting some sort of "interesting" twist?
The Hellbringer, Summoner, Ice Ferret, Linebacker and Adder have all been established as under production by atleast one party who traditionally produced them. Doing so would be incongruous, singling out the Timber Wolf where other designs have stuck to their course.
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I'd imagine the Mad Cat only gets new configs, to keep the chassis relevant. The Hellbringer and Summoner are in production by the Jade Falcons and Hell's Horses, respectively (amusingly each produces advanced version of the other's product) but that's presumably because those factories got built long ago.
There is little sense putting the Mad Cat back to production considering the amount of others that are very similar to it: The Grand Summoner, Warwolf, Vulture III and IV, Savage Wolf (this one especially!), probably something i forgot. (Mad Cat Mk2 and Mk3 don't quite count due to their different classes.) Sure, the Mad Cat is good and has good reputation, but otherwise it doesn't offer anything special.
The Woodsman uses SFE so it does work as a budget Omni.
EDIT uh, looks like the Exiled Wolves have been producing the Timber Wolf for a while? They had like two factories for it. I suppose those are no longer operation, due to the Falcon's attack on Ark Royal, but there should plenty of Timbys around still.
Yes...but given the various new models, I'd like to see more designs fall by the wayside and cease production. The Timber Wolf is a great design and iconic, but as you pointed out there are alternatives now.
The Warhawk is apparently a dead design and all but extinct (in the IS at least) and the Dire Wolf is rare for example, both fitting given their age, new models and links with the Jags. There isn't really any need to keep them in production given newer models eclipse them. That was one of the flaws of Phoenix...FASA should simply have stated the Unseen had simply ceased production and let them fade.
There needs to be room for new designs and while I'll welcome the updates in the RecGuides, there also needs to be a point when production ceases.
The Timber Wolf already has the Savage Wolf, Rabid Wolf and Frost Wolf as newer replacements as well
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Frost Wolf?
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Rabid Wolf and Frost Wolf
The what?
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(https://24.media.tumblr.com/0579f847e79ffb1da38c4fb74e354ac6/tumblr_n0p93crFBk1s8lowro4_250.gif)
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Yes...but given the various new models, I'd like to see more designs fall by the wayside and cease production. The Timber Wolf is a great design and iconic, but as you pointed out there are alternatives now.
The Warhawk is apparently a dead design and all but extinct (in the IS at least) and the Dire Wolf is rare for example, both fitting given their age, new models and links with the Jags. There isn't really any need to keep them in production given newer models eclipse them. That was one of the flaws of Phoenix...FASA should simply have stated the Unseen had simply ceased production and let them fade.
There needs to be room for new designs and while I'll welcome the updates in the RecGuides, there also needs to be a point when production ceases.
The Timber Wolf already has the Savage Wolf, Rabid Wolf and Frost Wolf as newer replacements as well
well one thing to remember is that the new designs (Grand Summoner, Savage Wolf, Vulture III and IV, etc...) are pretty much around primarily so CGL could explain the WizKids designs from MWDA
the Warhawk never had a production site in the IS, the Dire Wolf had limited production in the IS (on Outreach was it?), so their rarity has nothing to do with age and everything to do with no more access to the Homeworlds factories that make them
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I noticed all right. It is just that it still has weird configs. Quad micro lasers in left arm? Weird AC mixes? Missile config that doesn't take advantage of AES? Standard heavy laser rather than improved heavy laser (though i suppose this can be explained with supply issues)? Why fixed supercharger?
Leaves me pretty cold all in all.
EDIT Points for actually having a missile support config, too many OmniMechs have only variations of a theme instead of having configs for various different roles. Too bad most others are mixed and/or eclectic.
Missiles do not get any benefit from AES. As far as Std vs Improved, I would prefer to keep explosive things out of the AES arm to preserve what is a more rare/complicated piece of equipment plus the attendant weaker armor than a torso location makes them more exposed.
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Missiles do not get any benefit from AES.
They do.
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Missiles do not get any benefit from AES. As far as Std vs Improved, I would prefer to keep explosive things out of the AES arm to preserve what is a more rare/complicated piece of equipment plus the attendant weaker armor than a torso location makes them more exposed.
Umm I might need a quote for that because as far as I have seen missiles do get a bonus from AES.
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ACTUATOR ENHANCEMENT
SYSTEM (AES)
An actuator enhancement system mounted in
an arm provides a –1 Target Number modifier for all weapon attacks
mounted in that arm
direct from BMM. Looks like it's everything.
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The Doloire uses AES on both arms, and one of its configs has AES-enhanced LRM with Artemis V. -2 to hit bonus total for missiles, pretty nice.
The Sojourner puts missiles on torsos, and uses the AES to negate heavy laser to-hit penalty, feeling all in all a bit lackluster.
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The what?
Frost Wolf is the Clan name for the Mad Cat MkII
Rabid Wolf is the Mad Cat III
Savage Wolf is the Mad Cat MkIV
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well one thing to remember is that the new designs (Grand Summoner, Savage Wolf, Vulture III and IV, etc...) are pretty much around primarily so CGL could explain the WizKids designs from MWDA
the Warhawk never had a production site in the IS, the Dire Wolf had limited production in the IS (on Outreach was it?), so their rarity has nothing to do with age and everything to do with no more access to the Homeworlds factories that make them
Which doesn't alter that the fact they are (near) extinct or rare and that production appears to have permanently stopped is fitting and an all to rare example of something that should be more common.
The Timber Wolf should be in the same category, but given it is a cover Mech, it has probably got a factory somewhere
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Frost Wolf is the Clan name for the Mad Cat MkII
Rabid Wolf is the Mad Cat III
I've never seen those names anywhere before. Citation needed.
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So here's the thing. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket about an eventual compilation. I'm sure it'll happen in some form which we don't have specifics for at this time.
But more to the point: we don't want people to wait for the eventual compilation. These products are being released in the way that they are in the hopes that customers will see the value in the individual $3.99 price points and pick them up as consistent, "bite-size" installments of BattleTech content. They're something of an experiment, to see whether there's appetite for frequent, smaller BT releases; and to see whether we can deliver those releases consistently. (From an editing perspective, this is one reason I've been a bit militant behind the scenes about getting RecGuide manuscripts in and turning them around. Other dates may and have slipped, but we're really trying like hell to make sure the RecGuides don't.)
Of course, anyone can do the math, and realize that $88 is likely somewhat more than the eventual collection(s) will be. But maybe not a lot more - TRO 3145 and TRO 3150 were $40 each, remember. (Though I hesitate to use those two volumes as any kind of example of what we might do with a RecGuide collection.) There will always be some customers who choose to wait and get whatever collections may come out. That's fine. But I don't want to encourage that sentiment by making any guarantees about what those collections will look like.
I'm sure the logistics may not be great, but I'd be willing to buy every RecGuide...if I got a free copy of the eventual compilation releases perhaps (or just compile the RecGuides for us into a single pdf with an index). The $88 vs. $40 bit isn't a real consideration either to me (although who doesn't like a discount?). It would be nice if the eventual compilation release(s) has everything in the RecGuides, but it's more about duplication and trying to keep the pdf clutter own a bit when it comes to being hesitant to buy the RecGuides vs. waiting for compilations. Want to see a design or check some text for a lore reference? I could open a compilation TRO and look at the index - or I could shuffle through a bunch of RecGuides looking for it until I find it in the 10th one I check.
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Modern Windows OS allows you to do keyword searches of PDFs within folders - key in “Ostroc” and any pdf with that text string inside will pop up. No need to manually hunt.
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Which doesn't alter that the fact they are (near) extinct or rare and that production appears to have permanently stopped is fitting and an all to rare example of something that should be more common.
The Timber Wolf should be in the same category, but given it is a cover Mech, it has probably got a factory somewhere
Well . . . the Warden Wolves were building them on Arc Royal into the Jihad. The Crusader Wolves were hand assembling them before the move- at a guess taking parts (like Tundra Wolf gyros & actuators, etc) and later the Warwolf would use the same engine- and we do not know if they were being built in the Empire later.
Bluntly, its sort of like complaining the Marauder or Atlas is still built.
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And, from a practical standpoint, if Catalyst is putting out newly redesigned minis for the classic omnis as part of the Kickstarter, why would they declare those designs "extinct" in the modern era (3150+)?
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Every other omni that's been in the Recognition Guides has been put back into production- the Thor, Puma, and Loki. I don't see any reason why the Mad Cat, Masakari, or Daishi wouldn't.
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Every other omni that's been in the Recognition Guides has been put back into production- the Thor, Puma, and Loki. I don't see any reason why the Mad Cat, Masakari, or Daishi wouldn't.
Don't recall about the Puma but the Thor and Loki were already in production.
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They were both noted as having had their production stopped in favor of the Thor II and Loki II. The Puma might have always been in production in the Homeworlds but I don't ever recall hearing that it was being built in the Inner Sphere prior to the Recognition Guide being released.
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They were both noted as having had their production stopped in favor of the Thor II and Loki II.
Presumably by one faction only. The Clan Hell's Horses builds the Summoner and Hel (Loki II), while the Jade Falcons produce the Hellbringer and the Grand Summoner.
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Every other omni that's been in the Recognition Guides has been put back into production- the Thor, Puma, and Loki. I don't see any reason why the Mad Cat, Masakari, or Daishi wouldn't.
The issue at play for the Warhawk is that the opening fluff for TRO:Clan Invasion unambiguously states that the 'Mech has "not been a presence on the battlefields of the Inner Sphere since the 3070s".
But then again, the MUL currently contradicts that, showing the 'Mech as being present in the Toumans of five separate Clans (sorry, Horses). And in any case, if that throwaway line from TRO:CI needs to be thrown away to give players a better sense of being "allowed" to field the design in the Dark Age, I'd say go for it.
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The TROs are written from in-universe perspectives that are often deliberately inaccurate.
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Deliberately inaccurate insofar as they portray the perspective of the IU author
The MUL has no such restrictions so go with that - though whether something remains in sufficient numbers to be put on a faction list or is actively manufactured is another question
There are examples like the whitworth 2 where all extant examples are factory refits from a mech that only existed in the hundreds as of 3039. Or the striker that’s basically extinct until later - so the bar is kind of low
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The contradiction in the BTU isn't new, Timber Wolf has always been a Wolf mech that was spars outside of Clan Wolf but it's probably the most popular mech in Clans because it's popular with fans and thus, writers. I'm so use to providing my own head cannon or mental arithmetic to fill the gaps, it's only a problem when 1.) someone on the forum demand canon reflect everything or 2.) my own head canon clashes with someone else's (there can be only one)
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I'm pretty sure the Warhawk was in the fiction for at least one dark age story. But if the Goliath Scorpions were able to take their factory with them when they departed the Clan homeworlds, then we may be seeing much more of them on Friday. >:D
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The Warhawk being mostly dead to the Inner Sphere and then showing up in large numbers in the Deep Periphery would be delightful.
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I'm pretty sure the Warhawk was in the fiction for at least one dark age story. But if the Goliath Scorpions were able to take their factory with them when they departed the Clan homeworlds, then we may be seeing much more of them on Friday. >:D
Lol, that was what I was thinking but I was not wanting to throw it out yet. It also makes the Foxes selling it to the IS interesting.
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Talk about the Warhawk makes me wonder how the inevitable T config looks. The Warhawk is a rare case where the new art (edit, err miniature render, unless that has been corrected) doesn't actually depict the Prime correctly, having moved the LRM launcher.
Probably too much to hope that the Warhawk would be covered in Vol 5 or 6?
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I hold out vain hope for quad iHLLs and a Radical Heat Sink or a shitload of coolant pods.
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I hold out vain hope for quad iHLLs and a Radical Heat Sink or a shitload of coolant pods.
Sounds a bit like the Lament 4RC.
That said, i'd be OK with that.
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(https://24.media.tumblr.com/0579f847e79ffb1da38c4fb74e354ac6/tumblr_n0p93crFBk1s8lowro4_250.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/I4wGMXoi2kMDe/giphy.gif)
It is seldom I come across a true connoisseur of the finer things.
Realistically speaking, how much battlefield salvage would be needed to keep a 'mech running decently over the span of decades?
OmniMechs being OmniMechs, I could imagine motivated Techs scavenging parts from more common Omnis to keep rarer ones running.
We know that the Hellbringer and Summoner are built from similar templates, so it shouldn't be too hard to grab the leg from one to fix another?
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I hold out vain hope for quad iHLLs and a Radical Heat Sink or a shitload of coolant pods.
nah, why blow up the weapons- regular HLLs, RHS and a Supercharger for giggles . . . maybe coolant pods too, have to check that when I get home with HMP. Maybe some B-pods to round it out.
The RHS appearing in the Scorpion Empire would be interesting. But I could see such a mech being a terror among the Hanseatic 3025 builds.
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four RISC hyper lasers
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Talk about the Warhawk makes me wonder how the inevitable T config looks. The Warhawk is a rare case where the new art (edit, err miniature render, unless that has been corrected) doesn't actually depict the Prime correctly, having moved the LRM launcher.
Probably too much to hope that the Warhawk would be covered in Vol 5 or 6?
quad ERLPLs tied to a TC and a streak LRM launcher.
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quad ERLPLs tied to a TC and a streak LRM launcher.
Not actually possible. 6+6+6+6+5(10 tubes)+1+5=35, where the Warhawk has 32.5 tons of podspace. Without the TarComp, sure, but all Warhawk configs have that and i doubt they're gonna ditch it. Sure hope they're not. Using standard LRM launcher would work, of course, but unfortunately the ERLPLs are such lackluster weapons the Prime is just plain better.
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Not actually possible. 6+6+6+6+5(10 tubes)+1+5=35, where the Warhawk has 32.5 tons of podspace. Without the TarComp, sure, but all Warhawk configs have that and i doubt they're gonna ditch it. Sure hope they're not. Using standard LRM launcher would work, of course, but unfortunately the ERLPLs are such lackluster weapons the Prime is just plain better.
You can get 4 HLL, TC, Streak LRM10, RHS, and Supercharger . . . just for giggles. Now I want to see that take on what I expect a Hansa force mix would be . . .
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WarHawk T: 4x PAC/8 & 1x RL-10. :D
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That's not... wrong. Points for sheer weirdness, and probably the most inefficient use of an Omni chassis i can think of.
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WarHawk T: 4x PAC/8 & 1x RL-10. :D
Pretty sure there is weight left over though even if you leave the DHS- heck, I had to go Streak10 to use all the tonnage left.
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Pretty sure there is weight left over though even if you leave the DHS- heck, I had to go Streak10 to use all the tonnage left.
Ammo.... Plenty....
Edit: Another idea is an "EC" config....
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Those PPC barrels have five tiny holes at the end, so...
Ten sprayers in each arm, a Streak iOS LRM-10 on the shoulder, jump jets, and any remaining mass in fluid storage. Masoakari! :D
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It's what you need to put out the candles on Victor Davion's birthday cake.
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That's not... wrong. Points for sheer weirdness, and probably the most inefficient use of an Omni chassis i can think of.
Challenge accepted!
Masakari T: Four medium rifles (2 per arm), each arm gets 2 tons rifle ammo. Four Rocket Launcher 15 tubes and a RL-10. 4.5 ton targeting computer to make those rifle shots count! ;)
Those PPC barrels have five tiny holes at the end, so...
Ten sprayers in each arm, a Streak iOS LRM-10 on the shoulder, jump jets, and any remaining mass in fluid storage. Masoakari! :D
I see what you did there, and I approve the ultimate crowd control configuration.
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Challenge accepted!
Masakari T: Four medium rifles (2 per arm), each arm gets 2 tons rifle ammo. Four Rocket Launcher 15 tubes and a RL-10. 4.5 ton targeting computer to make those rifle shots count! ;)
Only has 4 missile ports.
Edit- 10! Mean 10 ports! rather than 4 launchers!
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Just squish them in there!
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Only has 4 missile ports.
Edit- 10! Mean 10 ports! rather than 4 launchers!
The AS7-D Atlas had a special FarFire launcher that spat four groups of five missiles, so it's not unprecedented to have fluff and stats that don't exactly match the art or mini. Pretty sure there are others, but that one has always stood out, especially with every variant after using the AS7-K artwork as a base. Ironically, that one is also completely off, because it has what looks like LRM-10s in each torso but is described as only having a Shigunga-brand launcher.
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And in the Crusade's opening fiction, the Scorpion Khan pilots a Warhawk Prime. But it is also rare on the RATs- which are set up differently for the Clans.
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They updated the MUL today with Rec Guide 1. I notice both new Griffin variants are on the IS General List! I thought the GRF-6S2 was the pinnacle of Griffin-greatness with the Light Engine and Clan-spec launcher. But the Griffin-C is widely available with yummy clan spec weapons to offset that Inner Sphere XL Engine.
Decisions, Decisions!
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To the monster that designed the Hierofalcon A:
Thank you. It made my day.
;D ;D
It is an awesome flanker and a huge threat to all the enemies. The bubble of doom it can create is lovely.
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They updated the MUL today with Rec Guide 1. I notice both new Griffin variants are on the IS General List! I thought the GRF-6S2 was the pinnacle of Griffin-greatness with the Light Engine and Clan-spec launcher. But the Griffin-C is widely available with yummy clan spec weapons to offset that Inner Sphere XL Engine.
Decisions, Decisions!
KUDOS and HUZZAH for the MUL Team. Your work is greatly appreciated.
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To the monster that designed the Hierofalcon A:
Thank you. It made my day.
;D ;D
It is an awesome flanker and a huge threat to all the enemies. The bubble of doom it can create is lovely.
I'm seriously ambivalent on the thing. It's the kind of fustrating that can turn people off the game, like the black python in the 90s.
0000
The dominator and thresher cost too much for matched play, but as PC rides for campaigns and role-playing I suspect they'd be fun.
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To the monster that designed the Hierofalcon A:
Thank you. It made my day.
;D ;D
It is an awesome flanker and a huge threat to all the enemies. The bubble of doom it can create is lovely.
Maybe it's b/c I spent the early part of this week working on a Mech of the Week for the Lobo, but I can't help but see some of the Hierofalcon variants as modern versions of Lobos or the Arctic Wolf.
The D is a revised Lobo, trading the long range puch for a supercharger to get close sooner. The A is a Lobo 2 that trades the Plasma Cannons for the IJJs. The C is a Lobo 3 that swaps the short-ranged crit seekers for long range crit seeking RAC/2. The B is a refined Arctic Wolf.
I'm not saying this was intentional, but the similarities stuck out to me. Of course there's probably only so many weapons combinations possible before such similarities pop up. In-universe maybe the Falcons saw how effective those 'Mechs were against them and decided to make their own tweaks to improve it.
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Marauder sneak peak video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR9_Co7mRqI&t=3s
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oh damn the 11D is nasty
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Video made a mistake or didn't give full details as my recreation of the 11D ended up 2 tons underweight. Unless structure was meant to be endo-composite, not "just composite", as in the previous Davion MAD-9D.
Anyway, nice sneak peek, i suppose. Not too impressed by either Marauder though. The 11D does correct the 9D's lack of CASE II but otherwise i think i prefer the 9D. The latter is more affordable to boot, with some 300BV difference.
Then again, i'm not much of a Marauder guy, always been more into Warhammers, though the Marauder IIC gets points for looks. Basically all Marauders miss my preferences by a hair.
I hope the Marauder IIC is covered in RG6 as well. The render of the new Marauder IIC was nice, hope the line art is as well.
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Video made a mistake or didn't give full details as my recreation of the 11D ended up 2 tons underweight. Unless structure was meant to be endo-composite, not "just composite", as in the previous Davion MAD-9D.
Anyway, nice sneak peek, i suppose. Not too impressed by either Marauder though. The 11D does correct the 9D's lack of CASE II but otherwise i think i prefer the 9D. The latter is more affordable to boot, with some 300BV difference.
Then again, i'm not much of a Marauder guy, always been more into Warhammers, though the Marauder IIC gets points for looks. Basically all Marauders miss my preferences by a hair.
I hope the Marauder IIC is covered in RG6 as well. The render of the new Marauder IIC was nice, hope the line art is as well.
I used Endo-Composite.
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He says endo-composite in the introduction, somewhere 2:00 and 2:10.
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He says endo-composite in the introduction, somewhere 2:00 and 2:10.
Missed that, because he started talking about composite structure weakness and the 'Mech data sheet showed "composite".
TBH endo-composite is poorly named, easy to mix with composite. "Heavy-endo" or "light-endo" (err, which is it?) could've been a better name, similar to ferro-fibrous variants.
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Maybe it's b/c I spent the early part of this week working on a Mech of the Week for the Lobo, but I can't help but see some of the Hierofalcon variants as modern versions of Lobos or the Arctic Wolf.
The D is a revised Lobo, trading the long range puch for a supercharger to get close sooner. The A is a Lobo 2 that trades the Plasma Cannons for the IJJs. The C is a Lobo 3 that swaps the short-ranged crit seekers for long range crit seeking RAC/2. The B is a refined Arctic Wolf.
I'm not saying this was intentional, but the similarities stuck out to me. Of course there's probably only so many weapons combinations possible before such similarities pop up. In-universe maybe the Falcons saw how effective those 'Mechs were against them and decided to make their own tweaks to improve it.
The Lobo returns! Quite cool i liked the original
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Seems that all original first gen OmniMechs have gotten a second chance in the Inner Sphere.
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Missed that, because he started talking about composite structure weakness and the 'Mech data sheet showed "composite".
Yeah, he contradicts himself several times in that video.
TBH endo-composite is poorly named, easy to mix with composite. "Heavy-endo" or "light-endo" (err, which is it?) could've been a better name, similar to ferro-fibrous variants.
Agreed.
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For those who don't video, can you guys explain what on Earth you're talking about?
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It shows two marauder variants from the upcoming recguide the 11D has silver bullet, two cERPPC and two med xpulse. The structure was incorrectly listed as composite rather than endo-composite
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For those who don't video, can you guys explain what on Earth you're talking about?
here, no video:
http://dfawargaming.com/battlytics.php
But no explanation either. Just data. Watch the video(s) when you have time. They’re cool.
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Interesting site, though I have no idea what the vast majority of those graphs are saying.
The MAD-5D has above average survivability and is rarely destroyed by ammo explosions.
Okay, they definitely know what they're talking about. :thumbsup:
...Watch the video...
(https://media.tenor.com/images/6908187d60213f0536ea2ddbb7fb41c2/tenor.gif)
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here, no video:
http://dfawargaming.com/battlytics.php
But no explanation either. Just data. Watch the video(s) when you have time. They’re cool.
I have a hard time getting through this video preview. As in, I have yet to finish watching it due to the apparent confusion between “composite” internal structure and “endo-composite” internal structure.
Ruger
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I only watched the first few minutes of it.
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When I saw how long it was, I didn't even attempt it.
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When I saw how long it was, I didn't even attempt it.
After getting the mech stats, the rest of the video wasn't necessary to watch
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The video didn’t really land for me but that website warms the cockles of my data-vis-loving heart. Well done.
...and I’m looking forward to the -11D something fierce now.
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So we've had a tasty Marauder sneak peak that melted minds and kindled the fires of our heart. But that is for release in Volume 6, which isn't until the last Friday in August.
What about Volume 5, featuring the Timber Wolf, out this Friday August 14. Any sneak peaks at an Omni loadout or perhaps which Reseen mech will grace its pages? Hmmm? :drool:
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22 classic IS unseen
22 RecGuide Volumes
coincidence? it's not
i'll guess uh... scorpion
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22 unseen?
14 originals, Valkyrie (15), Scorpion (16), Goliath (17), Longbow (18)... what else?
EDIT Right, forgot Ost-series, and Marauder II. Is that all?
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there's also the comstar trio and clan spate from 3055
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The Catapult either has to go in with the Timber Wolf release or the Marauder, for jokes. I would expect one of the lesser Classics- like maybe a Ost. But what other new art would fit . . . Kit Fox for some Falcon attention? Commando? Wolfhound with new art?
I think the Marauder book is the interesting one-
Marauder
Marauder II
Marauder IIC
Warhawk
Nightstar
Cataphract
what light & medium would go with that set of chicken walkers w/ gun pods? Hussar & Cicada?
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22 unseen?
14 originals, Valkyrie (15), Scorpion (16), Goliath (17), Longbow (18)... what else?
EDIT Right, forgot Ost-series, and Marauder II. Is that all?
Looks right to me.
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The Catapult either has to go in with the Timber Wolf release or the Marauder, for jokes. I would expect one of the lesser Classics- like maybe a Ost. But what other new art would fit . . . Kit Fox for some Falcon attention? Commando? Wolfhound with new art?
I think the Marauder book is the interesting one-
Marauder
Marauder II
Marauder IIC
Warhawk
Nightstar
Cataphract
what light & medium would go with that set of chicken walkers w/ gun pods? Hussar & Cicada?
Locust and Cicada would be a good fit (or Locust IIC)
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I'd be curious to see a Dark Age tech Ostsol or Ostroc--statistically we have a lot of heavy mechs left:
18 total 'mechs remaining.
Lights 3 (Stinger, Locust, Valkyrie
Mediums 4 (Phoenix Hawk, Scorpion, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine)
Heavies 8 (Ostroc, Ostsol, Rifleman, Crusader, Thunderbolt, Archer, Warhammer, Marauder (Vol 6)
Assaults: 3 (Goliath, Longbow, Marauder II)
We haven't had a hint of the Reseen art for the Ostroc, Ostsol, Scorpion, or Goliath. So I think those may come later in the cycle.
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I'd be curious to see a Dark Age tech Ostsol or Ostroc--statistically we have a lot of heavy mechs left:
18 total 'mechs remaining.
Lights 3 (Stinger, Locust, Valkyrie
Mediums 4 (Phoenix Hawk, Scorpion, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine)
Heavies 8 (Ostroc, Ostsol, Rifleman, Crusader, Thunderbolt, Archer, Warhammer, Marauder (Vol 6)
Assaults: 3 (Goliath, Longbow, Marauder II)
We haven't had a hint of the Reseen art for the Ostroc, Ostsol, Scorpion, or Goliath. So I think those may come later in the cycle.
The Ostsol has been seen on Anthony Scroggins' Patreon page. I don't know if its ok to show it or not.
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Ray teased the Scorpion's leg a month or so ago.
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There’s an ostsol on the cover of ghost hour. It’s hard to see but you get an inkling
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The Ostsol has been seen on Anthony Scroggins' Patreon page. I don't know if its OK to show it or not.
Unless posted else where or specifically stated by Anthony then no it is Pateron only.
That being said he has said that all of the Ost series and the Quads are being worked on
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We already got the Goliath with the debut of the Goliath C . . . not sure we are going to get it again.
Besides all the Classics, remember all the new KS art that is being incorporated. It is why I suggested the Cicada and Hussar- I think the Hussar has already rolled out in the KS previews? or maybe I am mis-remembering the ComStar boxes.
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Seems a bit early to say no to anything. There’s plenty of room for the KS stuff. So much that they’ll run out of material before they run out of space
22 seems like too exact a number to be a coincidence, especially with the quads and osts expected to be getting art.
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We already got the Goliath with the debut of the Goliath C . . . not sure we are going to get it again.
the -C is developed from the Phoenix chassis.
So…
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We already got the Goliath with the debut of the Goliath C . . . not sure we are going to get it again.
I think it's been specifically said that we will get a classic Goliath at some point, though I have been wrong before.
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So…
HMMMMMM 🤔🤔🤔
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Divided We Fall showed a Timber Wolf T in action. It had 3 torso mounted ER Small Lasers and 2 LRM launchers, presumably LRM20s. The main mystery until Friday is what it has for arm weapons and if it has any special toys for its LRMs or any special equipment.
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Hi, product dev here, randomly commenting on some messages...
The griffen did the best- it's like the 3025 griffen but PERFECT: for just skirmishing with a couple of hatamotos, it did great, just popping up and down a ridge line.
This early comment hits so close to the mark. At a stage where the project has not yet been fully fleshed out, a mild upgrade was desired, one that stayed simple and new player-friendly - and, yes, WYSIWYG - but more importantly, that simply felt like the original.
Before long were just going to end up with clan names like the Falcon Puncher and WolfHawkBird
More like WolverHoundWave <-- (actual working title), which I guess is a spoiler for the upcoming vol5.
It gets one “gun” port so it can’t have both tag and the erll, no. And it seems not very much is getting slapped on these that isn’t in the BMM so remote sensors are out.
There is so much spot in in this short comment, I thought I'd bring it up again. Of the two "rules" that are mentioned, one is cast in iron. The other has a few exceptions, but is also largely true.
I'm also amused by the name-drop of the Hedgehog. Here's hoping that we one day get a record sheet
...seconded!
Was there compromise with the Sojourner? I was surprised to see that it had a inferior standard Heavy Large Lasers verses the Improved version. Resources needy?
Deliberate dev decision, it was submitted with an iHLL. This decision stemmed from the dual factor of aesthetics (lacking CASE II when the other explode-y sections have it) and the realization that there would nnever be a more appropriate place for the good old standard HLL in this project.
PACs have been able to use alternate ammo since they first appeared, but the Sojourner is the first design I've seen that looks like it was designed to use alternate ammo types rather than using the PAC for cheap firepower.
Tech progression has opened up the options for PACs, which were quite limited upon debut. We have not seen the end of them; whereas earlier projects slightly favored the 4-class, the 8-class is the most common here - and with it the expectation of liberal use of armor-piercing ammo.
IMO it looks like a cross between a Ice Ferret and a Pouncer- the head definitely marks it as Pouncer.
...or elements of Puma, Fenris, Linebacker? And an, uhm, Uziel's head? <Points to comms + T&T systems>
All the other weapons are clan, why not the gauss?
Tech creep is a tricky thing nicely nestled at the halfway mark between established lore and fiat.
Anything ClanTech will have a hook or will be explicitly pointed out. And if it all starts to become confusing, all the better, as we are overdue for a cross-tech base mix. Be it Clans using captured production lines, IS factories finally catching up, or the Sea Foxes selling goodies indiscriminately, the old dividing line is becoming ever more meaningless.
Of course, there will be quite a few units in the spread of PDFs that deliberately shy away from the divide.
And is the primary weapon an ER small laser of DOOM! ??
Oh man, that's a missed chance, if there ever was one... xp
>:( Don't get me started on a WYSIWYG Gargoyle.
Hey! Just because there were reasons we had to make the T a PAC/8-carrier doesn't mean you didn't get to (over-)compensate with other configs! :fine_print:
The Puma illustration in the rulebook from the Solaris 7 map pack is now a canon configuration!
Okay. I was blown away that this was one of the earliest comments for vol 3. Good for you! :bow:
Also, I'm surprised it doesn't use laser heat sinks like the rest of the totem 'Mechs.
Ah. BMM may have had something to do with it. But more importantly: the Hierofalcon is NOT a totem 'Mech. It's not aimed at the same crowd as the Totems.
That's it for the first fifteen pages. Should I continue?
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I hope there will be exceptions to "mostly BMM tech". Because i'd like to see some reactive armor and... well, i'm pretty sure BMM omitted one or two techs i like in addition to reactive armor.
EDIT Ah, yes, various Dark Age armors, even though they're not terribly great they're still interesting, mix things up and keep them fresh, and occasionally they are even quite useful. Also Radical Heat Sink.
EDIT2 And of course the laser heat sinks already mentioned.
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How about the Goliath's A-Pods and some variants with command consoles...? O:-)
We tried to be seriously restrictive and only budged when there were binding reasons.
Good news, though, quad turrets made the cut, it won't stop at the Phoenix Goliath.
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...or elements of Puma, Fenris, Linebacker? And an, uhm, Uziel's head? <Points to comms + T&T systems>
I'm not sure i see most of those influences but the Uziel's head? Now that you mention it, yeah, very noticeable. Funny.
The right arm looks a lot like the Summoner's cannon arm, only mirrored.
Hey! Just because there were reasons we had to make the T a PAC/8-carrier doesn't mean you didn't get to (over-)compensate with other configs! :fine_print:
Wait, are you saying the Gargoyle actually has PAC/8s as its main guns? If so, cool, can't wait to see it.
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How about the Goliath's A-Pods and some variants with command consoles...? O:-)
We tried to be seriously restrictive and only budged when there were binding reasons.
Good news, though, quad turrets made the cut, it won't stop at the Phoenix Goliath.
Actually, what I'd like to see is Dual Cockpit Mechs, such as those from the old MechWarrior Companion. It would seem an easy way to combat superior Clan skills and leverage the IS greater population base. The rare individuals who could use a neurohelmet become pilots, the many who can't become gunners.
Not a chance it'll happen but always hopeful.
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More like WolverHoundWave <-- (actual working title)
How's the trademark application working on that one?
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More like WolverHoundWave <-- (actual working title), which I guess is a spoiler for the upcoming vol5.
Kind of disappointed you didn't include "thunder" and "hawk" in the name. ;) I guess I'll have to wait for volume 6 to see the ThunderWolverHoundHawkWave.
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Hi, product dev here, randomly commenting on some messages...
That's it for the first fifteen pages. Should I continue?
Yes please.
Oh man, that's a missed chance, if there ever was one... xp
I'm sure we can find a way to work something out if not there maybe somewhere else. >:D
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I'm curious if the LAMs will somehow end up in this book since alot of the the other Classic unseens are getting a revamped. I know their not terrible popular, but i'd like look at the bloody things without getting stares. xp
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So . . . we get the Wolverine in the Timber Wolf edition? A Kell Hound Wolverine?
Wrangler- are LAM rules in BMM?
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they are not.
LAMs appearing in the post-jihad universe is that 100:1 bet in a horse race
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they are not.
Which is what I thought . . . and an answer for about seeing them in RecGuides.
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they are not.
LAMs appearing in the post-jihad universe is that 100:1 bet in a horse race
Probably not, but I'd like to know why the Nova Cats appear to loathe the technology with a passion when other, supposedly more conservative clans such as the Jags or Falcons, seem OK with them.
OK...they don't appear to use them, but that appears to be due to the opinion that LAMs are obsolete and so far, only the Cats demonstrate a degree of hatred for the tech. That such an attitude appears restricted to the Cats might also confirm initial observations that the Clans have LAMs but they are rare.
If the Jags had won the Trial for Irece, would we have seen Jaguar LAMs?
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Probably not, but I'd like to know why the Nova Cats appear to loathe the technology with a passion when other, supposedly more conservative clans such as the Jags or Falcons, seem OK with them.
OK...they don't appear to use them, but that appears to be due to the opinion that LAMs are obsolete and so far, only the Cats demonstrate a degree of hatred for the tech. That such an attitude appears restricted to the Cats might also confirm initial observations that the Clans have LAMs but they are rare.
If the Jags had won the Trial for Irece, would we have seen Jaguar LAMs?
OOC . . . whoever took that factory had to hate LAMs as part of the purge. IC . . . well, Op Klondike would have been a good place to create a reason why . . . not sure you are going to get a solid answer. Heck, sounds like a good Shrapnel story to me.
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OOC . . . whoever took that factory had to hate LAMs as part of the purge.
Of course, but the Nova Cats got the planet, do they got lumbered with the "Hate LAMs (5)" quirk.
IC . . . well, Op Klondike would have been a good place to create a reason why . . . not sure you are going to get a solid answer. Heck, sounds like a good Shrapnel story to me.
I know.
It'd be one thing if all/most of the Clans shared the Cats viewpoint. But they don't. Most/all other Clans seem OK, seeing them as obsolete or inefficient rather than a source of loathing. But what happened that the Cats hate them so much?
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Shrapnel #1 has a LAM pilot showing off AirMech mode to draw fire from Jaguars specifically. “He didn’t know why, but god, they hated his ‘Mech.”
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Shrapnel #1 has a LAM pilot showing off AirMech mode to draw fire from Jaguars specifically. “He didn’t know why, but god, they hated his ‘Mech.”
Everyone who gets shot at thinks they are hated . . .
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More like WolverHoundWave <-- (actual working title), which I guess is a spoiler for the upcoming vol5.
Oooh! So Wolverine might be the IS Reseen we can expect in Volume 5. Sweet!
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Everyone who gets shot at thinks they are hated . . .
I was on a tablet at the time so I didn't copy in a longer excerpt, but...
The intent was for the enemy to focus on them and ignore the flankers, but these Jags had paid attention to their tactical briefings, and kept their fire on the fast 'Mechs.
"They ain't going for it, Cap'n," Grange drawled as he threw twenty Clan LRMs back at their manufacturers.
"Keep moving. I'll draw their fire." Jason converted to AirMech mode, and every Jaguar turned on him. He didn't know why, but god, they hated his 'Mech.
Yes, the unreliable narrator is a thing, especially in the heat of combat, but in this case the Jags demonstrate fire discipline, confirmed by another observer, and give it up as soon as Jason hits the conversion switch.
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Tech creep is a tricky thing nicely nestled at the halfway mark between established lore and fiat.
Anything ClanTech will have a hook or will be explicitly pointed out. And if it all starts to become confusing, all the better, as we are overdue for a cross-tech base mix. Be it Clans using captured production lines, IS factories finally catching up, or the Sea Foxes selling goodies indiscriminately, the old dividing line is becoming ever more meaningless.
I was happy to read this. One could infer this was the plan from the writeups we've seen already, but it's nice to see stated plainly. I agree that we've been playing too long with two separate tech bases and I think this is the best way forward.
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I was on a tablet at the time so I didn't copy in a longer excerpt, but...
Yes, the unreliable narrator is a thing, especially in the heat of combat, but in this case the Jags demonstrate fire discipline, confirmed by another observer, and give it up as soon as Jason hits the conversion switch.
Which shows only that they realise what a well piloted LAM can do. Their instructions were apparently to take down the flankers and lights, and that pretty much covers the LAM as well. Not to mention they probably knew who he was.
Either way, there is little to nothing to suggest the Jags...as a Clan...share the same hatred of LAMs the Cats demonstrated.
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In order to come to that conclusion requires outright deliberately ignoring canon text, so I think we can call that particular point concluded and move on to something else.
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Ok, back on topic/speculation about Friday's Volume 5.
Provided if it is indeed a Wolverine:
Will there be a clan model that has some sick HAG-20 as the ballistic main weapon?
Will the Inner Sphere model be the modern day variant of the 3025 superstar the WVR-6M?
Want to know more?
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Will the Inner Sphere model be the modern day variant of the 3025 superstar the WVR-6M?
Did you miss the -7M? -9M?
I would not mind a faster one with something like a PAC/8.
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Did you miss the -7M? -9M?
I would not mind a faster one with something like a PAC/8.
I take your meaning, but if an Inner Sphere ER Large Laser or two is your idea of modern day in 3151, I'm going to be disappointed!
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Well, the -7M is the upgrade, in fluff and function, of the -6R . . . the Wolverine's profile for me screams Snubbie but I think a lot of strikers could do with that . . . so I am not sure what you would take as a 'modern' weapon that would function on the spirit of the 6R & 6M.
I would not mind seeing a new Wolverine going 6/9/5 with a LFE . . . give it a Plasma Rifle for the 10 point whack/gun feel . . . but then what?
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bombast lasers for everyone
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Lol, I was thinking about summoning Daryk by suggesting like the -4X/-9M the double ERLL in a arm was to sport a Blazer before the ERLL hit full production . . . so a -7X that has prototype DHS, maybe MLs instead of MPLs, not sure about MASC, depends on when.
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Oooh! So Wolverine might be the IS Reseen we can expect in Volume 5. Sweet!
We'll see what we can conjure up for you.
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We'll see what we can conjure up for you.
I C wut you did thar!
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We'll see what we can conjure up for you.
Bravo :thumbsup:
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I hope for something along the lines of the Sutur and the 9K. I'm a glutton for light 'mech guttin'. Granted, there could be a variant with dual retractable blades. Please don't do that to us. Please.
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While I am looking forward to Vol. 5, I'm most anxiously waiting for the Marauder madness that will be Vol. 6. :D
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While I am looking forward to Vol. 5, I'm most anxiously waiting for the Marauder madness that will be Vol. 6. :D
Well, yeah!!
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While I am looking forward to Vol. 5, I'm most anxiously waiting for the Marauder madness that will be Vol. 6. :D
I don’t think a single volume can contain all the MAD-NESS.
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Of course not. We have to get the Marauder II and Marauder IIC as well.
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Of course not. We have to get the Marauder II and Marauder IIC as well.
Not sure what to add to the IIC ... I'd drop some of the lasers to ER PPC Alpha strike all day long while running. Munchy but directly related to my MW2 time (would always chain fire to help when I needed to lead my shots, and it was cool looking! -- loved the idea of a near constant barrage of lightning balls that reached out almost a whole map. One mission required attacking a training station, Mercs or GBL?, and charging in was always risky of not finishing the mission ... but ppc chain fire would take down everyone as they ran straight towards you and into more ppcs)
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Not sure what to add to the IIC ...
did you not see my mandate on bombast lasers
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did you not see my mandate on bombast lasers
I want Blazers instead!
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Not sure what to add to the IIC ...
I want a Osteon among the IS Clans . . . Ferro-Lam armor, reinforced structure . . . then laugh as you stomp forward to crush the Republic.
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Not sure what to add to the IIC ... I'd drop some of the lasers to ER PPC Alpha strike all day long while running. Munchy but directly related to my MW2 time (would always chain fire to help when I needed to lead my shots, and it was cool looking! -- loved the idea of a near constant barrage of lightning balls that reached out almost a whole map. One mission required attacking a training station, Mercs or GBL?, and charging in was always risky of not finishing the mission ... but ppc chain fire would take down everyone as they ran straight towards you and into more ppcs)
Remember that it's going to have to match the art.
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I want a Osteon among the IS Clans . . . Ferro-Lam armor, reinforced structure . . . then laugh as you stomp forward to crush the Republic.
Not in the Recognition Guides.
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Remember that it's going to have to match the art.
I'll color in all the new laser ports with black sharpie. Would think/hope the basic MAD design would be easy to view as 3 ER PPCs.
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Not in the Recognition Guides.
No, I meant a Marauder IIC version built like the Osteon . . . the Ferro-Lam Armor, Reinforced Structure . . . yeah, it will need 3 big guns (LA/RA/torso), 2 med rider weapons for each armo, and 4 small guns spread across the torso. I mean you can make one that stays 4/6 and marches some pain across the map . . . 2 ERLL, ERPPC, 2 ERMPL, 4 Micro ERL . . .
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Okay, that would legit be scary.
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Only has 4 missile ports.
Edit- 10! Mean 10 ports! rather than 4 launchers!
Bah! I'm not a fan of WYSIWYG. I'm a fan of WYGIWYG (What You Get Is What You Get) so that's irrelevant to me.
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Remember that it's going to have to match the art.
I was thinking about this. Would it work to have weapons in slots that are close? Take the Wolverine and it’s head mounted weapon. What if we called that a CT weapon. Is that still WYSIWYG? I’d be fine with it.
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I was thinking about this. Would it work to have weapons in slots that are close? Take the Wolverine and it’s head mounted weapon. What if we called that a CT weapon. Is that still WYSIWYG? I’d be fine with it.
There is some leeway there evidently. The new Commando variant has MML-3s in side torsos, rather than in the center torso.
EDIT I'd use small cockpit for the Wolverine though, if i needed more space for the weapon that represents the chin laser. Large laser there would be fun.
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Bah! I'm not a fan of WYSIWYG. I'm a fan of WYGIWYG (What You Get Is What You Get) so that's irrelevant to me.
As someone who uses random force generation frequently I play YGWYGYDGU (you get what you get and you don't get upset) ;)
Cheers,
LCC
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big fan of WYSICE (what you see is close enough)
though i do embrace the RecGuide effort as it's an interesting design paradigm rather than a gameplay framework
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While I am looking forward to Vol. 5, I'm most anxiously waiting for the Marauder madness that will be Vol. 6. :D
Do you think we will finally get Cat Wilson's Clan tech Marauder in Vol. 6?
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There is some leeway there evidently. The new Commando variant has MML-3s in side torsos, rather than in the center torso.
EDIT I'd use small cockpit for the Wolverine though, if i needed more space for the weapon that represents the chin laser. Large laser there would be fun.
If its Davion built you do not need a small cockpit . . . give it a Clan spec ERLL which would mimic the Stooping Hawk C and . . . Blood Kite, I think.
wolfspider . . . its not all Clan tech, just IIRC ERPPC and a few other bits the Angels collected up. The Caeser (really not sure why with its thin skin) got all the goodies.
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big fan of WYSICE (what you see is close enough)
though i do embrace the RecGuide effort as it's an interesting design paradigm rather than a gameplay framework
+1, x1.5 for (what you see is close enough)
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If its Davion built you do not need a small cockpit . . . give it a Clan spec ERLL which would mimic the Stooping Hawk C and . . . Blood Kite, I think.
wolfspider . . . its not all Clan tech, just IIRC ERPPC and a few other bits the Angels collected up. The Caeser (really not sure why with its thin skin) got all the goodies.
Archangel ended up getting the bulk of the Clantech upgrades because it was down due to missing a replacement engine anyway so they had a lot more time to monkey with it and get that extra Clantech integrated with its systems. And also, it was Marcus's personal mech so of course he'd claim the best toys for himself.
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wolfspider . . . its not all Clan tech, just IIRC ERPPC and a few other bits the Angels collected up. The Caeser (really not sure why with its thin skin) got all the goodies.
Cat Wilson is with the Kell Hounds.
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Archangel ended up getting the bulk of the Clantech upgrades because it was down due to missing a replacement engine anyway so they had a lot more time to monkey with it and get that extra Clantech integrated with its systems. And also, it was Marcus's personal mech so of course he'd claim the best toys for himself.
I understand and agree . . . but he was riding a Warhammer before that had some Clan put on I thought.
Oh yeah, Faber or Fabre is the guy in the Angels. Was it really all that much Clan gear mounted on it though? Any more than a Marauder C?
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Oh yeah, Faber or Fabre is the guy in the Angels. Was it really all that much Clan gear mounted on it though? Any more than a Marauder C?
Well I still would love to see a sheet and get AS stats as well.
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't there another Recognition guide out this Friday?
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't there another Recognition guide out this Friday?
You are correct
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Can we move Friday up to today? Need new stuff.
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I understand and agree . . . but he was riding a Warhammer before that had some Clan put on I thought.
Just about all of the Angels' mechs had a little Clantech at that point. The Warhammer was his backup mech that he was using until the Caesar could be returned to service.
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No, I meant a Marauder IIC version built like the Osteon . . . the Ferro-Lam Armor, Reinforced Structure . . . yeah, it will need 3 big guns (LA/RA/torso), 2 med rider weapons for each armo, and 4 small guns spread across the torso. I mean you can make one that stays 4/6 and marches some pain across the map . . . 2 ERLL, ERPPC, 2 ERMPL, 4 Micro ERL . . .
Thank you for the idea. I just built that in MML. I'll post my version in the design forum.
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More like WolverHoundWave <-- (actual working title), which I guess is a spoiler for the upcoming vol5.
I must clearly be misunderstanding something, because this makes it sound like the 'Mech in question will *not* be keeping that name.
And I don't think I've heard a better name than WolverHoundWave before.
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I must clearly be misunderstanding something, because this makes it sound like the 'Mech in question will *not* be keeping that name.
And I don't think I've heard a better name than WolverHoundWave before.
I read that as the mech in question being a fusion of, or having elements of the ... Not-Named Mech, you know, the Inner Sphere Conjurer, the... probably Wolfhound? Some mech with Hound in its name, and the Shockwave.
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Do you think we will finally get Cat Wilson's Clan tech Marauder in Vol. 6?
Along those same lines, has the Black Marauder ever been given full tech stats? That would be kind of neat addition, even if it is a little creepy. >:D
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The Black Marauder has never been confirmed to exist as anything more than an urban legend.
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The Black Marauder has never been confirmed to exist as anything more than an urban legend.
True, but it is also canon.
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A canon urban legend.
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The Black Marauder resembles a MAD-3R Marauder with flat black paint, although its shape supposedly looks somehow "wrong" and its "proportions not quite right", too sleek yet of terribly imposing bulk and with too-smooth angles. It has no serial number and no other factory markings whatsoever.
With the Marauder headlining Rec Guide 6 which is coming out two weeks from Friday, maybe it will get some stats!
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Honestly the description of the Black Marauder sounds more like the unseen IIC than anything else. Too sleek and too smooth, looking clearly like a Marauder and yet not? I'll buy that.
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Honestly the description of the Black Marauder sounds more like the unseen IIC than anything else. Too sleek and too smooth, looking clearly like a Marauder and yet not? I'll buy that.
I don't recall the IIC being able to turn it's head and snarl at people.
Must be a new feature.
But then again, the IIC TRO wasn't being narrated by an addled wreck of a narrator.
I love the whole 'plausible deniability' aspect of the the Black Marauder stories which really sells the 'friend of a friend of a friend' horror story vibe.
I'd also like to see them back in print please.
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I'd like to make a formal complaint.
Every other Friday I get so excited I have a hard time working and just constantly scan the forums for new releases and threads to comment on instead of working.
Whoever is responsible for making this hobby metamorphose a grown man's psyche into a 12 year old boy: good work.
;D
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[Vibrating with anticipation increases]
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Also, they should be set to release earlier in the day so that I can download them before going to work instead of waiting until I get home.
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Also, they should be set to release earlier in the day so that I can download them before going to work instead of waiting until I get home.
Would that not defeat the purpose of work? ... just sayin'. but, I guess BT is a valid enough reason for an extra break or two.
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This thread needs more F5. WAY MORE!
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Also, they should be set to release earlier in the day so that I can download them before going to work instead of waiting until I get home.
At least early enough that I have something to do in quarantine after the UK working from home day ends.
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At least early enough that I have something to do in quarantine after the UK working from home day ends.
Yeah be nice to have it this evening.
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It's away!
Catalyst Game Labs Store: https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-5 (https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-5)
DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/324197/BattleTech-Recognition-Guide-ilClan-Vol-5 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/324197/BattleTech-Recognition-Guide-ilClan-Vol-5)
(https://i.ibb.co/SR65Yzn/Recog-Guide-Cover-05-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J5cm697)
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Just picked it up, was surprised they left out the -4A but otherwise pretty interesting! :thumbsup:
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Every time I see a new record sheet for the MAD-5A, I'm irrationally nervous that some busybody is going to move the CASE to the side with ammo in it and get rid of that quirk that gives it that extra flavor. Fortunately it hasn't happened yet.
But best in show is clearly that King Crab. Utterly ridiculous, therefore glorious.
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Just picked it up, was surprised they left out the -4A but otherwise pretty interesting! :thumbsup:
The base intotech variants are not included in these
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The Hammerhead is probably one of the ugliest mechs there are - seriously did someone design this looking at the Rancor Beast from Return of the Jedi? I love it! And snippety-snab, I dig that Crab.
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Mad Cats, Marauder IIs, yeah, yeah...
I would like to play with a star of Hammerheads in rough terrain.
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The Hammerhead is a glorious little battering ram. It's like someone took one of the Not-Quite-an-Awesome variants and made it cute. AES and BattleFists will make the most epic game of Rock-'em-Sock'em Robots ever!
I especially enjoyed the glorious spread that was the Conjurer and Marauder II. I was disappointed to not see any mention of Barber's Marauder IIs and how they became Barber's Marauder IIs before they were written off as Jade Turkey chow.
The Timber Wolf N intrigues me. If I turn my head right, it resembles the original 3050 artwork.
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that new Crab is pretty nifty. nice use of Plasma weapons there.
and the Timberwolf N.. basically a WYSIWYG for the original inaccurate TRO art...
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Is the Mad Cat N basically a nod to the original art with its PPC arms and LRM-15's?
And just finished it, verrrrrrrry good book! Some very nice and interesting variants (That Crab, Clan Ice Hellion approves of that speed demon!) and lots of good fluff. The Hammerheads cute and a tough lil tank of a Mech that you won't get falling on its rear that often. Art, as always is stunning, really really good!
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The base intotech variants are not included in these
:-\
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Yeah, that Mad Cat N feels like a homebrew variant I may have put together 25 years ago.
And look, the Marauder arrived two weeks early! :D I want a 10D.
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And look, the Marauder arrived two weeks early! :D I want a 10D.
I'm actually confused by the 10D. The most exciting thing about it is that House Davion is producing their own Clan-Spec ER PPCs instead of importing the Kingston model from the SharkFoxes.
But an XL Gyro on an Assault mech? My brain tells me I shouldn't like that, but maybe the statistics aren't as bad as that choice feels. Not sure.
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But an XL Gyro on an Assault mech? My brain tells me I shouldn't like that, but maybe the statistics aren't as bad as that choice feels. Not sure.
Not the first time XL gyros are used on assaults. Bunch of Banshee variants use them and pretty sure there are others. XL gyros are reasonably strong weight savers on assault 'Mechs that go for speed (300+ rated engine), and usually strong armor keeps them safe. Of course the possibility of TACs is there, but it isn't massively more risky for XL gyros.
Mildly disappointed about the Timber Wolf configurations. The T is a nice missile support platform to be sure, but not a fan of the eclectic mix of lasers for defense. The M is just... weird, though it could lay large (if weak) minefields quickly. The N is frustrating, should've had that years ago! A pity it uses PPCs, would've preferred large-medium over-under like the Prime, throw extra weight to extra LRM ammo and/or heat sinks. The W is nice certainly, i just wish it didn't have a supercharger so that it would be usable in pre-Dark Age games.
The Catapult is both nice and not nice. ELRM with AES is a nice combo, i think i've tinkered with similar ideas. Not too keen on the slow speed though, i'm not a fan of that slow heavies, though it is passable for the role. Another not nice part is lack of other advanced variants, though i suppose the Capellans have moved their Catapult production to the Catapult II.
The King Crab is cool, dual LB-20X combination isn't common and what speed it has! Definitively gonna play with that someday.
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Not the first time XL gyros are used on assaults. Bunch of Banshee variants use them and pretty sure there are others. XL gyros are reasonably strong weight savers on assault 'Mechs that go for speed (300+ rated engine), and usually strong armor keeps them safe. Of course the possibility of TACs is there, but it isn't massively more risky for XL gyros.
Mildly disappointed about the Timber Wolf configurations. The T is a nice missile support platform to be sure, but not a fan of the eclectic mix of lasers for defense. The M is just... weird, though it could lay large (if weak) minefields quickly. The N is frustrating, should've had that years ago! A pity it uses PPCs, would've preferred large-medium over-under like the Prime, throw extra weight to extra LRM ammo and/or heat sinks. The W is nice certainly, i just wish it didn't have a supercharger so that it would be usable in pre-Dark Age games.
The Catapult is both nice and not nice. ELRM with AES is a nice combo, i think i've tinkered with similar ideas. Not too keen on the slow speed though, i'm not a fan of that slow heavies, though it is passable for the role. Another not nice part is lack of other advanced variants, though i suppose the Capellans have moved their Catapult production to the Catapult II.
The King Crab is cool, dual LB-20X combination isn't common and what speed it has! Definitively gonna play with that someday.
The M is a nod to the Timber Wolf configuration from Mech Commander.
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Yeah, I love the Hammerhead . . . AES in the legs makes absolute sense- gives it stability to counter the Hardened +1.
The Hellhound 8 with a IS XL & RAC/5 is interesting, wonder if we can get a 8b at some point when they can shift over to Clan components.
The Timber Wolf T is disappointing but understandable with what had to be fit on the frame.
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Timber Wolf W - I don't recall UAC20s weighing 17 tons and being 13 crits, even the IS version is smaller than that!
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ilClan = No more Wolverines :(
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Timber Wolf W - I don't recall UAC20s weighing 17 tons and being 13 crits, even the IS version is smaller than that!
And it looks to be a ton too heavy even after corrections
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Not the first time XL gyros are used on assaults. Bunch of Banshee variants use them and pretty sure there are others. XL gyros are reasonably strong weight savers on assault 'Mechs that go for speed (300+ rated engine), and usually strong armor keeps them safe. Of course the possibility of TACs is there, but it isn't massively more risky for XL gyros.
Mildly disappointed about the Timber Wolf configurations. The T is a nice missile support platform to be sure, but not a fan of the eclectic mix of lasers for defense. The M is just... weird, though it could lay large (if weak) minefields quickly. The N is frustrating, should've had that years ago! A pity it uses PPCs, would've preferred large-medium over-under like the Prime, throw extra weight to extra LRM ammo and/or heat sinks. The W is nice certainly, i just wish it didn't have a supercharger so that it would be usable in pre-Dark Age games.
The T Wolf variants aren't anything to call home about but are better then they appeared to be at first glance. I really didn't like the T at first but as I have looked at it more, I have come to appreciate it. The LRM 20s now have Artemis V and three tons of ammo each. Does that make this into more of a support config? Maybe. It really should have had some arm mounted lasers more ideal towards long range engagements. The ERMLs are adequate. The rest of the laser suite requires getting in close to use adequately which isn't always ideal for a missile boat. The speed and armor of this mech are going to make it soften you up at range and then rush in to deliver the killing blow.
The M frustrates me. What is the point of the LPL? That tonnage could have gone into more heat sinks or into the LRM launchers. It could be so much more efficient.
The N is good. Why does it have ammo in the CT though?
I like the W. Timber Wolf in your face! ACs and SRMs for everyone!
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Maybe it's an UltraUltraAC/20, with a 3x fire rate :D
IT FEELS SO GOOD TO BE BACK
hooray for restored Timber Wolf production!
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The W is actually old school. The Uller/Nova/Mad Cat/Daishi each got one in CityTech 2nd ed
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The TimberWolf/Madcat M configuration seems to be an homage to Mechcommander 1 for the Armor and Jump variants
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Clan LRMs have no minumum range and if you're not piloting the T to 5 hexes you're still in the first few turns of the game or you're doing it wrong.
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Lots of fun stuff here!
It seems the Hellhound is our first 'Mech without a modern WYSIWYG variant. ???
I'm sure the MAD-8K gave Davion fits! "I laugh at your auto cannons, gauss rifles and missiles!" ;D
The Catapult seriously needs a C3 slave (or better yet a boosted slave) more than it needs jump jets.
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Interesting that the Mad Cat is also being made on Weingarten still. Looks like the Wolves did leave a lot behind after all
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Lots of fun stuff here!
It seems the Hellhound is our first 'Mech without a modern WYSIWYG variant. ???
Yeah weird
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And it looks to be a ton too heavy even after corrections
Everything adds up on my end. Are you working off of the record sheet?
The TimberWolf/Madcat M configuration seems to be an homage to Mechcommander 1 for the Armor and Jump variants
Good memory dude, I'm impressed.
It's kind of cool that the variant is somewhat similar to the Gargoyle and Woodsman A as well, brings them all a bit closer together.
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The TimberWolf/Madcat M configuration seems to be an homage to Mechcommander 1 for the Armor and Jump variants
First thing that crossed my mind when I saw Heavy Flamer too.
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The Catapult seriously needs a C3 slave (or better yet a boosted slave) more than it needs jump jets.
Or a tow. Sucker super slow on a fluid battle field.
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Interesting that the Mad Cat is also being made on Weingarten still. Looks like the Wolves did leave a lot behind after all
or that the Hells' Horses know a good deal when they see one. i wonder if they'll convert the site to produce them properly and not at low rate individual production levels?
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The W is actually old school. The Uller/Nova/Mad Cat/Daishi each got one in CityTech 2nd ed
Timber Wolf did too, the S?
I will agree the N is the best new TWolf IMO.
I look forward to trying the W . . . I expect there was the error of the UAC/20 getting 5t of ammo in that line- crits & tonnage match but it actually does have 4t in the design. I mean a 5/8(10) design bringing that UAC/20 to bear gets painful. I really wish they had used 3 SSRM4s instead of the pair of SSRM6s.
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Timber Wolf did too, the S?
dammit, it was the S configs for citytech not W
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Interesting that the Mad Cat is also being made on Weingarten still. Looks like the Wolves did leave a lot behind after all
What I want to know is how much of W7 was left operational in their wake, and how much got disassembled. Should we be expecting to see night wolves, blood reapers and tundra wolves from the horses? or just Bespoke Timberwolves?
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Why would they want Night Wolves?
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Combined Arms Clan sees the value in a mech designed to defeat combined arms?
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I don't think that the Horses are short on mechs that fill that role.
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ilClan = No more Wolverines :(
Wait, what?
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They'll all be called Conjurers, because, Not-Named.
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The Catapult seriously needs a C3 slave (or better yet a boosted slave) more than it needs jump jets.
A lot more ECM around these days. Makes it harder to get value from the electronic boosts.
Also C3 is direct fire only. It's hard to find a map with 40 hexes if clear LOS.
Finally, same movement profile as the K4.
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Lots of fun stuff here!
It seems the Hellhound is our first 'Mech without a modern WYSIWYG variant. ???
Does it need one? The standard Hellhound even in its base config is a very effective Mech, with its combo of speed, firepower and agility, sure its a bit lacking in the modern era but she's still got quite a slap to her.
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The M frustrates me. What is the point of the LPL? That tonnage could have gone into more heat sinks or into the LRM launchers. It could be so much more efficient.
It's kind of cool that the variant is somewhat similar to the Gargoyle and Woodsman A as well, brings them all a bit closer together.
I was just gonna say it looks like a descendant of the Woodsman A and the Timber Wolf A with the short range TW A weapons traded for longer range ones more like found on the Woodsman A.
Personal preference, I would have ditched the Heavy Flamer and ammo for more DHS, but that's just me.
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Does it need one?
pretty awkward showing up to the costume party without a costume
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They'll all be called Conjurers, because, Not-Named.
We don't know that for certain.
First off, they noted that the Wolf Empire, when they took over the factory, ceased production of the Wolverine entirely, and shifted tk the Hellhound. And while it may have been the largest Wolverine factory, it isn't the only one.
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We don't know that for certain.
First off, they noted that the Wolf Empire, when they took over the factory, ceased production of the Wolverine entirely, and shifted tk the Hellhound. And while it may have been the largest Wolverine factory, it isn't the only one.
Implication is the Shockwave also ceased production. Sartis, the RecGuide's listed Conjurer was still the original one- just the new one did not match . . . so technically what was in the entry matched the art . .
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Finally home and able to look through it.
I want a star of Hammerheads.
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Lots of fun stuff here!
It seems the Hellhound is our first 'Mech without a modern WYSIWYG variant. ???
None of the IICs are seem to be getting modern WYSIWYG.
Instead the original version is put back to production with maybe a variant or two, but not WYSIWYG types.
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The Behemoth did. It got two, in fact. But all of the Clan Second Lines from 3055 are getting reprinted to establish their retconned look, so they're throwing in the originals.
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Oh, right, forgot that.
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I'm actually confused by the 10D. The most exciting thing about it is that House Davion is producing their own Clan-Spec ER PPCs instead of importing the Kingston model from the SharkFoxes.
But an XL Gyro on an Assault mech? My brain tells me I shouldn't like that, but maybe the statistics aren't as bad as that choice feels. Not sure.
I think the XL Gyro, Endo-Composite structure, Clan-Spec ER PPCs and Medium X-Pulse Lasers were used to tie the design to the Marauder 11D appearing in the next Rec Guide. I am sure the designer could have used a standard Gyro with Endo Steel chassis to better optimize the mech.
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The Behemoth did. It got two, in fact. But all of the Clan Second Lines from 3055 are getting reprinted to establish their retconned look, so they're throwing in the originals.
1.5. the 7 has an extra ERLL and the SPL so one more gun port than the art.
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1.5. the 7 has an extra ERLL and the SPL so one more gun port than the art.
I feel like the 7 is meant as a nod to the Matar, and through it to the original Stone Rhino. More of an homage than what you see is what you get.
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sure, i can buy that. the whole WYSIWYG thing with the recguides is meant as a visual helper for players less fanatical about knowing the hardware anyway - in fact it's so informal that it wasn't even brought up until we noticed.
the stone rhino 7 is certainly close enough for me to that paradigm... though i once proxied mage knight figs from a store demo box when i forgot my case at home once and on another occasion represented a phoenix rifleman with some molding clay and a popsicle stick stuck in it that i wrote RFL-8D on... so my standards may be lax
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Everything adds up on my end. Are you working off of the record sheet?
12 tons for the UAC-20
4 tons of ammo gives 16 tons total
A pair of Streak 6s makes 22 tons
2 tons of ammo makes 24 tons
A supercharger brings it up to 26 tons
An ER Small sets the total so far at 26.5 tons
And 2 ER Medium Lasers bring the final total to 28.5 tons
TW Pod Space is still 27.5 tons
Did something change?
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Implication is the Shockwave also ceased production. Sartis, the RecGuide's listed Conjurer was still the original one- just the new one did not match . . . so technically what was in the entry matched the art . .
The Conjurer/Hellhound is also not one of the Box Set 'Mechs that they are trying so damned hard to ensure have at least one or two canon config that match the mini for the ilClan Era. I cannot possibly fathom that the they would then throw that out for the Wolverine because of "OMG Not-Named" sentiment by the Clanners.
Someone will continue to build the Classic Wolverine in the ilClan Era. I don't know who, but I'd put money on it.
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I don't know if error but MUL shows Wolverine II being used by the Clans during the Clan Invasion era. Off-hand, HOK fluff implies they were scrapped by the Clans but.. *shrug*
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12 tons for the UAC-20
4 tons of ammo gives 16 tons total
A pair of Streak 6s makes 22 tons
2 tons of ammo makes 24 tons
A supercharger brings it up to 26 tons
An ER Small sets the total so far at 26.5 tons
And 2 ER Medium Lasers bring the final total to 28.5 tons
TW Pod Space is still 27.5 tons
Did something change?
the entry says 30 rounds SSRm6 ammo, but the record sheet only says 15 rounds, so that's that error, it's really only 1 ton ammo, not 2
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What I want to know is how much of W7 was left operational in their wake, and how much got disassembled. Should we be expecting to see night wolves, blood reapers and tundra wolves from the horses? or just Bespoke Timberwolves?
The answer is, "Timberwolves that turn into cars."
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The answer is, "Timberwolves that turn into cars."
What! Tech from Syberial in Nebula California final got out??? Next thing you will have Timber wolves running around with attitude problems!
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What! Tech from Syberial in Nebula California final got out??? Next thing you will have Timber wolves running around with attitude problems!
You have seen Hell's Horses' latest innovatopn, yes?
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You have seen Hell's Horses' latest innovatopn, yes?
Yes. Turning in to cars was more VeeMech thing that struck me funny.
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Finally home and able to look through it.
I want a star of Hammerheads.
Same. It's a really cool 'mech.
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These new artists are fire.
The Hammerhead is beautiful. Which is nice because my kickstarter character landed in it. xD
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Oh I figured they were using KS characters for this but I hadn’t seen anyone from around here say theirs had been used
Whoever had kitsune in the raffle come get your prize
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Oh I figured they were using KS characters for this but I hadn’t seen anyone from around here say theirs had been used
Whoever had kitsune in the raffle come get your prize
I figured since they were just dropping pages of notable warriors this was how they'd get through the backlog.
Which isn't bad. They've always had to write in Mechwarriors for TRO's so this has a lot more purpose I feel like.
So I assumed they were, but I was scrolling through and was like, "That name looks familiar."
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I figured the Griffin primitive was our forum poster who 'Help me commit war crimes for my canon character!' But the poster never leaped to claim the notoriety.
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We don't know that for certain.
That's not a position I hold, I was just clarifying what I believed the confusion to be over.
The answer is, "Timberwolves that turn into cars."
NGL, I would totally make use of a Quadvee dervied from the Timber Wolf, provided I can get the horses to trade me some.
And 2 ER Medium Lasers bring the final total to 28.5 tons
TW Pod Space is still 27.5 tons
Did something change?
I'm thinking that final line of the statblock that reads "ER Medium Lasers 2t 2c" is in error, and it should be a single 1t, 1c ER Medium Laser. I've never seen a statblock indicate two lasers in the same line that way, and I bet what happened is that someone typoed the statblock, to say "ER Medium Lasers" when they meant a single laser, and someone else corrected it to read 2 tons and 2 crits, thinking that plural lasers were intended
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I built all the Timber Wolf configs in SSW from record sheets and everything worked out fine, it is the pg 12 table that's utterly wrong.
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The rec guides have been fun. Most mechs have character without being overtly sub-optimal.
Now we just need some mechs with Narc and iNarc
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I built all the Timber Wolf configs in SSW from record sheets and everything worked out fine, it is the pg 12 table that's utterly wrong.
Huh, so, there ARE two lasers there on the record sheet, but it's the Streak Ammo that's all messed up. There's only 1 ton of it, 15 shots, not 2 for 30. and either way it absolutely doesn't take 12 crits like the table says... what the heck happened there?
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Anyone notice in the Hammerhead write up they mention another Wolf Empire mech, the Amarok? Time to speculate about that
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I don't normally like the all-close-range King Crabs, but this superfast death or glory beastie looks FUN, and so does its little kid. >:D
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Anyone notice in the Hammerhead write up they mention another Wolf Empire mech, the Amarok? Time to speculate about that
Stated this in the Chatterweb, but I looked up what an Amarok was, it's an inuit legend about big, fierce solitary wolves that kill people who hunt alone at night. Instantly, my mind went to something derived from the Night Wolf, possibly an omnified version of it, or one more suited to mech-on-mech combat.
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And i suggested something based on the Wulfen and/or Skinwalker.
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Stated this in the Chatterweb, but I looked up what an Amarok was, it's an inuit legend about big, fierce solitary wolves that kill people who hunt alone at night. Instantly, my mind went to something derived from the Night Wolf, possibly an omnified version of it, or one more suited to mech-on-mech combat.
I hope that whatever the Amarok is, lives up to its name.
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Me, i'm most interested in the Jade Phoenix. Was disappointed it was not in this one. Hope it is in the next one.
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Well there plenty of time. RecGuide includes 1 new mech 6 variants old ones. We got 17 more to go.
I just hope big book will include new designs we haven't seen before to keep fresh.
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Me, i'm most interested in the Jade Phoenix. Was disappointed it was not in this one. Hope it is in the next one.
Saving the best for last is a generally accepted strategy. :fine_print:
Things have changed since then, though. The Jade Phoenix now looks to be the culmination of wave 3.
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Wave 3? I assume currently we're at Wave 1, ending with the next release?
Whatever. Teasing interesting units is frustrating (well, what sounds interesting, might end up being a dud for all i know of course), i just keep expecting seeing them and then getting disappointed.
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I don't know if error but MUL shows Wolverine II being used by the Clans during the Clan Invasion era. Off-hand, HOK fluff implies they were scrapped by the Clans but.. *shrug*
Well the only quirk on the Conjurer is extended torso twist, so maybe it's more descended from the II than the original? the II had less quirks than the original, and the Conjurer just has the Torso Twist common to all three.
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Stated this in the Chatterweb, but I looked up what an Amarok was, it's an inuit legend about big, fierce solitary wolves that kill people who hunt alone at night. Instantly, my mind went to something derived from the Night Wolf, possibly an omnified version of it, or one more suited to mech-on-mech combat.
Just going off that legend, this sounds like something similar to an Exterminator or Headhunter Elementals, something well suited to ambushing and quickly taking down a lance of scouts, or a single high value mech within it's lance. Something fast that can keep up with scouts or avoid the worst of being in among heavier stuff, with a decent amount of highly accurate close in firepower.
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I was reading the 1st book again and this stuck out
Building upon the last few decades of BattleMech design, the latest generation of Jade Falcon OmniMechs incorporates many hard-learned lessons from the fields of war and the gantries of frustrated technicians. Like its larger cousin, the Jade Phoenix,the Hierofalcon is poised to compliment or even supersede a number of standard BattleMechs in the Falcon touman
Regarding the Heirofalcon, and that got me thinking about its role. Apart from the fact that the Heiro is a VERY good Mech and none of its configs are bad, I think its a replacement for the Gyrfalcon.
The Gyrfalon uses laser heatsinks and reflective armour and its non-omni. Now this is speculation/headcanon but I'd say reflective armours gonna be a bugger to maintain, and as its on a mobile platform like the Gyrfalcon then you'd probably have to do a lot of work after its come back after jumping around and the like.
The Heiro uses nothing overwhelmingly 'new' save the Partial Wing and the Falcons have had that since the 3080's so by 3150 they know how to work on those. So the Heiro's basically the less maintenance intensive replacement for the Gyrfalcon. Sure the Gyr will still be used, its a superb harasser and the Heiro will be more used as a trooper but I'd bet you that numbers of Gyr's in production would drop.
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Hierofalcon fuff essentially flies into face older fluff that OmniMechs are expensive and standard BattleMechs are cheap.
That's about face since the standard BattleMechs could been obsoleted and ultimately replaced by OmniMechs. Which why i was under the impression the OmniMechs were artificially made expensive to upkeep.
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I think with the Heiro vs Gyrfalcon debate its that the Gyr's got more advanced and maintenance intensive stuff in it thanks to its reflective armour which would probably be more expensive etc to produce and then you've got to maintain it. The Heiro's a lower tech solution. Yeah something like a standard Warhammer IIC is basically farm machinery that can be repaired with a brick and some string but when you start putting laser heatsinks and reflec armour on stuff, its gonna be harder to maintain, omni or not.
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Nothing on the Gyrfalcon is less than 80 years old by the time the Hierofalcon debuts, the suggestion that it's designed to replace the Gyrfalcon is missing the part where it's a much more direct/superior replacement to things like the Conjurer, Griffin IIC, and classic Shadow Cat that are all less iconically Falcon and less modern.
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OK, I'm going to fish for opinions here - what kickstarter mech most desperately needs a good rec guide version?
I'm going to put forth the Cyclops.
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OK, I'm going to fish for opinions here - what kickstarter mech most desperately needs a good rec guide version?
I'm going to put forth the Cyclops.
Disagree about desperately part, the Cyclops has several good variants as it is. See CP-11-G for example, which is actually WYSIWYG with reasonable weapons like Gauss Rifle, 4/6 movement (with SFE!), 96% armor.
A new tech variant would be nice, of course.
Speaking of the Cyclops, it really needs MWDA sculpt version, see Plog's art based on the MWDA mini: https://www.deviantart.com/mattplog/art/DARK-AGES-CYCLOPS-618887448
Anyway, what actually needs a variant...
The Atlas has no good WYSIWYG variant i think. Good variants, just not what's basically an update to the basic AS7-D.
The Jenner has really weak variant selection all in all, IMO (i don't like the energy-only Jenners at all). Really could do with an advanced variant.
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The Jenner has really weak variant selection all in all, IMO (i don't like the energy-only Jenners at all). Really could do with an advanced variant.
*coughHavoccough*
While it does not quite look like it . . . heck, we should also get the Jenner IIC- I always wished it was more like the Jenner instead of going Javelin style.
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Since Battletech does not deal with availablity, i fear old designs will crowd out the recent new ones. Nostalgia can viral and lethal to to new things trying slowly sunset some old ones.
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I'd also be in favor of a Jenner IIC that more closely mimics the classic Jenner. A Jenner C would be interesting.
I really enjoyed this most recent volume, though I could be biased since it includes the Timber Wolf and my canon character piloting a Conjurer.
As others have already mentioned the Hammerhead is a cool little murder-machine with an interesting combo. The Marauder II 8K definitely seems to be a response to Davion dakka love. However the new Davion Marauder(II)s could be a response to Kurita responses to Davion dakka. A bit of Davion/Kurita arms racing.
The Timby's back. The Timber Wolf T in general config and playstyle is the sort of Timber Wolf I would pilot in MWO. The Timber Wolf W is an intimidating in your face brawler, which is somewhat different from most other Timber Wolf configs, and I can't wait to try it out. The N is a nice generalist and supplement to the Prime, it really should have come sooner.
The Conjurer 8 has an interesting origin story and is an interesting take on the Conjurer. Wolverine IICs Conjurers and Griffin Cs are once again roaming battlefields and tag-teaming opponents just as their Star League forbears did hundreds of years ago.
The new Crab duo is an interesting take. Get in, hit hard, and get out; they almost act more like sortieing aircraft. The CRB-54 almost the exact opposite type of Mech from it CRB-27 predecessor.
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Since Battletech does not deal with availablity, i fear old designs will crowd out the recent new ones. Nostalgia can viral and lethal to to new things trying slowly sunset some old ones.
Well... Battletech's origin is mechs that are centuries old... so keeping them going by continuing to strap newer equipment on them makes sense. It will likely always have those legacy issues, but at least the old mechs keep getting new tech.
But also, like, the Dragon redesign for instance is really impressive so that sort of progression can keep going... and then sometimes you're just waiting to hit an iconic mech look.
Fafnir's, Bushwackers, etc. You just eventually a hit a mech people love.
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OK, I'm going to fish for opinions here - what kickstarter mech most desperately needs a good rec guide version?
I'm going to put forth the Cyclops.
The Rifleman is prime for a bad ass WYSIWYG variant!
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The Rifleman is prime for a bad ass WYSIWYG variant!
A good pick! I skipped over the classics when i thought about my choices for this question.
While the Rifleman has several ok to good Phoenix variants, none of its WYSIWYG variants are particularly great (IMO).
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IWM just released a series of individual weapons that you can use to make the variants.
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OK, I'm going to fish for opinions here - what kickstarter mech most desperately needs a good rec guide version?
I'm going to back the Jenner as well. One of my most favorite light mechs, especially when playing in 3025. I nice upgrade for the 3150s would be sweet. 8)
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I'm going to back the Jenner as well. One of my most favorite light mechs, especially when playing in 3025. I nice upgrade for the 3150s would be sweet. 8)
pair of SRM2 iOS? Which don't have to roll for heat explosions BTW, so they're free to load infernoes even on a heat hog.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69980.0
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pair of SRM2 iOS? Which don't have to roll for heat explosions BTW, so they're free to load infernoes even on a heat hog.
:brew: Burn baby!
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I don't normally like the all-close-range King Crabs, but this superfast death or glory beastie looks FUN, and so does its little kid. >:D
You know the King Crab never really impressed me. I mean it was big and scary, but like an Atlas it seemed to have trouble getting into position. This King Crab though, sprints at 86km/h. That's pretty ****** scary, especially given the BFGs in the arms.
And now trying to find a way to shoehorn in a MASC...
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I'm pretty sure that if you actually manage to get two LB-20Xs moving ten hexes, the heavens will open up and Ivanova herself will pluck the design from your grasp, saying "No. Science has gone too far."
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I'm pretty sure that if you actually manage to get two LB-20Xs moving ten hexes, the heavens will open up and Ivanova herself will pluck the design from your grasp, saying "No. Science has gone too far."
If you can use that you will say "Science is so cool!" ;)
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Ivanova: "I am the right hand of vengeance and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth...! I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you will ever see. God sent me."
Ivanova would love it.
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I'm pretty sure that if you actually manage to get two LB-20Xs moving ten hexes, the heavens will open up and Ivanova herself will pluck the design from your grasp, saying "No. Science has gone too far."
Good thing I put it on the fan designs board (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=70665.0). Had to cheat though and use Clan tech.
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I do like the Hammerhead. It seems to be to be a baby Awesome. I may have to tweak the layout to reflect that a little bit more.
Too bad it's not for sale to the Inner Sphere powers. I think the FWL, LC, and FedSuns would love to have a strong defensive unit like this.
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What is interesting is in the current era there is no other design afaik that is limited for sale to just the other Clans. The only other thing that has sales restrictions is the Tiburon, and that is just they are not selling it to anyone period.
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I do like the Hammerhead. It seems to be to be a baby Awesome. I may have to tweak the layout to reflect that a little bit more.
Too bad it's not for sale to the Inner Sphere powers. I think the FWL, LC, and FedSuns would love to have a strong defensive unit like this.
Well, *technically* it's available to the FWL through the Protectorate. I know that's the excuse I'll be using to field one.
What is interesting is in the current era there is no other design afaik that is limited for sale to just the other Clans. The only other thing that has sales restrictions is the Tiburon, and that is just they are not selling it to anyone period.
I actually just looked into this the other day.
The only other example I could find was the Mad Cat Mk II-Enhanced, which interestingly enough, also has hardened armor—though there is a smattering of designs that the Foxes do keep to themselves.
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Interesting that nobody's commented on a very important piece of info:
Clan Wolf now holds the Rhodes Foundry.
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Interesting that nobody's commented on a very important piece of info:
Clan Wolf now holds the Rhodes Foundry.
They do? I thought it was just a raid. Re-reads relevant page. Well, I'll be a Falcon's uncle. They do.
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Well, if you read the Colossus entry in TRO: 3145, there's talk of bringing in a company of Colossi to guard the place - which they assume will be a primary Wolf target when the wall falls, but then Shattered Fortress shows the garrison assigned to that planet moved to another world, only mentioning in passing that the world the Rhodes facility was on was one of a handful that fell without much of a fight. Good lesson that the Colossi aren't effective operating without support against foes that outrange them, since they're certainly not going to close the gap.
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The factory is going to get LAM'd . . .
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The factory is going to get LAM'd . . .
Good.
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After rereading Vol.4 I stumbled across this in the Wasp's Notable Pilots:
This attracted the attention of the Federated Suns’ MIIO, who, desperate to rebuild their shattered forces in the wake of the First Prince’s death, drafted her immediately into the Davion Guards.
Now I am wondering, whether it is related to Caleb or if we have to worry about Julian as well ???
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I'd assume that refers to Caleb... If Julian's gone, FedSuns will be having even harder times me thinks.
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Agreed.
Given that last time we've seen him in "A Splinter of Hope" has him losing one leg, it might be getting worse
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After rereading Vol.4 I stumbled across this in the Wasp's Notable Pilots:
This attracted the attention of the Federated Suns’ MIIO, who, desperate to rebuild their shattered forces in the wake of the First Prince’s death, drafted her immediately into the Davion Guards.
Now I am wondering, whether it is related to Caleb or if we have to worry about Julian as well ???
That's a funny line that could be taken either way. When I read it, I thought it was an obvious reference to Caleb's death on Palmyra in 3144. That being said, if it was indeed meant as a hint at Julian's death, I'd say that would pretty much be light's out for the Suns.
And I hope that isn't the direction we're headed in, so I'm going to firmly put it in my brain that this a reference to Caleb!
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Agreed.
Given that last time we've seen him in "A Splinter of Hope" has him losing one leg, it might be getting worse
Even if it gets worse, he will still be able to pilot a Black Knight. ;)
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That's a funny line that could be taken either way. When I read it, I thought it was an obvious reference to Caleb's death on Palmyra in 3144. That being said, if it was indeed meant as a hint at Julian's death, I'd say that would pretty much be light's out for the Suns.
And I hope that isn't the direction we're headed in, so I'm going to firmly put it in my brain that this a reference to Caleb!
In the deployment history it talks about it being Calebs death. Or it makes it very easy to assume that the two (the deployment history and the notable pilot) were references to the same event.
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In the deployment history it talks about it being Calebs death. Or it makes it very easy to assume that the two (the deployment history and the notable pilot) were references to the same event.
Any quote? Because i can't see any reference to Caleb ir Palmyra in the whole PDF.
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Caleb. Not Julian.
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Thx
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Even if it gets worse, he will still be able to pilot a Black Knight. ;)
Tis but a scratch
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Agreed.
Given that last time we've seen him in "A Splinter of Hope" has him losing one leg, it might be getting worse
Julian lost a leg?
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Julian lost a leg?
Part of one, and other bits . . . the Davion hate manifested some sharp objects to poke holes in his skin.
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Caleb. Not Julian.
Adrian, you just prevented a minimum of two pages of arguments and baseless speculation. :thumbsup:
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I do like the Hammerhead. It seems to be to be a baby Awesome. I may have to tweak the layout to reflect that a little bit more.
Too bad it's not for sale to the Inner Sphere powers. I think the FWL, LC, and FedSuns would love to have a strong defensive unit like this.
Lacks the guns to be a good defensive unit. Certainly a fun unit. I am just not sure jamming it into the middle of a hostile Star will give optimum results.
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I'm not sure how the Hammerhead is meant to be used. Super-tough Medium is an odd niche, and it lacks the firepower of just about any comparable Clan 'Mech.
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I'm not sure how the Hammerhead is meant to be used. Super-tough Medium is an odd niche, and it lacks the firepower of just about any comparable Clan 'Mech.
Agreed. Interesting Hardened Armor medium, and the AES means it is actually HARDER to knock down than a normal mech, which is normally the weakness of a Hardened armor machine. That being said, firepower is anemic, so it looks like the machine you ignore while you focus down a Stormcrow or 'scarier' mech when playing IS.
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Harasser. A Hammerhead can keep fighting for a long time and is unlikely to be disabled by an unlucky hit. A bit like a IJJ 'Mech though obviously unable to generate the high to-hits.
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The tactics used against Liao speaks to me. This is something that has a very real chance of charging a line and surviving to push through and threaten your opponent's formation from the rear while the rest of your units keep pushing from the front...and they've got the bare minimum of firepower needed so that you can never just ignore them.
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I'm not sure how the Hammerhead is meant to be used. Super-tough Medium is an odd niche, and it lacks the firepower of just about any comparable Clan 'Mech.
It honestly makes for a pretty good multi-role holefiller.
I've used it in places where I'd usually use something like the Wolverine -9M. It's able to accomplish most of the same things, on a heck of a lot tougher of a package, for pretty similar BV.
But I guess it is notable that I'm using it as a replacement for Spheroid 'Mechs, not Clan ones. Kind of goes against the fluff.
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Yeah, I was thinking it might end up being the new gold standard for skirmisher mechs. Besides requiring 20 points of damage to take the head off, the Hammerhead was equipped with what would be the best run for the role- a cLPL- and I say that as a cERLL believer. If you can only mount 1 big gun in the torso, the Foxes picked the right one. Imagine being the Drac, Lyran or Republic scout that has to get past a skirmish line of Hammerheads . . . they are going to be fast, they are going to be accurate . . . and you will not have the fire power to punch them out of the way.
For some reason I was thinking it had a supercharger.
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Don't forget that in order to force a PSR against a Hardened Armor 'Mech you have to be able to take off 20 bubbles - or 40 points of damage. This makes it incredibly difficult to knock over and slow down without devoting significant firepower or physical attacks, both of which can be exploited by a canny player.
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Any quote? Because i can't see any reference to Caleb ir Palmyra in the whole PDF.
My mistake, I had just reread all my rec guides and they blurred together, it was in the blurb on the MAD II
Also in regards to the hammerhead, it has both the speed and armor to be a pain to shoot at as well as the speed (kinda) and armor to take some shooting and keep moving forward. Ghost Bears especially the IS kungsarme groups use physical attacks.
25 alpha strike plus it can kick at most numbers with a fair amount of success or punch twice for an extra 9. It’s a second line battering ram.
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Don't forget that in order to force a PSR against a Hardened Armor 'Mech you have to be able to take off 20 bubbles - or 40 points of damage. This makes it incredibly difficult to knock over and slow down without devoting significant firepower or physical attacks, both of which can be exploited by a canny player.
Or the opponent has to take some mechs loaded with specialty weapons, which presents its own limitations.
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Two Hammerheads supported by Hellbringers with battle armor support. The Hammerheads soak up the damage while the Hellbringers dish out the damage. BA are there for area denial. To keep enemies at range from the Hellbringers and the to exploit opportunities that present themselves.
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Yeah, I was thinking it might end up being the new gold standard for skirmisher mechs. Besides requiring 20 points of damage to take the head off, the Hammerhead was equipped with what would be the best run for the role- a cLPL- and I say that as a cERLL believer. If you can only mount 1 big gun in the torso, the Foxes picked the right one.
Yeah, it's undergunned (actually feels like it's armed like an old 3025 mech) but they did a good job of making sure each weapon counts. They're really impressive. Fast, tough and still dangerous.
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Lacks the guns to be a good defensive unit. Certainly a fun unit. I am just not sure jamming it into the middle of a hostile Star will give optimum results.
Ironically good at its stated purpose though... if you are trying to level up a Rookie in Atow or something there aren't a lot of safer alternatives.
But yeah, the real challenge of this mech is trying to convince opponents to shoot at it.
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Of course it's "undergunned", it spent 15 tons of a 45 ton mech on armor and didn't skimp on speed. What exactly were you (collectively) expecting? ???
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Of course it's "undergunned", it spent 15 tons of a 45 ton mech on armor and didn't skimp on speed. What exactly were you (collectively) expecting? ???
I was talking to.my friend on discord when I first looked at it and I kept saying, "15 tons? It's 45 tons. It's one third armor."
That being said, I feel like in slugging matches with similar undergunned over armored mechs (I mean specifically the Mad Cat Mk II enhanced) they tend to come out on top anyways. It's a medium with assault mech armor.
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Eh, sorry for making another post...
It really also seems designed for melee combat. It's got battlefists and shrugs off piloting rolls and it's really difficult to ignore a mech engaging you in melee combat. So it does more damage than its weapons suggest.
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The AES also helps it avoid skidding or taking damage when moving through buildings, which does help it stay competitive in urban environments.
Another side effect would be that it won't ever fall in depth 1 water if used with a standard 3/4 Clan pilot.
It's quite versatile.
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I think Weirdo, Jellico and Colt have the right idea
super tough harasser, just on the right side of dangerous that you can't ignore it, but not dangerous enough to spend tons of time on, or fragile enough to get a knock out in a few hits
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I was talking to.my friend on discord when I first looked at it and I kept saying, "15 tons? It's 45 tons. It's one third armor."
That being said, I feel like in slugging matches with similar undergunned over armored mechs (I mean specifically the Mad Cat Mk II enhanced) they tend to come out on top anyways. It's a medium with assault mech armor.
yeah, it is one tough little thing. yet still speedy, unlike a lot of other heavy armor units.
i could see these being paired with speedy high firepower units.. either use the hammerhead as vanguards and brawlers to close and engage up close while you pound the same enemy at range, or use the hammerheads as an anvil on which to trap your mobile 'hammer' units against.
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i could see these being paired with speedy high firepower units.. either use the hammerhead as vanguards and brawlers to close and engage up close while you pound the same enemy at range, or use the hammerheads as an anvil on which to trap your mobile 'hammer' units against.
2 Hammerheads, Conjurer 8, Linebacker or Stormcrow for Star Commander/Captain, and maybe something like that Pack Hunter mock up . . . makes a tidy little skirmisher star.
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The factory is going to get LAM'd . . .
One can only hope. That and the Quadvee factories as well
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I was talking to.my friend on discord when I first looked at it and I kept saying, "15 tons? It's 45 tons. It's one third armor."
That being said, I feel like in slugging matches with similar undergunned over armored mechs (I mean specifically the Mad Cat Mk II enhanced) they tend to come out on top anyways. It's a medium with assault mech armor.
One thing I learnt from custom DropShips carved from ferro aluminium is that all the armor in the world doesn't help if you can't do something with it. You are just a punching bag
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The Hammerhead is capable of forcing a PSR without relying on good cluster rolls and can manage a +3 TMM without any risky equipment. What more do you want from it?
EDIT: it feels like the Hammerhead is being (unfairly) compared to other things that have 15 tons of armor, and not instead compared to other things that are 6/9 (or 6/8, in this case).
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What mechs do the Clans have that go 6/9? Oh yeah, the Puma, Pouncer, Uller, Shadowcat III... Just imagine being in an Uller and finding yourself up against one.
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Another way to use a Hammerhead is as the bait 'Mech of your star. Just run it up to medium or short range so it presents better target numbers than the rest of your units. If they ignore it for other targets, then just get behind someone next turn, the damage you will be tossing out won't seem so insignificant coming at rear armor.
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Also, what ever happened to Hellhound 6? Or did I just miss something?
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The Hammerhead could be used as a distraction unit. If your opponent has a mech that keeps shooting at something that you don't want to be shot, have the Hammerhead ram it frequently. The opponent will be forced to re-direct its attention.
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One thing I learnt from custom DropShips carved from ferro aluminium is that all the armor in the world doesn't help if you can't do something with it. You are just a punching bag
Great Turtle resembles this comment. ;)
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Well, another thing is just having more than one. We keep talking about how people can not target it (and get filleted by the large pulse laser...
But if you roll in with three of them then you just turn on DMX's X gonna give it to ya and feeding frenzy on them.
Three hammerheads and a pair of Mad Cat III 5's providing LRM support against a medium lance/star and you get to wishbone the opposition.
EDIT: it feels like the Hammerhead is being (unfairly) compared to other things that have 15 tons of armor, and not instead compared to other things that are 6/9 (or 6/8, in this case).
Yeah, most clan mediums use those 15 tons on guns so the weapons on the Hammerhead can do work on their armor and it's fast enough to make some of its opponents shots miss.
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But I guess it is notable that I'm using it as a replacement for Spheroid 'Mechs, not Clan ones. Kind of goes against the fluff.
Actually, I think you might be on to something here. Just about all of the Clans have been forced to incorporate IS-tech machines into their armies at this point, some of them even in front-line units. We know how much Clanners HATE being seen as anything but the best, even if we're talking about the equipment as opposed to the Warrior. Hammerheads might be a (relatively) affordable way to try and filter out the 'inferior' machines in favor of proper Clan ones, at least for your more promising pilots. And as has been pointed out, these new ones will likely last a hell of a lot longer than your average Cougar or Shadow Cat.
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One can only hope. That and the Quadvee factories as well
FUN? IN MY BATTLETECH GAMES? I CAN'T ALLOW THAT!
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It isn't a mech for everyone, and it certainly isn't low skill, but it gives us a really tough medium with decent speed.
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It reminds me of those videos from the Serengeti where lions are chewing on a rhino’s hide then give up.
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It reminds me of those videos from the Serengeti where lions are chewing on a rhino’s hide then give up.
But the Rhino quad doesn't have hardened armor, it only has Clan Ferro. Unless you're talking the Battle Armor, but that only has Clan standard BA armor. The Rhino tank uses standard armor in all its variants. Then there's the Stone Rhino, the 6 variant uses Clan Ferro, but the rest use standard armor. :D
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Actually, I think you might be on to something here. Just about all of the Clans have been forced to incorporate IS-tech machines into their armies at this point, some of them even in front-line units. We know how much Clanners HATE being seen as anything but the best, even if we're talking about the equipment as opposed to the Warrior. Hammerheads might be a (relatively) affordable way to try and filter out the 'inferior' machines in favor of proper Clan ones, at least for your more promising pilots. And as has been pointed out, these new ones will likely last a hell of a lot longer than your average Cougar or Shadow Cat.
That's a good point. Filling your PGCs/Second line Clusters with Hammerheads would be a good way to let less skilled warriors survive to gain experience.
It reminds me of those videos from the Serengeti where lions are chewing on a rhino’s hide then give up.
But the Rhino quad doesn't have hardened armor, it only has Clan Ferro. Unless you're talking the Battle Armor, but that only has Clan standard BA armor. The Rhino tank uses standard armor in all its variants. Then there's the Stone Rhino, the 6 variant uses Clan Ferro, but the rest use standard armor. :D
I'm not gonna lie: It took me a minute to get the joke. But then I started thinking about a Rhino with hardened armor and, well, I've got to open SSW to work on this.
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Following from this (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69931.msg1641381#msg1641381), catching up with the thread now.
If what we've seen in the first 3 volumes continues to be the norm, only each volume's unseen 'Mech will get 2 WYSIWYG variants. The rest of the Kickstarter 'Mechs will only get one.
Yes. As I said in the initial comment in the first round-up, the initial mission statement (beside the WYSIWYG) was an organic upgrade in a world where post-3050, "Phoenix" did not cover the whole universe. In general, the first of the two featured variants is likely to have been around a long time come 3150. This isn't always the case, especially for units where non-Phoenix production wasn't happening for a time there. The second featured unit derived from the realization that the Classics deserve their spot in the high tech, high-end limelight. I thank Ray (and, though he may not know it, Paul) for that wise choice. Again, there will be more than just a few exceptions, as all units presented will be feasible in some way or another. We want new player-friendly, power player-friendly, and in-universe RPGers happy. Easy, see?
But, can the PAC carry specialty ammo and what would be available to the clans?
In the 32nd century, PACs can use armor-piercing ammo. Though granted, the PAC/8s' range hobbles them, you can basically assume AP ammo was the raison d'être for them popping up from time to time. If nothing else, at least they get the AC/10-class TAC odds.
Besides, the Thor's T will allow for a nod to a very old bit of fluff that, thus far, has never been entirely accurate. But we'll have to wait until vol 21 to see that...
I'm curious, though—why did the letter T get chosen for these designs?
A lot of other things were examined. Once we'd returned to letters, a lot of the alphabet was already taken - "T" also required a change of two NTNU configs. Initially, it was going to be "N" (working title nuPrime), but I deemed changing the Huntan as too invasive. Other front-runners were O and Y, but ultimately we have a vague hook that may be explored in the future, which led us to T.
No integral jump jets on III instead turned over to pod space but somehow doesn't seem to fully translate to better configurations (a couple are nice) and it does allow for the use of improved jets on at least one configuration but I'm not sure they are needed on the Mech
The Prime was very much informed by the MWDA Game pieces, which had "Pulse" weapons, "Heavy" armor - and no jump jets. The Shadow Cat originally only had Prime, A, and B configurations, so the new A and B followed that pattern, just using more modern components to make the most of the increased flexibility while working with the technically reduced pod space. The C was the writer's creation when the Omni was folded into this project.
IMO jump jets make no sense being pod-able and should only be allowed as fixed equipment
If I could turn back time and change one aspect of BT, it would be to rule exactly this (and CASE/II where applicable). Of course, it was the CJF Tukayyid campaign that kinda fowled things up on that front...
Off the top of my head, the RecGuides will feature two new OmniMechs with fixed jj, for very different reasons; bit be assured they are there as deliberate stylistic elements and not because of an oversight.
What I'm confused about is the artwork of the Hierofalcon. It just looks so much more basic and crude (check the cockpit section, the partial wing and feet) compared to the earlier Shrike, Gyrfalcon and Eyrie (the quality of their artworks is surely debatable too) or the other two JF totem mechs whose name I can't remember right now, which look much more refined as totem mechs, which doesn't make a lot of sense, since the Hierofalcon is a later design. To me, it barely looks like a bird style mech at all. It reminds me more of a bee or bumble-bee.
As previously stated, the Hierofalcon is most emphatically not a totem 'Mech. It follows the footsteps of something like a Black Lanner and in-universe is more closely related to, uh, the Night Gyr than the Gyrfalcon.
Also, to me it felt like the artist plucked the imagery right out my brain. There is no arguing taste, but to me it is beautiful. Of course, with the wings and chicken-walker set-up, a bird will come up in the mind's eye. It wasn't until the <redacted> that I suggested bird proportions. Of a sparrow, ahem. The Hierofalcon itself was most definitely never modeled after a bird, though.
Rec Guides are pretty much new variants for Kickstarter mechs + new Ilclan era mechs.
...and most* remaining unseen.
*ComStar need not apply.
Could the designer of the Ice Ferret K chime in and say whether it was supposed to be a WYSIWYG variant?
Nope, only the Ts. If others come close, it's coincidence.
WarHawk T: 4x PAC/8 & 1x RL-10. :D
The Warhawk is one of the most problematic of the Omnis simply because art and lore result in such parameters. All the suggestions in this thread came up at some point. Including that one, though it was marked as a joke. ^-^
Actually, what I'd like to see is Dual Cockpit Mechs, such as those from the old MechWarrior Companion. It would seem an easy way to combat superior Clan skills and leverage the IS greater population base. The rare individuals who could use a neurohelmet become pilots, the many who can't become gunners.
Not a chance it'll happen but always hopeful.
You and me both. But that ship has well and truly sailed, especially now that all the Dual Cockpit 'Mechs have been adapted to Command Consoles. I brought this up as a fan right when TO was published and was told they were deliberately swallowed up by Command Consoles. The TO RS in the first print even still had the DC option! Looks like a decade or so later, I could have championed this, but again, that ship has sailed... :'(
The base intotech variants are not included in these
This project, in fact, caters to the bits of TRO history that aren't covered by any currently available post-FASA TROs. Which for the Classics means the 3050 units. They are a starting point to the individual history of the various variants we put forward. And we are just catering to the specific contents in terms of the RS.
The M is a nod to the Timber Wolf configuration from Mech Commander.
O:-) 8) :thumbsup:
It seems the Hellhound is our first 'Mech without a modern WYSIWYG variant. ???
As Ray has stated over here (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69619.msg1627424#msg1627424), the 3055 batch will all be featured in their original glory. This is a slightly different way of doing it than with the IS Classics as mentioned above. The IS units of 3050 weren't that great about WYSIWYG, so tweaking was going to happen anyways, but even then, many of them would not have been quite as relevant as desired in a 3050 setting. Well, ClanTech hasn't really seen any power creep in the past three (!) RL decades. These old units are good to go; helped by the fact that the Clan set of 3055 as a group was extremely finely tuned. I appreciate what Paint it Pink (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=637) (= original writer) did there and it helped inform this decision.
As for perceived attempts at WYSIWYG, I refer to the statement on T config Omnis, above.
Whatever. Teasing interesting units is frustrating (well, what sounds interesting, might end up being a dud for all i know of course), i just keep expecting seeing them and then getting disappointed.
Teasing is what I may have done, mildly, in one or two places in this thread. The RecGuide can essentially be viewed as a coherent project. It would be artificially limiting if the writers were not permitted to reference the units not yet been released.
it feels like the Hammerhead is being (unfairly) compared to other things that have 15 tons of armor, and not instead compared to other things that are 6/9 (or 6/8, in this case).
A bit. Or, if viewed from the 15-ton armor POV, compared to 80-tonners or above, only something like a Gargoyle can match the running speed. And in some configs, it doesn't carry much more firepower than a Hammerhead, at which stage, the 45-tonner is looking mighty fine.
Of course, some may say that the Hammerhead stats may have been a product dev's reaction to other stat submissions that went off the deep end in terms of BV... to which I'd counter that's hearsay. ^-^
Also, what ever happened to Hellhound 6? Or did I just miss something?
Nice catch. Sometimes we play a waiting game. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes, it just takes a really long time. How long have we been waiting for the Shadow Cat D? It's finally going to see the light of day in volume 9 of the RecGuides and may seem familiar to some. RS 3145 NTNU came out in 2013 and back then, I'd made sure the D was skipped, as we'd missed it in RS 3058Uu in 2010. If the Hellhound 6 is still AWoL in 2027, please remind me of it!
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The Warhawk is one of the most problematic of the Omnis simply because art and lore result in such parameters. All the suggestions in this thread came up at some point. Including that one, though it was marked as a joke. ^-^
I think I'd like to see the LRM10 turned into a Streak-10.
Get the weight by using quad-ERLL & extra DHS.
Spare half ton could be a Light-Probe internal so there is no weapon port.
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I think I'd like to see the LRM10 turned into a Streak-10.
Get the weight by using quad-ERLL & extra DHS.
Spare half ton could be a Light-Probe internal so there is no weapon port.
4 HLL & Streak10 works just fine . . . along with RHS.
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I noticed most the mechs new built (non-OmniMechs) so far have been weapons load wise.
Dominator be notable one. Many of thr MWDA Built Mechs were lack excessive weapons.
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The Warhawk is one of the most problematic of the Omnis simply because art and lore result in such parameters. All the suggestions in this thread came up at some point. Including that one, though it was marked as a joke. ^-^
*All* of them? ^-^
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But the Rhino quad doesn't have hardened armor, it only has Clan Ferro. Unless you're talking the Battle Armor, but that only has Clan standard BA armor. The Rhino tank uses standard armor in all its variants. Then there's the Stone Rhino, the 6 variant uses Clan Ferro, but the rest use standard armor. :D
A 7,215 ton Lion could swallow a Rhino whole.
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4 HLL & Streak10 works just fine . . . along with RHS.
Off-hand RHS is one tech missing from BMM so i would not expect it to be featured in WYSIWYG variant.
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The Warhawk is one of the most problematic of the Omnis simply because art and lore result in such parameters. All the suggestions in this thread came up at some point. Including that one, though it was marked as a joke. ^-^
Great. Now someone's going to make a version with turrets and RISC tech and partial wings and TSM and blackjack and roulette just to say "You didn't think of this did you?"
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Great. Now someone's going to make a version with turrets and RISC tech and partial wings and TSM and blackjack and roulette just to say "You didn't think of this did you?"
I rather see it on a whole new design. Truely. Newww tech on new designs make them more memorable like the Hammerhead.
I'm not going get my hopes up for a Republic built LAM. However, I'd like see medium or light Tripods appear in the RecGuides before their done.
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A 7,215 ton Lion could swallow a Rhino whole.
True, but a Cave Lion couldn't, except maybe for the Rhino BA.
Great. Now someone's going to make a version with turrets and RISC tech and partial wings and TSM and blackjack and roulette just to say "You didn't think of this did you?"
Years ago I made my own custom version with a partial wing, so we've got that one down.
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Off-hand RHS is one tech missing from BMM so i would not expect it to be featured in WYSIWYG variant.
I think RHS has already appeared on some of the designs. MASC has along with Supercharger, the rules dynamic of all 3 being the same its not a great leap to me.
If any Clan mech besides the Adder, considered half a Warhawk anyway, screams for RHS it is the original quad ERPPC design.
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I think RHS has already appeared on some of the designs. MASC has along with Supercharger, the rules dynamic of all 3 being the same its not a great leap to me.
No, it has not appeared in the RG series yet. Only TRO3145/3150, XTRORotS series, and RS3145NTNU.
Rules-wise, no it is not special but i'd i'll also note its in-universe rarity. Only the Federated Suns, Republic of the Sphere, Wolf Empire, Draconis Combine and Raven Alliance have used the tech. The FedSuns and RotS aside others have single use of RHS only: the Wolves have used it in the Skinwalker, an extremely rare experimental 'Mech; the Ravens use it on the Deimos E configuration, probably sourced from the FedSuns during their apparent alliance; the Draconis Combine has captured the Atlas III factories.
Not impossible to appear in an OmniMech, but i figure it is very unlikely. EDIT I figure that if the RG will feature a new FedSuns or RotS designs, those are more likely to feature the RHS.
And in the case of Warhawk, it is pretty useless. With quad PPCs, there's no weight nor space available, the RHS requires torso mount and 4 tons and 3 slots, unless you ditch the targeting computer which is the Warhawk's soul.
With quad ER large lasers (and a Streak-10 LRM launcher), there's just no point in in a RHS because you can cram in so many heat sinks you cover all the lasers and almost a missile launcher to boot. And you don't actually have space for a RHS anyway, because of the Targeting Computer.
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Is RHS in BMM? So far that’s the rubric
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Is RHS in BMM? So far that’s the rubric
It is not.
But BMM-only tech is not absolute, one of the new Marauder IIs uses Ballistic-Reinforced armor, not found in BMM.
I assume BMM-only tech is a strong guideline, that is deviated from if there's good enough reason. In this case, the BR armor has seen rather limited use before, and is good fit for a Kuritan high-end machine.
EDIT Huh, didn't note the BV for the Marauder II MAD-8K. 2.8k BV. For pure IS tech. Impressive. And despite not liking the Marauder II, i have to admit the specs are pretty impressive, wouldn't like to fight one.
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Is the Supercharger? I want to say further up the thread a TPTB said that for the most part the tech used would be in BMM with a few exceptions.
Empyrus, while I would like the quad ERLL Warhawk what I posited needing the RHS was a quad HLL armed Warhawk.
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Is the Supercharger? I want to say further up the thread a TPTB said that for the most part the tech used would be in BMM with a few exceptions.
Empyrus, while I would like the quad ERLL Warhawk what I posited needing the RHS was a quad HLL armed Warhawk.
Supercharger and MASC are both in BMM.
And... oh. OK, heavy lasers and RHS, that i can get. Not a bad idea, think the Republic Lament has a variant that does this. But space issue remains, the Warhawk has 6 and 2 torso spaces, and Targeting Computer for quad large-class lasers takes 4 slots...
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Ah I missed the BR armor. Objection withdrawn
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Ah I missed the BR armor. Objection withdrawn
No, it will be mostly the case- they just said their would be a few exceptions.
As far as crit spaces . . . I tested it in HMP but I cannot remember exactly- like I said to actually make it full weight you had to go with a Streak10- but it ended up working out. I will check it when I get home and send you the breakdown by PM.
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Educate me please.
What does the Radical Heat Sink? do?
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Educate me please.
What does the Radical Heat Sink? do?
Heat sinks with a built in coolant pod.
If you activate it, each heat sink dissipates one extra point of heat, but there is a chance of failure a la MASC
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And if it fails you take a engine crit.
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It makes the Deimos extra fun!!
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No, it will be mostly the case- they just said their would be a few exceptions.
As far as crit spaces . . . I tested it in HMP but I cannot remember exactly- like I said to actually make it full weight you had to go with a Streak10- but it ended up working out. I will check it when I get home and send you the breakdown by PM.
Sure, but I was thinking it was. I can see a few of the armors and other non-artillery advanced pieces making it in. TSEMP not so much
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And if it fails you take a engine crit.
No. You generate extra heat when firing weapons but your engine is unaffected by RHS.
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No, it will be mostly the case- they just said their would be a few exceptions.
As far as crit spaces . . . I tested it in HMP but I cannot remember exactly- like I said to actually make it full weight you had to go with a Streak10- but it ended up working out. I will check it when I get home and send you the breakdown by PM.
No crit spaces for RHS, tested that, not unless you omit the targeting computer. Even if you placed the TC on an arm, there would not be space for everything because heavy large lasers take 3 slots each. One exception: you place one laser to the torso and three to arms, RHS to torso, and targeting computer to an arm, but this would be such ugly and un-Warhawk-like config i wouldn't not want to see one. 2 ERLL and 2 HLL combo doesn't help any, lack of torso space.
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But BMM-only tech is not absolute, one of the new Marauder IIs uses Ballistic-Reinforced armor, not found in BMM.
Ballistic-Reinforced is in the BMM (p. 114).
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Oh right it’s TacOps it’s not in
I’ll just mark myself clueless and sit in the corner
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Ballistic-Reinforced is in the BMM (p. 114).
...
so it seems. Such a small entry i keep forgetting it lol
still wish reactive armor was in
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No. You generate extra heat when firing weapons but your engine is unaffected by RHS.
Sorry, I was thinking Supercharger.
Empyrus, like I said I will take a look but none of those DHS are fixed so they can be moved to the arms. The TC actually shrinks from the Prime with the weapons change, but its just a single ton & crit.
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Sorry, I was thinking Supercharger.
Empyrus, like I said I will take a look but none of those DHS are fixed so they can be moved to the arms. The TC actually shrinks from the Prime with the weapons change, but its just a single ton & crit.
The Warhawk has a lot of fixed DHS, 20 in the base chassis, of which 7 go outside the engine, one per leg, one in right torso, 4 in the left torso (leaving no slots there). Can't move them, can't make space for RHS.
This is IMO the bigges failing of the Warhawk chassis, it is well armored, nicely mobile, good amount of weapons but fixed heat sinks make fitting stuff difficult.
EDIT I think the new refit rules would allow tweaking this, but i would not expect those to apply to RG variants and configurations.
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refitting things lets out the omnismoke, iirc
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That’s been changed
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63036.0
The errata as mentioned. Basically you can change OmniMechs just like regular mechs, but it requires using the customization rules instead of just pod-swaps. And they remain OmniMechs after adjustment, albeit with changed stats depending on how you customized the Omni's chassis.
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Requires a Factory to do it & you loose a 1 full quality grade for sure, possibly 2, depending on the tech roll.
I'm thinking its not something I'd want to do.
If I can get access to a full on factory then I can probably get a new mech instead ;)
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No crit spaces for RHS, tested that, not unless you omit the targeting computer. Even if you placed the TC on an arm, there would not be space for everything because heavy large lasers take 3 slots each. One exception: you place one laser to the torso and three to arms, RHS to torso, and targeting computer to an arm, but this would be such ugly and un-Warhawk-like config i wouldn't not want to see one. 2 ERLL and 2 HLL combo doesn't help any, lack of torso space.
What is an ugly or un warhawk like design? I ask because to me the missile launcher should be in the torso but yet somehow that is wrong...so is the record sheet un warhawk like or is it the visual? (just note I do know what you really are saying but I just find it funny with the war hawk since it apparently is always visualized one way but is statted another much like the Orion and its SRM 4).
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What is an ugly or un warhawk like design? I ask because to me the missile launcher should be in the torso but yet somehow that is wrong...so is the record sheet un warhawk like or is it the visual? (just note I do know what you really are saying but I just find it funny with the war hawk since it apparently is always visualized one way but is statted another much like the Orion and its SRM 4).
I mean something like the Warhawk with its targeting computer located in an arm rather than right torso. Complete no go as far as I'm concerned.
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I still think that's still weak. I know that OmniPods potential could obsolete BattleMech if they were cheaper or the easy and speed changing the pods to set up u need as long its programmed into i guess chassis and balanced.
If i am understand this. Its now just refit with risks if changing the alt configuration or programming a new configuration? Or is this so to allow it to remain a OmniMech without being nerfed its stuck as standard BattleMech?
I only question this is if u read some of the older TRO with Clan OmniMechs, it mentioned older obsolete Configurations that didn't work out for the current ones listed in the book.
I actually expected TRO:Golden Century to have maybe one or more obsolete Configurations listed for the first Gen OmniMechs.
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I still think that's still weak. I know that OmniPods potential could obsolete BattleMech if they were cheaper or the easy and speed changing the pods to set up u need as long its programmed into i guess chassis and balanced.
If i am understand this. Its now just refit with risks if changing the alt configuration or programming a new configuration? Or is this so to allow it to remain a OmniMech without being nerfed its stuck as standard BattleMech?
I only question this is if u read some of the older TRO with Clan OmniMechs, it mentioned older obsolete Configurations that didn't work out for the current ones listed in the book.
I actually expected TRO:Golden Century to have maybe one or more obsolete Configurations listed for the first Gen OmniMechs.
The rule basically means you can change the MLs on Avatars for ERMLs, replace the BAP on Men Shens with ECM/Bloodhound/etc, or pull the fixed CASE on . . . Templars? without 'breaking' their OmniPod mounts/connections.
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A Warhawk/Masakari with an XL Gyro, 4 ER PPC's with capacitors, AES in the arms, Targeting computer and an LRM 10?
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Looks like Rec Guide, Volume 2 is partially up on the MUL.
Confusing stat: the new Ostscout 8J, produced on Robinson, only available to the Combine (who no longer holds Robinson!)
The clan version of the Ostscout, the 10R, is Inner Sphere Common! More Ostscout for everyone!
Hurray for the MUL being updated! Thanks team!
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A Warhawk/Masakari with an XL Gyro, 4 ER PPC's with capacitors, AES in the arms, Targeting computer and an LRM 10?
Might show up as someone's custom ride at some point, but we wouldn't see something like that get a record sheet as a standard configuration.
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A Warhawk/Masakari with an XL Gyro, 4 ER PPC's with capacitors, AES in the arms, Targeting computer and an LRM 10?
Can't mix TC and AES.
Also fan design thread.
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Confusing stat: the new Ostscout 8J, produced on Robinson, only available to the Combine (who no longer holds Robinson!)
I'm sure the Combine grabbed everything in production as they were leaving and sabotaged the factory. It will take time for the Fedsuns to get the factory running again and complete mechs out the door.
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The rule basically means you can change the MLs on Avatars for ERMLs, replace the BAP on Men Shens with ECM/Bloodhound/etc, or pull the fixed CASE on . . . Templars? without 'breaking' their OmniPod mounts/connections.
I'd love see refit on the Owens, to swap those bloody single heatsinks out of the bloody thing. Rather official than not. Thanks for the info.
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I'd love see refit on the Owens, to swap those bloody single heatsinks out of the bloody thing. Rather official than not. Thanks for the info.
he had a typo. it should be :
"The rule basically means you cann't change the MLs on Avatars for ERMLs, replace the BAP on Men Shens with ECM/Bloodhound/etc, or pull the fixed CASE on . . . Templars? without 'breaking' their OmniPod mounts/connections."
which is the balancing mechanism in the rules. if you start customizing the base chassis the Omni aspect stops working (presumably due to the base chassis hardware no longer matching the specs for the software in some way) and it becomes a standard mech as far as the rules are concerned.
if you want changes to the base chassis, you have to get the manufacturer to rework the design and production line to produce what is basically a new Omni-unit. like what the Republic did with their Bolla Omni-tanks, where the manufacturer post-Jihad was contracted to re-engineer and start manufacturing the Bolla with a built in C3 slave and a smaller BA bay instead of the C3i and large bay of the WoB model, which gave the re-engineered model more pod space as well.
so you can't customize or refit an Owens to use DHS, but you could get a manufacturer to build some "Owens II" with DHS. but that would effectively be designing a new mech.
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It's not a typo. The rules were errataed last year to explicitly state that you can alter an omnimech in one of the described ways without having it suddenly not be an omni.
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Class D refit now. Go nuts!
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Class D refit now. Go nuts!
Hmm...if I played a Clanner, I could make a Hellbringer just like I wanted.
:drool:
Ruger
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Anything that affects the base chassis is a Customization and falls under those rules. The Omnismoke is not let out and it remains an Omni, with the new stats. You could pull the two CT MLs from the Avatar and replace them with an ERLL; you just have less tonnage for podspace once your Customization is done. OmniMechs are just as customizeable as standard 'Mechs.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63036.0
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I'd love see refit on the Owens, to swap those bloody single heatsinks out of the bloody thing. Rather official than not. Thanks for the info.
Not canon yet, but in the right thread: DHS Owens variants (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=12134.msg288212#msg288212)
Cheers,
LCC
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Hey Folks: is it too early to point out that this week is MARAUDER WEEK! See you Friday! :thumbsup: :drool: ;D
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Hey Folks: is it too early to point out that this week is MARAUDER WEEK! See you Friday! :thumbsup: :drool: ;D
Hoping for one with AES so I can windmill some Stingers! >:D
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/631/811/4c5.gif)
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Hoping for one with AES so I can windmill some Stingers! >:D
I...what? I mean, what?
(deleted pic for bandwidth sake)
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Hey Folks: is it too early to point out that this week is MARAUDER WEEK! See you Friday! :thumbsup: :drool: ;D
Marauder madness and I get paid on Thursday and off from work on Friday. Perfect. 8) See ya there! :popcorn:
I...what? I mean, what?
Going to second that. ???
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It's probably one of the most ridiculous scenes from the original series of Macross.
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Though most of us probably saw it first as part of Robotech.
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Hoping for one with AES so I can windmill some Stingers! >:D
Is it weird that I want a ten hour video of that looped with the robotech theme playing?
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Is it weird that I want a ten hour video of that looped with the robotech theme playing?
Yes. It should be Yakity Sax instead.
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It's probably one of the most ridiculous scenes from the original series of Macross.
Which is saying something.
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Which is saying something.
Indeed.
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A new look for a new age!
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/631/795/c96.gif)
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A new look for a new age!
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/631/795/c96.gif)
:toofunny:
This is MADness!
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A new look for a new age!
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/631/795/c96.gif)
I sense a new physical attack quirk:"windmill punch"
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A new look for a new age!
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/631/795/c96.gif)
Wow, good work Weirdo! :thumbsup:
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A new look for a new age!
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/631/795/c96.gif)
I have never felt this forum's lack of an upvote button more profoundly than this moment.
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A new look for a new age!
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/631/795/c96.gif)
Seyla. ;D
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A new look for a new age!
BattleMaster being pounded by Marauder image deleted to save bandwidth
Am I the only one hearing steel drum music when they look at this image?
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Nope.
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After all this, if there isn't a windmill punching Easter egg in the Marauder's write up we're all going to be dissapointed.
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What about a 3SW memorable pilot? Dawn 'Lancer' Keyote? Her PPCs broke down after repeated firing (in bad repair) which left her to wail on her opponent with the weapon pods.
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Hot take: BattleTech is better when it's not a collection of performative in-jokes.
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*looks up from the House Marik book*
Yes, Minister.
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but in-jokes are fun too...
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That scene isn't as bad as the Valkyrie pilot lighting up the Zentraedi's warrior cigarette with his autocannon...
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A new look for a new age!
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/631/795/c96.gif)
Is this what happens in HBS: Battletech if I load up a Marauder's arms with black market actuators?! :D
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A new look for a new age!
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/631/795/c96.gif)
Beer out the nose. Thanks Weirdo. :toofunny: :beer:
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So are you about 4 hours from Marauder induced nirvana, or what!?
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So are you about 4 hours from Marauder induced nirvana, or what!?
Would you believe they added more Marauders (since the last time I said there were too many Marauders)?
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Would you believe they added more Marauders (since the last time I said there were too many Marauders)?
I'm sure a few more could still be shoehorned in. :D
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This will see the debut of the Marauder II IIC 2
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Speaking of the Marauder II: can someone with more TT experience than me explain why it would be ok to put a XL gyro on a 100 ton Marauder II MAD-10D? Is 50% more gyro critical the wrong way to think about that design?
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We have Marauder Battle Armor, we have variants in name and relation of the Marauder Heavy and Assaults. All we need Medium, Light and Superheavy we'll have them all (except for the LAM, CGL burn down buildings to avoid that)
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Speaking of the Marauder II: can someone with more TT experience than me explain why it would be ok to put a XL gyro on a 100 ton Marauder II MAD-10D? Is 50% more gyro critical the wrong way to think about that design?
They wanted to get that weapons load moving that fast, protected by that much armor, and it looks like that would have been completely impossible without the XL Gyro or another compromise they found unacceptable.
Note that the role listed on the sheet is Skirmisher, not Brawler or Juggernaut. This thing is built to use that speed to stay at a bit of a distance, not charge into the think of things and just tank every shot aimed at it. Just because it's as big as an Atlas doesn't mean it's required to fight like one.
Presumably they felt that the combination of high maneuverability and max armor would be sufficient for it to do its job and then get out before it takes too much center torso damage.
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It is a bit of a weird choice since the way things skew is that lights have plenty of crits (and thus IMO 'modern' lights should mount XL Gyro for higher speeds/payload) and gladly pay the trade off of crits for available tonnage . . .
. . . and assaults usually have the tonnage, but not the crit availability. Part of the reason why the SFE assaults are attractive is b/c there is less engine weight difference between SFE/XL and some designs require those 4/6 crits.
BUT . . . the Marauder II 10D is using the weight to play (really) fat heavy. Without the XL gyro it would never get the 4/6/4 movement profile with the same weapons load. Part of the reason it can get away with it is that the design uses Endo-Comp rather than straight IS EndoS, so the combo XL Gyro & EC internal frees up the weight without sacrificing armor or weapons.
Considering that the design can put out 30 points of damage w/o heat concerns, and even its 'shorter' ranged weapons still reach out to 9 hexes it gives the pilot the ability to stay away while still fighting. To me this does not go in formations with older Marauder IIs, Atlas, Sagittaire or other 3/5 Davion Assault Guard formations. This is for the lance or company commander of a heavy formation, allowing you to sneak in the armor of a assault with a faster moving formation.
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I wonder what we'll see this evening, the Marauder for sure but they've been teasing us with the 'dangerous' Falcon mech which i'm guessing is an Omni-Shrike, and the amarok and other things!
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Still holding out for a Subrauder...
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I wonder what we'll see this evening, the Marauder for sure but they've been teasing us with the 'dangerous' Falcon mech which i'm guessing is an Omni-Shrike, and the amarok and other things!
The Jade Phoenix? Sort of been told it will be in the last one- as in #22- which could be misdirection but its not like it was Kit saying that sort of thing.
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Still holding out for a Subrauder...
A Submarauder?
(https://toys.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2007/10/transformers-g1-0747_1191634266.jpg)
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I have no idea what that is, but I'm intrigued and horrified in equal measure.
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It's a Transformers Pretender toy.
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I think I'd prefer my old Starscream original from the 80's. That thing above looks like a bath toy painted by my four year old daughter.
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I thought it was the new sea fox battle armor, the diamond shark.
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Its got to piss off the Sea Foxes that the Suns make Sea Fox battle armor. :D
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I thought it was the new sea fox battle armor, the diamond shark.
Yup, this
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I have no idea what that is, but I'm intrigued and horrified in equal measure.
Obviously the Clan Diamond Shark Baby Shark BA.
The vibrosword clearly goes "Time to hunt, DOO DOO DOO DOO DOO DOO"
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Obviously the Clan Diamond Shark Baby Shark BA.
The vibrosword clearly goes "Time to hunt, DOO DOO DOO DOO DOO DOO"
Really?
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Obviously the Clan Diamond Shark Baby Shark BA.
The vibrosword clearly goes "Time to hunt, DOO DOO DOO DOO DOO DOO"
I can see it in the next big Kickstarter "after the success of our Urbanmech Plushy, we've made a Sea Fox Bath toy that sings Baby Shark for your kids while they bathe!"
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I think I'd prefer my old Starscream original from the 80's. That thing above looks like a bath toy painted by my four year old daughter.
The Pretender line was one of the last of the G1 toylines. The gimmick was an inner robot mode with a simplistic transformation that came with an organic-looking ouer shell that it could hide in to "pretend" it wasn't a robot. It wasn't a very popular change.
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I think my F5 button is crying out for mercy. When will the heavens respond?
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I thought it was the new sea fox battle armor, the diamond shark.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/390/ohyou.jpg)
Obviously the Clan Diamond Shark Baby Shark BA.
The vibrosword clearly goes "Time to hunt, DOO DOO DOO DOO DOO DOO"
(https://www.askideas.com/media/39/You-Come-To-The-Right-Neighborhood-Funny-Shark-Meme-Image.jpg)
I think my F5 button is crying out for mercy. When will the heavens respond?
I know, right?
We have Marauder Battle Armor, we have variants in name and relation of the Marauder Heavy and Assaults. All we need Medium, Light and Superheavy we'll have them all (except for the LAM, CGL burn down buildings to avoid that)
I like the Marauder BA so much in principle that, besides wanting to see higher availability for, say, the Marian's nerdy neighbors, I want to see more battlearmor mini-Mechs based on bigger BattleMechs.
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All I remember was you getting excited over my throwing out the Marauder BA was coming as a plushie. It was a joke . . .
. . . and then we get the Urbanmech plushie.
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More Marauder
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Martin_B-26G_in_Dayton.jpg/1280px-Martin_B-26G_in_Dayton.jpg)
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Just got the PDF and man oh man, that Marauder IIC, truly a badass beauty! Plus the IIC 9 is yet another Video Game homage, this time to the first Demo version of Mechwarrior 2 (called Mechwarrior 2: The Clans)
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TOC-
Cricket
Marauder- the 11D, 2T (improved 2R), 7R/C
Marauder IIC
Linebacker
Raven
Cataphract
Nightstar
well . . . Cricket is knew and a humanoid but . . . rest were chicken legs, and I had 2 others besides the obvious Marauder IIC in the volume.
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So for the Marauder . . .
Yeah, that -2T is something I have wanted to table play for a while. Really happy to see it.
7M . . . glass hammer? The armor on that thing is way low and a bit surprising since it could use LFF instead of Std armor.
. . . is the Marauder C up to the full weight now? AND the RS has a problem- its IS internal Structure but it shows CASE?
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The Linebacker T looks like a pretty good raider (not that the Clans do much raiding).
The Linebacker I needs more machine guns.
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Linebacker I.
For when you need to kill several hundred people in one salvo. :o
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Another name drop for the Black Marauder. Sure would be nice to be able to read those stories...
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Well between the MAD-10D Marauder II, the MAD-11D Marauder, and the NSR-10D Nightstar, I'm apparently being forced at accept XL Gyros into my life for the foreseeable future.
I see many tears from golden BB crit rolls in my future! (But also a metric crap ton of firepower in my comps as well)
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Are Rec Guides just going to be Mechs or are they at some point do other things like battlesuit, tanks, and aerospace?
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Are Rec Guides just going to be Mechs or are they at some point do other things like battlesuit, tanks, and aerospace?
'Mechs and more 'Mechs.
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I'm really liking the Marauder IIC 10. Up close you can jump and fire everything but the PPC and not overheat.
And it jumps like a medium 'Mech! :thumbsup:
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I'm really liking the Marauder IIC 10. Up close you can jump and fire everything but the PPC and not overheat.
And it jumps like a medium 'Mech! :thumbsup:
I just want to know if the cabin cooler is to the left or the right of the pilot, and is it loaded with gouda or fontina?
The Red Hunter Marauder looks very interesting- 4/6(8), Snubs with capacitors, Clan ERML, and a Clan UAC/10. Not sure about the Ballistic-Reinforced armor, but ok.
The BH3138 is just a MAD-5S C?
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Not sure about the Ballistic-Reinforced armor, but ok.
ballistic and missile weapons do half damage. No in-game drawback.
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I just want to know if the cabin cooler is to the left or the right of the pilot, and is it loaded with gouda or fontina?
Limburger surat!
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The one armor choice in this volume I'm not sold on is reflective on a 'Mech as slow as the Cataphract.
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Is it a Capellan design?
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Republic.
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Republic.
Although the Confederation now holds Tikonov so....
Like the new Raven as well.
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Coolant pod is a one shot, one use item, right?
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Is it a Capellan design?
Not really sure based on the fluff . . . its built on Tikonov, takes off a Liao design, but it talks about the Republic starting it up . . . but Tikonov went out of their hands pretty quick. Heck Aaron Sandoval should have been having a few show up in his ranks.
As far as Ballistic-Reinforced, totally get that Adrian . . . really it was one of the FM3145 armors that did not see widespread use it seems until this RecGuide. Happy to see it appear, but it was more that this was a brawler rather than a ranged fighter- IE, it will be around more energy weapons. BalRef armor for something like a small AC equipped Rifleman or Archer makes sense because at 16+ hexes you are looking at most weapons that can reach that far are LRMs, ELRMs, ATMs, Gauss Rifles, Light Gauss, Heavy Gauss, AC/2, AC/5, LB-2X, LB-5X, UAC/2, UAC/5, & LAC/2 vs ERPPCs, PPCs, LPPC, HPPC, cLPL & ERLL.
It does make a lot of sense for something like the Roweena that could be deployed to face FedSuns dakka love as a skirmisher.
It REALLY should have appeared as a tank armor- LBX pellets would get no damage following Ferro-Lam rulings, and thus no crit change even.
New Raven is GREAT, its got the speed to perform now.
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But it also shrugs off those same weapons/units as it closes in to shorter range.
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Having done some more thinking, did we know that the Wolf Empire was using large numbers of Crossbows?
They make sense for starting IS production (no Clantech aside from the Omni bits, should be easy to manufacture), but I don't think we'd heard about it.
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It was the Cricket's armaments that were baffling. 3 Pulse lasers or 6 Medium Lasers would work much better for them rather than the Light PPCs. They have the speed and armor to close, but no weapons to use when they get there. (if you don't count bronco-busting as a weapon)
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The Wolves held Arcturus for a bit, which produced the IS Crossbow. Otherwise....I would've suspected the Ravens of bringing it back if anyone were to. I'm not complaining though.
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The one armor choice in this volume I'm not sold on is reflective on a 'Mech as slow as the Cataphract.
Agreed--on a heavy that can't control or keep the range open, that armor seems like a gamble. You'd hate to take a double damage kick or punch in that thing.
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It was the Cricket's armaments that were baffling. 3 Pulse lasers or 6 Medium Lasers would work much better for them rather than the Light PPCs. They have the speed and armor to close, but no weapons to use when they get there. (if you don't count bronco-busting as a weapon)
It's supposed to use that speed to keep it's distance. The bronco-busting indecent was an extreme case.
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It REALLY should have appeared as a tank armor- LBX pellets would get no damage following Ferro-Lam rulings, and thus no crit change even.
This is not true; damage is reduced to a minimum of one. I asked a question about exactly that when the armor came out in FM3145 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=36098.msg838929#msg838929) and got an answer.
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The Linebacker is fantastic, sad that these won't be up until November, but such a great product deserves time to be even better.
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The very first metal Battletech miniature I owned was a Marauder IIC and that art really brings back memories.
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Loved the MAD-2T. Sad it only has one ton of ammo.
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finally, a raven that goes the right speed.
what a ridiculous number of marauders. i wasn't expecting the custom rides to push it up to fifteen.
the nightstar gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling
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There's a new Marik Marauder! :thumbsup:
There's a new Red Hunter?!? :o
Holy... Best MAD is now Best COMMAND MAD!! :excited:
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--eN41O0H1--/krqh8jpuwecydo1t3njk.jpg)
So much MAD!
(https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1470530783252.gif)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/f96f1e39fc8bca5fb0dcf2aa5d97d84f/tumblr_inline_nvez6bFaDo1tr68ji_500.gif)
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Oh snap, Marik, I play those guys.... It's a good one too.
Also.... the Hyper-Extending quirk really bothers me. It should be called Hyper-mobile actuators. ;D
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(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BrokenTiredCockatoo-size_restricted.gif)
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The Cataphract is... well, let's put it this way: The Republic had Earthwerks lines that were producing a wonderful stealth-armored sniper 'Mech. And they replaced it with this thing? Seriously?
Reflective armor is best in mobile designs that are vulnerable to pulse lasers, me thinks, not in the likes of the Cataphract even if energy weapons are common.
No CASE II. SFE and XL gyro is a weird combination. Secondary armament is frankly terrible though at least VSPLs are ridiculously cheap in BV.
This is usable, to be sure. But i'd rather have just about any other Cataphract.
Mixed feelings about the new Raven as well. On one hand, fast iNarc platform is a wonderful thing. On the other hand, i'm not too happy about losing the active probe (lesser problem because stealth armor reduces its usability) and i really don't like one-shot SRM-2s.
I would've preferred standard Guardian ECM and a bit less speed to use a proper SRM-6 instead.
The new Nightstar is amusing.
The Marauder II lineart is great.
The Marauder 2T is wonderful, basically perfection as i see it. Seems i need to a Taurian unit at some point...
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Haha,
Well for them to be hyper-extending actuators, the Marauder would have to be able to shoot behind its back by its arms going under it and back. If it was hyper-flexion actuators then it would shoot behind it's back by the arms going up and over it. Assuming actuators have some kind of normal range of motion.
Though your image is extending as well. haha.
Oh well. It's a misnomer. Those are fun. I was going to post an animated gif of hyper-extension but it's all really grisly sports people receiving terrible injuries or static images.
The art is great. Another great product.
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I don't like the Cricket at all, but in a good way. I think it's a bad design, but in an absolutely sensible way in-universe. I have never found ballistic weapons to be a big threat to light designs, except potentially for LB-Xs, which don't care about reinforced armor. SRMs sometimes do stuff, but in that case it'd be way better with reactive armor. We don't have enough Reactive lights.
But, not every design has to be a winner, and it makes total sense for the Combine to make. Everyone makes missteps with new tech.
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Mixed feelings about the new Raven as well. On one hand, fast iNarc platform is a wonderful thing. On the other hand, i'm not too happy about losing the active probe (lesser problem because stealth armor reduces its usability) and i really don't like one-shot SRM-2s.
I would've preferred standard Guardian ECM and a bit less speed to use a proper SRM-6 instead.
The new Nightstar is amusing.
The Marauder 2T is wonderful, basically perfection as i see it. Seems i need to a Taurian unit at some point...
The Raven is what you see . . . and no, that is a better speed- just acceptable in 3150- anything else would just repeat the sitting duck of 3050s. I do not mind the iOS launchers for the simple reason . . . you can load one with Inferno, one with ARAD, and one with Std rounds. You could not get away with 3 types of ammo on the design. It sensibly puts the ammo storage in the place it will work best- the iNARC.
The Nightstar is amusing? 36 damage possible at 25 hexes, 41 at 23 hexes . . . amusing?
IIRC the Taurians someone told me the Taurians were selling Marauders on the open market after the Jihad- starting off with the -2R they put into production.
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And now that I am home, I opened up HMP . . .
And YES! The Marauder C has 3 more heat sinks than the old FASA sheets. Which means we might see the TBolt, Atlas and others updated the same way fill up the tonnage with SHS!
Makes the TBolt C very useful as a Invasion garrison machine . . .
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The Nightstar is amusing? 36 damage possible at 25 hexes, 41 at 23 hexes . . . amusing?
Amusing, because it mixes light Gauss rifles and Clan ER lasers. That's like the best-worst weapon combo.
Amusing, because i like the matching range brackets, off-hand the only other weapon that matches those is the IS Ultra-2.
A pity it is slow.
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A pity it is slow.
Does the speed really matter when it can reach out and touch something for 36 damage at 25 hexes? It doesn't even have to wait for decent numbers on the LGRs, since it's got all that ammo.
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Amusing, because it mixes light Gauss rifles and Clan ER lasers. That's like the best-worst weapon combo.
Yes this. They give us such a beautiful mess, we have to right to demand it be good
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Does the speed really matter when it can reach out and touch something for 36 damage at 25 hexes? It doesn't even have to wait for decent numbers on the LGRs, since it's got all that ammo.
Mostly a preference thing. It probably doesn't need the extra speed, i just prefer 4/6 assaults, especially if they're using XL engines and gyros like this thing does.
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Light Gauss Rifles are good, actually, and anyone who disagrees thinks Medium Range is only 14 hexes.
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LGRs are good in certain places, like in anything that uses AC/10 and could do with an upgrade. In this Nightstar that uses bunch of Clan-tech... uh, why not just go with Clan Gauss rifle? LGRs do have excellent medium range but in an assault 'Mech i'd prefer more massive firepower Gauss rifles offer.
But fortunately the end result is amusing even if it not stellar killing machine.
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Ammo efficiency is also nice. Realistically a Clan Gauss is 14 tons, while a Light Gauss is 13.
There was also some chatter earlier in the thread that there are limitations to equipment based on where designs were produced. Not everyone can make Clan Gauss, even if they can make Clan energy weapons.
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What's the fascination with Medium X-pulse laser? They are entirely too many of them on various record sheets in this PDF.
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range
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In this Nightstar that uses bunch of Clan-tech... uh, why not just go with Clan Gauss rifle?
There was also some chatter earlier in the thread that there are limitations to equipment based on where designs were produced. Not everyone can make Clan Gauss, even if they can make Clan energy weapons.
Davion has been making Clan ER Large Lasers. Black Knight. Vulpes.
And clan ER PPCs. Templar III, Black Knight again.
I'm not aware of any instance of them making Clan Gauss Rifles.
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What's the fascination with Medium X-pulse laser? They are entirely too many of them on various record sheets in this PDF.
They're good without being Clantech good. In 80% of cases I'd rather have them than regular MPLs in a DA mech.
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I thought it was interesting that Nightstar now has same sort mech fist the unseen Ostscout had.
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69931.0;attach=59511)
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Ammo efficiency is also nice. Realistically a Clan Gauss is 14 tons, while a Light Gauss is 13.
There was also some chatter earlier in the thread that there are limitations to equipment based on where designs were produced. Not everyone can make Clan Gauss, even if they can make Clan energy weapons.
I grant the ammo efficiency thing but for most cases 16 shots per gun is enough, which the Nightstar would allow. With some minor modifications, it could be increased even.
As for the "who has them", the Sea Foxes are selling... If you go heavily for Clan-spec weapons on an assault platform, i think buying some Clan-spec Gauss rifles to equip them is reasonable. But i suppose in this case the unit is stuff GM can either manufacture themselves or obtain easily.
What's the fascination with Medium X-pulse laser? They are entirely too many of them on various record sheets in this PDF.
I'll quote BMM:
"The ‘X’ makes it sound cool."
On serious note, it is a mixture of new-techitis and that they are an improvement over standard pulse laser. And most Marauders are build on very traditional lines, with two weapons to an arm max (even most Project Phoenix Marauders did this).
Besides, i seem to recall people often seem to complain or dislike medium pulse lasers on the account of their short range, not an issue with the X-types...
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In this Nightstar that uses bunch of Clan-tech... uh, why not just go with Clan Gauss rifle?
As is, with no other modifications? The Gauss Rifles wouldn't fit. They take up 6 crits vs 5, and the Nightstar only has 1 free crit.
And with that context in mind, the Light Gauss isn't a half-bad compromise. It has short and long range bands that match up with the cERLL, making this Nightstar a superb sniper that's able to outrange nearly everything on the table save ELRM boats.
That said, if the designers weren't restricted to BMM tech, then fitting a Radical Heat Sink onto the design would be rather straightforward and stellar.
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That Linebacker I is interesting. Like the recent Loki, it gives the Wolves a heavy design with the Scout role. Also, this may be one of the few mechs that can actually hurt an infantry platoon taking cover inside a building, without entering the building itself or lighting it on fire.
Granted there won't be much of a Medium or smaller building left after getting hit by twenty machine guns, but even if it's still standing, the platoon that withdraws from their soon-to-collapse cover is now crippled, as opposed to one that has only taken a couple casualties.
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As is, with no other modifications? The Gauss Rifles wouldn't fit. They take up 6 crits vs 5, and the Nightstar only has 1 free crit.
With other mods, need to move the coolant pods or remove them, adjust stuff.
That said, if the designers weren't restricted to BMM tech, then fitting a Radical Heat Sink onto the design would be rather straightforward and stellar.
Honestly, this thing not using the RHS is really weird, given that it is a FedSuns creation and this kind of high-end assault is an excellent place for the tech.
Really hope future designs won't be so restricted. As much as i like BMM, it made some really annoying omissions and weird inclusions (Rifle Cannons, really?).
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With other mods, need to move the coolant pods or remove them, adjust stuff.Honestly, this thing not using the RHS is really weird, given that it is a FedSuns creation and this kind of high-end assault is an excellent place for the tech.
Agreed. After seeing it on the Atlas III and the Marauder 9D it seemed like a glaring omission to me when I saw the coolant pods on the new Nightstar. That being said; maybe the person who designed the mech really wanted that weapon and engine layout, and couldn’t come up with the extra 2 tons for the RHS system. After all, they couldn’t fit a regular gyro, so they were scraping for tonnage somewhere.
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Remove coolant pods and two heat sinks. Or just one heat sink and swap the pulse laser for an ER laser.
I highly doubt options weren't explored, more likely "BMM-tech-only" principle is culprit.
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Davion has been making Clan ER Large Lasers. Black Knight. Vulpes.
And clan ER PPCs. Templar III, Black Knight again.
I'm not aware of any instance of them making Clan Gauss Rifles.
While they seem to be making Clan ERPPCs... Black Knight is a poor example. That's an older model ERPPC, seems to be common on stuff made by Clan Sea Fox or explicitly built using Sea Fox imported parts.
The cERPPCs we know they are making are Exostar Pinnacles.
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Cricket - really wish it could have found the weight for that last jump jet. I'd almost junk the masc for it. It's a bug for the 3150s, sure enough. But I want a serious light to appear in a rec guide, not more bugs or redundant clan lights.
Raven - Finally, the iNarc mech we've needed for twenty-odd years.
Linebacker T - Good if you think the clans are capable of learning over the course of a century, trash if you think they're all still scream-and-leap duelists.
Cataphract - not the first cataphract I'd reach for, but not definitely has it's place - in the nightmares of people who love flashbulbs.
Marauder -5D. Remembers the days when a streak 2 was an I-Win button against single heat sinks.
Other marauders - started blending together, honestly. I'll have to look again later.
X-Pulse - Not as good as the vanilla medium if you're fighting heavies, superior to that venerable if you're fighting lights or fast mediums. I've got a soft spot for pulse weapons and a sparring partner who likes fast mechs, and I read way to much x-men as a kid. Give me the new toy.
Marauder IIC 10 - might just beat the hellstar for my 'scariest canon mech'
Nightstar - Goes from sniper (slow) to extreme specialist sniper (slow.) I can think of uses, even if the cost is a little steep and it's vulnerable to equal BV of fast mechs.
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If "max armored 30 tonner with multiple Light PPCs" is your definition of a bug I'd love to see whatever Stingers, Wasps, and Locusts exists in your beautiful alternate reality.
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The original Nightstar was 3/5 too . . . it is only the 9FC that got up to 4/6.
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locust 6m, 5m2
Wasp 3a
Stinger 6s
Cricket is good, but 2 five point hits (range 18) and speed within reach of succession wars mechs don't make it A-list light like the Talon.
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Ammo efficiency is also nice. Realistically a Clan Gauss is 14 tons, while a Light Gauss is 13.
There was also some chatter earlier in the thread that there are limitations to equipment based on where designs were produced. Not everyone can make Clan Gauss, even if they can make Clan energy weapons.
I asked after Rec Guide 2 why the Zeus has all clan weapons except for the gauss rifle and the reason given is because clan weapons aren't all available across the Inner Sphere. The LC and now the FS appear to not be able to produce clan gauss rifles. I'm fine with that after seeing the FS has the ability to produce clan ER PPCs and ERLLs. The MAD-11D is brutal. I really dig this Nightstar too. It's heat is a little unbalanced though to coolant pods make that able to be pushed. The range bracketing on this mech makes me silly though. cERLLs and LGRs have been waiting for this moment.
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X-Pulse - Not as good as the vanilla medium if you're fighting heavies,
Outside heat, i don't see how medium X-pulse laser isn't as good as stock medium, it hits more accurately AND 20% harder. While larger 'Mechs tend to be easier to hit, extra to-hit is still good, if only because it gives the user more freedom to move fast.
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Outside heat, i don't see how medium X-pulse laser isn't as good as stock medium, it hits more accurately AND 20% harder. While larger 'Mechs tend to be easier to hit, extra to-hit is still good, if only because it gives the user more freedom to move fast.
tonnage - double the weight, only 20% more damage. 6 damage vs 10. Same as the argument against the normal pulse laser, just the range is decent.
edit - as I said, I'll take the x-pulse, but on a pure damage/ton bias the medium laser is the original standard.
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With regards to the Cricket entry and the prototype's run in with a Republic Legionnaire (coupled with the Dragon's Fury Amaterasu independent company tradition of only accepting female warriors) it's now my headcanon that it was an Ojou-Laugh.
Whether the hand gesture was performed before the Cricket jumped away on the other hand, is still up in the air.
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The Marauder IIC 10 is the right combination of stupid and terrifying. I love it.
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Another thing in this book: The Timber Wolf is finally an official member of the Marauder family! Sure, people have been assuming all this time due to the visual resemblance and the Inner Sphere reporting name, but until now, it's never been actually spelled out in canon!
Marauder Madness collections are gonna get a lot bigger... :)
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If "max armored 30 tonner with multiple Light PPCs" is your definition of a bug I'd love to see whatever Stingers, Wasps, and Locusts exists in your beautiful alternate reality.
Max-armored with an XXL engine and composite internals and a small cockpit. It's got a hard shell, but it's remarkably vulnerable once its armor gives way.
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I'm assuming we have enough Marauders to drive a different one each day of the month now?
And great job on Volume 6 to all involved! 8)
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I'm assuming we have enough Marauders to drive a different one each day of the month now?
Yes, without even touching the II or IIC.
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This is a fabulous Rec Guide. Way to send the first cycle off in style.
The MAD IIC art is a thing of beauty. It's going to drive me to spend unplanned money in Wave Two.
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That Linebacker I is interesting. Like the recent Loki, it gives the Wolves a heavy design with the Scout role. Also, this may be one of the few mechs that can actually hurt an infantry platoon taking cover inside a building, without entering the building itself or lighting it on fire.
Granted there won't be much of a Medium or smaller building left after getting hit by twenty machine guns, but even if it's still standing, the platoon that withdraws from their soon-to-collapse cover is now crippled, as opposed to one that has only taken a couple casualties.
The Linebacker I looks like an attempt to pod mount the weapons from a pair of Piranhas onto a Linebacker :D
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What makes you think they didn't?
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The Linebacker I looks like an attempt to pod mount the weapons from a pair of Piranhas onto a Linebacker D
It is still 40 points of MGs. Or an LB20-X worth of cluster. On a Mech moving 12 hexes.
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It is still 40 points of MGs. Or an LB20-X worth of cluster. On a Mech moving 12 hexes.
When you put it like that :D
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It is still 40 points of MGs. Or an LB20-X worth of cluster. On a Mech moving 12 hexes.
Oh, he isn't complaining. One of his favorite 'Mech configs is a Loki with an Ultra/20 and as many MGs as he can fit.
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Is the Marauder IIC 9 referencing something? It's described as an 'ancient' variant
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Is the Marauder IIC 9 referencing something? It's described as an 'ancient' variant
Well the 8 is an old (by canon) mech, it has no new equipment, but wasn’t introduced in universe till the Jihad. It’s a project Phoenix mech, so it’s absence because of the law suit was explained away in universe that it just never saw the light of day when the invaders came. I assume the jihad time frame the law suit had cleared up so this “new” variant had appeared out of no where.
So long story short yes, 8 and 9 a44 PP retcons.
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Oh, he isn't complaining. One of his favorite 'Mech configs is a Loki with an Ultra/20 and as many MGs as he can fit.
LB-20x and LMGs. The extra reach of the LMGs helps a lot in actually connecting.
What makes you think they didn't?
I like to imagine that the MG pods are shaped like a pair of Piranha torsos protruding from the Linebacker's back... and referred to as Left Shark and Right Shark. ^-^
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Mostly happy with this Rec Guide too. But very confused that the artist who did the Nightstar chose an equally bad stance to show it in as the original artwork. Would have preferred a stance where you can actually see the mech as a whole and not just from down below.
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New Marauder IIC art: Wonderful. Ignore the haters.
New Marauder IIC 10: Sweet Kerensky's bald spot I want that so bad in Capellan hands...it's the perfect 'Mech.
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Would have preferred a stance where you can actually see the mech as a whole and not just from down below.
I was hoping to see that as well. :(
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Guess I am the only one excited about a 'full' weight Marauder C heralding a retcon of those old sheets- which also makes them more useful for Invasion era garrisons.
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Is the Marauder IIC 9 referencing something? It's described as an 'ancient' variant
It was a variant that was created for Mechwarrior 2.
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New Marauder IIC 10: Sweet Kerensky's bald spot I want that so bad in Capellan hands...it's the perfect 'Mech.
I'm sure the local Fox merchants will be happy to supply, for the right price.
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It was a variant that was created for Mechwarrior 2.
Didn't see it till now, good catch!
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Someone else pointed it out a couple pages ago. Wouldn't have noticed if they hadn't.
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Just got the PDF and man oh man, that Marauder IIC, truly a badass beauty! Plus the IIC 9 is yet another Video Game homage, this time to the first Demo version of Mechwarrior 2 (called Mechwarrior 2: The Clans)
Here we go. So I can give credit where it's due.
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They have up through vol 3 on the MUL now
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They have up through vol 3 on the MUL now
Yep! Nice to see faction availability for all the units. No new art for the Bushwacker yet last I checked, I know it’s probably low priority for the MUL team.
Speaking of which, anyone know who to buzz about applying to be a part of the MUL team? I’d like to contribute to the hobby in some fashion.
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Trial by combat. Nckestral chooses the vegetable
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I'm surprised we didn't get at least one Kurita Marauder. They never got a Phoenix variant despite Independence producing the 5D on Quintin. Apparently they kept building 5Ds right up to when the WoB captured the plant in the Jihad, then retooled the line to produce the 9W.
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Looking at the Nightstar made me think of the WoBs Vanquisher. Maybe the Suns are feeling reminiscent of other New Avalon occupations.
Cheers,
LCC
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I'm surprised we didn't get at least one Kurita Marauder. They never got a Phoenix variant despite Independence producing the 5D on Quintin. Apparently they kept building 5Ds right up to when the WoB captured the plant in the Jihad, then retooled the line to produce the 9W.
If it ain't imperfect, don't fix it, and all that...
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At least rip out the SRM 2 for a C3 slave or something.
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LIES!!! Ze Missiles, Zey Do Zomethink! >:(
It should be noted that the only variant of Perfect MAD is the Command Perfect, and even though it adds a Command Console in place of The Missiles, it has the exact same BV, implying that it is no more perfect than Perfect MAD. They are equally Perfect.
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So what would you prefer to field: Marauder 9D or 11D? The RHS with the Clan Er Larges on the 9D or the Clan ER Peeps with CASE II on the 11D?
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So what would you prefer to field: Marauder 9D or 11D? The RHS with the Clan Er Larges on the 9D or the Clan ER Peeps with CASE II on the 11D?
MAD-2T or Marauder C.
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I think i prefer the 9D, i like Clan ER large lasers and it has better point defenses, and RHS to use everything at once. But i'm inclined to pick something else if i can.
Of the RG Marauders, i like the -2T most. Very vanilla, has autocannon, practical, simple.
The Red Hunter Marauder is also cool. Has some flaws like i question the supercharger in 4/6 chassis, and could do with additional cooling but otherwise, interesting. Also has autocannon.
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Marauder 2T is Best Girl.
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The Cricket is a weird mech. I don't know to feel about it other then a raise eyebrow and confusion.
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That’s how people generally react to me so I relate to it strongly
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Well, we have a Locust, a Grasshopper, and now a Cricket. None of which resemble each other that much.
I look forward to the Katydid, which will probably an assault class missile boat.
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Marauder 2T is Best Girl.
i was surprised at how impressed i was with the -2T. a nice solid upgrade to a reliable design. the LBX adds a nice bit of flexibility to it.. can do critseeking after the ERPPC's opened up the armor, and allows you to do some anti-aircraft and anti-WiGE work without having to remember to carry Flak ammo ahead of time.
and i gotta say the -5D-DC is attractive.. the streak2 was always a weird part of the otherwise pretty decent -5D, and dropping it for the advantages of a Command Console is a pretty good gain.
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I look forward to the Katydid, which will probably an assault class missile boat.
And the pilots will say . . . 'let me sing you the song of my people, the song of fire support' *wooosh*
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the streak2 was always a weird part of the otherwise pretty decent -5D, and dropping it for the advantages of a Command Console is a pretty good gain.
The streak two is an artifact of edition changes, I think. It was there to launch old-rules infernoes.
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That and because FASA tried to avoid optimizing designs and included random flaws in pretty much everything.
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Streaks were shiny and new, obviously they had to show them off!
(at random, on machines where they didn't really belong)
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It's like a cicada. The real bug, not the mech.
It's got a rigid exoskeleton.
The insides are all gooey.
It's rather small.
It can annoy the crap out of you from rather far away.
It's a bug.
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Another thing on the Streak-2s is that at the time TR3050 was initially published, they could use Inferno rounds, just like the standard SRM-2. The ability to use Infernos on bigger SRM launchers came later - I don't remember whether it was before or after Streak-2s lost the ability.
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simultaneous in BMR, i think. extending to -4 and -6 launchers was definitely BMR
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simultaneous in BMR, i think. extending to -4 and -6 launchers was definitely BMR
Yep. They decided infernos should be just another special munition, while also ruling that Streak Missiles couldn't use special munitions.
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I havent got the newest one yet but I'd like to see more units with AP Gauss Rifles they appeared were popular but are now not? Instead mass machine guns
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I havent got the newest one yet but I'd like to see more units with AP Gauss Rifles they appeared were popular but are now not? Instead mass machine guns
I can only guess it's because AP Gauss explodes just like their bigger brethren so stacking one on top of another is a bigger crit risk than MGs where you only have to worry about the ammo.
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You also can't make AP Gauss arrays.
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You also can't make AP Gauss arrays.
That's a positive, arrays suck.
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I havent got the newest one yet but I'd like to see more units with AP Gauss Rifles they appeared were popular but are now not? Instead mass machine guns
Well, when it comes to the Puma S, using mass machine guns lets it have an introductory date of 3050.
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I havent got the newest one yet but I'd like to see more units with AP Gauss Rifles they appeared were popular but are now not? Instead mass machine guns
Grouped APGR are a good way if getting a cascade of explosions to mush your pilot.
APGRs weigh twice as much as a MG. The ammo is heavier. They also produce heat.
So a group of MGs is a lightweight tertiary weapon system offering useful cheap crits at knife range.
A group of APGRs is a real weapon system that takes heat from more capable weapons and is vulnerable to explosions.
Put another way. APGRs need to be superior to a SRM. A MG array doesn't.
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Good arguments against AP Gauss ill admit I hadn't thought of the cascade idea or size of explosive crit zone compared to one for the MG ammo
Along the same lines I guess Light MG simply don't get a look in because regular MG weigh the same and do double the damage
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I generally would prefer extra MGs to arrays, but I can see the use for an array on a flanker like the new Linbacker config., allowing it to do some concentrated damage to open up rear torsos before circling back around for some crit seeking.
Cheers,
LCC
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You can blame the Linebacker I on a guy named Garrett, who test-fielded his custom LAM against my Liao Urban Assault force (4 AC/20 Urbies, 4 AC/20 Centurions, 4 Schrecks) back in 1993 - the thing had 28 MGs, and was hopping around the field can-openering the rear of one of my units each round while my guys needed 12s to hit.
I'm pleased to pass my trauma on to you in the form of the Linebacker I.
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What is it about the Draconis Combine that they name 'Mechs after people who become politically dubious?
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What is it about the Draconis Combine that they name 'Mechs after people who become politically dubious?
Every Drac is politically dubious?
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Every Drac is politically dubious?
If they’re not just wait a few days
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So for the Marauder . . .
. . . is the Marauder C up to the full weight now? AND the RS has a problem- its IS internal Structure but it shows CASE?
Looks like it. I just put it in SSW and get the full 75 tons.
So for the Marauder . . .
AND the RS has a problem- its IS internal Structure but it shows CASE?
Apparently that's OK. In fact on page 6 it says "...but special care was given to add CASE." So I guess the Techs found a good way of installing the ammo in a CASE bay. My personal theory is that when they pulled the AC/5 ammo, they replaced it with Pod-mounted Ultra AC/5 ammo package instead of a "bin". IOW the ammo is stored in a CASE compliant manner at the factory and Techs just slide it into the bay.
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I don't like the Cricket at all, but in a good way. I think it's a bad design, but in an absolutely sensible way in-universe. I have never found ballistic weapons to be a big threat to light designs, except potentially for LB-Xs, which don't care about reinforced armor. SRMs sometimes do stuff, but in that case it'd be way better with reactive armor. We don't have enough Reactive lights.
But, not every design has to be a winner, and it makes total sense for the Combine to make. Everyone makes missteps with new tech.
The ballistic armor is good against Rotary Autocannons, which could be a problem for the Cricket.
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That Linebacker I is interesting. Like the recent Loki, it gives the Wolves a heavy design with the Scout role. Also, this may be one of the few mechs that can actually hurt an infantry platoon taking cover inside a building, without entering the building itself or lighting it on fire.
Granted there won't be much of a Medium or smaller building left after getting hit by twenty machine guns, but even if it's still standing, the platoon that withdraws from their soon-to-collapse cover is now crippled, as opposed to one that has only taken a couple casualties.
Sea Fox sales pitch: "The Linebacker I: When you want to out-Pirahna the Pirahna."
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When every last infantryman on the field must be killed thrice
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The Cricket is a weird mech. I don't know to feel about it other then a raise eyebrow and confusion.
It reminds me of the Fennec from TRO:3085, but with half-size PPCs. Use it like a Fennec and you'll probably be fine.
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Apparently that's OK. In fact on page 6 it says "...but special care was given to add CASE." So I guess the Techs found a good way of installing the ammo in a CASE bay. My personal theory is that when they pulled the AC/5 ammo, they replaced it with Pod-mounted Ultra AC/5 ammo package instead of a "bin". IOW the ammo is stored in a CASE compliant manner at the factory and Techs just slide it into the bay.
Yeah, the Griffin C which uses IS EndoSteel? has Clan CASE taking a crit, but no weight. The Marauder C has Clan IS, shows the incorporated CASE taking no crit.
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I kind of like the Cricket, but if they used a supercharger instead of MASC you could get a full-sized cockpit in there, and have a half ton left over for something.
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Yeah, the Griffin C which uses IS EndoSteel? has Clan CASE taking a crit, but no weight. The Marauder C has Clan IS, shows the incorporated CASE taking no crit.
The Griffin C's technical readout entry says 0 crits (and 0 tons) for Clan CASE. The RS shows (CASE) next to the torso name. Not only is there no CASE listed in a critical slot, there's no critical slot left empty.
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Yeah, I do not have the RS- it says its a Earthwerks frame . . . so does it have 14 ES slots? Then its IS ES and CASE type is IIRC determined by IS type . . . I ask b/c that is the only other one I can think of like the Marauder C- what should be a IS frame with Clan CASE.
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That assumption (clan/is case goes along with clan/is structure) is no longer correct.
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I kind of like the Cricket, but if they used a supercharger instead of MASC you could get a full-sized cockpit in there, and have a half ton left over for something.
There's a few variants that come to mind, and I suspect a supercharger one will be the most likely to appear. However, I try to not fully optimize my designs. I was tinkering with such a variant before finalizing it, thinking of going with TAG with the weight thus saved (rather than adding another heat sink, as I don't like to eliminate all heat), but then just decided to stick with the less ideal piece of tech.
I also wanted the small cockpit because I wanted it to not be suitable for long-term deep-strike / harrassment roles, to help better differentiate it from the Spider and Venom. It's meant to be an outright battle mech, not a scout. I probably should have added the Poor Life Support quirk as well, to help reinforce this, but that's minor.
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There's a few variants that come to mind, and I suspect a supercharger one will be the most likely to appear. However, I try to not fully optimize my designs. I was tinkering with such a variant before finalizing it, thinking of going with TAG with the weight thus saved (rather than adding another heat sink, as I don't like to eliminate all heat), but then just decided to stick with the less ideal piece of tech.
I also wanted the small cockpit because I wanted it to not be suitable for long-term deep-strike / harrassment roles, to help better differentiate it from the Spider and Venom. It's meant to be an outright battle mech, not a scout. I probably should have added the Poor Life Support quirk as well, to help reinforce this, but that's minor.
Man I love hearing from the designer of a mech. Thanks for the insight! That makes sense.
Now, who designed the Marauder 11D so I can hear their thoughts on that!
Cheers for letting us behind the curtain, Xotl.
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There's a few variants that come to mind, and I suspect a supercharger one will be the most likely to appear. However, I try to not fully optimize my designs. I was tinkering with such a variant before finalizing it, thinking of going with TAG with the weight thus saved (rather than adding another heat sink, as I don't like to eliminate all heat), but then just decided to stick with the less ideal piece of tech.
I also wanted the small cockpit because I wanted it to not be suitable for long-term deep-strike / harrassment roles, to help better differentiate it from the Spider and Venom. It's meant to be an outright battle mech, not a scout. I probably should have added the Poor Life Support quirk as well, to help reinforce this, but that's minor.
Ah. OK.
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One question with the MG array does that make all the damage combine into one hit or are they still considered to be separate weapons?
I had a thought that the Crickets ballistic reinforced armour would reduce the damage to virtually nothing with individual hits over the Mech but if the arrays combine the damage to one location it might help to punch through the armour
I know that variant has no right to be hunting Mechs but the Cricket is a type that will pop up when least expected
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separate weapons but they all hit the same location
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. . . I just realized, none of the Nova Cat fans have chimed in . . . the Nova Cat has new art, which means it will likely crop back up in production somewhere- where could that be?
Clan Protectorate- Foxes 'gifted' that information from their trade deal with the Dracs
Ghost Bear Dominion- Data & dies captured during the 2nd GB-DC war
Draconis Combine- gets a new mech, something-Samurai-something . . . accounts for the aesthetic changes
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. . . I just realized, none of the Nova Cat fans have chimed in . . . the Nova Cat has new art, which means it will likely crop back up in production somewhere- where could that be?
Clan Protectorate- Foxes 'gifted' that information from their trade deal with the Dracs
Ghost Bear Dominion- Data & dies captured during the 2nd GB-DC war
Draconis Combine- gets a new mech, something-Samurai-something . . . accounts for the aesthetic changes
Stomping on the Coordinator's head >:D :'(
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The Nova Cat is probably either manufactured by the Draconis Combine or Sea Foxes nowadays. The former because i seem to recall the Dracs transplanted an entire factory to Luthien or elsewhere, the latter because of their generally close association with the Nova Cats.
I suppose there's some chance of the Republic of the Sphere having a factory, after all a lot of Nova Cats joined the Republic.
The Clan Protectorate making it is a possibility but simply obtaining them from the Sea Foxes in general seems more likely.
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I'd be extremely thrilled to have Nova Cats in the Free Worlds League.
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One of the things I didn't realize until last week was how newbie friendly this series is. There's a lot of quirky stuff for long time players, and then there's just a lot of solid, no frills designs that are "intro tech, but better," either sanding off a bunch of the flaws (a lot of the MADs in this one) or eliminating heat-curves (one of the things new players have the hardest time riding at first)
Just, overall, me and the kids are really digging this series. Every time one gets released, we're brawling with new designs the next day. :) keep it up! :thumbsup:
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One of the things I didn't realize until last week was how newbie friendly this series is. There's a lot of quirky stuff for long time players, and then there's just a lot of solid, no frills designs that are "intro tech, but better," either sanding off a bunch of the flaws (a lot of the MADs in this one) or eliminating heat-curves (one of the things new players have the hardest time riding at first)
Just, overall, me and the kids are really digging this series. Every time one gets released, we're brawling with new designs the next day. :) keep it up! :thumbsup:
I can't tell you how happy I am to be able to use all these reimagined minis both in the Third Succession War era as Succession War era designs AND as 'modern' cutting edge design in 3151. So chalk full of awesome it is hard to express.
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the Nova Cat has new art, which means it will likely crop back up in production somewhere- where could that be?
My guess would be the Combine, as pretty much everything the Cats used to own is now theirs.
Of course, I also predicted they'd get one of the retcon Marauders since they never made a Phoenix variant despite producing the 5D so take my opinions with the appropriate shaker of salt. ;)
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My guess would be the Combine, as pretty much everything the Cats used to own is now theirs.
Of course, I also predicted they'd get one of the retcon Marauders since they never made a Phoenix variant despite producing the 5D so take my opinions with the appropriate shaker of salt. ;)
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they produced the 11D on Quentin. (Then again, I hope they get NO FUN TOYS AT ALL) But in fairness I'm sure everyone will get something fun to play with.
Speaking of which, the Marauder II 8K is pretty awesome looking and loadout wise, so they win there......
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The Combine definitely seems to have decided to focus on the Marauder II over the Marauder.
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I wouldn't be surprised at all if they produced the 11D on Quentin. (Then again, I hope they get NO FUN TOYS AT ALL) But in fairness I'm sure everyone will get something fun to play with.
Speaking of which, the Marauder II 8K is pretty awesome looking and loadout wise, so they win there......
Everyone has but the Ghost Bears so far.
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The Combine definitely seems to have decided to focus on the Marauder II over the Marauder.
Though I do like their Marauder II, it's built to take it rather than dishing it out.
I personally prefer to dish it out.
The more you can dish it out, the less you have to worry about taking it. >:D
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Rec Guides 1-4 are now up on the MUL. Surprise for me, the new Awesome 11H is much more widely available than I had assumed. >:D
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likely produced on
Irian. they generally sell to everybody
oh i missed that the technicron plan was back online. they obviously don't have qualms about exporting either apparently
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Was bummed to see the new Trebuchet is NOT widely available. That is one sexy little fire support medium.
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There was something attractively balls to the wall about the xtro offering with a xxl and three cLRM-15s. This one is far more sensible
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There was something attractively balls to the wall about the xtro offering with a xxl and three cLRM-15s. This one is far more sensible
That is 3145 NTNU variant
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There is no treb in the xtro so that checks out :))
It certainly fits in with the delightfully loony bin offerings in that book like the Hermes ii and x8 lppc awesome
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Was bummed to see the new Trebuchet is NOT widely available. That is one sexy little fire support medium.
It's available to mercs. That's almost as good as putting it on the IS General list.
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It's available to mercs. That's almost as good as putting it on the IS General list.
Agreed, I'm still sticking one in my 4th Davion Guards--I'll just need to say they salvaged it from the Dragoons first!
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I really like in these how the AES is used in different ways, that it seems to be very well implemented so far.
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So now that we're through the first sounder of RecGuides: what's everyone's Top 5 so far?
Mine, in no particular order:
- Hierofalcon. What a vicious little monster, especially the A and C.
- Trebuchet 9N. The apotheosis of the Treb as a concept.
- Awesome 10H. Simple, effective, a straight upgrade of the classic 8Q. Only the 9Q still competes, and only because of the ECM.
- Marauder IIC 10. For maximum laser WAAAAAGH
- Shadow Cat III. Is it a bit redundant with the Hierofalcon? Sure, but it has Narrow/Low Profile and every config is good, which you can rarely say about an Omni.
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in a particular order but i'm not saying what it is :))
Ostscout 12R
Blackjack 5
Treb 9N
Hammerhead
Crab 54
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Probably reveals more about me than the 'mechs. overly squishy is something I can't abide by. >< Some, like the Nightstar got up there because it was boring. It's a clan tech Vanquisher.
Top three Clan
Heirofalcon
Sojourner
Griffin C
Top three IS
GRF-3N Griffin
MAD-7R Marauder
WSP-5A Wasp
Bottom three Clan
Dominator
NSR-10D Nightstar
Pack Hunter
Bottom three IS
UM-93 Urbanmech
RWN-01 Cricket
KGC-011 King Crab
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Awesome AWS-10H
Marauder IIC (yeah, the original is still my fav)
Hammerhead
Grasshopper GHR-8K
Crab CRB-54
And there you go. I like the Crab for the potential plasma shenanigans. :D
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Probably reveals more about me than the 'mechs. overly squishy is something I can't abide by. >< Some, like the Nightstar got up there because it was boring. It's a clan tech Vanquisher.
Top three Clan
Heirofalcon
Sojourner
Griffin C
Top three IS
GRF-3N Griffin
MAD-7R Marauder
WSP-5A Wasp
Bottom three Clan
Dominator
NSR-10D Nightstar
Pack Hunter
Bottom three IS
UM-93 Urbanmech
RWN-01 Cricket
KGC-011 King Crab
Nightstar is IS, but I understand you don’t like it!
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Nightstar is IS, but I understand you don’t like it!
It also predates the Varnisher both in and out of universe by about a decade.
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He is referring to the ERLL/LGR layout.
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I want to like the Dominator and Thresher II but their absurdly bloated BV makes that difficult. In a campaign setting not concerned about BV, sure, they work.
I like the Shadow Cat III's looks and the Prime's good but otherwise it isn't particularly interesting. Still thinking of getting one for my planned Dark Age Nova Cats/Spirit Cats/Clan Protectorate.
The Hierofalcon's good, just need more configs i like, as right now only the Prime and B are of interest to me.
Of classic "refreshes", the Griffin 3N, BattleMaster 6G and Awesome 11H are my favorites. The new Blackjack, Grasshopper, Crab, King Crab, Zeus, UrbanMech, and Trebuchet OK. The Marauder gets a special mention due to the amount of WYSIWYG variants, of these the 2T is my favorite because of its simplicity.
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Anyone know where or when we can learn more about Brother Perseus Schell of Randis IV? Asking for a friend...
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Favorite Refreshes so far:
1. Griffin C: great mech without being perfect, widely available to all factions.
2. Marauder II 10D: never played a 4/6/4 assault that wasn’t a Victor. Looking forward to trying it in this sexy beast. 100 ton skirmisher? Sure!
3. Marauder 11D: I’ve played the 9D a fair bit so I’m curious to try this one out and see how the trade offs come in to play: RHS vs having two Clan ERPPCs.
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what's everyone's Top 5 so far?
Grasshopper-8K: Just so sensible, a true successor to the old 5H.
Marauder-7R: I like a lot of these Marauders, actually. This one can take a few hits, which is nice.
Hierofalcon: What a little monster.
Marauder IIC 10: What a big monster.
Hammerhead: Creative use of new tech; there's nothing else quite like it.
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Favorite Refreshes so far:
1. Griffin C: great mech without being perfect, widely available to all factions.
Not to all factions . . . the Crusader Wolves did it and some of the other Clans copied it.
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it's on the IS and IS Clan General lists so pretty much everybody that isn't merc or periphery
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Let's see:
Griffin C (...best Griffin)
Marauder IIC 10 (Lasers. ALL the lasers)
Wasp C (...I know, it's a Wasp, but /what/ a Wasp)
Conjurer 8 (...I love the Wolverine IIC, what can I say)
Sojourner (...I really like how it's put together)
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Anyone know where or when we can learn more about Brother Perseus Schell of Randis IV? Asking for a friend...
He's an original creation for this product.
A keyword search turns up Sergeant Max Schell of the AFFC who took part in the "Descent into Darkness" campaign around Port Krin (From "First Strike"), piloting an ENF-4R Enforcer. Given the timing and area of operations, Max might be a grandfather of Perseus.
(An Amber Schell is also listed among the players who participated in the Battle of Monte Diablo World Wide Event)
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it's on the IS and IS Clan General lists so pretty much everybody that isn't merc or periphery
Either it is sold by the Foxes to everyone (cause they copied it or are trading from the Crusaders for it)- to include mercs or Periphery, or they are not selling it widely. Or its going to be that crap like the 'Jaguar' Omnis ending up all over b/c each House participated in Bulldog & Serpent.
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He's an original creation for this product.
A keyword search turns up Sergeant Max Schell of the AFFC who took part in the "Descent into Darkness" campaign around Port Krin (From "First Strike"), piloting an ENF-4R Enforcer. Given the timing and area of operations, Max might be a grandfather of Perseus.
(An Amber Schell is also listed among the players who participated in the Battle of Monte Diablo World Wide Event)
Thanks! :thumbsup:
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3. Marauder 11D: I’ve played the 9D a fair bit so I’m curious to try this one out and see how the trade offs come in to play: RHS vs having two Clan ERPPCs.
it doesn’t have RHS. Standard IS DHS. The only trade off is on the 11D is an IS XL Engine.
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it doesn’t have RHS. Standard IS DHS. The only trade off is on the 11D is an IS XL Engine.
Think Marauder meant that the 11D offers Clan ERPPCs while the 9D offers RHS.
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Think Marauder meant that the 11D offers Clan ERPPCs while the 9D offers RHS.
Precisely! Posting with a four year old on one arm and six year old on your neck requires an interpreter, thank you Empyrus.
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Ah! Got it.
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A better way to put it perhaps:
The Marauder 9D offers Clan ER Large Lasers, the Silver Bullet Gauss, and 3 Medium X-Pulses. With the RHS, barring rolling a snake eyes on your RHS roll, you can alpha every other turn with impunity.
On the other hand, the 11D offers better stopping power with the Clan spec ERPPCs. The Silver Bullet Gauss may synergize better with the bigger holes the PPCs will provide with 15 pinpoint damage with every hit, rather than the 10 points offered by the lasers on the 9D. However, the 11D doesn't have the cooling to allow you to alpha at 9 hexes without facing some serious heat issues in short order.
I look forward to trying out the 11D--just not sure it is an upgrade or a sidegrade--but nevertheless, it does look like a nice piece of kit to be sure.
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I'm late to the party, but my top five would be:
Marauder MAD-5D-DC
Wasp C
Warhammer IIC 13
Linebacker I
Bushwacker BSW-X4
Honorable mentions go to the other Marauder with a command console (the Marauder II MAD-6C) and the Ice Ferret F, which I didn't look closely at the first time but really like upon further review.
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So now that we're through the first sounder of RecGuides: what's everyone's Top 5 so far?
Mine are (in order of Rec guide):
Dominator - Gives the Wolves a domestic heavy cavalry option that isn't an omni
Pack Hunter 5 - The background and reason for the mixed-tech shows how they could make upgrades on the fly to captured IS facilities
Hierofalcon - A great design and a good fit for the Falcon touman. Plus it's like an omni-upgrade of the Lobo (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69931.msg1640114#msg1640114)
Hammerhead - The design purpose and usage is so different it's nice to see something new.
King Crab KGC-011 - It's just so bonkers of a design that moves so fast.
Honorable Mention (since it's not a new design, but new configurations)
Ice Ferret - The new configurations (especially the F, J, K, & T) add some new tweaks to the existing configurations.
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Yeah, I need to build the Hammerhead in MM to let it run at some Cappie (as Clan Protectorate) or Republic forces.
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I still really like that one Jade Phoenix.
...
what?
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No Recognition Guide this week?
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No Recognition Guide this week?
I believe Vol 7's coming in November 6th
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Definitely nothing on the RecGuide front before November
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No Recognition Guide this week?
There's 4 waves of Rec Guides, to not overwork the staff or everyone's wallets. Wave 1 finished with Rec Guide 6. Wave 2 starts Nov 7th (well that's the plan right now). Wave 1 had 6 Rec Guides, Wave 2 I think only has 5.
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Yeah, the guys responsible for the Recognition Guides are "resting" right now... (Which looks suspiciously just like "pulling all-nighters to meet crazy deadlines" for at least some of them..).
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Looks at clock.
2:24 am... well, technically not an "all"-nighter...
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Yeah, the guys responsible for the Recognition Guides are "resting" right now... (Which looks suspiciously just like "pulling all-nighters to meet crazy deadlines" for at least some of them..).
they're not being forced to stop at the seafood bar after the prime rib station at the buffet now
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all-nightstar? There not variants fill RecGuide. xp ;D
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all-nightstar? There not variants fill RecGuide. xp ;D
Ooh. Could give it all rockets, MRMs, and heavy lasers. It’s too tired to shoot straight. And hardened armor and a torso cockpit so it collapses when pushed.
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NSR-Monday?
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Had a thought. One of the commonly held presumptions is that the rec guide series is going to feature one the previously unseen per issue. Those unseen include the 60 ton Ostsol and Ostroc. However, those two unseen are not part of the set of minis being made for Wave 1 or 2. Do we still think we’ll see them with new art in the Rec guides?
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Had a thought. One of the commonly held presumptions is that the rec guide series is going to feature one the previously unseen per issue. Those unseen include the 60 ton Ostsol and Ostroc. However, those two unseen are not part of the set of minis being made for Wave 1 or 2. Do we still think we’ll see them with new art in the Rec guides?
We were shown new Scorpion leg and told the reseen Goliath art was not all there was so . . . maybe.
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I made the speculative assumption based on there being 22 volumes and 22 classic IS unseen. It’s the only piece of data we have that supports my prediction but it’s an awfully odd number to at least not consider the connection
We obviously won’t know for sure that is the case until either the non KS guys show up or there is a volume that doesn’t feature one
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I made the speculative assumption based on there being 22 volumes and 22 classic IS unseen. It’s the only piece of data we have that supports my prediction but it’s an awfully odd number to at least not consider the connection
We obviously won’t know for sure that is the case until either the non KS guys show up or there is a volume that doesn’t feature one
Well, my dreams of a mixed tech Ostsol with a mixed ReLaser and Clan spec ER Larges lives on in my head!
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Love the Osts. Would be heartbroken is the -sol and -roc get passed over, especially after how fun the Recog Guide Ostscout turned out.
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We already know that the Osts are getting redesigned from the cover of Ghost Hour.
This product line certainly seems like a good place to feature them.
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Locust
Stinger
Wasp
Valkyrie
OstScout
Phoenix Hawk
Griffin
Scorpion
Shadow Hawk
Wolverine
Ostroc
Ostsol
Rifleman
Crusader
Thunderbolt
Archer
Warhammer
Marauder
Goliath
BattleMaster
Longbow
Marauder II
i think the only four not in the KS or intro boxes were the quads and osts. the cover of ghost hour and Ray's scorpion leg teaser seem to indicate those wayward guys are coming so i remain fairly confident that we'll see one per guide.
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Really dumb question. Why are the books all called Recognition Guide: ilClan?
All the Era reference charts saya IlClan era suppose start officially in 3151, not 3150.
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Really dumb question. Why are the books all called Recognition Guide: ilClan?
All the Era reference charts saya IlClan era suppose start officially in 3151, not 3150.
Same reason mechs built in the late 3040s are called Clan Invasion era mechs.
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Really dumb question. Why are the books all called Recognition Guide: ilClan?
All the Era reference charts saya IlClan era suppose start officially in 3151, not 3150.
Like the battlemaster said, a lot of times erased are based on tech/rules level.
Welcome to the future! Or I guess the present.
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Really dumb question. Why are the books all called Recognition Guide: ilClan?
All the Era reference charts saya IlClan era suppose start officially in 3151, not 3150.
It's explained some in the intro to the Rec Guides
Words which once seemed impossible now seem inevitable: the ilClan is nigh.
The turbulence of the last two decades has brought several of our fellow Clans to Terra’s doorstep, to say nothing of the Inner Sphere powers which gaze upon humanity’s birthplace with hungry eyes. But we know our people, we know their aggression. One of them will move to take Terra first and claim the mantle of ilClan, however briefly. If they intend to hold it, however, they will need new hardware—and, as ever, we stand ready to deliver. For a price.
The Sex Foxes are predicting that the a Clan will claim the title of ilClan, even if only temporarily. As an advertising bit, the Foxes are calling their new catalog the "Recognition Guide: ilClan" as in "here's stuff to buy to help you get and/or hold the title of ilClan"
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Sex Foxes? I guess we use our Shadowrun pornomancer powers. I grade this misspelling as, "Mostly Correct.
*slaps the roof of the Ilclan.*
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I really like in these how the AES is used in different ways, that it seems to be very well implemented so far.
Yeah, the explanation in the Hammerhead really made me rethink how useful it was. Too bad I can't fit it in my Stalker IIs.
And my top 5:
Hammerhead
BattleMaster 6G (6C for a runner up just because it's weird.)
Pack Hunter 5
King Crab
Wasp C
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Sex Foxes? I guess we use our Shadowrun pornomancer powers. I grade this misspelling as, "Mostly Correct.
*slaps the roof of the Ilclan.*
So the canopians are in charge now
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So the canopians are in charge now
Only if Daoshen wins the race.
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Only if Daoshen wins the race.
Are they still hangin', I thought the Magistracy left them high and dry during the Capellan Crusades...
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Sex Foxes? I guess we use our Shadowrun pornomancer powers. I grade this misspelling as, "Mostly Correct.
*slaps the roof of the Ilclan.*
TYpo'd, but they say sex sells. Gotta make that 'Mech show off the good stuff.
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Insert Zone of the Enders mech pictures here.
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(https://zoneoftheenders.fandom.com/wiki/Nephtis?file=NephtisZOE2.jpg)
shooting for this i think
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/zoe/images/d/d0/NephtisZOE2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080229064304)
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shooting for this i think
You did it!
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MUL team: any word when Recognition Guide Volumes 5 and 6 will be added to the MUL? Excited to see the new availability lists!
Cheers for your work for the community. :thumbsup:
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MUL team: any word when Recognition Guide Volumes 5 and 6 will be added to the MUL? Excited to see the new availability lists!
Cheers for your work for the community. :thumbsup:
The intro says, "Anybody with money!"
Except the Hammerhead. Gotta be Clan for that. ;D
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You'll know if that's really true if it shows up on the Merc list. Apparently IS General =/ Merc
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Correct. IS general is the successor states plus Comstar/wob, and minor IS powers. Mercs are totally separate
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/55
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My guesses for Volume 5:
Hammerhead: IS Clan General
Conjurer: IS Clan General
Marauder II 8K: Kurita
MAD II 10D: Davion, RotS
Timber Wolf: IS Clan General
Crab: RotS
Catapult K6: Kurita, Liao
King Crab: RotS
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MODERATOR NOTICE
Folks, I've just purged some rampant nonsense with off-color jokes. Knock it off.
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And we're back!
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The BattleTech Forums were restored. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
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The BattleTech Forums were restored. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Man it feels like it was a lot longer than the 24 some hours that it was. Sign of addiction?....
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Man it feels like it was a lot longer than the 24 some hours that it was. Sign of addiction?....
Most probably xp
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I'm just glad were back. We are the most visited of the surviving forums of BattleTech.
I'm looking forward to the next Recguide, but it will be in months. :(
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I'm just glad were back. We are the most visited of the surviving forums of BattleTech.
I'm looking forward to the next Recguide, but it will be in months. :(
Six weeks man . . . not months.
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yeap, month and a half will fly by.
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Or, in 2020 — 3;429 years of perceived time. :D
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Or, in 2020 — 3;429 years of perceived time. :D
Fair point about 2020 and the kind of year it has been. The Clan Invasion wave one has the chance to turn this year around (insane amounts of knocking on wood for luck).
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Fair point about 2020 and the kind of year it has been. The Clan Invasion wave one has the chance to turn this year around (insane amounts of knocking on wood for luck).
That depends.... with some multiverse shenanigans we might get an actual Clan Invasion. ;)
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You guys do remember we should be getting Kickstarter deliveries before that, right? Maybe we can just, I dunno, be happy with getting more BattleTech content than any other year that has ever happened. Wouldn't that be neat?
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Scotty, there's a group of people you've never met before that I'd like to introduce you to. They're called Battletech Fans. Have fun! ;)
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Scotty, there's a group of people you've never met before that I'd like to introduce you to. They're called Battletech Fans. Have fun! ;)
Fixed that for you.
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I’m pretty damned happy. That’s a comment on the 2020ness of 2020, not Battletech.
It’s like it thrives in the ruins, or something...
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It’s like it thrives in the ruins, or something...
Very Succession Wars-y.
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Does anyone think the Rec Guides failed? I think they succeeded wildly, on multiple levels.
There are mech builds I don't agree with, but the vast majority are not only WYSIWYG, but fill the role and 'feel' of the original mech.
I mean, there are exceptions. Commando goes from a short range spiker to a mid range fire support setup and the trebuchet does the opposite, but even there the changes follow a logic.
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Does anyone think the Rec Guides failed? I think they succeeded wildly, on multiple levels.
Reception for the Rec Guides has been so overwhelmingly positive that I'm confused as to why you even needed to ask that.
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Reception for the Rec Guides has been so overwhelmingly positive that I'm confused as to why you even needed to ask that.
I think it is a valid question but one we are not likely to get an answer to from TPTB. Just because the people on this forum love the product doesn't mean that it has been successful outside this bubble. Of course it all depends upon the intent of the product. If the aim was to make the hardcore fan base happy then it appears to be a wildly successful product. It might even pull some of the Grognards into 3150.
Personally, I think they are only OK. I don't hate them or love them. I bought into the first round but I probably won't buy any more. . . Maybe one or 2 if the Ostsol & Ostroc show up. Really I can wait until the hardcopy comes out and then fill in the missing mechs that I might want stats for with the PDFs at a later date.
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Really I can wait until the hardcopy comes out and then fill in the missing mechs that I might want stats for with the PDFs at a later date.
The problem with that is the average length of a Recognition guide is (give or take) 35 pages. I'm pretty sure CGL isn't releasing a 770 page TRO next year. So it may (or may not, we will see) be necessary to pick up the Rec Guides for the stats on the mechs you want.
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whether they insist on including the record sheets like with golden century is the straw (or in this case, ten ton anvil) that would break the proverbial camel's back. without sheets or the cover/common intro pages, each recguide so far is only ten pages. a 225-245 page compilation would be on par with a normal TRO.
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whether they insist on including the record sheets like with golden century is the straw (or in this case, ten ton anvil) that would break the proverbial camel's back. without sheets or the cover/common intro pages, each recguide so far is only ten pages. a 225-245 page compilation would be on par with a normal TRO.
I've been contemplating record sheets recently. Initially I thought including the record sheets were fantastic but now I feel that they are just eating up space in products. According to the MLU there are over 3500+ variants. That is a lot of record sheets. I'll never use that many units so I'm paying for a lot of product that I'm not going to use and isn't even remotely interesting to read.
Is there a better way to structure the TRO/Rec Guides so that you don't need all of the record sheets? Can we put that information into the TRO entry itself?
For instance Rec Guide #6 has 15 pages worth of Marauder Record Sheets. I'm thinking we could reduce that number of pages to maybe 3 - 5 if we put the exact location spots for each "weapon" on the mech. So for the Mad 7-R entry, instead of having ER PPC, Right Arm, 3 Criticals, 7 Tonnage. We would have ER PPC, Upper Right Arm, Critical Location 4 - 6, 7 Tons.
Now we can include a blank record sheet with maybe a picture of the Marauder and we can fill in exactly where the weapons, armor, heatsinks will go without having to resort to 15 pages worth of record sheets.
We've now saved 10 pages of the PDF that can be used for stories, more mechs, etc.
Just a thought.
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The problem with that is the average length of a Recognition guide is (give or take) 35 pages. I'm pretty sure CGL isn't releasing a 770 page TRO next year. So it may (or may not, we will see) be necessary to pick up the Rec Guides for the stats on the mechs you want.
I'm not a completest. I don't have a compulsion to get every single battletech product out there. I don't need all the variants to use. The MUL lists 3500+ units available to this game. Not having a few of those record sheets isn't going to kill me. There is enough to use already and if I don't like what I'm using, I can use the Techmanual to create my own.
But you are correct. For those people who want every single mech stats then they will have to pick up all the Rec Guides.
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I've been contemplating record sheets recently. Initially I thought including the record sheets were fantastic but now I feel that they are just eating up space in products. According to the MLU there are over 3500+ variants. That is a lot of record sheets. I'll never use that many units so I'm paying for a lot of product that I'm not going to use and isn't even remotely interesting to read.
Is there a better way to structure the TRO/Rec Guides so that you don't need all of the record sheets? Can we put that information into the TRO entry itself?
For instance Rec Guide #6 has 15 pages worth of Marauder Record Sheets. I'm thinking we could reduce that number of pages to maybe 3 - 5 if we put the exact location spots for each "weapon" on the mech. So for the Mad 7-R entry, instead of having ER PPC, Right Arm, 3 Criticals, 7 Tonnage. We would have ER PPC, Upper Right Arm, Critical Location 4 - 6, 7 Tons.
Now we can include a blank record sheet with maybe a picture of the Marauder and we can fill in exactly where the weapons, armor, heatsinks will go without having to resort to 15 pages worth of record sheets.
We've now saved 10 pages of the PDF that can be used for stories, more mechs, etc.
Just a thought.
That doesn't work, putting that in text introduces more chances for errors.
Also not just equipment but also other stats can differ between variants (armor/engine/etc).
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That doesn't work, putting that in text introduces more chances for errors.
Also not just equipment but also other stats can differ between variants (armor/engine/etc).
Correct. Armor engines etc between variants could be different. Each variant would basically be a mini TRO entry and there will probably more chances for errors at least initially. Just shooting out ideas here. I admit it isn't perfect. Do you have a better suggestion or are you content with all the record sheets?
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I've been contemplating record sheets recently. Initially I thought including the record sheets were fantastic but now I feel that they are just eating up space in products. According to the MLU there are over 3500+ variants. That is a lot of record sheets. I'll never use that many units so I'm paying for a lot of product that I'm not going to use and isn't even remotely interesting to read.
Is there a better way to structure the TRO/Rec Guides so that you don't need all of the record sheets? Can we put that information into the TRO entry itself?
For instance Rec Guide #6 has 15 pages worth of Marauder Record Sheets. I'm thinking we could reduce that number of pages to maybe 3 - 5 if we put the exact location spots for each "weapon" on the mech. So for the Mad 7-R entry, instead of having ER PPC, Right Arm, 3 Criticals, 7 Tonnage. We would have ER PPC, Upper Right Arm, Critical Location 4 - 6, 7 Tons.
Now we can include a blank record sheet with maybe a picture of the Marauder and we can fill in exactly where the weapons, armor, heatsinks will go without having to resort to 15 pages worth of record sheets.
We've now saved 10 pages of the PDF that can be used for stories, more mechs, etc.
Just a thought.
They did actually start including allocating equipment in the TRO entry for the new variants/configs. It actually works better with the Omnis than standard mech variants.
The reason you got 15 Marauders is it collected what had been scattered over various and it had not been included in new source like TRO Succession Wars or Clan Invasion.
IMO it is fine for a PDF, if the Rec Guides were printed you might have a point . . . but to be honest, I expect the RecGuide's printed version to be like Sartis outlined and we will get a RS RecGuide Compilation that is PDF & PoD.
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Correct. Armor engines etc between variants could be different. Each variant would basically be a mini TRO entry and there will probably more chances for errors at least initially. Just shooting out ideas here. I admit it isn't perfect. Do you have a better suggestion or are you content with all the record sheets?
Offloading the maximum amount of stats to the Record Sheets is both a superior work process and provides a better result.
As far as I can tell they can simply design a 'Mech variant in MML and then output a record sheet, the actual TRO entry itself can then purely focus on presenting a better story.
The alternatives are either fully writing it out in text or manually making stat-blocks, both are very work inefficient, are error prone, and don't read very smoothly.
As for the compilation print version, it will likely don't have the RS.
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Offloading the maximum amount of stats to the Record Sheets is both a superior work process and provides a better result.
As far as I can tell they can simply design a 'Mech variant in MML and then output a record sheet, the actual TRO entry itself can then purely focus on presenting a better story.
The alternatives are either fully writing it out in text or manually making stat-blocks, both are very work inefficient, are error prone, and don't read very smoothly.
You know . . . they already have the stats, all it took was adding a column or two which they did in the RecGuides- like noting what location the JJ or DHS were placed.
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You know . . . they already have the stats, all it took was adding a column or two which they did in the RecGuides- like noting what location the JJ or DHS were placed.
It works decently with Omnis, but it doesn't change the core reality: The more stats are put into the entry, the more manual work that has to be done, more chances at errors, less room for story/art......
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Lol, not really . . . look at the RecGuides- as I said they incorporate it and nothing changed on the TRO entry EXCEPT add a few more rows to show where the JJ, DHS and thing like AES or SCs go. It is no more confusing than previous TRO entries and if you look at the layout of the RecGuides it did not hinder art or fluff in the entries.
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Lol, not really . . . look at the RecGuides- as I said they incorporate it and nothing changed on the TRO entry EXCEPT add a few more rows to show where the JJ, DHS and thing like AES or SCs go. It is no more confusing than previous TRO entries and if you look at the layout of the RecGuides it did not hinder art or fluff in the entries.
But with even less stat blocks you will have more room for fluff and art.
And if we have the RS in the same file then a lot of it is just duplicate information, just best to reduce the stats as much as possible.
Properly best to minimize it to the brand information (from mass to T&T) and add the role & notes.
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But with even less stat blocks you will have more room for fluff and art.
And if we have the RS in the same file then a lot of it is just duplicate information, just best to reduce the stats as much as possible.
Properly best to minimize it to the brand information (from mass to T&T) and add the role & notes.
I dig the fluff and art. Just saying. Once upon a time when I owned the original TRO 3025 and 3026 I didn't reread them umpteen million times to see the numbers. It was the fluff! And the new art is sexy as all get out.
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Is there a better way to structure the TRO/Rec Guides so that you don't need all of the record sheets? Can we put that information into the TRO entry itself?
Now we can include a blank record sheet with maybe a picture of the Marauder and we can fill in exactly where the weapons, armor, heatsinks will go without having to resort to 15 pages worth of record sheets.
The intent in including fully-completed record sheets for each variant in the Recognition Guides (and elsewhere) is so that anyone--and especially brand-new players--can immediately print one out and play with the 'Mech they just read about the moment they get the product.
Remember that we've got a lot of new and lapsed players coming back into the game with the Kickstarter, and the entire purpose of these Recognition Guides is to allow them to use the miniatures in the two (soon to be three) box sets and the new miniatures packs they're about to get in the modern 3150 era.
While enfranchised players might be okay with and know what to do with a semi-completed record sheet or a block of text information, it's another hurdle for a new player to have to overcome. Yes, other tabletop wargames involve some setup and bookkeeping. But we'd like the lowest indivisible building block of BT to be a completed record sheet, not a block of text stats--wherever it's possible.
We've now saved 10 pages of the PDF that can be used for stories, more mechs, etc.
Except that's not how it works. We don't start with X number of pages possible, that the Record Sheets take up. We end up with X number of pages, that the Record Sheets add on to. If you remove the Record Sheets, they likely wouldn't be replaced by more material, they'd be replaced by nothing. If they were replaced by more material, that's more writing, more art, more editing, more layout that you'd have to pay to have created/completed, so you'd have to increase the cost of the book or take a hit to profitability/viability of it.
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Lol, not really . . . look at the RecGuides- as I said they incorporate it and nothing changed on the TRO entry EXCEPT add a few more rows to show where the JJ, DHS and thing like AES or SCs go. It is no more confusing than previous TRO entries and if you look at the layout of the RecGuides it did not hinder art or fluff in the entries.
Notice, though, that only one mech per book tends to get that treatment. And it adds an extra page to the total count. Considering how diverse some mechs can be now- the Ostsol variants in TRO 3085 use at least three different engines, different armor types (at a time when only Stealth Armor and three different flavors of Ferro Fibrous armor were available- now we have a much greater number of options). The sheer complexity that different variants of a mech can receive means that it's far less practical to do it with standard Battlemechs than with omnis.
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No . . . Omnis, and the featured mechs get one or two spelled out for new variants. The 4 that share a page do not even get that stat block.
But the purpose of the RS in the RecGuides, IMO, is to create a new single source for some of the longest running designs. We get one new variant sneaking into the RS from time to time like the two new Marauders.
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The intent in including fully-completed record sheets for each variant in the Recognition Guides (and elsewhere) is so that anyone--and especially brand-new players--can immediately print one out and play with the 'Mech they just read about the moment they get the product.
Remember that we've got a lot of new and lapsed players coming back into the game with the Kickstarter, and the entire purpose of these Recognition Guides is to allow them to use the miniatures in the two (soon to be three) box sets and the new miniatures packs they're about to get in the modern 3150 era.
While enfranchised players might be okay with and know what to do with a semi-completed record sheet or a block of text information, it's another hurdle for a new player to have to overcome. Yes, other tabletop wargames involve some setup and bookkeeping. But we'd like the lowest indivisible building block of BT to be a completed record sheet, not a block of text stats--wherever it's possible.
Except that's not how it works. We don't start with X number of pages possible, that the Record Sheets take up. We end up with X number of pages, that the Record Sheets add on to. If you remove the Record Sheets, they likely wouldn't be replaced by more material, they'd be replaced by nothing. If they were replaced by more material, that's more writing, more art, more editing, more layout that you'd have to pay to have created/completed, so you'd have to increase the cost of the book or take a hit to profitability/viability of it.
There is a lot of great information in your post. Thank you. It is all about perspective. The record sheets aren't eating up additional information space, they are additional material that we are receiving that wouldn't have been there before in previous products. I'm good with that.
Having filled out record sheets does make it easier for everyone one, not just new and returning players to start a new game. You can just grab and go. However I think that filling out the record sheets was/is part of the fun of the game. It's like filling out a D&D character sheet. For me filling out the record sheet makes each mech and pilot feel like a character in the war and each loss feels a bit personal.
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In the grim darkness of the future there is only progress
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Reception for the Rec Guides has been so overwhelmingly positive that I'm confused as to why you even needed to ask that.
I figured that's I'd go fishing for datapoints for Cubby and Adrian to use specifically because this thread has been so positive.
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I like having official record sheets in the PDFs. I find it easier to get a feel for the unit's stats by looking at the record sheet than reading the TRO entry. It also makes it easier to get started because I don't have to fill out a record sheet myself (or really, copy the stats over to a program that can generate a sheet for me.)
Plus the official sheets look nicer than the ones generated by any of the programs I've used. Apparently Catalyst uses MegaMekLab but I think they've customized its output because the sheets it makes don't look anywhere near that nice.
I've been contemplating record sheets recently. Initially I thought including the record sheets were fantastic but now I feel that they are just eating up space in products. According to the MLU there are over 3500+ variants. That is a lot of record sheets. I'll never use that many units so I'm paying for a lot of product that I'm not going to use and isn't even remotely interesting to read.
Is there a better way to structure the TRO/Rec Guides so that you don't need all of the record sheets? Can we put that information into the TRO entry itself?
For instance Rec Guide #6 has 15 pages worth of Marauder Record Sheets. I'm thinking we could reduce that number of pages to maybe 3 - 5 if we put the exact location spots for each "weapon" on the mech. So for the Mad 7-R entry, instead of having ER PPC, Right Arm, 3 Criticals, 7 Tonnage. We would have ER PPC, Upper Right Arm, Critical Location 4 - 6, 7 Tons.
Now we can include a blank record sheet with maybe a picture of the Marauder and we can fill in exactly where the weapons, armor, heatsinks will go without having to resort to 15 pages worth of record sheets.
We've now saved 10 pages of the PDF that can be used for stories, more mechs, etc.
Just a thought.
Record sheets are so easy to generate* and include compared to paying for the writing, art, and layout - all of which are actually rather expensive - that I can't imagine including record sheets increases the price by much if anything.
*It seems like 'mech record sheets included in print books are laid out manually because they follow different formatting conventions than those found in PDF products, such as using lines to mark "ownership" of PPC capacitors and machine gun arrays. But I believe I've heard that sheets for PDF products are generated by MegaMekLab, and there's direct evidence of this since a couple of sheets in the unabridged record sheets PDFs mistakenly have MML's default cockpit art in place of the 'mech's art. So I'm imagining that once the unit is statted out, exporting the sheet is not difficult or time consuming enough to be a major factor in how the product is priced.
But even if I'm wrong, I am 100% fine with their inclusion for the reasons I mentioned previously.
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Up until relatively recently the record sheets were manually generated, yes. Now they’re done with MML. With the newest MML dev versions, the options to include some of what was initially custom like the era icon, role, etc can now be toggled on
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Up until relatively recently the record sheets were manually generated, yes. Now they’re done with MML. With the newest MML dev versions, the options to include some of what was initially custom like the era icon, role, etc can now be toggled on
Wait, does that mean that finishing RS: 3150 NTNU is a possibility now?
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It’s been one for years? Obviously they’re not out for other reasons, whatever those reasons are
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I figured that's I'd go fishing for datapoints for Cubby and Adrian to use specifically because this thread has been so positive.
The rabbit hole of "numbers" is deeper than it seems. So that's why we talk in anecdotes. It's not just because we're unwilling (and not at liberty) to provide hard numbers. It's because it's simpler to boil it down.
I can tell you that the first cycle of Rec Guides did well. They sold well, were profitable, and maybe most encouragingly, the drop-off between vol. 1 and vol. 2, and each subsequent volume after that, was less than we thought it could be. What that tells us is that the people who tried vol. 1, stuck around. The sales retention rate is so important when we're talking about a series that's twenty-two volumes long - if you lose 5 percent of your sales each volume, guess what you've got left by volume 20? Fortunately, that's not happening here at all.
(And, anecdotally, some of the drop-off is probably from people seeing one, and saying, "okay, yeah, these are good--I'm going to make a note to pick up the compiled series once it's done." Same effect on sales for the next volume, but at least we'll recapture some of those dollars with the eventual compilation.)
Also important is that the Rec Guides--and the rest of the releases this summer, both fiction and tabletop--maintained interest in the game at a time when the first wave of the KS was still in production, AND when very few actual in-person games were taking place. That as much as anything was the goal of the series.
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Glad to hear it about the Rec Guides. I’ve been loving them. :thumbsup:
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Like XTROs I would expect these to be a bit of pick and choose. Even at $4 a pop, $88 is probably a bit much for the majority of customers.
The one suggestion I’d make is listing the contents on the store page... unless the gashapon nature of the grab bag surprise is part of the marketing approach
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My complaint is the mixed tech mechs. There is a bit of a predjudice against that in my group, and even if we're in 3150 they're slow to come around.
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Well, the mixed tech mechs suffer from higher BV, so at least there is that.
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I have enjoyed them all so far even though I really don't play anymore I like that these bring the story forwards ill be buying the rest no question
Only thing I'd like to see is maybe a map or a State of the Sphere announcement to go along with them showing the steps that are being taken in universe but I'm guessing ilClan will be that showing the steps to the fall of Terra
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My complaint is the mixed tech mechs. There is a bit of a predjudice against that in my group, and even if we're in 3150 they're slow to come around.
That is the reason for having the 4-page spread for the Classics. The non-mixed tech versions are our initial Vision; the advanced versions (be they mixed, quirky, or both) happened when we realized that our Classics would be compared to other 3150 chassis. You want pure? Go with the first version. :thumbsup:
Only thing I'd like to see is maybe a map or a State of the Sphere announcement to go along with them showing the steps that are being taken in universe but I'm guessing ilClan will be that showing the steps to the fall of Terra
Well, in terms of interstellar geography, Shattered Fortress should bring you up to date in where the RecGuides are.
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MixedTech is the New Normal for 3150 much like TacOps gear went mainstream in Prototypes
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Only thing I'd like to see is maybe a map or a State of the Sphere announcement to go along with them showing the steps that are being taken in universe but I'm guessing ilClan will be that showing the steps to the fall of Terra
Shattered Fortress was that, mostly - along with the recent fiction novellas.
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Yeah, I picked which RecGuides I bought based on what was in them . . . I got 2,4,5,6 because they had mechs I was interested in immediately rather than waiting- especially finding the retcon'd Marauder C.
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Shattered Fortress was that, mostly - along with the recent fiction novellas.
Is it bad I forgot I owned that... I've read it once might have to go back over it I thought the Rec guides were going beyond it. Then again I've got all the Jihad books I want to read again... and the falcon novel and now the wolf one...
Could one of the BattleTech writers get creative for me and write a sickline so I can catch up? ;D
Id rather have options than not though
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The rabbit hole of "numbers" is deeper than it seems. So that's why we talk in anecdotes. It's not just because we're unwilling (and not at liberty) to provide hard numbers. It's because it's simpler to boil it down.
I can tell you that the first cycle of Rec Guides did well. They sold well, were profitable, and maybe most encouragingly, the drop-off between vol. 1 and vol. 2, and each subsequent volume after that, was less than we thought it could be. What that tells us is that the people who tried vol. 1, stuck around. The sales retention rate is so important when we're talking about a series that's twenty-two volumes long - if you lose 5 percent of your sales each volume, guess what you've got left by volume 20? Fortunately, that's not happening here at all.
(And, anecdotally, some of the drop-off is probably from people seeing one, and saying, "okay, yeah, these are good--I'm going to make a note to pick up the compiled series once it's done." Same effect on sales for the next volume, but at least we'll recapture some of those dollars with the eventual compilation.)
Also important is that the Rec Guides--and the rest of the releases this summer, both fiction and tabletop--maintained interest in the game at a time when the first wave of the KS was still in production, AND when very few actual in-person games were taking place. That as much as anything was the goal of the series.
The RecGuides have been some of my favourite CGL products in awhile. The near-constant stream of BattleTech products recently helped get me through a pretty meh 2020, and definitely got me excited in a way few things have this year. (I'm hoping my Clan Invasion Kickstarter goodness will have a similar effect.)
Thank you to everyone that put so much effort and love into these products.
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Correct me if i'm wrong but ain't we got a ilClan Recognition Guide coming out this week?
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Nov 6 is when they return.
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Nov 6 is when they return.
A little reward for slogging through election season here. Looking forward to the return!
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Nov 6 is when they return.
A heckuva birthday present, if I do say so myself. ;)
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One more month...
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One more month...
Bah, that will fly by in no time and...oh wait, this 2020. It'll feel twice as long. :bang:
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Work's been really rough lately so the Jade Phoenix is my motivation to keep on keeping on, haha.
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Is it bad I forgot I owned that... I've read it once might have to go back over it I thought the Rec guides were going beyond it.
It is a really good book that I also forgot I owned. Haha. I got it when I was in school and so I read it and enjoyed it and then just forgot I guess. I just went through it again recently and it's amazing.
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It is a really good book that I also forgot I owned. Haha. I got it when I was in school and so I read it and enjoyed it and then just forgot I guess. I just went through it again recently and it's amazing.
I reread FM: 3145 and Shattered Fortress and really enjoyed them both. Looking forward to Hour of the Wolf tying it together and moving it all forward.
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I have it on good authority Clan Spaniel will finally be in a position to finish off those evil monkeys once it becomes ilClan.
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I have it on good authority Clan Spaniel will finally be in a position to finish off those evil monkeys once it becomes ilClan.
We will finally get record sheets for the Corgi Omnimech!
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Will Woof's Dragoons ever get their comeuppance?
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Haven't they already?
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If you mean annihilation, probably never
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And that's 50 pages, dear friends.
Please direct all future Corgi Omnimech questions to Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion Part 2:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/recognition-guide-ilclan-discussion-part-2/