Rocket Launchers question

[Men Shen]

How do you rocket Launcher work? just bought jihad turning points: Sian and 3067 record sheets and noticed a lot of alternate designs got rocket launchers. I like Liao so I thought I better learn more about them. So what has your experience with rocket launchers taught you?

[Stormfury]

They are one-shot, direct-fire missile weapons with a to-hit penalty that roll on the cluster chart.

I find them interesting to use if I want to have fun, but for a more competitive game the 'Mechs that use them run into all sorts of issues; on the one hand, you can deliver a lot of damage in a single turn, but then you're done. You need massed Rocket Launchers for them to really be effective... but at that point you're really probably better off with LRMs, which will offer a better range, be able to fire multiple times, and even if they can't fire as many missiles at once at least don't suffer a to-hit penalty. The ability to fire indirectly or use specialty ammunition is even more helpful.

They do work quite well on Conventional or AeroSpace Fighters or VTOLs as an alternative to bombs, and a Pegasus or Saladin that traded its weapons in for that mass of Rocket Launchers could be quite intimidating, but thus far no canon designs have impressed me much.

Better used for flavour than as the backbone of your force.

[Siberian-troll]

... but thus far no canon designs have impressed me much.

I used Karnow RL version several times, and I found it very,very nasty against players with "assault turret" mindset.

[Martius]

How do you rocket Launcher work? just bought jihad turning points: Sian and 3067 record sheets and noticed a lot of alternate designs got rocket launchers. I like Liao so I thought I better learn more about them. So what has your experience with rocket launchers taught you?

Rocket launchers are one shot weapons, inaccurate but when used wisely they dish out scary damage. They are also good crit sinks, as they are not exploding when hit or when a Mech overheats.

I found them to be used best as ambush weapons, targetting slow units.
For example use a slow, cheap light with massed RLs to walk into the back arch of a camping assault or heavy and unload your ordonance. Sure, the light might not survive the assault's attention ( but Firestarters and even Commandos are sometimes surprisingly resilient) but the damage done is sometimes worth the risk and the round the assault or its buddies spend pounding the light into scrap metal might take pressure from your other combat units as well.
Just move in and Alpha- a lowly COM-4H can potentially dish out 100 damage but usually it does about 60 to 70 on a perfect ambush. Don't worry about overheating as once the Rocket pods are empty this Mech's mission is fulfilled anyway. The Firestarter has Jumpjets, so if it survives the round it can jump into cover to cool down.

To use RLs effectively one has not to be crazy- but it helps.  :D

[Degman]

They are great for pirates and raiders - hit fast, hit hard and then run like hell :)

But definitely not for prolonged shoot-outs

[willydstyle]

I like the locust 5V with two RL10s and two ERMLs.

[A. Lurker]

I tend to consider rocket launchers mainly good for two purposes:

-- On purpose-built hit-and-run designs intended to go in, hit hard, and retreat as quickly as possible. This works best on fast conventional vehicles because they don't have to worry about heat buildup from firing a bunch of RLs at once and are relatively "expendable", anyway, but it's always a possible route for speedly light 'Mech designs as well.

-- As a bit of "holdout" reserve firepower on units relying mainly on other weapons, to be used in emergencies or when your target numbers are particularly inviting. I prefer using Omni units for this because by their nature they can swap their RL pods for something else if need be...but a single RL 10 makes for a plausible alternative to a small laser when it comes to taking up that odd leftover half ton, too. :)

[Fireangel]

They can be more tonnage-efficient than large LRM racks, especially if you have crits to spare.

An LRM-10 weighs in at 5 tons, plus a ton for 12 shots. For the same 6 tons, you could mount 12 RL-10s.

Sure, they take up 12 slots, as opposed to only 2 for the LRM-10 + 12shots AND the range is slightly shorter (not to mention the to hit penalty), but there are certain advantages;

1) lower tech base / cheaper to produce
2) no explosions if hit
3) one critical hit does not significantly reduce combat potential
4) crit-soaking goodness
5) less heat per shot; 3 heat (RL-10) v. 4 heat (LRM-10)
6) scalable attack potential; By firing singly, the unit has 12rounds of fire, but has the option of firing more than one launcher per turn.

Note that you DON'T have to fire all RL packs at once; firing them singly or in pairs allows for significant combat endurance.

[Challenger]

I used Karnow RL version several times, and I found it very,very nasty against players with "assault turret" mindset.

'Mech Hunter' VTOLs of this kinda are quite fun I will admit.

Challenger

[Onisuzume]

As repeatedly mentioned: they're one-shot, and got penalties to hit and on cluster rolls.
So imo, they smeg hard. I'd much rather have an MRM launcher.

[Greyhind]

1) lower tech base / cheaper to produce

Tech base I'll give you but two RL10s cost the same as a ton of LRM10 ammo. MRMs would be a better fit at a sixth of the LRM's price

[Nebfer]

6) scalable attack potential; By firing singly, the unit has 12rounds of fire, but has the option of firing more than one launcher per turn.

Note that you DON'T have to fire all RL packs at once; firing them singly or in pairs allows for significant combat endurance.

My brother did this to me once, he had a Firestarter with them, he just fired off like one or two of them per turn, and I was left wondering just how many dose he have?

[A. Lurker]

Tech base I'll give you but two RL10s cost the same as a ton of LRM10 ammo. MRMs would be a better fit at a sixth of the LRM's price

Apples and oranges. Yes, two 10-shot rocket launchers cost the same as a ton of LRM ammo...but you don't buy new racks for them every time any more than you do for any other missile delivery system, and the cost to reload those two only works out to 2,000 C-bills total (TechManual p. 295). So for the cost of one ton of LRM ammo -- twelve shots for one LRM 10 or six for either paired 10s or a single LRM 20 --, you can do that fifteen times.

(MRMs are still cheaper, of course, since you get a lot more missiles for those 5,000 C-bills per ton; but the original launcher costs more in terms of both money and weight, and the sorts of units you'd use rocket launchers on in the first place aren't always ones you'd expect to live long enough to see a return on that investment.)

[JPArbiter]

a Pair of Rocket Launcher 10s beats out a Medium laser for a Rear Firing weapon

1) longer range

2) slightly more damage

3) for as often as you are going to use rear fire weapons, it makes for a better BV

[Greyhind]

Oops, I completely missed the RL reloads. For some reason I came away with the impression that an entire mew launcher would hve to be installed each time. :-[

[Challenger]

As repeatedly mentioned: they're one-shot, and got penalties to hit and on cluster rolls.
So imo, they smeg hard. I'd much rather have an MRM launcher.

Ahh yes, but you can fit thousands (please ignore the slight hyperboil) of them on a fast VTOL, boom and zoom some unsuspecting Assault Mech and fly off to safety.  VTOLs have the life expectancy of a mayfly in prolonged combat and even if 75% of the rockets miss the mere size of the banks ensure a world of hurt if fired into the rear of a target.

I forget the most I've seen fitted, but 200 rockets per VTOL isn't unachievable.

Challenger

[Men Shen]

Has anybody used any of the canon variants that mount rocket launchers the Naomi Cataphract, and the Thanatos from unique mechs record sheets. Thanks for all replys.






/

[Youngblood]

I've seen Naomi Centrella's Cataphract in play before.  It's a good mid-range brawler for its Heavy PPC and Plasma Rifle, not because of its Rocket Launchers.  Felix's Thanatos has a problem where you need to find just the right moment to fire the Rocket Launchers, and until then, it has the firepower of a slightly slower and more accurate Phoenix Hawk (a bit laughable on a 75-ton 'Mech).

[Thatguybil]

a Pair of Rocket Launcher 10s beats out a Medium laser for a Rear Firing weapon

1) longer range

2) slightly more damage

3) for as often as you are going to use rear fire weapons, it makes for a better BV

This is pretty much the prefect use for RL-10 IMHO

I do like the idea of a savana master type hovercraft with a pair of RL-10.  Doesn't get much more hit and run then that.

[Fireangel]

Tech base I'll give you but two RL10s cost the same as a ton of LRM10 ammo. MRMs would be a better fit at a sixth of the LRM's price

I didn't say cheaper to buy. I said cheaper to produce.

 8)

[Youngblood]

a Pair of Rocket Launcher 10s beats out a Medium laser for a Rear Firing weapon

1) longer range

2) slightly more damage

3) for as often as you are going to use rear fire weapons, it makes for a better BV

I must disagree with this, mostly because I play with 4/5 pilots/crews often.  Usually, units that are fast enough to get in your rear arc are quite difficult to hit to begin with (+3 TMM, anyone?), much less after the +1 to hit for using a Rocket Launcher, as well as the +2 to hit if you're doing secondary targeting in that rear arc.  I'd much rather prefer to have Medium Pulse Lasers (or better yet, Clan Medium Pulse Lasers) that can knock down that number to hit, in order to truly punish speedy/jumpy flankers.

[gooseman]

There's a Lightning Hover variant which has a stack of RL's. Quite fun to play; 7 RL-15's & 2 ERML's.

[Sabelkatten]

One of the uses I've played with is to match ERPPCs and RL/10s on firesupport mechs. 5 RL/10s is 15 heat just like an ERPPC, but ~3 times the damage. Sure it's one-shot, but you can still use the ERPPC at close range afterwards and the target won't be very happy after all those rockets! :D

The other use is the mentioned rear mounts. But I find them pretty useless unless you've got a serious load - I tested one custom with 7 RL/10s aft, that sure made an impression! ;D

[Precentor Scorpio]

What are the penalties when using the rocket launchers?

Thank you

[gooseman]

What are the penalties when using the rocket launchers?

Thank you

It's a one-shot weapon first off, second a +1 to hit (like MRM's).

[JPArbiter]

Ahh yes, but you can fit thousands (please ignore the slight hyperboil) of them on a fast VTOL, boom and zoom some unsuspecting Assault Mech and fly off to safety.  VTOLs have the life expectancy of a mayfly in prolonged combat and even if 75% of the rockets miss the mere size of the banks ensure a world of hurt if fired into the rear of a target.

I forget the most I've seen fitted, but 200 rockets per VTOL isn't unachievable.

Challenger

the Crow Scout VTOL Export version is a pretty nice and cheap VTOL, particularly if you remove  the machine guns for three more RL/10s, the Karnov with its six ton infantry bay means 12 rockets

I must disagree with this, mostly because I play with 4/5 pilots/crews often.  Usually, units that are fast enough to get in your rear arc are quite difficult to hit to begin with (+3 TMM, anyone?), much less after the +1 to hit for using a Rocket Launcher, as well as the +2 to hit if you're doing secondary targeting in that rear arc.  I'd much rather prefer to have Medium Pulse Lasers (or better yet, Clan Medium Pulse Lasers) that can knock down that number to hit, in order to truly punish speedy/jumpy flankers.

we just have different experiences, rear facing weapons are a deterrent anyway, but they have served me well, particularly when the flanking elements are not mechs.

[Fireangel]

I must disagree with this, mostly because I play with 4/5 pilots/crews often.  Usually, units that are fast enough to get in your rear arc are quite difficult to hit to begin with (+3 TMM, anyone?), much less after the +1 to hit for using a Rocket Launcher, as well as the +2 to hit if you're doing secondary targeting in that rear arc.  I'd much rather prefer to have Medium Pulse Lasers (or better yet, Clan Medium Pulse Lasers) that can knock down that number to hit, in order to truly punish speedy/jumpy flankers.

The difference is not as significant as one might think; comparing a RL-10 to an ISMPL, we can see that they are superior ONLY in the 1-4 hex range and at exactly 6 hexes; at 5 hexes the RL-10 actually outperforms the ISMPL and at 7+ hexes the ISMPL is not even an issue. Even where the ISMPL does have a better mod, it is only better by one, except in the 1-2 range (where it is 3 better, but letting anyone get there shows bigger problems than weapon selection!).

Code: [Select]

  Weapon:                 Range Modifiers per hex:
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
IS MPL       -2 -2  0  0 +2 +2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

RL-10        +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5
RL-15        +1 +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 -- -- --
RL-20        +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 -- -- -- -- -- --

Comparing the RL-10 to the rear-firing standby, the ISML, we find that the ML has a 1-point bonus over the RL-10 ONLY in the 1-3 and 6 hex range, underperforming it everywhere else except in the 10-18 hex range, where the ML can't even reach.

Code: [Select]

  Weapon:                 Range Modifiers per hex:
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Medium Laser  0  0  0 +2 +2 +2 +4 +4 +4 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

RL-10        +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5
RL-15        +1 +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 -- -- --
RL-20        +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 -- -- -- -- -- --


[JPArbiter]

and I like that 18 hex rear bubble of "OH NO YOU DON'T!"  considering the way I play stuff rarely gets into my Rear arc unscathed anyway, and they are usually 40 tons and under.

there are exceptions of course, you could not pay me to remove a Wolfhounds rear laser for example, but the Zeus, Atlas, and Quickdraw (to use box set mechs) all have a lot of utility swapping the lasers for RL 10s as rear guns.

[Youngblood]

The difference is not as significant as one might think; comparing a RL-10 to an ISMPL, we can see that they are superior ONLY in the 1-4 hex range and at exactly 6 hexes; at 5 hexes the RL-10 actually outperforms the ISMPL and at 7+ hexes the ISMPL is not even an issue. Even where the ISMPL does have a better mod, it is only better by one, except in the 1-2 range (where it is 3 better, but letting anyone get there shows bigger problems than weapon selection!).

Code: [Select]

  Weapon:                 Range Modifiers per hex:
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
IS MPL       -2 -2  0  0 +2 +2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

RL-10        +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5
RL-15        +1 +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 -- -- --
RL-20        +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 -- -- -- -- -- --

Comparing the RL-10 to the rear-firing standby, the ISML, we find that the ML has a 1-point bonus over the RL-10 ONLY in the 1-3 and 6 hex range, underperforming it everywhere else except in the 10-18 hex range, where the ML can't even reach.

Code: [Select]

  Weapon:                 Range Modifiers per hex:
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Medium Laser  0  0  0 +2 +2 +2 +4 +4 +4 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

RL-10        +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5
RL-15        +1 +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 -- -- --
RL-20        +1 +1 +1 +3 +3 +3 +3 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 -- -- -- -- -- --


Okay, I won't deny this.  But at 4/5 gunnery/piloting, often a difference of 1 or 3 can mean the difference between the easy-to-roll 7 and the comparatively more difficult 8, or 10!  In BattleTech, hitting is infinitely more useful than missing, and I'd prefer to deal something consistent rather that flail madly with a lot of rockets and heat myself up that much.  And also, often times the issue of letting people get that close to you in your rear arc can not be helped, such as when a big ponderous 4/6 gunline 'Mech is busy throwing death downrange and an opposing Wraith comes by to be a big pain.  How that situation occurs is up to the players, but an aggressive one with a hyper-jumpy-pulse-boat can often make that situation happen.

[LastChanceCav]

I'm generally not a fan or RLs on battlemechs. Besides occasionally adding them to custom designs for flavor, I think the only weapon I'd be less pleased to see is an OS LRM or SRM. I definitely wouldn't mind if mechs like the 3050 Quickdraw and the Wardag replaced their OS launchers with RLs.

Cheers,
LCC

[Shijima_3085]

On a mobile unit, not that great.  They can add some ranged firepower to infantry units (mounted on light support vehicles) for dealing with pillboxes or other small fortified strong points from outside the range of conventional infantry support weapons.

I've also tinkered with the idea of a boom-box: a rocket pack in a box that can be dropped off by a truck or VTOL somewhere and quickly camouflaged.  Firing would be accomplished by either a trip-line device or a wired remote routed to an infantry squad.

[Medron Pryde]

I like the idea of a handheld weapon full of rockets.  Grab and go, fire and forget.

 [rockon]

[Cannon_Fodder]

I never thought of using them as a rear mounted weapon for a BattleMech. Thats not a bad idea.

So far I have only really used them as bomb alternatives or custom fast mover hovers to get in, deal damage then "GTFO."

[Fear Factory]

Whoever doesn't want Rocket Launchers....  just send them to me.