Unified Doctor Who thread

[ClarkeMarek]

As for what's in the vault...no idea. Missy kind of seems like a safe bet. Gallifrey is possible, weird, but possible. Could also be the Doctor's next incarnation for whatever reason. (As for the Valeyard, well, anything is possible, but I'd say unlikely: from what we know it seems much too late in the Doctor's life for that. Chronologically speaking, the Valeyard would fit in sometime between Tennent2 and Smith, so during the year of the specials (The Planet of the Dead, The Next Doctor, The Waters of Mars, The End of Time").)

I hate to bring the argument up, but actually, according to the Master, at least in the TV episode*, the Valeyard was composed of his darker side, sometime between his Twelfth and final incarnation.  I realize, of course, that 10.2 was technically incarnation 12, but still, even with that, we're along ways off from "final incarnation."

*Of course, the novelization does say, "12th and 13th regeneration."  Either way, there's always the possibility that the Metacrisis Doctor becomes the Valeyard.  Just my 2 cents. :)

EDIT:  May as well throw the link up for proof.  Make of it as you will.

[gyedid]

Well, this is just more pure fan speculation here, but...

If the meta-crisis Doctor is NOT the Valeyard, then how could such a being be generated?  Perhaps it will have something to do with his next regeneration...maybe the regen process will reverse the effects of Clara's mindwipe, bringing back all the memories and all the negative things he did because of her influence.  This creates a concentration of all the evil aspects of the Doctor's character, which are somehow spun off into a separate being, with all of the Doctor's memories and abilities up to that point, but only a single lifetime.
And what he wants more than anything is to have more lifetimes.

I would like to ask more questions about that mindwipe.  It seems to me that this would cover everything that happened between "The Snowmen" and "Hell Bent".  So, if the Doctor is confronted with anybody who was involved in those adventures, does that mean he doesn't remember them at all, or anything that occurred?  So things like the Boneless, the Sandmen, Rigsy...the entire hiding of Gallifrey...total blank?

I also find it hard to believe that, for all the time Clara spent on the TARDIS, that there would be no visual record of her preserved there.

cheers,

Gabe

[YingJanshi]

I hate to bring the argument up, but actually, according to the Master, at least in the TV episode*, the Valeyard was composed of his darker side, sometime between his Twelfth and final incarnation.  I realize, of course, that 10.2 was technically incarnation 12, but still, even with that, we're along ways off from "final incarnation."

*Of course, the novelization does say, "12th and 13th regeneration."  Either way, there's always the possibility that the Metacrisis Doctor becomes the Valeyard.  Just my 2 cents. :)

EDIT:  May as well throw the link up for proof.  Make of it as you will.

Well, technically Smith was his final regeneration. Capaldi is the first incarnation of his second regeneration cycle that the Time Lord's granted him on Trenzalore.

There's always the possiblity the Master lied about who the Valeyard was...though I do like the idea about the Metacrisis Doctor: he couldn't regenerate.

[Ruger]

I also find it hard to believe that, for all the time Clara spent on the TARDIS, that there would be no visual record of her preserved there.

cheers,

Gabe

The TARDIS herself may have hidden all such things from the Doctor...

Ruger

[gyedid]

There's always the possiblity the Master lied about who the Valeyard was...though I do like the idea about the Metacrisis Doctor: he couldn't regenerate.

And he already showed a tendency towards solving things with violence.  He would need something to push him over the edge...like, say, if Rose were somehow no longer available...(and he's got to get out of that parallel universe somehow)

cheers,

Gabe

[YingJanshi]

And he already showed a tendency towards solving things with violence.  He would need something to push him over the edge...like, say, if Rose were somehow no longer available...(and he's got to get out of that parallel universe somehow)

cheers,

Gabe

But there's still the question of how he got a new body for his appearance at the Doctor's trial...

[ClarkeMarek]

But there's still the question of how he got a new body for his appearance at the Doctor's trial...

1)  Perhaps he pulled the same stunt the Master pulled when he went from "Crispy" to Ainley/morphant to Roberts.

2)  Or perhaps they gave him enough regeneration energy to pull off one regeneration, and held the Doctor's regenerations over his head as a reward.

3)  Then again, it would be the first case of a retroactive one of these. :o :)  (Meant as sarcasm, of course.)

[gyedid]

It's 1814.  How the heck do you manage to chain a kilometre-long sea serpent to the bottom of the Thames to start with???  That's my biggest question about the whole premise of "Thin Ice".


cheers, Gabe

[Luciora]

Wibbley wobbly timey wimey?

It's 1814.  How the heck do you manage to chain a kilometre-long sea serpent to the bottom of the Thames to start with???  That's my biggest question about the whole premise of "Thin Ice".


cheers, Gabe

[Jaim Magnus]

It's 1814.  How the heck do you manage to chain a kilometre-long sea serpent to the bottom of the Thames to start with???  That's my biggest question about the whole premise of "Thin Ice".


cheers, Gabe

Don't think on it too hard. You'll unravel the fabric of existence.

Wibbley wobbly timey wimey?

No. Just, no.

[ClarkeMarek]

It's 1814.  How the heck do you manage to chain a kilometre-long sea serpent to the bottom of the Thames to start with???  That's my biggest question about the whole premise of "Thin Ice".


cheers, Gabe

Scuba suit, alien technology, it's a TV show, don't dwell on it, Captain Ja....oh, right. :P

[ClarkeMarek]

Just got through watching a recording of the episode.

Damn, those where some hungry termites. :o Still, even though I figured that something in that house was alive, I enjoyed it.  It's taken me a while to finally enjoy the series. :)  Oh, if that ain't the Master/Missy in there, it's someone/something familiar.  Previous incarnation, Valeyard, Who knows?

btw, how'd they figure out the combination, and when the hell did they sneak in the piano.  And whatever/Whoever's in there, good taste in music.  Ein Kleine Nactmusic :)

EDIT:  And that was a twist.  9 was right about mothers.  And for once, everybody lives!  Well, almost.

[Ruger]

Oh, if that ain't the Master/Missy in there, it's someone/something familiar.  Previous incarnation, Valeyard, Who knows?

They have done some heavy hinting already that whatever is in there, it probably has something to do with Susan Foreman, the Doctor's granddaughter...between her picture on his desk in the first episode of the season, and Bill continually calling the Doctor grandfather in last night's episode...it probably is Missy, but I'm almost willing to bet that Susan ties into this somehow...

Or maybe Bill is a mindwiped and regenerated Susan...

Ruger

[ClarkeMarek]

Whatever is in there is living in its own little Romper Room, given the music. ;)

[YingJanshi]

I've just had a thought...what if we're approaching the vault from the wrong angle? What if the vault doesn't contain another person? What if it holding the Doctor? Specifically his next incarnation? What if, for whatever reason, he's holding it off? We know from the 4th's change to the 5th that each Time Lord's incarnations have...well, not exactly an independence, but, well can bump into, or permeate the previous incarnation before the actual regeneration.

And the way he was evasive about it to Bill...makes it seem like he knows it's approaching...

[gyedid]

Whatever is in there is living in its own little Romper Room, given the music. ;)

Considering how the music changed when the Doctor mentioned the story with alien bugs eating young people, I'd bet that yeah, it's probably the Master/Missy.

As for the Bill actually being a regenerated Susan...no mention of a fob watch so far...

Apparently we won't have to wait much longer for what's in the vault to emerge, it'll be in episode 6.  The Doctor really hasn't been very nice to Nardole (limited screen time or not); I'm expecting that Nardole will betray him and let whoever it is out.


cheers,

Gabe

[ClarkeMarek]

Funny thing is, in one of the groups I belong to, it gets brought up to the point where this  picture was put up.  Tongue in cheek, the admin didn't mind, but I thought it was hilarious. :D

[roosterboy]

Considering this is Steven Moffet's Doctor Who we're talking about, whoever or whatever is within the vault will end up being simultaneously the coolest thing possible and also the dumbest thing possible.

[YingJanshi]

I think it is pretty safe to say that it is Missy.

Haven't been much discussion of it, but I think "Knock, Knock" was the best episode of the season though. Largely due to David Suchet: his performance was brilliant. And only gets better with subsequent viewings. He pretty much carried that episode completely on his own performance.

[Lorcan Nagle]

I think it is pretty safe to say that it is Missy.

If not her, then John Simm as the Master or David Bradley as the First Doctor.

[ClarkeMarek]

:o  Poor Doctor!!!!  Blinded!!!!  Well, I mean, he did save Bill, and convinced the space station that everybody dying wouldn't be profitable, but damn, the feels!!!!

[Jaim Magnus]

:o  Poor Doctor!!!!  Blinded!!!!  Well, I mean, he did save Bill, and convinced the space station that everybody dying wouldn't be profitable, but damn, the feels!!!!

Didn't really land for me.

[gyedid]

Is this actually going to be permanent, until the end of the season???

cheers,

Gabe

[ClarkeMarek]

Is this actually going to be permanent, until the end of the season???

cheers,

Gabe

Who knows?  There is speculation that the regeneration scene that's been going around in the promos may have been done with the intent of curing him.  Then again, it's probably a red herring.

[YingJanshi]

Who knows?  There is speculation that the regeneration scene that's been going around in the promos may have been done with the intent of curing him.  Then again, it's probably a red herring.

Dude, don't get my hopes up about Capaldi staying...I can't take it...

[YingJanshi]

Just watched "Oxygen". Brilliant episode! It's sadly rare these days to see the Doctor actually scared. He is always at his best when he has no more options.  Also I hope they don't replace his sonic screwdriver too soon, would be good to go a few stories without his "magic wand". (That's really been a major complaint of mine since the series came back in 2005: the writers rely on it far too much to get the Doctor & Co. out of trouble. It's simply lazy writing.)

I wonder if the events of this episode will in any way change Bill's relationship with the Doctor? Probably not, but it should. "Doctor, I thought you'd left me to die. How can I trust you anymore?" Or something along those lines.

Oh and I was actually surprised Nardole was as good as he was in this one. I've found his character mildly annoying ever since "The Many Husbands of River Song". Maybe he'll actually bring something to the show in the coming episodes.

Oh and one final thing: Missy is back next week!!!

[gyedid]

It was a very good body horror story, but I don't think the basic premise of the episode hung together very well.

If the suits were capable of independent operation, why did they need a human inside at all?

cheers,

Gabe

[Lazarus Jaguar]

Critical decision making ability?

[gyedid]

I would like to ask more questions about that mindwipe.  It seems to me that this would cover everything that happened between "The Snowmen" and "Hell Bent".  So, if the Doctor is confronted with anybody who was involved in those adventures, does that mean he doesn't remember them at all, or anything that occurred?  So things like the Boneless, the Sandmen, Rigsy...the entire hiding of Gallifrey...total blank?

cheers,

Gabe

And Missy!  He shouldn't remember Missy either!

so what's she doing in that vault? How does the Doctor even know who she is?
Clearly there's a lot of stuff that happened off-screen between "Hell Bent" and the start of the current season.

Maybe we'll get comics and audio plays one day...


cheers,

Gabe

[YingJanshi]

Maybe we'll get comics and audio plays one day...
[/spoiler]

I am really, really, really hoping that Capaldi will do at least a series of two of those. The series that David Tennant and Catherine Tate did was awesome!  (Was great hearing them back together.)