Unified Doctor Who thread

[monbvol]

Overall it wasn't bad but I too was a bit disappointed that more Doctors were not involved in more meaningful ways so as a 50th anniversary special it just kind of felt a bit of a let down.

[Darth Nichos]

It is understandable though given the ages of the actors; I will say though that Eccleston should taken part in the special. It would have seemed more right with him in it

Its cool that we saw the Fall of Arcadia even though it was brief

[monbvol]

*nod*

Still could have given them a few more substantial lines at least but yeah it wasn't a bad episode.

I chalk up the inconsistency of The Doctor saying he caused the end of the Time War and turning around to say he put Gallifrey in a time lock and burned it(and I'm pretty sure going back and forth more then once before even The End of Time) to the time line sorting itself out from his changing of his own personal history and the indecision shown in the 50th Anniversary.

[omega2010]

Me? I just like it when the Curator shows up.  :)

The Curator stole what was left of the show.

[ClarkeMarek]

To hell with continuity.  I still liked it!  Now let's see if he finds Gallifrey.

(And for that matter, if his regeneration limit is still tossed out the window.

EDIT:  I'll add that I had to record it off of BBC America, but it was worth it, even if I couldn't see it in 3D like I wanted. :)

[GreenDragon]

Overall it wasn't bad but I too was a bit disappointed that more Doctors were not involved in more meaningful ways so as a 50th anniversary special it just kind of felt a bit of a let down.

I would have liked to see more.  But the fewer, the more they got to do.  If they had added Eccleston, for instance, the show would have needed to be an extra half hour long - in order to fit in more story.  Would have been nice to see him clearly in the Regeneration scene.
As for Eccleston: two things based on this episode.
1) The Zygons invasion was due to fallout from the Time War.  I suspect that the many times the Ninth Doctor shows up in human history - as Rose finds in her first episode - was a continuation of that.  The Doctor was fighting off alien invasions, and setting right the chaos.  He was still doing this when he met Rose.  The Autons were here (in that episode, and the first Pertwee ep) because of the need for a new homeworld weren't they?
2) The Shadow Proclamation may well also be a part of the aftermath, created by Eccleston and the member races, to fill the vacuum caused by the Council's absence.

Also, when the Doctor succeeds, Rassilon is going back into the tomb we first saw him in in the Five Doctors.  His part in creating Gallifrey's greatest criminal ensures that. 

[gyedid]

It seems to me Christopher Eccleston really hasn't wanted anything to do with Doctor Who since leaving after the first season of the reboot.  Anyone else have this impression?  Has he said anything about why?  Looking at the previous actors who have played the Doctor, and how they can never really get away from it, does he feel it's a bit of career suicide?

cheers,

Gabe

[Lorcan Nagle]

Apparently he had a supremely bad experience working on the first filming block of his year.  He made the decision to quit at the end of those few weeks, and notably the director for those episodes hasn't worked on Who since.  IIRC there was one interview where he said this, but there's been a lot of confliting stories from Eccleston and Russel Davies.

There was some level of discussion with Eccleston about coming back, but they couldn't work it out.

[Atlas3060]

Based on what I've heard it pretty much went the way Lorcan Nagle said.
Christopher has been noted saying something like "I don't bathe twice in the same river".
The culture around the show didn't mesh with him and so with those conflicts he left.

I don't think we'll ever get the full picture, but I did love his performance as the 9th.

[I am Belch II]

The episode was the largestc simulcast ever of a tv show. They got in the Guinness Book of World Records for it.

[jimdigris]

This was a truly fun episode.  I wish they could do more like it.
There were obvious conflicts with the "End of Time" episode.  In EoT, Gallifrey is locked inside a parallel dimension with Daleks and several other scary bad guys.  In this episode, Gallifrey is all by itself.  Additionally, David Tennant's doctor knew in previous episodes that he locked Gallifrey away, but the two older doctors said that Gallifrey was "burned".  Why would they say that?

Also, when the Doctor succeeds, Rassilon is going back into the tomb we first saw him in in the Five Doctors. 

I missed that episode.  Could you elaborate?

[jimdigris]

We're not in the new season yet.  This was the pre-season appetizer. :P

[monbvol]

Well there was one line that was certainly a problem.  When 13 Doctors showed up.  Tennent got 2 regenerations so there should have only been 12.

[Stormlion1]

Not sure if the War Doctor can be considered a regeneration. The cause of his becoming the War Doctor was an outside influence, a potion that changed him. It could be considered a makeover and resuscitation more than a regeneration. Then again coming back as a old man might not be the best choice to fight a war in.
I really like it when the younger Doctors got called on the 'waving the arms' about. I thought that was hilarious, and making fun of 'Timey-Wimey' cracked me up.

[Fatebringer]

What he said....

And...did Moffet completely forget "The End of Time"? Because...I know Doctor Who and continuity aren't really on speaking terms but still...that's pretty huge...

My called it! She said, you know there are going to be people who bring this up :P

[YingJanshi]

Still have the Christmas special left to go and then the new season with Peter Capaldi will start sometime next year. Spring most likely. Anyone know if it is going to be another split season? I really hope not...  :(

[Darth Nichos]

Probably; its what they have done in the past

I like that they set up the plot of the new series as well as the possible return of the Time Lords. I am just curious to how Peter will play the Doctor since every actor has had his own unique way of doing it.

[YingJanshi]

The only way I can see them bringing back the Time Lords is if they completely ignore "The End of Time". And it appears Moffet is already doing so...

[Øystein]

I think Peter will have a little more serious Doctor, a doctor now with a clearly defined goal (find Gallifrey) and no longer saddled with the baggage of thinking he was the worst war criminal in the universe.
They pretty much said so in the 50th, the Doctor had lost himself after the Time War and what he though he had done, and it is just now that he has managed to unravel/sort himself out.

[Øystein]

The only way I can see them bringing back the Time Lords is if they completely ignore "The End of Time". And it appears Moffet is already doing so...

I think Moffet is a lot smarter than you give him credit for, and has that sorted out long ago.
We never saw what the High Council did during all of this, we only saw the High Command (the military leaders). I'm fairly sure the whole reason the Doctors dealt with the High Command was due to the actions the High Council tried to make (and the High Council had locked themselves away as mentioned at the very start).

[YingJanshi]

I think Peter will have a little more serious Doctor, a doctor now with a clearly defined goal (find Gallifrey) and no longer saddled with the baggage of thinking he was the worst war criminal in the universe.
They pretty much said so in the 50th, the Doctor had lost himself after the Time War and what he though he had done, and it is just now that he has managed to unravel/sort himself out.

I'm actually rather excited (Moffet aside) about having an older Doctor. Maybe we can get back to the original Doctor/Companion dynamic of Professor/Pupil. Its why my favorite sets are Doctor-Barbara-Ian-Susan, Doctor-Jamie-Zoe and Doctor-Ace. Instead of the Doctor/Companion Love story.... :P

[YingJanshi]

I think Moffet is a lot smarter than you give him credit for, and has that sorted out long ago.
We never saw what the High Council did during all of this, we only saw the High Command (the military leaders). I'm fairly sure the whole reason the Doctors dealt with the High Command was due to the actions the High Council tried to make (and the High Council had locked themselves away as mentioned at the very start).

Um, actually we did see the High Council in "The End of Time". And they did know what the Doctor was planning to do with the Moment. That's the whole reason the Lord President/Rassilon did what he did to the Master. They specifically talk about the Doctor possessing the Moment and his planning on using it to lock the Time War.

Also was that the High Command in "Day of the Doctor" or only the command in charge of defending Arcadia?

[Øystein]

Um, actually we did see the High Council in "The End of Time". And they did know what the Doctor was planning to do with the Moment. That's the whole reason the Lord President/Rassilon did what he did to the Master. They specifically talk about the Doctor possessing the Moment and his planning on using it to lock the Time War.

Also was that the High Command in "Day of the Doctor" or only the command in charge of defending Arcadia?

No, that was the High Command. Go rewatch it and pay attention to what they say during their first appearance. It's very clear that the High Council (the civilian leadership) has "gone mad and locked itself away". Which left the General in charge. Arcadia is falling when we enter the episode (which is why the soldier radios in "Arcadia has fallen"), and the military leaders we see are in the capital.

[YingJanshi]

Actually You can still actually have 'The End of Time' happen because the central high command that the doctors were addressing in that episode were cut off from the Council...  our lord president Tim... who had clearly gone nuts.   So, to the council, the doctor was indeed going to end Gallifrey...  which in a way, he did.  It does end in fire.    The planet is still in a form of time lock, as was demonstrated in the episode by using the paintings.   And still leaves the room for the beating drums that drove the Master mad.   It's not perfect but it still works.  All it required was Lord President Timothy and the insane time lords on his side from not realizing what was going on... which is easily understandable if you consider the devastation of Arcadia and the planetary bombardment and then use that as a standard measure on which to base what was happening across the planet.

Okay, fair enough. But to me the biggest problem with the two now is that up till this point it been specifically stated that the entire war was time locked (see "The Stolen Planet/Journey's End"). So the biggest threat in "The End of Time" was not just the return of the crazy Time Lords, but of everything in the Time War spilling back into the universe.
So if the new "quest" is the return of Gallifrey, how are they going to reconcile that?

[YingJanshi]

No, that was the High Command. Go rewatch it and pay attention to what they say during their first appearance. It's very clear that the High Council (the civilian leadership) has "gone mad and locked itself away". Which left the General in charge. Arcadia is falling when we enter the episode (which is why the soldier radios in "Arcadia has fallen"), and the military leaders we see are in the capital.

Okay I missed that. Thank you.
So it would appear that the scenes with the High Command are concurrent with the scenes with the High Council from "The End of Time". Okay makes since.
One last question for you. From references in "The Stolen Planet/Journey's End" and "The End of Time" it wasn't just Gallifrey that was locked away but the entirety of the Time War. So indeed the biggest threat in "The End of Time" wasn't just the return of the crazy Time Lords but that all of the horrors of the Time War would spill back into the universe? How do you think they'll reconcile that?

[Øystein]

No clue, but I am giving Moffat the benefit of the doubt. He started planning the 50th at least 3 years ago (it's mentioned in an interview with Tennant about coming back for the 50th), so I'll believe he has some kind of idea sketched out about it.

[Wrangler]

Not sure if the War Doctor can be considered a regeneration. The cause of his becoming the War Doctor was an outside influence, a potion that changed him. It could be considered a makeover and resuscitation more than a regeneration. Then again coming back as a old man might not be the best choice to fight a war in.
I really like it when the younger Doctors got called on the 'waving the arms' about. I thought that was hilarious, and making fun of 'Timey-Wimey' cracked me up.

If you watch the prequel to the Day of the Doctor (Night of the Doctor) on Youtube, you'll find that That the War Doctor was young when the things got started in the time war.

[Lazarus Jaguar]

Was it the Moment that locked the Time War?  or some other effect?  I thought it was something else and the use of the Moment was part of what was locked.

But yeah, the way Moffat ended it it's like he's trying to veto the whole of the show's history set down by the Davies era.  one of the reasons I don't like his stories, he's too much of a fan and is trying to hard to make the Doctor the pure hero he thinks of him as.

though, this could work for more adventure later.  Like when the Doctor finds and rescues Gallifrey, and oops, that releases Rassilon again to and end Time again

[Ruger]

It is understandable though given the ages of the actors; I will say though that Eccleston should taken part in the special. It would have seemed more right with him in it

They offered Eccleston a chance to appear, but he declined from what I understand...maybe he'll come to regret it as much as Tom Baker did missing out on "The Five Doctors"...

If you watch the prequel to the Day of the Doctor (Night of the Doctor) on Youtube, you'll find that That the War Doctor was young when the things got started in the time war.

Which is one of the reasons why his line at the end about his body is "wearing a bit thin" is so great...not only pays homage to Hartnell's end, but gives us two Doctors who actually made it to the end of their natural life in a particular body

This was a GREAT episode to me...so many things honoring previous works, from the opening being taken directly from "An Unearthly Child", to the surprise cameo at the end (and, I have to say...my first thing on hearing the voice, before even seeing the face was uttering in an unbelieving tone "TOM?!?!?!?!?!?!?"....truly a great thing...he may have missed the 20th anniversary, but he made sure he didn't miss the 50th...)...If I had been falling asleep, I would have watched it the third time it came on last night too, and not just the first two times...

Loved the interaction between all three Doctors...

Ruger

[Drewbacca]

Well, nothing says the time loch is not still there, in fact they point out that the moment allowed 11 and 12 to get to 9 in the first place. So....