Unified Doctor Who thread

[monbvol]

Well you have to remember that wasn't actually the Doctor in that scene and he probably did arrange that effect for the precise reason of that was what everyone expected, especially since no one really seems to know for sure how many regenerations a Time Lord actually has or how many the Doctor had actually gone through by then.

[ANS Kamas P81]

So is anyone disappointed that we didn't get a female Doctor this time, and...if you were to have one, who would you cast?  Don't go big-name, pick someone from British TV who could put gravity in the role as well as the level of magician's-patter playfulness, that could reasonably be expected to actually be able to fill the role.  (this is my Don't Pick Dame Judi Dench rule)

[Wrangler]

I am not disappointed.  Though i think it would be interesting, but i think it be weird at the same time. 

If it was his daughter, then i could dig it.  Not man himself, he's been associated as male since the character's creation.  It may not jive with some fans for him some how completely changing his personality that drastically.

[monbvol]

With my limited knowledge of UK actresses I'd have to go with the actress who played Tennant's partner from Broadchurch.  Can't remember her name now and been called to dinner so I can't even look it up.  :P

[Gleep]

Well you have to remember that wasn't actually the Doctor in that scene and he probably did arrange that effect for the precise reason of that was what everyone expected, especially since no one really seems to know for sure how many regenerations a Time Lord actually has or how many the Doctor had actually gone through by then.

As I remember it, time lords are supposed to only have 12 regens (I know, already stated, repetitive, and broken by the Master).
The thing that I wondered about was, if Gallyfrey is sealed away in the time war, and the regens are caused by timelord-tech, and the regens came from Gallifrey, that meant that the Eccleston doctor shouldn't have happened.
The "Night of the Doctor" mini ep seems to have resolved that, since the sisters of kaan had "perfected" regeneration.
So the 12 regen limit was more a bureaucratic limit, than an actual physical one, and we now have...

DOCTORS FOREVER!!!

(yeayh!).

[Wrangler]

Question comes to.  Was this change in the timeline, or was this something that had happen and no one know how it really came down?

[Stormlion1]

Timelords have life expectancy too, and nothing lives forever. I have a feeling that in comparison to the Doctor most Gallifrians live long, long lives maxing out each life before regenerating. In comparison the Doctor has lived a short but eventful life.

[Lazarus Jaguar]

Good.  Long uneventful lives are boring.

[GreenDragon]

So is anyone disappointed that we didn't get a female Doctor this time, and...if you were to have one, who would you cast?  Don't go big-name, pick someone from British TV who could put gravity in the role as well as the level of magician's-patter playfulness, that could reasonably be expected to actually be able to fill the role.  (this is my Don't Pick Dame Judi Dench rule)

Joanna Lumley played the Doctor in Curse of Fatal Death.  At the end, she was going to learn why he calls himself "the Master".

[Lore]

I think Peter will have a little more serious Doctor, a doctor now with a clearly defined goal (find Gallifrey) and no longer saddled with the baggage of thinking he was the worst war criminal in the universe.
They pretty much said so in the 50th, the Doctor had lost himself after the Time War and what he though he had done, and it is just now that he has managed to unravel/sort himself out.

Moffat confirmed in a interview earlier today that the Capaldi-Doctor will be a "snarling beast." We won't be seeing the pleasant, playfully young Doctor we've all been used to for the last two incarnations, I suspect.

My personal hope... we'll return to something of a Doctor who channels the haughty superiority of the First, while combining it with the assumed arrogance of the Sixth. Mixed up with whatever delightful little eccentricities Capaldi brings to the role.

[Lore]

Question comes to.  Was this change in the timeline, or was this something that had happen and no one know how it really came down?

I don't think it's going to be as complicated as all of that.

Really, I see Moffat still playing the history of the Doctor as it was... with just a freer hand as to what can be explored as we head into the new adventures with the Capaldi-Doctor. The Doctor's history remains intact. It's just more open to exploitation and re-evaluation, now, than it was in the past and pre-The Day of the Doctor period.

[DoctorMonkey]

Has anyone bp caught any of the mini-episodes on YouTube and things?


So far I've only found one (Clara and the TARDIS) and its great... If a little adult at moments for a "kids show"

[YingJanshi]

I have a question: how do we know the events of "The Day of the Doctor" actually happened, that it wasn't just The Moment/Bad Wolf messing with the War Doctor's head?

I mean its supposed to be the most advanced weapon in the Time Lords arsenal. One that even develops a consience. One that can also see both past and future (re: picking the form of Rose). Maybe it/she was simply trying to convince the War Doctor not to use it.
I mean we don't get any resolution to the Zygons...

[Lore]

I have a question: how do we know the events of "The Day of the Doctor" actually happened, that it wasn't just The Moment/Bad Wolf messing with the War Doctor's head?

I mean its supposed to be the most advanced weapon in the Time Lords arsenal. One that even develops a consience. One that can also see both past and future (re: picking the form of Rose). Maybe it/she was simply trying to convince the War Doctor not to use it.
I mean we don't get any resolution to the Zygons...

Well, Moffat has repeatedly said that "The Day of the Doctor" was a game-changer for Doctor Who.

I don't see anything being considered so important to the future of the show also then being something that didn't actually happen. Besides, the Doctors "know" about the events after the Moment has been left behind. And we have the Curator's take on what happened as well. "Gallifrey Falls No More" is now part of the Doctor's history. It happened.

The Moment selecting the form of Bad Wolf Rose, I think, was just another way of providing the War Doctor with a glimpse of his post-Time War future.

[Wrangler]

I wonder if they'll ever get into the events the War Doctor got into.  I think its interesting, that he was a young man when he regenerated.  He had many decades of stories to go through.   The actor playing young version of the 8th Doctor/War Doctor.

[GreenDragon]

I wonder if they'll ever get into the events the War Doctor got into.  I think its interesting, that he was a young man when he regenerated.  He had many decades of stories to go through.   The actor playing young version of the 9th Doctor/War Doctor.

War Doctor/Hurt was the Ninth.  McGann was 8.

[I am Belch II]

So War Doctor was in between 8 and 9, and was depressed because the homeworld fell. The 9th Doctor was depressed and sad for a good reason. Kinda explains something's.

[Lore]

So War Doctor was in between 8 and 9, and was depressed because the homeworld fell. The 9th Doctor was depressed and sad for a good reason. Kinda explains something's.

It's been regularly affirmed by both showrunners [Davies and Moffat] that the Doctors "after" the Time War -- especially Eccleston's Doctor -- suffered from PTSD, and, most especially, a kind of survivor's guilt.

Which was particularly poignant in "The Day of the Doctor" since we now know that Tennant's Doctor was the Doctor Who Regrets and Smith's Doctor was/is the Doctor Who Forgets. Also notable psychological facets for survivors of terrible conflicts.

[Øystein]

It's been regularly affirmed by both showrunners [Davies and Moffat] that the Doctors "after" the Time War -- especially Eccleston's Doctor -- suffered from PTSD, and, most especially, a kind of survivor's guilt.

Which was particularly poignant in "The Day of the Doctor" since we now know that Tennant's Doctor was the Doctor Who Regrets and Smith's Doctor was/is the Doctor Who Forgets. Also notable psychological facets for survivors of terrible conflicts.

Makes you wonder what Eccleston's doctor was.

[GreenDragon]

The one that hated. 

Dalek: You would have made a good Dalek.

That was the moment he realized what he was becoming.  Hence when he next confronts the Daleks, he chooses the "mouse" option rather than the "man" option.

[Lore]

Makes you wonder what Eccleston's doctor was.

I think GreenDragon's pretty close to the mark here. Eccleston's Doctor was carrying a great deal of hatred toward the Daleks. And hatred at himself, perhaps, too, for what both the Daleks and the Time Lords "made" him do.

It wasn't until Tennant's Doctor that the regret of his actions in the Time War started setting in.

That's how I see it... at least.

[GreenDragon]

Rose Tyler can not be discounted in this either.  Eccleston had traveled throughout our history for a considerable period of time - based on images of him Rose found in her research.  As I noted earlier, I suspect this was about cleaning up the aftermath of the Time War - things like the Zygons and the Autons.

But in all that time, and perhaps throughout the entire Time War, the Doctor had been alone.  Rose was his first Companion in centuries.  Having her along to share his adventures, and to give him a reason to visit more pleasant places, allowed him to set aside the pain, guilt, and sorrow, and live again.

Tennant, "her Doctor", was shaped by her influence during his previous life.  Much like Smith was shaped by his encounter with young Amelia.

[mikecj]

Makes you wonder what Eccleston's doctor was.

The scarred survivor.  The only survivor (or so he thought until he met that Dalek)

[Stormlion1]

Makes you wonder how much hatred for himself the Doctor is carrying around. He did once have the opportunity to strangle the Daleks in the cradle and decided not to. Opting instead to burying them for a thousand years.

[Maskerade]

Makes you wonder how much hatred for himself the Doctor is carrying around. He did once have the opportunity to strangle the Daleks in the cradle and decided not to. Opting instead to burying them for a thousand years.

Well, to be fair a) it is a TV show, and it'd be like Batman bumping off the joker- suddenly no more iconic bad guy to play foil to the hero, and the series falters and b) the doctor is very, very old- there may be reasons as yet unexplored that he doesn't jsut destroy them once and for all (though given their history, they'd likely find a way around that minor inconvenience).
I've just had a thought: If the doctor goes back in time and changes his own history (as may or may not have happened in the special), does that not automatically mean that the new history is canon because all of the stuff the Doctor did since had to happen anyway to get to where he is now. Basically what I'm saying is does it matter if the doctor changes the past because nothing in the present will change.
Off-topic for a second, a rather interesting thought occured the other day: If someone went back in time and changed the past, at the point that they did so the future (to them) would be changed too, but someone alive in that future (such as us) wouldn't notice a change, because at the moment the past changes, so does our memory of it.

[Atlas3060]

Makes you wonder what Eccleston's doctor was.

Eccleston Doctor: The one who laments
Tennant Doctor: The one who regrets
Smith Doctor: The one who forgets

At least that's how I'll refer to them in my mind.

[ClarkeMarek]

Eccleston Doctor: The one who laments
Tennant Doctor: The one who regrets
Smith Doctor: The one who forgets

At least that's how I'll refer to them in my mind.

Sounds about right. 

I've just had a thought: If the doctor goes back in time and changes his own history (as may or may not have happened in the special), does that not automatically mean that the new history is canon because all of the stuff the Doctor did since had to happen anyway to get to where he is now. Basically what I'm saying is does it matter if the doctor changes the past because nothing in the present will change.

Not sure.  Way I figure it, though, even after changing his own history and pulling the plan off the way he did, he's still going to see himself as the one that killed the Time Lords and the Daleks simply because he doesn't know if his plan is going to work or not.  Even if he did send Gallifrey into a pocket universe and used the ensuing confusion to let the Daleks wipe themselves off into oblivion, it was still a risky plan because if his calculations were off, he could've wiped Gallifrey and/or the Time Lords out of existence accidently.

(And that would be reason enough to regret ever activating the Moment.  Just my 2 cents, feel free to correct me.)

EDIT:  And I totally forgot that 10 and War basically wouldn't remember a lot of the incident anyways, so it might or might not be a moot point. :p

[mikecj]

So where is the Moment now?  Its not on Gallifrey...

[Wrangler]

So where is the Moment now?  Its not on Gallifrey...

If I were the Doctor.  I'd either have forgotten it on the world he left it. Or was smart brought with him on the Tardis.

[Lore]

So where is the Moment now?  Its not on Gallifrey...

Recalling that the Moment is in fact sentient, then I'd probably hazard a guess and say that it's wherever it "wants/needs" to be.

Considering how well it manipulated the Doctor/s, it shouldn't be a problem for the Moment to orchestrate itself to some hidden or unknown location.

...

Until it's needed again.